Dear Roberto,

My name is Steve Stobie and I warrant that you will not have heard of me, and unfortunately, I have to say that I am not a regular visitor to Goodison Park either. With a family of three children, all 7 years and under, and living down here in beautiful Berkshire, a trip up to the mighty Goodison Park is not on my radar at the current point in time. However, I have supported Everton since 1985 and have therefore seen some of the best teams in Everton Blue, including players the likes of Southall, Ratcliffe, Reid, Bracewell, Sheedy, Steven, Heath and Sharp, and also some of the worst, especially throughout my school years, with players such as Tiler, Ward, Thompson, Farrelly and Angell gracing the team. But there were always heroes as well, Hinchcliffe, Ebbrell, Kanchelskis and Ferguson to name just a few.

Anyway, I digress. I am writing to you to express my deepest dissatisfaction with the way that you are currently managing my team, and sending them towards relegation from the Premier League, which is something that I cannot even believe I am writing at the current point in time.

For the last ten years, we have been a team that has always been knocking on the door of the monied elite in the Premier League. Your predecessor, David Moyes, very nearly had us breaking the so-called 'glass ceiling' on a fairly regular basis – in fact once, he even broke it and we made it into the 'Holy Grail' (not that I would deem finishing 4th in the Premier League to be an amazing achievement, but in today's crazy age of money laden football clubs, getting the opportunity to play against the 'best of the rest' in Europe and all the money that comes with playing in the Champions League, has to be given some level of credence) of the top 4 of the Premier League, and actually qualified for the early stages of the Champions League. (I do wonder how he managed to do it however with players the likes of Pembridge, Kilbane and Bent in the team, but do it he did.) And we are one of only two different teams, outside of the normal candidates to have qualified for the Champions league over the past ten years or so, Spurs being the only other team to have crashed the party in the same period. Since then, however, we have always been knocking on the door of the top end of the Premier League, always there or thereabouts, but never quite breaking through.

I have to say – and please don't be too offended by this – I was mildly underwhelmed with your appointment as our manager, having relegated the team that you had managed in the Premier League previously, although to your credit, you did win the FA Cup with the same team that you got relegated! But, I have to hold my hands up and say that you surprised me throughout your first season in charge.

For the majority of the season, you had us playing some of the most exciting football that we have seen as Everton fans for a long time. Certainly the only time we had got close to it in the recent past was when we had a midfield of Arteta, Pienaar and Osman playing intricate passing patterns and switching positions all over the pitch, with Yakubu firing in the goals to finish off the numerous chances that were created during that 2007 season, I believe it was.

As a result of this new and exciting brand of football, which included: swashbuckling performances week in and week out from our two full-backs, Seamus and Leighton; a solid central midfield partnership with seemingly a great balance between experience and enthusiasm, in Barry and McCarthy; an exciting young prospect whom you had finally given the chance he deserved, in Barkley; and all spearheaded by a rampant Romelu Lukaku, whom at just twenty years old was scaring the bejesus out of defenders all over the country; you achieved the highest points total that Everton have ever accumulated within the Premier League, and you had created an expectation, unrealistic expectation maybe, but still an expectation, amongst us Everton fans that we were going to win every game that we played in, and if not win, we were certainly going to put up a decent fight and make the opposition work damn hard to get any sort of a result out of us.

Things did begin to unravel a bit towards the end of last season however, notably with weak performances against Southampton away and Crystal Palace at home, which ultimately ended our challenge for the Champions League places. Questions were beginning to be asked by the fans like: Why did he leave Barry on the pitch for the entire Southampton match when it was obvious he was knackered from the off; I do like this new brand of football, but sometimes we do hang onto it at the back a bit too much, why don’t we get it forward to Barkley and Lukaku a bit quicker? So questions were already being raised at the end of your first season in charge, but I do believe that after that first season, optimism was the general feeling around Everton Football Club.

Then, this season began, after what can only be described as a shambles of a ‘Pre-season’ including defeats to the likes of those mighty giants of German Football: FC Paderborn, and although I appreciate Pre-season is all about fitness more than anything else, winning football games breeds confidence, and much as your first season ended successfully, in recent Everton terms anyway, with the way it petered out at the end, a successful pre-season would have put to bed the little mutterings of discontent, that were beginning to rumble around Goodison Park.

Fast forward to today and little has happened this season to suggest that last season was anything but a fluke, especially when you consider your previous years experience in the Premier League with Wigan. I believe in fact that a great deal of credit for your first season has to go to your predecessor for the high level of discipline, intensity in training (as divulged in Ossie’s book), and meticulous eye for defending, that carried over into the beginning of that season. This enabled you to implement your style with the rest of the team, and as a result of having that solid base, we won the majority of games that we competed in, with what seemed to be the prefect blend of defensive acumen and attacking flamboyance, led by the two most attacking fullbacks in the game in Seamus and Leighton, and two of the most exciting youngsters in the game, in Barkley and Lukaku.

Today, now that your style has been fully implemented across the team as a whole, everything seems to have fallen apart and what seemed to be creeping in at the end of your first season in charge, whatever it was, has now gripped the team in its entirety, every time that they play. There are no more swashbuckling runs from our fullbacks with our two defensive midfielders seamlessly filling the gaps when they charge forward; there is no more defensive solidarity, with clean sheets being the norm; there is no creativity from the centre of the park, with Ross Barkley being a shadow of the player he was last season; and there is no more Lukaku bullying defenders across the country, instead we have a player, who most of the time seems like he doesn’t even want to be on the pitch. As a result of this, we have a team with no confidence which currently doesn’t look like it could win any of our remaining games between now and the end of the season.

What I want to know, is how in the space of less than a season you have been able to turn a team who have been perennially knocking on the door of the top 4, into a team that is now embroiled in the midst of a relegation battle?, and believe me, that is where we are, in the midst of a relegation battle!! You have turned our team into an embarrassment, whom it seems no longer have the will to win games, but instead seem to want to have the highest possession statistics and highest pass completion rates in the league, regardless of whether that possession or those passes are of any use, or are in areas that will do damage to the opponents that we are up against.

Why is it that you continue to play with a formation where we have three, yes three, defensive midfielders in all games? It would seem that this is because you are covering for the fact that Gareth Barry no longer has the legs to play as the defensive foil to James McCarthy’s youthful exuberance on his own, but needs another player to cover for him as well. Gareth Barry was a revelation at the beginning of last season, but now, and every fan can see this, so we do wonder why you cannot see it? He simply doesn’t have the legs to play every game. Would it therefore not be a sensible idea to just drop Gareth Barry and play another midfielder alongside McCarthy who can provide the cover that James McCarthy needs, all on his own. Alternatively, why not temper McCarthy a little and develop him into the defensive mastermind and play Barkley or Gibson alongside him, to give a little bit of creativity to our central midfield area, which has been sorely lacking from the team all season.

Why is it that you have now nullified the attacking threat of our fullbacks, pretty much altogether? Throughout last season, Coleman and Baines (and if not Baines then Oviedo) were the impetus to the majority of our attacks, and defensive balance was provided through McCarthy and Barry covering for them when they charged forward. Why does this no longer happen? Was it that Barry and McCarthy were not coached to do this by you, but actually did it of their own accord? It seemed to be one of the best ways to play attacking football, and one of the reasons that England fell apart at the World Cup was that although they played the same 4-2-3-1 formation that we were playing that season, Gerrard and Henderson did not provide the same cover for Baines when he charged forward, thus nullifying his threat, or, leaving him exposed without cover when he did charge forward. Our attacking fullbacks always had the knowledge that they would be covered when they did charge forward, so for something that worked so well last season, why change it for this season?

Why is it that you continue with central attacking midfielders such as Naismith and Barkley in the wing positions of a 4-2-3-1, or, as the front two of the current inept 4-3-2-1 system that you seem to want to employ. Neither particularly have great pace (especially Naismith) to go round a player and get to the byline to put a cross in for Lukaku, and neither seem to have the understanding that Pienaar has had with Baines in the past and dare I say it, that Mirallas was building with Coleman? Both are good players, I have to say I like Naismith, but unfortunately for him, it was always supposed to be one of either him or Barkley in the central position of the 4-2-3-1, and with the form that Barkley had shown during last season, it was meant to be Barkley’s position to excel in this year, but you just haven’t played him there. As it turns out Naismith at least puts in a fight whatever position you put him in, and he does have talent, albeit with a severe lack of pace, but on merit and form at the moment he deserves to be played in his correct position, but when I think what could have been this season, the fact that Barkley has been wasted, and is now a shadow of his former self, is a travesty !!

Why do you persist in intimating that Kone is now back and ready for action, and ready to add to our team, but then never play him? Part of the reason I suspect that Lukaku has looked poor and disinterested at times is because he is the one player in the team that can probably claim to be tired. He plays every single game, both in Europe and domestically, yet he is only 21 years of age. He played every single game at the start of the season whilst injured, and he could probably do with a break. If Kone is ready and available to add to the team, please play him. You never know he may even offer more than a tired, or even potentially, a fully fit Lukaku!!

Why did you bring Tim Howard straight back into the team when after a shaky start (Krasnodar at home anyone, plus a number of individual games dotted about prior to that game as well) Robles was beginning to look like a solid goalkeeper that would offer a decent level of challenge to our American no 1, and potentially even take the no 1 spot from him altogether. Robles had just kept three clean sheets in a row, something Howard hadn’t done all season, and although there were still some shaky moments, he still kept three clean sheets. To bring Howard straight back into the team is a huge blow to Robles confidence, just when it appeared that he was building up a good level of understanding with our defence, and the return of Howard has not exactly been a success has it?

He has conceded in every single game since his return, and for a number of the goals he has conceded, the blame can be placed squarely on his shoulders. I have to say that over the years he has been a top keeper for us. He has his detractors, but you cannot deny that over the years there have been some outstanding performances from him, and to have kept the most Premier League clean sheets in a season as an Everton goalkeeper, is a record that cannot be taken away from him. At the moment however, again it seems that everybody except you can see that he is not up to the job, and we have a young keeper that was on the up in reserve, who could easily have replaced him, and perhaps turned some of the recent poor results, Leicester at home as a prime example, from a draw into a win.

So, as you can see Roberto there are a number of issues that I have with you and the team at the current point in time. I am certain that some of the blame for recent poor performances has to be laid at the feet of the players, as well as at yourself, but I don’t understand how the same players can go from being so good one season, to being so poor the next. There has to be more to it than the players are just playing badly. Throughout the course of this season you have stated something along the lines of: things will come good in the second half of the season, or things will pick up in the next game, or we lost because things didn’t go our way, well, the problem is, they never do!! We have not picked up in the second half of the season, if anything we have looked worse than at the start of the season. We have not started to play better and I can assure you that it is not just bad luck that has caused us to lose against teams that we should be winning against.

We have only won 6 games all season. That is totally unacceptable for a team that played so well the season before and has the players in it that have the quality that our players have. We have only beaten one team above us in the league all season and that is West Ham. That figure has increased to three teams now, but that is only because Crystal Palace and West Brom have now overtaken us in the league. Last year we beat every team in the league at least once I believe, certainly got a least a minimum of a draw against some of the top sides anyway, but this season we are a pale imitation of last season’s team.


We have qualified for the last 16 of the Europa League, and you have to be given credit for that, however I do not believe that the teams we have played so far have been of a standard that could match the quality of the majority of the Premier League. Perhaps Wolfsburg aside, but it has been noted that they were on a bit of a downer at the start of the season and have improved significantly since, including demolishing the mighty Bayern Munich in a recent game, so I cannot see us taking them apart again as we did in the first half of the Goodison encounter, or playing the perfect away game as we did in Germany. Therefore the progress that we have made in the Europa League should not be given a huge amount of credence, especially given that it seems to have come at the detriment of our form in the Premier League, although given the level of tactical acumen, or lack of it, that you have shown so far this season, I don’t know that being in the Europa League has made that much of a difference to our league form anyway.

I strongly believe that you have now ‘lost the team’. They don’t seem to want to play to win for you any more. They certainly don’t seem to want to play to win for my beloved Everton, and they even seem to have lost the passion to play to win for themselves as well. This therefore seems to me to be an untenable position for you to maintain going forwards. You have produced the worst performance that Everton have ever had in the Premier League at this stage of the season, even worse than Mike Walker and Walter Smith, and those were dark days at Everton I can assure you, with players of a far less calibre than you have access to today. In order that we have some chance of maintaining our Premier League status and also offering a crumb of positiveness to a new manager through the possibility of further progress in the Europa League, please can I respectfully ask that you offer your resignation to the Everton Board immediately. You will maintain a record of having garnered the most amounts of points for Everton in the Premier League era, and although I feel you will not be holding your head up high as you leave Goodison Park, you will still be fairly fondly remembered...

Yours sincerely,

Steve Stobie

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Reader Comments (133)

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Philip Farley
1 Posted 05/03/2015 at 22:30:44
In my opinion we are so bad this season because our manager is clueless under pressure. It's easy to manage when things are going great, I think we lost our way when we lost 4-0 to the shite last season.

We have no pace going forward, we dilly-dally across our back 4 and invite teams on. We have no real passion in the team and we are predictable.

I know who will play, who will go on, and who will come off. I seriously think he's lost the dressing room.

Clarence Yurcan
2 Posted 05/03/2015 at 22:24:47
Regardless of how badly Roberto is doing now, this sudden wistful yearning for the dull and mediocre David Moyes is nauseating. Moyes is average at best, and was perfectly content finishing 8th each year and hearing the press praise him for taking "overachieving" Everton to such heights.

Now, if I am wrong about this, then surely David Moyes' performance managing other clubs would prove me so. Well let's see, he will go down likely as the most disastrous managerial appointment in Manchester United history; taking a previously swashbuckling attacking unit and having them play conservative, stilted football, all the while clutching his binder titled "set pieces." Now at Real Sociedad, he has managed 18 games, with 5 wins. Amazing stuff.

For those with short memories or looking to create revisionist history, let's remember after a superb first year managing Everton, leading the club to a 7th place finish, Moyesy horribly regressed his second season, finishing 17th. Sound familiar?

Roberto should be sacked perhaps, but that has no bearing on the performance of David Moyes as manager, which was average. Anyone pining for the dour, depressing dross-filled Davey is someone who clearly has no interest in seeing Everton ever win a trophy of any kind.

Andy Parsons
3 Posted 05/03/2015 at 22:55:37
The comparison with Moyes is interesting given that in his second full season as manager we finished one position above the relegation zone. But it was Martinez who took us within a pinch of finishing in the top four last season. Something that Moyes did manage, yes, but in a year when the PL was particularly weak if you look at the point totals that year.

I suspect many Everton fans who didn't want Martinez to be appointed in the first place are claiming vindication at our current plight. But the answers are far from simple. In fact, if I cast my mind back to the summer and our lack of activity in the transfer market - in terms of building on what was achieved last season, we did almost nothing. Yes, we reinvested the Fellaini money but that was to bring back one of the three loan signings who had played a massive role in our success. After adding a second on loan and picking up Besic relatively cheap, we did nothing else in terms of adding to the squad. I can recall at the time some of us predicted that we would struggle to build and as it turns out, we've struggled to even maintain our position.

But putting the blame aside for one moment...

I genuinely hope that when Everton take the pitch against Newcastle United in just over a week, fans leave the criticism and abuse at the turnstiles and support every single player wearing the shirt. Call me old fashioned but with a full Goodison getting behind every single player we can win that game and push ourselves towards safety.

Then maybe we can aim to put things right on the pitch this summer. Once the dust has settled.

Peter Barry
4 Posted 05/03/2015 at 23:01:55
Clarence, yes, they should stop it with the Red Herrings. No-one wants Daft Depressing Davey back so we shouldn't use that as an excuse not to criticise Roberto who on present form is odds on to get us relegated.
Bill Gall
5 Posted 05/03/2015 at 22:42:34
I do not think anyone wants Moyes back at Goodison but I believe people are just comparing what he done with limited funds to what Martinez has done this season with the money he was given that gave what most supporters thought as the strongest squad we have had for years.

Even last season, as supporters we all appreciated the style and play that got us record points, but looking at the statistics that Martinez loves to do, we only scored 6 more goals than Moyes's team a season before and let in 1 goal less. So yes he proved the Moyes cautious approach was not the way to play but he should have looked at the goals against column and realized that defense is an integral part of the game.

It is no use going over all the problems from this season as they have been done to death, but look at why Martinez is devoid of recognizing these problems and is unable to correct them.

An experienced manager should be able to see these problems as they are happening and correct them. This season Martinez can either, not see or is, completely unaware that there are any problems and these are perfectly good reasons for him to be fired or resign..

Paul Hewitt
6 Posted 05/03/2015 at 23:16:18
Clarence, Moyes has never been relegated or given us such shit football... no passion or fight.
Peter McHugh
7 Posted 05/03/2015 at 23:22:48
Disagree entirely with the post. Barry is a scapegoat. Barkley is exempt because of being played out of position. What about the rest of the team? Why does Barkley swan around like he's Matt Le Tisser?

No problem blaming RM for this predicament – ultimately it's his responsibility. But Moyes never had us knocking on the door - got it once because of poor league and massive over a achievement in his first half of season.

Hate this rubbish about great defence too - it was okay but certainly no Chelsea like defence of Man Utd when they had Rio and Visic at their pomp. Under Martinez, we've gone downhill this season, granted... but last season, he improved it – was improvement due to Moyes? The same Moyes who would to plat Coleman and loves Hibbert and Neville in midfield.

Criticize RM - facts say he is seriously underperforming (understatement) as it happens I don't blame him - I'm not using "evidence" just my hunch.

I blame players and think (if he's not sacked which I couldn't argue with) he will prove to be the manger most thought in summer.

I hope he gets time and answers critics positively – Obviously maybe totally wrong but stop please this bollocks talk (which a lot criticise RM for) ie Baines best attacking full back in Europe – you don't even believe that so why say an untruth?

Jim Knightley
8 Posted 05/03/2015 at 23:20:04
Woah Clarence.. that's an incredibly myopic view. Moyes's shit season came in part from a terrible squad, which was not something that afflicts Martinez. Moyes brought about a demonstrable improvement in results – look at the 10 years before he took over, and where we finished (generally in the bottom third, or thereabouts). Under him we became a top seven club, and finished above the 8th you associate him with on 8 occasions, despite a shoestring budget. Don't let facts get in the way of your tirade though.

He was a mess at Man Utd, and lacked a clear plan, but he went there at exactly the wrong time, with a depleted squad left in disarray by a lack of forward thinking from Ferguson, whose final title win was a startling example of overachievement. Van Gaal has replaced Moyes, and spent approaching 𧵎 million in the summer... and I could see him finishing in a very similar position. He has also been free of Champions League football, and has therefore been able to focus solely on the Premier League.

Moyes hasn't set the world alight at Real Sociedad, but he has improved things. It's hard to judge him four months into his tenure, but I'm expecting him to do what he does best: achieve relative success with a decent team.

Martinez has been an overwhelming failure this season. Our dip began at the end of last year, and numerous problems have demonstrated his naive approach. Our pre-season was a joke, and any fan following us closely could have predicted a poor start. He has tried to implement a short passing style which blatantly does not suit the first team, and has brought players into the club who do not suit that style (Lukaku, Besic, McGeady, Lennon, Atsu). We've watched two of the finest young talents in England lose all confidence under his tutelage, and his failed to keep a lid on discontent, and on the dressing room. Eto'o is gone, he has fallen out with Distin, it is open knowledge that the players are not happy with the style, and Mirallas and Lukaku have talked about life after Everton.

He needs to go – no manager who stubbornly implements a style of football which does not suit the players, and buys players who do not suit the style, will be a success at Everton. He has overseen a season of abject failure, saved only be some brilliant Europa League performances. But we are now perched far too close to the relegation zone, and increasingly resemble his Wigan side. We will survive not because of him, but in spite of him.

Andy Crooks
9 Posted 06/03/2015 at 01:04:27
Good post, Jim. Clarence, I think,that with the possible exception of Tony Marsh, no-one was more critical of Moyes than I was (and that was after five years).Would I want him back? No, but if it was him or Martinez, I'd have Moyes any time. In fact, right now I would have any coach in the Football League ahead of him. He will relegate us.
Paul Ward
10 Posted 06/03/2015 at 03:43:20
Andy 9. Absolutely my sentiments. Martinez has no answer to the current problem and if he stays we will be relegated. Our destiny as supporters is in the hand's of Kenwright and we all know he will do everything in his power not to pay out Martinez's contract. I can only see one of 2 things that may save us (1) Hope all the teams around us keep losing. (2) Kenwright chooses to sack Martinez because the price of his shares would plummet and make it the cheaper option for him.
Ron Marr
12 Posted 06/03/2015 at 04:53:11
I think he should concentrate on the league. Play a second team in the Europa League. Maybe:

Howard,Browning, Alcaraz, Distin, Garbett, Besic, Barry, Barkley, Ledson, Naismith, Kone in the Europa.

Robles, Coleman, Jagielka, Stones, Baines, McCarthy,, Gibson, Osman, McGeady (or Lennon), Mirallas, Lukaku in the Premier League

If the players are tired don't start 8-9 players in both games

Terry Murphy
13 Posted 06/03/2015 at 05:54:54
This has been a shite season, no question. But we won't go down (whether that's due to us or others is a question for another day). Moyes got us 17th in his second season and Martinez will be given until Christmas whether we like it or not. Someone will be crowing "I told you so" by then, but hindsight is always easy.

Personally I hope he turns it around over the summer, but the team's morale looks shot at the moment and I'd love to know what's going on in the dressing room. I get the feeling Eto'o was the worst decision he ever made; he seemed to poison the atmosphere and I would love to know what the other senior players made of his presence. But without more information....

Having said all that I find free-kicks that end up with a pass back for Howard to skew into Row Z beyond my abilities to explain.
Darryl Ritchie
14 Posted 06/03/2015 at 06:08:31
It is said, you learn from your mistakes. Right there is the root of the club's dilemma; as far as RM is concerned, he truly believes he hasn't made any mistakes. Everything is progressing as planned. He's hard pressed to explain the season thus far. He's given a lot of reasons and excuses, but he never seems to include himself in them.

Roberto needs to rethink things. The whole team has been sleep walking through this campaign, the manager included. Time to wake up! We are running out of time, if indeed we haven't already.

He needs to read some books on basic football tatics, listen to somebody, anybody and act on the advice given. It's very apparent that he should start to follow ToffeeWeb. There are many articulate, thoughtful articles and posts, to point him in the right direction.

The clock is ticking, Roberto.

Colin Glassar
15 Posted 06/03/2015 at 07:47:32
Some excellent, balanced posts but Terry Murphy #13, reflects my views entirely
Trevor Peers
17 Posted 06/03/2015 at 08:34:18
With the current TW poll consistently running at over 60% for the manager to leave and only under 10% for him to stay I think that statistic put in a nutshell the feeling of the vast majority of fans on TW and probably most Evertonians.

In political terms it's a landslide victory and yet BK must think somehow Roberto will turn this round and the wins will come. Time will tell; even if we manage to survive this season can we expect any change next season in our style of play given the managers dogmatic stance ? Stand by next season for more of the same i.e. another relegation battle.

Ian Brandes
18 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:14:31
An excellent open letter, but he won't read it, and neither will BK and his cronies.

As for relegation, I wish I could be so sure we won't go down.

Sadly our team's body language on the pitch conveys images of despair and defeat.

And the powers that be don't seem to care, or even want to put it right.

Ross Edwards
19 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:17:16
91% of the voters in the TW poll believe that Martinez should go or unsure that he is the right man. That means that over 1400 Evertonians either have no confidence in the manager or are unsure about whether he should continue.

So if those 1400 fans all go to the Newcastle game and demand his sacking if we lose, Kenwright would hear it and be forced to take action.

After all, we did the same with Walter Smith during that fateful Middlesbrough defeat.

Sam Hoare
20 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:15:06
Can't really compare Moyes' tenure and Martinez' as the former took over an ageing, mediocre team teetering on the brink of relegation and Martinez took over a top 7 team full of talent. I'm not longing to have Moyes in any way back but there's no doubt that our current mire lends credence to the 'maybe he wasn't so bad' argument. Certainly his teams had fight and that quality has been absent all season.

Martinez will get another crack at the whip but I have to say that his stubborness that borders on delusion has me pining for a change. It will be hard to forgive the sins of this season but if we get some good players in the Summer, look sharp in pre-season and start next year with a string of good results then i'm sure opinion will swing back once more. Just look at Pardew's roller coaster this season. We are fickle beasts.

Andrew Ellams
21 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:29:44
Terry @ 13, there were plenty of people who saw this season coming before the highs of last season (I wasn't one of them) so maybe they do have the right to say I told you so without the benefit of hindsight. Ask Phil Walling
Chris Gould
22 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:36:12
Where's the TW poll? I don't seem to have access to it. I want to add my name to the 91%. What do the 9% see? It's truly bewildering.
Eugene Kearney
23 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:21:12
I agree with Terry Murphy's post (#13). I hope that "the Eto'o effect" (whatever it was exactly) gets a final dose of antibiotics (presumably they've been treating it with something and trying to shake it off) and we get into gear for the remainder of the season.

It's got to be a confidence problem - and all we need is a win to turn it around. Yeah, RM has to stop being so stubborn and shake things up a bit as so many TWers have suggested in many posts these past few weeks.

I don't think RM should go. Shake off this lethargy, stabilize the ship (maybe even actually win Europa) and a wise buy or two in the summer and.......

Andrew Ellams
24 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:50:39
It's on the home page Chris. 65% say out, 26% maybes 9% to stay. I'm baffled too
Chris Gould
25 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:40:39
To go from the record season's points haul in the Premier League to the worst season's points haul is truly spectacular. A failure of monumental proportions. How he's achieved it with the same set of players is quite a feat.

To get these players to play so badly week after week, devaluing themselves and harming their international prospects... and look like they don't really give a shit. That takes skill.

Laurie Hartley
26 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:48:56

Terry,

I respect your point of view and admire the faith you have that we won't go down this season. I hope you are right but I have even more serious reservations about our ability to stay up than when, after the debacle during November and December of last year, I submitted post 63 on this article by Jay Wood on 4th January this year 

Link

Much has been said about positive and negative momentum over the past few months.  In my post I drew an analogy of us being caught in a current that was running towards a very big waterfall. The thing is when you are in a downward spiral you reach the point of no return.  I think we are very close to that point.  You see in situations like this, the worse it gets - the worse it gets.

I don't know much about football tactics (Phil Salmon put me to the sword on another post recently - good on ya Phil), but I do think I know a little bit about men and their leaders.

Our players look totally demoralised at the moment.  The captain has tried to rally them but they are shot.  They have lost confidence in the gaffer and his staff.

If I am correct in my assessment that the worse it gets, the worse it gets, have a look at the remaining fixtures Link and ask yourself these 3 questions:

How many point will we pick bup in March.
How many points will we pick up in April.
How many points will we pick up in May.

For the board to sit on their hands in the belief that "we won't go down" is a high risk, high stakes strategy.  If they are wrong it will cost them an absolute fortune.

If it was my money I would accept responsibility for putting a square peg in a round hole and pay the manager what he is entitled to under the terms of his contract.  I would then appoint an interim manager on a short term contract - preferably a highly respected ex footballer who knows the premier league and it's teams.  Someone who could pull the squad together for the remaining ten games of the season.  He doesn't have to be the long term solution - just someone who will automatically command the players respect and get them fighting again.

It couldn't make matters any worse than they are at present and it could save our premier league status. 

Chris Gould
27 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:52:05
Thanks Andrew. I guess life would be less interesting if we all saw things the same way. And I guess there's always the possibility that they see something that we don't. I just wish someone would tell me what that is....
Rick Tarleton
28 Posted 06/03/2015 at 10:04:26
I'd take almost anyone over Martinez, but Moyes would be one of the few I wouldn't take.
Trevor Peers
29 Posted 06/03/2015 at 10:00:22
Laurie 26# I like you analogy of ' The Waterfall Effect ' I think it's already in play after witnessing some of Roberto s after match press conference ramblings he's talking nonsense.
Phil Walling
30 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:42:19
An excellent appraisal of all that has gone on since this manager's appointment. Credit to him for last season and wonderment on how it has all blown up in his face.

Comparisons with Moyes, Smith et all have little significance as they were different managers in different circumstances and with different players. What's gone is gone and there is no outcry for anyone's return. Their insertion into the argument by respondees is merely an attempt to cloud over the mess we are in TODAY.

Indeed, what Martinez was able to do last season is hardly relevant. Certainly, such a fall from grace would not be tolerated by ANY OTHER chairman/board in the Prem. But then, BK likes to be different and has great form in the prevarication department.

The hard truth of our present situation is that unless we win THREE of our remaining matches we are likely to be relegated. And, in that failure, chalk up the disgraceful record of the LOWEST NUMBER OF WINS IN EVERTON'S HISTORY SINCE THE FOOTBALL LEAGUE WAS FOUNDED IN 1888.

What worries me is that it may take that calamitous circumstance for the powers that be to realise how misguided was their appointment of Martinez in the first place.

Chris Gould
31 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:55:53
"The Eto'o effect!"
What a load of shit. The signs were there long before Eto'o arrived. He's been gone for weeks and nothing has changed. How poisonous can one man be?!
Another bullshit excuse. Did Eto'o pick the unbalanced teams? Make poor substitutions? Play out of form players? Plan the shitty pre-season? Choose the incompetent, turgid, pedestrian style of play? Maybe he also writes RM's post-match interviews?

Maybe he was the one man prepared to tell Martinez that he was making terrible decisions. Maybe he left because he didn't want to play under someone so clearly incompetent.
Of course it's plausible that he had a negative effect on the dressing room, and the common consensus is that he did, but to suggest that this (alleged) negative effect is still having an impact is bloody ridiculous. The rot had set in long before his arrival and the only man responsible is Martinez.

Ross Edwards
32 Posted 06/03/2015 at 10:33:27
I wonder Chris if Distin, Pienaar and Eto'o were the ones standing up to Martinez if this happened? Because Distin only got a minor injury, (was it nearly 3 months ago now?) and we've hardly seen him mentioned once until yesterday.

It seems to me that if you criticise the manager you get dumped with te very flaky excuse of "Sylvain picked up an injury, he should be back in 2 weeks", than 4 months later be nowhere to be seen.

I wonder that's why we haven't seen Pienaar or Distin back sooner. They are 2 of our most senior, long serving players and if anyone wa going to tell Roberto he's fucking up, it would be one of those two.

Jim Bennings
33 Posted 06/03/2015 at 10:23:05
The reality is its gone beyond saving this season now.

We probably won't win the Europa League lets be honest, it's a matter of time before a side works out how to stop Everton and that's when our run ends.
The wins over Young Boys were entertaining because they were naive defensively (still might have beem interesting had that header bounced in off the bar for 2-0 to them at Goodison though, nerves would have really been tested).
Wolfsburg, twice we rode our luck and they would destroy us if we met again now.

It's gone beyond the personnel at Everton now.
Each week we will hand pick the team, we hear the same crap "ohh we have missed McCarthy" or "play Barkley here or drop Barry" or "why does he keep taking Besic off".

The reality is we have tried it all and none of it has made the slight bit of difference.

We have seen Barkley played in his best position, we have seen Besic work hard and tackle hard but ot much else to offer that's clear now, likewise McCarthy, we will see Barry out of the team for a few games but will the football or results be much different?

I'm afraid it has become too predictable to be able to predict Everton nowadays and no matter who plays you are only going to see one brand of football.

Martinez won't leave before the summer you can guarantee that but one things for sure, this can't be allowed to go on.

Big changes need making in the summer.

P.S

Got my season ticket renewal form today.
Can't really believe the cheek of it can you?

Haven't even bothered reading it.

Chris Gould
34 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:07:56
Ross, perhaps that explains Baines's latest injury?
Tony Abrahams
35 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:00:52
Jim 33, how can anybody possibly be thinking about next season, at the minute? If we stay safe, does anybody seriously want to go and pay to get so aggravated every fortnight, next year?

Thus voting, with feet, would be the only option for change. when Moyes got Everton's lowest ever points tally Phil, did you not think it was calamitous? It never resulted in the sack Phil, and I'm not sure he still had four years left on his contract either.

Jim Bennings
36 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:14:38
I actually submitted to stupidity just now and opened the season ticket form and here are the words from our manager Roberto Martinez.

"We are all really excited about next season and taking the next important steps in our journey together .
Home games and performances are the bedrock of any successful team and the atmosphere you, the fans, generate is something that makes match days at Goodison Park such a unique and memorable experience for us all".

What an absoloute load of poppycock.
Do they actually realise that they are dealing with adult people here not 5 year old's?
I find completely insulting to my intelligence a other fans that have watched Everton Football Club for many years.

Tony Abrahams
37 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:26:03
I hope you have contacted Trade and standards Jim!
Jim Bennings
38 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:29:12
Tony

I might just do that.
I don't actually know how Everton can even send out season ticket forms for next season, expecting fans to purchase and commit so much money for next season when we aren't 100% certain what division we might yet be in.

Jim Bennings
39 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:33:33
How Martinez can even talk about the importance of home form and performances after what they have served up at Goodison this season is amazing, no make that unique and phenomenal.

The man is jargon personified.

Tony Abrahams
40 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:32:59
Complacency Jim, it's the only answer. Imagine if the worst happened? That's why nobody should purchase a season ticket until the day before it's deadline.

Imitate the chairman, during the transfer window, and leave it till the last minute. We have had a good teacher in that department for years!

Ross Edwards
41 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:41:04
Quite possibly Chris. That injury seemed quite sudden.
Phil Walling
42 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:59:02
Tony, your obsession with Moyes knows no bounds ! WTF has Moyes to do with the present situation.

He has gone, gone, gone !

Martinez and Kenwright are the issues.

Patrick Murphy
43 Posted 06/03/2015 at 12:24:34
Stoke City's Bardsley a player who has been around a bit but not what you would call anything special has told the Echo that

Everton boss Roberto Martinez could be the architect of his own downfall. If Everton do get dragged into a relegation battle, then they are not going to get out of it playing the way they do. And that is playing out from the back through their centre-halves. It's a recipe for disaster because, as good as players like Phil Jagielka and John Stones are, Martinez is asking too much of them. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Everton have conceded more goals than anyone else in the Premier League this season by losing possession in their own half.

If players such as Bardsley are aware of Everton's deficiencies how is nobody in control of team affairs at Goodison able to address the situation and make the necessary changes?

Derek Thomas
44 Posted 06/03/2015 at 12:26:58
I have always thought we have had 'convenient injuries" to player 'x' or 'y' when they were struggling for a bit of form.

It would not be too big a leap to say that 'diplomatic injuries' might be extended to cover disciplinary reasons.

Most of it will no doubt all come out down the track, it usually does one way or the other.

Just another nail in the coffin for me.

Nick Entwistle
45 Posted 06/03/2015 at 12:38:40
When Moyes got the lowest total he had completely lost the dressing room, but was always safe and mathematically so with 6 games remaining, at which point the team stopped playing.

I don't know if Martinez has 'lost the dressing room' but if the team are not flogged to death every training session it makes losing, and supporting the manager easier to take.

One of the fears before Martinez took over was that he didn't have the capability to bollock someone when needed. Sin bollocks isn't the way to go, and I just wonder what the hell Big Dunc does in the dressing room because he should be kicking down walls at the ineptitude and lack of passion in the team.

Jim Bennings
46 Posted 06/03/2015 at 12:58:14
Bardsley is 100% correct and good on him for coming out saying it even though we are no concern of his or a threat to his team Stoke (I know, sad isn't it?)

The thing is though Evertonians have known this for the entire season, only Martinez with his possession obsessed philosophy does not know this, or maybe he does but he's just too damn stubborn to give it up and try something different.

A bit like a person with a really bad habit like smoking for example, they might be aware that it's not good but hey, you know what they say about the habits of a lifetime.

This is Martinez and it will never be any different now.

Tony J Williams
47 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:17:13
My season ticket renewal letter went straight into the bin unopened Jim.

It will stay there too. The lower Gwladys has lost one of it's occupants.

Thank you to Row X, it was emotional!!

Chris Gould
48 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:19:24
Martinez is 5/1 with Ladbrokes to be next prem manager sacked. Laudrup is 8/1 favourite to replace him.
Jim Bennings
49 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:32:23
Tony J

There will be many like us this summer I'm afraid.

To be fair the atmosphere just hasn't been the same at Goodison this season, I have hardly felt like I have been in the Gwladys Street this season, it's just not been the roaring bearing of old even for the bigger games under the lights it's been muted.

I reckon you are going to see a return to the early 90's in terms of fans disappearing over the next few months and years if this carries on.
Once fans become disillusioned and bored with what's on offer, it's hard winning them back.
In the early 90's the crowds dropped right off and were brought back only after Royle took over and won the Cup.

Manchester City at Goodison in January 2012 saw a crowd of just over 29,000 so it proves people do vote with their feet here.

Tony Abrahams
50 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:31:04
Phil I think it's your obsession that knows no bounds.
Read what I said again, because I'm going off something similar which happened ten years ago.
I was saying that people voting with there feet, is what will get rid of this manager, not an incompetent chairman who gave him a five year contract after a decent twelve months.
If history repeats itself Martinez will stay, think about it?
If people vote with there feet Martinez will go. It really is that dolly dimple!
Phil Walling
51 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:36:08
Gawd spare us !

Laudrup got ditched by Swansea because his PLAYERS ( led by his successor) said his training regime was too soft and he had become detached from them. Before Kenwright even thinks about him he should have a conversation with Huw Jenkins his Swansea counterpart.

Howard Greene
52 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:34:53
I keep hearing this voice in the back of my head 'Ayee, w'ere doomed Captain Martinez, doomed I tell you'
And I don't have any reply...........
Tony Hill
53 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:47:17
Not Laudrup ever.
Tony McNulty
54 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:47:20
From the penthouse to the shithouse in six months. Now I finally get the brown shoes.
Phil Walling
55 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:45:38
Sorry, Tony, I misread you. My own gut feeling is that we shall avoid relegation and Martinez will stay.

Journalist friends say that BK sees the season as a blip and that Europa has eased the pain. Gates are up on last season with many near-full houses. Martinez is well-liked in the right quarters and to Our Bill that is everything !

The agony will endure.

Tony Abrahams
56 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:43:12
Not sure if he's lost the dressing room, or not, but I am sure that he's got lost himself.
I reckon there could be as many as 10 to 15,000 supporters feeling like Tony J Williams, because going to the game has gone from "an obsession to a chore"!

Honestly thought that Wednesday would have been the final straw, and if Kenwright wasn't sitting at the game, thinking he could have picked a better and more balanced team himself. He would have been the only Evertonian in the crowd who wasn't thinking this way!!!

Phil Walling
57 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:56:26
PS. I kid myself that if I keep saying he'll be staying, Bill will prove me wrong !
Ross Edwards
58 Posted 06/03/2015 at 14:04:39
I'd have Thomas Tuchel. Apparently the next Klopp.
Daniel A Johnson
59 Posted 06/03/2015 at 14:05:43
What gets me is that most managers Wenger, Mourinho, Moyes etc all sit and speak to the coaching staff during the match on the bench.

Martinez just seems to stand isolated in the technical area. He's like a one man band no discussions just standing with a blank stare on his face.

Daniel A Johnson
60 Posted 06/03/2015 at 14:07:45
I would go with Neil lennon, Knows how to get the best out of average resources (see Celtic in champions league).

He' also a niggly mouthy shite, he was always getting rangers backs up. We could do with unleashing Lennon on our meek firt tem lambs and also to ruffle up the fucking red shites

Phil Walling
61 Posted 06/03/2015 at 14:08:26
Daniel, all the Prem managers treat their assistants as 'nodding dogs'. They expect them to become animated when they do and join in their harassment of fourth officials.

They are, almost universally, lapdogs who follow their master from club to club. The few who make it to manager are usually doomed to failure. Just like most managers, really !

Kunal Desai
62 Posted 06/03/2015 at 13:56:52
Good article. Shame you won't get a response from the pathetic people at the club.
Ross Edwards
63 Posted 06/03/2015 at 14:20:54
Maybe Earl could perhaps try and be useful and use his connections to get Klinsmann to replace Martinez? Opens up the opportunity to move into the American market even more and attract more fans to our growing US fan base.

Thoughts?

Patrick Murphy
64 Posted 06/03/2015 at 15:13:43
Ross - It would probably take an all-mighty effort to persuade Klinsman to manage Everton but he would do for me, knows how to organise a team and isn't afraid of big-name players, however, I'm not sure he is that popular with the American supporters.
Ross Edwards
65 Posted 06/03/2015 at 15:18:18
He's around 16 or 18/1 in the betting I think. I think he would consider managing in the PL in the future.
Paul Ellam
66 Posted 06/03/2015 at 14:55:38
Is Vitor Pereira still available?
Maybe we could persuade him to help us out in the summer.
Patrick Murphy
67 Posted 06/03/2015 at 15:21:14
Phil #55 The saddest part of your post is that BK is totally out of touch with the supporters and shows his disregard for the Everton legacy. Our status as a top-flight club is the only true claim to fame that we hold in the modern era, lose that and what are we left with?
Sam Hoare
68 Posted 06/03/2015 at 15:42:21
Frank De Boer would be my next man in I think.
Jon Withey
69 Posted 06/03/2015 at 15:31:15
I'm willing to admit I have no idea who would be a good manager for Everton - and I really didn't when Martinez came in. With the results and football of that first season it seemed he was the perfect fit.

If money were no object....but it is, isn't it ? I don't expect even Mourinho or Ferguson would win us the league with our resources but I also don't think they would have us anywhere near the relegation zone with these players.

For that reason, I don't blame our Chairman for looking at managers punching above their financial weight at smaller clubs - Moyes and Martinez fit that mould.

But this season extrapolated would bring the club to its' knees sooner rather than later and the Chairman must see that.

Martinez is a gamble that hasn't paid off - let's just fold before we lose our shirt !

Even Sam Allardyce would be better than this.

Eric Myles
70 Posted 06/03/2015 at 14:55:43
Clarence #2, many United fans, and media reports, have the same criticisms of LVG as they had of Moyes, the only difference being they are now having some luck and winning ugly.

Currently "long ball United" have only won 1 more game than the same time last season and their home crowds chant "attack, attack, attack" to their manager.

Meanwhile Moyes is currently replicated the feat he performed with us, taking a perrenial relegation side to mid table this season, losing only 5 games of 18 in the process

Jim Bennings
71 Posted 06/03/2015 at 15:53:53
I wonder how Ralf Rangnick would have fared with his "autobahn football" ?

That apparently, given that autobahn is German for motorway, surely meant fast paced football right?

Its a strange one though because prior to that I'd never heard of the guy and have heard little of him since his interviews that were supposed to have "blown away" our Blue Bill.

Patrick Murphy
72 Posted 06/03/2015 at 16:08:18
Jim - Motorway football in the UK would be something akin to what we have witnessed from Everton this season, constant hold-ups, log-jams in the middle lane, and we even have a Kone to boot.

Ian Riley
74 Posted 06/03/2015 at 18:21:01
The chairman has been here before. Mr Moyes had a season low of 35 points (me thinks) and we stayed up. The chairman stood by him and he will this time. Why? Second season syndrome, what the feck does that mean? If we stayed up would you give our manager another season. Renew your season ticket?

My biggest concern has always been this season is the lack of fight. Please name one player who will rally the team, get them fighting for the cause. As a team we have not won the battle in games before playing our style of football. Teams have been let off, we are easy to play against. Do I see a change, no. The manager has his beliefs and like at wigan he sent them down with his beliefs. Not once did wigan finish above fifteenth in the league. His football style is not working in the premiership.

The next ten games are the biggest in the club’s history. The manager is not going to change his methods. Its up to the players to get together and fight. They will not be the first to ignore managers orders!

Brin Williams
75 Posted 06/03/2015 at 19:37:36
Dear Steve Stobie,

I have not read your 'letter' to Martinez.

I am sure you have some excellent points BUT when I looked at the length of your message I completely switched off.

Far too many words. Sorry mate but you are starting to remind me of Martinez - verbal diarrhoea.

Jimmi James
76 Posted 06/03/2015 at 19:46:03
Brin, you should have read it lad, perfect sense although we know bobby wont read it.
just as an extra has anyone read the echo, my God Bobby boy saying we were unlucky and didnt deserve the losses to arsenal and stoke, bleeding ridiculous but typical of the man. Howard Kendall is just as bad in his column tonight, pathetic, any views boys?
Patrick Murphy
77 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:01:41
Ian #74 I believe that 39 points was the lowest tally in the Moyes' era in 2003-04. I fail to see how Moyes escaping the sack in that year helps Martinez to keep his job this year. Kenwright and the club were in a tough situation with relation to finances and remember we had to sell Rooney in the summer of 2004 to keep our heads above water. The financial situation at the club is far better in comparison mainly due to the improved TV deals but that doesn't mean that BK can gamble on Roberto taking us down to the next tier, unfortunately more depends on how the teams below us perform in the next couple of months because I can't see Everton winning two consecutive league games and that in itself will pile the pressure on our weak-hearted weak-minded squad who have for the most part crumbled when the pressure is on no matter what their recent form was beforehand.
Brian Denton
78 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:20:40
We’ve been crap for most of the time I’ve supported Everton (over 50 years.

Arl arses, look at this team and weep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz5O2VfPpIs

Jim Bennings
79 Posted 07/03/2015 at 07:20:11
Second season syndrome only exists with managers who fail to answer the questions that were always going to be asked of him and his team this year.

Did Martinez expect the entire Premier League to just allow Everton to do what they did last season.
Did he not stop to think these sides may have managers that have now worked out how to stop Everton and that stopping us is easy because they know our management team only have one way of playing.?
Second season syndrome exists only when there is naivety,and laziness a lack of willingness to work harder or adapt , and that goes for managers and players suffering this so-called curse.

Ian Riley
80 Posted 07/03/2015 at 08:11:51
Mr Murphy (77) Mr Moyes nearly relegated us and if we had gone down then we would still be in the championship now. The financial consequences then with debt already at the club and loans taken out by our current chairman to buy the club don’t dare thinking about. Yes, the current manager should have gone in December. Our current form over a whole year (march 14-march -15), the club should be down and out. The reason we are not in the bottom three is other teams and nothing else.

Last season was based on the previous years coaching and mentality installed by Mr Moyes. Whatever his faults, he put the club first. If players were not fighting for the club bye, bye. I don’t think we have second season syndrome, we have a manager whom has installed his style of football. Wigan never finished above fifteen with him in charge, and finally championship. The chairman will not listen to the fans, even though the results are shocking.

The chairman missed something with Moyes, more money. The mentality and work ethic installed by him with a few quality players the club could have challenged for champions league places consistently. The club has gone back years, players unhappy, fans unhappy why, because we have a manager who won’t change. He sees a style of football and will live and die by it. The battling mentality comes from the manager and filtered down to the players.

Who do we get? I would have big sam from westham. I think the chairman would hate his honesty but he would install a fighting mentality. Whatever happens, change must come in the summer or this manager will take us down! (Please god let me be wrong on this one.)

Bill Gall
81 Posted 07/03/2015 at 13:50:21
Ian # 80-- It has been explained a number of times on this site that B.K. never took out loans to BUY the club he may have got loans but they were to buy shares in the club to make him the majority shareholder that enabled him to become the "dictator" sorry will rephrase that, to become the chairman of the club. ;
Phil Walling
83 Posted 07/03/2015 at 14:25:05
This afternoon's SSN discussion on the frailties of Everton (led appropriately by Phil Thompson !) determined that if Roberto didn't change tactics soon another kind of change would have to be made. QPR's fate today was said to be a key factor in our future.

What nobody mentioned was that our 㿈M striker has hit the net but SEVEN times in his TWENTY- SIX appearances and this very salient factor is rarely mentioned here, either.

Why have we disregarded it when the shortcomings of Barkley and Howard get flogged to death week in week out ?

Patrick Murphy
84 Posted 07/03/2015 at 14:59:09
I hadn't realised his PL tally was so low, however, our goalscoring from all areas has failed to materialise this season in the league, I always thought that the price we paid for Lukaku was too high but as many believe the club got a massive purchase on HP. Another smoke and mirrors job from the leaders at the club, which may also have led to some disquiet among the playing staff, that's not an excuse for either Lukaku or the team but just another factor that can be included in the team's fortunes this season.
David Barks
85 Posted 07/03/2015 at 14:59:20
Phil,

Lukaku's lack of goals is mentioned constantly, I don't know where you've been. But what is also mentioned, and rightly so, is the fact that strikers depend on service and Lukaku has been starved of service for much of this season.

Barkley gets more blame because providing that service and goal threat is part of his job. But Barkley constantly loses the ball and looks lost when I'm possession. I don't care what striker you have, they depend on quality service. If Sergio Aguero was in our team he'd struggle for goals. Lukaku is asked to play with his back to goal at the halfway line instead of being allowed to run at defenders while off the ball and having through balls sent to him. Those through balls don't come because we have a team with 3 defensive midfielders and an apparent philosophy of slowly passing it side to side or backward, while Lukaku stands isolated up top, with his back to goal, and 3 defenders around him at all times.

Craig Mills
86 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:00:19
Good point Phil, at 28m he should be comfortably double figures at this stage of the season, and let's be honest about it too, he has missed some absolute sitters that no player should be missing. In the last few games alone, the 5yard miss at Chelsea and the 8 attempts against Leicester should have resulted in at least 3 hitting the back of the net and the more I think, the list of sitters is bloody massive!!!
Craig Mills
87 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:06:30
David, I beleive Lukaku should do a lot better with the chances presented too him, I don't think its all about been served it on a plate, and when that gas been the case, he still fluffs his lines more often than he scores
Dave Abrahams
88 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:08:02
David Barks (85), yes you are right Lukaku has had a poor season nobody can deny this but the lack of service is the main reason the lad has scored so few. The manager plays keep ball al over the pitch but does not include the final third of the field, which is a no go area to the team.
Ross Edwards
89 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:17:45
If QPR win against Spurs surely the board will be getting even more shifty. We will be only 3 points from relegation if they win.
Sean Patton
90 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:26:47
By the time of the Newcastle game it could be just goal difference keeping Everton out of the bottom 3.
Mike Childs
91 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:03:46
Only really one thing left to say GOD help our club!
Eugene Ruane
92 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:12:04
OP - beyond ludicrous imo and what an ego.

Here's why..

Ok, either Martinez reads ToffeeWeb or he doesn't - true?

If he does, do you think he skips posts that aren't headed 'an open letter'?

RM: "I'm not reading them, they probably say I'm a hopeless twat"

Mrs Martinez: "I think you should read this one Roberto, it says 'open letter' and it's from....STEVE STOBLE!"

RM: "Oh fuck really...erm...remind me again?"

Mrs M: "He lives in Berkshire, doesn't get to many games AND he's put 'open letter' on his post.

RM: "Oh shite, better read it all then and take whatever advice he's offering"

(three hours later, finishes reading and immediately hands in resignation).

Seriously - some have lost the plot and turned this into repetetiveventingweb (yeah it's fine to get it off your chest, but the SAME fucking thing, day after day after day after fucking day).

We're in deep shite and we ALL know it.

Want to help?

Well there's not a lot you can physically do other than go to the game and get behind the side (difficult though that might be at times).

But what I know is this constant 'he's shit, he's shit, he's shit - we're shit, we're shit, we're shit' can only have a negative effect.

Up to you.

Brent Stephens
93 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:19:21
Yeh, same old negative stuff.

Phil Walling
94 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:15:02
Well. Mr Ruane, if you are so bored with TW, why not initiate a discussion instead of criticising those who do ?

Those of your fans who can ever understand what you go on about - it's usually mocking of us mere mortals rather than anything that directly pertains to EFC - would, no doubt, appreciate your English language skills getting more exposure !

Dave Abrahams
95 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:24:33
Eugene because he doesn't live in Liverpool doesn't mean he doesn't care about Everton and his position with three young kid's and living so far away explains why he can't support the team.

And all this negative posting is just the opposite of"we won't go down" which I have no problem with.

Eugene Ruane
96 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:53:23
Dave Abrahams (95) - "Eugene because he doesn't live in Liverpool doesn't mean he doesn't care about Everton and his position with three young kid's and living so far away explains why he can't support the team"

Fine, I agree, of course he can 'support the team', but as I suggest, right now another (the millionth?) 'you're shite, just go' post is hardly 'support' (or maybe you feel this is helping somehow)

Phil 'Farage' Walling (94) - "Well. Mr Ruane, if you are so bored with TW, why not initiate a discussion instead of criticising those who do ?"

Ha ha ha ha ha - 'Initiate a discussion'?

Are you really suggesting hourly posts (for months) along the lines 'he's shite' constitutes 'instigating discussion'?

To be clear, I've no problem with anyone saying anything they want, but when it's the same thing over and over and over - I do, because it's dumb.

It's funny, over the years, regarding Everton managers and sides, the old (attributed to Einstein but wasn't his) quote of "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" has been popular on TW.

This might now well be attributed to many posters, none more so than the broken record himself, Phil Walling.

Discuss!

Phil Walling
97 Posted 07/03/2015 at 17:50:37
Better to ignore !
Brent Stephens
98 Posted 07/03/2015 at 17:53:27
Mature, Phil.
Dave Abrahams
99 Posted 07/03/2015 at 18:06:24
Eugene,this particular man has only said it once and surely he is just showing his concern, maybe you have done the same in the past.
Eugene Ruane
101 Posted 07/03/2015 at 18:23:18
Dave Abrahams - 'Concern?'

"Can I respectfully ask you to hand in your resignation"

That imo is not concern, it's 'Martinez out!' dressed up in frills (loads of frills).

I don't generally have a problem with Martinez out calls by the way, but right now when we (the club) are in deep shite and players need to be going into games with a feeling of support and solidarity - is it helping?

And I ask you, seriously, how do you think Martinez would/should respond to Steve's 'respectful' request?

RM: "Yeah ok, fair enough Steve, I'm off, good luck for the Newcastle game"

What planet are people living on?

We HAVE played shite, results HAVE been shite, the manager IS responsible, but ffs does anyone (after MONTHS of this 'he's shite, we're shite' stuff) really see any virtue in a tome that is (basically) 'Martinez out'

You say - "Eugene,this particular man has only said it once...."

So what if he's only said it once - he's basically repeating what has been said hundreds of times.

If you opened a thread saying 'I don't like our new shirt design' and it was immediately followed by 10 more threads saying 'I don't like our new shirt design' you'd think 'ffs!'

I believe now is the time to do something that I appreciate isn't easy - to drop all the negativity.

It can't harm us and can only help (if we stay up, during the summer, knock yourself out and I'll join in)

I'm fairly sure that anyone who has an opinion on Martinez has posted it which is fine.

To KEEP repeating it is, for reasons I've stated, is boring, dumb and possibly counter-productive.

As bluekipper as it might sound, now is the time to (ahem) get behind the lads, the team, the manager.

Chris Leyland
102 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:13:33
"Rarara come on Everton ypu can do it. Roberto's a jolly
Good fellow, Roberto's a jolly good fellow, and so say all of us"

Is this positive enough Eugene or do you think it needs more verses?

Dave Abrahams
103 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:21:16
Eugene it's got more vocal on here the last few weeks because it's become apparent that Bobby won't or can't do anything to address the situation the club is in and so the supporters are making more noise (Repeatedly)in the hope that someone at the club. (You know who)will do something about it, or Eugene do you think Bobby will turn it round.
Eugene Ruane
104 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:22:28
Hilarious Chris - Satire for 5 - 7 year olds.

TW has found it's Miranda.

Eugene Ruane
107 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:31:28
Dave, I have no idea if 'Bobby' will turn it round.

And I appreciate the reasons for supporter frustration.

But what seems clear is that he won't be resigning and the club won't be getting rid.

If that IS the case, I see repetitive venting as boring, counter-productive and of no help whatsoever.

My feeling is that anyone with an opinion on 'Bobby' has given it and I see repeating it over and over as pointless.

By the way, I'm more than prepared to listen to any sensible argument that explains how another 10 games-worth of "He's got to go, fuck him off, we're shite!!" is going to help.

We're close to being goosed, we need all the help we can get.

(you either see that or you don't)

Dave Abrahams
108 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:43:54
Fair enough Eugene, I just don't want the next ten games to like the last twelve and when I go to Goodison Park which is always I give full backing to the team, but you have to agree it' s been very hard this season.
Brent Stephens
109 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:56:04
Chris #104 - not long enough and not enough bold.
Andy Crooks
110 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:52:25
Eugene, I think it is the feeling of utter helplessness that is so frustrating. I haven't been able to afford to get over to a game this season which makes that feeling even worse.I believe confidence is shot to bits and that is where supporters can help.

I know that people pay their money and can vent their feelings but I have never seen the point of it.Ross Barkley seems an example of a kid who could just come good with the crowd behind him. He just seems scared at the minute and he really can be something special.

Matt Muzi
111 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:51:13
While I agree with the letter, with points on here that we were in a relegation fight with Moyes and the very, very dark days under Walker & Smith, where every weekend you thought, why am I paying money to watch this & then being in a bad mood for the remainder of the week!!

The biggest criticism of RM I have and the reason I have wanted him out since January is he clearly has no plan B.

A lot of us could see problems with his tactics and the style of play he employs towards the end of last season and I have seen nothing that makes me think he has done anything to try to rectify these problems.

Even if we stay up, which I am praying for, or we win the Europa League, (which I think there's more chance of hair growing on top of my bald head, based on our form this year & the teams left in the competition), I want him out.

Andy Crooks
112 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:16:15
Matt, I saw more of Everton under Walter Smith than I do now. There are, I'm sure all kinds of personal and social reasons why I don't think of them as dark days. The main reason probably is to do with expectation. I expected survival then as a good result. After last season I expected Champions League which is why I am probably so bloody bitter.
Bill Gall
113 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:06:26
Eugene, I agree that you should get behind your team but it sounds like you have never screamed at any of the players when you are at the game when they make stupid mistakes, with comments like get off the pitch you overpaid mercenary you don't deserve to wear the shirt you are wearing, or with more colorful language. People are spontaneous in their reactions, either at the game or in writing into a column, so you are going to get a large amount of people shouting or writing up saying the same thing.

We are all screaming about the performances of certain players and the large amounts they are paid compared to the average supporter and that seems to make it okay to do it. Why is it different than the manager who also is paid large amounts to do his job, and yet as he is failing to do it, we are supposed to support him, knowing quite well than he will never change his philosophy that is not working with the players at his disposal, and the club will not be able to afford to bring in enough players for it to work.

I understand your feelings about the same comments over and over again but that is a great thing living in England and other western countries it is called "Freedom of Speech".

Joe Foster
114 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:40:57
What do you suggest we can do to help Eugene?
Matt Muzi
115 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:30:38
Andy I think we all had high expectations in the summer, added to that the amount of money RM was given, albeit in installments, especially after previous seasons transfer budgets. That added to the financial results & the club significantly lowering the debts, (however I still think they have a long way to go on the financial front).

But I don't remember the Walter Smith era fondly, sorry. I agree my expectations like yours, under Smith was safety, apart from his first season, I think it was, when we signed Materazzi, Bakayoko & Dacourt, but that soon went out the window when we sold Big Dunc to the Geordies & it became apparent that Johnson & Carter had taken out a short term loan to get the new players in, which they had no way of paying. Anyway I digress, looks like we've gone full circle!

Chris Leyland
116 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:40:32
Eugene 104, sorry didn't respond sooner but I feel asleep whilst reading your posts on his thread. I was trying to figure out whether, if I took all the words you've put in bold and held them up to a mirror, it would spell out something profound. Unfortunately it didn't. it was just a series of long-winded waffle.

ps: No-one is actually forcing you to log onto ToffeeWeb and read the comments section you know. So, if you don't want to read postings by supporters stating that they want Martinez out maybe you could take up a new hobby. Mary Whitehouse died several years ago so you could consider taking over for her and complain about all the swearing on TV?

Kevin Tully
117 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:55:12
It's been extremely depressing reading anything about our beloved club lately, so I thought I might try and get some 'Posso waves' (TM. G. McKane) out there for all us Blues.

It's been said that the only thing keeping Bobby in a job is our run in the Europa League, which I tend to agree with.

I was just wondering if there were any straws we could currently grasp at, and surprisingly, there are one or two!

In the 2005/6 season, Middlesbrough reached the final of the UEFA Cup, led by 'Schteve McClaren.' They suffered a woeful League campaign that year, but managed to survive a relegation scrap. They eventually finished in 14th position after amassing 45 points. As we know, he was invited to be England manager the next season.

The next straw comes in the shape of Roy Hodgson. He led his Fulham side to the UEFA Cup Final in 2009/10. They also suffered badly in the League that season, dropping from 7th the previous season, to another relegation threatened 12th position, on 46 points. We all know what happened then, he went on to destroy Liverpool, before being booted out, then eventually on to the England job via West Brom.

So maybe we should all be praying Bobby gets the England job next season - It may mean he has taken us to a European Final, or possibly a glorious trophy! [I'll get me coat...]

Darren Hind
118 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:24:33
Double standards Eugene.

Did you not say the same thing about the last manager on what has to be described as a regular basis ?

You were right of course , The Presbyterian was dull, miserable and difficult to like, his teams did often reflect his persona . . . .but despite your post often being witty (sometimes hilarious) You ridiculed him for years.

I suspect you did t for the same reasons we regularly criticise Martinez. You just needed to get it off your chest

Same madness . . .whether Einstein invented it or not

Patrick Murphy
119 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:01:02
Kevin - unfortunately the two clubs you mention were also relegated within 3 or 4 years of their European exploits,
Dave Brierley
120 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:57:08
Chris (116) You must learn to laugh at/with Eugene.I have a theory that he amuses himself with theatrical meanderings that although, sometimes entertaining, reveal an aspiring playwright frustrated at his failure to write the screenplay for 'Vicious' on ITV, a sitcom starring Derek Jacobi and Ian McKellen as an elderly gay couple living in Covent Garden. (I can just visualise him as Sir Ian Mack)

Although one of the most entertaining posters on here his Everton musings are largely at odds with his pursuit of his true love. The Theatre. Do us all a favour Eugey and write a play.

'

Clive Lewis
121 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:32:25
There's no easy way out.....we will be relugated unless something changes. Although I feel that it is my belief that Roberto should be sacked. I feel it is too late this season. Therefore I plead with Roberto to make us proud again the same way as last season. Please can you try and reverse the changes you have made.

Please admit to the players that you have been wrong and go back to the way you managed last season. Forget the ideal all of stamping your way of management on the team and admit your mistakes and declare a new start. Please make us proud again for the good of the future of Everton football club and your own ambitions.

Eugene Ruane
122 Posted 07/03/2015 at 23:38:41
Dave Abrahams (108) - Fair enough Eugene, I just don't want the next ten games to like the last twelve and when I go to Goodison Park which is always I give full backing to the team, but you have to agree it' s been very hard this season"

Agree completely, very hard.

Bill Gall (113) - don't disagree with anything you say really and understand all the frustrations, but as I say, the position we are in right now (imo) makes repetitive negativity counter-productive.

You add - "I understand your feelings about the same comments over and over again but that is a great thing living in England and other western countries it is called "Freedom of Speech".

That's right, the expression is 'Freedom of Speech' and it is a great thing, but remember the expression isn't 'Freedom to repeat yourself like an insane, angry parrot'

Chris Leyland (116) - "Eugene 104, sorry didn't respond sooner but I feel asleep whilst reading your posts on his thread."

Er...Yeah good one Miranda, as I suggested, satire for tots (if wit was shit you'd be constipated - shooting pains up the arms are funnier etc).

Darren Hind (118) - "Double standards Eugene. Did you not say the same thing about the last manager on what has to be described as a regular basis?"

Darren, I'm relying on you here as someone who can maybe see beyond the black and white that many TW posters appear to see life in.

I'm basically looking for some grey (ie: timing, context) from you and with that in mind...

Did I slag Moyes?

Yes, definitely, 100%.

Did I want Moyes gone?

Yes, definitely, 100%.

But here's the difference (the grey).

Firstly, I never posted a negative word about Moyes for about SEVEN years (by all means check).

Secondly, when there was a possibility we could have got sucked into a relegation battle under Moyes, I didn't post hysterical post after hysterical post shrieking "Fuck him off!!" (again, do all the checking you want.)

However that's not the main thrust of my point

My main point is very simple, that we are currently in a very, very precarious position and it is my belief that - right now - the more negativity aimed at the players, manager and club, the more difficult it makes things on the pitch.

It's that simple.

But listen, by all means, for those who believe that over the next 10 games, posting (hourly) threads to say 'we're shit, Martinez out' is supporting the team or making things easier for them, I say fine - knock yourself out.

Who knows, I could be completely wrong and daily invective aimed at the team/manager, will improve our chances of staying up.

Andy Crooks
124 Posted 08/03/2015 at 00:55:21
Eugene, #101, after a battering at the bookies and seeing QPR look okay it is bizzare how one word in brackets can raise a good laugh. (Ahem) , pure carry on gold.
Eugene Ruane
125 Posted 08/03/2015 at 01:26:40
Andy (124) - add this (below) to the 'ahem' and from a carry on perspective, we are in business.

Link

Laurie Hartley
126 Posted 08/03/2015 at 03:03:43
Sometimes when things are looking glum and nerves are frayed you can do worse than have a bit of a laugh.

Link

Bob Heyward
127 Posted 08/03/2015 at 16:03:35
Terry 13 and Apologist 15: 'Hindsight is always easy', eh? Not for some!

As many on the board now, I predicted 28-points at 28 games as far back as game 19. That's called foresight. I'm just a fan and I have that ability. Yet other posters don't like such views, attempting to disparage and stifle them, no matter how prescient.

Sadly, such 'fans' prefer to apologise for our Manager's gross inadequacy while attempting to censor those that can see the blindly obvious; that Martinez is way out of his depth. Maybe it's because they have no vision.

You see, the best opinions have foresight. It's a hard skill. Indeed, it is so hard, we pay millions to our manager because he's supposed to have it in spades.

You won't find me sneering at true fans of the Club. Just the apologists who get it wrong so very, very often, yet berate those that are continually getting it right through their foresightful view of the car crash that Roberto Martinez is.

ps: Moyes's Season 2 and Martinez's Season 2... Seriously? You're comparing them? Moyes's garbage squad, the result of a decade of poor management versus Martinez's multi-multi-million pound team? What utter, utter tosh.

Dave Abrahams
128 Posted 08/03/2015 at 16:41:51
Bob, yes I remember you predicting that and I advised you to put a bet on that, you would have got good odds for that.

You say you have a gift for foresight, so what do you predict for the rest of the season.

Mike Allison
129 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:29:28
I don't think I've ever agreed with Jim Bennings before, but post #79 is spot on.

Martinez is giving the impression of being a one-trick pony who doesn't understand the need for other tricks, let alone makes any attempt to learn any.

It's a shame, as there are actually lots of good things about him, as last season showed.

Bob Heyward
130 Posted 08/03/2015 at 17:25:13
Dave, I should have bet, but could never bet against Everton. Funnily enough, a lot on here remember that prediction, but they don't want to talk about it - probably because they made public fools of themselves telling me how deluded I was!

Honestly, I think our fortunes are tied up with the bottom three. After the shameful Leicester performance, it is hard to be optimistic on any of the final ten matches. One thing I would say is that if any of he bottom three pick up points, we could be in real trouble.

Some - the same who decried my 28-points at 28 games prediction - insist that we'll never go down due the paucity of the bottom three. That's the same kind of wishful, whistle past the graveyard thinking hat's brought us to where we are now, I.e. relying on other teams to mess up for our success.

Trouble is, as OBVIOUS as it was at game nineteen that we wouldn't be beyond 28-points at game 28, it was also obvious that we needed to change the manager then. Game 19 was during the window, we were in two cups and had 19 games left to change things...a relatively attractive position to attract a manager.

Compare that to now: ten games, most of them relegation 6-pointers, a demotivated team unaccustomed to scrapping for survival, key members of our attack looking at transfers. Not good.

In short, despite many of us sounding the alarm, less mature and foresightful people decided to fiddle while Rome burned. Instead, they forcefully pushed for Martinez to have time, all to save their egos, i.e. to say 'I was right about getting rid of Moyes'. Well, they got there way, gave Martinez the argument of being supported by 'True Evertonians' ( an argument he used in press conferences in late January), and so, here we are, stuck in a totally foreseeable, perillous position.

Which way now? Damned if we do, damned if we don't. The apologists gave their man the excuse of continued 'true' fan support. Now we're betwixt and between; too late to bring in the inspirational manager who could resolve our many issues, e.g. De Boer was on record as being available for Newcastle in January. Similarly, despite it being a great squad, a temporary Royle solution would struggle to do the job in ten games...he could fix defence, but our want-away attack is a different problem altogether.

So where does that leave us. Martinez. It is now too late to change. We just have to hope that the buffoon's management gets us 7-points and that the bottom three fail to generate points. It's Hobson's choice. We'll probably finish in 17th place. That said, I don't see any other option.

The time for change came and went while the apologists gave Martinez succour. Now we're in deep trouble; the same kind of trouble that was totally foreseeable in mid-January.

Dave Abrahams
131 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:13:38
Bob, I honestly think we are going to need more than seven points, I think we might need the forty that will give us the safety that we all crave.
Patrick Murphy
132 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:15:09
The truth of the matter is that despite the events of the Christmas period and since there is little sign of the Board or Bill Kenwright making any changes at the managerial level and even if we continue in a similar vein and fail to progress in the Europa League there will be no change.

The bloke across the park altered his methodology because he was afraid of the sack, Roberto can’t or won’t alter his methods because he knows he has the people who matter backing him and they are responsible if things go pear-shaped.

I fully expect to see the likes of Barkley, Mirallas and perhaps a couple of others turning out for other Premier League clubs next season and we’ll be bringing in players such as Cleverly to try and fill their boots – we couldn’t break the glass-ceiling and it seems to me that we have grown tired of trying to do so, stand by for a couple of fallow years, regardless of whether the current manager keeps his job or not.

Bob Heyward
133 Posted 08/03/2015 at 18:39:58
Dave, 40 points would be great but, and this is honest, post-Leicester, I just do not see us getting to 40-points.

After that Leicester game, no games can be viewed as safe. Pessimistic realism is the order of the day (unlike the Prozaic, wishful thinking views of the apologists).

I'm hoping (for that is where Martinez has led us – to bank on other teams being worse than even our worst) that the bottom three struggle to get above 35-points, I.e. we stay up by default. The games with QPR, Sunderland and Burnley will be crucial (though we'll do well to win two in three of those)
. We will struggle with Newcastle, Southampton, Swansea, Man Utd, Villa, West Ham and Spurs (nick two draws). Anything more is a major bonus.

If one of those bottom teams start winning, we're in trouble. Burnley have a tough run-in, while Leicester are perhaps too far adrift to worry us. The worry is QPR, who seem to have a chance with an decent run-in.

As I have said since December, my worry was that Martinez's buffoonery would lead us to trouble, after which our squad would struggle to cope with the specific mental and physical challenges of a relegation fight. As Leeds and Newcastle fans will tell you; show ponies don't know how to do pit work. I think we're seeing that already with the 'want out' rumblings from many of our key attackers- players who know that relegation will not matter a jot to their bankability or careers. And don't underestimate just how much our peers in the Prem would like to see us down... that'll be another dynamic that will negatively affect our players.


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