We are DEEP in the doo-dah... we have taken a paltry 4 points from the last 24 available, with a home draw with Hull and a win against QPR. We are currently bottom of the PL form table. It's not as though we've had a difficult fixture list in those 8 games...

After beating West Ham at home in the league and getting a great result away to Wolfsburg in the Europa League, we went to Spurs, started well, then... meekly surrendered.

Next, we played Hull at home. They arrived having lost their 4 previous games and without a win in 7. They didn't have to bust a gut to get a draw.

We then went away to Man City, did OK, but lost on a dubious penalty. Thankfully, our next game was at home to QPR who have failed to pick up a single point on the road. We won 3-1, but it was a very scruffy performance.

Then we travelled to Southampton on their worst run of the season, having lost ALL their previous FIVE games and without a win in SEVEN. We get tanked 3-0 and Martinez doesn't even make a substitution.

Next: Home to Stoke – tricky opponents, but still coming to us with only one win in 6... another soft penalty, 1-0 defeat and once they went ahead; we never looked like getting anything from the game.Next, away we go to Newcastle, another team on a bad run with speculation about their manager moving on. They had been tanked and lost all their four previous games before Everton turn up. We get off to a flier – a peach of a move and goal in the first five minutes, then just gift them goals to fall to a 3-2 defeat.

Okay, things were not looking great, but surely we thought we could get something at Hull away... in the bottom 3, 1 win in 13, only 1 home win all season, a paltry SINGLE GOAL in their last five home games... they even lost their previous home game to bottom club Leicester... We get mugged 2-0, and it could have been more.

Four consecutive defeats. Five consecutive away defeats... and against teams struggling themselves... and we haven't got close to them. And the teams below us are showing more fight, grit and resilience than we are....

What are the odds of us improving? On Tuesday, we play The Hammers in the FA Cup. On Saturday, we're at home to the resurgent Manchester City. It could get very messy...

Then we have two genuine relegation games! Home to WBA, who will be better for the appointment of Pullis, and away to Palace. Ditto that with the arrival of Pardew.

This is not just a current malaise. Take a look at Everton's stats on the season so far, across all the teams in the PL:

Second worst defence after QPR – 33 goals conceded

Most errors leading to goals: 11

Fewest crosses from open play: 225

Conceded fewest fouls: 178

Won most amount of fouls: 246.

Caught offside the most: 49

Add to that this wee statistic: At the same stage in the season Martinez won the cup with Wigan, but got them relegated, Wigan had conceded 35 goals in 20 games. Everton is on 33 goals in 20 games.

We had dark days under Howard Kendall Mk 2 and 3, as we did under the hapless Mike Walker, Walter Smith and even Moyes. But I've NEVER seen it this bad, even with pretty much the same talented squad that did so well last year.

We may not have had the most talented players, but you always knew you had been in a game against Everton. That's gone. The defence is a joke. The midfield non-existent. The forwards getting nothing to feed on.

The happy marriage of solid defence and more offensive play, Martinez's switch of tactics and effective substitutions from last season, are now just a distant memory.

Even teams struggling and at the bottom end of the league don't have to work hard to beat us these days. Keep your shape in defence and midfield, keep two wide men high up the pitch to prevent Baines and Coleman gambolling forward, press the man in possession and you will win easy turnover of the ball to attack the wide open spaces.

Disturbing reports of conflict are emerging from what used to be the tightest knit bunch of professionals in the league. And Martinez's sound bites grow increasingly bizarre.

There is a smell of fear about Everton at the moment, and given Martinez's comments, team selections and tactics, I see no end to this rapid decline.

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Kunal Desai
1 Posted 03/01/2015 at 18:54:47
I’m clinging on to the hope that something, maybe even something small might kick start a run.

A few years back we lost 6 or 7 in a row and when everyone had written us off, we got a penalty against Chelsea and drew 1-1. We need Barry to make a crunching tackle on Aguero or something to get the side going (Neville on Ronaldo).

We just need a spark from somewhere. Maybe that might come against Man City or maybe Sergio, if fit, will have a field day against our back four. Either way, I’m sure something small is all it will take for us to get out of this mire.

Clive Rogers
2 Posted 03/01/2015 at 18:49:53
Good post Jay, agree with every word. You can’t argue with facts and statistics like those.

Perhaps what is even worse is that almost all of our ageing, over the hill squad will be there next season, even the ones who never play because their bodies have had enough. Martinez has been doling new and extended contracts like they are going out of fashion. Only Distin, Alcaraz and Oviedo’s contracts are up in the summer.

Martinez brought two players into an ageing squad in the summer on unbelievable contracts who are in their mid thirties. Unbelievable.

Barry was so slow against Hull that I kept checking that I hadn’t pressed the slow motion button by mistake.

We will most likely be relegated this season, but if we aren’t we will next season with an even older squad.

Andy Crooks
3 Posted 03/01/2015 at 19:14:26
Nicely summed up, Jay. We are present, by some distance, the worst team with the worst coach in the Premier league.
Paul Hewitt
4 Posted 03/01/2015 at 19:21:19
Jay, your post says everything. And people will still argue for Martinez.
David Edwards
5 Posted 03/01/2015 at 19:11:53
A nice piece of work, Jay. Nothing new from the many posts on other threads, but a very clear summary of where we find ourselves. A post which those at the club need to read and ponder about.

I pessimistically said after the Southampton game we might be lucky to get 5 points before the RS derby match – with a real view fear that we might only get 3 points and that was from the Baggies. My predictive skills give me no pleasure, and I’d love to see us surprise ourselves and kick-start the rest of the season against City, but.........!

Trust the Baggies to hit Gateshead for 7 just now. We need to start digging ourselves out of this hole soon, Jay!

Brian Hennessy
6 Posted 03/01/2015 at 19:29:10
Good post Jay, it makes for depressing reading.

Forgive my ignorance but can anyone fill me in on what exactly happened with RM and Distin. I keep hearing about a falling out but what are the facts we know about what went on.

Thanks in advance

Steve Carse
7 Posted 03/01/2015 at 19:32:27
The case for disposing of a PL manager has rarely been stronger than it is for RM at the moment. Awful, awful performances all season and no sign of improvement in the last month.
Sid Logan
9 Posted 03/01/2015 at 20:15:50
Jay - An Insightful post. At the moment we’re all powerless and pissing in the wind. My guess is Martinez has 2 more losses before BK will act and that includes the cup game.

It maybe time for Lyndon and Michael to start preparing a survey on his replacement. Bill Kenwright as always will look to us for advice. I’m ready with my suggestions.

Len Gowing
10 Posted 03/01/2015 at 20:30:14
I’ll get slated for this but last season we had a player who played 38 games and this season was injured some time after the west ham game. Last season we did generally ok and this season the wheels have completely come off in the last 5 weeks coinciding with his layoff. I’m not saying he is the reason for the change, but Leon Osman is always touted as a clever footballer. I know there is a lot of ill feeling towards him here but is there not the possibility that this is where we are lacking- someone who can adapt to the managers system.

Sat next to a pool in Mexico drinking margaritas so my judgement may be clouded but I’ll be there next Saturday regardless.

Nick Entwistle
11 Posted 03/01/2015 at 20:42:48
WeÂ’re not deep in the doodah, weÂ’re 13th, and Kenwright isnÂ’t sacking anyone for being in 13th.

But I do think a poor showing against WH with say the probable loss against City and the WBA and Palace games will be a dance for your supper time, Roberto.

After all, whatÂ’s BKÂ’s most famous quote - Never again!

Colin Glassar
12 Posted 03/01/2015 at 20:56:20
HeÂ’s not in trouble yet. HeÂ’s under pressure from all sides to turn this slump around but the word Â’sackÂ’ hasnÂ’t been mentioned by anyone at Goodison.
Steve Barr
13 Posted 03/01/2015 at 20:47:33
Add to that the complete lack of any leader/leadership on the pitch, agree, we are truly in Doo-Dah.

I canÂ’t ever remember feeling this concerned about how and when we are going to turn this around.

All those at the club; players, management and the board should be ashamed they have allowed this great club to sink so easily.

I recall thinking the 2nd time we avoided relegation (v Coventry) that surely those who have influence at the club would never let us get in this position again.

Charlatans of the first order!

IÂ’m afraid the players are going to have to grow a pair, have a come to Jesus meeting with Roberto and dig themselves out of this. CanÂ’t see any other resolution.

Disgraceful.

Phil Rodgers
14 Posted 03/01/2015 at 20:57:13
This might seem a bit douchebaggian but I really believe that not sacking Martinez is small club mentality.

In our last 9 games we have won 1 drawn 1 and lost 7! On the grand old team website 61% are in favour of keeping him! I find that incredible. Is it apathy or blind trust?

We have played football as bad as anything I have ever seen including anything under Walter Smith or Mike Walker.

He needs to be sacked yesterday.

Stephen Brown
15 Posted 03/01/2015 at 20:57:23
The next 3 games will determine RM future. I for one hope for 3 wins then hopefully I can go back to speaking to my family, sleeping, eating properly and not check ToffeeWeb every minute!

I never thought we would be in this situation and for the record the Fight Fight Fight chant at the start of WHU game will send a great message to the players. They need to fully understand what it means to us and (if they are true) put aside any petty arguments.

Jay Wood
16 Posted 03/01/2015 at 20:54:12
@ Nick 11. Look at the league table a bit more closely, Nick.

I'm an optimist. I look up, rather than down. But looking up we are now 5 points adrift of Stoke above us. Villa are a point better off. We are equal on points with Sunderland, just 2 points clear of QPR and Hull, 3 points above WBA and 4 points above Palace and Burnley in the bottom 3. We only have a healthy gap with Leicester, rooted at the bottom 7 points behind us.

What have all these teams in common? They have all been touted as possible relegation candidates... and some of them are above us and the majority are in touching distance.

Each season, me and a couple of mates have a wee competition between us. We predict the finishing positions of the 20 PL clubs. In making my predictions for the lower end I concentrate on teams with the worst defences as they are invariably the ones to get relegated.

Right now, only QPR has conceded more goals than Everton and we are on par with Wigan for goals conceded when they get relegated!

We have a fragile and porous defence, the ball is ponderously and ineffectively recycled, Baines and Coleman have been neutered, there is no pace in the team or the methods applied and we don't last the pace of games well. It is the remit of the manager to shore this up and to start getting points on the board.

We need to wake up before we get even deeper in the doh-dah!

Steve Davies
17 Posted 03/01/2015 at 20:48:57
Great article Jay. I like you, am used to dealing with the facts. They speak for themselves and if we persist with Martinez he will take us down. This manager is a Â’Know it allÂ’ who wants to do it his way and is just a spin doctor as far as I am concerned. I cannot even look at the Echo for his latest offering.

He has no grasp of the basics of defending ie. you clear your lines and mark players Â’touch tightÂ’. His team under his instructions continue to waste corners, and instead of putting the ball in the centre from a free kick it often ends up back with the goalkeeper. It is almost as we are always trying to score the Â’perfect goalÂ’ every time.

From the playersÂ’ body language the team clearly are sick of this style of play and him too.

Hopefully Joe Royle will be appointed after the West Ham match to halt this slide and we can get rid of this joker....he can then go back to Wigan where he belongs.

Mike Hughes
19 Posted 03/01/2015 at 21:06:01
If the word Â’sackÂ’ does get mentioned I can just imagine the righteous indignation in the media (not that it matters).

"Sacked him? After what he did last season?"
"Record points haul and thatÂ’s the thanks!"

Of course, last season counts for bugger all.

To quote the late great Prefab Sprout, Â’youÂ’re only as good as the last great thing youÂ’ve doneÂ’.
(IÂ’m sure Einstein said that as well but I heard it on the Steve McQueen album first).

Darren Hind
20 Posted 03/01/2015 at 21:18:17
The word sack hasnt been mentioned by anybody at Goodison"

Not publically no, but since when did KenwrightÂ’s conversations with his Spurs-supporting "advisers" ever go public ?

Andrew Hawes
22 Posted 03/01/2015 at 21:39:04
Why isnÂ’t the word "sack" not being used? ThatÂ’s what Martinez needs to hear!

He is still rambling on about "last season" and our "performances" as if heÂ’s untouchable. Rodgers was under severe pressure a few weeks ago when they were level pegging but as they disappear over the horizon along with the rest of the top half of the table

There is still no mention of sackings or searching questions of any kind towards Martinez.

Colin Glassar
23 Posted 03/01/2015 at 21:51:42
Bit of a contradiction there, Andrew. But as toy pointed out, Rodgers was given time to sort things out as will Martinez.
John Keating
24 Posted 03/01/2015 at 21:56:49
Colin,

How long would you give Martinez?

When, if this run continues, would you call quits on Martinez?

Colin Glassar
25 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:17:34
At least another 4-6 weeks John. If things are still going badly in mid February then yes we should act. But right now I wouldnÂ’t blink.
Joe Clitherow
26 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:12:00
Apart from anything else Colin, a few weeks ago Rodgers HAD more time, and it is now past half the season.

But more pertinently you talk like he had a slump then and we are just having one now, but in actual fact both clubs have been pretty much level pegging bad (us worth than them actually) and Rodgers does seem to have turned a corner whereas we have continued to fall. Apart from anything else they have actually shown a bit of fight in some games whereas weÂ’re getting softer every week.

John Keating
27 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:20:19
Colin,

I agree with Joe. The RS seem to have turned it around, well at least be moving in the right direction. Had they shown no improvement and been neck and neck with us at this stage, I doubt Rogers would have seen the last game.

We are now past the half-way point and still going backward. Mid February is leaving things awful late if this debacle continues from now until then. If confidence is low now, imagine what it will be like in another 6 weeks!

Sid Logan
28 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:19:14
Colin, I know you have a degree of credibility on this site but Rogers's failures have no comparison with the situation that Martinez has placed us in.

Everton FC are facing a serious crisis right now and many of think that thereÂ’s not too much time for action to be taken.

If you seriously think Martinez is capable of sorting this out, you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

Doug Harris
29 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:26:22
Biggest problem now to me is every team below us has gained points. All 7 of them, whilst we are dropping like a lead balloon.

The next 2 months will show even more so how bad the team, management and coaching staff have become. Unless we turn it around double quick, which I ask myself: Is that at all possible?

Colin Glassar
30 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:42:05
Joe, John, Sid, I honestly think things will improve over the next few weeks. I know my optimism appears insane but I think we have a very good manager who has lost his way in recent weeks and a squad of talented players whose confidence is shot.

The fans, manager and players have to stick together and get us through this. In a few weeks time, IÂ’m sure, we will look back on this black time as an unfortunate bump in our season.

Robin Cannon
31 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:47:42
IÂ’m with Colin here. If weÂ’re going to genuinely buy into a long-term project, then we shouldnÂ’t jump ship as soon as we hit a first crisis.

And, in response to the original article. LetÂ’s stop the rewriting of history; if youÂ’ve "never seen it this bad" and are comparing to Kendall Mk 3, Walker, the latter days of Smith, then I donÂ’t know what Everton youÂ’ve been watching for the last 20 years.

Jamie Crowley
32 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:45:43
The word "sack" is mentioned often.

The word "douchebaggian" by Phil Rodgers is just a gem. Love it.

IÂ’m one that prays Martinez gets it right. I like the man and I think he conducts himself in a manner IÂ’m proud of. Yes, the sun-shining-out-his-backside comments aside, I think heÂ’s nothing but class the way he carries himself. He attempts to his credit to play the game in the right way in my opinion.

Do I think he can reverse the tide?

I honestly donÂ’t know any longer.

Unsettled side. Odd substitutions. Too much lack of pace and direct play...

But IÂ’m rooting for him because I still believe somewhere in that man is a good manager.

Steve Orchard
33 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:37:46
I am very fearful of the next couple of months, I do not see how we are going to win a football match at the moment and that it is mainly because of the terrible defending of set pieces, crosses and trying to stop the crosses in the first place. It is panic stations whenever a ball enters our box.

But also and IÂ’m just supposing the worst what happens if we get dumped out of the FA Cup on Tuesday and lose to Man City and the two new-manager teams? Will Martinez be sacked before we face the scumbags? Who would we have to rally the troops? Royle, Ferguson or Unsworth maybe... ?

Sid Logan
34 Posted 03/01/2015 at 22:48:42
Colin, I understand your wish to see it come right and I know you are a committed blue but I think your optimism is misfounded. I honest believe that Martinez does not have the ability to get us out of this mess. There is so much evidence to this effect.

Only time will tell. I hope we will be able to discuss this again when I know we are not going to be relegated. My faith in Martinez is so limited that if we lose the next two games he must go. Anything other than this but be a gamble with our football club that none of us would be prepared to accept!

Daniel A Johnson
35 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:07:23
The Martinez situation is just a train wreck out of control.

HeÂ’s apparently a nice man yet why is he falling out with players (if true).

IÂ’d rather have a nasty, vindictive shite of a winner in charge. Not a nice man who sees the bright side of inept disgraceful displays.

Daniel A Johnson
36 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:09:47
When we lost under Moyes, you could say with reasonable confidence the players would be in early every morning having the shit drilled out of them again and again. I have no confidence under Martinez that problems on the pitch are being or will be sorted on the training pitch.
Colin Glassar
37 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:06:46
Robin, I was going to post the same. For many it might be hard to believe but IÂ’ve seen far, far worse Everton teams than this. IÂ’d add the latter Catterick years when we started to fall apart, literally, before Bingham achieved a level of mediocre stability.

Sid, I honestly hope in a few weeks time we can all share a huge sigh of relief together despite being on opposite sides of the fence regarding the manager.

With or without Martinez Everton marches on and long after he and all the players have gone the club will still be stuck with us.

Declan Brown
38 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:01:59
Well since weÂ’re in the Doo-Dah got some even better news lads, Everton are ready to sell Barkley according to the well known purveyor of truth!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2895605/Everton-ready-sell-Ross-Barkley-45m-fund-revamp-Roberto-Martinez-s-squad.html

Here we go folks, here we go, itÂ’s transfer window open time and another 4 weeks of quality rumours and rubbish to keep our minds off the dross on the pitch.

As for who iÂ’d have managing us, Mark Hughes for me right now. HeÂ’d strenghten the back 4, get us organised all over the pitch, have a competitive game plan regardless of the opposition, make us good at defending and attacking set pieces., get us fit for 90 mins, has a good knowledge of getting good young players on the cheap. Compare all of that to Roberto, in fact his record against City, Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool is pretty good, he shows them no respect and if they win they have to earn it.

No more Barcelona style football for me. I drive a lovely silver Peugeot 407 Coupe, if I entered it in a formula 1 race, it would look superb and be a real eye catcher, but itÂ’d finish last in every race but would look good racing around but the bottom line is that itÂ’s performance isnÂ’t competitive in regards to the competition. It best attributes just doesnÂ’t fit that type of competition in the same way a European possession style game wonÂ’t fit in the Premier League. All the best teams play direct football when itÂ’s needed. RobertoÂ’s stubbornness will complete his own downfall, hopefully before itÂ’s too late.

Kenwright will pull the trigger once the financial outlook of relegation starts to appear on the horizon, despite his failings heÂ’s a blue and will not want to be known and remembered as the chairman who oversaw Everton being relegated for the first time in over 60 years. Bill will give Roberto a chance but once that proud record is in real danger Roberto will be on his way.

For me the players look too damaged to turn it round for Roberto. McLaren maybe, Mark Hughes definitely for me, we wonÂ’t get the world beaters managing us but we can get one who shows them no respect.

Intriguing times lie ahead. But 㿙m for Barkley, thereÂ’s another one to debate...

Daniel A Johnson
39 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:17:18
The Mark Hughes who couldnÂ’t get a win at QPR in 15+ matches and was sacked and replaced by Harry Redknapp who described what Hughes had left as an absolute debacle of the highest order?
Dick Fearon
40 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:01:33
Big Sam would have already prepared his game plan and probably his post match victory speech. As with other managers he knows exactly what RobertoÂ’s tactics will be and how stupidly simple they are to deal with. We can expect to be on the end of an arial bombardment launched from deep In the Hammers defence. In Carroll they have the ideal man to exploit our glaring defensive weaknesses.

Most of our defenders will be in our already over crowded attacking zones while Jags without back up will faced by a rampaging Andy C. Behind Jags is Robles a well known aerial flapper who does not inspire confidence. That sums up the downside of Tuesday's FA Cup clash, but wait.

Roberto could pull victory from the jaws of defeat by getting our backs to concentrate on defence first and foremost. Our M/Fs attacking role must be secondary to their defensive duty. Two hard working strikers doing their best to create havoc should be enough to keep the Hammers defenders occupied.

The above would require a reversal of RobertoÂ’s hell or high water style and sadly I do not think he is man enough to do it.

Daniel A Johnson
41 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:21:01
There are lots of good managers out there but in the terms of World football and foreign coaches I bet Kenwright doesnÂ’t even know what country half of the coaches were born in never mind the clubs they manage.

IF Martinez gets the sack our next manager will not come from a foreign country, not in a million years.

Daniel A Johnson
42 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:26:15
The 2nd leakiest defence in the league now with the weakest goalkeeper in the premiership stopping the goals.

I bet Sakho and Carroll cant wait to be unleashed on our back line.

Colin Glassar
43 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:31:29
If there was a Mancunian equivalent of TW 25 years ago, the same comments wouldÂ’ve been made about a certain Mr Fergie. And, If TW existed in the early 80s, a certain Howard Kendall wouldÂ’ve been getting the same stick as Martinez is getting now.

Both clubs stuck with their managers and the rest is history.

Tom Loughrey
44 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:37:34
Colin (43), with all due respect, times were very different then. The financial environment for one was a much more level playing field which meant that the managers ability to Â’manageÂ’ came much more to the fore.

Today, without serious investment, Everton shall continue to be one of the Â’also-ransÂ’ in the top flight (I canÂ’t see us being relegated even if we do flirt with it a tad) albeit with an illustrious history. However, what I wouldnt give to be able to talk about some recent history instead of having to harp back to the glory days of 1995, the 80Â’s and beyond.

Joe Clitherow
45 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:35:08
I disagree strongly Colin, you canÂ’t compare either Ferguson or Kendall with Martinez. Ferguson had a track record of winning things and Kendall had some credit for his Everton playing career. Both managers had bad results but, for Kendall at least who I watched closely, I donÂ’t believe either served the shambolic deteriorating boring dross I have watched from the current fraud. Neither had been relegated with an almost identical record less than two seasons ago either.

Again surely you donÂ’t think Martinez is a Ferguson or a Kendall in waiting do you? IÂ’ve seen enough of him in 18 months plus I watched him perform shockingly in his last few games at Wigan. Nor did I ever hear Ferguson or Kendall say defence was a waste of time. Both built very strongly from the back with a top goalkeeper their early signings.

Kevin Tully
46 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:38:07
Colin - I would love to support you mate, I really would. You know my views on Martinez, and no- one is more disappointed than me the way things are working out. There is no way I want to see a return to the agricultural football we have all witnessed.

Sadly though, I only see a team who have lost all faith in their manager, we are even the lowest ranked side in the League for tackling!!

If I could see any way of Martinez getting these players back on side, I would be posting on similar lines to your good self - I think itÂ’s over for him, and it pains me to write that.

Joe Foster
47 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:35:16
There probably was a Mancunian version last season. The rest is history.
Colin Glassar
48 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:44:20
Joe, you have a very selective memory. Both Ferguson and Kendall were on the verge of getting the boot for the poor, ineffectual dross their teams played in the early years of their reign. Both were probably one game, ONE, from being sacked. If they had, where would they be now? Fergie wouldÂ’ve probably gone back to Scotland and Kendall? Who knows?

IÂ’m not saying Martinez is either of them. No. HeÂ’s is own man and will sink or swim on his own merits. You call him a fraud, I call him a young manager with lots of potential whoÂ’s on a steep learning curve. WeÂ’ll see who is right in the very near future.

Joe Clitherow
49 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:43:47
PS Robin 31

For me, your assumption is flawed as I donÂ’t buy into it at all, not one jot, not one iota. It is pie in the sky delusional fantasy because in my opinion it will take upwards of 𧴜M+ to get the players in and he wonÂ’t get that even if we had it.

He inherited a very good group of players – I agree, Colin – known quantities who were regular Top 6 challengers and he seems to want to reset them into something completely different, something which they are not. In my guess there is the root of discontent there.

Like I said, I think the guy is a delusional fantasist. IÂ’ve said elsewhere I like the guy, but there is an element of his excessive wide-eyed insistence in interviews which does make me a bit uneasy, like some kind of weird cult leader. He does unsettle me a little.

Patrick Murphy
50 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:45:08
Colin - United prior to their victory at Forest in the FA Cup, had 22 points from 20 games played and had conceded 29 goals they ended the season with 48 points and conceded 47 goals. Sheffield Wed went down with 43 points.

KendallÂ’s main problem was the opposite to our current issues his team couldnÂ’t buy a goal as his side scored only 11 in their first 20 First Division games and had conceded 23 and earned 23 points.

Everton found their goalscoring form and ended up in 7th place with 62 points conceding just 42 goals. Both Fergie and Kendall managed to put the FA Cup on the sideboard to begin a reign of dominance. I would love the same to happen to Everton this season but I just canÂ’t see it, not having witnessed the abject performances of the last month, but football is, as they say a funny old game.

Jay Wood
51 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:05:15
@ Robin 31... IÂ’ve been watching Everton, man and boy, just shy of 50 years. Rewriting of history? Not at all.

Under all those managers you mentioned we had absolutely cack squads. We flirted with relegation with all of them, twice surviving on the last day of the season.

It was excrutiating watching. I cried with relief after the impossible win over the Crazy Gang and the nervy draw with Coventry.

However, even with those cack squads and genuinely threatened with the drop, those limited players fought tooth and nail. They tried. They had some shape and game plan.

Fast forward to today. We HAD a tremendous team spirit and harmony. We HAVE a very talented squad. They and the manager have performed ABYSMALLY this season. No fight, no shape, unbalanced team selections, no reaction by the manager on the sidelines or the players on the pitch when things need changing.

Could you see this current team in this form coming back from 2-0 down on the last day of the season against Wimbledon to avoid relegation..? I know my answer. ItÂ’s more than a year since we turned a losing position into a winning one, but weÂ’ve certainly lost plenty of games from winning positions.

So no, I am not rewriting history or been living under rock for 20 years. It is a given if you play for Everton that at the very least, you try. You give your all and the fans will accept that.

I have NEVER seen a meeker, less resilient, rabbits-in-headlights Everton than we are currently witnessing. Never.

Let me be clear. After last seasonÂ’s success I really thought we were on to something with Martinez. I want him to succeed at Everton. I really do. Because if he is successful, Everton is successful ... and thatÂ’s what I care about more than anything else, my club, your club, our club. Everton. Not the individual success of a transient manager or player.

The disquiet and concern many are feeling is fully justified. The complete collapse of all that was good about Everton last season - and under Moyes – is bewildering. The rapidity of the collapse doubly so.The consequences potentially DISASTEROUS for our club.

So Robin, I stand by my comments. IÂ’ll leave you and others whistling Â’DixieÂ’ (God bless him!) to continue being revisionist about the present.

Ernie Baywood
52 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:57:36
If it provides any hope I think our form is comparable to the first half of the 2011-12 season. Obsession with possession over any kind of substance. At this stage of that season we were sinking like a stone, had just set a Premier League record for failing to have a single shot for over 180 minutes, and were hoping that Moyes would throw Royston on just to give us a bit of interest... Also had an impossible set of fixtures looming.

Moyes turned it around that year by getting back to some good old fashioned work ethic. The likes of Stracq chasing and throwing his head at anything that moved. The football followed in due course... evidence that you actually have to earn the right to play.

Big test for Roberto. Can he do the same to get us out of this mess? His past tells you he may not fancy compromising his principles. To my mind, he has to show it in the next couple of games or BK has to make the move.

Colin Glassar
53 Posted 04/01/2015 at 00:02:51
"I have never seen a meeker, less resilient, rabbits-in-headlights Everton then we are currently witnessing"

I have Jay. Against Dynamo Bucharest, Benfica, RS (several times), Arsenal, Wigan etc.... and that was just under the previous manager.

Joe Clitherow
54 Posted 03/01/2015 at 23:53:05
Colin not selective at all mate. Yes I know they were both close to the sack. I know a Kevin Brock backpass to Inchy saved Kendall and I know Ferg-eh was saved by Mark Robins and (ironically) a Mark Hughes goal which won him a UEFA Cup.

But my point was that being, allegedly, close to the sack is the only thing Martinez has in common with those winners. KendallÂ’s teams were clearly organised and had something and needed a break, which he got. This guyÂ’s team is just shocking. Plus he didnÂ’t build it, he inherited a good team as we both agree. Do you know, what he has clearly done to the level of fitness is a stackable offence for me.

I will concede that, in an effectively infinite universe, the possibility exists that Martinez could recover in the same way as Kendall or Ferg-eh, or be sacked from us and go on and drive all before him with another club. If he does I will eat not only my hat but anything you care to name. Apart from "feelings" etc, no-one has given me one piece of supporting information from his track record that shows he has any ability to adapt to the rapidly deteriorating situation we are in, not one piece of evidence to show that he is "a very good young manager", as I have seen stated elsewhere, at all.

Jay Wood
55 Posted 04/01/2015 at 00:16:04
@ Colin 53. One off games Colin, spread out over many seasons. I am talking about half a complete season in the here and now ... but you know that, donÂ’t you?

Keep whistling Â’DixieÂ’ Colin...

Colin Glassar
56 Posted 04/01/2015 at 00:14:08
Joe, honestly, mate. I need to get some kip. Ok. I donÂ’t know if heÂ’s another Fergie or Kendall, none of us do. ItÂ’s called showing faith. I have it, you donÂ’t.

As for track record. Well, he took a small Welsh club that was looking at Conference football and (helped) build it into what it is today. I think he got them promoted twice in two seasons consecutively. That, for Swansea, is similar to what Fergie did with Aberdeen.

He then moved onto mighty Wigan where his remit (correct me if IÂ’m wrong, Mr Walling) was prem survival whilst buying cheaply then selling his best players for a hefty profit. Under these conditions I think he kept Wigan up for three seasons out of four? LetÂ’s forget his FA Cup win against the football billionaires as that is now officially considered a fluke and an irrelevance by many on here.

Last, but not least, he got us to 5th last season with our highest points total but once again that was done thanks to OFM as it was his team, tactics, spirit etc....

So, yes, Joe, youÂ’re probably right. This guy has no track record. He was probably chosen for his sartorial tastes.

Colin Glassar
57 Posted 04/01/2015 at 00:27:09
ThatÂ’s it for tonight lads. WeÂ’ll cross swords again tomorrow no doubt. Keep the faith as no one ever said it was easy being an Evertonian and there really arenÂ’t any messiahs out there.
Joe Clitherow
58 Posted 04/01/2015 at 00:26:36
One last thing though, for the record and without turning into Kevin Keegan, I would love it, love it, if the pro-Martinez Brigade (are we yet using the term 'Martinez apologists' on a regular basis?) turn out to be completely right and me and others 100% wrong. I would love it. If only not to go through more upheaval which is itself damaging to stability. But I obviously donÂ’t think he will.

The whole debate seems to be a Heart vs Head dilemma; wanting and hoping set against logic and fact. The thing is though, apart from the odd speculative gamble, business decisions should always be made with the head.

Unlike many here I think BK will make a sacking decision soon, if only because his more hard-nosed and less romantic backers will be putting pressure on him as soon as they start to look into the facts (because I donÂ’t think they follow us as closely as Bill does). But I think the board will be having a Mike England type successor lined up first; they wonÂ’t be taking their time like they seemed to before announcing Martinez because they wonÂ’t have it, and the sensible thing to do is give a new man at least some emergency funds for the transfer window.

Colin Gee
59 Posted 04/01/2015 at 00:53:18
When we got beat 3-0 by Southampton I thought we were poor, just one of those games I thought. We then got beat by Stoke on Boxing Day, not looking good. Went to Newcastle, we went 1-0 up after five minutes thought great back to the Everton of last season... As soon as Newcastle scored I knew we wouldn't get anything.

Hull on New Years Day, surely we'll be them they are shite, as soon as they went 1-0 up I knew it was game over, I couldn't even be arsed shouting at the players in the second half it was that bad. How bad to we have to get?

I am dreading what will happen on Tuesday in the FA Cup... Big Sam will have the 'ammers wound up, if they score first, it's game over. Then it's Man City, imagine what a rampant City could do to us...

When Martinez took over last season I welcomed him with open arms, it was like a breath of fresh air throughout the club. Now he seems to have morphed in to the lovechild of David Moyes and Walter Smith. The stubborness of Moyes in playing players every week that don't deserve to play, and the bizarre team selection of Walter Smith, Barry in a back three? While Distin sits on his arse on the bench and young Tyias Browing isn't even the squad!

If we lose the next two games then it's thanks for last season Roberto, but goodbye.

Ste Traverse
60 Posted 04/01/2015 at 00:37:11
Colin #156

Fergie won Scottish championships, and other trophies, ahead of the Glasgow big two. He also added the European Cup Winners Cup to his haul, beating the mighty Real Madrid in the final.

How is that similar to what Martinez achieved at Swansea?

Your stubborn blind faith in Martinez is admirble, but in my opinion, totally deluded.

Peter Barry
61 Posted 04/01/2015 at 01:37:42
Wigan's ex-manager, Wigan's backroom staff, and five ex-Wigan players ... so anyone who expects us to play like Barcelona instead of Wigan are 'avin a larf'.
Ernie Baywood
62 Posted 04/01/2015 at 03:08:28
I don't expect us to play like Barcelona but your point really doesn't stand up to any scrutiny Peter. Presumably the fifth player is Baines, by the way?

Baines and JMcC are first choice. Kone now finally competing for second choice striker. Nothing wrong with that.

It's the ex Man City, ex Man Utd, and ex Chelsea players in our team that I'm more concerned about.

Laurie Hartley
63 Posted 04/01/2015 at 08:36:07
Jay, very well researched, logical, and written article with a title that says it all.

I agree with your assessment of the situation and what is more, I believe anyone who thinks our manager has got till the end of March or even the end of February to turn this situation around is living in la-la land. He has got, at best, till the end of January. Look at the upcoming fixtures.

Jay, you have given us the facts and figures – but I like the big picture rather than numbers when assessing a situation – I'm not that good with detail. I hope you won't mind me drawing a picture of the situation you describe for our fellow Toffees, by using an allegory based on the natural world:-

Lake Erie represents the the Premier League and Lake Ontario represents the Championship.

You have have been paddling the waters of Lake Erie in your 12-man canoe each weekend for years and know your way around it. Then, one year your helmsman decides he's had enough of this particular canoe and decides to take up the position of helmsman that has recently become vacant on another 'state of the art' canoe.

The owner of your particular canoe is very upset by this chain of events but gets a call from his mate who also has a canoe but, due to circumstances beyond his control, has recently had to take up residence on the shores of Lake Ontario. It turns out his, helmsman doesn't like Lake Ontario and wants to go back to Lake Erie, so a deal is done between the two owners which involves him coming over and bringing some of his old crew with him.

Anyway, after much handshaking, joviality, promises and "Welcome aboard", the newly formed crew and helmsman set off on their usual weekend voyages around Lake Erie. The new helmsman introduces a new paddling technique which takes them to some beautiful places on the shores of the Lake that they had never seen before – in fact "places that they had never even dreamed of..." It was lovely.

Then one weekend the wind blew hard and as a result they were drawn into the mouth of a river by a very strong current. There were a lot of people on the banks of the river waiving at them but the crew were too busy trying to turn the canoe against the current (which seemed to be getting stronger) to take any notice of them. The helmsman had told them to paddle harder (using his newly introduced paddling technique) to get them back into the waters of Lake Erie.

It turned out that the people on the banks of the river were trying to tell them that there was a landing point on the banks of the river not far from where they were but just beyond there was a dirty great big waterfall. What's more, to make the landing point, they had to change their paddling technique.

After a while, one of the crewmen asked his mate (they had become close friends because they came from the same land across the sea) what he thought those people on the banks were shouting and waiving about.

"They're telling us to paddle for shore," says the other.

"How do you know that?" says he.

"Because I've been on this river before and there trying to tell us about a dirty great big waterfall not far from here that drops into Lake Ontario."

"How high is it?" he asks.

"51 metres," says the other.

"How do you know how high it is?"

"My old crew mates told me," replies the other.

Meanwhile, the helmsman says "Paddle harder, me hearties!".

The crew, who had overheard this conversation, started looking over their shoulders and noticed further down the river 7 canoes that were paddling for the landing point which, as it turned out only, had 4 berths available. Despite the fact that they were paddling in the opposite direction, they also seemed to be gaining on one of the seven canoes which, rather disturbingly, had a helmsman who looked like a real hard case and was shouting at his crew to "paddle that way and paddle like £^(The silence from the board is deafening but either the manager has to start playing ugly and winning ugly or he has to go – it's that simple. It is a terrible thing to be sacked – I know from personal experience so I don't make that statement lightly, but there is far too much at stake here – the proud history and tradition of Everton Football Club and the pride and passion of hundreds of thousands of Evertonians past and present.

Fellas - West Brom 19th January and Crystal Palace 31st January.

I won't be at Goodison against West Ham or Man City but if I could be there I would be, and I would be getting behind the players 100% despite their recent performances. It is the most effective thing that can be done by the fans given the urgency of the situation and the time available.

Sean Price
65 Posted 04/01/2015 at 08:51:21
So, LH, what you're saying is we are up Shit Creek without a paddle?
Brian Waring
66 Posted 04/01/2015 at 10:21:15
"The fans, manager and players have to stick together and get us through this. In a few weeks time, I'm sure, we will look back on this black time as an unfortunate bump in our season."

Spot on Colin.

Jay Wood
67 Posted 04/01/2015 at 10:23:54
Surreal, Laurie! Only on TW! Thanks for lightening the mood...

Picking up again on my original post and follow-up comments at #51, I ask again this question:

Who sees this current team in this form coming back from 2-0 down on the last day of the season against the Crazy Gang of Wimbledon to avoid relegation – as we had to in 1994...? I know my answer.

It's more than a year since we turned a losing position into a winning one, but we've certainly lost plenty of games from winning positions.

Look, I understand staunch supporters of RM are reluctant to make him solely responsible for what is happening at EFC right now. To do so is, in a way, an admission that they were wrong about their absolute faith in him.

That said, some posts and posters in recent days seemingly deflect attention from his performance to the failings of the players, referees and our PL history.

We were NOT mugged by the ref in our recent games as some claim. Yes, we had pivotal decisions go against us. Single incidents over 90 minutes (105 minutes against Stoke!) should not determine the entire game. Did we not get lucky not to concede a penalty at Hull in the first 5 minutes?

Some say players' fitness is NOT the issue.... well, yes, it's not the SINGLE issue, but it is AN issue. The stats confirm what we can all see. If the league was based on half-time scorelines, we would be third in the league. In most games, the players are blowing out of their arses around the 60-70 minute mark. We don't last the 90 minutes well, which is in contrast to last season when we were scoring for fun in the last 10 minutes of many games.

It's also on record, from Bob's own mouth after pre-season last year, that he did more ball work with the players than bare physical exercise. Such was the nature of the ball work exercises, the players were surprised and delighted that they attained the same physical levels that they achieved under the more rigorous physical exercise regime they were familiar with under Moyes. It served us well last season.

So, did he apply the same pre-season training this year? Did intensity drop off? Was it all 'bitty' because of his own absence and that of players returning late from the World Cup? Whatever it is, fitness-wise we've looked undercooked all season.

Nor do I accept a now oft repeated claim that the players are not skilled enough to adapt to Bob's style of football. That is nonsensical! To quote RM (again!) himself, a month or two into last season, he spoke about how at Swansea it took the players more than half a season to adjust to his "football philosophy"; at Wigan, they took even longer, but at Everton they players adjusted within the first month!

So claims that the players aren't good enough simply doesn't stand up for me. We have essentially the same squad as last year which thoroughly excited and entertained us, playing Martinez's preferred system. We achieved our record PL points haul, scored goals for fun and maintained our mean defence. It is fair to conclude from that that the current crop of players are MORE than capable of adapting to Martinez's system and that he was effective in transmitting his methods and implementing them.

Let's take that a step further. If some still wish to argue that the current squad are not capable of playing the Martinez Way, then... why is the manager persisting in imposing on his players a style and method of play (some claim) they are not capable of producing? It's a recipe for the disaster that is unfolding...

From all we know of Martinez, he is clearly a serious student of the game. He must have studied different systems, strategies and training methods. If, as seems the case, last year's impressive and successful system has been "found out" then it is his duty, his responsibility, to find alternative ways for the players under his charge to win games.

And he is patently failing to do so.

Paul Tran
68 Posted 04/01/2015 at 11:46:40
Spot on, Jay. As I keep saying, I'd like the manager we had last season to come back. I suspect the players would as well.
Oliver Molloy
69 Posted 04/01/2015 at 11:56:41
Daniel A Johnson @41.

Who are these "lots of good young managers" out there Daniel?
Maybe you could enlighten me / us with your knowledge of same.
Why would you not make a suggestion when you posted?

I would think most chairmen @ football clubs would be in the same boat as you describe Kenwright to be fair.

Leon Drake
70 Posted 04/01/2015 at 12:00:41
Regarding the Newcastle game, I had my mate who's a Newcastle fan text me after 30 mins into it, slagging Pardew off. I replied: "You'll still win because our line-up and the clown that we've got in charge. They have to get rid now because he's clueless and his signing of Wigan players is going to take us down!"
Jay Wood
71 Posted 04/01/2015 at 12:17:00
Sorry if the funny formatting in my post @ 67 makes for difficult reading ... dunno why it's done that. Any suggestions Editors...?
Brent Stephens
72 Posted 04/01/2015 at 12:37:46
Laurie #64 "Michael, sorry about the formatting - could you tidy it up for me please." At first sight I thought that might be Roberto posting.

Seriously, does anybody know whether Roberto has anybody who he might regard as a mentor (outside of EFC) who he might turn to for advice? Do we know if he had any early mentor (as opposed to just somebody he admired)?

We sometimes hear of managers relatively new to the game (as Roberto is) who do turn to a mentor or father figure.

Jimmy Kelly
73 Posted 04/01/2015 at 15:19:52
Robin (31), I think a key aspect of the debate is whether or not you believe this is the first crisis we've had under Roberto.

Some people may feel that the first 3 games of last season were an indicator of the problems we were going to face. Others may think the demolition at Anfield, followed by losses at Chelsea and Spurs, and Arsenal in the cup was another. There are those who think losing 3 out of the last 4 games of last season was a mini-crisis, and more still who would believe the dreadful pre-season and start to this season could be seen that way.

Regardless of your take on those periods, I don't think anybody can disagree that this is a full-blown crisis. You mention the last days of Smith's tenure in your post. If you look at the results from that period you may be surprised at the similarities to now, and more worryingly the performances currently have a similar look to them.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone wants Martinez to fail; however, there are those who had reservations last year despite it being a fairly good season and us occasionally playing excellent football (make no mistake, by the way, it was occasional). Just because some people didn't see this coming, does not mean there were no warning signs.

This is not an 'I was right' post. I like Martinez, and, if he could bring himself to change things, I think he could be brilliant for us. The problem is, he shows very little sign of changing.

Patrick Murphy
74 Posted 04/01/2015 at 15:51:39
Brent - I think that is an important observation as Roberto does seem to only have had the same voices in his ear as he had at Wigan or Swansea, most younger managers have somebody that they tailor themselves on or who they try and emulate in certain situations.

When a manager hasn’t played at the highest level or played under a manager who has, it must be difficult to understand the differences between top level players and lower league players. However, I don’t think that Roberto would radically alter the way he feels the game should be played, regardless of the advice he was given and who gave it.

Paul Thompson
75 Posted 04/01/2015 at 16:51:55
On paper this team should not be in this situation. But it is. More worryingly on recent form we are actually the worst team in the Premier League. We have lost badly against teams who were themselves playing badly until they came up against us. And there is no indication that Martinez or the players have the will or wit to turn it round.

I really fear for our chances of staying up as the teams below are picking up points and I can't see where ours are coming from. Kenwright is in a difficult situation. Does he allow Martinez to buy and sell in the window and hope for the best, or bring in someone else to make those decisions?

I suspect we might see the worst of both worlds – Martinez kept on, spends our money and we still fail to end our winless streak in January. I've never wanted to be wrong more in my life.

Brent Stephens
76 Posted 04/01/2015 at 17:40:32
Patrick #74, like yours, my hunch is that he won't be changing things too much (damn, he's said as much). But I just wonder if he does ever consult anybody, any mentor, outside of the club, or at least is tempted to now. Talking to only your own staff runs the danger of group-think; worse still, talking to only yourself merely invites in the men in white coats (if nobody responds to this post, I'll call the men in white coats for myself!).

All those with inside information on various matters presumably can let us know?

Tom Bowers
77 Posted 04/01/2015 at 18:09:43
The most glaring aspect of Everton's recent demise is the defensive solidarity. I am not talking just about the back four whatever that may be but the team as a whole. Most teams will have attacking woes at times and it is at those times you expect all players to backtrack and close the opposition down. Everton's players have been negligent in that area for most of the season which tells me they either lazy, not quick enough or just playing to orders.

I believe it is a combination of the first two that RM Has yet to rectify. Sure we know Lukaku doesn't hold up the ball well but it shouldn't result in other teams breaking and causing panic at the other end which I have seen all too often this season. Barry is only a shadow of the player he was last season but keeps getting picked.

It's tough watching the Blues play as bad as they are. We hope that the right changes are made to turn things around; if that means the departure of RM then so be it.

Helen Mallon
78 Posted 04/01/2015 at 18:15:36
Colin Glassar what you are not getting is those managers had different styles of play and formations this manager does the same thing over and over. Time will tell
Michael Kenrick
79 Posted 04/01/2015 at 18:43:07
Jay (#71),

I'm guessing you composed your epistle in another app and then pasted it into the Comment window... For some reason, at our end, this converts many punctuation and 'special' characters into the gobbledegook (ASCII?) codes we see. Whereas, I think if you type it in straight off the keyboard, this does not happen.

Not sure what the problem is or why it really occurs... text is text, init? I think it has something to do with the switch to php which we made a few years back... Lyndon may be working on a solution but it is pervasive in that it affects a lot of our old pages as they too are no longer rendered properly...

Technology is great... but it ain't perfect!

Mark Evans
80 Posted 04/01/2015 at 18:59:51
The worst aspect of all this is that there is absolutely no sign of improvement. Given our current predicament you would at least expect some degree of fighting spirit to try and get themselves out of the mire but we just look worse with each game that passes.

Typical example was the debacle at Hull where we were 2-0 down at half-time and staring defeat in the face. You would've at least expected some attempt at a fightback to take the game to Hull but nothing happened, no chances created and no shots on target and 2-0 it finished.

There needs to be a radical improvement and quickly. Looking at the fixtures to come in the next month or so we'll be struggling to pick up points to keep us out of the drop zone.

The silence from the Everton hierarchy is deafening, are they aware of the mess we're in and the way the majority of the fans feel? I wonder....

Tony Abrahams
81 Posted 04/01/2015 at 20:18:58
Paul Thompson? I can't see there being much money for the manager if we haven't signed a keeper mate. Then again, not many managers join a top six football club and make a profit in the transfer market during their first twelve months.

Even if we were playing well, I honestly don't think we could get away with playing Robles for six weeks. Let's hope I'm wrong.

Colin Gee
82 Posted 04/01/2015 at 21:19:48
Paul #75 your first paragraph is spot on.

With this squad we have at the moment we should be challanging for Europe instead of relegation.

A little test: name your worst Everton XI, would any of the current squad be in it? Probably not, it would be full of players from the Kendall Mk3, Mike Walker and Walter Smith eras.

So why are we playing so badly which such good players? That has to be down to the Manager and his Coaching Staff, if they can't motivate the players, then we are in deep shit.

How many of us in our day jobs have had a crap Manager and said to ourselves "I will do fuck all for him" That's how it seems to be at the moment, if the rumours of fallouts in the Dressing Room are correct, then no wonder we are playing the way we are.

Laurie Hartley
83 Posted 04/01/2015 at 21:47:33
Sean @ 65 - in a round about sort of way.

My other half often says I am a bit long winded.

Brian Waring
84 Posted 05/01/2015 at 12:16:48
Xavier, agree it was a good result for Moyes, but it's swings and roundabouts. I watched Villarreal a few weeks ago twat Sociedad 4-0 and it could have easily been 8, because Sociedad were all over the place defensively.
Sid Logan
85 Posted 05/01/2015 at 13:54:24
Jim #73
Agree with every word. Glimpses of failings seen in a number of games at the end of last season have now become firmly entrenched in our everyday play. These included increasing period of pointless possession with little forward thrust, a more deliberate and slower tempo of passing almost out of a fear of giving the ball away and an inability to lift the tempo when the opportunity to switch to attack presented itself.
Then as now resulted in long periods when the opposing goalkeeper was never worked.
More than anything I would like to Martinez show some recognition of the problems we can all see but I honestly don't think it's in his DNA.
Yesterday under Cam Mathews' post 'Tis the winter of our discontent' we had some light relief from our problems when quotations were coming thick and fast. So jus for good measure, I'll throw in another: "Change almost never fails because it's too early. It almost always fails because it's too late".

Mike Childs
86 Posted 05/01/2015 at 20:46:02
Myself I've already admitted he fooled me but even with my lack of total understanding of tactics etc. I just can't get the picture out of my mind of Jag's, Barry and Alcarez not even attempting to offer a chase after Jelly on Hulls' second goal. It's painfully obvious that these overpaid lads have quit on him.

Don't see anyway back from that. The Fact that he continues to put them out there in an attempt to win them back has failed miserably.

The most enjoyable game in the last 6 weeks or so was the dead rubber against Krasndor because the players on the pitch that night actually showed heart. We're lucky if we get 3 players from the senior members who shows up with that Intensity.

Neil Riddell
87 Posted 06/01/2015 at 09:59:33
Unfortunately, it is now clear that Martinez must be got rid of (but only when a really good replacement can be found). If anyone had said that to me, or any of us, last summer we would have laughed in their face.

In retrospect, a manager who had just presided over a team being relegated should never have been appointed. I really like the guy, but I'm afraid all that matters in football is results, and whatever the reasons are, this season is shaping up as a disaster.

We have a fantastic group of young players on the field and coming through the ranks, thanks to our youth system, thanks to Moyes, thanks to Martinez. If we can just hang on to them and get a really good manager, we have a great future. Unfortunately, for whatever the reason, Martinez is not a winning coach (FA Cups aside).

Sid Logan
88 Posted 06/01/2015 at 11:49:01
This does sound simplistic but many problems often are – implementing the solution is what's complicated.

As the debate goes on it's beginning to look increasingly as though our success last season was due to a combination of Moyes's grit (still imbued within the players) and Martinez's sin miedo brand of football.

The approach to fitness, defending clearing the lines would undoubtedly stay with the players until it was trained out of them. That's where we seem to be this season. The players are now fully Martinized and to be frankly it isn't looking too promising!

The answer would be to bring back Moyes as Martinez' Number 2. I'm sure he's be available – after all, his team only just managed to scrape a win against Barcelona so his currency won't be that high in Spain.

Tom Bowers
89 Posted 06/01/2015 at 12:13:54
For all those who say not to panic and leave RM alone... think again. This post tells the true story and is what I have been saying since day one of the season. The Blues are an average team with an average manager with the current league position reflecting that.

BK may be burying his head in the sand but I suggest he stands up like a man and acts now. A win against the Hammers today changes nothing in the Premier League and, with Man City coming up on Saturday, who knows where they will be next.

Dave Lynch
90 Posted 06/01/2015 at 12:22:36
Sid.

Nail, hammer, head.

Then you go and ruin it by suggesting we bring the dour one back.

Sid Logan
91 Posted 06/01/2015 at 12:34:19
Dave, only joking – I wouldn't have him back for a big clock!

However the thought of putting some steel in Martinez's way of doing things is what's required. Unfortunately, we all know it's not going to happen.


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