Welcome to the Asylum

I hope he has a good look at himself in the mirror and that someone from the board, his backroom staff or a senior player have the balls to tell him the current set up is just not working.

I just hope to hell things can change.

Although the last 6 games of last season we were showing signs of what we are seeing this season. The big question is can he change things, I am afraid if he doesnt the boos that followed some of our football against Hull will get louder and more often I fear. I have never booed and don’t see it does much good except encourage the opposition, but some argue I pay my money and if thats how I want to show my displeasure then I will.
I did find his appointment in the first place rather strange, I mean I couldnt ever see Everton appointing a manager who had just got his previous side relegated. And playing in exactly the same way as we are now, everyone used to comment about Wigan that they play nice football but concede too many goals to stay up.

The question is why are we so close to those teams? I think I agree with many posters who have said that our current system doesn’t suit our players and the players are showing us out on the pitch that it doesn’t suit them - but will the manager change his style? - I can’t see it happening any time soon and there’s the rub the players appear not to enjoy playing to this style whilst the fans or quite a lot of the fans don’t appear to be enjoying watching this style so immediately we have a conflict of interests between the manager and the players / fans.

Roberto has to understand that he is responsible for the playing style and to the supporters of Everton FC. His first duty is to the club and if what the players are producing out on the pitch is failing he has to address it and change because sticking to his tried and ’trusted’ methods will in all probability see a parting of the ways sooner or later and like many I hope that doesn’t happen - but the club comes first and nobody is bigger than the club.

Martinez will NOT change his philosophy, principles and how/must he feels the game must be played. Years ago, he got to thinking that the British game was old-fashioned and needed to adapt to Spanish methods. He may well have been right. Then. The trouble is, our game has absorbed a lot of the lessons and moved on. Other managers have flirted with ticci tacca or ’PAATB’ and have rapidly realised it don’t work here and have moved on.

The Spanish game despises ’defending’ as we know it but here it is a vital aspect of our game. It is Everton’s hard luck that it has fetched up with the one guy whose arrogance determines he must prove a point. He came here believing that he could get our higher grade players to become ’total footballers’ and that ’positions’ were irrelevant. He can’t and they aren’t. Everton is paying the price just as Wigan did.

I said when he was hired he was not my choice but was willing to give him a chance and last season he did well and raised our hopes for the future.

Looking back to last season I am now wondering if the success was because he was not able to get all the players playing the style he wanted and was getting by with the defensive set up in place.

This season we have showed no consistency in our performances and Martinez simply shows no ideas of how to set up a defence and simply is dumbfounded in trying to outcoach the opposition manager.

We now have one of the highest goals against scores in the premier with only QPR and Leicester having more. Mr Martinez has only had 2 successful seasons in his managerial career 1 with Swansea and the other last season with Everton I am not including the cup win with Wigan as he got them relegated.

The style and philosophy that the manager wants to use is fine if all aspects of the game are included and that includes defence as well as attack. I believe in the expression that goals get you points defence wins you games.

We have a major problem with Martinez in that (a) he is unable to combine a defence with his tactics or (b) he firmly believes his style is not the problem. With the club he previously managed his goals against was usually the highest in the premier and he done nothing to cure it.

Everton better not continue to allow a manager to continue with a system that is dragging them down and getting their supporters who have been there a long time before and will be there along time after he is gone to become so disappointed in the image on the field that the club is becoming.

We do not want to become a Tottenham with new managers every other year; but I think that BK should take note of their chairman as he doe’s not sit on his backside smiling and saying how well the manager is doing he gets rid of incompetent people.

Only time will tell but if the Spaniard needs lessons on setting up his team from a TWer - even one as revered as your goodself - then he can hardly have been worthy of the job in the first place. And he wasn’t !

Jagielka getting stick is plain stupid. Without his last ditch match-of-the-day tackles we would have been beaten (more) comprehensively in many games this season. Once he got over being a scapegoat for Enger-landÂ’s false belief that Gerrard and Henderson are the greatest midfield partnership in the premier league he has been immense for us. Distin, on the other hand, is no longer a starter.

Coleman is going. His drop in form is Torresesque. The Lukaku signing had to be funded somehow and heÂ’ll be playing in the capital before the end of January.

Mirallas has been one of our bright spots this season and is one of my favourites. But, saying in the media that heÂ’ll leave for CL football if we donÂ’t make it is beyond the pail. IÂ’d fine him two weeks wages and tell him that he can fuck off back to Olympi-arse-ache if they qualify. Twat.

I can harp on about the players all night but the fault is squarely on RMÂ’s shoulders. Twatting about at the back has never worked for a single team... ever! It invites pressure, what the fuck is he thinking? Has he lost the plot? He had his McClaren wally with the brolly moment yesterday. I was expecting the announcement today that heÂ’d been fired but all quiet on the north western front. If I was BK IÂ’d tell him he had 3 games to turn this around. Either dig in for a result or display some attacking intent.

Football is about scoring goals not how many time we can pass a ball between two center backs. I want to see a striker nodding one in at the back post, a left back bursting into the box after a give and go, a midfielder unleashing a hammer from 30 yards, a winger catching one on the volley from the corner of the box. What I donÂ’t want to see is a Lidl version of tippy-tappy so some championship manager can enhance his "profile".

Unless he changes his ways this week... Martinez out!.... There! I said it.

But now on the basis of his diabolical preseason preparation and team selection so far this season I really want him gone ASAP.

And yes a lot of the supporters thought the managers you mentioned were doing a good job but reading the comments on TW I am not to sure Martinez is getting the same support.

I am all in favour for giving a manager a chance but in saying that he has to realise that if his style is not working he has to change and at this time Martinez is still trying to put square pegs in round holes and will not admit it .

You can not stick blindly to something that is not working even if it is not having the players who have the quality to do it or other managers have found it easy to limit its success.

Distin seriously don’t give a shit, but he’s a pro, he’ll play and try to do what RM asks him to do, but after what he achieved last season, you can see he no longer cares. He’s definitely off in June but if things can be sorted I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go in Jan.

Barry - Getting a 3 year deal has got to be applauded for someone with such limited footy skills. This 3 year deal will take him very close to his 40’s, fuck it, I admire the guy for achieving that deal. Money definitely goes to money. Twat.

Howard - not one goal at St. Mary’s was his fault. We can talk all day as to whether he’s shite but no goals in the 3 nil hammering were his fault. When teams cross the ball into your box, especially from a dead ball, then your defenders had better have their eyes open. Fuckoff, not Everton, let’s put Lukaku & Eto in the centre of the box and watch them both do absolutely nothing. Where the fuck were Jags & Distin. Howard had no chance with the first. The 2nd goal was a contest between Jags, Disitin and Coleman as to who could be the most shite. I mean, a simple cross into our box, our 3 defenders against two attackers, yep simples, we concede. The third goal, well putting it simple both Barry and Baines are both playing shite, so when the cross came in my dead cat could of scored against them two. So for me, what the fuck is Howard supposed to do when not one of the outfield players are doing anything that can be remotely considered as "defending".

RM - the honeymoon would seem to be over for the media lover boy, the boo’s against QPR must of told him what’s coming. But really, the fact that GP is turning into a fucking morgue watching a style of football that no one understands, just the fact that Distin and Jags get about 3000 touches of the ball almost every game and Lukaku get’s about 6. Fuck me, even Howard gets in about 2000 touches. I would just like a simple explanation from RM, without the words wonderful or phenomenal, that explains why.

Baines & Coleman - what the fuck has happened there. The elite full backs, wing backs or whatever, both playing wonderful linkup footy are now both playing shite. WTF.

Barkley - great when playing in the centre, shite on the wing. Great when playing in the centre. Shite on the fucking wing. So guess where RM like’s to play him.

Finally for RM; not sure how things went down at Wigan when you insisted on your style of play even when things went tits up. All I can say is bring your hardest hard hat, because things are going to get fucking cosy if Stoke get anything at GP on Friday. Also a big plus, have a word with the back four about defending because, putting it simple, Stoke are not going to be interested in watching us play tippy tappy football.

In Spain, you learn all this from six years of age. Trouble is our man is trying to create this footballing Utopia with guys who’ve been playing it another way for 30 years and have little wish to change. Result ? Chaos !

They have a much bigger bankroll, kit deal and sponsor than we do and can afford to spend big, even if they do waste most of it.

We on the other hand. Do not have a pot to piss in, the kit deal is a fucking joke and have a poor sponsorship deal.

We are worlds apart...

What we all hope for is that he has the wisdom to make those changes in his make-up necessary to get the team back on track. He has some good players and it shouldn’t be too difficult.

If he fails it will not be lack of resources as some on here suggest, it will be because of his own intransigence. But is this Catalan for turning ?

We are about to find out.

Martinez out for me.

I know that’s probably tongue in cheek from you, Colin. Can’t wait, too. What worries me is why not until February? He obviously sees his tactics as ok. Surely he can’t think it will take then for the war-wounded to be ready again. So does he mean match-fitness? Surely not! I really am at a loss to know why not until February.

Rumours are we have repesentives in France talking to the agent of Ben Arfa now that hull have terminated his contract and he is a free agent.

Yep I was at Palace for last years 0-0 bore fest and yes Distin did have words with fellow blues because like us he wanted a win but obviously he felt the team had tried whereas we felt the team were shite. I think we agreed to disagree. So, back to real time, it’s obvious that his recent "private" chat with RM has left him with no doubt that his future at GP is over, but the guy is an honest pro and really Saturday was "just another day at the office" so to speak. My previous post acknowledges this fact and I’m guessing that as soon as Stones is available we may of well have seen the last of Distin.

Yep Stoke are going to be tough on Friday, they will put it about and give our CB’s and Howard a tough time regarding our "play it from the back" wankish style of play. Fuck RM, I hope our CB’s kick it long at every opportunity and ask Lukaku to do a bit of work, go and get that ball. Believe me, the crowd will respond to Lukaku efforts.

He also won’t be sacked, he signed a new 5 year deal in the summer, the club won’t pay him off. Were skint again with the Rom deal.

People need to rally around a cup run in the FA cup and EL. It’s frustrating given the highs of last season (73 points in 8 of the last 10 years gets you 4th, I think one of those seasons it would have got you 2nd), I understand peoples concerns, but the ’relegation’ shouts are just ridiculous.

If a team has a weakness against high balls into the box then its up to Roberto to target this weakness and hit the long balls.

I feel instead of looking at the opposition and playing/picking a side to suit, he’s just totally obsessed with the philosophy.

I honestly believe he’d rather get beat 2-0 playing his way than sacrifice his principles for a gritty 1-0 win. That worries me immensely.

Its not all about you Roberto

Besides his stubbornness he’s to nice a guy. Players know the effort doesn’t matter Mr. Nice Guy won’t take away their first XI place.

I watched their game away to Arsenal, which they needed to win to retain any chance of staying up, and for the first hour they were fantastic but in the last twenty minutes Arsenal stepped up and turned them over.

Whether a more direct approach would’ve made any difference is debatable but we’ve already had one example where he refused to change in the face of the worst possible outcome so don’t expect him to do so now.

Hopefully he can retain his philosophy whilst adapting it to outfox managers who have sussed out its current incarnation. If not performances could well stagnate, confidence will drop through the floor and points will dry up.

The things that winds me up more than anything is people talk about his philosophy not being about defending it’s about scoring more goals than the opposition - our shot rate (on and off target) and goals for tally is hardly prolific.

I’m happy to say I’ll be there on Boxing Day - I think it could be a real wake up call for the players and manager. Both need to ’up’ everything.

Any dog wil fight for it’s life when threatened or cornered, which is what Wigan did in that Arsenal game.
They still came up short though and as you said. Arsenal just went up a gear and snuffed them out.

We can only play that way when McCarthy is on the pitch. Without him, all of our defenses crumble. Watching both Tottenham goals, I said, "That doesn’t happen if McCarthy is there."

We won’t get relegated. We won’t even finish as low as we are now. But the agony of this season is, 4th or even 3rd was there for the taking, nobody after Chelsea and Man City is that good. Our awful first half means a good run in the second half that could have carried us to the Top 4 will now leave us 6th or something.

The truth behind this is that on April 9th we beat Spurs and reached 12th in the league and 37 points. 2 away draws followed at Leeds (Rooney’s last ever goal for us) and Chelsea (2nd in the league) to take us to 39 points and 13th place. We were safe. Leicester and Wolves 11 points back with 4 games to go, Leeds 7 back and City 5 behind. We lost the plot, and the last 4 games and slumped from 13th to 17th - but we were never in any danger of being relegated.

So please do not ever give the impression we just survived. It was like qualifying for an athletics final and slowing down at the tape, but we were still among the qualifiers.

We have never been in the scrape come the last few games since the days of Agent Johnson.

Expectations are very different now. No trophies and below 7th equals failure in my eyes. But the die is not cast yet...though its looking loaded.

"RelegationÂ’ shouts are embarrassing and people need to pack that in. We wonÂ’t go down. Given our performances this season we will probably finish around where we are now with around 50 points. There are 6-8 teams worse than us at the moment so itÂ’s not even an issue."

Where are we going to get another 19 points from never mind 29?!! The way this is going, relegation is a very real possibility. This has happened before. Norwich and Wimbledon (if memory serves me correctly), dropped like the proverbial stone, and I mean dropped. It was startling! With the current Â’setupÂ’, why are we immune? I can see the 6-8 worse teams than us lining up to (a) Watch us self destruct and/or (b) Help us to self destruct. Teams donÂ’t even have to put a shift in, we just beat ourselves. No leadership. No heart. No fight. No belief. No passion. Players so tapped up, they are just counting the days down before they Â’make their escapeÂ’ to London and/or Manchester. I can certainly see this team dropping like a stone unless there is a change...yes Martinez has to go. Get Tony Pulis in to (a) kick the players up the arse. (b) Get the defenders to defend. ThatÂ’s all. (b) Select the right the right players to play in the right positions. Play the British way, not try to play like a poor manÂ’s version of Barcelona with unsuited players.
I know the scholars of the School of ScienceÂ’ will be up in arms at such an appointment. I would normally be one of those people. Unfortunately, we have no choice. It is that critical.

Strewth - what have you been taking?

We will need about 70 points for that - minimum. So that is 49 points out of 63. So that is lose at Chelsea and draw 5 others - and win the other 15.

And that really would be some miracle!

Last season we had a balanced team, everyone knew their jobs and by and large did them. We scored lots of goals and finished fifth.

This season has seen a lack of balance with many players and manager severely underperforming.

Everyone knew how the 1985 side played. They had balance, did their jobs consistently and no-one could live with them.

You can yack on about systems - it’s all about a lack of competence for me. From the top down. Nothing will change until these people do their jobs properly.

I watched the Liverpool - Arsenal game yesterday and it was a travesty that the Reds nearly lost but even with ten men they showed a fighting spirit we sorely lack. Right now, as an Evertonian for over 60 years, I have never been so depressed and disappointed at our situation.

Another problem, Until Robbie takes his halo off is head, we are fecked! This guyÂ’s on-field decision making where managers earn their reputation is delusional.

IÂ’m starting to believe this "massive football club" has come to early in RobbieÂ’s managerial career! Hope IÂ’m wrong because early doors things looked very promising.

Last seasons success was Moyes’ side with Barry and Lukaku, Deulofeu on loan. Credit has to be given to Martinez for progressing Barkley, Stones and Naismith, but this season we have gone backwards. All over the pitch we are out of form, the biggest worry for me being Tim Howard who has been incredibly poor.

I personally do not believe Martinez has the balls to turn this around and quite frankly I hate the football we are playing. This is a rant that I needed to get off my chest but I don’t believe for a second that he will be dismissed because of the massive contract he has just signed,.I just pray he can change because if he doesn’t I truly fear for our future.

The Catalan labelled the way Everton conceded as “soft” but he remains confident his side can mount a challenge for the top four by finding form in the second-half of the campaign.“It is a worry in terms of the results but not in terms of the performances,” said Martinez. “We didn’t defend the box well which is the top and bottom of it.“A 3-0 difference is very difficult to explain.

Why should we have to wait until the second-half of the season? Why should our season only start in February? DonÂ’t the next half-a-dozen games count? I cannot understand how a manager can come out with such tripe so often - nearly as bad as his counterpart across the park who believes they are top 4 material. both sound delusional if in slightly different ways.

19 Points is only 6 wins and a draw. Burnley, Stoke, Leicester, West Brom, Newcastle, Sunderland all to play at home yet. QPR, Swansea, West Ham, Villa Away, you telling me you want to get Tony Pullis in to get us 19 points against them lot?

Were not going down. It shouldn’t even be discussed.

Knowing us we will probably go on a run now and do a cup double as well?

And the same goes for now Phil because we won’t be anywhere near the bottom come the end of the season. The way some go on though we are already in a relegation fight.

That team he picked against Saints probably would slip into trouble. We must be stronger with McCarthey and Stones back.
However I get a distinct impression something is wrong behind the scenes. Why have so many lost form together?

A good start is simply to play midfielders who’ll give us some width. Doing this will allow both Baines and Coleman to play better as they’ll have wide men to link up with and those same wide men will give them the confidence to bomb forward as they’ll (hopefully) cover the FBs when they go forward.

Playing players out wide, who are best in the middle, just screws us before a ball has even been kicked. Admittedly it doesnt help that Pienaar seems to be utter gash at the moment and Mirallas is injured. But we still have the likes of McGeady and Oviedo who’ll do a decent job out wide.

I pray to god that he’ll start Barkley next to whoever plays CDM against Stoke and at least one of McGeady or Oviedo at AM to give us some width and allow at least one of the FBs to play well.

He needs to finally realise that none of Barkley, Naismith, Osman or Eto should ever start a game out wide. If it means leaving two or more on the bench, then so be it. Eto should really be coming on in the second half of games anyway, at 34 he shouldn’t be starting games in the league.

One good thing is that something has to give sooner rather than later so things will change quickly.

Mr Martinez was still a player in 2007. He took over as manager of Swansea for the 2007-08 season and was with them gaining promotion to the Premier League in the 2008-09 season. After that, he took over at Wigan and then Everton, so really his managerial career is only 7 seasons.

He may end up by being the exeption to the normal progress of Premier League managers that are usually assistant managers in the lower leagues going through the normal process of relegation and promotion and gradually moving successfully higher, gaining experience along the way.

He really has only one failure and that was with Wigan being relegated but I do not think he counted that as a failure as they won the cup.

Where do you see us in two year’s time with him?

What are your ambitions for our club?

Bear in mind that when Walker was sacked we had escaped relegation on the final day the previous season, then were marooned at the bottom.

We’re not getting relegated. If you want a new manager, surely we can do better than Moyes - lite?

But feck me, the shouts for Pulis, Moyes or Joe Royle are beyond madness. No doubt we would hear Warnock’s name being bandied about if he was currently out of work.

We are not in the relegation zone, and we are currently mid-table, with 21 games left to play.

Martinez needs to pull his finger out, and get this team playing, but can everyone calm the fuck down please? Liverpool fans are backing their man, even though they are only one point ahead of us after spending 𧴭m!

What’s happened to make Evertonians boo after a win, and want the manager gone because we are mid-table? Is it because we all expected great things after last season?

Look, Our great club deserves better than where we are at present! Fecking hell, your not talking about just any club! WeÂ’re talking about EVERTON!!

Every year, I keep thinking, just maybe this year! But when I look from the outside- in, at our great club all my hopes vanish when I see a manager either out of is depth! or gone has far as he can! Also, the wrong appointment. (thereÂ’s been a few of them).... I was hoping like many of us, Robbie was the man!!

Roberto is a little unfortunate that he took over a team that had played decent in 2012-13 and surpassed themselves in 2013-14, but in the last 9 months we have become too easy to beat and look laboured when trying to win games.

It isn’t only down to the manager, the players have a great many questions to answer,but between them, I still hope we can turn it around.

They don’t have to soar into the top 4 to win the supporters over, they just have to put in a decent shift and look as if they care about what is happening on the pitch. I get bored with reading about how the players feel disappointed about being unable to put a run together - just go all out to win the next game and forget about what happened in the last match and if they do that in every game then the fans will once again support the team in the way that they have done in the past.

As for the QPR match it was a good result but not a good performance and was barely better than has been seen in the last couple of months.

Both RM and Brenda have become concerned about keeping their jobs hence their ridiculous pronouncements in the press. Just as soon as this or that player is fit everything will be ok. It’s not going to happen. Last season they both touched lucky. All the the big money clubs, Manure, Chelsea and City, for one reason or another were having poor seasons by their standards. This gave clubs like Everton and Liverpool a chance to make some progress in the league, especially since neither side had any midweek European football to worry about.

Well last season is now the good old days and both RM and Brenda are under pressure and look like keen amateurs in a league of professionals.

Everton had an ageing squad last season and that needed addressing last summer. Unfortunately what with his world cup punditry commitments and being gods gift to footie management RM never quite got round to doing anything about it. Now he’s in the shit and doesn’t know how to get out of it beyond spouting endless bromides about jam tomorrow. Maybe he should have stuck to being a physio.

A ManagerÂ’s role is to get the best productivity out of the available talent at their disposal. Focus on the individualÂ’s strengths and try to limit any possible negative effects of their weaknesses on the team. This is true in all professions but Bobby Brown Shoes seems to be ignoring the basics.

Maybe we should club together and get him on a course, call it a crimbo present

Agree with what you say. I would add that he compounded the age problem with Eto and Barry. Their signings are looking like a disaster for EFC. If they are both on 𧴜 grand pw, their contracts will cost 㿅M, crippling us for the next 3 years.
I feel the manager is and will continue to pick them to justify their contracts to the chairman.

The fact that I along with many others have stopped believing the bullshit will make no real difference. The real problem I suspect is that the players are also tired of his spin. I’m not one to favour the old whiskey nose / Keano methods of constantly kicking a player in the bollox but at the moment many of our players need it. How stupid is it to keep telling players they are brilliant world beaters when the evidence is clearly there that they are performing shite. Collectively but mamager coaching staff and the selected eleven are not performing to a level acceptable to Evertons standard. If there is no massive improvement soon and consistently for the remainder of this season then they can collectively fuck off somewhere else. WE DESERVE BETTER.

The truth is that he inherited a pretty decent squad and with Lukaku, Barry and Delboy improved on it. Full credit.

This season the team is properly his and from the non pre season he has turned it into a dog’s dinner. Forget Moyes finishing 17th,not relevant. Forget Moyes having good second half-seasons. Not relevant as he also had some stinkers as well !

What we will agree on, I’m sure, is if we hammer Stoke on Boxing Day, the manager’s crown will be back in place and these columns will be empty !

Let’s just hope that’s the case.

Normally a new manager comes in and has problems to sort out and can rightfully - if the results improve - claim thanks for it and that in turn buys him time but he won’t be afforded that time - whether he deserves it is a matter of opinion, I don’t love the guy neither do I hate the guy but nothing has changed and fans have had enough of treading water and many now feel that we are in decline which obviously the manager has to take responsibility for but it is and always has been the players who take to the field, most of whom should have been ditched in 2009 following the FA Cup final defeat, they weren’t good enough then, so I don’t see how they could be good enough now.

Phil - You obviously think or believe that a different man in charge will see us return to where Moyes had us or better, perhaps you are correct, but I still think that whoever is Everton boss will have their work cut out motivating a bunch of players who think the street behind the goal at Goodison Park is called easy street.

I do hope that Martinez can turn it around so we can say that it was all his tactics that brought us the success we had last season but as this season is going backwards he has to do something dramatic to turn it around.

Personally I believe that Mr Martinez is to stubborn to admit the philosophy he wishes to install to the club is not working and he will continue playing it .

Other formations of players may improve his style of play but even he after trying Barkley out of position with Eto’o and Lukaku he has to admit he is wrong and start using the players he has in their correct positions even though they may not be as good as the player they replace.

We will never get consistancy in the team if it is not balanced. I do not care if we win and he just says we played well instead of it being phenomanal.

It seems like heÂ’s consistently making the wrong call at present. Look, we all have a difference of opinions on players, due to subjective views, also with systems of play and team formations. I just feel RobbieÂ’s overall football decisions are fecking weird!!... They say! " donÂ’t change things if itÂ’s not broken" "WELL" it is broken! Fecking change things NOW!

This guy has played the game at a decent level and also been brought up in a great football culture/ environment. I just canÂ’t fathom out why he makes such strange decisions on all things Everton.

I really thought this season would be a season of change. I was led to believe the talented youth players we have within our club would be given a real opportunity to shine and develop into our next generation of stars. Nothing could be further from the truth! At this stage these talented, frustrated players must be absolutely gutted the way things have gone up to now.

The BK saga, I try and keep away from. I have enough problems trying to control my frustration with our managers anticÂ’s.

We have pace, strength and guile in the squad. If Martinez can’t find a way to put that on the pitch then he’s not the manager we need. It’s about time this club reestablished itself. We’ve been treading water for far too long. And last season, as good as it was until we threw it away, is not good enough.

To me you believe that Martinez should be fired now and that is a feeling from a number of supporters but I doubt very much if that will happen. B.K.will not admit that Martinez is not the manager for Everton until he gets the club in a precarious position and I don’t think that will happen. We just have to hope that he understands what he is doing wrong and sorts it out.

You state: "This revisionism that Moyes was some sort of footballing ogre is really starting to get on my tits." which is a fair point. Moyes served Everton well and earned his place in our historical records for his longevity.

You then go on to, in my opinion, commit an act of revisionism in the next sentence: "For the majority of his reign we were a good side and played decent football."

I can’t agree there. I agree the first few years he had to roll-over the squad he inherited, and there were spells in the last 3-4 years of his tenure that we did play some good stuff, but it was never sustained, and invariably reverted to the safety first "knife to a gunfight" crap.

What amazes me is Moyes got 11 years, didn’t come close to winning anything (unless you count an FA Cup final appearance when the team turned up and little else as close), and on the whole retained the support of a pliant fanbase during that time.

RM deserves the brickbats coming his way right now, in as much as he deserved the plaudits he got last season. But for some of our fanbase to be calling for change, less than 2 years in when the predecessor got 11 years to refine his version of boreball is a fucking joke. To see Pulis’ name mentioned just makes me cringe. Why not Allardyce? West Ham are doing well and he’s out of contract in the summer?

Don’t get me wrong – I’m not calling for his head or anything because I don’t believe there’s anybody else who could do any better out there who’s available at the moment and I do like him and his way forward for us. But he has to be tactically more astute and be able to get more out of the players playing where they need to be.

I would love to see an absolute cauldron of a Goodison against Stoke and us batter them with effort and great ball movement and not let them out of their own half for first half hour at least!

Throughout the interview he stared at the floor and kept mumbling "Hopefully." A portrait of a man without confidence. A man who is our chief dressing room and on-the pitch motivator.

This was followed by the Martinez post-match interview where he pondered, "Teams will change things around to suit the way we play and that has to be a concern."

All in all, a pretty sad state of affairs.

ItÂ’s because Moyes inherited a team that sooner or later would have been relegated when its luck ran out and even BK had to act eventually. Year on year, with the odd wobble, Moyes improved on this until he hit his limits in the last 3 years or so. If there were such a thing as a TW mailbag archive you would see pretty much wall to wall IMWT from everyone including our esteemed editor until fairly recent times. It *was* time for Moyes to go.

RM inherited a Top 6 side, no question of that at all and my belief is that he is dismantling every pragmatic positive aspect of our team which got us in that position so yes I think he should go. Football clichés like "earn the right to play", "keep the spine of the team strong", "you can’t be successful" without a strong defence are actually 100% true, certainly in England, and they are consistentlying applied without fail through the top teams.

They were the bedrock of Moyes and IMHO he struggled to get much beyond these but RM seems to completely disregard these practicalities for his "philosophy" and that is what is really worrying me the most. I think he is a busted flush.

If a opposing manager can set up his team to play effectively against us before the start of the match then God help us for the rest of the season!

How about this for a novel idea. Study the opposition and set US up to exploit THEIR frailties, give THEM something to think about, it’s called tactical nouse, not playing by numbers...

On another thread, someone is no longer supporting the Blues, he is packing in football altogether.

These boards are full of drama queens, all trying to outdo each other with their condemnation of the manager and players. Cries of "Martinez out" from some, and even that chavvy baseball cap wearing divvy, Pulis, has been the suggestion of quite a few on here.

Fuck me, we have finally morphed into a poor Man Utd.

I am just waiting for the next post of how hurt someone is feeling, and they are refusing to eat Christmas dinner, or going on a dirty protest outside the Gwladys St.

Anyone want a noose?