Putting current form to one side (for the purposes of this article only), why are so many of our players grossly underperforming?
When I talk to friends who support other Premier League clubs (Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Newcastle Utd, Arsenal and Spurs) they view our players very positively. All would take Baines at the drop of a hat, although they accept he might not be a regular at Chelsea. Coleman is coveted and all would see him a valuable acquisition to their team / squad. Jagielka, despite my own thoughts, is seen as a good solid Premier League defender. Stones is generally unknown to most, but they are impressed with what they see – they even think Howard is one of the top 5 goalies. In midfield Barkley is admired by them all and Barry is rated by Man City fans very highly.
McCarthy divides opinion but again he is seen a better than average. Mirallas is another good player who most would be happy to see in their squad. Besic is a complete unknown and Naismith is one of the few who gets little thought. Piennar and Osman are seen as ‘past it’ and Kone is not favoured by any. Lukaku is seen as a beast who many would far rather have playing for them than against them.
So in general we have a bunch of players who, playing to their ability, should beat / challenge all in the league. However, as we can all too plainly see, that is not the case. Players having off days and a run of poor form is not new and in any sport is to be expected but why, as a collective, are so many underperforming at the same time?
For me the answer is obvious, the tactics, formation, system however you want to dress it up, is one they are not comfortable with and they cannot implement easily. The manager wants them to play in a way that they find hard to implement and he seems hell bent on getting them to do it.
No different from last year some will say, but it is, in one massive way – the speed at which we break and attack. Last year I remember sitting at matches and commenting that we had pace in attack for the first time in years. The ball was moved quickly and whether it was Baines, Coleman, Mirallas, McCarthy, Barkley or Lukaku we attacked quickly and caused all sorts of problems. When we didn’t break quickly we were happy to keep more possession, but in general we played the game at speed and positively – the School of Science!
What have we seen from day one this year? Slow deliberate building up from the back, countless square passes by which time the opposition has funnelled back, has 9/10 men behind the ball and space is at an absolute premium for players like Lukaku and Mirallas. As Carragher and Neville say – slow and predictable and easy to defend against.
So this wonderful tactician, as the pundits would have us believe, does what? He keeps doing the same thing time and again and somehow thinks the outcome is going to be different. He applauds possession football but fails to realise that winning matches, by scoring goals, is the aim not passing the ball to death. For example we have the situation where last year Seamus would have knocked the ball past his defender and run, to the situation now where he stops, passes square or backwards but retains possession – playing to orders or what!!!
This man’s complete blindness to the obvious failings of his tactics is bewildering. Last night it was clear 10 mins into the second half that West Brom’s defensive set up needed something different to break it down. He stood there and made a change 12 mins from the end – so he either has no faith in Kone (his signing), or refuses to believe his tactics might not be working. The arrogance is both disturbing and scary and is a recipe to sleep walk into relegation. Teams at the bottom will graft and fight to get points, he wants to play pretty football – who is likely to stay up and who is likely to get relegated? Wigan, anyone?
I was very much against Moyes in the end, partly because I was so fed up walking out of Goodison dispirited and bored by the defensive dross served up. Last night I again walked out dispirited and bored, this time by the mind-numbing dross served up. Under Moyes, I never really thought about relegation, even in the worst season; sadly all I heard walking out last night was people talking about relegation.
Time for action – either change your approach Martinez or Kenwright pull the trigger – sadly, and very depressingly neither is likely to happen and god forbid if the worst scenario happens. I was planning to go to Bern in a few weeks, after last night I just think I’m going to keep my money in my pocket.
Reader Comments (111)
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1 Posted 20/01/2015 at 15:01:56
2 Posted 20/01/2015 at 15:07:46
The problem going forward is confidence. Barkley summed that up for me, he chose to pass constantly instead of running at defenders at his best. Lukaku had no service and Naismith is playing out of position.
Martinez to me is not doing great at getting that confidence back. That's his job and it's not working. I'm still a fan but patience is wearing thin.
And then in defence, the notable decline of 3 players - Distin, Barry and Howard. They were good and solid last year. Now they will need replacing. Besic can do that for Barry, jurys out on Robles but we need a new centre back ASAP!
The answer? I think a couple of signingswould help, just to rejuvenate the squad. A quality flair player and a solid centre back. Im not naive in thinking it would be easy, of course it's incredibly difficult, but Roberto did it a year and a half ago with 3 excellent signings at the time.
Im hoping he's got people got in mind and can pull it out the bag again.
3 Posted 20/01/2015 at 15:21:43
We are playing our way into the Championship instead of fighting to stay in this league.
That's the crux of the matter.
Will Martinez care if he takes a second club down?
Last time he was relegated he got a plumb job and probably a lot more money.
4 Posted 20/01/2015 at 15:27:39
Last night I lost count of the times when space opened up wide from an initial passing move and, instead of crossing, the ball was played back and forth three or four times before the ball was ever played into the box. It just seems counter productive, like the manager and/or the team have fallen in love with the concept of short passing for its own sake rather than the *benefits* of short passing, which is what brought us our success last season.
5 Posted 20/01/2015 at 15:40:17
He is no more than a journeyman type manager in the mould of Megson, Warnock, McCarthy...
6 Posted 20/01/2015 at 15:12:00
Confidence is affecting us, but we just donÂt seem to have enough craft out on the pitch. We get it wide, but it very rarely comes into the box.
Some of the positions Coleman finds himself in ahead of the ball, are for a fullback in a flat back four, hard to work out.
We play way too slow, but is it any wonder when nearly everything has to go through Barry, the slowest player on the pitch. Not saying he does a bad job, it just takes to long, with very little variation.
We have had an unbalanced team for most of the season, and itÂs no coincidence to me, that the last game we won we played with two natural wide men.
Too many stories coming out of finch farm, and there is definitely a lack of discipline (last nightÂs penalty) and an even bigger lack of leadership.
If we canÂt find a wide man, we must change our formation. Square pegs in round holes might work occasionally when a team is winning, but when itÂs not going right every player has got to know his job.
Take last night for instance. There wouldnÂt have been many watching, not shouting for Kone to come on, but what position did he play in, when he did go on?
7 Posted 20/01/2015 at 15:35:01
Last season we had Pienaar linking mostly with Baines down the left (couple of times it was Oviedo) and Coleman with Mirralas/Delboy down the right, added to that Osman played every single league game and Barkley played in the middle often. I.e. most games we mostly had midfielders playing across the AM positions in position they were comfortable with. (Mirralas is a forward but has gotten used to playing wide). None of Osman, Pienaar or Delboy are world beaters but they are midfielders and not forwards or strikers and comfortable on the ball. Added to that Pienaar and Oviedo both can comfortably play down the left, ie out wide.
This season Pienaar and Osman have been mostly missing, McGeady has been poor and Barkley has played wide more often than not. How many games have we played where at least 2, if not all 3, AM positions have been taken by Naismith, Barkley, Eto and Mirralas? Mirralas can play wide, all the other 3 are not effective out wide (Eto and Naismith are not even midfielders) and make matters worse by not linking well with the relevant FB. Our FB play used to be a decent weapon but this simply doesnt work if there's no wide midfielder linking up well. Our wide AMs tend to be central (forward)players and drfit in, hence Baines and Coleman have been ineffective this season.
Playing poorly, not winning, mostly loosing. All these things completely wipe out any confidence the team had. Without confidence the whole team then plays nervously, players don't want the ball in case they make mistakes and are afraid to try things.....all this is a snowball effect and the situation gets worse and worse.
Solution? Decent manager would;
i) recognise what;s happening and first of all make us hard to beat and working very hard to close down the oppo
ii) change things a bit to try something different (if not formation then personnel)
iii) grind out a couple of results to get the confidence up
iv) HAS 100% BACKING OF THE PLAYERS
Personally I don't think RM is able to achieve any of the above 4 things.
Dead man walking.
8 Posted 20/01/2015 at 15:45:29
Last night was just the most blatant of examples.
What we have in addition is the rank irony of a team so rigidly sticking to the style the manager desires of attaining expressive football, that its devoid of exactly that.
11 years of the other guy, and people were saying 'we're Everton, we should be winning things' blah blah, but no. No one should be winning things, bar the billionaire owner. Everyone else is in the numbers game. And I seem to remember a succession of managers in a time before the ginger bloke where relegation was a possibility. The 90s I believe it was called.
Why get existential about it. The guy is more than likely a dud. Lose against Palace and that's my tipping point. Get shot.
9 Posted 20/01/2015 at 15:58:15
When the whole squad is off their game consistently you have to look at the management.
When the statistics run parallel with the managers previous record you have to look at the manager.
Good players do not turn into bad players overnight there has to be a reason.
All the team spirit and comradery that Moyes built up has evaporated.
The whole squad is playing without motivation and in a laborious way.
The players took it upon themselves to change tactics against West Ham and City but you could see Martinez discomfort at that.
He went on record during the week as insisting we will not change our passing game despite the fans and media pointing out it was not working.
He is a one trick pony who has been sussed out and is too obstinate to admit it and change.
He brought all his back room staff and a number of players from Wigan and what have we turned into ....... Wigan.
IMO the blame lies at the feet of one man and one man only.
Pre season preparations were not even fit for Chester City never mind EFC causing fitness and injury problems.
Players brought in did not improve the quality of the squad like we were promised in fact I question Martinez judgement of a player when I see some of the dross he has brought in.
But besides the complacency and stupid "phenominal" statements he does not inspire anyone and that for a Prem Mgr is a massive weakness.
For me there is only one solution to rescue the season and that is to book a taxi now.
10 Posted 20/01/2015 at 16:02:36
11 Posted 20/01/2015 at 16:15:37
12 Posted 20/01/2015 at 16:07:13
13 Posted 20/01/2015 at 16:08:24
1/ Push up so they hassle the back line to give them no time on the ball to stop the passing from the back; or
2/ Fall back and let Everton have the ball with 10 men in front of them.
What is missing? Pace of attack, being able to control a ball quick when receiving it and quick fire passing to get behind a defence. The manager will not change... so, as reluctant as I am, then change the manager, and quick!
14 Posted 20/01/2015 at 16:35:33
He really is an apprentice trying to be a craftsman and falling woefully short.
15 Posted 20/01/2015 at 16:34:30
17 Posted 20/01/2015 at 16:28:08
Is it confidence in their ability to tackle, pass or shoot ? Or is it confidence in the regime that currently runs the show ?
To have got this far in their careers - most were good enough to claim fifth place last season - it can't be the former. So what was it that occurred last summer that so altered the team dynamic?
Could it possibly be that a new relaxed approach to fitness training and practice left them confused and without clear direction ?Perhaps it's what didn't happen that's caused the loss of purpose rather than any sea change in the tactics their manager espoused . After all, he's always been the Archbishop of Passencenta !
18 Posted 20/01/2015 at 17:08:37
After listening to his post match interview I fast forwarded to May and heard him saying after relegation, "The players gave their all today and we were just unlucky".
I felt a little more optimistic after the previous 3 games as the players showed some fight.I then read in The Guardian that Roma and a few others had spoken to Roberto saying the team needed to play more directly. Out of the mouth of babes.
To tell the fans that Mirralis is injured when we all saw him jog off and that was why he was substituted was a joke! I would like to see KM on the transfer list to give him a kick where it is needed. He won't sign a new contract and he only has a year left on his contract
I think we have major problems and fear it is the only the fact that other teams are even worse that may save the club from relegation.
BK is not known as a sacking chairman, but things have moved on since the Walter Smith days, no-one wants to lose all that dosh.
I reckon that a loss to CP will see him gone, with temporary people in charge until the summer. I know Roberto signed a long contract but he will agree to "Part by mutual consent" as he won't want his reputation ruined by a sacking
19 Posted 20/01/2015 at 17:13:07
This season, it has been slow and laborious. I don't buy the 'sussed out' or 'confidence' arguments. The best teams keep the ball more, pass quicker and strike quicker. The good managers find ways of genuinely motivating their players - by organisation as much as platitudes.
The damning evidence against Martinez is that since the summer, he has presided over a team devoid of energy, confidence and strategy. The midfield is stuffed with similar players getting in each other's way and leaving the defence vulnerable. There is a complete lack of movement and energy, yet the more energetic, direct players like Oviedo, Besic and Garbutt seem to be played as a last resort. The body language suggests a group of players unhappy with everything. That's Martinez's job to put right and he's showing no signs of doing so. In the last few weeks he has appeared increasingly clueless regarding how he will turn this around.
Of course, there are many rumours and 'facts' about what's going on behind the scenes. I don't know about any of this, but it's clear that the camp appears divided, unhappy, unclear and disorganised. The players have largely let us all down this season, but at all times the ultimate responsibility lies with the manager.
I like the fact that we're not a 'sacking' club, I am dismayed at the clarion calls for ex-Everton players to manage the team, regardless of any evidence of ability. I like what I thought Martinez was trying to achieve, but there's no evidence of it happening this season or beyond.
If he gets sacked, I won't be coming on here protesting, but if we bring in a meathead ex-player whose only qualifications are 'knowing the club', the ability to shout and make players 'work hard', I will be.
20 Posted 20/01/2015 at 17:32:01
2. What Denis @ 7 says.
21 Posted 20/01/2015 at 17:43:02
22 Posted 20/01/2015 at 17:30:49
The run that followed wasn't that bad , win at WBA, loss at home to Palace, draw at Liverpool, unlucky loss at UTD, but all in all games we just give goals away through silly individual mistakes and bit by bit tension, lack of confidence, major injuries to McCarthy, Mirallas, just further eat away at our confidence.
Its Martinez's fault no doubt at all, his pre-season was a joke and he has never ever since found the key to scrape results, build confidence back. The other real boo boo was squandering 90% of available monies on 1 player and picking up two poor late players in Atsu and Eto who just haven't worked out.
Losing Osman, Pienaar, and McCarthy has been a huge blow though in saying that Moyes and Martinez last season and this have failed to bring in adequate replacements.
Martinez philosophy is built on positivity, both him and his players, he has overdone it far too much in his briefings and as a consequence we've been made to look foolish and even more confidence has been shot.
Honestly don't know the way forward, sack Martinez or bunker down this season, miss relegation more through that there are 3 other teams worst than us - QPR, Villa and I suspect Burnley and start afresh next season with Mr Positive still in charge
23 Posted 20/01/2015 at 17:53:34
We are shite and we are sinking and the manager has turned out to be a clown but Martinez was hardly backed in the summer, was he? Now we are paying the price. Eto’o came in and Deulofeu went out and that was it. Now Eto’o’s gone again?
Any other club which had finished 5th and pushed hard for 4th spot in the EPL would’ve gone out and broke the bank in the summer... We Â– or should I say Kenwright Â– has just sat there smiling thinking: "We’ve made it here, job’s a good’un."
Our squad was thin last season; now, this season, it’s even thinner and we are in Europe?Blame Kenwright as well as Martinez... Niether of them couldn’t lead a hungry donkey to a sack of carrots Â– and they certainly can’t lead this football club.
Potless, cluless, rudderless, and fucking pointless Â– that’s the club in four words.
24 Posted 20/01/2015 at 18:01:58
sometimes, when things are going pear shaped fast, it's best to let everything go and see what's left when it calms down.
Sometimes it's best to just do something, to react.
Difficult to know what to do.
We are in a very dodgy situation now and nothing looking good on the horizon. To do nothing at this relative late stage in the season would, in my opinion be criminal.
We really have to stop the rot - and extremely quickly.
Long term we have to look at next season but right now in the situation we find ourselves I doubt we could attract a top manager and we have to concentrate on getting out of our present situation.
It might not be ideal but can any "meathead ex player" be any worse than what we have right now ??
Maybe someone who would shout at players and make them work hard would be a plus just now.
The softly softly unbelievable phenomenal approach of Martinez is obviously not working.
25 Posted 20/01/2015 at 18:14:51
Is that what you thought at the time or is that a retrospective assessment? A loaded assessment in any event -- you refer to the Utd defeat as unlucky but don't label the point at Anfield as 'lucky'.
26 Posted 20/01/2015 at 18:29:29
27 Posted 20/01/2015 at 19:42:16
A lot of what I’ve read tonight on the site is very good alas sadly it doesn’t change our current predicament one I jot. Can’t add to what’s been said as I really don’t know what to be done. I didn’t even feel this bad in the 90s at least then I knew we had a shite team and it would be a relegation scrap. But to be facing Championship football with this squad of players nothing short of criminal.
Last night was shameful Â– watching that circus with Mirallas was embarrassing and said everything about our current plight.
My advice? Load up u tube and watch Arteta v Fiorentina like I’ve just done. Glorious.
28 Posted 20/01/2015 at 19:47:37
These are the fixtures left-i cant see where we get 17 from?
A Crystal Palace
H Leicester City
A Stoke City
A Swansea City
H Man Utd
A Aston Villa
A West Ham
29 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:01:29
30 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:02:04
31 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:09:05
Will we out football /outbattle Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs, Southampton, RS? Will we outbattle /out football the relegation strugglers?. I cant see us outfighting anyone at present. I really think we are in a spiral of decline and Martinez looks incapable of doing anything about it. I really hope I am wrong about him.
32 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:14:16
Have to best QPR, Burnley and Leicester to help our cause - wins over Palace and Liverpool in the next two would be the perfect tonic to be honest, I would look no further than those two games if I was Martinez.
33 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:17:44
34 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:23:41
I think we are spiraling downwards and in freefall. The next five games are, dare I say 'pivotal' and if we lose against Palace and Leicester as well as Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal (all three of which I think will beat us) then I think we are fucked!
35 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:32:32
36 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:45:24
37 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:47:50
I think almost all of us expected 3 points last night we got 1
Based on present form and lack of fight I think we'll do well to get anything from the teams below us !
Some posters were slagging off West Brom and their approach last night - I thought they played it great, bastards!
Teams below us will be exactly the same.
Talking of West Brom I asked the question earlier. Based on our situation and form at present, given the choice who would you prefer to have at the helm today ? Pulis or Martinez ?
People slagged him but by God he's sorted West Brom out.
38 Posted 20/01/2015 at 20:49:49
39 Posted 20/01/2015 at 21:13:28
glad you said that and that we have absolutely nothing to worry about. Obviously our position and form is not worth mentioning.
I bet you anything before the season started none of us, including yourself thought we would be in this position.
10 games in I bet you anything you would not have said we'd be in this position.
Thing is we are in this position.
If we all had your attitude that it is imposible for us to be relegated then we are in big trouble !
Problems have to be addressed and hard decisions taken to ensure we don't go down.
Burying your head in the sand will not cure our ills !
40 Posted 20/01/2015 at 21:17:24
41 Posted 20/01/2015 at 21:35:14
Ray (21 post), great observation, we were not tested, anybody who does not think a clean sheet or a good defense is a necessity is a gobshite.....
RM talks nonsense. I don't even want to listen to him nowadays. Just win some matches lad........
42 Posted 20/01/2015 at 21:48:59
Without going over the whole Mirallas shenanigans again,I think it will have a positive affect on the remainder of our season.
If he stays he owes us - big time, and if goes this could be a good thing for the team.
None of us know what has gone on in the training ground or dressing room,but we all know there has been unrest.
This "warm weather" training camp should be a good bonding break,and an opportunity for players and management to get a lot of their chests,and come back refreshed and with a lot to prove to all of us fans!
I said before the West Brom game that it was a must win game and I acknowledge we are in the relegation battle.
Our chairman is not going to sack the manager.
If we get stuffed 4 nil by Palace and then again at home to the our biggest rivals then he may have to act,but I don,t believe that will happen.
I think we will sign a few players also.
I,m keeping the faith and we will get out of this nightmare of a season and Martinez will be wiser for it.
That has to be the plan for the manager.
43 Posted 21/01/2015 at 00:35:09
I watched against Man City; okay, we played well compared to our recent form but they were pressing so high, the likes of Jagielka were making mistakes, like he was a Sunday league player. Coleman & Baines couldn't push forward.
We have just been sussed out... for example, Barkley under pressure what is he doing going sideways? Last year, people gave him space; he had time to think, he worked his magic. This year, two on him at all times, he can not handle it. Down to Roberto to be like okay we hit them with this style then maybe go back to that other style but he looks like he got one book and read it too many times.....
44 Posted 21/01/2015 at 00:20:18
Just a wee comment on this warm-weather break. I seem to remember Everton doing something similar last season, and their form dipped for a few games after it. I could be wrong on that but I think that I just might be right. Point is that a break might not have the required effect if the correct training is not enforced. And it seems that this Everton squad practise nothing worthwhile.
Last point, the Europa League will be upon us soon. Can Martinez mix that alongside a relegation scrap? Will Premier League survival play second fiddle to the Europa League? Can Martinez be trusted to do the right things for Everton with regards to that competition? Or will we sacrifice the points available from our Sunday Premier League games?
I somehow just don't trust Mr Martinez to do the right thing. This European campaign should be something to enjoy, but I'm sorry, I just cannot get into it this season. Wouldn't it be ironic if we actually won the Europa League and Martinez is lauded as a footballing genius? Think all us Everton supporters know different... Don't we.
I don't think that we will be relegated. But it will be close. And I also think that Martinez and his Wigan backroom staff have to go. Do we really want to go through all this crap again next season. Cause I don't think that Martinez has much more to offer.
45 Posted 21/01/2015 at 00:05:03
46 Posted 21/01/2015 at 07:54:24
In Cahill you could clearly see the players looked up to him and respected him,he just had that air about him of a leader which sadly Jags is clearly lacking an god knows right that is sorely needed.Out on the pitch we are lacking someone to drag the malaise out of the team and even though his best days are gone he would show up half of that team with his fight and effort for the shirt.
The mans passion for the club knows no bounds,you cut him and he bleeds blue.Sadly it is at a time like this we could use someone of his calibre.
47 Posted 21/01/2015 at 09:26:40
Who is the leader (captain) on the pitch.
Who is the leader (manager) off the pitch.
What the formation / style of play was asked of them.
If it's all of them then we have a chance. If some of them would take the huff at a change of captain or manager then that would make it much more difficult.
I think Joe Royle and Samuel Eto'o would have been a very good combination but the Eto'o ship appears to have sailed. Pity both winners, both leaders, both have a football brain. I am sure they would have gotten the best out of the squad.
Because in my view the one ingredient that the team and the club is short of at the moment is leadership.
Who amongst the crop of players we have available is a leader? You know the type of man I mean - perhaps someone you don't like on a personal level but one who you will listen to and take orders from when your back is to the wall.
Is there such a man in our squad? Because our backs are most definitely to the wall.
48 Posted 21/01/2015 at 09:58:11
When this happens, in most cases, the only answer is to replace the person who has overseen such a change.
Early March could be quite interesting.
49 Posted 21/01/2015 at 10:30:26
We can talk about what players should and shouldn't do. Some of this we can see for ourselves, some we are guessing at. End of the day, we have a manager to ensure they do what's required. Otherwise we'd just let them organise themselves, as they should know what to do (actually, isn't that what Leon's autobiog said was the reason they don't need to practice set pieces?).
50 Posted 21/01/2015 at 10:32:24
51 Posted 21/01/2015 at 10:34:22
However, I think change has to come a lot sooner than March for the clubÂs sake.
A desperate situation.
52 Posted 21/01/2015 at 10:42:21
69% possession and over 90% pass execution. What do you expected - goals? Who do you think we are, Aston Villa ?
And as for that penalty farce, don't you know we don't practice set pieces because they bring no real aesthetic value to the game ?
What this phase of the season is about is continuity, don't you know? And we are getting it. How many games is that without a win ?
Bloody supporters ! They do your head in !
53 Posted 21/01/2015 at 10:43:38
54 Posted 21/01/2015 at 10:59:47
55 Posted 21/01/2015 at 11:15:10
Don't think Bill Kenwright is the only sucker who appoints on a bullshit basis !
56 Posted 21/01/2015 at 11:26:55
I actually have lost confidence in Martinez and not the players at all, the players ability is more or less the same as last year.
57 Posted 21/01/2015 at 11:47:44
Bobby and Bill.
Together they have dragged the club into mediocrity and we as fans can only sit back and watch as the ship slowly sinks into the murky depths.
if we take the drop and sack him, who the hell of any note would take the job and bring us back up? I am bricking it as I honestly fear a Leeds, Wednesday scenario is on the cards.
58 Posted 21/01/2015 at 12:51:19
59 Posted 21/01/2015 at 13:04:51
Oh and Martinez is fucking clueless.
60 Posted 21/01/2015 at 13:18:24
Anyone who thinks we are not in a relegation fight and are too good to go down needs to wake up.
Martinez could relegate 2 teams in 3 seasons if he's not careful.
61 Posted 21/01/2015 at 13:17:55
He doesn't like what he's seeing on the pitch, the tactics (being a fan and reading what we all are saying) but is told these win games Â– they did last season. We have injuries etc, so that is why they are not working?
And finally, he's agreed to wait and see if RM can turn it round. His silence is disappointing. Perhaps by now he should have said something.
62 Posted 21/01/2015 at 13:26:23
63 Posted 21/01/2015 at 13:23:03
Brian Oviedo has been fit since the start of December and should imo be in the starting XI at AML every game from now on. He's not a natural midfielder but at least is left footed and won't look to come central. Last year he was great before his injury and showed he can play in that role. He can start to link up with Baines and form another decent partnership down our left to replace Pienaar (who even if fit is approaching the end of his career). He'll also provide a damn site more defensive cover down the left than anyone else Martinez is currently playing down there.
Basically since the EL dead rubber we've had 9 games in all competitions and he's started one (West Ham 1st cup game) and made just two second half sub appearances. Everytime he's played he's put in a decent performance so I am totally at a loss as to why he's not starting games down the left. It cannot be worse than starting McGeady, Naismith or Barkley out wide at this time.
Oviedo won't solve all our problems but it's at least a step in the right direction. Still also amazed he hasn't been given a new contract yet, he's now free to start talking to other clubs ffs!
64 Posted 21/01/2015 at 13:44:11
When RM was appointed, I thought he wasn't right for the job but was willing to give him time. Later, I came round to thinking maybe he was but realised he would need time for his plans to come to fruition. In my heart, I still hope this to be the case. However, I can see why others are upset and calling for him to go as my head can't justify his actions and utterings of late.
While it would not take much for me to decide maybe he should go, I can't come to that conclusion after Monday's game. Maybe if we lose to Palace then I may decide it would be better for him to go... but I feel that most people are going overboard after Monday's game.
65 Posted 21/01/2015 at 14:42:08
I do appreciate that do some students of the game, goals are irrelevant.
66 Posted 21/01/2015 at 15:00:16
Been advocating for this since Pienaar got injured.
Preferably Baines and Oviedo Or Garbutt and Baines Why we've been misusing Barkley, Eto'o and Naismith out wide is phenomenally mystifying
67 Posted 21/01/2015 at 14:42:45
In fact, our league form was by far the worst in the period when we were not "obstructed" by cup competitions and when "our priority" was the only thing that we can concentrate on, obviously doesn't change your opinions.
Europa League has nothing to do with us being shit. Quite the opposite: EL can help us, if play well at least one game and win it.
People, realize for once that European competitions can only be good for us. If we are doing things properly we will be fine; if not, it doesn't matter whether we are playing some more games or not. If Martinez continues like this, your wish will be granted very soon, but so will our participation in the Premier League.
68 Posted 21/01/2015 at 17:27:49
69 Posted 21/01/2015 at 18:02:38
I was initially sceptical about Martinez for the obvious Wigan/relegation issues. However, I was won over by the improvement both in our performances and the results. I had not seen a better display than the one against Arsenal since days of Kendal Mk 1.
Sadly I am now convinced that Martinez days are over and he has to be dismissed immediately (not that I think this will happen). If we do survive relegation it will be on a knife edge. Put ourselves in WBA shoes. Does anyone think that Martinez could organise the current team to put in such a disciplined defensive shift and keep out Chelsea, Arsenal etc?
I am another lifetime fan whose first games were in the Carey era and my father's ashes are in the remembrance garden in St Luke's backing on to Gwladys St (as a Catholic he may be doing somersaults but that is another story). This is as bad as I can ever remember.
70 Posted 21/01/2015 at 17:40:59
In this world we don't have defenses or set pieces and clean sheets don't matter, you win games based on possession, and every time a player gets taken off it is because they are injured (Mirallas - hamstring, Besic our best player had a knock and asked to get substituted?). We dream of Champion's League and I can walk out in my designer brown shoes and tell my team that wins one match in 14 that they are heroes!!!! We don't need a leader as the team will work together as one........And I think to myself 'What a wonderful world.'
I sit with my chairman and tell him how we will conquer Europe and instead of developing a new ground he sticks flags outside the ground and tells us about our great history.....perfect.....
Sorry about the sarcasm fellow Blues. I am trying to make light of a desperate situation.
The reality is both guys should show a set of balls and tell it how it is. I am not party to what happened on Monday but I would suggest that there were no injuries. If he was honest and said I took Mirallas off because he obeyed orders and I thought keeping Barry on and putting on Kone was a better bet tactically, I might not agree, but could accept that.
I actually know that BK loves the club and I like the guy. I may be in the next Rocky film? It is entertaining at half times, he loves to put on a show, he has limited funds and BK is a fan like us. He backed RM to 㿈m for Lukaku.
But the facts in the real world are:
In terms of ground development although we have new toilets in Lower Gwladys (thanks Bill), the last real ground development was the Park End under Mr Johnson. Who by the way had the balls to bring in Joe Royle the last time it went Pete Tong.
The facts say it all. One win in 14. Nobody could do worse. Even the national media who blow smoke up RM's arse, actually consider us relegation candidates....
So if we do not BEAT Palace then the guy gets his P45. Although BK is a dreamer, as a fan he has seen it all before, please give him some credit.
But maybe Bobby's World will prevail and we will beat Palace, LFC and Chelsea, then win the Euro Cup......
Living the Dream......PLEASE DON'T WAKE ME UP....
71 Posted 21/01/2015 at 19:17:16
Top sides have pace, pace and more pace and until we get some into our squad we will go on as we are.
72 Posted 21/01/2015 at 20:30:50
you are right Monday night in isolation wasnt too bad. It wasnt too good either.
Having only won one in 13 games we desperately needed 3 points.
The supporters knew that, the manager knew that and the players as sure as hell knew that.
We saw a glimmer of hope in the City and West Ham games even though we didnt win so the anticipation was there for a solid 3 points.
To not trouble their keeper in anyway whatsoever in 90 minutes when we controlled 70 % of the game speaks volumes about our style of play and the ineptitude of the manager.
If it was a one off like we used to get occasionally under OFM then we could probably swallow that but when people make "Phenominal" statements about being "incredible" after 13 games without a win and poor form before that including a Xmas period where we lost every game then Monday night was not that good.
73 Posted 21/01/2015 at 20:28:45
We have no one who can ruffle feathers in the oppositions box. So we carry on walking through a brick wall.
74 Posted 21/01/2015 at 20:28:30
The past two games against West Ham and Man City, saw what we thought, was a spark of commitment and desire to play the way they could, should. But that was eliminated against WBA as RM obviously insisted on a method of play that is not suited to the quality of players we have.
A lot of money buys exceptional players, who can turn a game with individual brilliance, clubs without massive cash reserves play to their strengths and individual capability. We, clearly are not doing this and clearly the players are not enjoying the football either.
If you keep doing the same thing and getting the same results then you have to change it. Possession without pace is boring. Possession without penetration is pointless. Literally.
RM has dug himself a hole and he keeps digging. A wise man would tap him on the shoulder and tell him to stop, that's down to BK.
Adopting a philosophy of play is great in theory, but to consistently perform it needs moments of tactical skill and directness in the face of the opposition, who have Sussed out RM and his adherence to style over substance.
It's clear that even with the best will in the world that when things aren't working you have to change your approach. You can only wait so long before you have no choice. The longer you wait the more risk you load upon the club.
David Moyes served up some dire performances in his time with a brand of negativity that was painfully consistent sprinkled with some brilliance. By comparison Roberto has served us with optimism without substance, a much worse meal to digest.
75 Posted 21/01/2015 at 22:06:09
Most of our players are mediocre and we are not improving as quickly as other clubs.
Our youngsters are a pretty disappointing bunch apart from Stones and Garbutt. Other clubs seem to be producing better youngsters.
The squad needs a big overhaul as did Man Utd. But Utd have bought their way out of trouble whilst we cannot.
76 Posted 21/01/2015 at 22:47:54
they weren't mediocre when they nearly got CL last season with 72 points.
Good players do not turn bad overnight.
It is obvious to everyone that if the whole squad has gone sour they have not lost their ability just the motivation.
77 Posted 21/01/2015 at 23:04:00
You cant take the praise when things are going well then moan when things turn bad and you get flack.
78 Posted 21/01/2015 at 23:15:37
We're victims of our ability to keep the ball, and it's as simple as that. When we have less possession we're more effective as an attacking unit because we attacked with pace.
When we keep the ball, the opposition gets organised, sits back and we struggle. Simple.
Let the opposition have a bit more of the ball - Barkley, Lukaku, Mirallas, even the much derided McGeady, all better when running at back-pedalling defenders.
End of story.
79 Posted 21/01/2015 at 23:08:33
The big problem is that he doesn't seem to have any other ideas (or is unwilling) to find another way to break down the lesser teams. Even fat Sam alluded to this in the preamble to the FA Cup game.
Added to this, you've got the likes of Barry and Distin another year older. And while I'm a massive Lukaku fan, if Martinez knew the well would be dry for transfers this window that 㿈m may well have been better spent on a striker for half the money.
80 Posted 21/01/2015 at 23:22:06
"disappointing bunch apart from Stones and Garbutt. Other clubs seem to be producing better youngsters."
"Other clubs" produced Garbutt and Stones, we didn't.
81 Posted 21/01/2015 at 23:23:58
82 Posted 21/01/2015 at 23:51:48
83 Posted 22/01/2015 at 00:01:19
In these situations, your chairman has to make a decision on whether to gamble on the upturn in confidence or make a change to a manager who can provide this. I feel that if this change is not made, our chairman will retire from Everton knowing that he had the final say in the downfall of a great football team, and will go down in history for not making the change when all the warning signs were there.
Wigan fans and Chairman must be thinking this as they stare at the possibility of life in the 1st division.
84 Posted 22/01/2015 at 04:05:12
The derby fast approaching, IÂm having nightmares already.
Heaven help us all.
85 Posted 22/01/2015 at 03:40:48
With Martinez being the perfect mouthpiece for BK, it's hard to see him losing his job. We've even got young Stones being pushed forward to spout positive rubbish.
Hopefully we'll escape the drop but it will be tight.
86 Posted 22/01/2015 at 06:49:55
To make matters worse, after Monday nightÂs usual disappointingly inept shite, the following night I watched them from across the park produce a performance full of pace, desire, commitment and purpose. I am ashamed to say, I was jealous... ThatÂs how bad itÂs got.
Sadly, I think the solution is not merely sacking the manager... the Board is a joke. No ambition, just content to keep hold of the train set...
87 Posted 22/01/2015 at 06:58:00
I fear the bigger problem is that good old Bill and half the fan base will only fully realise that when it is too late...
88 Posted 22/01/2015 at 10:45:29
I turned this shit off. Twenty minutes in and I would have dragged Barkley and Barry then either Coleman or Baines or Jags. Put Kone up with Rom, give McAleny and Oviedo a run and go long pumping high balls to the front two or three, might get a lucky break a free-kick for Mirallas to line up.
Albion weren't up for a game of football Â– why the fuck oblige them piss farting around playing keep ball.
89 Posted 22/01/2015 at 12:24:20
95% of the issues are player and referee related; granted, Martinez's tactics aren't helping but the players are the ones who need to take responsibility and sort this out.
ps: We've been shite ever since Sharp/ Stuart and Snods became ambassadors and the new mural went up!
90 Posted 22/01/2015 at 13:24:06
91 Posted 22/01/2015 at 13:34:21
It's easy to look at individual players and then conclude that we have a great team. Pundits were doing the same with Brazil at the World Cup. Individually, they look good, Neymar, Willian, Oscar, Fernandinho, Thiago Silva etc. but we all know that they couldn't defend and couldn't break down teams who put 10 men behind the ball.
92 Posted 22/01/2015 at 14:00:25
regarding your excuses:
"Bad injuries to key players" Â† If that was true then Southampton should be bottom of the league.
"Referee decisions going against us" Â– Every team makes the same complaint plus we've had a couple go for us as well.
EVERY other excuse as you say is player/playing related and EVERY one of them can be and should have been addressed by one man Â– Martinez. We are where we are due to the shite the manager has inflicted upon us from the close season Â–and nothing has been changed.
93 Posted 22/01/2015 at 14:08:37
In fact, I'd be looking to try to sign Alderwerield and Bertrand for starters, they are both only on loan at the Saints and I also reckon Shane Long would be a perfect addition alongside Lukaku with his relentless workrate.
94 Posted 22/01/2015 at 16:03:01
95 Posted 22/01/2015 at 16:53:22
96 Posted 22/01/2015 at 16:54:31
97 Posted 22/01/2015 at 17:00:37
98 Posted 22/01/2015 at 17:09:16
the reason I said that is because this season Southampton have had major injuries both long and short term to key players.
So if we are using injuries as a reason for our present position then Southampton should be below us.
Their squad is as small, if not smaller than ours.
The major difference is in the management style. They have brought in reserves in their correct positions whereas we've played people out of position.
I just hate it when I hear supporters blaming injuries contributing to our present situation.
The reason we are where we are is purely down to the manager with shite tactics and personnel choices.
All teams suffer injury issues throughout the season, good managers manage them - Martinez doesn't !
99 Posted 22/01/2015 at 18:26:41
Eto'o isn't a midfielder Naismith or Barkley aren't wingers and Robles isn't a Goalkeeper
101 Posted 23/01/2015 at 07:44:58
Howard has got worse: his shot-stopping has dropped from one goal conceded every 2.5-ish shots to 1.2-ish shots.
Players have got older
We have changed our formation. So last season we played with similar players but in a different formation. Mirallas was on the right wing with Pienaar on the left, or McGeagy covering. Not to mention Del Boy playing his role. This provided width to our game, Baines and Coleman provided overlap. This season, McGeady and Mirallas rarely start together, Pienaar is injured. So we have gone from 4-2-3-1 to 4-2-2-2 or 3-2-3-2. The final formation normally had Barkely and Eto'o standing in the same spot.
The other formation had Mirallas on the left which meant he spent a lot of time cutting back into the centre, making the team narrow. This lack of width has meant it is easier for teams to close us down and win the ball back.
Tempo: Last season, we played more long balls, moved the ball quicker front to back and closed teams down. This resulted in us winning the ball back higher up the pitch and allowing for quicker counter attacks. If you look at heat maps of Lukaku this season, he is playing, mainly, about 10 yards closer to our half-way line than last season. We play in less space, the opposition don't need to expend as much energy closing us down.
Now I would presume the final issue of passing and tempo is partly confidence. You are worried or the crowd are on your back, you make sure you make the pass, pass it short, keep the ball. Barkely is running less and laying it off more; the crowd are def on his back about this and the atmosphere has changed from last season, when I was off my seat when he got the ball, to head in hands and thinking what can I spend 㿨m on.
I don't think any of the problems, except age and injuries, are unrecoverable. Bob needs to decide if he wants to change things. I think the two weeks off will help as will Eto'o leave, less options of narrow play. If we could get a player like Del Boy in, that would help. But the biggest change needs to come from Bob saying we can have width and the players having confidence to do their thing.
102 Posted 23/01/2015 at 10:27:50
Barkley needs to start playing his own game and stop passing to Barry all the time.
We need a wide player who can cross a ball. There is too much dependency upon Coleman who after all is a very good full back at best.
Stones can't defend and needs time to develop. He needs to become more physical in his challenges and stop switching off.
The captain needs to step up and start to motivate the team on the pitch. He should have sorted out the Kevin penalty debacle.
103 Posted 23/01/2015 at 10:36:01
What a strange comment, I think you'll find there's about 14 other reasons, and they generally run around on the pitch.
Are you trying to say that the loss of McCarthy, Pienaar, Stones, Osman, Barry, Mirallas et al for long spells without the opportunity to bring in replacements hasn't weakened the team? The squad is obviously not performing to its capabilities, Martinez for all his faults cant 'force' the players to perform Â– that's the players job first and foremost.
104 Posted 23/01/2015 at 09:51:55
I didn't think we would miss Pienaar and Ossie so much, not to mention Delboy. We also had Barry, one year younger and pulling out all the stops for a contract and an England place. Howard was playing well, Barkley was flying and the centre backs still had a bit of pace and confidence. Lukaku never looked like a footballer but he scored goals and caused confusion. We also had Oviedo, a fit McCarthy and two red-hot fullbacks. Wow. What a difference a year makes.
The passing has gone to pot, everything is too slow and narrow, and your heat maps show that the big fella is playing too deep to be dangerous. The constant ball watching and inability to close down has been amateurish and disgraceful. We're in a mess and every coach in the game knows how to nullify our strengths. Martinez now has to change things and earn his money. He still wants to build from the back which is the way of all good teams, but they do it at speed and always seek to go forward. Players have to up the tempo and put in a real shift. We also have to up the skill levels and movement up front.
105 Posted 23/01/2015 at 22:09:59
Martinez has to go! Even if we survive relegation which I am certainly worried about he is not the one to lead us us forward ( I admit I thought he was) his stubbornness and playing of favorites BARRY is enough to fire him!
106 Posted 24/01/2015 at 08:32:14
Agree about Pienaar. Once a terrific little player, it was painful to watch him struggling for pace when his legs started to go. Ossie too.
Like you, I feel very let down by Martinez. My many supportive posts are now looking pretty stupid. I'm not against BK because he's always true to form and we know exactly where we stand with him but Roberto had me duped.
Okay, he genuinely believes in his system, which worked well till everyone cottoned on to it, but it has shackled some of our best players and needs to be ditched. Unfortunately, he says he's changing nothing.
Last night, I watched Man Utd playing the same system with multi million dollar players and they failed to beat a League Two side. Sideways passing, slow tempo and a reluctance to cross. No wonder they can't score goals.
107 Posted 24/01/2015 at 16:53:41
However, this is Everton 2015 and sadly not Everton 1985... How is this "no mark" regime still in place???
Did anyone else notice how shit Man Utd were last night? Has Louis van Gaal decided to adopt Mr Phenomenal's ethos after all? Somebody wake me when this 'mare ends!!!!
108 Posted 24/01/2015 at 17:35:58
Some posters have been saying "he should be given the benefit of the doubt" "Wait until March and see where we are" and an assorted of dates and times when we should reassess the situation. In my opinion all too late !
So lets have a quick look at our next 3 matches.
Palace away. New manager, unbeaten in 4, great win at Southampton today, confidence sky high.
RS home. Well they are definitely on a roll and have put their woes well behind them. Confidence sky high knowing they can always nick a goal. We all know these bastards have the Indian Sign over us.
Chelsea away. Top of the league, without doubt the best squad in the league by far. Lost today and out the cup, Jose will be having kittens, have them all in tomorrow and read the riot act. They'll have a point to prove and wouldn't surprise me if they go on an unbeaten run after Joses "meeting"
Personally I can't see a point out of these games. No doubt we'll get all the excuses.
At least when the lads get interviewed after the games to explain their shite performances they'll look well with their suntans !
111 Posted 30/01/2015 at 21:58:04
The only thing that can save us from relegation is a complete turn around in this idiots tactics or a It is rumoured that our senior players have had a word in his ear. My response to that is why did it take them so long to do that. Perhaps they are totally befuddled by this charlatans propaganda.
Those of us who know a little about this game realized months ago what every man and his dog also knew about the basic flaws in Roberto's grand plan. It is beyond credibility that some who is paid an absolute fortune to lead our club is so pathetically inept.
One would have thought his experience at Wigan would have been a salutary and unforgettable lesson. It is staggering that he is treading the same path and persisting with the same failed system.
Last season when everyone was gushing over Roberto's 'joined up stuff' I was warning about its slowness and the potential danger of pointless fiddling passes among our back line.
The Anfield slaughter and subsequent games were a clear warning of what to expect. Premier league managers, except perhaps ours are quick in latching on to a systems flaws and boy did they rip into Roberto's. Despite all that while there is a god in his heaven we will not go down.
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