Sir Alex wants Moyes, not Guardiola.

No surprise in this story which will fully unfold in January, my suspicion is that Moyes wont sign a new contract beyond this one and then he will go come the summer. The Fellaini suspension will also put paid to this. Ian Holloway anyone?

Ian Holloway? April 1st already?

'how Moyes has outfoxed him and many other teams over the years......'

Eh?

Being cynical I'd also say Fergie wants his replacement to be good.... but not too good. He's got a reputation and place in history to protect after all......

Mike - bang on. It's the Busby scenario all over again when, although he'd gone, his succesors were undermined by old pros whispering poison in the old man's ear outside of Old Trafford itelf. Whoever comes in, his first job is to clear out the old guard. But that's enough about them...

Martinez is the only man for me... He's used to working with a shite budget worse than ours, and plays good football. I'd love to see what he could do with our squad.

ps: He could bring that James McCarthy lad... pure class, he is.

Ian Holloway? Why not go the whole hog....Mark Hughes.

The Mancs don`t want a new Chairman as well,do they?

Just find the money for players, Kenwright, and Moyes will stay.

Fingers crossed we keep Moyes
Why all this speculation/suspicion around the (upcoming) MF suspension?
Fingers Cross

If Moyes's goes and I suspect he would if approached, he's likely to take Round & Co with him. Kenwright will go for the cheap option but popular !!! option in bringing Reid, Weir and Ferguson together as !st team manager, Asst and Coach.

Mourinho or Moyes... umm.... that's a tough one. Let's see - Mourinho - 15 trophies (Champions League 2 times, Uefa Cup 1 time, Premier League 2 times, Serie A 1 time, La Liga 1 time, FA Cup 1 time, etc,). Moyes......wait... I am still counting.. run out of fingers...

Seriously, I don't mean to be harsh on Moyes. He has done wonders for us on an impossible budget - we all know that and are grateful to him for it. We would not grudge it if a bigger job came his way (let us face it, the Man U job IS presently bigger than the Everton one).

But, I am sorry, I just don't see that happening. Sure, he has not had much money to spend - at the same time, he has had hardly any pressure to win. Moyes has many qualities which are good for a club like Everton (at this point) - honesty, frugal spending, ability to get the best out of his players, fighting spirit, caution, ability to forge a team spirit, discipline, etc, etc. However, his shortcomings would be quickly exposed and not be forgiven at a club like Man U - tactical naiveté, playing favourites week-in and week-out, lack of belief, inconsistent ability to turn-around games, etc, etc.

I also think he is too much of a gentleman and has too much pride to turn his back on a club that would have given him 12 years at the helm without winning a trophy for them.

My two pence....

Of all the club who would possible poach Moyes, I would consider Arsenal as one of the more likely.

He can work within a budget, great at finding a transfer bargain, the expectations are less then at Man Utd, and they are club who show loyalty to their mangers and they let their manger manage.

I know many on the forum don’t share my sentiment, but if Moyes puts pen to paper for us, I will breathe a sigh of relief. I’m really enjoying some of our football this season, some great flowing passing movement, and as well the guy is full of integrity. Imagine being managed by some clown like Warnock, or ‘dell-boy’ the bung Alladyce or some other like this.

I think we can take a lot of pride in our manger. He qualities and shortcomings get mentioned a lot, but one which I have not yet seen anybody mention is that, he is able to lose a star player and not have the team collapse (often even advance). And for us, unfortunately, that is a very necessary quality.

The shareholders and fans will demand a name with pedigree, a shoestring also ran isn't for them

Our next manager, whenever that may be, will be Pip.

Have said that before myself Al. Neville will be getting groomed to take over when Moyes has gone.

Man Utd are already top dog in the premier league. The only way is DOWN!!

DM would be on a hiding to nothing trying to keep them at the top. Everton is a much safer option with no great expectations and Scrooge watching the purse strings. He is now at this time of the year the Bob Cratchit of the league.

I fully expect DM to stay where its safe for the rest of this season at least and if he gets no money then its wait and see. He has done a wonderful job considering the financial restraints, no club has done better all things being equal.

The present side (first eleven) continues to more than punch its weight and all he needs to bridge the gap between us and Man Utd is a few bob.

Does anyone know if Neville has his coaching badges yet or not?

Don't think so, but Reidy has!

I don't think Kenwright is foolish enough to appoint Neville manager before he has been tried and tested elsewhere. Similar experiments have failed frequently at Premier League level.

When Moyes does go, I suspect to either Arsenal, Celtic or possibly still Spurs (if AVB implodes) then my personal choice would probably be Martinez, though Laudrup looks an interesting option early on in his Premier League career. People taunting the likes of Holloway and Di Canio are having a laugh.

Sam (572)

Agree with you re: Martinez. Think he's got the potential to go to the very top. Was relieved when he didn't get the reds job.

When Moyes goes, I would like to see Martinez too, I don't think he is better than Moyes but he got Swansea playing and tries to get Wigan playing well. My only worry is that Wigan have been on the end of some almighty tonkings in this league from several teams, We just get tonked by Arsenal.

My choice if Moyes went would be Slaven Bilic — top class!

Moyes taking over Man U is the stuff dreams are made of. What has he possibly done to justify taking over there? Despite our 'good' start to the season, during which we've drawn all our games, for the most part Moyes' only achievement has been to keep us in the division. If that's all Man U now aspire to do then he's the ideal candidate.

I fully expect Moyes to sign another ludicrous 5 year deal in January. He'll receive more money and bonuses to finish 7th or 8th every year and bottle it in big games then peddle his glass ceiling excuse every time we get knocked out of another cup competition. Can't wait!

Alan, things could get a lot worse than us coming 7th every season. Not saying we should not aim higher but consistent top 7 finishes is what a lot of clubs in the same financial position as Everton dream of.

Alan #579

Rafa, who presided over the Shite's demise as regular top 4 contenders, has been given the Chelsea job. AVB, who was an abject failure with Chelsea, re-appears at Spurs... and Brendan Rogers, whose CV is blanker than most, is given the hot seat with the Shite.

And you think Moyes to United is a stretch?

I can't see anyone signing for us in January while Moyes's future is still not sorted out.

Duncan Ferguson.

No previous top flight management experience but I'm pretty sure we'd get more refereeing decisions go our way and players would sign their contracts when they're told and never speak to the media about when they want to leave our club!

I'd be made up if Moyes fucks off to Man U. Perhaps we could get a decent manager then who actually aspires to win. Man U would be left watching the tripe Moyes serves up.

Stubbsy and Big Dunc partnership for me.

I'd put my house on Moyes not going to Man Utd though, they would want someone with proven Champions League know how and experience.

So, the best solution should be: Moyes goes to ManU, and then we bring in Mourinho to replace him. I don't mind the Special One to be bigger than the club for a few years if he can bring CL, PL, FA Cup + League Cup all to Goodison Park's trophy cabinet !

Adolf Ng (#650) Yeah because the $$$$ Mourinho had to spend had nothing to do with what he has won.
WOW, it's like all of a sudden everything is becoming so clear........ why didn’t we just think of this before? and, all that grey matter to boot, maybe Mourinho should consider to appoint you as his you has his deputy when he takes over. Fuck, the other teams wouldn’t know what hit them.

Steven a small point but Mourinho achieved plenty at Porto with fuck all money

True enough he is great manager, I take your point, but it’s been a while since he has tried managing a club with no money, and ‘player retention’ was a major factor in his Porto success, and (though no fault of his own) Moyes has had very bad luck in regards player retention.

Could he do it again with Porto? The Portuguese league probably yes, but the CL, I am not so sure
As well, in respect of domestic competition, Porto are bigger than Everton.

'Moyes has had very bad luck in regards player retention.'

Maybe. In the sense that Anichebe remains at the club.

Ray Roche, the whole hog would have to be Steve Bruce surely. There's a perverse streak in me that would almost like to see it just for the fun of it.

What's the silver fox Mike Walker doing these days (only joking)

Steven, unfortunately that's how the beast has evolved now... and part of the reason I can't see a club like Man Utd taking Moyes: the fans want instant success and a name, the chequebook clubs won't take a gamble like Moyes.

Used to think pigs would fly before Moyes got the Utd job but as Brendan @ 583 says the merry go round is running out of ponies.

I mean Benitez at Chelsea ???

The other thing about chelsea is they've shown managers aren't important if you splash the cash, ditto City with the balloon Mancini.

Being the original big spenders Utd might well prefer a non confrontational caretaker as long as he's not a fool with their cash. In reality this is what SAF has been doing for years - cherry picking the PL.

Under these circumstances I can see Moyes having his supporters there.

Mourinho took over a squad at Porto, with the likes of Deco, Carvalho, Postiga already there. He then signed 6 players the season after they finished 3rd, so its simply not true to state he achieved things at Porto with fuck all money.

Yes, its a great achievement that Porto won the CL, without a doubt. But I personally factor in who they beat to get there. They beat Lyon in the quarters, Deportivo in the semi's and Monaco in the final. Not exactly Europe's elite. And as for Chelsea, he spent 70 million quid in his first season. Then at Inter, he spent 50 million Euros before the season started, which was on top of inheriting a team that were domestic champions.

The guy is a great manager, there is no doubt. But to suggest he does it on a sell to buy policy as Moyes does is quite frankly ridiculous. He's never had to 'balance the books' in his entire career.

Dan, none of those players cost a fortune, they also knocked out Man U which you have conveniently left out and the "minnows" Lyon included Essien in its ranks, Deportivo had Pandiani scoring for fun and Monaco had Evra and Morientes, to belittle the fact they got as far as they did is a piss take.

I want Moyes to stay with something resembling a reasonable budget. I'd guess that's what holding up his re-upping by now. At some point, what's the point?

But if he does go, Screw all these usual suspects. Look across the Atlantic, Kenwright, to Bruce Arena. He's a manager in the English football sense of the word and has worked on budgets way tighter than Moyes's; turning two different franchises into to repeat champions.

The US amateur-hour shambles he took over after the 1998 WC and turned into a quarter-final team by 2002 should have had him fielding EPL offers a decade ago. Of course, he is American. Because of that, WC 2002, his repeated success at building champions from youth leagues to University leagues to MLS with 2 different clubs might not tally.

I agree Gavin, none of them did cost a fortune. But even still, I cannot remember Moyes EVER having the luxury of bringing in 6 players without having to sell a star to fund it.

You can name any of their players you like, the fact remains the same. Lyon, Deportivo & Monaco have never won the Champions League. I will say it again, they are not considered 'Europe's elite'. In my opinion, Porto had a lucky break to face teams of that level in the quarters, semis and final.

Di Matteo? He spanked us with WBA at Goodison a few years back. I'd take him.

And knocking out Man U Dan? How did little Porto manage that? How did Athletico manage to batter Man U home and away with much cheaper players? The money argument only stretches so far.

Kieran Fitzgerald @688

Kieran, there's a whole team of crap managers and ex-managers who frequently, and for bewildering reasons, get jobs on pretty good salaries for regular failure or for producing teams playing the sort of anti-football that would have Moyes taken out and shot. Bruce, Hughes, Allardyce, Coyle, Pardew, in fact if you go back a few years and see some of the abject failures who have feathered their nests and now have a life at their Spanish villa or on the golf course you'd be surprised. (or maybe you wouldn't)....
Gregory,Curbishley, Dowie,Coppell, Strachan,Brown, Burley, Wilkinson, Souness, Evans, Barnes,Southgate, Roeder, Shearer, the list is endless. OK, maybe one or two have enjoyed a brief moment of success but they are now invariably out in the footballing wilderness. If you call a villa in Portugal or Spain a wilderness. Lasting success is a rarity, in fact, compared to that shed load of incompetents Moyes has been little short of a saint. (lights blue touch paper and retires to a safe place)
Someone mentioned Reid. Much as I like the guy he's unemployed. Probably for a reason.

And before anyone points it out, I KNOW Wilkinson had some success at Leeds but not playing football I'd want to watch regularly.

It has to be somebody like Martinez who at least has a vision on how to play the game in the right way. Swansea seem to have done OK with Laudrup so maybe that type of appointment would suit our needs.

Of course David Moyes could still be here for the next few seasons.

Gary Neville just said he doesn't know what's going on at Arsenal letting players get down to the last year of their contract - "it's a footballing no-no".

Can't wait till someone in the switches on to Moyes antics, or is the Utd job a done deal?

(cue Mission Impossible music)

in the media

Ray agree with you completely. My remark about Bruce was tongue in cheek but on a serious note, how the hell does he keep getting work? I would agree with you in particular about Peter Reid. You get the impression he's not that much more in touch with the modern game than Dagleish is.

James, good idea in ways about Arena but how clued in would he be to european football and players.

Neville has a point, but a manger are different to players, in that they are not commonly transferred. If however he was still in contract they would have to compensate us – so there is some overlap, but still not the same as a player.

Bruce Arena, I know don’t why but the thought makes me laugh, EFF Everton football franchise, and we could begin every game like a WWF event where Bruce comes out to some blaring loud music and starts high-fiving all the fans, and he could attack other mangers in the dug-out. I’m just joking, I honestly don’t mean to put the guy down, I don’t even know who he is, but by the sounds of things his achievements are very impressive. And we would (should) have to think outside the box.

anyway........ I think we should cool the talk of a Moyes successor. As of yet we have no solid reason to feel he won’t sign. As well, people who feel he is purposely running down his contract to get to united, are implicitly assuming that this would be Ferguson’s last season - which I don’t think it is. Personally I hope he signs.

"a source close to a senior player" - newspaper speak for made up bullshit.

If Moyes left, which players would he take with him?
Baines, possibly Fellaini, maybe Jagielka?

Next manager would have to start all over again, and we'd have to be patient again.

I hope Moyes stays, but my off-the-cuff shortlist would be:
Gus Poyet / Roberto Di Matteo / Paulo Di Canio

Too lazy to see if this actually applies to any of them, but an eye for a bargain is essential, obviously

Di Canio is a fucken head the ball.....he would probably fall out with all the players within a month.....be interesting though.

I think Moyes and Kenwright have done a terrific job of convincing the fans and wider football "community" that finishing around 7th or 8th in the league is success. To think Joe Royle was literally hounded out of Goodison, despite 6th and an FA Cup, yet Moyes hasn't come close in ten years in charge.

There has been long periods of his tenure when the football has been utter garbage. Man Utd wouldn't touch him with the proverbial barge pole. Jose or Pep will be the next manager at OT.

I think Moyes will eventually end up at Celtic, but again whilst Rangers remain out of the SPL Lennon will have the post for at least another three years. He will sign another deal sadly and we can all look forward to another 4 to 5 years of his excuses for defeat before a ball has been kicked.

By the way, Ray, I cannot agree with your remark about Wilkinson, the title winning side had Speed, Batty, McCallister, Wallace and a certain Eric Cantona. His youth set up consisting of Kewell, Woodgate, Robinson and Smith was superb. They played some great football when they won the league including outclassing us in a League Cup tie at Goodison Park.

As for Benitez he only lost the plot when he fell out with the owners. A CL and a further final plus an FA Cup and runners up in 2009 when they battered Man Utd at OT was not a bad return in 5 years. He also bought Torres, Alonso, Mascherano and Kuyt. He was always on a hiding to nothing at Inter despite winning the World Club Championship.

I would hardly class him as a risky signing. He was the last manager to break the monopoly of Real/Barca — pretty decent record... hardly in the same vein as someone who has not won a single thing, playing defensive football and has a back room staff of former defenders only!

Tony J made me laugh very heartily with that!

I guess with managers you really need someone who is still in the job somewhere so they have at least still got a grasp. Then you'd look for better than what you have and at that point those two alone would signal the 'kerching' sound effects. Moyes's wages on offer would be a bloody big carrot but having BK as a boss would make a nun swear like a trooper.

"Moyes hasn't come close in ten years in charge"

What are you talking about Gareth?

Gareth Fieldstead @809

Gareth, I agree he did enjoy some success which is why I qualified my post with an ackowledgement, I think my opinion of Wilkinson , (I think he's a prick) has no doubt clouded my judgement. It happens, you know.....

Gareth, what 4th and an FA final is not close to 6th and an FA cup?

Tony, please, Paulo Di Canio is not a head the ball, he is a fucking psychopath - and (openly) a fascist too.

I have not been Moyes fan of late, but this year, I have actually kept my negativity to myself, because I see something interesting.

But If he go, witch is fine by me, the we should consider a double swop from Molde, Forren and Solskjaer, unless we somehow could convince Bilic to take the job....I think it's time Everton try a foreign manager, getting some new inputs.

This must be a wind up - lets see now, Moyes has been overlooked for pretty much every Premiership job going in the last few years (exception of Villa about 4 years ago and may Sunderland a couple of years ago). But now he's on for the Man U job, probably the biggest manager's position in the whole league. Having also won the square root of f'all in the (coming up to) 11 years he's been at Everton....

Not to put down the good work Moyes has done at Goodison but we've more chance of signing Messi on a free at the end of the season than this happening!

Also, when exactly have we 'out foxed' man u? I can't remember winning at Old Trafford in the last 11 years.

Denis...1) how do you know Moyes hasn't been approached for other jobs? I'm pretty sure that not everything in football is reported to the media.
2) And I don't understand why 'out foxed' relates to winning at Old Trafford...if memory serves me correct though, we dominated Manchester United at Goodison in August, and were the only team to stop them scoring this year? We also came back from 3-1 and 4-2 to draw 4-4 at Old Trafford and effectively cost United the title, also this year.

Moyes has done a fantastic job here...better than any of the managers which have won domestic trophies outside of the top four clubs during the Moyes era. But, I can't see this happening...I do think Ferguson would like Moyes to take over, and I think Moyes could do a good job...but if Mourinho (the world's best manager imo) is available, or Guardiola, what chance does Moyes have? realistically he will need to either pull of a fantastic season with us when the job becomes available, and hope other top managers are in firm jobs. The Man U job is massive, and as well as I think Moyes has done here, there will be more qualified managers in the frame.

And Gareth, what are you talking about? when Moyes took over we were on the cusp of relegation, and had a relegation squad...with far less money than most of the league he has turned us into consistent challenges for a European Spot. We've played some shit football (pre-Jan last season) but when the creative players are sold, and we couldn't afford replacements, what was expected? Don't project better expectations onto this club than is realistic...we've had the means of a bottom 5 Premiership Team under Moyes, but have consistently challenged for the top 5-8. Success is not only managed in trophies.

Patrick Murphy #790 "It has to be somebody like Martinez who at least has a vision on how to play the game in the right way"

It's a real shame that vision doesn't stretch to actually winning games in the premier league all that often. His win rate in the top flight is 27%.And before anyone says it is about money, over the last 5 seasons Wigan's net transfer spend is minus £2.75million and Everton's in minus £10.8m.

And for those saying Moyes isn't good enough for Man U then why the fuck is Martinez enough for Everton?

Here is Martinez Premier League Record

P. W. D. L. F. A. Gd. Pts
131. 33. 37. 61. 137. 234 -97. 136

Here is Moyes over the same period:

P. W. D. L. F. A. Gd. Pts
131. 50. 48. 33. 189. 158. +41 198

OK we'll just have to hope that David Moyes will stay forever and ever as there is nobody out there who can do a similar or better job than him. We won't get the likes of Mourinho or anyone of his ilk so we might as well stick with what we've got.

Only problem is does David Moyes want to spend another 3-5 years managing us?

The question mark over Moyes, has always been what can he achieve with a team of top players? There was a question if he can not only organise a team, and make it difficult to beat, but also be able to play good attacking football. This season has seen the inevitable decline in defensive duties, as we become a team that attacks more:

Shots on target - 160
Goals scored - 28
% shots scored - 17.50

Compare that to the league leaders, United:

Shots on target - 133
Goals scored - 43
% shots scored - 32.33

And its crystal clear that we create the chances, but have a lack of quality to convert them. No doubt, that Moyes would be a gamble for United. But in my opinion, during his tenure the defensive minded play has been a necessity as opposed to a natural trait, as shown by the fact that now we have better attacking players, we have more shots than the league leaders. Not to mention the fact that he has effectively funded the squad we have today by being clever in the transfer market. The way Moyes likes his team to play, is closer to United's style than a foreign manager. So I personally would not be surprised to see Moyes go to United.

Chris, Martinez has been manger of Wigan. Comparing him with Moyes is like comparing Moyes with Ferguson i.e it's pointless. The next manager of Mn utd will face the same problems as Busby's successors. The owners will take the opportunity to make the the changes they wish and I would expect a period of decline for the club.

In my view it would be a disaster for David Moyes and I would rather he went anywhere else. However, why should he go anywhere? H ehas the best job in football.

Quite a comparison Chris but are Swansea and Wigan Athletic really comparable with Everton F.C. Is that where we see ourselves now.

Also when we took David Moyes from PNE what was his record in the PL oh that's right he'd never managed at that level previously, so obviously we were very lucky to get a man of such high calibre.

I have said before and I'll say it again I am not a Moyes out Brigadeer neither am I he must stay or Everton will crumble type, I'm only looking at alternatives if and only if David Moyes decides to leave the club or the club decide his time is up.

The best thing for Everton Football Club is to get the contract situation sorted out one way or another and move on.

I can't see us going for Martinez. I assume we'd have to pay a big fee which would probably be an issue for us. He did start the swansea revolution, he does have an attack focus, but his wigan team does get battered so he'd represent a big gamble that would cost a fortune to put straight (sacked) or relegated. Bottom three again, it's a no from me.

This being everton, I would expect we'll get Neville, although our best hope would be Lennon, not great, but cheap. I like Moyes, I pull my hair out on his negativity, square pegs in round holes, victor et al, but it's going to be hard to replace him. The alternatives are terrible, the side will probably go backwards, and we get no guarantee that someone can take us that place higher or win that final instead of being the bridesmaid.

£3m per season that we pay Moyes should snare someone decent. Sadly I can't see many. Some names I would pitch in - Clarke, jol, hitzsfeld, Hughton, laudrap. One is highly unlikely, where as the other 4s stock could rise or fall like a mark Hughes, Owen coyle etc. Clarke looks next best, although the German has a fine pedigree.

Patrick in financial terms we are a lot closer to Wigan than we are to the 'big' 5 or 6.
2011/12
Turnover
Arsenal £256m
Chelsea - £222m
Man Utd £331m
Liverpool £184m
Spurs £163m
Man C £153m
Everton £82m, Wigan £51m,
Wages:
Everton £58m
Wigan £40m
Man C £174m
Man U £153m
Liverpool £135m
Arsenal £124m
Spurs £91m

I'm a Martinez fan because of the unique transformation he created at Swansea. No other manager has done anything like it, it was an out of the ashes revolution; just what this club has been begging for.

Wigan will always be a hard sell to a certain level of player because survival is all it's about. Yet the same chumps bemoaning negativity about Moyes and his challenging for "european football" year on year (poetic licence there) want to pair us off with Wigan when it suits.

Pack it in, if Martinez got that extra oomph in important games that evades Moyes we might win a cup ..... or even a derby game!!

Not sure he'd want to come though.

Out net spend for the past five seasons is actually below Wigan's... (but then we were in different positions five seasons ago).

But if Moyes left today, I would advocate Martinez. I think that he is defensively lacking, but gets his sides playing very good football, and effected a fantastic transformation at Swansea. I unfortunately expect us to go backwards as well when Moyes goes if our financial situation doesn't change...

Moyes' transfer record really, when it comes down to it, is arguably only bettered by Wenger's, and he generally gets the best out of players. I am conscious that if a manager came in, and made a few bad transfers, we could find ourselves much nearer the bottom half of the table than the top.

Chris them figures certainly show where we are regarding the bigger clubs financially, but we knew that and have known that ever since BK rode in on his white creditcard-charger some 13 years ago.

I understand that most of the supporters want to keep David Moyes because with a chairman like ours we need a good wheeler-dealer in the transfer market.

I touted Martinez because like so many others agree, he may provide something new and different whilst at the same time he is used to working to a tight budget.

I honestly don't want to go down the road of Mark Hughes, Owen Coyle and others like them who leave a lot to be desired both in terms of personality and ability.

To be honest there are not a lot of managers out there who would touch us with a bargepole given our financial situation. It's really really sad that in just over 40 years Wigan have gone from a non-league outfit to catching up with a once leading club in English football. Maybe Benitez was right , perhaps we are just a small club after all.

Not sure about that Jim, I would hardly call Carsley, Gravesen, Watson, Ferguson, Radzinski, Weir, Rooney, Campbell or Pistone a relegation team. Once again, we compare Moyes to a manager completely out of his depth that showed the SPL for what it is.

I would hardly call a 4th place and a cup final that we were outclassed in as success for 10 years. When you consider Cardiff have managed two cup finals and Boro, Portsmouth, Birmingham have all won trophies with shite players then sorry I don't think 7th or 8th is good enough.

Pardew almost achieved CL football last season despite the sales of Enrique, Carroll, Nolan, Barton etc and only recieving a fraction of funds raised to re invest. You can only use money as an excuse for so long. Season after season Wenger sells his top players, his transfer record is actually in credit and he has never failed to get in the CL, explain that.

Gareth,

Arsenal are able to pay the players they sign a hell of a lot more than we can. Not to mention the size squad they have. For God's sake don't compare the money Arsenal can and do spend to what we can spend. They may not spend what United or City do, but they spend a hell of a lot more than us. Just because Van Persie left for United and the year before Fabregas left for Barca doesn't mean they have a threadbare squad. Lets just rattle off their attacking options (Djourou, Cazorloa, Walcott, Wilshere, Arteta, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Arshevin, Ramsey, Podolski). That's not the full list.

Newcastle achieved that finish last season with losing Barton and Nolan (hardly top class players) but while signing Cisse, Ba, and quite a few others. This summer they didn't spend, and are struggling.

As for the odd sides that lucked into a trophy in a cup competition, well that's just it, it's largely luck. It's luck of the draw, luck of the form of the team you play, and sometimes just luck in the match. But if you want McLeish as manager I think he's available, after being an utter disaster getting teams relegated and nearly relegated.

What Moyes does do is constantly have us toward the top of the table year after year. The team he inherited was old and generally poor. Rooney was a kid, not the player he is now. Ferguson was mostly injured when he wasn't getting suspended, and Radzinski is a player you would expect to see on a team battling at the bottom of the table. Actually, the team you named sounds very much like a relegation contender, which it was.

"You can only use money as an excuse for so long". Hmmm, so if you look at the league, the positions they don't translate into the wealth of the club every season?

Moyes has reduced the squad to threadbare status when he took over from Walter. He's upped the quality, got the club as the next best consistently for 10 years. Money is the issue, as the top sides have better quality to cover the injuries, loss of form and suspensions that come along. Yes, he could be better, I am not disputing that, but remove the money factor (see liverpool) from owners and champions league, and then they all fall to our level or lower.

The premier league has a small number of outstanding players, and then a lot of average ones.R

I really wonder what world the people who say things like "you can't use money as an excuse" live in. City before buy out, hadn't won anything for many decades. They get bought by Arab billionaires, instantly in the Champions League and win the League. Liverpool go into financial troubles, they drop down the league. It's all about money, all of it.

I agree, there are very few exceptions of teams bucking the money trend. Yes arsenal have a superb transfer record but they also have a considerably larger wage bill than us and invested a fortune in youth players.

People saying money is just an excuse are frankly ignoring what is right in front of them.

David Moyes to Man Utd, Rooney comes back the other way then Jose Mourinho to Everton. Not sure if I'd be happy, but I'd enjoy the post-match interviews and reading the comments on here.

A little bit of Stalinisation going on there David? Didn't Arteta take a drop in salary to join Arsenal? As for Van Persie and Fabregas are you not forgetting Nasri, Clichy, Adebayor, Veira, Toure, Henry the list is endless hardly one or two! As for some of the players you mention, Arshevin barely gets a game ditto Chamberlain. As for the players you dismiss that played under Smith again you fail to mention that Carsley was as influential as any player under Moyes, Radzinski was player of the year in 2003 and Graveson and Rooney left for much smaller clubs in the shape of Utd and Real Madrid. As for the skunks those not top class players you mentioned we're replaced by players for huge profit. I could go on and on taking your 'facts' to pieces but I haven't got all day.
Moyes has done a decent job nothing more. Whether you dismiss other teams lucky wins to secure trophies or not if Moyes was to go now is cv would still read won nothing. As for money when Moyes has had decent money to spend he has wasted it, I still shudder when I think of who he bought with the Rooney money, Beattie, Van De Meyde, Kolstrup and Davies. Ditto Lescott, seriously did he ever watch Bily play?

A little bit of Stalinisation going on there David? Didn't Arteta take a drop in salary to join Arsenal? As for Van Persie and Fabregas are you not forgetting Nasri, Clichy, Adebayor, Veira, Toure, Henry the list is endless hardly one or two! As for some of the players you mention, Arshevin barely gets a game ditto Chamberlain. As for the players you dismiss that played under Smith again you fail to mention that Carsley was as influential as any player under Moyes, Radzinski was player of the year in 2003 and Graveson and Rooney left for much smaller clubs in the shape of Utd and Real Madrid. As for the skunks those not top class players you mentioned we're replaced by players for huge profit. I could go on and on taking your 'facts' to pieces but I haven't got all day.
Moyes has done a decent job nothing more. Whether you dismiss other teams lucky wins to secure trophies or not if Moyes was to go now is cv would still read won nothing. As for money when Moyes has had decent money to spend he has wasted it, I still shudder when I think of who he bought with the Rooney money, Beattie, Van De Meyde, Kolstrup and Davies. Ditto Lescott, seriously did he ever watch Bily play?

Gareth,

Stalinisation?? Really? Some of your comments just there demonstrate you're not exactly serious or just don't really know what you're talking about.

Gareth...have you realised that the clubs you mentioned as winning trophies were all relegated/lower division?!! hardly counts as success to me. Would you take a league cup about Premiership status? And Pompey spent like mad under Harry, directly leading to their financial problems.

I also find it fantastic that you refer to Pardew's achievements of 'almost' getting into the Champions League. Where exactly are they in the league now Gareth? Don't get me wrong, Pardew brought fantastically, but he did spend...on Ba, Cabaye, Tiote, Marveaux, Anita, Cisse...and they are exactly the players who are not performing for the team now. Good players for sure, but where is the consistency? They are more likely to be relegated than challenge for top four this season.

And with respect to Wenger, I think he is, with Ferguson and Mourinho, one of the best managers to grace this league. But....when looking at net spends for Arsenal, how far do you go back? When Moyes took over, Arsenal were title favorites, with one of the best teams in the history of the league, whilst we were, however you look at it, in a relegation fight. Since then, Arsene has consistently made a net profit...they also haven't won a trophy in 6? years, and despite a series of high profile signings, he has seen his team go from title contenders, to battling for fourth. In that same period, despite a minimal net spend, we have improved considerably. Or would you disagree, and suggest we haven't improved and Arsenal have? To look at where Arsenal are now, and their net spends, but to forget how good they were, is to not look at the entire story.

And with respect to your myopic description of Moyes' signings... how much profit did we make on Lescott again? near on 20million? we sold Mcfadden for 3-4 times as much as we paid. We got Arteta for 2mill? Cahill for a similar amount? Pienaar for a similar amount. Jags, Baines and Distin have all proved fantastic value...not to mention Gibson for a snip, Fellaini who looks worth a hell of alot more than what we paid, Mirallas and Jelavic? How can you sit there and claim that Moyes has wasted money when he ever he has had a decent amount to spend? Now we can pick bad buys for every manager in history...but how many managers improve their team in the Barclays Premier League with a net spend of around £500,000 under their tenure? how many have achieved a top 5-8 level of consistency with the budget of a bottom 5 premier league team? Answers on a postcard please. Moyes' transfer record is fundamentally superb, hence our progression on a tiny budget. If it hadn't been superb, we wouldn't be challenging for Champions League football now.

Let's get it right, guys... we've one of the best managers in Europe, the man has single-handed dragged our beloved club back to where it belongs! We were dead and buried 10 years ago after the Peter Johnson era (bar Big Joe); Moyes is a modern-day Bill Shankly and has re-shaped our beloved club from top to bottom.

I love hearing the positives about our club from the people who count in sport and bar the idiots at Sky and the two dickheads on BBC MotD! People are raising an eyebrow now about us this season, we're definitely close now and in my humble opinion in the top 3 teams in the Prem!! Credit to Moyes and Kenwright for making the old lady of English football the blueprint to follow with tradition, honour and values for the rest of the money bags clubs to envy!

I'm confident that the players who play for Everton are loyal to the core and play for the badge and us! We know any player who does not subscribe to this soon hits the exit door. I'm confident Moyes will stay and build his own legacy rather that become the next Alex Ferguson.

Daniel. Credit to Kenwright, for what exactly?

Dan Brierley #697, Mourinho had also won the previous season's UEFA Cup with Porto, when they beat Celtic in the Final. And, when winning the Champions' League, they also knocked out Man. Ut - in the last sixteen. Still, you have a point. But Porto had a very strong team back then: Carvalho was onde of the best centre-backs in Europe, Victor Baia, the keeper, was pure class, Deco was a great mastermind, and Benni McCarthy could score a few goals (as he later showed at Blackburn).

What I mean, Colin, is that Bill Kenwright came in to a debt-ridden club and stabilised it. He found what I think is one of the best managers in football!

The club is going in the right direction and living by its means, not overspending and not buying players who only care about money. In all honesty, Colin, I don't want a billionaire owner and players at Everton kissing the badge on £100,000+ a week!!

Do you really want an Abramovic or Hicks and Gillet at our club? Look at Manchester City! Can't have too many big heads in one dressing room — it doesn't work.

I've been fortunate to see great Everton sides of the past and the big difference now is that were building for a continued future with one of the best youth setups in the country which goes all the way to the top.

Sorry, my blue brother, but Kenwright / Moyes are behind these shrewd business plans and everything they do is for the good of our Everton.

Daniel, BK has overseen the biggest debts in the clubs history and please don't roll out the "he found Moyes" bollocks, he wanted Megson, and ended up with Moyes. Kenwright's footballing business acumen is shallower than a drop of spit in the Mojave desert.

I don't understand all the fuss about Pep Guardiola, He managed basically the Spanish world cup winning team with the worlds best player added to it and still didnt win the league in his final season and couldnt handle the pressure so quit. Then the next guy takes over and so far seems to be doing better. I doubt Guardiola could have done as good a job as Moyes at Everton.

Gavin,

I'm so sick of hearing that line about BK overseeing the biggest debts in the clubs history. It's the same disingenuous argument that conservatives love to lob toward politicians in their attempts for austerity. Of course the debt it higher, everything costs a hell of a lot more these days than it used to, and it's a completely different business than it used to be. Players were paid peanuts compared to today, there were no agents, it was a fairly simple game to finance. It's a BS argument.

Clubs are in debt, because that's how the game is financed. Unless you're the rich billionaire Arabs or billionaire Russian who will personally finance the lavish spending it takes to compete, the club will be in debt. When compared to the other clubs who constantly compete at the top of the table, it's a relatively small amount.

I really hope Moyes doesn't leave but, if he does, we need someone who's been close to him and the club for the past 10 years of rebuilding! Anyone for Alan Stubbs? Duncan Ferguson as his Number 2?

As for Gavin's and David's comments, guys are we saying we want to go down the billionaire route? I think it will destroy the great work that's been done over the past 10 years. You build from the bottom up and we've had great success with our youth.

Please don't be negative about Kenwright, the man does the best he can. I'd rather have him than any other chairman as he cares just as much about our club as we do! These billionaires will get bored one day and them clubs who've spent big have club-crippling debts.

Whatever David Moyes has built at Everton, it has been despite, not because, of Bill Kenwright. The man deserves nothing but contempt IMO. All the evidence anyone needs is well documented, been done to death on this very website and available to view. Go and have a look, David and Daniel.

Merry Christmas.

Daniel. "What I mean, Colin, is that Bill Kenwright came in to a debt-ridden club and stabilised it. He found what I think is one of the best managers in football!"

Stabilised a debt-ridden club, how? By turning it into an even more debt-ridden club, with no structural assets, whilst PL income increases to record highs! Fuckin' good job he's done there, eh?

He didn't "find" Moyes. DM was all he could afford.

So, Colin, as an Evertonian, what do you want? I just find it all a bit negative, I think we have a well structured club. Chelsea and Manchester City have been nothing clubs and have massive debts!! I wouldn't swap anything to be like them.

I don't think we have to worry about Manchester Utd stepping in to poach away our manager. I think we have to worry about not going into free fall in the second half of the season and letting the ludicrous pairs of points we've dropped so far cost us a place in the Champions League.

If the blessed Davey does go to Man Utd, at least it will stop them winning anything!

If this happened, Osman would be the oldest on aggregate to debut for England and Manchester United.