Does It Always Have to Be This Way?

The reality is The Poison Dwarf has done relatively quick business due to paying massively over the odds for his signings.
The selling club know that all too well, they would not get the fees paid by Liverpool from other clubs.

Add in to the equation the ludicrous wages that they are likely to be paying these wonderful new players and it kinda shows how desperate for success they really are. Also they have thrown money hand over fist at the players and staff for nearly 20 years in a desperate attempt to reclaim their place at the top of the pile.

Meanwhile over at the palace of plenty that is Everton FC we have spent the majority of those 20 years trying to make ends meet and whenever we produce any player of any real talent we either choose to sell or are forced to sell in order to keep the first team squad fresh. So far we have managed to do that quite successfully and there is even hope that a couple of our younger better players may actually stay at the club for a few years longer.

Do I want Everton FC to compete at the top end of the market? Yes of course I do. But the plain truth is we can't afford the fees or the salaries.

Would I prefer that Everton FC did its business early? Again of course but I also realise the ramifications if Roberto and or the board get it hopelessly wrong. During the last 20 years we have shown that we cannot merely absorb bad buys like the rest of the Box Office clubs, therefore it is imperative that we are very careful with major signings for significant sums.

What we have at Goodison is a good group of footballers who have shown over a long period of time the right spirit and desire even if not always blessed with top class ability - a couple of astute signings could make a huge difference but the gamble is that the wrong signings could tip the scale in the wrong direction - Caution and patience is required off the pitch in order to provide a better side on it.

BTW, don't delude yourself - with our current squad we can only dream of a top 4 place. This won't change even if Lukaku arrives.

If most Evertonians want the success as desperately as our neighbours seem to want it why haven't they made more of a fuss about BK's regime?

Repeating myself, we were 5th last season, we're in the Europa League, arguably with the best young manager around.
We are hardly doing badly, are we!

The manager in my mind knows the type of player he wants and has known since the end of last season who he wants and the amount of money he has available.

Why there is no movement in the transfer window apart from speculation about younger players seems to be the way Everton operate but it makes me nervous as with just over 3 weeks to the start of the season we do not seem as strong as last year.

We definitely need a proven striker and a quality midfielder but it seems to me that we are going to go for young quantity and not proven quality.This may be the right way to go to build for the future but I am afraid the supporters want a higher finish than last season or a cup win and will not be prepared to exept a rebuilding programme.

Do we really care that they spend hundreds of millions to not win the title and we spend five quid to not win it. I do, but only so I can laugh at them.

Let's beat the others by playing football not by buying players the reds would buy. It's more satisfying. Let's believe in what we are and not worry about Spurs, Newcastle, Liverpool or whoever. When we win it's that little bit more satisfying than a Man City win or Liverpool win, and deep down they know it and envy us.

Its all a matter of opinion of course, but a top 4 place this season looks very unlikely.

Evertonians are too willing to accept any manner of excuse for failure. I have a horrible feeling that without a dramatic change of ownership what we got under OFM was as good as it was ever likely to be.

Now it is Roberto's turn to produce the goods and his main hope is a bunch of youngsters that was nurtured by OFM. At the first sign of things going pear-shaped Evertonians should not rely on these pages to express their disquiet.

I can see the point you are making but exactly what have the other lot achieved in the last five or so years? A League Cup win on penalties and a place in the Champions League is what I remember but perhaps my memory is playing tricks.

If I am correct then it seems to me that they accept failure just as much as we do but their club has spent tens of millions, compared to our measly outlay on players and salaries.

We will be lucky to get 3 players in – not 7.

There are thousands of young EFC fans across the region who have not got the tingle that new signings give. They couldnÂ’t even get their EFC shirts until 2 months after the red kids... You might be happy with BKÂ’s ineptitude but I am certainly not.

That being the case it would be far better to bring your man or men here as soon as possible. If they are married it gives his family a chance to settle a lot quicker and if they're happy so are you and you can concentrate on the task ahead.With our entry into the Europa I think we need a few more bodies.

So, like a lot of others on T/W I am surprised and curious as to why there has been no transfer activity. I hope in the last twelve months or so we have increased our scouting network to root out some hidden talent. It would seem from the interest Roberto is showing in some of these young players he is building for the long haul. But oh how I'd like a quick fix.

I just feel we accept the situation as a kind of fate accompli. Treated like mushrooms and you know what that implies.

I'm sure much of the problem is from the board and in particular their approach to investment (ie, not to make any) a topic we have discussed many times. The OP says we are 'financially comfortable' with our transfer funds, but what does that mean? We have tens of millions accrued as profit in recent windows, each and every time it is promised for the next window, and it never gets spent.

I'd like to think that those considerable accumulated funds, the Sky money and the need for a squad capable of handling a Europa League campaign would mean we would have a budget of 㿔M or more net, but I'd be surprised if we spent much more than half of that and maybe a lot less.

Worst-case scenario is a repeat of previous years; we spend a few bob on players, but substantially less than the marquee player we sell (Baines, Barkley, Stones). We then bring in a couple of loans of second string players from bigger clubs and are told that having Gibson, Kone, Oviedo & Alcaraz back fully fit will be like having four new players.

I'm willing to be patient but frankly, if it is another negligible spend this window, we really do need to be placing more pressure than current on the board and owners, otherwise this will never change.

The only thing to bother me is the Lukaku business. An unsavoury, out of our hands situation which needs to be resolved as soon as possible.

DonÂ’t get me wrong: I totally wanted our former manager gone from about 2008. He was cruising and taking the money as far as I was concerned. You know what, though: I am struggling to see the difference between July 2014 and any other previous July.

I hope I am totally proved wrong; we sign Lukaku, and I have to be honest I would be happy. But right now, my arse has gone and I predict 13th. God I hope I am wrong but all the signs are there.

The implication being we have no money for transfer fees.

"Has it always got to be this way?"

Yes, while we have the current owners.

Because we have to wait for the Sky cheque to clear in the bank and see how much we have available from player sales.

And itÂ’s not only last season, all previous seasons under Moyes were pretty much the same.

Lukaku is another affair now. Long drawn out business with too many commentary from him and Chelsea. I rather not see him with us than gamble more than $15m on him.

We tend to be too excited or disillusioned by the transfer season that we forget that the results during the season is what we use to judge success. Would you prefer we gambled on Lukaku (or any other big money names) early on and then fail to live up to expectations? We havenÂ’t really done that for years now...

I am very excited on that 18 year old Belgian kid. Perhaps RM is just getting started...

9 points to play for including 2 games at home against some of our biggest rivals for top 4 with no one properly equipped to lead the line?

Surely we have to be planning to hit the ground running which must include a top class striker ready and raring to go by August 16th.

Happy to wait to beef up the squad nearer the deadline, but to have a key component missing from the start would be hugely disappointing.

Still three weeks to get something done though, or approximately 12 x 48 hour periods. A lot can be achieved in that time.

• 㾷M for Ross McCormack from Leeds to relegated Fulham;
• 㾺M for Borini;
• ٥.5M rejected by Watford for Troy Deeney;
• Chelsea rumoured to be after 㿀M for a past-it Torres... ;
So itÂ’s "understandable" why theyÂ’d want 㿊M for Lukaku, especially in light of FFP (and bearing in mind theyÂ’ve probably recovered half what they paid for him in loan fees alone).

Bloody annoying being skint. Sadly, because a rising tide lifts all ships etc. we’ll always be lagging behind other clubs – that means even newly promoted or Championship clubs may be able to out-spend us.

Hence why you can understand RMÂ’s focus on the loan market and buying promising youth.

Your disappointment in the way Martinez has become so readily complicit with the way this board does its business is one shared by a growing number of fans.

People can come up with as many pie-in-the-sky excuses as they want, but there were two very obvious reasons as to why Martinez deliberately narrowed this window before it was even open. The first one is obvious: he knew he wasn’t going to be at his desk – well not his Everton one anyway. The second reason is becoming increasingly obvious, He’s toeing the line.

Claims that he had identified 7-8 players who he intended to bring in are now being exposed for what they always were: pie in the sky. Kenwright canÂ’t believe his luck. This manager is even better at leading some of the people, some of the time, up the garden path, than the last one.

The latest sleight of hand was about as subtle as sledgehammer, but when Martinez recently downsized The "7 or 8" signings he promised at the end of last season, to a more realistic "4 or 5", nobody batted an eyelid... it was obviously far more beneficial to our club to slag off BrendaÂ’s signings.

Now we are told that the deals which were going to happen "after the World Cup" may have to wait until transfer deadline day. Martinez is a little more adept at this than Moyes was; nobody is accusing him of "dithering".

Our worthless board no longer seem to feel the need to try to kid most of the people most of the time. They have long since realised that itÂ’s easier pay somebody else to do it for them.

Martinez/Moyes – frying pan/fire.

"We have to be very clear on the players we want. It is going to take until the last day of the transfer window to finalise the squad." — Very clear statement from Roberto.

A little less hysteria please lads.

What hope do we have when calls for the club to be run properly and the manager to stop making promises he cant keep, are dismissed as "hysteria"?

I really hope Kenwright and his cronies donÂ’t read some of these posts... the thought of all those high fives is just too Â’orrible...

I must be a bit out of the loop on this too – what promises has Martinez made that he can’t keep?

The loan system does not work if at the period you cannot sign the player, where is the continuity in that course of action! We are playing for 6th or 7th this season!

Moyes got free reign for keeping his mouth shut until he got the perfect job!? Now itÂ’s too early to judge Roberto, but the more cynical amongst us must be thinking that history might be about to repeat itself maybe?

If we get a pattern like this over two or three seasons, then this would trouble me greatly, but I’m hoping we have a very clever manager, who won’t be rushed off the pitch – in the same way his teams are never rushed on it.

Have a bit of patience, Darren, and remember that itÂ’s taken 12 months for a little Spaniard to unite the fanbase for the first time in 30 years. DonÂ’t let our loveable chairman spoil that just yet, mate!

A man who has been at Everton for 12 months has done something a lifelong Evertonian could never do. HeÂ’s united us under Blue Biil, now please donÂ’t fucking spoil it.....!

Roberto delivered last year and it is assumed he will have the same success this time round but the question is well asked: Why does it always have to be like this? Is the Club really as skint as Kenwright likes to make out?

This OP is a good, reasonably expressed version of the worrying, "glass half-empty" position currently adopted by many ToffeeWebbers. Most of the points raised have answers that have been fully explained on recent threads.

I personally am not too worried, nor am I panicking. IÂ’d rather we just signed players on 1 July, had them in for pre-season and got it all settled early, but the reality is not like that.

I believe the way our club runs transfers is different, not in the negative way many people think, but in the positive way. We are fussier, we demand higher standards in terms of the calibre of person, and we are also looking to Â’beat the marketÂ’ by signing players for less than their potential value.

The first point means we have a settled, gelled squad and new players come in a settle relatively quickly; it also means we donÂ’t sign Â’decentÂ’ players for 㿅M. Neither do we sign random Spanish and other foreign kids for 㾶M who donÂ’t settle, get loaned out and move on within two years. (I know we do sign them but we pay about ٟM and theyÂ’re on much lower wages.)

There are many reassuring posts on the big threads from the last week, so if you want to feel better, read them! But basically we simply donÂ’t need to go out and sign 6-7 players for the sake of it; we need a handful of quality players who will provide us with something we donÂ’t currently have.

There’s an old saying: you can either do it quickly, or you can do it right — which one would you prefer?

ItÂ’s hard to not get frustrated when youÂ’re seeing other clubs splashing the cash. And IÂ’m not on about the big boys either. We are the only club that operates like this year after year. ItÂ’s a joke. We fans deserve better. Our manager deserves better.

Peter Johnson splashed the cash and was hounded out. Kenwright and his pals do sod all and still have the support of the majority. I just donÂ’t get it. WhatÂ’s the difference? Is it because one says he was a boyhood Toffee, and the other was a kopite allegedly?

I just donÂ’t want to miss out on the Champions League places by 3 points and be posting in May about what could have been.

Having said all that, I have faith in Roberto. HeÂ’s quite clearly a man with a plan and I just hope that the reason weÂ’re being tardy with transfers isnÂ’t anything to do with the board as thatÂ’s something which wonÂ’t change any time soon, unfortunately.

We have to be diligent in every purchase we make and we have to rely on the Manager to choose what he wants. We are one of only a few teams that allow the Manager to have full control of all playing activities; when he identifies a player, we then talk.

We agreed terms with Ba advisors but he choose for religious purposes to play in Turkey, thatÂ’s out of our control but we look around again and carry on. EFC promise to use the Academy; whilst financially viable to do so , it is exactly what German clubs have been doing for years. If we do have a talent underneath, then the wealth of brand Everton will come to the top. I predict some players coming in the next 14 days but I see us only finishing between 8th and 6th this year (I hope IÂ’m wrong).

However, I feel off the field we will become much more healthy. Prudency in the next 12 to 24 months will see EFC putting in place some major positive re-build programmes that will allow us to generate more money long term as a standalone business. Using this extra cash to fund higher player wages isnÂ’t the best way forward for us.

We as fans all want Champions League and to see us lifting a cup but football today is on another madness curve with five or six teams spending in access of 𧴜 million on player purchases let alone their wages. We canÂ’t and should not enter this market.

There is nothing wrong with wanting the best for our club but we must re-build in line with our means. IÂ’m looking forward to another Nuremberg away trip this year and hopefully with a bit of luck a cup, but the league sadly is not on our radar, yet!

The reason for the delay is quite obvious: RM has put all his eggs and the majority of the transfer fund into hoping that Chelsea sell us Lukaku. Now what happens if either they donÂ’t sell him or Lukaku chooses another club?

I hope he has a plan B in case either of these scenarios happen – although, by the time we get an answer to will he or wont he, RM might have to have a Plan C and Plan D as maybe his other options will have been snapped up as well!

We needed to re-sign or replace the four loans from last year (Lukaku, Traore, Barry, Deulofeu) and sign an extra central midfielder. If all that gets done weÂ’ll be in decent shape with long-term absentees returning and genuinely promising young players whoÂ’ve experienced serious competitive football in the lower leagues bolstering the squad.

IÂ’d rather do it that way than spend 㿅M on Lallana, or buy c.20 french speaking players and no English speaking players over the course of 3 years.

I seriously think we will not sign anyone over ٣ Million (without selling someone); the rest will be loans.

The same old lines will be used by the club...

"We are actively searching for new players all the time, we still want three or four players." (At the start of summer, this figure was seven.)

"We like loans, we have proved the system works, thereÂ’s not a lot of risk for the club."

"Well, we tried to get Rom, but in the end it never came down to our decision, he wanted such-and-such a team."

Last season, we signed McCarthy for 㾹 Million on TDD, and we were told more than once "this transfer was not dependent on selling Fellaini." If this was the case, why did we wait till 22:55 to do the McCarthy deal?

Same old... I donÂ’t know why people continue to fall for the spins, the lies and controlled media by the club.

Dominic King from the Daily Mail posted the Lukaku story on Friday night and then has not mentioned it since. ItÂ’s clearly a spin article from Kenwright.

If not able to, a little less feet-stamping please.

That "Martinez/Moyes – frying pan/fire" comment is the most ludicrous comment I have seen on here for a while, and that is a very keenly contested competition. Both have excellent records as managers of Everton and both have excellent records in the transfer market. Who would you have rather had as our manager over the last 12 years – they have outperformed nearly everybody.

Martin O’Neill (bankrupted Villa’s sugar daddy)? Owen Coyle? Big Sam? That idiot up at Newcastle? Kevin Keegan? Mark Hughes, SAF (as if he would come) – any one of the 25 managers that Spurs have had in that period?

Our performance over the last decade given our resources has been OUTSTANDING. To suggest otherwise is impressively delusional. Yes, I want to win, but I am realistic about how it may transpire. Keep a good manager and let him build up a good team under the radar and get lucky... or get a new owner. The new owner thing hasnÂ’t happened yet so IÂ’ll go with Plan A for now.

"One thing must be said about delightful gobshites is unlike us they will not accept failure".

Well, Dick, I totally disagree, totally. ItÂ’s almost 25 years and still those spend-a-lot fuckers have yet to win the league. RefereeÂ’s and wow, those men in black have really, really tried their best; the FA, Sky, most of the media rags and a zillion top class players (passing through their ever revolving player door) have not helped one single bit in their goal to bring that prized trophy to Anfield.

You may think that they don’t accept failure but those armchair scarf waving, once-in-a-lifetime visitors to Anfield have been accepting failure very well. As a matter of fact, they are infamous for it – try talking to any RS about Gerrard’s "slip" or better still, try getting a conversation going along the lines of "So you were 3-up against Palace, gosh, how many more goals did you get?"

Most of the media may want it, the FA would probably love it, and the Echo would be spunking for weeks; but believe me, the Spawn of Satan are very, very good at accepting failure.

If the 3 brought in are of a similar level, rather than being young hopefuls, then thatÂ’s not too bad, given how things went last year. However the fly in the ointment is the Europa League which I personally see as something of a poisoned chalice. It seems the general rule is that a clubÂ’s league form suffers when they are participating in this.

Bearing in mind our squad at times looked fairly threadbare last year even, without this added distraction, that is a concern for the coming season. One can argue that we have several decent players returning from injury but the reality is, there are always injuries and you have to allow for them.

Is RM going to blood youth in the Europa League and protect the best players for the Premier League? An alternative, but very risky approach would be to prioritise the Europa League, because this gives a Champions League spot this year.

One could argue this is a more viable way for us to achieve that holy grail than getting ahead of the half of the six clubs in the Premier League who massively outspend us. Looking at the clubs whoÂ’ve made the final in the past 8-10 years, I think we could be very competitive in that company. Even Fulham nearly won it a couple of years back.

The risk is getting into a relegation dogfight as a result, but I for one would settle for 15th in the Premier League if it meant we had a good run in the Europa. At least it would make a change from business as usual. What I donÂ’t think we can do based on the squad strength we seem to be heading for, is compete effectively for both.

No wonder we usually start seasons poorly with this joke of a policy.

YouÂ’re VERY easily pleased Dennis...

BarkleyÂ’s odds on joining City have shrunk from 9/4 to 13/8.

Then I hope that premise is wrong. If we end up repeating all the past seasons – sell a marquee player, spend half, bank the rest – then my loyalty to this club is going to be under severe strain.

We seem to be forgetting the lads who have or about to emerge through the ranks who may surprise some people. Stones is one such player who is in my mind more complete in his position than Barkley at this stage. McGeady I am sure will be fitter and ready to impress this season along with Gibbo and a more confident Naismith.

The squad is quite sound but may need a new target man as things are at the moment and I am sure that will be taken care of soon.

a) The transfer window still has a long long way to go;
b) WeÂ’ve signed Barry permanently, a key target (if not our most important for this window);
c) Most of the players signed by Prem clubs so far we wouldnÂ’t touch with a barge pole... so itÂ’s useless saying "so-and-so club have signed x players already". (Spurs have not even signed anyone yet.);
d) We look like weÂ’re about to sign 2 more players in the coming week;
e) Loads of World Cup players are still on holiday;
f) We have Gibson, Kone and Oviedo still to fully come back.

Basically stop the teeth-gnashing and stay patient – the season doesn’t start for almost another month! (Yes, I know pre-season is important but the main thing is to have the right players, regardless if they join 1 August or 31 August.)

LetÂ’s try to leave the panic and complaints until 2 September, by which time weÂ’ll know exactly what type of squad we have for the season. We didnÂ’t do too badly last year afterall...

Logging on to ToffeeWeb and reading conflicting views, disagreements, far-fetched scenarios and deep cynicism. Does it always have to be this way?

Stop wasting your energy on message boards in the middle of pre-season, find some patience and save your views until Sky Sports pack away their Deadline Day circus show. That will be the time to take stock, and even then it will be too early to know whether we have just done good or bad business.

Also another reason we do business late in the window is because we are trying to buy from other Premier League teams. For example, Manure will not sell Cleverly without LVG watching him in pre-season. Lukaku is still on holiday, ffs.

Chill out and have a bit of faith, please.

People have mentioned that the loan system has worked, and it has; people have mentioned that the window is open until the 1st September and how itÂ’s fine as we brought Barry, Lukaku and Deulofeu in last season.

We played three PL games before the deadline when we signed those three — Norwich, West Brom and Cardiff. We weren’t ready and as a result dropped 9 points against two teams that were relegated and one that went very close.

9 points is a lot, more than the difference between us and Arsenal last season.

Centre backs are aging but Alcaraz looks more of a European style defender to me, so can be used in the Europa League, whilst Distin and Jagielka can be relied for another year.

Pienaar is one that worries me, and I think needs replacing, but other than that, I think Roberto knows what heÂ’s doing and is not panicking, and neither should we.

The panic is coming from what other teams are doing but, like previous posters have said, their business is coming at transfers which are way over the odds. Look at Liverpool with Markovic and Lallana, or Man Utd with Herrera and Shaw, way too much, and Everton canÂ’t afford to do that.

IÂ’m just waiting for this Drogba transfer to come through, then we can get Lukaku. It could also be when we receive the TV money we might start buying people.

Still plenty of time, and tired and bored of this panicking, because it happens every year, and most times, we have conducted good summer transfer window.

If my memory serves me well, did we not do this with James Beattie? After struggling to score against Villarreal, didnÂ’t we panic-buy him after we were eliminated??

It seems the club must have a tacit policy of not buying early... it even took us the whole summer to finalize the Barry deal. Every year, I promise I wonÂ’t get upset by this.... but every year they get to me again!!

An impatient, bored, crowd, desperate to see the slightest bit of action and reduced to baying for blood on the back of some handily rejigged Â’factsÂ’. A melodramatic ringmaster trying his best to rouse the rabble by informing Roberto "ItÂ’s time to start RUNNING!!!....:(...seriously..IÂ’m not messing with ya....get a fucking move on lad!":

"Martinez has become so readily complicit with the way this board does its business".

How so? What basis is there for that accusation?

Failing to complete all transfer dealings, 6 whole weeks before the actual deadline, doesn’t mean he’s colluding in pulling the wool over people’s eyes or laying down diversionary fire while Bill legs it with all the loot. It doesn’t mean he’s took his eye of the ball. It doesn’t mean he’s displayed incompetence or indecision. It doesn’t mean he’s simply stood by, shrugging his shoulders, while an inept board stumble about dazed and confused like Peter Beagrie trying to figure out why the fuck accelerating his motorbike at 88 miles per hour didn’t activate the flux capacitor á la ’Back to the Future’ but instead just left him with big shards of bastard glass protruding from his blood sapped ’tash.

"Martinez deliberately narrowed this window before it was even open"

That criticism doesnÂ’t even make sense when Martinez has repeatedly stated that heÂ’s willing to go to the very wire on deadline day to make signings if need be, whilst people on here are wailing and kicking off because they want all business to be done and dusted right now.

"Martinez recently downsized The "7 or 8" signings he promised at the end of last season, to a more realistic "4 or 5" nobody batted an eyelid"

Firstly, it wasnÂ’t "7 or 8" and it wasnÂ’t specifically "signings" he was referring to. He said he wanted to increase the depth of the first team squad with "six or seven" new players, intimated that some of this number could be promoted youth players and reaffirmed his willingness to reach back into the lucky-dip loan bag:
...........
"If we get in Europe I think that makes a difference of six players. I always found you can work on a squad of 21 players in the league and for domestic competitions. You need around 27 players plus keepers for Europe. It doesnÂ’t have to be 27 senior players, it can be young players too, but 27......When you are playing in Europe you need six or seven new players. ThatÂ’s the reality and we will do that".
............
He didnÂ’t say "We will do that by the middle of July", did he? He also didnÂ’t say, "We will do it when I can be arsed. IÂ’m a bit busy right now. IÂ’m going the World Cup to be on the telly and I wonÂ’t be doing anything else at all while IÂ’m there except maybe eating, shitting and soaking in the bath for hours and hours until my skinÂ’s totally shrivelled. Seriously, iÂ’ll be in their so long that when I get out.....scrotum like a hamsters handbag".

I say this because, although I have been very bullish this far in the off-season, the failure to see our Manager recruit any new faces to the team with just 3 weeks to go to the new campaign leaves me anxious and worried in that we have done nothing to replace or at least restore the threat that was prevalent in the two magnificent players in Lukaku and Deulofeu, of whom we have seen the last of or have since departed.

Watching all other clubs dive into the transfer market including even the likes of Stoke, Hull, et al is reminiscent of the former administration in how they dragged their feet and handled transfers (or the lack of them). Has anything changed at EFC?We are badly in need of additions given the fact that we will be challenging in Europe this term.

I am so depressed. Is it just me or are there there more out there who just want to bang their heads against an inanimate object?

WeÂ’ll get the usual shouts to get behind the manager, team etc and then, when we fall away to mediocrity again and slink poorly out of all the cups, people will be calling for the managerÂ’s head. And rightly so.

He seems to be doing his best David Moyes impressions already. No doubt I’ll get hammered here for being negative etc but you all know I’m right and no amount of excuses – money, the stadium blah blah blah – changes the facts.

Excuses are for losers and the piss-poor attitude of many of the club’s fans will have to change if we are ever to get back to the real Everton FC – a club that WINS things.

Fire away.

I can understand why some will say we shouldnÂ’t let one player dictate our entire summer, and it is a risky policy if Rom ultimately doesnÂ’t come. The other argument is where else do we find a 21 year old striker whoÂ’s proven in the PL and familiar with our club and manner of play if we donÂ’t see the Lukaku deal through to the end?

I would hope Everton have a fair idea on what LukakuÂ’s intentions are as well as the likely asking price and I for one am prepared to be patient as I believe signing Lukaku permanently has the potential to be one of our most important transfer moves in years.

What worries me is that in 12 months time when the board stitch him up for a second summer in a row he will say fuck you and walk and I donÂ’t see much in the way of a replacement out there right now who will put up with Bullshit Bill and his tight arsed cronies

Well said mate, absolutely spot on!

Get yourself an ice cold beer.
Tremendous post,sums up the posters who are just making it up as they go along to suit their argument.
Not many facts in their arguments,but wtf if it sounds good they will post it.

Would that be the mediocrity of a record points gained season like last season?
Roberto in his first season broke the record by,i believe,7 points.

Negativity like you display has gone out of the window with ginger minge.

Presume Henen and Traore are 2 of those, so is it safe to assume Lukaku is in the bag?

Credit where itÂ’s due

"At the moment there is nothing to report. We know exactly who we want to bring in and games like last night were important because I want to give the youngsters as much opportunity as I can and then make the final decisions on the areas we strengthen in.

"This season, we need to make sure the numbers in the squad are bigger but at the moment there is nothing to update our fans and when there is, they will be the first ones to know."

Just a question of trust - and patience!!! Not easy, so IÂ’ll trust with IMpatience ;-)

There you go lads.
Any amount of insisting on transfers NOW! are not working.

By "tending to things"......
He has responded to a particular demand to get busy now though :-)

I think this whole debate is about one thing though. Being the poor one out of the top 5, maybe 6-7 (or even the whole league) if we consider our status from a neutral position, why are we complaining about spending money we don’t really have? Our transfer activity, from a sheer count and dollar perspective, sucks big time. Does that matter to our performance during the season? Sure, but would spending the $20-30m we don’t have make things better? The game is about the team, not only that 1-2 extra players we bring in.

What I prefer to worry about is, are we making good decisions when we do in the transfer market? I’d like to think that RM will be here for a long time and that his vision, however frugal he is now, is to build a dynasty with us. That is my dream of course. Do I worry that he hasn’t brought in the players we think he should? Not really. I can’t spend what I don’t have. Not without dire consequences anyway when things go wrong, as they always do.

BTW, Neymar would be a bad loan signing...LOL

For those who insist on bringing Kenwright’s name into this, what can I say, there’s not the slightest shred of evidence at this stage that he’s blocked or delayed any signings.

If Martinez and Kenwright fail to deliver the goods I won’t hold back from criticism, but until the transfer window has closed I prefer to wait before passing judgement.

All in all, an excellent combination.

As ever hugely entertaining, but you’ve asked me to substantiate my posts with a few facts . . .

You say the claim that Martinez narrowed the transfer window makes "no sense" . Let me explain

I base the claim purely on fact. When Martinez told us we wouldn’t be doing any business until after the World Cup, he was effectively wiping out the first two weeks of the window. He told us this before a ball was kicked, so he was making a conscious and deliberate decision – deliberately narrowing the window. Given what we know, John, I’m not sure if the claim is even contestable.

You ask me what I base my "accusation" that Martinez was readily complicit with the way this board does business. Okay...

This is his third transfer window and nearly all of his signings have been made on the board’s favourite day . . .(transfer deadline day). He told us himself that he had money to spend last January; why, when we were bang in the hunt for Champions League qualification, did he not spend it? Why did he not strengthen? And why is he telling us now that he will be "finalising" transfers on the last day? if he isn’t complicit with our board’s way of doing business, how does he know so far in advance that his signings won’t already be done?

Martinez has quite clearly downsized on the signings he promised, whether he said six, seven or eight is neither here nor there; if what I read above is true, he is now talking about three? To now start claiming that he was including youngsters who were already at the club, smacks a little of desperation. Sure he spoke about promoting from the youth, but so has every other manager; was it not a separate issue?

He may not have wet his finger and crossed his heart when he told us about his plans to bring in six or more players (I don’t know; I wasn’t there) but he knew what he was saying and IMO he knew on whose behalf he was saying it. You cannot lead fans up a garden path like that...

Actually I’m wrong there; reading some of the responses here, it seems you can.

I’ve done my best to answer your questions, John. Contrary to claims from people who have never met me, I am not impatient, I am not shitting myself, I am not even "melodramatic"; I’m extremely calm, because above all, I’m not in the least surprised. When I and others claim it’s better to do business early, we are not panicking, we are merely stating the obvious.

Kenwright wants fucking shooting if he has just delayed his joining us to save 6 weeks wages. We need bodies in now getting to adjust to the way RM wants us to play.

Anyone else think this Henen bloke was Robbie’s No 1 target all summer???? Do we fuck, he has probably just been offered to us by his agent.. What a bunch of gullible bastards we all must beÂ…

In the interest of genuine debate Darren,you can’t just make things up to suit your argument as you go along

Talk on here of Hull, Stoke + others buying players and spending plenty, yes they do every year, where do they finish in relation to us each season.

At the moment we are down Lukaku (big loss) and Del Boy (was good in parts/was waste of space early in season + out for a number of weeks with a hamstring)
Lukaku may still end up back here, who knows.

So whatÂ’s the answer, go out and buy any Tom, Dick or Harry, Martinez may have identified the players he wanted but its not as simple as that is it!

Look at the teams were up against each season, City, Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal, Spurs and guess who, they have money coming out of their earholes and thereÂ’s still talk on here of us finishing in the top 4!

Yes we can hope, but its far from likely is it.

I’ve never had you down as a panic merchant. A bit of a curmudgeonly arl git maybe?

I recognise the points you’re trying to make (because, no matter the content, you do state your case very clearly). However, it just seems to me that, whenever you spot something that might (legitimately) cause a slight twinge of concern, instead of waiting for any real evidence to emerge, you choose instead to accelerate straight to beating the suspect about the face with a phone book, before chucking him in a cell and promising him such a big role in ’Bukkake Boys Behind Bars 2’ that he’ll spend the rest of the afternoon staggering about looking like an albino version of ’Slimer’ from Ghostbusters.

Basically, you’re Judge Dredd, when Martinez’s misteps thus far barely even merit a mild ticking off from that hatchet-faced old hag with the mothballed minge in ’Murder She Wrote’.

For example:

"When Martinez told us we wouldn’t be doing any business until after the World Cup, he was effectively wiping out the first two weeks of the window".

Yes, I realise that he was working in a TV studio for a few weeks but how do you know, for definite, that those, hardly all consuming duties negated him doing any behind-the-scenes work on Everton’s behalf? You don’t.

Furthermore, people are pissing and moaning and making out that all deals should have been done by now, thereby disregarding the fact that there’s still over five weeks of the transfer window still to go. That, to me, is a more glaring attempt at "narrowing the window".

"This is his third transfer window and nearly all of his signings have been made on the board’s favourite day . . .(transfer deadline day)"

None of Kone, Robles and Alcaraz were signed on deadline day. Neither were McGeady or Barry (this window).

His only other, permanent signing has been McCarthy, who did sign on deadline day. If you’re including loans then Barry and Lukaku can be added to the deadline day score card but Deulofeu and Traore were snapped up earlier than that.

So that’s 3 signed on deadline day and 7 who were not. Hardly "nearly all" is it?

Never mind though. We’ll forget about all that and place our faith in your Columboesque instincts. He’s got guilty written all over his face hasn’t he? Shifty looking Spanish twat.

I should have factored Alcaraz, Deulofeu and Traore into the equation but, as we we’re talking about complicity with the board’s policy, I didn’t think freebies would be relevant.

Nice sleight of hand to engineer a majority by claiming the Barry signing too – I barely saw your lips move.

I don’t mean to come on so often and bash Robbie, but what often starts out as mild criticism of him, escalates. when one of the "he can do no wrong" crew challenges you to "prove it"... and so it goes.

Judge Dread, eh? Somebody has already txted me about that... I knew I should have given your post a wide berth.

Are you saying you progressively slag Martinez more because "it escalates when I am asked to prove it"? That is a silly approach, if you don’t mind me saying.

Hopefully you can stick to facts in future debate, Darren; we can enjoy our difference of opinion then.

If you don’t rate Martinez as a manager, and doubt his character, fair enough.

And Darren.... if you were to describe the spirit of your posts, I wonder what that would be?

Anyone else have a theory that fits the facts better? We are run by some kind of Bondish super villain that cunningly decides to time all transfers so they happen on deadline day to save 3 weeks wages and shave 0.03% off our wage bill?

Very much played down the Rom speculation as ’out of our hands’ but claimed the re-signing of Barry as ’everything we are trying to do here’.

Make of it what you will.

The last Â’WonderkidÂ’ was Martin Murray.....

....and IÂ’m still wondering.

At last a bit of common sense. Martinez is a clearly very intelligent man. The thought of this guy sitting down with a gormless look on his face as Kenwright led him up the garden path is truely laughable. Anybody who truly believes he signed on the dotted without knowing exactly what he could expect and what was expected of him, should be living in a cuckoo clock.

You’re right, of course, we are all complicit with our bosses wishes and despite the desperate denials and the howls of protestation, and the angst. Not a single one of has put up a semi-credible post to prove otherwise.

In answer to you second question; I guess I would probably come across exactly the way JD #109 described me in his opening sentence.

I guess you ask because you think I dislike Martinez, but thats not true, what I dislike is the sycophancy which has somehow taken root. Its not support as I know it, with some its just blind devotion, you cannot question the manager, facts are denied, the incontestable is contested.
If you are not singing Robbies praises you must be lying.

I enjoyed the exchange with John Daley, He’s a skilled debater, who will expose flaws in your argument and he will do it with humour... but I need to get myself out of these threads about Martinez. I don’t see the point in taking part in debates where certain individuals will return a dozen times in one thread simply to try to shout down criticism of their idol.

This is a brilliant site full of information and knowledgeable Blues, people who understand the difference between supporting the club and having a hard-on for the manager. Those are the people whose posts I shall be reading in future.

Good luck to the chaps who have that relationship with their boss.
He must think you are worth your weight in gold.

You are a lucky man if you can afford to go through your career without sacrificing your principles for those of your principal !

Perhaps I move in the wrong circles.

Perhaps you do move in the wrong circles.

Thankfully Roberto, who you accused of complicity, doesn't.

Or in other words 'why do so many blokes wait until Christmas Eve before they go Christmas shopping...?'

Compelling events have a power of their own.

I'll have to try that one on the missus next time she catches me watching a bit of Frankie.

Nope. Stay in them. You post many solid opinions and are a pretty good debater, yourself.

Regarding Roberto's role in Everton's transfer policy, a couple things:

Sid's OP comment, "Even Roberto now seems to have readily embraced the whole unedifying process that shapes the transfer dealings of our football club" and your post at (35), ". . . the way Martinez has become so readily complicit with the way this board does its business. . .". were off the mark.

I don't think Roberto suddenly "readily embraced" or became "readily complicit" in anything. He'd have been apprised of how Everton approach transfer business during his job interview. If he didn't agree to it, he wouldn't have been hired, period.

Stay in the debate, brother. Lot of good stuff posted here, pro and con, by any number of Evertonians. Including you.

As far as the back and forth about "complicit"? You were leaving your chin hanging out there a bit.

Just a thought: If you cock a deaf un, turn a blind eye to the gaffer's shenanigans, he may work you off the shifts nobody else will work?

Worth a try.

I don't think anyone is critical of you for sometimes questioning Martinez ability. I know in my case, its the fact that every single initial post you make is a criticism. Why always the negativity, why are there not some posts that feature what actions his has got right?

Come on, lets have a balanced view off you, not one that appears to be a vendetta!

I have to admit that I don't like following the crowd with my views normally, but I don't think there's much doubt that Martinez is destined for the top of his chosen career.

I'm beginning to think you like being controversial because you just enjoy a good argument, probably the topic doesn't matter.

You really are having a laugh aren't you... YOU calling for balance?

When anybody posts anything other than gushing praise about your idol, you or your 14 post a thread fellow worshiper are onto them like a shot .

I've never seen a reasoned response from either of you, where you attack the points? ... You either attack the people making them or offer this "fingers in the ear, Somebody make him stop, How very dare you!" bollox

Because you guys think Robbie is absolutely flawless, you can't believe others don't, It can't be healthy... How is our boss ever going improve with guys like you constantly telling him he is already perfect?

Balance Raymond? If Michael and Lyndon are giving a TW Pot, Kettle, Black, Award. this year, you may as well start preparing your acceptance speech.

In the interest of debate I have asked you specific questions on numerous occasions "attacking the points"

Silence is your response.

You make sweeping statements that have no factual basis,then resort to immature insults.As shown above.

If you would like me to ask the questions again,one at a time,please let me know.
It is not just the Martinez threads you make things up either.

Over to you.

.....

"It was 95 degrees in the shade, a dust storm was swirling around Main Street. Tumbleweed was seen to occasionally blow through"...

Possibly another one or 2 loan players. Roberto, said 6 players to be brought in and he's only 1 short! He's ahead not behind shortly transfers-wise wouldn't you say? And there is still lots of time to spare before season starts.

Irish International Jackie Coulter was playing for Celtic FC Belfast against Ballymena in 1934 and managed to get himself sent off. Whilst waiting for the match to end, Jackie was approached by an Everton official, shook hands and signed for ٠,750. Not sure how the specifics were carried out, but when the players returned to the changing room, they learned Jackie was off!

Now that's getting it done.