Adios Apostolos (I know he's Greek but áíôßï doesn't rhyme!)

Seems Vellios has as good as announced his departure on Twitter. He also made a point of thanking Moyes... but not Martinez. Interesting.

Phil@24, I don't do Twitter, what does Vellios say?

Looks like Vellios has decided his future lies elsewhere...

He struck me as a bit of a Danny Cadamarteri type in the way after a couple of half decent games he thought he had made it and couldn't be arsed to put in the hard work on the training ground. I wish the lad well but it hopefully opens up a place for Connor McAleny or Chris Long who I believe have more potential and a better attitude to hard work than did Vellios.

His comment with the photo was: "Thank you for everything Mr David Moyes."

There's still nothing anywhere about whether he was released, sold, transferred on a free or threw his toys out of the pram to get his digs in first. All pretty odd but I suspect the Cadamarteri comparison may not be too wide of the mark.

At least Cadamarteri is still remembered by Evertonians, even if only for once ripping the arse out of Neil Ruddock and the Redshite. Vellios will be forgotten by most in a couple of hours unless they happen to bump into him in Bargain Booze one night.

I know some people remember him coming on and scoring a couple a few years ago and wonder why he never really featured after that. Including him himself seemingly. It's not really a secret or some sort of conspiracy to curtail a young players career before it even got started. Anyone who ever witnessed his regular half-hearted efforts for the Under-21s where he moped around like a less hefty version of Harry Enfield's 'Kevin' (or 'Perry' – take your pick) will know why.

Your last line says a lot, John. It must feel like twice the insult for him when he sees an U17 player like Ledson get promoted ahead of him.

I hope next season Martinez gives more chances to the young players. I know this season both Stones and Barkley have enjoyed prolonged first-team football but I feel Barkley is just developing naturally after Moyes involved him quite a bit last season. And I wonder how much first-team football Stones would have seen without that injury to Jagielka.

I've been a little disappointed that youngsters like Vellios, Kennedy, McAleny, Browning, Grant, Long, Touray and Lundstram have been completely overlooked this season. In fact, outside of Stones and Barkley, the only youngster to see first team football has been the Garbutt who got a couple of minutes against Southampton.

Martinez has given lots of first team football to the likes of Deulofeu and Lukaku but personally I feel it is counter productive for us to develop Barcelona and Chelsea youngsters. Let Barcelona and Chelsea develop their own young players.

Give the limited first team opportunities to Everton young players. Players like Vellios, Kennedy, McAleny, Browning, Grant, Long, Touray and Lundstram need to feel like they are involved and it must be horrible to be an Everton youngster stuck in the reserves while Barcelona and Chelsea players take all the first team opportunities.

Dick Brady (8), when you say Moyes involved Barkley quite a bit last season, I assume you're including all those games where his 'involvement' was just to sit on the bench and watch Moyes's favourites come on ahead of him.

Dear, oh dear, Richard... in case you haven't noticed, we've been in with a shout of a top 4 place all season — not exactly conducive to experimenting with players deemed not quite ready for high pressure games in the PL.

I can imagine what fans would have said if RM had played 1 or 2 younger players and they had been the reason we'd lost valuable points. It would have been counter productive for the young players and also for the club as a whole!

He was bought by Moyes so it's normal that he thanked him. Moyes reverted to type though soon afterwards - he benched him, and then only gave him the customary 5 minutes here and there. His development was stopped like countless others - José Baxter, Shane Duffy, John Paul Kissock etc. He ruined Rodwell, even though he did give him a game. He wouldn't even play Barkley!

His Everton career had nose-dived by the time Roberto came in. His attitude might have been wrong, but it must have been so frustrating for him to see midfielders (Cahill/Fellaini) being played up front ahead of him, even after he had made his breakthrough and scored a few goals...

Roberto hasn't given him any time, but in reality he was unlucky he wasn't given a proper go by Moyes – in the same situation, I'm sure Roberto would have encouraged him, praised him, and given him a fair go. He might have made it if so.

He spent most of his time posting selfies pissed up and on the razz. With his home economy fucked and the opportunity to get on and make something of himself, he still refused to go out on loan.

No-one owes anyone a living; if you can't be arsed, want it on a plate with some delusional sense of entitlement, just because you are here, then on you go, let someone else pick up your meal ticket.

Even average shit footballers can earn more in a short career than most folk do busting their arses to an early grave for most of their lives, if they can't see that they need to give their heads a wobble and move on.

To a degree, I would agree with Dick's sentiment. Martinez didn't have to field a starting eleven of kids under twenty. Of course that would be silly. It is a pity that some of the youngsters seem to have been overlooked somewhat for other clubs' players.

You could say that our own were not fully ready but at least give some of them a better go. Who's to say that Lundstram could have done any worse than Osman did in some games? Would Stones really have gotten the games he did purely on merit alone?

I am expecting, not just hoping, that Stones, Garbutt, Lundstram, Ledson and Duffy get named in the 25-man squad for next season and that they actually get proper game time. If they are as good as Martinez says they are then I just hope he is giving them more than just lip service.

I think his contract was to 2015 so it would be interesting to find out how he left. Strange that there's no info at all... guess we'll find out soon enough.

I can't believe there are some unwilling to praise Martinez for Stones's progress. In the same situation, Moyes would have 100% played Heitinga or Hibbert at centre back. Martinez could have done the same or gone for Alcaraz... but he has trusted the youngster. He gets all the credit from me.

He seems to have pissed RM off big time, I can only guess that his attitude left somewhat to be desired and Martinez deemed it would be better if they parted company.

Maybe we will find out at a later date.

I can't believe there's even a debate here about if Martinez should have played more of our own youngsters. FFS he played those who were ready as often as he he could. The 'opportunities' to the other clubs' loanees were given because those players were ready. No-one can really argue that any of our young wingers and strikers were anywhere near as complete as Lukaku or Deulofeu, to be given a run-in the first team.

Martinez plays a possession game ... Control, vision, accurate lay off ... Create a chance. From what I've seen of Vellios he struggles with all of these. Handy 'pop up in the box and scuff one in' type rather than the power forward with a decent touch that RM wants. Even Lukaku struggles with touch at times but his power makes up for it ... Vellios falls a little short on this. Still, hope he goes on to have a decent career. Greek league beckoning?

It's obvious he was at cross purposes with management and his sulking doesn't belong in a team clearly going places. If he was good enough and had the right attitude, I am sure he would have been given more opportunities but he seems to have gone past the point of no return.

"It is a pity that some of the youngsters seem to have been overlooked somewhat for other clubs' players."

WTF? – are people trying to suggest RM is guilty of playing his favourites rather than the best players of all those who were available to him? They might be loanees, but the reality is that, for the duration of their loan contract, they are as much our players as anyone else on our books.

Almost as daft is the suggestion that the departure of Vellios opens the door for other youngsters. Their ability to do the job required is what gains them opportunities, and if they were below Vellios in that regard, then they presumably won't be much use to us in the future unless they improve (or the team declines).

The simple truth is that the majority of our youngsters are unlikely to ever make the grade, and there is no evidence that I can see that Martinez is loath to utilize those who are actually good enough.

I was under the impression that Vellios had already pretty much burned his bridges under Moyes and that he spurned the opportunity to rebuild his reputation by going out on loan and proving himself elsewhere. It is sad that he has not developed into the player we would all have wished him to be, but the club is not a charity and has to make this sort of difficult decision all the time. It is the same when older players become unable to maintain the standards they have previously set through no fault of their own. When players move on, we should simply thank them for their efforts (when appropriate) and wish them the best for the future.

We have to trust that the club treats everyone fairly and helps them find new opportunities when they don't conflict with our best interests.

What absolute rubbish Dick, seriously. Most of the players you have mentioned have been out on loan, an integral part of their development, hardly sitting around twiddling their thumbs! You can't really compare them to Lukaku. Yes we are aiding Chelsea, but also we got ourselves the best striker since Yakubu (pre injury) would you not bother out of some sense of pride? Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me.

I think the main reason rm hasnt brought on more youngsters for 5 minhere or there, is that most of our matches have been touch and go in terms of winning. Tbh there is no place in those sort of games for experimentation. You need to know what youre going to get when you bring someone on from the bench.

If youre going to bring a youngster in to the first team you need a plan.

Nigel, we spent most of the season complaining about ho Del Boy ran into blind alleys and never passed the ball when he should. I don't think he was anywhere near the complete player when we signed him in August.

Si, I wasn't insinuating Martinez was playing his favourites. Like with Del Boy, we have been moaning at times this season that Osman was not up to scratch. My point was that Lundstrum may have had enough in him to be an option worth looking at.

Always been a waste of space this lad. Good to get him of the wage bill at last. If he put in as much effort with his football as he does looking good for his selfie twitter pictures, he might have been a half decent footballer. Waster.

I don't think Martinez has been any more encouraging of our 'home grown' players than was Moyes.

Like his predecessor, he clearly likes to play it safe with talent he trusts rather than dip his toes into the pool of talent lower down. To claim that 'Garbutt has played' is very much over-egging the pudding!

With each Prem position to be worth £2M+, it's unlikely that too many of the young bucks will see much action with any club.

Any attempt to use this to criticise Martinez is ridiculous. Vellios simply wasn't good enough, Martinez could see that. Of our youngsters, there's at least Hope, Long and McAleny who have more promise than Vellios. We lose young players who don't make the grade, no-one to blame but the player.

I posted a few weeks ago that you normally get what you pay for. Obviously there will always be some exceptions such as Coleman (the fee probably has more to do with buying him from a semi professional side though, had he been at a championship or League one side it would have been higher I imagine) but we paid £250,000 for Vellios and it didn't work. I don't think he has come here with the correct attitude, his twitter page encapsulates everything that is wrong with some youngsters in football today. No great loss to us and surely Martinez or Moyes can't be blamed for that one.

Mike, I know it's regarded as heresy to say a single bad word about St.Roberto, so in my own defence, I was not referring to his overlooking of Vellios who clearly was just not good enough.

I don't blame him either for failing to blood the kids. I made the point that there's too much hanging on league positions to take chances. Only Southampton have bucked the trend.

In a nutshell, under Moyes, Vellios was a very average bit part player who made the bench occasionally due to a lack of other options or the money to sign a better player in that position. Under Martinez, Vellios has been froze out, he evidently doesn't rate him and such situations arise at every Club with a change of manager to better players than Vellios.

He wont be missed and his attitude for a pro footballer stinks. I'll be glad when he is off the wage bill and is freeing up another squad place for another player who is a lot hungrier to succeed than he is.

Tata lad !!

As far as blooding more young players are concerned, it depends what is at stake, all season we've been in with a shout of the top 4 so any dropped points would have been more important than if we were just aiming for the middle of the table.

Plus its Martinez's 1st season and so its vital for him to impress everyone.

Also it depends what the quality of the young players who are available is, it can vary from a famine or a feast I suppose!
At the end of the day you have to go with the managers judgement.

Under Moyes, Vellios played 22 times in three seasons, including sub appearances with only six in Moyes last season. So Moyes didn't use him THAT much. It's a shame because on occasions it looked like there might be a player in there somewhere but, clearly, he didn't have the right attitude. Good luck to the lad, anyway.

Kieran (24) - my contention is that if Lundstram (for example) was good enough then he would have got the opportunity rather than those who did play.

Obviously the manager (whose judgement of these matters I am willing to take over your's) thinks he is not yet ready, and the same goes for the others he has not played. You are insinuating that RM is missing sensible opportunities to play these youngsters, which can only apply if he is sticking to players who are less able than the alternatives. That is favouritism of a sort.

I don't understand why anyone would expect a manager not to use a player he had inherited, bought or had brought in on loan unless it was 100% obvious that there were better options available. To say 'who's to say' is the same as saying 'I think I know the players better than the manager'.

I would have thought that RM wants the youngsters to get used to playing the style of football he wants, before being confident enough to thrust them into the premier league, where if you fail you will be ripped to pieces. RM is an intelligent man who sees the bigger picture. THat is why he has joined up all levels to the same style of play.

Not good enough, won't be missed.

Martinez didn't ruin him. Moyes didn't make him a star. If Vellios wants to blame somebody for his lack of playing time, he should look in a mirror.....

"Yah, that's the bugger, right there."

Phil #15 " Moyes would have 100% played Heitinga or Hibbert at centre back. Martinez could have done the same or gone for Alcaraz... but he has trusted the youngster."

Heitinga was sold and Hibbert and Alcaraz were injured, there really wasn't much choice.

In the same circumstances, Eric, Moyes would have put Barry at centre half ahead of Stones.

Stones played many times for us when Alcaraz was on the bench.

This thread has morphed into a totally different discussion to the OP. I agree it is likely the departure was probably of Vellios's own doing there are a lot of (justifiable) assumptions and few people seem curious as to the manner of his departure. The questions are what was the method of him going (his own choice/the club's/has he officially actually gone, etc)?

Why has there been no response from the club or media when he has announced it on Twitter? Has he broken his contract or what? I thought he was under contract until 2015 so are we getting a fee? But, whatever the case, why the mystery?

I wonder if other clubs put so much discussion into the departures of mediocre players on the absolute fringes of the squad.

On the wider, and surprising, suggestion that RM has given youngsters no more opportunity than DM, wasn't it something like 14,000+ minutes on the pitch for under-25 players this season compared to around 4,000 minutes last season?

Bad attitude, bone idle... couldn't drag a cat off a glass counter.

I just discovered that his contract ran until June of this year so I guess that answers that question. Released into the wilderness I guess. Some lessons are learned too late for some people it seems...

I still don't understand why we curtailed his loan spell at Blackpool to bring him back early, only to do nothing with him and then release him — unless Blackpool also wanted him out perhaps.....

Phil #38, Moyes likely wouldn't have even brought in Barry in the first place

Blooding yongsters theme: Everybody should know that Martinez likes to use the pre-season for that and if they impress they will get played just like Stones and Barkley was this season.

I also think that we can afford to play a youngster here and there regardless of pre-season form, just as long as they are in the promising group.

Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger in particular are the best regarding blooding youtjh.

Martinez is getting there however, it is impressive the way Barkley and Stones has performed.