Everton face competition for Tim Cahill loan spell

Big fan of his, but surely it would be a backward step if we were to contemplate bringing him back?

He may be useful in the dressing room but no longer on the pitch.

The Prem has advanced and Tim has aged.

Think he'd be handy to have around and given he never had opportunity to say goodbye might well chip in with the odd goal. But no more then a bench warmer at most and would prefere to see Barkley get some game time

If Everton want new faces on the park, start with Vellios, Barkley & Duffy — they are fresh as a daisy... never been used.

Honestly feel he won't sign for any other premier league team apart from Everton even if it is a short term loan

Amazed that anyone thinks its a "backward step" to take Cahill on loan for 8 weeks ? He can still be a big impact player coming off the bench and if he scored 3 goals in those two months he'd be a bargain loan. I'd take him and hope to persuade Donovan to wander back as well. If we had Donovan I'd be less worried at this recurring hamstring mularkey with Mirallas.

Agreed with Mark #394 about both Cahill and Donovan. Cahill indeed as an impact sub, but also Donovan to cover for Mirallas, or allow us to mix it up a bit and play Mirallas further forward. I know Naismith is supposedly comfortable in that role, but he's yet to settle and there's no guarantee he will reproduce the pre-injury Rangers form.

Also, we've now won 2 in the last 10. In both of those games we've been behind, and in both cases come back to win when Fellaini has dropped back to allow something different up front (both times Tolos, but the point is we need to be able to mix it up and not just play Felli off Jelavic the whole time).

I'd have him back as an impact player, maybe if we need a goal. He would be a pest at set pieces, but as a team I think we have moved on from what he offers over 90 minutes, which I pretty much summed up in my 'pest at set pieces' comment.

Why waste time taking somebody on loan for 8 weeks when he will be suspended for the first 3 games. Better off looking for a more dynamic player he is likely stay for the rest of the season

Taking Timmy back would just be another player in Barkley's way.

As much as I have loved the memories, my head tells me it's time to move on!

Andrew #401 are you sure he would be banned and not served his ban at Red Bulls? After all, Joey Barton served his ban at Marseille - if he were to return to the Premier League, he would be eligible immediately.

Come January there will be a number of teams flexing their financial muscle to try to ensure a 4th place finish and the opportunity of Champions league Football. Wenger is under enormous pressure at Arsenal and I suspect will be forced into the transfer market, Liverpool will be looking to recruit at least one striker and Spurs will be their usual flush with cash. Elstone has already gone on record and stated that Everton will be likely to be looking at loan deals due to the perrenial lack of finances available, if Moyes is going to manage to guide Everton to a 4th place finish we need all the help that we can get. Bring in Cahill, Donovan and whoever else we can to freshen up the squad, provide competition and provide much needed impetus.

I can't see why people would not want Cahill back. We won't have to pay a penny for his services and it's another option we have if we need to bring a substitute on. As we know as well, he knows where the goal is.

Anyone been following how Cahill has been doing in the US?

Shane, I went to watch the Red Bulls away to Philadelphia, a game they won 3 0. Cahill was anonymous in my opinion, same as he was for us towards the end sadly. I think the best thing Tim Cahill can do is have a good rest during the MLS off season, he should be tearing that league up.

If he wants to come back then surely it will only be to Everton?
Would be a bit put out if he went to one of the other teams and then scored against us!

Any move for Tim should be solely based on giving us more options from the bench, as well as allowing us to give him the ovation he deserved before he left.

His record of one goal in fourteen games in the MLS is enough to show that he is no longer able to produce the goods at Premier League level and I'd much rather see further development in Naismith and Vellios from the bench.

I'd hate to see him for another English club though.

I loved Cahill in his pomp and his passion for the club, but I think his premier league time may have passed. What's more I think he would bring a retrograde step in terms of the style of game we're playing.
Tim is a battler, a scrapper with the ability to ghost into a dangerous space and leap like a salmon to maximise a high ball in the box. The pacey, passing game we're playing right now wouldn't suit him any more than it does Neville or Naismith.

Donovan is a different kettle of fish entirely, still with some pace, guile and an eye for goal, he's great cover for Mirallas and a back-up option for Jelavic.

Cahill coming back would result in someone dropping from the bench.. that person would likely be Barkley. That's how it would be a backward step.

If we have only got enough money for a couple of loan signings I cant see the point in bringing either Cahill or Donovan here.

I would think we"d be better off with a couple of players that would add to the squad "till the end of the season.

I think most people agree that the squad isn't big enough as it is and if these were our only loan signings we"d be back to square one for the last 2 &1/2 months of the season, bit pointless in my opinion.

Now if they"d come and play for free, then that might be a different story!!

Tiger Tim was awesome, but the team has blossomed since he left.

He lost that yard that gave him his goals, so I hope for his current team's sake he rests up in their close season.....he can't need the money surely ?

With respect to Barkley, I think he needs to go back on loan. It was a bizzare decision to bring him back and not play him.

But Cahill shouldn't take his place. He was a superb servant of this club, but didnt perform for the last 12-18months here. Donovan makes sense, because he has consistently performed well for us, and gives us depth on the right hand side of midfield, where we need it. We then need a central midfielder. If we went for a third position, it would be for a back-up striker or goalkeeper. I don't see the point in Cahill returning honestly (unless he wants to come for free).

Yeah, because the last thing we need is exciting potential as cover for midfield... After all were comin down with central midfielders.

I'd agree with that jim, although bringing back Barkley was the right thing to do given we were down on numbers. One more injury a couple of weeks back and he was going to start no matter what... probably, maybe, definitely (delete as appropriate).

I would be a liar if I said I haven't been a little disappointed that he hasn't got on despite the crappish run. I want to buy in, I want him to be our midfield genius.

However, let's get a couple of goals up and see what the kid can do with a bit of pressure off. A bit limp, maybe, but how many have wilted under the expectation?

If Cahill returns and fails to live up to expectations it will only sour peoples memories of him. After all, he was taking some stick before he left, if he starts to underperform just imagine how long it'll take for him to be on the receiving end again. Let's just keep all the good memories of him at his best.

Hard to see where Timmie would fit in now. His best days have gone and much like Thierry Henry at Arsenal it's only sentimentality that keeps his name popping up.

Ciaran... Barkley will be eaten alive if he plays central midfield for us at the moment...he may be able to function in an attacking midfield position, but Moyes reluctance to use him, even when Fellaini was injured, suggests he is not on the first team radar...hence my statement - 'it was a bizzare decision to bring him back and NOT play him.'

I also don't see why his exciting potential qualifies him for a role on the bench, instead of on loan... if we got several injuries, then we could always call him back. But as it is Gibson and Osman will play in front of him, and if one of those gets injured, Hitzelsperger will come in...and if two central midfield players get injured, then Fellaini will drop back, and someone will come into the AMC role. I don't expect Barkley to get more than a 10 minute cameo between now and the opening of the January window, and I think his development would be better served playing football in the Championship, instead of watching it in the Premier League.

Jim,

Your first sentence. How do you come to that conclusion?

Having watched him on several occasions: He doesn't possess the defensive ability yet, and he is too naive. We are also more attacking than previous seasons, and require central midfielders with experience/defensive capacity. Do you think he should be starting above Osman, Gibson, Hitzlsperger then?

Terry (#410):

We won't have to pay a penny for his services

What planet did you just step off of????! He's on loan, therefore we don't have to pay him a penny?!?!?! A classic Facepalm moment!

As we know as well, he knows where the goal is.

On last evidence, we know he knows nothing of the sort. Go on astound me: how many did he score in an entire season while on Red Bull duty???

TC can come back to say a proper goodbye, but we need to spend every penny wisely and his wages would not be justified even if the three-match ban has been served in the US.

On the other hand, Donovan would be a great addition but it would only work if we could have him for longer than the usual 4-6 weeks. I also think that Jelavic would score more goals with Landon in the team – look at the partnership that Donovan and Keane had for the Galaxy.

I'd rather have him in midfield than Hitzlsperger or Neville. He wouldn't get into the first team but at the height of our injury crisis in midfield he could have walked in there. He's also still probably got an ounce of the old magic left and with the chances we're creating he might even sniff out a few goals for us.

At the Red Bulls, he was mostly played in a 4-man midfield. So tough for him to utilize his major strength. He often played in a holding role. Still really aggressive on set pieces both defensively and offensively and gave everything for the cause.

With the highest payroll in MLS, not surprisingly the coach got fired after they were beaten in the playoffs.

I've never seen lack of 'defensive ability' as being one of his problems.. in fact he did well covering defensively in the games I seen him play for Sheffield..

But anyway, say that were true.. Osman has little defensive game and Svholes has zero..

Ian #441 "However, let's get a couple of goals up and see what the kid can do with a bit of pressure off".

The way we're playing at the moment, gifting the opposition goals etc, he won't get off that bench all season!

Cahill knows us, the way we do things and we are going to need extra bodies to maintain things over the the season.

Used in the right way adding Cahill short term to give the squad a boost could be a smart move.

He's lost the fizz that made him a threat joining on from mid or playing off the striker and is having to play deeper as he gets older, no surprise there its happened to much better players than Cahill.

A couple of months of having him as an extra option off the bench and starting the odd game, therefore gving us the option of rotating our midfielders a bit more by possibly playing Cahill in a deeper mid role would be helpful.

For example, Ossie could probably do with a break at some stage. I personally believe we would be nowhere near where we are now if it wasnt for him this year. Small squad, injuries to Gibbo/Neville and Osman has been there every week, putting in consistent performances.

Hes played virtually every game and whatever your opinion of him he puts it in. He is going to need a rest, nothing major but a little rest both mentally and physically to retain freshness for the rest of the season. Its easy to forget hes 31.

If we don't do something along those lines in mid and up top especially, I can see us dying on the run in. For example, I think we are all aware that Jelavic has a very hard job up there, works his bollocks off and it is impossible to maintain your sharpness over the season, its part of the reason whyv the goals have dried up. He could do with a breather at some point as well, or just some fucking help!! Cracking striker though.

So, for me there could be upsides to Cahill and if its an option I don't see too much wrong with it. I personally doubt he would be coming in and starting in his old "Cahill role" immediately, his time as that player is finished and Moyes knew it, plus Fellaini is more effective than Cahill was.

However, he would be very handy to have on the bench as games approached the last 20 mins, we are very effective in that stage of the game anyway, and it could give us an increased edge, just a couple of points as its going to be very tight.

Also it would take a bit of the strain off some of our most important players in centre mid, Gibbo(who came straight back in against Arsenal and played longer than ideal) and Ossie. Furthermore it seems we rushed Mirallas back for yesterday. Ultimately, over the season that kind of "maxing out" of the squad will bite us on the arse.

Cahills worth a dart for me.

I understand the permanent worry that injuries and suspensions might scupper our season, but I can't agree that fatigue will play such a major role.

If the team is winning more games than it is losing tiredness won't come into it, we must as Evertonians stop this constant self-fulfilling prophesy that we can't compete for all of the season.

We have proved in the last 12 months or so that when the team puts its mind to it they are capable of producing positive performances and positive results.

Peanuts admitted somewhere today that some of those dropped points stemmed from over-confidence by some of the players and IMHO David Moyes has to address how to get the players to perform against every side in the division not just the high-profile ones.

This season might be a make or break one for a variety of reasons and Evertonaians talking down our chances or making excuses for failure will not help and will only justify what those media men have decided is our fate.

This is a season when we as supporters need that defiant attitude we had when our backs were really against the wall in 94 and 98 but this time there may be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow rather than mere survival.

Osman has experience though, which Barkley certainly does not, and I would still take Osman's defensive game above Barkley's. As I said before, would you really play Barkley above any of the 3 fit contenders for central midfield at the moment? I'm guessing not. Given the safer options available, and the likelyhood that Fellaini would be dropped back if we were missing two of 3 aforementioned players (assuming Naismith would come into his favored second striker role in place of Fellaini) , I think there is little to gain from keeping Barkley on the bench, when he could be playing on loan. Next season, with a good amount of lower division football under his belt, I think Barkley will be ready for a more active role in the first team squad.

Patrick, I disagree about tiredness. Jelavic is a prime example at the moment, as he clearly needs a rest. Similarly, the dropping off of Cahill was a prime example of the exertions league and international football can have on a player over time. We don't have the squad of Arsenal, City or United...we can't rotate players like they do. If we don't add to the squad in January, then tiredness and fatigue related injuries will affect us in the second half of the season. The only plus side is that, whilst we have the smallest squad of the Champion League contenders, we don't have their European commitments.

Jim, or anyone for that matter-

Not being confrontational here. Would you start Barkley in front of Naismith out wide when Mirallas is unavailable?

I realize it's not his preferred position. But Naismith hasn't been a world beater out there. And it would mean time on the pitch for Barkley.

When I've seen Barkley play I've thought we've got a good one. It just kills me the poor kid can't get any time, especially being recalled only to sit.

And for that reason I'd say Tim should stay in NY.

Have to agree with all those saying that bringing Cahill home would be a backwards step. He's a modern icon at the club, whose arrival coincided with our upturn in fortunes following a decade of depressing stagnation, and whose goals (perhaps only Scholes had better timing as a goalscoring centre midfielder in recent years) and, just as importantly, passion restored pride in our club. But his time as a top Premier League footballer has passed.

The truth is that as we became a better footballing side in the last few years, Cahill became increasingly anonymous over the course of 90 minutes – and while this could be forgiven so long as he was popping up with important goals – by the end the goals had dried up too. His record at New York suggests that he hasn't got the knack back, so I really don't see what he can offer us on the pitch anymore. He doesn't fit with our new more expansive footballing direction. Like everyone else I'd hate to see him elsewhere, but he could actually probably still do wonders for a West Ham or Stoke.

As for the Barkley situation - the kid must be depressed at being hauled back to sit on the bench yet again. He was just starting to hit top form at Sheffield Wednesday. Dave Jones made him a big part of the team, and after a stumbling first few games he found his feet and started earning rave reviews and banging in a few goals. Moyes calls him back – No Neville, no Gibbo, no Fellaini against Norwich – central midfield decimated – and Barkley still can't make the team. Moyes actually goes out of his way to sign up an unfit 30 year old who was released from a relegated West Ham 18 months before and who had barely played since... That is how little faith Moyes has in him.

Brendon Rodgers is, it goes without saying, a clown – but you have to admire the faith he has shown in Raheem Sterling. Here is a player, like Barkley, with prodigious raw talent, who Rodgers has entrusted with a place in his side. He's had some poor matches, but Rodgers persevered and he has fast become a fantastic little player. Like all 18-year-olds should, the boy plays without fear. Can you imagine an 18-year-old playing under Moyes playing without fear? No chance – because he would know that – just like Barkley last year – you can put in near Man of the Match displays in your first two professional games, have pundits putting together detailed highlights packages on Match of the Day showing what a talent you are, but if you dare give away a penalty against Blackburn in Game 3 then you'll be banished to the reserves for 18 month ...

He's gone from keeping Fellaini and Arteta on the bench for the first match of the season last year, to finding himself below Hitzlsperger in the pecking order this year. If Moyes isn't going to use him then he should have left him at Wednesday to win back the confidence he's had stamped out of him here.

I wouldn't personally Jamie, as I am a firm believer that youths can damage their development/confidence long term by being played too early/out of position. I think that, if Barkley played on the right, he would be at least as ineffectual as our other out of position options, and would simply come in for the same criticism that Naismith has, albeit censured slightly because of his age, and the hope in all of us that he comes good. I also think Naismith, whilst lacking the technical ability to perform at the level we are looking for (i.e top four pretenders), at least puts in a shift, and finds himself in goal-scoring positions. I'm not yet sure whether Barkley would manage that in the Premier League, in an unnatural position.

Personally, when Mirallas is out, I'd stick Coleman there, with Hibbert at right back (my first choice right back irrespective of whether Mirallas is playing or not). Coleman isn't a great choice either, but I think he is closer to a right mid than Naismith, Osman, Anichebe or any other options we can come up with. But whatever happens, we have to address the right hand side in January. I'd almost prioritize a natural right sided midfield option (especially if they can play up top as well) over a central midfielder. Donovan aside, who I'd love to see return, who else is out there and available? Sturridge? Chelsea will likely sign another striker, so he may become available. Marin perhaps? Scott Sinclair is right footed I believe, and will likely go on loan (Although he again prefers coming from the left), could he be an option? it is difficult, as there do not seem to be many obvious options about.

And Alex, one point I would make about Sterling. I think it is much easier to take a risk on a winger, than a central midfielder. As I was suggesting earlier, I think naivety, and a lack of defensive capacity (given our attacking style this year), is very problematic in a central midfield position, whereas it is far less important in the wide areas. Liverpool also had next to no wide options in their side. I mean, without Sterling on the right, who can Liverpool put there? Their mis-spending has given them all manner of squad issues.

Also, with respect to playing without fear....unfortunately, it seems to be disappearing out of the game somewhat. Players in this league generally seem to hold the ball up now, instead of attempting to go round people, and it seems like many have some of their flare conditioned out of them. Remember Rooney when he first burst through? As good as he is when he is on form, rarely, if ever, have I seen the same freedom Rooney showed in that infamous Bolton performance in a United search.

Jim – you're quite right about Rooney. He was certainly a youngster who thrived under Moyes, and never looked more dangerous, hungry, and yeah fearless, than in those early days with us. Rooney was a phenom who would have made it under any manager, but Moyes handled him particularly well. It's just his treatment of young players recently that's left me bemused though. I don't know if he was burnt by Rooney leaving before his time, or stung by seeing prospects like Vaughan and Rodwell break through only to succumb to constant injury worries, but his youth policy at the moment just seems bizarre.

Take Barkley; Vellios; Junior; Duffy; and McAleny over the last year or so - he seems happy to give them games at an early age – generally (with the exception of Junior v Leeds) they've performed very promisingly, but then he suddenly drop them back into the reserves for months on end just as they're finding their feet. It just seems confusing – it's like he impulsively bets big on someone, then immediately takes his chips off the table before he's won or lost.

I take your point about Sterling and wide positions needing less defensive responsibility - which is why I understand why Duffy isn't in the side despite playing so well last year. But that's why I found that Norwich match so frustrating – Fellaini was out – the attacking slot behind the striker was free, no real defensive responsibility needed there – Barkley called back and in form playing in that same position for Wednesday, and instead of going for it, he shuffles the pack, fills round holes with square pegs and leaves him out.

It's not fair to bash Moyes when he's put together our best team since the 80s, but I think as he's got more adventurous on the pitch, he's got a lot more cautious in regards to youth prospects – a bit of a worry considering our long-term financial future might depend on us bringing a few through.

"As I said before, would you really play Barkley above any of the 3 fit contenders for central midfield at the moment?"
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No I wouldnt. However that's not the point i'm making...however a single injury takes us into the realm of needing back up, and into a precarious situation..

I'd also have a tendency to give him game time in matches where certain players are clearly having a mare.. That's what substitutes are for..

It’s all hands an all hands on deck season for us.

If we manage to make 4th, I’m pretty sure it won’t be by much of a margin - Every point counts, which is why we have all been extra cut up about some of the stupid (and unjust) points we have dropped.
Norwich, reading and Newcastle……… ouch!

Cahill really embodies the spirit of the team. He has been a loyal soldier for us, I know it’s not exactly visionary in terms of progress, but the moment is the moment, and If Tim and Landon can add even a single point – welcome aboard.

Alex @465, when Tim was at his best his goals were priceless to us, but to to claim that only Scholes could match it is a bit optimistic, Lampard and Gerrard were way ahead of both of them and contributed more elsewhere than Tim.

Tim was basically a deep lying forward and I don't think it's any great coincidence that we have seen hugely improved team performances now that we are not accommodating his shortfalls elsewhere. Fellaini is a much better all round player and capable of scoring many more types of goals and although I don't have the stats I wouldn't be surprised if his assist record is way ahead too.

Not sure we can afford to pay tims wages for the sake of nostalgia. There will be other younger players who could come in till the end of the season and if they shine a la arteta and pienaar then maybe longer.

As for Barkley he would develop more going back to the championship and starting games rather than warming the bench hoping for 10 mins here and there which he might not even get. Send him to a promotion chasing team, see how he does and hopefully he will be ready for next season, in the same way Coleman shone after his time with blackpool.

Alex I wouldn't praise Rodgers too quickly for his handling of Sterling. He's played a lot of games this season as a wing forward both domestically and in Europe. How many goals has he got? One less than our goal shy Pienaar who spends most of his time cutting into centre mid anyway and rarely has a shot. 2 less than the unfairly branded hapless Naismith who has had a lot of bench time, and a whole load less than Fellaini. What's more the lad has notably slumped in form recently and is now in a massive contract dispute because he thinks he is worth the big bucks.

Add htis to Michael Owen's interview recently about how he was worn out by playing too young for Liverpool whilst Gerrard who was held back has had a long career. If Hitzlsperger is getting onto the pitch ahead of Barkley (lets forget that they don't even play the same position for a start) then Moyes obviously doesn't think he's ready. If he came on it would never be in the holding role, that means he could only replace Osman or Fellaini. There haven't been many games when you would want to drop either of them or could afford to during the game because they've been so tight. You could argue he could play outwide but he'd be out of position. Say what you want about Naismith, he's no Mirallas but he tracks back and has scored 3 goals. Does Barkley do this, could he be trusted to cover for Coleman and track Aaron Lennon or Nasri or Walcott? If Barkley was as good as we all want him to be then he'd probably already be playing, as it is maybe Moyes is right for once to send him on loan or have him on the bench.

Alex, I agree on Barkley...when Moyes brought him back, with Fellaini suspended and several injuries, I thought he brought him back to start....that he hasn't been involved since. I do not quite understand the reasoning. Perhaps it was a contingency plan, perhaps he used him in training and didn't believe he offered enough...I don't know, but it seems strange that he has remained on the bench.

The above reason Ciaran is why I think Barkley should be out on loan, instead of sitting on the bench. Clearly, from the matches that have passed, Barkley is not a priority sub...and if we need a goal, it makes more sense to drop Fellaini back, whilst retaining his aerial/attacking threat albeit in a deeper, more censured position, and bring on Velios or Anichebe when he is fit, or Naismith now we seem to have Mirallas back (or thereabouts). If we get a couple of injuries or suspensions to midfielders, then we can always recall Barkley. But really, if we have three senior midfielders, plus the option of dropping Fellaini back (which relegates Barkley to a fifth choice cm imo), should he be in the squad? in my opinion, his development would be better served my going back out on loan, and playing first team football at a lower level. I do expect though, that we will add another central mid in January, which will lead to him going back on loan anyway.

Think about this way, who is a better player. Cahill or Barkley?

People seem to forget that loans actually cost money too, we might even pay his wages, and god knows what he's on in New York.

With this new brand of football, Barkley is better suited. And why would we want to pay some money for somebody who would only be an impact player on the bench? Cahill wouldn't even offer any competition.

If we get Donovan for example, he would be genuine competition for the two winger spots, Cahill wouldn't for Fellaini's spot, or any of the two centre midfield spots.

What I'd rather do is get a centre midfielder on loan then Barkley go back on loan, and that is not Tim Cahill. It could be this Belgian guy, but everyone always says him, I've never even seen him play.

Hopefully Moyes can bring another Arteta or Pienaar out of the bag in the loan market in January, because we need some more competition.

I am surprised to see so many clubs apparently interested in him. Wonder how much of this is true or simply his agent trying to generate another bumper pay cheque simply for turning up to a couple of training sessions and warming the bench.... I really find it hard to believe that Spurs would be at all interested.

At the end of the day, he was a great servant to the club, albeit a long time ago. He was utter gargage during the last 18 months he was with us and I still have nightmares about the first half of the 11-12 season! So, from a performance perspective, I cannot for the life of me see how he would improve us on the pitch, let alone who's place he would take, even if he were still good enough.

Thanks for the memories TC, but let's not spoil them fella.... by all means join 'Arrys Revolution and hoover up some cash at QPR, whilst helping them ease back into the Championship...

Matt T (#455) – on current form... No. However, with the cup and some easier games, I'd hope he get some minutes, and a start at Hereford or wherever.

Sunderland seems to be his destination, so unless we get them in the FA Cup again, unlikely we'll see him.