Everton reject Man Utd bid for Baines

Cheeky twat!!!

Dear Mr Moyes,

He leaves this club there's no Fellaini clause with him, so it will be for a highest bidder fortune after he has requested a transfer!!!

Personally, I believe this story is bullshit.

Why did we only get 2 mill for Yakubu, a nominal fee for Saha, why did Gueye go for practically nothing? Rooney's fee was low considering what we were selling. If Henderson was 20 million why did Rodwell go for 12 plus add ons? Why did Bilyaletdinov go for the same price as Charlie Adam?

I think we undersell our fringe players due to a combination of our well known desperation and the pitiful values that the papers attach to them that everyone starts to believe. Its as though if you play for Liverpool or Tottenham you get an extra million or two on your price. If Baines or Fellaini was playing for either of these two do you really think the respecctive fees would be 12 million and 22 million? I know one is a release clause but they are stupid prices. If Baines is sold for that reported figure it will be the most disappointing transfer I have ever witnessed at Everton. I just hope its not true.

What a cunt Moyes is.

Be a disaster for us if he does go, our best player by a mile.

Oi Kenwright. No! Even if the ginger one does make you weak at the knees.

In any case, how can Moyes be making any bids for Everton players? He's still being paid as our manager.

What's he offering for Ronaldo, by the way, 3 million plus peanut vouchers?

'David Ngog went for more than Pienaar did a fee matched by the sale of the mighty jay Spearing. Indeed Spurs burnt us by selling Pienaar back at a greater price despite the fact he barley played for htem, how could his value have gone up?'

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What?

Because we sold him when he had a matter of months left on his contract. We bought him back with years left on his Spurs contract. The only person to blame for that debacle is Pienaar for not signing a new contract with us.

I sincerely hope Baines stays. £10-12million is a travesty. If this was a foreign left back then we'd be talking £20+million. He's in the top 3 full backs in the world for christs sake.

I love the way the media are quite happy to tout Bale (who's had one great season) for £85million yet little Everton's best player is £15million at most.

I would quite happily see a £25million bid rejected by the club...however that's just not going to happen. I can even see Baines saying he doesn't want to leave, but the board forcing him out for the money.

Paraphrased

"Leighton Baines is around 29-30 and Everton should accept £15million"

90% of our ex-pros in the media are fucking idiots.

Did something happen to Kevin Ratcliffe to make him so fuckin miserable and bitter? The bloke always seems to be on a downer.

And as someone else pointed out, we're still paying Moyes' wages for the next few days!

BK replaces receiver and speed dials RM "Alo Amigo - guess what I've managed to raise the cash to buy Kone, Alcaraz and some other bloke from Wigan, all for less wages than that greedy bugger Baines wanted - oh it's so good to have a special relationship with the Everton Manager - see you next week cheers Davy ...err...Roberto"

It's rumoured that Baines will be offered a new contract shortly. If he rejects it, then it's sell sell sell for me. Great player, but he is not bigger than EFC.

Gareth Bale is 23, and just won PFA Young Player of the Year, Players player of the year, FWA Player of the year, and has 3 years to run on a 120,000 a week contract. It is a very different case, no?

He is worth far more than £15m to us, so I'd keep. If he were 3 years younger he'd be £25m+, but he isn't.

I'm afraid ratcliffe knows what he is talking about.

By the way, anyone who is an England international, one of the best left-backs in the world and a target for Bayern Munich is worth a lot more than £15 million in the current market.

What did Moyes say when he was manager. "Everton may have to sell, but it won't be cheaply".

Kenwright needs to be strong here and tell him to do one. Get the lad on a long term contact to protect the investment.

Al, I think Roberto is all too aware of our transfer policy. The last eleven years is ample evidence. Also, I do honestly think he would have known what money was around as part of any negotiations into him joining us. The guy is used to Dave Whelan, I don't think Bill will get to pull a fast one on him.

What I'm more worried about at the moment is the rumour of Rooney going to Arsenal. If this is true, that could stop them signing Felliani. Whether we like it or not, we need to sell to get a decent transfer fund in for quality players. I would rather sell Felliani than Baines as they are the only two cash cows we have.

Stingy bastard.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Give him a new 5 year contract, break the rules, just keep him! FUCK OFF MOYES!

Taking the piss for one of the best left backs in the world.

He can have hibbo.....maybe.

I find it odd people think that Baines next contract is going to be his last. I suspect he'll be capable of playing at the top level for another 7 or 8 years.

'I don't think we should sell - but I think its fair that his value is around the £15m mark at his age - because his next contract will likely be his last (given 4 years+) and there will be next to nothing re-sale value after that time for the next club. Thats the way it works.
He is worth far more than £15m to us, so I'd keep. If he were 3 years younger he'd be £25m+, but he isn't.

I'm afraid Ratcliffe knows what he is talking about'

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Ratcliffe is saying we should sell for £15million.

You and I are saying we should keep him if offered £15million.

So how does Ratcliffe, in your opinion, know what he's talking about, yet completely contradict your own opinion?

Good luck explaining that one.

Dan Brierley

Yes, I'm not suggesting Bale and Baines should be valued the same. I am merely saying that there isn't £70million between them.

I've said it before - Martinez should offer Baines £75k p/w and explain to him exactly how crucial he is to our style of play. Set piece taker, major attacking outlet and first name on the team sheet EVERY week. If Baines wants to go after being told that then fair enough. Shake the man's hand and let him go. I sincerely hope he signs a new deal with us.

Of course, if you'd prefer to wait till the photo of him holding a Man U scarf is on the back of the Mirror, that's ok too.

On a side note, it's funny how these last few weeks has seen Moyes plastered all over the back pages, bidding for X, Y and Z. Probably more coverage than the entire time of his Everton tenure.

Exactly the same things the phony was saying about Rooney 9 years ago so the player rather than BK himself will get the shit when the player is sacrificed.

He's still a paid employee right now and has the cheek blatantly taking the piss with his derisory bids?

GTF.

He has shafted us good and proper. His supporters can twist this to a positive if they wish, but we have been paying this deceitful turncoat since he signed for them, for NO WORK whatsoever, and now he is signing one of our players. It's disgusting and it's disgraceful, defend him how you want but he has shafted us.

I told you when he signed that he didn't give a damn about the club, this just reaffirms this. His "I'm now working for two clubs from next week, ha ha ha" just sickened me, and only a circus like Everton would allow a man to collect a month's wages for no work, the situation is absolutely, absurdly laughable in every way.

People on here saying, "who cares, he's gone, move on", how the hell can we? He, until July 1st, is still OUR manager, he officially leaves on Monday.

So, for a man who supposedly loves the club, cares about the club,wishes it well, blah blah, has raided our coaching staff, shafted us into a month's wages for nothing, and now signing a player he still technically works with. It's just deceitfulness in every single respect, and of course our idiotic chairman has fallen for it.

What we should have done is that as soon as it was announced, we should have just let him go there and then, but no, we are in this joke of a situation.

He is just a snake. Good riddence David, hopefully Utd will expose you as the real bottling, tactically inept failure you really were.

One thing that Martinez has won me over with is his dignity and respect, which our manager supposedly had in bundles.

Not only would his absence have a massive effect on the style we play, but it would send a negative message to other players and also other teams would come along for more players and then you have an unsettled team and you're doing yourself no favours before the season has even started.

Mark my words, Mirallas and Coleman will both play for Man Utd if Moyes keeps his job; I just feel he will let them have another season or two and he'll take them.

Anyway, his decency and dignity was dripping away in the manner in which he jumped ship; there is no way on this earth that he knew the Man-U job was landing in his lap on say March-9 (to pluck a random date out of the air).

My Moyes-ometer went up at the last home game for a brief while, but has dropped ever since.

This Baines bid is nothing less than an insult and to cap it all we are still paying his wages for a few more days.

Bastard.

A fucking insult, theft, whatever ......

Moyes is taking the piss out of his present/former employer but then it springs to mind that he knows Teary Billy's limitations and weak spots better than anyone else.

Nor do I trust Luvvy-chops not to sell: in other words not for sale at any price is the equivalent of searching 24/7 or we are currently looking into .....

Ginger is treating us today with the same sort of contempt and crafty guile shown my Sparky a few years back.

He's in Sky-land now and will act in the appropriate manner.

My Moyes-ometer is barely ticking over the red zone.

If he steals Baines - and Luvvy-chops caves in as his current employee Ginger thinks he will - then I will lose all respect
for Moyes. And I find myself, against my will, joining the 'I
hope he fails brigade', or IHHFB for short.

Hey let's call it the dagger cut-and-thrust of the lofty heights of Sky-land shall we?

Nope, not me for at any rate.

Time to step up to the plate Luvvy-chops and erm, cough,
stick to your words and dig in your heels.

Moyes is doing his job oh shit I forgot it's still June....

Moyes, please get lost, you have a big pot of dough to pluck another LB from most other teams in Europe. Take a look around and be a man of your word.

12 mill offer for Baines a standing ovation while tapping the lad up and drawing wages out the club at the same time.

What a surprise? ...... NOT!!!!

Baines sounded pretty enthusiastic about playing under RM so hopefully he will stay. I know who I would rather play under!

Let's not be silly: let's talk Rooney... then we will negotiate.

IH[ope]H[e]F[ails]B[ridage]

Ha that was nice coincidence Patrick (996). That was truly
one of the worst things I have seen at The Old Lady for a
long long while. But ex-Skip Pip was first rate at putting
his head in his hands. A fine art in his hands these last
three years or so.

Erm, no he's not. He is Man U manager/will be in 4 days depending on what you believe. As such, his only concern now is Man U, just as ours is only Everton. All the talk of agreements not to come in for our players was simply only ever just that 'talk'

The price Man U want to pay for Baines may well be in excess of £12m but it is called negotiating and in a negotiation the job of the buyer is to purchase someone at the lowest price they can get it for. Everton's job, should the club decide to sell or Baines decide that he wants to go, is to get the top price they can.

Every player has a price and losing Baines would be a big blow but one that we can survive - every player leaves at some point. The opening offer however is bang out of order and Moyes seems to be using his knowledge of how skint we are to try to get him at a ridiculously low price. If Baines had been playing for say Chelsea or Arsenal, the price offered would be nearer 20m!

The club should simply tell Man u to do one with such a derisory offer. If they are serious then something in the line of 15m + Hernandez or 20m cash - up front should be the starting point!

God I hope we stuff them when the turn up at GP!

He also claimed "we do things with class and dignity at Everton" ... I guess that doesn't apply at United then eh!

Given the deluded rubbish you constantly post, I don't think you are in any position to dismiss anyone as an idiot.

BTW, that post was another load of nonsense from start to finish.

12m for Baines is taking the piss and also the bid seems to have been tactically leaked to the press given that the broadsheets were the first to report on it.

3 guesses for who did the leaking!

Take into account that Bains is the leading "chance creator" in Europe.
An assist is equally as valuable as a goal.

I hope we keep him

Conor (943) hit on it. Moyes knows who he's dealing with and has told the Glazer money folks so.

Maybe we can get 18 million?

Moyes was rightly appalled at City's behaviour because they unsettled the player and Hughes made some comments about "speaking to the people who make the decisions". City tried to treat Everton like shit; Moyes got twenty-odd million for the player.

On the present occasion Moyes has made a straight club-to-club bid, albeit too low, for one of our players. Nothing controversial. We've said "no" and that's where we are.

All this talk about him "stabbing the club in the back" is a pile of embarrassing bollocks.

By the way, I don't want to be hypocritical. Martinez buying Wigan players would be just as sly...

He isn't worth selling unless he puts in a transfer request and then I wouldn't sell him for less than £20 million. Moyes is taking the piss with that bid just like he's been taking the piss getting paid since he took the united job!

If Baines is undersold then it will be the Everton Board's fault.

It's a fact of life that the teams with more cash come in and take our players, just as we do to teams below us. What I can't stand for is a man who I believed to act with dignity and respect not waiting until he is no longer handsomely paid by us to put in what many would consider a derisory offer. (Albeit I'm sure it is David Gill/Edward Woodward who handles that side of it)

Employing him to the end of his contract is proving to be the biggest farce ever.

Only Jordi Alaba comes close to being as good as Baines.

Levy is going to get 85 million for Bale.
Oh to have him doing our negotiating.

Fellaini is the best defensive midfielder we've in had since Reid! Why is everyone on his back and can't wait to sell him?

All you're doing is the the board's dirty work, sell before you buy! Fellaini was more important than Baines last season, just. So love him as much as you do Baines

And why are people still defending Moyes? As if Man Utd haven't sounded out Baines' agent.

Moyes put himself above Everton... you can't blame him... but you don't need to still be defending him either. He's the enemy now and he's unsettling our second-best player, so he's a...... [please insert derogatory remark of your choice].

No doubt we'll learn more next week when we know who is leaving/joining the backroom and we'll get some low key signings to show we're alive in the premiership game.

I was impressed with Kone when I saw him for Wigan but the rumoured fee is a lot - prob too much - for a 29 year old with potential rather than a track record.

I didn't have much time for him when he was the manager — I've got none now!

Oh, I totally agree that it is a totally farcical situation; I just don't blame Moyes for it. Twelve months ago Kenwright should have said to him, "Sign this two-year extension or fuck off". But no, that would be too sensible. Instead Bullshit Bill lets him take his time and this is the result.

Some of the cash they are now offering for Baines should already be in Everton's coffers in the form of compensation for Moyes. I blame Kenwright.

Well, Go and Fuck Yourself, DM! He's NOT FOR SALE!!!

I've also been amazed that no contributor to TW has commented on the revelation by our Chairman that "the previous regime" (Moyes) had no interest in allowing our under 21's to take part in the 'Next Generation' international competition. This has now been remedied for next season by, it would appear, our Chairman!

To summarise, how can a man who was lauded for 'bringing on' young players to the first team have made, and been allowed to make, such a decision to the detriment of our club, yet still retain the adulation he received by both many fans, the media and Man United. Perhaps others can make additions to those that Moyes may take credit for 'bringing through' over 11 years (i.e) Hibbert, Osman, Rodwell and Anichebe ..... Rooney should be omitted as he would have come through even had Dave Basset been our manager!

Obviously I'd rather keep Baines as well, but Oviedo and Garbutt look decent. Could we tempt Luke Shaw?

Couldn't agree more: incompetent, arrogant, in denial. I could accept the arrogance if he was any good. But he isn't any good. He is a buffoon.

Personally I'm still grateful to Moyes for the way he turned the Club around, despite BK and his band of merry men. For me the true test of his integrity will be if he comes back with a second offer after being told he's not for sale nsno

As others have said, it'll come down to what Baines wants to do. Whilst we can hope he wants to stay, we can't fault him if he decides to show some ambition (he should to be honest) but that's when Operation Smear will take full effect, like it did for Arteta, Speed, Rooney and all the other players they've wanted to or had to sell down the years.

Agree with the above comment Levy is some negotiator

We deserve everything we get.

A deadline beating deal on the 31st 'because he wanted to go' want wash this time, and if BK thinks he'll get away with that again he really is deluded nsno

Therefore, I fully expect Baines, Fellaini and Heitinga to be sold. The questions using this model should be how much; when and how much will be re-invested in new players?

"Everton FC are at a crossroads, but I'll help, says David Moyes".

It sugar coats the ludicrous decision of not showing Moyes the door when his move was confirmed.

I actually laughed out loud.

What those just having their eyes opened to this self centred user are thinking lord only knows. All the bluster about integrity and doing favours for his beloved Everton must ring hollow.

Must feel like complete and utter mugs.

Which means he is worth more than 12 mil.

I suppose the question Martinez needs to ask is 'Are we going to get anyone better in the next 5 years ?' If not, sign him, pay him the decent wages and tell Moyes to do one.

If Baines wants to go, sell him to Monaco/Madrid and tell Moyes to do one.

I would be surprised, however, if it fell to Moyes himself to decide on the price that Manchester United offer for the player. (Even if it did, he would bid low at first.)

Correct.
If we negotiated Baines contract 2 weeks ago we would probably have agreed around about 20k increase on his reported 44k per week.
After the Utd interest and the wage they would pay him,imagine what his agent will ask for now.

If he wants out, I'd demand £18m and sign Luke Shaw as his replacement. I think he'll be class.

PS to the united fan who thought they could sweeten the deal with Fabio. One word, don't. He's shit.

That makes sense. If Baines is, as we all believe, the best left-back in the country then he can reasonably expect to receive a commensurate salary. (Wonder how much Ashley Cole gets?)

There is no way that Kenwright will pay what Baines is worth. Therefore Baines will leave; if he remains an Everton player on 1st September you can call me Rafa.

Your post at 991 is a beauty:

"Exactly the same things the phony was saying about Rooney 9 years ago so the player rather than BK himself will get the shit when the player is sacrificed."

Er, wasn't Rooney actually offered a contract that he rejected, and then immediately put a transfer request in? You think its ok for ex-players to kiss the United badge when scoring against us eh Ste? I am more than happy to be deluded if the alternative is your logic...

Still want to wish him well in his new job lads?

Just wait until he starts talking about Baines in his press conference this is only the start.

I remember Moyes once saying "Everton don't sell their better players cheap, that's for sure."

ps: - It seems that there are TWO Tom Owens floating about on here. To differentiate, henceforth I'll put my middle initial 'P' in my name.

If Moyes goes for Baines the reason will be RVP. The deadly left wing crosses to the Dutch left-sided hot-shot will result in goals galore.

Leighton is my favourite player. Let's hope it's a hoax.

Thats the way we operate and its the way we keep the club running.

Unfortunately we havent had time to renegotiate with Baines and get a clause in. Unfortunately full backs just don't cost that much generally, especially when they are 28/29.

Glenn Johnson cost £18's, way overpriced, the English player premium kicking in again, when he was in his mid 20's.

When Baines goes, we wont get over £20 million, its not realistic.

Baines should be England first choice but Hodgson ain't gonna drop the 100-cap full back when he's got so many problems elsewhere.

Considering his age, form, ability, and if we test how much Man Utd want him, I think something around the Johnson fee would be correct.

It's up to us to push it.

Don't forget the statement from Mr Chairman( who did not want to sell him)
"£50 million would not buy his left boot"
3 weeks later ........sells him for £20 million plus add ons.

The mind boggles. Could only happen at Everton.

I would be gutted to see Leighton leave, in fact I would rather we made no signings this Summer if it meant he stayed.

Numerous comments on here about him needing to leave to raise his profile for the World Cup, did he not get voted onto Team of the Year playing with us? Have England qualified already?

I would really love if Kenwright came out and sued Moyes for breach of contract, have we become such a laughing stock that we get treated like this. I hope Martinez tells Bill he wants Leighton to stay as well.

If you really believe that contract 'offer' to Rooney was a serious one with many top European clubs being linked with moves for him post-Euro 2004, then you're even more deluded than I thought.

It was little more than a token gesture from a desperate board who needed the money from the sale, and the player instead would feel the backlash rather than themselves.

A trick used by them many times post-Rooney.

"The worry I have about this, is that Moyes knows, in detail, the financial situation at Everton. It's a game of poker in which the opponent knows our hand. £15m will see this deal done."

Can't be put better or more concisely than that, sadly.

I do not like it but north of £15m will be hard to resist for a LB at his age with 2 years left on his contract. We have a replacement, already on the payroll and it seems to me to be a chance to get some money in to aid some sort of squad rebuilding. Sadly.

BTW, I never heckle a former blue until they bad mouth the club, and for one, I will hapilly clap LB if he goes, out of respect for his efforts over the last few years, he is paid well, but he carries my respect with him.

Ian

BK / RM – sort it out.Confederations Cup pundit, my arse.... Do your job. Get your priorities right.

"As for Baines's thinking, the player came close to joining United last summer, as a target of Ferguson, and would relish the move to Manchester despite stating publicly that he is looking forward to working with the new Everton manager, Roberto Martínez."

It was good while it lasted, Bainsey.

James #917 "If Baines is sold for that reported figure it will be the most disappointing transfer I have ever witnessed at Everton" I guess you're too young to remember Alan Ball.

Phil #942 "The only person to blame for that debacle is Pienaar for not signing a new contract with us" I blame the manager for not offering him what he was obviously worth at the time.

Ross #995 "and only a circus like Everton would allow a man to collect a month's wages for no work" Every company in the world does it, it's called redundancy, holiday pay, pay in lieu, etc.

Chris #079, stop talking common sense! See what you've started, you've got Carl #087 & #148 at it now!

Eric, that's a good shout about Ball, I remember being stunned when I heard that he'd gone. It was such a disappointment.The difference is, though, I think we got a lot of money at that time for Ball and if this report, £12m from Utd, is true, then it's a lot less than we deserve. Trouble is, Bungling Bill will just see the £ sign and Baines will be gone, with Bill fawning all over his Darling Davey in the process.

Although I wouldn't go as far as Mike Hughes #177 - I can understand his sentiments. My first reaction when I heard of this £12M bid whilst watching BBC News was one of anger and amazement at the audacity of David Moyes to make such an offer. We all know that he would have dismissed such an offer if it had been made whilst he was our manager. It shows a lack of respect to Everton to make such a poor offer for a player who is so highly regarded. I am sure that Roberto would have told David Moyes where to go - but also I am sure it would have been done very politely!!!

Perhaps Roberto should make an offer of say £6 or £7M for say Hernandez! But I reckon such disrespectful actions would be beneath our new manager - what a pity our old manager shows such little respect for a club that gave him so much. Yes David Moyes was good for Everton - but perhaps he should realise that it cuts both ways - Everton was good for him.

Kone, Alcaraz and McGeady in.

Hmmmmmm........

Moyes is still on our payroll and not officially the manure manager yet.... What a fucking joke of a club we are.

How much longer are we going to put up with Kenwright?

A man full of dignity though eh?

I wanted this job to blow up in his face. Now I'm so disappointed in that prick that I'll even be supporting the RS when they play them. He's used his inside knowledge and Kenwright HAS to stop our club from being Utd's bitch.

Moyes said he would give us all the help we need when he leaves, what a guy!!

The only thing that annoys me more than this pathetic bid is the prospect of another horrible poisonous little man kissing our badge with his greasy lips. Rooney! Really guys?

As for 15m being good for a 28/29 year old, well, technically he is going into his prime. The next three to four will be his best. Who cares about resale value, what about getting into the top four? I think that that ought to cover the lack of resale. We don't have to be a selling club if we keep characters such as Bainsy around. I reckon he would stay if we offered him a good contract, he has never seemed like those tossers from Sunderland and the RS. Come on Roberto, kick the ginger one into touch.

I have never trusted him.
A complete phoney in my opinion.
Took the kings shilling and kept schtum over all the crap going on in the background.A human shield for Kenwright as he took the club further and further down.
Kenwright will play poodle to Moyes on this one.Trust me if they offer £15 mil he's gone.

Baines is brilliant as an attacking LB but maybe that doesn't fit into Martinez's style of play and he'll be less effective? I'm not convinced that he is the best defender in the world so he defends by attacking.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to leave but if he does go for a good price and we get a good replacement then it isn't the end of the world. Who would blame him for wanting to a) win something and b) further his England chances.

One ridiculous thought I had was, what if BK asked DM to put a bid in. Then he turns it down and Baines stays. Make it look like he's a strong Chairman and shows we are building a team rather than selling our best players.

If we got an offer of £18million - which many see as about right - I'd still turn it down. Baines is a professional lad and will continue to fight for the club even if was tempted to go to Man Utd. His value on the pitch will never be equaled by the the sum we may receive.

I say keep him and get another 5 or 6 years of great service.

Sell Heitinga - even if its only for 3 million. Get that 50k pw off the books.
Sell Fellaini if the money's right - though I wouldn't mind keeping him if not.

Dead on. When will the penny drop that all we have left to try and change things with this Chairman and 'board' is to daub the banners and take to the streets (outside GP)....attract TV etc etc...

As I've posted so many times here, the Reds as I'm sure everyone will agree, would not take these continuous embarrassing, sickening, shameless, belittling, fucking ad infinitum shite broken-promised theatricals for a single season.

Kenwright, man or mouse ??.....

Pass him the fucking cheese!!!

The important questions are: Does Baines want to leave? At what price does selling a 28 year old left back make sense? What price are Man U willing to go up to?

If the lad wants to go and have a shot at titles and champions league then I cannot blame him. I would say that anything around the £20m mark would be decent business from our perspective although he would of course be a big loss.

Yes there is loads of nonsense...your post being typical of it.

We have a manager still under contract who is bidding for our players...That is an absolute disgrace.

People have lauded Moyes for years about being a bastion of integrity and dignity...ever since the 'Howard' episode - where he put his relationship with Ferguson above what was best for this club...It has been clear to me that his integrity is a myth..

Now that opinions been pretty much validated.

He has done far worse that anything Mark Hughes ever did...and not only is he being a snake, he's being derisory as well..

12 million my arse!

BTW, how so all people who gave Moyes a standing ovation feel now that he's strong arming us?

I hold David Moyes in high esteem, but this would probably be something that changes this. And does Kenwrong have any idea how dumb he will look if this happens..

Martinez needs to get his ass back from that FIFA micky mouse cash cow cup, and shore up things at his new home.

That should be it then, if Moyes is the principled man many believe he is..

Then again, money corrupts...

He knows how important he is for us, I only hope when he brings Manure to Goodison, the happy clappers out there remember he's already started to shit on us whilst still technically employed by us ( could be said that started a while back).

There's no player in the current squad, save for perhaps Coleman, who is more suited to Martinez's style of play. On paper, at least, Martinez, able to play with two of the best wing-backs in the division, is a tantalising prospect. Baines will be pivotal in the way Martinez wants to develop our style.

If Martinez has a say, which is the way Moyes had it, I'd imagine the 'not for sale' is genuine. Bainesy has spoken to Martinez now as well so I'd guess he knows a little of the key role he'll have in the new system. Its going to come down to the player whether he wants to leave for the medals or stay and be part of the new order. Simple as that.

It must be nice living in your naive world. Man Utd are bidding for Baines, not Moyes, and nothing prevent them from doing it even if Moyes is employed by Everton for a few more days (and yes obviously he will have sanctioned it).

And what do you expect? For them to come in with a initial offer of £20M? £12M is just the starting point of the negotiation. That is how it works. And anyway, if it going to happen, let's get it over with so we can then do something with the cash.

First of all, to all the people complaining about Moyes still being contracted to Everton and making bids for our players - does it also piss you off that Martinez isn't actually our manager yet and yet he is making bids for players? I don't see any of you complaining about that? Double standards gents.

Secondly, can you all stop bloody arguing? We're all supposed to be Evertonians and therefore have a common goal - debate is one thing, but personal insults are pointless and so many threads on here lately have descended into rows it's getting tiresome and nobody wins.

So, Baines...

Man Utd & Moyes £12m bid is merely testing the water. It's simple business strategy and everybody does is. Have you ever bought a secondhand car? You always bid low, simple principal to test out the seller.

Moyes is fully aware of Everton's valuation of the player, and knows exactly how Kenwright does business, so he'll be back with another offer and the price will go up, and we'll either sell at the right price, or we'll keep him. Unless Baines puts in a transfer request which seems unlikely but not out of the question.

Baines is 29 in December, so lets say Utd offer him a 4 yr contract, that would mean he's coming up 33 at the end of it, which means he has very little re-sale value. This alone drops his market value. He's also a full-back so to all the people citing Daniel Levy & Gareth Bale at £85 are way wide of the mark - there's simply no comparison whatsoever. We all know attacking players go for more money, and although Baines is an attacking full-back, he's still technically a defender so his price is lower.

Given that it's an initial offer and that it's Manchester United that have made a bid, not David Moyes, people really need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Roberto Martinez is widely regarded as coveting various Wigan players, but that seems to sit OK with you all because you support Everton - that doesn't really make a whole lot of justification for your bitterness.

Other people are already laying into Baines, saying we should 'give him a hard time' when he comes to Goodison (if we sell him), but why? Do you hate every player we've ever sold? Of course you don't. It's business, and no player is (cliche time) bigger than the club, never forget that.

This entire process has only just started, and Baines will probably be sold because every player has his price, much like Fellaini, though nobody seems bothered that he might be sold either, which again seems like double standards.

Knee-jerk reactions to initial transfer bids are really quite ludicrous.

To be fair, that site is just a blog written by someone. It doesn't hold any more weight than anything anyone writes on these forums.

My post above highlights the 'truth' of the transfer just as much.

Leighton Baines created 116 goalscoring chances last season, 12 more than any other player in the Premier League.

You are effectively buying goals for your strikers. Hence he should be a high value purchase. Plus he scores too.

It's a fair point you make about him being a creator of goals, and scorer of a few as well - I'm still not convinced he'll go for anything like the £20/£30m people are quoting on here. That seems like Football Manager fantasy to me.

Al#252 - good point that Everton haven't officially commented, and likewise neither have Utd. It's early days and time will tell. I'm not inspired by those signings either, especially McGeady - he's always seemed like a bit of a show-pony to me, with little or no end product.

Kone is a bit old but then we can't afford a young striker so might be our only option up front.

Alcaraz seems like a good idea, since we'll only have to pay his wages.

Robles?

James Marshall #245.

Your post is sort of right and you are making a good effort trying to pin this transfer on ManU instead of Moyes.

However, Moyes is the manager. He makes the decisions and Manu will go for the players Moyes wants. Therefore, Moyes makes the call.

I personally had hoped that Moyes would have told his money men to lay off all Everton players, thereby waiting for any bidding to start for the likes of Baines or Fellaini. Then, whoa and behold, Moyes could of jumped in and said that ManU will pay the correct price for a player who is currently rated with the most assists in Europe (and it ain't 12 million).

I had a lot time for Moyes, IMO he took Everton to a higher level - now the fucker needs a good slap.

Martinez is (apparently) doing exactly the same thing but nobody seems to mind that!

There have been a lot of calls from people on here to buy Mcmanaman & Maloney et al....

Really, what difference does it actually make if Moyes or Wenger, or Mourinho or anyone else buys our players? It doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

You appear to be leaning toward the latter :-)

For me, never has a player's stats been such a measure of the fee they should command. He's simply one of the most consistently influential players in the game at the moment.

I'd hate to see Baines go, but I think we just state we won't entertain any bid under £30M (or whatever fee we agree would make a huge difference to our overall team) and leave it at that. If he goes for that, fair enough - that's football and we could certainly use it to boost the team in several areas.

Moyes has let us down badly with his behaviour by first refusing to sign a new contract and therefore we received no compensation. We can all be sure we knew Fergie was retiring at seasons end.

It all leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and we wonder why people call us the Bitter Blues.... Who can blame us? Our ex-manager bids £12M for the best left back in the Premier League knowing what he means to us. Disgraceful behaviour!

First seller gives ridiculous price, then buyer counters with silly offer..ad infinitum until something is agreed or not.

Anyway, if they can get 20 million and save on the increased wage bill then, Moyes or not, you'd expect them to consider it as a business.

Oviedo and a youngster to replace one of the *proven* best players in the country...it has to be a serious amount of cash and a decent plan to replace him.

The Levy & Bale comparison was made because he conducts club business with one thing in mind - Spurs. (Don't know what position the player plays in has to do with anything??)

We have a gobshite Chairman who on the verge of tears every time you listen to him, and I don't trust a word he says about any transfer. (Not businesslike at all)

Moyes should have left on gardening leave as soon as he was announced as the Man Utd boss. Any other club in the top 6 would have packed his case for him. Didn't have to be nasty - just...businesslike.

He, and he alone has decided to go for Baines, and pay as little for him as he possibly can. He also holds insider information on what price we will accept. He also has a personal relationship with said player. He also knows he is our best player, and we are desperate for cash.

So I will call a c**t if you don't mind.

As you say " just...businesslike".

And often effective sadly

I rarely hold any bitterness these days where football is concerned, and maybe that's the (apparent) difference between me and many supporters. I gave up being angry about these little things, because at the end of the day, they really don't make any difference.

If Baines goes to Man Utd, or he goes to the moon, he's still going to be an ex-Everton player and that's all the matters.

Does it bother you that Roberto Martinez is on the lookout for new recruits, some of them from Wigan?

The 12million offer is not that surprising...for us it's frustrating of course, but for a starting offer for a 28 year old full back with 2 years left on his contract, it's not derisory. What negotiation process starts with an offer at market value? Unless Liverpool are doing the buying of course. The one that springs to mind recently is Arsenal's opening 5mil bid for Arteta...before agreeing a 10mil offer. Negotiation is just business. Personally, I expect they would be willing to pay 15/16million, but I don't expect we would sell for anything less than 18million. The only way i'd be slightly less aggrieved to see Baines leave, is if Hernandez is involved in some capacity (would love a loan with an option to buy...although it is unlikely). But I think Hernandez would solve every striking problem with have...and if we could get on loan, with a buy fee of 10 million ish, and 15/16 million for Baines, it may benefit us long term. But personally, I do not think we have any left back anywhere near talented enough in this squad. Oviedo is far too lightweight, and has not looked good enough. Garbutt has next to no experience. I would love Luke Shaw...but personally, I think he will hold out for a move to Chelski.
But I do not want us to sell Baines. I think he is too important to the way we play. And if Martinez does change our system...which I think he might, Baines will become even more valuable.

Pity this blew up the day after the EGM though isn't it? Still, there's always the AGM next year for the "right of reply".

It also make a massive difference, if they request a transfer, as Kone supposedly has.

Don't forget, as Man Utd manager, Moyes has the pick of most left backs in world football - so he's a twat to want to take our best player, when he has the money and pulling power to take his pick. A Scottish, miserable ginger twat.

It's a no-brainer really. Why on earth would he want to buy a player from another league when Baines is on his doorstep? Put yourself in his position for a minute....

He's using his inside knowledge of a club that he messed around for six months, to try and steal a world class left back on the cheap.

I hope he has a big transfer kitty too because I'd be looking at a centre mid and winger if I was him as well as forward if Rooney goes.

He knows Baines is pretty much irreplaceable to us, and he knows how much Tiny Tears wants for him. We will be a lot weaker if he leaves, that's why he's a twat, he's not even officially left the club yet - lack of respect all round.

For me, I don't see much difference between selling Baines and selling Fellaini. One of them may have to go if we are to see the improvements we need to an ageing squad in midfield and up front. I would rather see us be proactive than sit on our hands and do nothing.

Right now there's no serious movement for Fellaini, which suggests that Baines has to be the sacrificial lamb.

I wouldn't have put it past the biggest Blue to have realised this, and pretty much offered him to Moyes, with the initial refusal just part of the charade.

So that means we will have Fellaini for another year, but hopefully by the end of next season, Mirallas will be worth a bit more - he'll have 2 years left on his deal then too.

That is the Everton way under our ownership. We should be used to it by now.

You watch for the final insult now, £14m and a Manc reserve. I fooking hate football.

Man of dignity indeed.

Is like your good mate telling you how much he is selling his house for.
" I have got it on the market for 300k but my long term prospects are not looking good,so between me and you I would take 250k"

Then you go and tell your other mate to bid 250k.
Whichever way you look at it, it's a backhanded move from Mr Righteous.

What happens when there are no good players to sell?

Oh well, theres always Mirallas, Coleman and Barkley, so we should be ok till roughly 2020 anyway.

We are fucked.

Moyes has made a very disrespectful bid - its not "somebody else" at Man Utd who put the bid in, its the manger. If another big club (title rival) had bid and Baines said he wanted to go, then Moyes stepped in with a bid, that would be fine. But the timing and blatant undervaluation are the issue.

Yes, people can say, it's business practice to put in a low opening bid – maybe one 20% below valuation, but £12M is an absolute piss take. It says to me Moyes real aim is about £18M which again is not enough. Baines is worth £25M. His assets, his (amazing) fitness record, his character, and age.

Would love to see your criteria for what constitutes business practice and what is a piss take. Usually a piss take is just what the weaker party in the negotiations calls it and the stronger calls it good business practice.

All this bollocks about integrity and all the over the top hurt is embarrassing. The fucker works for the enemy now, so why would he do anything at all that benefits Everton but is detrimental to him new employers?

He is doing nothing he hasn't always try to do for us, buy low and sell high.

Man U have been sniffing around Baines for a while now and his name was probably already on the hit list given by Fergie before he retired.

I hope Baines will stay, we certainly need him but like with Arteta, you can see why he would move, Champions League footy and a very good chance of silverware.

My reference to the Martinez going back to Wigan players has nothing to do with them being relegated and everything to do with him not being our Manager until July 1st, the same as Moyes at Utd. That's the thing people have conveniently forgotten.

The fact Wigan are in the Championship doesn't mean a damn thing. Why does that make it any different?

As for the basis for a low bid - Arteta was originally bid £5 by Arsenal - we sold him to them for £10m which is obviously double their initial bid.....I think you can see where I'm going with this ;-)

But... Moyes is still under contract at Everton, and consequently, it's a disgrace that a bid has come in before the 1st of July. United could easily have waited a week. This is not the way a club of United's statue should operate. And Moyes should have the foresight to warn his club to wait, as there is no way this offer was made without his consent.

And there is no absolute criteria for piss-taking when it comes to offers. Personally, I think offering two-thirds of what many have stated as a likely market value for Baines (eg, £18M) is not bad going. Btw, anyone see the Swedish film 'A Hijacking' recently? It offered an interesting insight into the process of negotiation.

The news on Redmond looks interesting... I hope it's true. I don't see a £2M-ish rumored fee to be much of a risk for an English player as their sell-ons are always very good.

I would hope he stays regardless,if there is a better left back in Europe he must be some footballer.
In my opinion if they offer £15 million he is gone.

Jordi Alba
Marcelo
Phillipe Lahm
Felipe Luis
Fabio Coentrao

Lahm as you know is currently plying his trade at right back, but has previously played left side.

I don't believe Kenwright would ever tell another club that a player is not for sale without somehow getting the message across that he is as it's how he survives and consequently how we have for the last 11 years.

I think Baines will go and so too Fellaini... so, according to Kenwright, Martinez should get a war chest of around £40 mill with those two sales and the extra money he was promised before player sales.

That's what Kenwright said: Martinez will have some money to spend and ALL the money from any player sales.

Most of us don't fucking want them.

If you can enlighten me to the differences in the situation, then please, I'm all ears. And don't tell me it's because they got relegated - that has zero bearing on anything. This is about people being upset Moyes is trying to buy players from his old club, despite not being in the job yet = same as Martinez.

What on earth does the fact Wigan got relegated have to do with anything?

Also: "Bolton South Korean international winger Chung Yung Lee might be putting on a blue shirt."

"Redmond wants to come to Everton."

"No truth in Fer to Canaries rumour but the lad is very keen to play in the Premier League."

1:00 pm Fri.

How would that prick have reacted to a £12m offer for Baines when he was our manager? Exactly.

The point I'm trying to make is that Moyes doesn't start until July 1st and neither does Martinez - plus both of them are in negotiations for players at their old club.

It's as simple as that, so yeah, I am for real because it's a pretty valid point in my opinion.

It has NOTHING to do with how good or bad a player is.

Have there been any reports of Martinez putting any bids in for any player?
I have seen rumours of him being interested in Kone and Alcarez but not seen any reports of a bid.

Secondly: The first bid is merely to test the waters, they in no way expected it to be accepted. It is the norm.

Thirdly: David Moyes has nothing to do with Everton anymore. If Baines goes there or to Chelsea or City it makes not one iota of difference.

If Baines said he wanted to go and Moyes then made a bid - completely justifiable, no problem whatsoever.

He's a twat.

I don't want to see him go, obviously. But If it's a choice of keeping Fellaini or Baines, i'd go with the former. He's younger,thus his value will only increase over the next 3 years, and I think there is a lot more to come. And a world class central/defensive midfielder is a must if we wish to play an attractive, attacking style.

Also, with the huge improvement in Seamus Coleman, Baines' importance (in that he was the only attacking, creative force we've had recently) will lessen, and we can afford to bring in someone new and young on the left. Pienaar is also a lesser force than previously, wit creative emphasis moving to Mirallas, our left hand side has lost much of the burden.

If we can get £20million, or even a £12-15 plus someone else (of top quality) in the mould of Welbeck (who may well want more games in a W/C year). I'd like to see a cheeky bud for Hernandez, who is criminally underused, but it's probably impossible. Also like to see Nick Powell come here.

Err...I would have thought the difference is pretty obvious. Moyes (ok, Utd at the behest of Moyes) has put a bid in for an Everton player whilst he's still 'officially' contracted as the Everton manager. Martinez has not put a bid in for any Wigan players as yet. Claiming you can't see a glaring distinction there does indeed make it seem that you are 'all ears'..,with little else inbetween. Even Inspector fucking Gadget could deduce the difference.

I think Bill needs to get that money out he reckons he has and Martinez needs to get his arse into Finch Farm ASAP.

That's the case with anything, ain't it. My car ain't for sale, nor is my TV or my kettle. If someone called me today offering to buy one of them mind, and the price was right, then i'd sell them. Doesn't mean they were previously 'for sale'. 'For Sale' means to actively look for a buyer.

We should set the figure, either to scare of Man Utd or anyone else, or to make them break the bank. We hold the advantage.

I can assure, I am not naïve in the slightest..In fact, the rather salient point of my post was that I saw through this chancer quite some time ago...

Correct. I think some people are allowing their dislike of Moyes to blind them to the facts, which are as you have described.

I have said it before, I have watched my beloved Blues for 50 years and have been fortunate enough to see us pick up trophies in this country and Europe. And I can tell you it's a brilliant feeling. I am sick to death of seeing our best players being sold when we are on the verge of getting those glory days back again. Why do you think these clubs want these players? Because it's to strengthen their teams to either get success or regain success.

I know it has been for financial reasons at times but not now. There is £60 million in the kitty for every club from the new TV rights. I don't care what anybody says, Moyes has treated our great club appallingly, and what's worse, Billy Liar has let him. Tell him and anybody else to take a run and jump. We will sell who we want to sell.

Speak to Screech and Baines and ask them to give us till January if they want to go now. And if it is not going well, then we can discuss your futures then. If we keep robbing Peter to pay Paul, then expect sod all at the end of every season.

And whilst I do accept the old 'you have to haggle' stuff people are saying, DM has undoubtedly acted like a complete twat for putting in the same bid he refused under a year ago, not forgetting Baines has had arguably his best season and just properly broke into the England team.

I just hope he feels he wants to stay at a passionate club where he is loved rather than a media circus where most fans take photos of you before learning your name. That said, I did sense he might be off at Chelsea when he threw his boots into the crowd. Great catch by the way, you big bastard! (You know who you are...)

Baines is a bloody good player but in two years time will have next to no value. Get used to it!

After 11 years at our club, he hasn't learned anything about us. For all his tactical short-comings, I always thought he knew and understood what it meant to be a Blue... but, after he dropped over half the team for the game at Anfield two seasons ago, he went down in my estimations.

And now he has the cheek to come back for Baines — it is an insult to Kenwright, EFC and, most importantly, the fans. If this bid is true, I am no longer a Moyes fan.

Fer was Moyes choice, if Martinez doesn't fancy him then he will end up elsewhere. If Martinez DOES want him, and we fail (again) to either find the money or cock the deal up then that will be a scandal. I am of the opinion that we don't have any money and Chancer Bill is hoping something, a player sale or the TV money, will enable us to do a deal. Even a player out of contact will want a sizeable signing on fee. As a club, we will go nowhere fast with Kenwright and his chancers in charge.

But we'll move on. Edmonton Oilers were fine after Wayne Gretzky left!!!!

Charming as ever on here. There's really no need for it.

Back in the real world. It will take either a massive bid we can't ignore (Lescott money) or for Baines to decide he wants to go before this happens. Baines has been making positive noises about Martinez and there is a new contract in the pipeline, so I'm cautiously optimistic about holding on to him!

The phrase 'nothing to stop him' sounds like Bill is once again pimping out our best players. I suppose he has to find a way to provide the funds he promised to Martinez. Latest rumours are United to come back with a £15m offer with £5m add-ons taking it to £20m. How do people feel about that?

I think they call it 'trolling' these days, whereas in my day we just called it baiting.

I didn't even know they had a team.

Not sure about young Redmond but I like his strong desire to join us. Still learning, still growing and one for the future.

Leroy Fer and/or Vadis would be preferable but the main cash must go on a striker. Don't know much about this Bony guy but he certainly knows where the net is. Even Kone is far better than Jelly and Vic and knows the Martinez system.

We also need someone to challenge Howard

Personally, I'm looking forward to Oviedo getting a proper chance. He is a very intelligent player and a beautiful crosser of the ball. Martinez is sure to like him. Moyes favoured youngsters built like Rooney, Rodwell, Anichebe and Barkley. The smaller lads didn't get a look in.

As for all the name calling between Evertonians with difference of opinion... shithouse... no balls... idiot etc etc — that won't change the fact that we are a feeder club, and will remain that whilst we have The Fool as our Chairman.

If Baines leaves, so what? Nobody lasts forever and we're better off taking some cash and moving on before he's too old to sell. That will be the boards stance as well.

Next.

Was that aimed at me? Now don't take it as a dig, but you forget to add who you were actually addressing.

If you are going to play the self-righteous indignation card then you have to expect someone to bite.

Your opening post on this thread spoke of 'ludicrous', 'knee jerk reactions'. You then paint all those who've lambasted Moyes with the 'bitterness' brush.

Not content with that you then come out with the blatant untruth: "Other people are already laying into Baines, saying we should 'give him a hard time' when he comes to Goodison (if we sell him), but why? Do you hate every player we've ever sold? ".

Where does anybody make such a statement? Who has demanded that a shitstorm should descend on Baines if he dares depart? Nowhere and nobody that I can see. In fact, nearly everyone has said they would not blame Baines one iota if he left.

So, it could be that you simply made it up, or it could be that you have read the following comment and totally misunderstood it ...

"This just is wrong and it shows no respect. He derserves loads of shit when he comes back for the way he has acted since hes left."
.....

You don't need detective skills on par with that dishevelled little dosser Columbo to fathom out who he's actually talking about there. I'll give you a clue.....it's not Baines. Want me to narrow it down some more? When he's at work he has the initials DM emblazoned above his tit.

(Dan Brierley: "Is it Danger Mouse?").

Sorry if you feel slighted James. It's not intended as a personal attack but you can't simply lambast everyone and then piously portray yourself as some sort of victim.

Sufficient differences have been cited (Bid vs No bid; Kone wants to move, Baines wants to stay; relegated club versus direct PL competitor; compensation paid to Wigan for RM; Baines our star Player of the Season; Moyes's agreement not to come after him... [Okay, I know the last one is a joke... but that is what was reported some weeks back!]) to make the two situations far from comparable. Have a little grace and don't wave this ultra-boring "trolling" flag, please.

And John is right: nobody on this thread has used the phrase 'give him a hard time' (YOUR quotes!). Don't make shit up. That's one thing that really gets my goat!

Wimbledon were successful for many years doing this till they ran out of players that other clubs wanted and dropped like a stone. Let's hope we are not at the start of another Wimbledon!

As for the comment about people laying into Baines if/when he comes back to Goodison - I assure you I didn't make anything up, it's on this thread somewhere...

I was and am fully aware of who is talking about who on here - my judgement might appear to be a little off to you, and some others, but my reading skills are absolutely fine thanks!

I haven't lambasted everyone, but there are a majority on this thread that don't seem to understand the point I was trying to make about Moyes & Martinez not actually being contracted to their respective new clubs yet. All I got in response was the (now sadly standard) mild abuse I mentioned earlier.

I also didn't think anyone was bitter at Moyes - they're seemingly bitter about the fact he/Utd are interested in Baines. That's not bitterness about him, or him leaving, but regarding his interest in an Everton player.

Like I said before, Utd coming in for Baines is a no brainer.

"Sounds to me the Board want him to go why announce in public we're going to offer him a new contract - seems to me PR exercise so when they sell him they say we really wanted him to stay blah blah blah"

Just so; they've done it before and they'll do it again. If there is interest from another club in one of your players then you offer him improved terms; you don't just say you're going to do so.

There is simply no chance that Kenwright will pay Baines what he is worth. If Baines is still an Everton player on 1st September then I will do the Dance of the Sugar-Plum Fairy down Goodison Road at the first home game next season.

Stinks of the usual PR shite to me too. How Fellaini is paid more than Baines who is twice as consistent I'll never know. I hope Baines wants to stay but who knows if that even will count for anything.

BK and Moyes will still be as thick as thieves so I wouldn't put anything past either of them. I hope Moyes gets the reception he deserves when he returns to Goodison. That guy only looks out for himself and all this mask of dignity doesn't wash with me. I hope we do Man Utd as much as I hope we do the RS.

AND WE LOVE OUR DEGSY MOUNT.......

Fact is that Man U need a good left back and Baines is one of the best around. Chances are they would have bid for them whoever was boss so all this Moyes is stabbing us in the back stuff is nonsense. This is standard football. As for Moyes has inside information and knows that we have no money...so does the whole world!

All that matter is how much Man U are prepared to pay, whether the lad wants to leave and at what price it makes sense for us. I would suggest that anything over £18m is decent business for a player nearing his 30s. I wish we were a club that had funds and could buy without having to sell first but sadly we are not.

Unfortunately we DO have to be a selling club when we keep characters such as Kenwright around.

Stuart #220, I don't think our chairman is as circumspect as that, he's probably just leaked it to the press without even an offer from United.

Darren #264 :but I think we just state we won't entertain any bid under £30M" You mean sust like we did with Rooney? Remember how that worked out?

Russ #293, should be a done deal then, Moyes just has to sign the player reiftration over to United.

Paul #299, no, it just means you were trying it on at the original price and would be happy with the reduced price.

Tony J # 307 "If the offer was genuine, EFC have done the correct thing and told Moyes where to go." If the offer was genuine we'd be seeing LB on the back pages of the Manchester Evening News holding a United shirt by now.

John #315, I sincerely believe that we will be under no pressure from the banks to sell players this transfer window due to the extra £20mill we'll recieve from telly money which will cover the annual loss. But we do need to sell players to provide transfer funds for new players

Fran #340, stop with the common sense, haven't we had enough of it ignored already?

Drew #375 "or for Baines to decide he wants to go before this happens" All the players the Club have needed to sell have conveniently decided they wanted to go, some have even been so desperate to go they waited until deadline day to put in their transfer requests.

Dan #374 "It thrills them to actually be able to be abusive, albeit from the safety of being behind a keyboard hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles away" Google "pot kettle black" and "irony"

Myself, I'm just wondering if we paid Wigan what their fans thought Baines was worth??

Some really valid points there.Good post.

Micheal, James is spot on. There are very strong parallels between the two scenarios. And how do you know Baines is not actually keen on a move to Man U? He is hardly likely to come out publically and say it is he? The key point is that man united and Moyes are doing nothing different to what any other club would do, and we would happily take some of Wigan's best players.

And good point from Eric.... did we underpay for Baines in the first place?

But anyway, logic and reasoning is pretty pointless on this thread. One day they might get over the embarrassment of the 'Moyes will never win anything, and will never get offered a top job' statements.

Your now whinging just because your 'points' were taken to bits earlier in this thread and now you've run out of things to say.

Naive of you to think Moyes has nothing to do with the Baines bid.
Are you suggesting he has no say on incoming transfers?

Then to dismiss the posts that point to the very significant differences, and start blabbing about "trolling", is disingenuous, to say the least.

Think about the timeline. Martinez has said publicly that he wants Baines to sign a new contract, which if he did manage to sign, would inflate his price dramatically. United simply could not wait for Moyes to be in place, they need to put a bid in before Baines signs that contract to signal their interest, and place the seed into Baines mind.

If it was true, what is Moyes going to do? Say 'ah, fuck this, they made a decision before I arrived, I am not going there anymore!!'? He can't say anything about how the club should be run until his contract starts.

Apparently Fergie wanted Baines to wait his time as a sub and get used to the United way.

I'm not saying it's true; merely a rumour at best. The point is that unless something serious happens then it's all speculation. United testing the water with a nominal bid isn't going to make me lose sleep.................. Tonight!!

The fault is entirely Kenwright's. We are in our present parlous state because of his egoism, incompetence, complacency, arrogance and stupidity.

However much I try I cannot blame Moyes. He now works for Manchester United and will put their interests first. A couple of weeks here or there is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. Ok, maybe Moyes could have gone on gardening leave; but our problems go far too deep for that to matter much.

Unless and until Kenwright sells up and pisses off we're going to go on as we are: a fucking shambles off the pitch.

"He can't say anything about how the club should be run until his contract starts"

No offence intended but that point exacerbates your naivety.

It's Kenwright's fault for United wanting the best LB in the league?

Moyes is a twat; I knew he would screw us over. I didn't believe all that crap about Kenwright saying not to come back for our players. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if he told him he could come back for players — it hasn't stopped people saying Martinez is going to do it.

No.

But it is Kenwright's fault that we are in such a weak financial position that United feel able to offer absurdly low prices for our best players; it's his fault that we have been overtaken by clubs who couldn't hold a candle to us 10-15 years ago; it's his fault that the club has adopted a divide-and-rule attitude toward its own fans.

He has been an unalloyed disaster for Everton.

Some players deserve big wages and if they can do better elsewhere good luck to them. We are no longer wealthy and need to set pay limits. If we don't we've had it.

The brilliant Lewandowski has been on £30k a week for the last three years. If Dortmund can do it so can we

Contract renewals have got out of hand. They need to be sorted. ...Now.

Remember the January window. We couldn't even afford a loan player..

It was a lot longer than 10-15 years ago mate. We were fighting relegation then and years before. Probably need to go back a lot longer than that before we can say other teams couldn't hold a candle to us.

Tony J # 307, it's not bollocks about integrity. Integrity is the big thing with his admirers and, in my view, he has demonstrated that he has none. I never rated him highly as a coach but really thought he was a rare man of honour and standing.

We need to let go.

Catterick was blessed with Moores as a benefactor; Kendall won and won with limited resources but in an era when it was a much more level playing field; and Moyes consistently made silk purses out of sows' ears. And kept us at the north end of the Prem.

I guess that Johnny Carey would also have his admirers as would Joe Royle and even the sometimes derided Gordon Lee gets well spoken of in some quarters. But I truly believe Moyes was great in the context of the circumstances in which he worked.

Tin hat at the ready!

Mr Chairman stated "one of the all time great managers"
NOT "one of the all time great Everton managers"
Bit of a difference there.
And most definitely a false statement.

I can see him talked about,in years to come, in the same breath as Ferguson, Clough, etc

Baines will have been tapped up by Moyes and cuddly Ken will have already agreed.

This £12 million starter bid, will probably increase to around £18- 20 million by which time Kenwright will claim victory for holding out for a decent price.

Yes, that's true, we have under-performed basically since the late eighties. But even ten years ago the likes of Spurs and Man City would not have been regarded as being bigger than Everton; they are now.

It would be a terrible sight, but it would be a price worth paying.

Wake up and smell the coffee, he shit on us and will try to get our best players for less than fuck all. I wonder how he'll be greeted at Goodison when he's an away manager? Shame that fixture is so far away, but hey, he didn't know till he was invited to Sir Alec's house.

Ladies and Gentleman, Mr David Moyes.... still makes me fell ill... small club mentality!

Glad he's gone, I hope they win nowt!

People who are saying that Baines is nearly 30. I may be wrong (and I apologise if I am) but I thought he was 28 and 29 near the end of the year. He has a least another 5 years at the top, that's why Man Utd want him.

And regarding us being skint, I would say we are in the same amount of debt as 80% of the Premier League clubs, and some in more. The Red Shite are in more debt than us. Does it stop them trying to get success? How many players have they signed? I would suggest that they are spending the money that every other Premier League club have got this year.

I can only blame this board, and how they have got a lot of our fans to accept no success and anything from mid table to 5th as a great season.

I'm not sure I believe in karma (until recently I thought it was a type of curry) but "what comes around, goes around" springs to mind in some similar disrespectful incidents.
1. Mark Hughes' handling of the Lescott deal - virtually sneering at our relative poverty.
2. Gerard Houllier sneering alongside the newly signed Barmby.
3. Honest Harry's £125k offer (or was it quid?) for Phil Neville.
Some might argue that Harry was actually flashing the cash on that one but all three got their comeuppance (well in a football millionaire sort of way).

I seriously believe that DM will not be a success at MUFC.
I hope that's partly because Baines wants to stay here.

But as everyone knows this year every club has got 60 million from the new tv rights. Whoever finishes bottom gets 57 million for gods sake. Hope billy liar doesn't know that or we will be in the shit.

We have to keep this team together for at least one more season at least. We all enjoyed how we played at the beginning of the season , before that Ginger twat bottled it as usual . If we could add a decent finisher and a creative midfielder like Razinsky ( sorry crap at spelling) I think his name is at Arsenal. And a keeper to put Howard under pressure. Then I think we will get that success we as supporters deserve.

I take my hat off to Moyes for being ruthless enough to try and improve the team he now manages by trying to sign one of the best players in Europe, I mean what would you expect him to fucking do ?!?!? If we had the money and clout of United and appointed a decent manager from a decent team would we object to him going back to his ex club for one of their best players ? NO we would not, its what we would WANT him to do !!!

Why don't people start getting in the real world of football on this site instead of the over romantic living in the past world a lot seem to live in !!

PS Moyes IS a c**t for bidding for him, especially only 12 million, but hey, that's football for you :-)

Thanks. Nice quote.

Go back to your books sir.

Wonder if that is what Ged had in mind?

Scottish usage:
a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others.
b) A good humoured admonition, a term of endearment
c) A reckless, absent minded or unwise person
a) "No. That wisnae wit she meant, ya big numpty!"
b) i.e. "Silly billy", "You big dafty"
c) "That numpty's driving with no lights on!"

I have also heard Fellaini wants to stay another year to allow his contract to run down thereby increasing his opportunity for a bigger contract.

A lot depends on BS Billy and his cronies to show their ambition or lack of it.

In fact,if anyone demanded more than £50/60K a week I would suggest that they try to get it elsewhere. The world is packed with decent players who are not even earning half of that.

Dortmund don't pay these daft wages ,Why should we.

The real culprit now sits in Manchester. His insistence on keeping certain players forced the club into acceding to their outrageous demands.

Well.....No more. Enough is enough. They can all be replaced. ALL of them. Messi and Ronaldo they are not.

Martinez is probably the right guy at the right time. He has business qualifications and knows where to put the decimal point.

This great club is more important to me than any player and it's about time someone put their foot down. That someone may be Roberto Martinez.

Would Baines want to leave for medals? No guarantees that MU would win any in deed it's likely that if we do improve and step up we would be one of their main challengers.

A 4th place MU is a real possibility this time round. This is why if we did sell Baines he would be worth much more than £15 or 20 mil to MU. 38 games a season, significant creator who will contribute 15 to 20 points, that's what they are buying whilst weakening an emerging rival to boot.

our manager, has put in a bid for one of our own players, (correct, yes/no, Moyes is still on the payroll, RM isn't,), because our inept board didn't tell Moyes to fuck off when it they should and now we have this sort of shit to deal with.

think i've got it and it's a fucking shambles, ( anyone who says Moyes ain't officially started at Utd- wake up and and smell the bull shit), couldn't see this happening anywhere else but Club Goodison, absolute disgrace.

We're a fucking laughing stock in my eyes.

Ps sorry for the language, but I'm wound up.

Why don't you turn your attentions to our shambles of a board, and ask the question of them: why can't we compete with teams like Spurs in terms of wage bill? The reason why is Spurs have competent people running their club, and we have a bunch of self-serving morons running ours

" we have a bunch of self-serving morons running ours (club)",

That's the best compliment the board have had this year.

Mark. Delighted you've noticed I forever hark on about the wage bill .I am a complete novice on financial matters and do my best to understand the business wizards of Toffee Web.

Yes, they keep howling about the board being a bunch of incompetent morons and rI'm prepared to believe it. I also believe Moyes is not entirely innocent.

I cannot draw comparisons between Everton and Spurs because I don't know the financial situation at White Hart Lane. Their geographical advantage is enormous and was probably the main reason Lewis Holtby chose to join them.

What I do know is that we couldn't even bring in one single loan player in the January window because our wage bill was over the limit. Never mind the situation at other clubs. Unlike you I am not interested in other clubs.

According to the money wizards of these threads, the wage bill must be reduced. Blast the board to kingdom come. I couldn't care less. It won't save one single penny. These guys live in a different universe where you and I don't exist.
Yes, they will listen to the badge complaints because it costs them nothing but if you are waiting for them to put time and money into running the club sensibly then I can only assume that you believe in miracles.

It's a free world. If you can rant about the board, I can rant about the wage bill.
If you don't like it, lump it.

If you want to know who is responsible, first you should look at who benefits.

Not only does Moyes slip out the back door on the sly, leaving us with no compensation, he is now trying to use his knowledge of our financial position to get our best players on the cheap for his new mega-rich club while still officially being paid by our club... WHAT A JOKE!!!

I hope you lot who defended Moyes through the terrible dross-laden years are now ashamed of yourselves. Those of us who pointed out his failings and who never trusted him were often shot down as negative and anti-Everton. Well, now the Rat has been rumbled for what he really is, what do you say now? Is it still a case of IMWT, lads — or have you opened your eyes yet?

That leaves us in the usual position that we have to sell if we want a half-decent transfer budget for Martinez. In my opinion, if Man Utd offer £15 million for Baines, he is gone.

Ta for the info on numpty - you prove again you can learn on TW. I think I meant c) A reckless, absent minded or unwise person and was making the point Baines isn't a numpty.

But I may well be one too. Time will tell.

Gollum treated the club and fans with disdain with his "will he, wont he?" lies — knowing full bleeding well where he was off to... even starting his role whilst still on a wage at this club, which only goes to reinforce Gollum is interested in Gollum and nothing more... Integrity and man of honour, my arse – a 24-carat £65k-a-week lackie.

If he or any other manager comes in for a current Everton player who hasn't put in a transfer request, I expect them to get told No with at least four f's involved. I also sincerely hope he wins fuck all at the Theatre of Wet Dreams and the Crimson Haemorrhoids are treated to his bottling it in games against the likes of Chavski and the RS... I'm still looking for odds for them to win fuck all this coming season.

The Bosman rule is the bain of mobility in football. And if it was not for that rule, we would all be fretting a lot less about losing the best left back in the world.

Proven winner!! Good God, I've heard it all now!!!

We're all assuming Baines will go, he might, but I would imagine it would be for the chance to win medals, not because of a few extra grand a week or because he's in love with Moyes and his brand of football. He might go IN SPITE of Moyes, not because of him.

I've toyed with that rationale myself. Whilst Moyes's general attitude was negative, you have to admit he gave Baines a licence to raid forward at every opportunity. What more could an attacking full back want?

There's the other side of it of course. From a team perspective, you can't be happy winning games 2-1 and desperately hanging onto the 3 points rather than cementing a victory in style.

It's a toughy. Like you said, if he goes, he goes for CL football and trophies. I wouldn't begrudge him that. I think there are very good arguments for him to stay and sign a new deal with us too. Fingers crossed.

He also stayed for 6 years; he obviously didn't hate Moyes. I know everyone is desperate to make out that Moyes was useless in all respects but there's a reason he's at Man Utd and it's not, funnily enough, because he plays terrible football and all his players hate him.

Moyes developed Baines into one of the best left backs in the world and gave him a free licence to get forward, I'm sure that, even if he doesn't like him on a personal level, on a professional level he has huge respect for him.

And if you ask most people outside of the band that didn't like David Moyes, you will find we don't actually have a reputation for the dour football some on here would have us believe we played. Not every game is going to be a joy to watch because that's not the way the Premier League is and even less likely with our small squad.

You are right there when you say we don't have a reputation for dour football. It surprises me how many fans of other clubs have a different image of Moyes's style of football.

To be fair to him, he played some decent stuff last season, when he seemed to go against his previous style of football, the football he had played in his previous seasons.

Last season apart, can you name me any games over the last, say, 4 seasons when you have come out of the game and thought "we played some great football there, we played them off the park"?

"You think he would leave the club with dignity after the send off he received and not try and poach our best players."

Leaving aside the red herring of when Moyes's new appointment commences, the fact is that he now works for Man Utd. He will rightly place their interests before any residual affection he may harbour for Everton. (Given that Man Utd are listed on the Stock Exchange he will be under a legal duty to do so.)

If I was a United fan, I would expect Moyes to go for the best left-back around and I would be annoyed if he did not.

He is a part of our past and we are a part of his. It is now the Board's responsibility to get the best possible price for Baines. After all, they are our future.... God help us.

"Right, Davey, come in with a low bid, and then I get the price up a bit, and it makes are fans think I haggled a good deal..." You get the drift... wouldn't surprise me.

2011-12 Sunderland (H) Fulham (H) Newcastle (H) Chelsea (H) Swansea (A)

2010-11 Birmingham (A) Blackpool (H) Wolves (A)

2009 -10 Sigma Olomouc (h) Aek Athens (H) Hull (A) Man City (H) Man U (H) Hull (H) Man City (A)

Can't remember much further back than that but it's all down to opinion, isn't it. The Premier League table says we've done alright over the last 4 years. Everyone else in football says we've been playing well the last 4 years (sometimes better than others like every other team). We have some of the best players we've had at Everton in the Premier League, like Baines, Pienaar, Arteta and Mirallas, one of which created more chances than any other in his position in Europe.

Our manager has just been poached by Man Utd. Yet there's a group of people who just like to blindly state that all of the football for all of the past 11 years has been so dour and tactically devoid that all the players must hate it. Seems strange then that most of them stay at Everton, talk positively about Moyes and, more often than not, the football got results.

That sort of talk is just as ridiculous as if someone came out and said all the football Everton has played for all 11 years has been fantastic. It's as equally untrue as those opinions that it's all been dour.

People can repeat it as much as they want in this attempt of memoriae damnatio but you will not succeed in getting the last 11 years consigned to some sort of dark period for Everton under a hated manager. Those who supported what he did know that it's just not true.

I think you boys should have a proper look at what I've written. It begins "What if". It doesn't begin "Baines doesn't really like Moyes" – it was a view from a different angle, and not necessarily mine; it was something to open up a debate which is going along the usual Moyes bashing route, something of which I have occasionally been guilty of myself, although I shall be eternally grateful to Moyes for giving us some pride back and lifting us from the perpetual relegation battle and I can see his good points as well as his bad.

It also suggests that the football, despite Baines being allowed to raid down our left flank seemingly at will, has been less than free flowing for much of Moyes tenure. Any of you want to dispute that? These pages are overflowing with the "Dithering, Dour Davey" comments and use anything to slag off Moyes's negative outlook.
"What if" , Gary, with respect, it is NOT horseshit. I have stood behind an incontinent Police horse in Gwladys St and it bears absolutely no resemblance.

The only reason we get called 'bitter' is because kopites are thick and can only use alliteration to explain themselves. Not only that, it's the only come-back they have, when you point something out to them.

Moyes is not your child. No matter how fantastic a man he is, I'm sure he has made some mistakes and done some wrong in his life. Some people on here will defend every single thing he's ever done. He's not god, so why call someone 'bitter' just because they make what many would call a valid point?

He's out of order for messing the club about when we were so close to top 4 and winning an FA Cup. Then he can't wait until july before making an approach for Baines.

He even put Man Utd and the New York stock market first when announcing he was going. Where was his famous decency then? Two games we had left, it made us look like Man Utd's poor relation, bending over to whatever they want.

Moyes was brilliant overall. But you can't call someone 'bitter' for saying what every neutral would think.

It's also held up by stats last season that I think, and I could be wrong, had us in the top 4 for creating chances. This would also argue against the "Moyes ruins strikers" BS spouted on here but that's another argument. Some of the chances Jelavic missed last season had nothing to do with Moyes making him work for the team!

The "Dithering Dave" tag came about due to his perceived lack of transfer dealings that the Moyes bashers liked to harp on. This despite them having no knowledge of our finances and the implications this had on Moyes although one thing generally accepted by 99% of ToffeeWebbbers is that we are skint!

And if you read my post properly, you will note that I wrote horeshit, I've stood behind a hore on the Reeperbahn in Germany as she takes a ..... okay probably best not to go there :-)

NB I know it's spelt 'whore' and have omitted the 'w' for purely comedic purposes, any people or events depicted in this joke are purely for entertainment purposes only and never happened for real.......... :-)

IF Moyes has made the offer and it's not from the Director of Bloody Football or whatever they call themselves, then he is also a cunt, twat etc.

It's also funny that Moyes is getting loads on here for apparently coming in for Baines yet we are advocating Martinez to do the same for Kone, Uncle Tom Cobbley and his cat. Strange.

I agree that the football last season and some of the previous one was of a standard that we haven't seen for years, something I alluded to in my first comment, and I wonder if it was Moysey showing just what he could do when he wanted to. You know, make himself more "saleable".

It certainly entertained me for much of the time, although, on occasions, the usual sitting back when we're 1 up with 15 minutes to go cost us dearly. Norwich, Fulham etc.

15 games in 4 seasons?

Sunderland,
Fulham
Swansea
Birmingham
Blackpool
Wolves
Sigma
Aek
Hull.

That is my point.

Hughes didn't just "come in for Lescott". He took the piss, treating Everton and Moyes with complete disrespect. The two situations are different.

There is business and there are gentleman's agreements. Both are compatible in this world, unless you believe that everyone is for themselves and morality and dignity has a place in this world anymore which is unfortunate.

If one can't find a suitable left back from all the clubs around the world, then he's got some work to do. For that record, I don't want any of Wigan's best players - if I was a Wigan supporter, I would feel let down. Having said that, you make a good point about United being a listed company and acting in the best interests of shareholders, but I would like to think there is some hope in the world that both could mutually exist.

Time to place 6 large eggs next to the back door to ripen ready for Man Utd at home I think!.... Give the Ginger One the welcome back that bid deserves!!

11 years in charge means nothing now, he's Man Utd manager. This bid proves the man does not respect his former employer. So we in turn should show him no respect.

COYB!

Some people think the football hasn't been that good; some people think it has. I think that, by the end, Moyes could not win either way. He'd have a series of 5 or 6 matches of great football and as soon as there was one tepid draw thrown in, everyone would be on about how he'd served up nothing but 11 years of dour football.

I've never heard anyone arguing that it's been 11 years of great football - because it hasn't; its a ridiculous argument that's equally ridiculous as someone saying that it's been 11 years of dour football, yet people seem to say the latter all the time.

I totally agree with your sentiments about the bid for Baines. I work in Lincoln and I mentioned the £12M bid to a couple of my mates at work – they are not Evertonians, but both of them thought that it was a very poor offer and one said that he thought it was bordering on being insulting!

I am sure that if, this time last year, Man Utd, Arsenal or Man City etc had made such an offer, David Moyes would have totally dismissed it. I am quite disappointed that he has shown the same lack of respect to Everton, that he accused Mark Hughes of doing during the "Lescott affair".

I did say last season he played more expansive football that went against the style of the previous 5-6 years. I won't use his first few years as he had a job on his hands to change what he was left with; whether that was to show prospective employers he could play differently, who knows.

If you watch and know football, without being patronising, you know for the majority of his stay he prefers to keep it tight and not take too many chances. That is proved by the amount of draws he gets. He won't take a chance to win a game in case, by opening up, he loses the game.

I'm not agruing that Moyes kept things tight; if he'd kept them tighter, we wouldn't have so many draws last season, but, yes, he did marshall the defense well and have a system within which to play.

I'm arguing against this ridiculous all-too-often pedalled notion that we've witnessed 11 years of dour hoofball football which is just not true. If we had, he wouldn't be managing Man Utd. The football has been fine, and outside of Man Utd, Arsenal, Cheslea and Tottenham under Redknapp it's been better than everyone else's football in the Premier League.

"If one can't find a suitable left back from all the clubs around the world, then he's got some work to do."

Moyes has made a big contribution to Baines's development into an England international; they appear to have a good working relationship; the player is by common consent one of the best in his position; he lives locally; Moyes can offer him a massive pay rise, a good chance of trophies and European football.

Why should Moyes not go for him; and for that matter, why should Baines not leave?

By the way, Mourinho prefers a style of football where he sits his teams in, to draw the opposition on to them, then breaks using quick incisive football. In fact, he keeps it so tight — have a look at how many goals Real Madrid scored in the league last year.

"I am quite disappointed that he has shown the same lack of respect to Everton, that he accused Mark Hughes of doing during the "Lescott affair"."

He hasn't. Hughes gave several provocative interviews about the Lescott deal, on one occasion stating that he was going to talk to "the people who make the decisions," ie, not Moyes.

In the present case, Manchester United have bid low for one of our players. That's all.

Mourinho is arguably the most defensive of the top top managers in football – his tactics in the 2011 Champions League first group match against Barca were disgraceful – he essentially played for a draw. I've never seen a Real team, or in fact any top team do that against relatively matched opposition.

His tactics at previous clubs also illustrate a desire to put defence first, ensure wide men put a shift in, and then think about attack. I don't see Moyes's tactics as too dissimilar (although Mourinho is on another level imo)...if we had more variety in the attacking positions, and a top striker, we would have scored more goals last season.

Our defence is good, although I think we need a top defensive midfielder... what we need is investment in a top striker, and some attacking depth to the squad. We would have finished higher last season if we had been backed by the board when we needed too... it was them, not Moyes, that let us down.

113 goals in 38 games, Jim. Imagine how many they would score if Mourinho threw off the defensive shackles.

That was a good post. Everton did play some excellent football last season and, but for the Board's ineptitude, we could have had an exceptional season. The squad depth just wasn't there.

It's frustrating to think that even half a dozen more goals from Jelavic could easily have put us in the top four.

Just to be clear on this: Moyes has made a bid for a player that Kenwright told him wasn't for sale when he was leaving and also asked him not to bid for; he's made the bid public; he's made the bid when we are about to enter new contract negotiations with the player; he's made the bid when he is still contracted to Everton as their manager; he's made a bid for the same amount which he apparently dismissed last year when he was Everton manager....

Yet he isn't being disrespectful?

Spot on. On both points.

Let's not forget, one of Moyes's USPs according to his supporters was his loyalty and dignity. And, he promised in one of his last interviews of the season that he wouldn't sign any Everton player when he takes over at Man Utd, that has turned out to be a lie.

In my mind, worst of all, due mainly to our idiotic board and chairman he has earned a month's pay for doing no work at all, spending his time hobnobbing with Giggs and meeting Ferguson a week before our final game against Chelsea.

Carl keeps going on about Hughes and Lescott-gate, but in my mind this is worse as he is trying to sign a player, at what is a frankly insulting price – a player that he works with until Monday.

Let Mr Sanderson defend him as much as he likes, I'm just saying he's wrong, Jamie.

I reckon some of you will still be banging on about this in 3 years time, god forbid making a case for how Moyes laid the foundations and was really responsible for our relegation and subsequent financial meltdown.

The point about the dour football is frankly ridiculous after last season. I'll agree that Moyes was a defensive-minded coach and that we watched some less-than-inspiring football in the early years (albeit at the result of raising our average league position with a negative net transfer spend). That said I don't recall watching too much scintillating stuff under Royle, Walker, Kendall (Mk 2/3) or Smith – I believe our FA Cup winning team were known as 'Dogs of War'.

The truth is that a large part of the playing style will be down to the quality of the players available – it's all very well trying to emulate Barca, Real and Arsenal but if you don't have Iniesta, Fabregas, Henry, Bergkamp, Ronaldo, Zidane, Messi, etc then the reality is the players aren't going to be able to compete. So how do you level the playing field with no money and a less talented team?

Moyes's solution was a great team spirit, strong work ethic and a hard-to-beat direct counter-attacking approach. Not always gorgeous to watch, but unarguably effective (and why he scooped LMA awards and the Man Utd job).

Above and beyond that, though, the last couple of years have been a completely different ball-game. Moyes repeatedly tried to bring in talented players on a tight budget (Arteta and Pienaar succeeded, Drenthe and Van der Mayde didn't) and steadily improve the team – he even tried to bring in ball-playing defenders (Heitinga worked for a while then didn't). With the addition of Felliani, Mirallas, Jelavic (last season), return of Pienaar and flourishing of Coleman, Osman (and of course the ever present Baines) he finally had a group of players (and even then first team only, no money = thin squad) to deliver on a more attacking, attractive vision. Hence, since January 2012 at least we've transformed into a far more attractive team to watch and indeed for the first half of last year created more chances (and I'd argue were playing better football) than anyone else in the league.

As for the other point, about Moyes making an approach for players, will you please just grow up. All that's happened is that one club have made a legitimate bid for a player at another club. There's been no evidence of underhand tapping-up, no public statements to try and unsettle the player and ultimately I don't really see the problem. Yes, the bid is low in reality and even lower in our eyes as fans, but, for the less business-minded of you, that's how negotiating works – you tend not to go in with your top offer straight away.

And of course it's likely that Moyes has had no real involvement in the price offered for the player at all. Unlike at Goodison, where every penny needs to be counted and all senior staff involved in each buy, at Old Trafford, it's more likely to be a case of him handing over a list of targets (including some that Ferguson and other senior officials will have suggested) and Man Utd's team doing the rest.

Oh, and as for comparisons between Moyes and Mourinho? Seriously? Are you really going to try and make a comparison there?

I think if you did just a smidgeon of fact-checking, you'd see that the Special One has had rather more resources play with over the years, in terms of money, higher profile clubs (CL regulars) and rather better, deeper starting squads.

Maybe give Davey a year or two with the level playing field of Man Utd before you call that into question...

Also, it's nothing like the Lescott saga. Hughes was a cunt of the highest order by constantly talking about Lescott to the press.

I also don't understand why you're upset about the low bid. It's called negotiating. We say No; they come back with a higher bid. We say No; and so it goes on.

One last thing: could you point me in the direction of this interview where Moyes said he wouldn't sign any Everton player for Man Utd? I'll take everything back that I've said if he did say that.

There, that settles it.

New Manchester United Boss Moyes Agrees "Hands Off" Deal Over Baines and Fellaini

Slate me even more if you like...

This is very simple: Moyes is now the manager of Man Utd irrespective is whether he is still being paid by Everton for a few more days. His job is to build the best Man Utd team he can, so he has every right to go for Baines. He owes us no loyalty. Just as Martinez has every right to go for any Wigan player.

One thing that could help you with the comparison: Do a smidgen of fact checking and see how much Mourinho spent in winning a domestic double and Uefa Cup in 2003 and in winning the Champions League in 2004.

You may not like it but my post seems accurate to me.

Since when has a new manager agreed not to go back to his previous club for players; it simply does not happen.

I haven't got a problem with Moyes arranging his desk tidy and giving his new office a move around whilst he waits for his contracts to switch over, but if this is true and he has put an insultingly low, formal bid in for our best player whilst still on our payroll then it's fucking outrageous.

Ross is right: it's wrong, particularly as they know our manager who starts on Monday is out of the country right now. Bang out of order.

If I said it on here then it could be a load of crap but, if it was discussed between Bill and Moyes, then it is true.

David Gill: "David, we need a new left back, Evra has been shite for years... That Baines bloke is great, we have been after him for ages.

Moyes: "Sorry, boss but I have agreed with BK not to go for Baines."

David Gill: "What on earth are you on about? Put a fooking bid in! You are the Man Utd manager now!!!"

Oh dear!!!

There is one post that takes the proverbial biscuit though (and out of 437, that takes some doing,) congrats Chris James: "(including some that Ferguson and other senior officials will have suggested) and Man Utd's team doing the rest."

Not to be outdone by that part, you go on to list all of his "achievements" in his full 11 years as some sort or warped defence of him wanting our Player of the Season, for a relative pittance. Even you cannot deny he has intimate knowledge of our finances, and has duly given insider information to his new paymasters.

Incredible.

This whole situation is just another farce, which adds to a long list of cock-ups from BK and his cronies.

Since the season as ended, Moyes will have had Man Utd's best interests at heart, what's to say he hasn't had any discussions with Baines about joining him at Old Trafford?

Only here at Everton could I ever imagine such a farcical situation. TBH nothing surprises me with this board anymore!

Totally right. Twelve months ago, Kenwright should have put a contract extension under Moyes's nose and said, "Sign here or piss off". Then, at the least, we would have got some compensation when Man Utd came knocking.

Perhaps Kenwright simply could not believe that Moyes would walk away? I couldn't say... But it is his fault, pure and simple, that we are in our present position — no compensation and Moyes trying to cherry-pick our better players.

Can't stand the phony now... so much I even hope the RS batter his Mancs when they pitch up at Anfield for an early season game.

Sorry, John, but I just don't buy it. Man United have made an offer, which is unquestionably derisory.

It is perfectly possible that Moyes was not directly involved on the financial side. United's officials will know that Everton are skint. (They won't need Moyes to tell them that; they could simply read the reports from last week's EGM.) Hence the low bid.

I agree 100%

If we suppose that the normal end-date for a contract is 30th June, then do we know that Everton and Utd didn't come to some arrangement to cover the last few weeks of Moyes contract?

Anyway, if Baines does leave, who are we going to get to replace him? I don't want some kind of makeshift defence and it worries me when I think of our back four being broken up, especially with Martinez's defensive record. No disrespect to our manager, like.

It's quite possible that Moyes identifies the player he wants and then the relevant official (Ed Woodward?) negotiates the deal.

Whether Everton are "about to start contract negotiations" with Baines is neither here nor there: Do you expect United to wait politely until these negotiations break down before making their move? I don't think so.

As for "sycophantic support", well, I invite you to re-read my previous posts. Nowhere have I expressed support for Moyes.

Do you think there's a yak farmer in Outer Mongolia that doesn't know the financial shit our board have gotten us into? Never mind our peers with connections in the Premier League!

Forget Moyes and his failings or his successes (whichever you prefer) and move on. If Baines goes to United then he goes. Simple. If he stays then he stays. Even simpler.

So what if the bid was derisory? It was an opening offer and was expected to be rejected. I'd expect the next 2 to be rejected also. Then if the money's right we can sell him. Even simplerer

Or in this case, Moyes has at least been extremely bad mannered, by not waiting until HE and Martinez officially take over. And then speaking to Martinez directly.

He is totally infallible in some people's eyes and that's not possible not matter how good you think he is... he makes mistakes, we all do!

That's why the Club are preparing us for Baines exit and trying to start a bidding war for him.

That's why the Club are preparing us for Baines exit and trying to start a bidding war for him.

I know our board are incompetent, but that is stretching the boundaries. A lot of people seem to have a lot of hate based on something that seems to me to be very unlikely to be the case.

Of course Moyes is still under contract and being paid by us.

Why the hell would Manchester United pay Moyes 6 weeks (or so) wages when they don't have too??

Here's what he said about Hughes over the Lescott situation:- "I've always tried to contact the managers and show respect to them in terms of transfers – and no matter how much money I might have to spend, I would always want to keep that up."

The point about Martinez speaking to Everton players is complete rubbish!

The point about Martinez is also not "rubbish". Moyes, and I'm not carrying a torch for the guy, has been roundly slagged off on these pages for "still being our manager" and conducting business for United. Martinez isn't OUR manager until 1st July but it sits easily with us for him to be conducting our business. If he IS our manager, why the hell is he arsing about covering some money spinning Cup competition on the other side of the world?

Moyes will have asked for Baines... Moyes knocked Man Utd back this year when they bid £12 mil... Man Utd have bid £12mil.

Not fuckin' rocket science.

Are you seriously suggesting that Man Utd's new manager is being undermined by someone at the club buying players that Moyes has not sanctioned?

Frankly, I think that suggestion is ludicrous.

Do you not think Baines's name was on that list?

If so you have answered your own question.

Ray, well fuck me... Man Utd are even controlling Moyes's ability to pick the phone up? Who would have known their control over Moyes would have stretched so far!

The ability of some people to keep defending Moyes over this is amazing. Alastair Campbell could learn a thing or too.

Ciaran, no I am not suggesting that. Read my post again.

John, it may be true but I'm sure there's a lot more that goes on behind the scenes that neither we nor the media are made aware of.

Paul, whether Baines was on a list or not isn't what I was saying, as such; the point is that I doubt very much if ANY manager, Moyes, AVB, Mourinho or Mike Bassett, England manager, sits down and discusses the costs, wages etc., with the player and his agent. If Moyes HADN'T had Baines on his list, I'd have been astonished. Baines, after all, owes much to Moyes for the way his career has flourished so it would be inevitable for Moyes to take him to Old Trafford, if he could.

John,
"Ray, well fuck me Man Utd are even controlling Moyes's ability to pick the phone up" — If that's your attempt at sarcasm, you should try a bit harder. The point about Martinez is this. A man who is NOT the manager of a club (Martinez) speaking to players, agents etc., or supposedly a man (Moyes) putting in a bid for players when he is still the manager of a different club. Neither could be seen to be ethically correct. Again, these columns have been littered with people calling for Martinez to "raid" his old club for McManaman or McCarthy without admitting that it is no different to what Moyes is alleged to have done.

As I've already said, I'm not carrying a torch for Moyes, I just acknowledge the better state we are in now to when he took over. He has, however, pissed on his chips with many of us if the man IS trying to prise Baines away, but in all honesty, I wouldn't blame him for trying.

I think you're losing track of the point... It is irrelevant who made the approach, the fact is that it has been made on behalf of Manchester United's incoming manager – that is Moyes... he obviously sanctioned it.

As for the associated point – I have no doubt that managers will give their opinion on valuation..

The approach has been an act of bad faith in my opinion... and the offer, which is apparently closer to £10 million, is derisory.

So when Moyes gets lauded for the players we have brought in at bargain prices, and lauded for the players we have sold on at a profit, in all reality someone else at the club should be getting all the praise because they would have done the financial side?

As for the so-called agreement between Billy and Moyes, that's Boys Pen Billy talking through his trumper. Do you honestly believe that Moyes WOULDN'T come in for the second-best left back in the Prem, a man who Moyes has nurtured for 6 years?

Brian, Do you think Moyes will enjoy the same degree of authority at Old Trafford that he did at Goodison? I don't.

I, personally, think Moyes was a lot more hands on here than he will be allowed to be at OT. And, yes, I further think that he had much to do with the signing of Cahill, Lescott, Arteta, Coleman, Baines etc., due to his own statements regarding the number of times he watched those same players before we bought them. Oh, sorry, he was "dithering", wasn't he...

As I've already said, he's pissed on his chips now, but I can't deny the good things he brought to this club.

"Supposedly, BK is seething over this bid being made, because of the agreement that had been made between the two of them."

So BK thought he had an agreement with Moyes? That would be the same BK who thought he had an agreement with NTL and sanctioned a load of expenditure on the strength of a deal that had not been signed. The same BK who thought he had an agreement for investment from FSF.

What have we done to deserve him?

t's as simple as that. If you want people to treat you with respect then treat them with respect. If we bid £3M for Hernandez do you you think Manchester United would be happy with that?They would probably regard it as insulting. And it's not any Anti Moyes bias so all the Moyes luvvies out there can cool it - I would feel the same about any £12M offer for Baines; be it from Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs or whoever.

'The same BK who thought he had an agreement for investment from FSF.'

This is not true. The Fortress Sports Fund was a blatant lie which has been admitted since. It was simply made up to get rid of Gregg. The official line was that it was (The lie) 'a means to an end'.

Don't forget that the terrible Mr Gregg wanted to build the King's Dock stadium which would have ultimately diluted blue Bill's shares.

Fair enough. So he's a fucking liar, then, rather than being merely useless.

It's hard to decide which is worse, really - the lies or the incompetence.

I suppose I could put up with the bullshit if he was doing a tremendous job of running the club. On the other hand, I don't think we'd be happy if he was honest about being incompetent.

He's actually an incompetent liar, isn't he? Let's face it, he's been caught out often enough.

Pity he's such a shameless twat.

You nailed it.