Baines set to go if no Champions League

The one we need to keep is Jags.

Baines, Jags and Fellaini could all win trophies at clubs who strived for them. The January transfer window showed the board in its true colours. Now the loan window is open and three players have gone OUT on loan since it closed. NONE have arrived... 'nuff said!

Horrified? Maybe, but don`t bet against that scenario!

He's worth at least £30mil

I am beginning to wonder if LB thinks he is off??

Still Domenic, Oviedo must be worth a shout, and like Andy, I do not begrudge him his chance.

As for. Fella, if he has to go then Chelsea it must be, and the deal must include Lukaku coming to us. This frees up a sale of Jelly, who is not as good as Lukaku, we can sell JH and replace him with Duffy who cannot be worse, and introduce Stones at RB as it is another area we are weak at. The above will reduce the wage bill, reduce the age of the squad, allow some spending on extending the squad and even allow some debt repayment. Sounds easy, I am sure it is not, but others get paid a load more than me to sort it.

Moyes is gone. Fella will be sold. Baines right behind, if not in front of. Throw in Heitinga? A major cash infusion (and wage dump) for the owners.

Baines is in his late 20s. He'll stick around for a re-building program? Why?

We should be talking about what comes next. Because next season starting with Baines, Fella, and Johnny still in the squad will be a shock.

Been over a year since I closed with this:

Kenwright et al OUT!

Tottenham regularly sell their best players, but not before ensuring they have made the other side pay over the odds. I imagine for all talk of £20m, Man Utd will of course start their offer for Baines at £12m. Levy would laugh and refuse to answer the phone, BK would probably get back on and ask them to throw in another fringe player as well.

Tottenham fans know Bale will probably go this summer, and don't like it but accept they will get top dollar for him. If that is then re-invested in the team and they keep contending next season they will be happy.

The trick is not necessarily keeping your best players but ensuring you get the right return and properly investing it back into the team. It will never happen under BK.

"Oviedo will be a worthy successor to Baines"

Utter conjecture, and not based on anything I've seen watching him play. He looks neat and nippy that's all. Knocked off the ball far too easily for me.

Colin @455, NSNO today will only be observed by selling players. It is where the club is at, whether us as fans like it or not. The Board has no interest in putting money into the club and trying to make it the best it can be. Moyes can only do so much and you get the feeling he has been worn down. Any other manager coming in will be asked to work under the same constraints that he has for the last 10 years. Players in this day and age don't just stay at a club for the sake of the badge.

For many fans now, the only way that the club can possibly be significantly improved is for us to sell the likes of Fellaini and Baines in the summer and use the cash to clear debts and improve the squad overall.

There is the money we were going to spend on Fer, plus £50 mil for the combined Fellaini and Baines plus nominal fees for Heitinga and Naismith; giving whoever comes in to replace the manager a healthy amount of cash and a fresh start to build a team in his own image.

I still think we can make it to 4th, although it'll be incredibly difficult. If we don't though, we need a fresh start.

You thought Walter was bad? He did the best he could; Moyes has done wonders and, as good as you may think the rest are, we will have a bottom half squad without Baines and Fellaini and no other manager will keep us top half.

Without Moyes, we are Aston Villa. We have hit our glass ceiling and Moyes deserves credit for us bouncing our foreheads on it. Without substantial backing, no-one could do better.

Why?

Hasn't he been an England regular for the past six months or more?

Can't stand this emotionalist abuse that the likes of you peddle against other Evertonians who offer realistic views, just so you can position yourselves as the purist conscience of the club. Fuck right off unless you can step up with a realistic strategy yourself that can work in the current situation we find ourselves in.

If the sale proceeds and he stays, true revolution is in the air!

See Bale, Suarez, Baines, Fellaini, or any player who leaves for a top 4 side.

http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/original700/alex-ferguson-bill-kenwright-2011-10-26-16-22-25.jpg

Wonder what their talking about?

Kendall Mk 2 and Mk 3 was given no support from the board; Smith completely out of his depth. We are comparing him to the experience of them two. Royle won a trophy, was 6th in his one full season, and was hounded out on the back of one set of poor results which happened to coincide with a horrendous injury list.

As noted above, Fellaini, Osman, Heitinga and Baines can leave and a new manager just from the sales of them four would have about £60 million to play with. The banks could have the additional TV revenue, therefor everyone benefits. I personally don't think it would be the end of the world — hardly like when Kendall left the first time... most of us knew it was the end of us being the best side in England.

Tony Marsh – I hope, and look forward to, you coming on here in a years time (or even two to give the new guy a chance), enthusiastically braying "I told you so"! But I honestly doubt it!

As for Baines, he's the best left back I've ever seen at Everton and I've been here since 1968. He will be missed, but not as much as Moyes.

Unfortunately we've heard this type of thing a lot at Everton:

"We can sell Gary Stevens, Neil McDonald can more than fill his boots"

"Kevin Sheedy -Ian Wilson"

"Trevor Steven - Stuart someone-or-other"

Etc etc etc

I think we've played some decent stuff, certainly pre-Xmas actually, and I'll say right now that I am NOT a died-in-the-wool Moyes diehard fan – I often think a bit more adventure and "lets go for it" attitude would see us win the odd game at Old Trafford and Anfield – but I do think that, given the club's situation financially and the lack of backing from this board, and the player pulling power given our circumstances – that Moyes is the best man for the job.

A lot of people who know me and suffer my rantings would be astounded to hear me defend Moyes but I'm also a realist. We are where we are and what we are... and, without funding, are unlikely to get better. I just worry that without Moyes (and Baines and Fellaini) we are likely to get worse.

I really do believe that there could be a bright future for us if Everton appoint an adventurous manager who knows how football should be played and is willing to bring on some of the youth players and help them develop. We have a fantastic youth academy set up, ridiculously loyal supporters and a chairman who will give the manager time to achieve things.

Crucially as with many business's it comes down to appointing the right man and I believe that man is Laudrup but you could look abroad as there are plenty of managers that would jump at the chance of bossing a Premier League side.

Look at last time, scraped into 4th, needed investment for the CL campaign and what happens, nowt.

Never mind the accompanying Conspiracy Theory, we we just not good enough to compete without new players who never materialised, that showed up when we then got dumped out of the Champions League!

Kenwright was too busy accepting the plaudits from the public following the 4th place finish to bother his arse strengthening the squad.

Same this would happen again.

Also, wasn't Pat Nevin brought in to replace Tricky Trev?

Getting young talent IS the way forward, and if we can wipe out some debt and get 4-5 quality players in by selling 2 players then we should all day, every day. Because no one gives a crap about the europa league and even winning it won't help the budget. And unless something dramatically changes this season, Champions League is not happening.

There is no guarantee that the money that appeared at the end of January is now waiting for the summer transfer window (if it was ever really in place to begin with) nor that we will get £50 million combined for Fellaini and Baines (personally I reckon something nearer £40 million is more likely. Factor in the likelihood that a slice of the pie will be used to pay off some debt, and you could easily be 4 players down come August with no more than £30 million to replace them and bring in a couple more. Not an insubstantial amount but it won't be 6 ten million pound players by any means.

Unless there are multiple suitors or release clauses in place, I wouldn't even bet on the money being available until near the end of August.

Of course you can't.

I accept that there could be managers who may do a better job, but there aren't any I can think of who have actually proved it to date.

Whoever we get in will be taking a chance. Again, no problem with that but what you/we are aspiring to is something no club has been able to achieve in the modern game. That's the context for our next manager – take us to the next level; take us to the point where we are regularly challenging for trophies and are challenging each season for a top four place. Take us somewhere where no manager has gone before!

We all want the same thing, but for me the real problem, with all Moyes's faults, is surely our board. I don't believe anyone managing Everton, and I mean anyone, would be able to satisfy our aspirations and achieve that kind of status under the current circumstances.

In the season when Reid, Steven and McCall all played together, Reid played 16 league games, Nevin 20 and McCall 29. Didn't Ray Atteveld and Neil Mc Donald share the right back slot?

Good game that Alex.

BK will then have a very big decision to get right with appointing a new manager to inherit a good squad missing two talismen but possibly £20-£30m to replace them. With any luck he will also shift Heitinga and any other high wage earners not worth their corn.

The question that I suspect may dominate ToffeeWeb this summer is who will that manager be and which players should he bring in.

For me, even though still new, Laudrup looks the best candidate, with maybe Martinez and Steve Clarke not too far behind.

In terms of players I think we could do worse than follow Newcastle's example and pick up some very talented but undervalued French players. Capoue for one looks class (though why we didn't go for Sissoko I will never know).

I hope Moyes stays and finally gets the chance to spend some decent money. We have already overtaken teams like the Shite in terms of League placings, and who would have thought that even 5 years ago, despite the money they spend? We are now closer to Arsenal and Chelsea than we have been for years, and this all on about an average net spend of about £3m a year.

Show me another manager that has achieved the amount of stability we now have on that shit amount of money. We pretty much know we will finish around the top 6 every year and yes I would love us to do better and win the League or a cup and we should be, we are a massive club, but without the dosh, and with a board that might have good intentions but are sadly lacking in business nous and foresight, Moyes has always had to perform with one hand tied behind his back.

Just to clear another thing up. Moyes is the 6th highest paid manager in the League, which reflects where we usually are in the League. Not that bad a deal is it really?

"Ian Wilson - Underwhelming understudy to Kevin Wilson" (you'd be gutted if that was your entry!)

"Neil McDonald - faced the difficult if not impossible task of succeeding... Gary Stevens". Snodin (obviously bought as a CM) was switched in there in desperation really when McD was injured.

I suggest you look up Stuart Storer, I know who Stuart McCall and Grah am Stuart are ffs.

Tony J if you tell me to do one once again I shall reel off a list of players to make your toes curl. I'll fire a Jim Pearson across your bows as a warning.

You have been warned!

Out
Kanchelskis
Limpar
Jackson
Sideways
Ebbrell

In
Phelan
Claus Thomson
Slaven Bilic, Barmby

What a crock of shit.

People need to wake up and realise that we have a budget and the manager needs to stick with it or we're going into administration.

I think the club is very badly mis-managed by Kenwright, but my beef is that he has allowed the club to take on so much debt and not increase revenues or develop the ground. Pandering to Moyes to put us further in debt(if anyone is stupid enough to lend to us), is lunacy.

If the club's budget isn't good enough for Moyes, better for him to piss off now. I'd rather get someone like Adkins in or perhaps someone from la-liga who are used to managing teams with smaller budgets and getting them to play decent football.

Moyes has been here 10 years, and he has vastly improved the playing squad and kept us in a very decent league position year after year, but he's won bugger all, and doesn't look to have the ability to ever do so. He seems to bottle it far too often.

He also seems completely incapable of developing any of our young players. A club like ours cannot survive by not utilizing our youth system.

But back to he thread and the half term report reads:.

"Brian Oviedo - so far an underwhelming understudy to Leighton Baines"