As a season ticket holder in the Park End, right next to the away fans, I have watched this season turn into probably the worst since Mike Walker in the mid 90s, all against the background of being laughed at by minions and mutants from such places as Hull, Leicester, Palace, and Stoke. To say the least I’m fed up.

I decided to write something down (possibly the obvious) to describe the major issues as I see them, and more importantly to suggest a plan of action to get us out of this predicament. At the moment we don’t seem to have any solutions to the problem, and without some sort of direction I fear the worst. I’d hope that this or something similar can galvanise the fans and the club towards saving our future.

This may sound somewhat dramatic, but I am certain that our neighbours would not sit idly by and accept quietly the nonsense that we’ve had to put up with this season. I have no desire to set up marches or banner waving hysteria, but I do think that the board, management, and players have serious questions to answer.

Issues:

Under-performing players

Whether it be down to injuries, over-hype, age, dissenting actions, or tactical mismanagement, the vast majority of first team players have clearly failed to consistently perform anywhere near the level required to play for a team expected to challenge on multiple fronts as well as the upper reaches of the Premiership. This is made all the more apparent if you consider that 12 months ago we had just beaten West Ham and were about to go on a run where we won 7 league games in a row (We did lose against Arsenal in the FA Cup). During this run, I went to the game expecting to win. Not hoping, expecting to win, largely due to the consistent quality of our play. The contrast to now is night and day.

At some point during this season Howard, Robles, Baines, Coleman, Distin, Jagielka, Alcaraz, Barry, Barkley, Naismith, McGeady, Mirallas, Atsu, and Lukaku have all been openly criticised for their performances by supporters and the media. Although Robles showed some signs of improving form when given an enforced run in the team, and Naismith’s determined attitude on the pitch shows at least some stomach for the fight, the sheer number of players mentioned is shocking. Whether the criticism is justified or not, it is not without reason and the players are surely aware of it.

Looking in, the team seems to lack leadership on and off the pitch, with no obvious figures to get behind in the mold of Ratcliffe, Watson, and even Stubbs. This has seemingly led to a culture of passing the buck of responsibility and petty squabbling. Much has been made of the Mirallas penalty incident, but this exemplifies how the team are closing ranks in the wrong way. I imagine the majority of fans are tired, frustrated, or aggravated by the weekly procession of “We’re about to turn a corner...” company line that is trotted out by players pre-match on a rotating basis, before watching an uninspiring and insipid performance on the pitch that bares no evidence as to why the comment was made.

The post-match comments are then to the effect of “We’re disappointed, need some luck, and will go away and assess…”, before the whole process starts again before the next fixture. The problem is exacerbated by the speculation and ‘reading between the lines’ comments of certain players eyeing greener pastures, which magically reaches the wider public domain as soon as they go away from the commune of Finch Farm on an international break.

In terms of on pitch performance I think it is naive to think that the players can simply ‘sort it out themselves’ by disregarding instructions from the current regime; there are not many young men who could be so openly and publicly mutinous en mass in their day job and not expect serious repercussions. As such they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

However, the situation is also clearly not helped in talking to the press, as it has often come back to bite the club on its backside and further alienate supporters from the team who are supposed to represent them. I would suggest that for the remaining 10 games of the season there is a complete closing of ranks with a blanket ban on conducting interviews, at the very least for their own self-preservation. Talk has proved cheap so far this season. The team fines kitty, that all clubs have, should be used to pay any FA issued fines between now and the end of the season for not meeting media obligations.

Have the players issue a statement to inform the fans, and then set about sorting out this terrible situation in-house. Some of the most successful teams in the past 20 years have developed a siege mentality in times of need (Ferguson’s United and Mourinho at Chelsea, Madrid, and Inter come to mind), and this has always served them well.

As with all clubs, players come and go. It is only legends that stay forever, and this is ultimately determined by their performances week in and week out. Evertonians need to see effort and acknowledgement that the man in the royal blue shirt knows who and what they are playing for. Nothing else matters.

New England Patriots and current Superbowl winning head coach Bill Belichick has a simple mantra for his players to adhere to: Do your job. It seems basic and obvious, but if every man in a team does what they are instructed to for the good of the team then they can’t be held to account. They may lose, but that is down to other factors on the day. They have done absolutely all they could. The adoption of this attitude for the rest of this dreary and potentially drastic season will surely see the players go some way to winning back a modicum of favour from the clubs fans, and hopefully enough points to secure our safety from this living nightmare.

Underwhelming Management

Roberto Martinez’s appointment was not met with universal acclaim. Many fans were worried by the fact that he had recently, despite his FA Cup success, taken Wigan down into the Championship. Although his surprising achievement in the FA Cup was impressive, where his Wigan team had embarrassed a woeful Everton at Goodison en route to the final, he had done nothing to progress Wigan towards being a solid, reliable, real force in the Premier League.

They were worried that he was a soft touch, media darling who escaped widescale criticism due to his permanent cheery and positive disposition whenever a camera was pointed in his direction... somewhat akin to shooting Bambi. They were worried by a perceived lack of defensive nous and unwillingness to dig in for results which ultimately led to Wigan’s demise.

To his credit, he came in and inspired the team to play some of the most entertaining and enjoyable football seen at Goodison in many years. Victories at home to Arsenal and United gave supporters real hope that the "next level" we were searching for could be achieved under his guidance. However, defeats to both Palace and Southampton in the last 5 games showed signs of a worrying trend of not being able to deal with expectations.

Missing out on the top 4 seems to have had a bigger impact than many considered at the time. Also the decision to extend his contract so early into his tenure seemed a little hasty and premature. Yes, the team had achieved a record points total, but this was in a year where United were unexpectedly floundering badly, Arsenal were hit and miss, and Spurs were in transition after selling Bale and sacking Villas Boas. Ultimately we fell at the final hurdle in terms of Champions League qualification, but the manager received plaudits for our performances which he was happy to accept. Expectations amongst fans were rightly raised.

Unfortunately, the memories of last season’s performances seem a lifetime ago. The opening draw to Leicester was disgruntling, the collapse against Arsenal at home brought a lot of fans back down to earth, and the dismantling by Chelsea was humbling. As the season has progressed, the performances and results have got progressively worse and reached an unacceptable level, leading to the good will that the majority of fans had extended towards Martinez beginning to erode at an alarming rate.

I am sure that he is aware of this; the groaning and unpleasant atmosphere at many of this seasons' home games compared to the positively bouncing atmosphere of his debut season should say it all. What I’m not sure of is whether he acknowledges his part in why the relationship has broken down so rapidly and dramatically. The style of football and results are obviously the main issue for the majority of supporters.

What enflames the current predicament is his insistence on continuing to play the same media game that he did at Wigan, brushing the glaring issues under the carpet with a smile painted on his face. This season we have seen a steady stream of waffling and often incomprehensible excuses for dreadful performances – a continuing attempt to patronisingly teach his footballing philosophy to the perceived unwashed masses through the media as if he is a Christian missionary in tribal Africa – before an acceptance that in the space of three months post-Christmas we’ve gone from aiming for the Champions League places to considering relegation, largely down to a worrying impotence in front of goal.

His watershed moment probably came with his ill-advised and somewhat pompous comment about ‘proper Evertonians’ on the back of the appalling Christmas fixtures performances, the same match-going fans that he will now be desperate to get on side to try and provide his players some sort of unmerited impetus to drag them over the line in the important final league games. Worryingly, he does not seem to truly grasp that a half-decent run in Europe cannot be made at the expense of domestic progression, or at the very least stability. Maybe the shop window of Europe is more attractive to him; he already has a relegation on his CV so another may be an acceptable gamble in order to have a proper run at a European trophy?

What is certain is that there is little use of obtaining a place in the Champions League if we’ll be playing week in, week out in the Championship; this is not Harchester United. The turgid and monotonous displays, especially at home this season, are arguably down to his insistence on playing square pegs in round holes in important attacking positions. Maybe it is down to his inability to change a game before it is too late, relying continually and defiantly on his tactics and favourites whilst he stands impotent on the touch line readying his post-match waffling diatribe?

Maybe it’s his pre-season ‘preparations’ or his ineffectual transfer dealings coming home to roost? Maybe the behind the scenes rumours of player unrest are true, amplified by a former charge being described as "a gift from the football gods” in October before being allowed to unceremoniously leave for Italy in January?

What is near on certain is that if we repeat the form of the last 10 games in the final 10 we will be heading for the abyss, just like Wigan. If the man is to save himself from the ignominy of being hounded out of his privileged position he must set about rescuing what relationship he can with the supporters by showing some humility, accepting that he is responsible for the mess that we find ourselves in, and prove that he’s prepared to sacrifice principles for results with immediate effect.

Nothing about this season has been ‘phenomenal’, so a start towards rebuilding that broken relationship will be to never use that word in an interview again as it now brings up far too many negative connotations for most supporters. Martinez will call on a possession or completed pass statistic when it suits his post match press conference, but two stats that I’m sure he should be uncomfortable with hearing are that Liverpool have picked up more points since Christmas than we have all season and they are currently 23 points better off than us. Maybe this is an unlucky coincidence, but oh what a difference a change of tactics can make.

Notably absent chairman

We’ve all heard the stories about Blue Bill in the Boys pen. We are all also plainly aware that the club is in a state of limbo; it has supposedly been on the market now for years and despite the occasional rumours of foreign interest we are still in the position of Bill Kenwright being chairman of our club. Rightly or wrongly I don’t see that changing anytime soon. The current issue for a lot of supporters is that when we are doing well, Kenwright is forever available to do gushing interviews about the ‘phenomenal’ man he employed to manage our club.

Over the last 6 months it is as if he has taken a vow of silence, although this was also a trait he employed when Moyes was in charge. Regardless of your views on the man, it is plain to see when he is at the game that he is not enjoying the ‘moment’ that Everton are currently in. A chairman should be there to represent the fans as a whole, and now is the time for Kenwright to stand up and be counted.

It comes across as though he is happy for his manager and players to face the press and answer the uncomfortable questions whilst he absolves himself of accountability in the background. I am not asking for weekly interviews, just a simple statement to say that the board is reviewing the performances of the management and playing staff over the next 10 games as performances thus far have been unacceptable.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with putting pressure on these individuals to perform in my view, as if this group can’t be motivated to achieve 12 points from 30 then they are clearly not going to be able to deliver the Champions League qualification that was somewhat foolishly made public as a promise made by the manager when being interviewed for the position.

I’m sure that many people are subject to Key Performance Indicator management in their jobs. If these KPI’s aren’t met then normally a Performance Improvement Plan is put in place to either help the individual to get back on track or justify that he is not up to the job and facilitate dismissal. This is exactly the process Kenwright should be managing as an employer. Now is his opportunity to show supporters and the wider public that he is not prepared to accept woeful underachievement on his watch as a privileged custodian of our club. It is his chance to show that he is not a fair-weather chairman, and that he is prepared to make the tough decisions that are in the best interests of the club regardless of how much admiration he has for the men in question.

Unfortunately for him, if he chooses to carry on impersonating an ostrich with his head in the sand he will inevitably be further caught up in the increasing tidal wave of frustration from supporters towards the club. The rumours are that he is still firmly behind the manager, unlike some of the other directors, and that this is simply ‘second season syndrome’. That creates an impression that failure is excusable, and that in the end we’ll be ‘alright on the night’. Whatever happened to Nil Satis Nisi Optimum? Worst case scenario is that he is at the helm and ultimately responsible for taking his and our beloved club into the abyss of the Championship as he stood by idly and did nothing.

Solution:

  1. Communication is made to the club to state the concerns of the fans regarding the current regime and precarious state of the club.
  2. The players release a statement through the club in which they acknowledge that the performances and results this season have not been good enough, both individually and as a collective. They concede that communication through the press on their part has done nothing other than disappoint supporters further, and as such they will be declining interviews until further notice and taking a hiatus from discussing club matters on social media as a team.

    They state that they will be doing all they can moving forward to improve results and performances in order to secure the clubs place in the top flight and build momentum towards next season. The club back the players on their stance.
  3. The manager holds a press conference alongside the chairman and CEO, stating that this season has seen an unacceptable decline in both results and performances. He acknowledges that he is responsible for the team and as such takes responsibility for what has gone so far. Moving forward he understands that league results and achieving safety are all that matter, and as such his immediate priority is securing this at all costs as quickly as possible. As a result he will be reducing his media availability to the bare minimum, as his time is better served in preparing the team to a better standard. The club support his stance.
  4. The chairman states that he acknowledges the frustration of the fans, and agrees that domestic performances and results have been unacceptable. As such, the management and playing staff will all be evaluated over the rest of the season initially on Performance Improvement Plans. The KPI’s will be an expectation to collect 40 points as a minimum this season, losing no more than 4 games, and winning no less than 3. Should the staff achieve these targets, a guaranteed transfer kitty should be provided irrelevant of final league placing to ensure that the manager and CEO can improve the squad sufficiently so that this situation does not happen again.

    If any of the KPI’s are not met then the manager should be placed on gardening leave with immediate effect subject to performance management. Moving into next season the manager must maintain a win percentage of no less than 40%, otherwise he will be immediately subjected to performance management, until such time as the board are confident that the manager is capable of leading the club without such measures. The manager acknowledges and accepts these targets publicly.
  5. The chairman restates publicly that the club is for sale, names his prices, and declares whom it is being sold through. He also agrees that no caveats are placed on the sale e.g. He is chairman for life, the buyer must finance a new stadium etc
  6. Should the players, manager, or board reject these notions then they be made aware that local and national media will be forwarded all communication, including an open petition from supporters stating their disapproval at the current state of the club. Where possible season ticket numbers and club membership numbers should also be included to show that people who are partially responsible for financing the ongoing operation of the club are not happy. If there is still no adequate response from the club, then formal protests should be considered. This may seem extreme and ugly, but the only way I can see change happening is if we band together rather than existing as a group of individual dissenting voices that can be ignored.

As I mentioned earlier, I’d welcome people's feedback. I’m anticipating a mixture of positive and negative, and certainly won’t be taking any comments to heart, but I am conscious that the talking has gone on too long. The time for action is now, and I hope before the Newcastle game on March 15th there is something in place that shows the club that enough is enough.

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Reader Comments (126)

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Ken Kneale
1 Posted 05/03/2015 at 22:27:01
I doubt all will agree but some very good comments here. How do we really put pressure on the Club to come out and make comment? Again, I hate to say it, but others have also pointed out that our neighbours simply would not have tolerated this situation. Why are we – are we so numbed by the tactics and weekly drivel coming out as this article suggests?

Lack of leadership on the field is obvious – not just the Mirallas penalty incident but the Chelsea game showed it up. Disarray and no single player doing anything about it. Downhill since then. I have formally written to BK. Whether he even opens or reads mail is another matter.

Ross Edwards
2 Posted 05/03/2015 at 23:05:17
Villa, QPR and Burnley are the big ones. DonÂ’t win them, weÂ’re down.
Barry Thompson
3 Posted 05/03/2015 at 23:11:21
I understand your frustration Chris but it will never happen, Looking solely at solution point 4 for example, you canÂ’t treat millionaire managers and international footballers like an under performing sales team being subjected to action plans. pips and smart principles. They hold too much power and when something disturbs their cosseted world they are onto their agentsÂ’ to engineer their next big money move.

You state that "if any of the KPIs are not met then the manager should be placed on gardening leave with immediate effect subject to performance management. Moving into next season the manager must maintain a win percentage of no less than 40%, otherwise he will be immediately subjected to performance management, until such time as the board are confident that the manager is capable of leading the club without such measures."

Well if any of those KPIs that you have stated for the remaining 10 games are not met and Martinez is on gardening leave the club is potentially relegated. Do you think that the likes of Mirallas, Lukaku, Stones, Coleman or McCarthy will be hanging around to repair the damage that has been inflicted during this car crash of a season when we are relegated? I personally donÂ’t think that they will be and there will also be some other club daft enough to give Martinez a job once heÂ’s banked his millions in compensation for producing both EvertonÂ’s best and worst seasons in living memory. Football is a business like no other. ItÂ’s a fucking big trough of ever increasing money where failure can still make you a multi millionaire.

James Kirrane
4 Posted 05/03/2015 at 23:38:40
A very thoughtful and well written article, Chris. It appears that Martinez is no longer the media darling. A couple of quotes from the Telegraph after the Stoke game:

"Even the high priest of hyperbole is running out of positives and Everton are heading inexorably for the iceberg unless Martinez can find a spark to save the clubÂ’s season."

"There has been nothing Â’phenomenalÂ’, Â’outstandingÂ’ or any of the other ultra-positive words Martinez can muster to describe EvertonÂ’s league form in recent weeks. This has been their worst start to a season for 88 years."

Peter Barry
5 Posted 05/03/2015 at 23:54:23
Q: When is it too late to get rid.

A: Now.

Phil Walling
6 Posted 05/03/2015 at 23:51:26
Great work, Chris. But you are looking at the Club in a business-like manner. BK would never stand for that. Mess and muddle covers a multitude of sins and avoids accountability.

The only KPIs that matter are the points in the bag and so far they have been enough to keep us out of the drop zone.

WhatÂ’s to worry about ?

Chern Lee
7 Posted 06/03/2015 at 00:00:28
Phenomenal article!
Andy Crooks
8 Posted 06/03/2015 at 00:59:17
Chris, a really good article, in fact, one of the best I have read on this site for a long time. I wish a copy of it could reach Kenwright. I endorse every word you say.
Paul Smith
9 Posted 06/03/2015 at 01:24:10
I donÂ’t often read the articles (impatient) just the comments. Glad I read this one, full of insight, eloquence and passion. Wish we could send a CIP (club improvement plan) to Kenwright.
Bob Parrington
10 Posted 06/03/2015 at 05:16:21
Chris, Interesting article. Just hadnÂ’t thought about it but, reading what you say, it is a fair question. That is, "Just who is the real LEADER on the pitch?" Nobody! Possibly Macca comes closest as he never stops running but ......

Jags is far from it. Stones it too young. Barkley has had a wayward season to the point of being completely timid and ineffective. To be fair, heÂ’s also too young. Looking at some of the more Â’seasonedÂ’ individuals. ThereÂ’s no one I could pick. Nobody seems to have any confidence.

The only answer I can come up with is that nobody has confidence with the system/style they are being ordered to play.

Phil Sammon
11 Posted 06/03/2015 at 06:19:49
The thing that annoys me most about this whole sorry affair is that Martinez hasnÂ’t admitted or even tried to rectify one single mistake heÂ’s made so far this season. And heÂ’s made hundreds of them.

I would be so much more willing to give him time if he would alter his approach, change the personnel or, at the very least, shoulder some responsibility.

The final straw for me was the Howard situation. He has a decision thrust upon him and Robles comes in, does very well and the team look so much more assured. All he has to do is keep playing the lad. Howard canÂ’t complain and every player would know that the manager isnÂ’t scared of dropping you in favour of a player in form. Instead he completely fucks it up, as he has done with everything else, and tells the current first team they are untouchable...and everyone else might as well go on holiday because his mind is made up.

For me, one of the people who pleaded for him to be given time, itÂ’s now come to a point where I want to see some Â’Martinez OutÂ’ banners around Goodison. ItÂ’s about time he knew that his job is on the line, as up until now he seems blissfully unaware. ItÂ’s also time that we worked the media. I donÂ’t think IÂ’ve read a single article in the mainstream that has seriously discussed Martinez been shown the door. That has to change!

ItÂ’s going to have to be the fans that stand up and change matters here. Everybody else seems content to let this season canter towards disaster.

Kieran Fitzgerald
12 Posted 06/03/2015 at 06:32:58
I honestly think that Martinez doesnÂ’t care. I am starting to think that he has an eye on getting a job n Spain. His whole philosophy and style of play is more suited to the continent and trying to adapt to the PL doesnÂ’t matter. He has a trophy from Wigan on his C.V and is doing very well in the EL with a continental style.

At the moment he is getting very well paid in England and I think he is just building his bank account while waiting for a job in come up in Spain.

If true, and IÂ’m only speculating, he could be in for a surprise as his league form in EnglandÂ’s top division has been abysmal. He may not get any decent offers abroad on this season alone.

Darryl Ritchie
13 Posted 06/03/2015 at 06:50:05
I keep waiting for the " vote of confidence from the chairman " kiss of death, but I also realize that will probably not happen, not this season at least. The normally bombastic Kenwright has been mute for weeks !
Graham Mockford
14 Posted 06/03/2015 at 06:55:08
Chris,

All this needs is the accompanying PowerPoint presentation and you are complete. However you fall into the trap of most middle management, you make it far too complicated. Let me see if I can refine your Â’action planÂ’.

1. Sack Martinez

2. Get someone good.

Chris Gould
15 Posted 06/03/2015 at 07:30:54
Chris, excellent article, but what a lot of trouble when BK could simply sack the useless fool and bring in a competent manager. It would save all of the complex KPI fiddly stuff.
Graham, nailed it.
Alistair Strachan
16 Posted 06/03/2015 at 07:53:07
Well written article, Chris.
Your mention of the leadership qualities shown by e.g. a Stubbs raises an issue I have mentioned to a few folk this season...when Martinez came to Goodison although there were simultaneously wholesale changes to the coaching staff, primarliy due to Moyes taking so many with him to Old Trafford, there still remained a number of experienced club stalwarts such as Stubbs. Was the departure of Stubbs to Hibs related to the deterioration of our defensive stabillity? It would be difficult to imagine that the loss of such an experienced former defender wouldnÂ’t have had some impact?
Colin Glassar
17 Posted 06/03/2015 at 07:54:16
KPiIÂ’s? What is this, some management meeting in Asda? This is football, not some accountants get together. It doesnÂ’t work like that.
Tony Hill
18 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:07:42
Our best hope, and MartinezÂ’s best and only hope, is that he manages to use the break until Kiev or, more relevantly, until Newcastle to engineer a fundamental turnaround in the playersÂ’ commitment to the club and to him. It would be nice, of course, if the players also decided to take matters in hand.

It was what was supposed to happen after they all buggered off to Qatar following the WBA debacle.

I donÂ’t think any turnaround will happen though because it is all too late. Martinez wonÂ’t be sacked this season (I agree with those who think it is also too late to change manager) and we just have to stagger over the line ahead of 3 other teams, if we can. ThatÂ’s the realistic extent of our strategy and everything else has to wait until summer.

Bleak but true.

Rick Tarleton
19 Posted 06/03/2015 at 09:53:56
Funnily enough, although I would have dropped him months ago, IÂ’d have expected Gareth Barry to be a leader. His age, experience, knowledge of a big club and international experience ought to make for a man to take control. Jagielka and Baines are both simply too quiet and too nice . McCarthy strikes me as an excellent team player, but not a leader of men.
ThereÂ’s no sign of a Bobby Collins, Tony Kay, Brian Labone , Dave Watson etc amongst the present crew. I donÂ’t see who amongst this lot whoÂ’ll inform Martinez that heÂ’s got it wrong.
Anything that relies on Blue Bill to improve the situation is doomed to fail, heÂ’s a charlatan, an actor and glories in his seat in the DirectorsÂ’ Box, without having the guts to either sell or carry out his responsibilities to the club.
Dave Abrahams
20 Posted 06/03/2015 at 10:06:23
Your article shows, like thousands of us Blues, how much you care about the club, and youÂ’ve obviously put a few hours putting this together but at the end of the day Kenwright will decide where we go from here.

Ironic really because he knows next to nothing about football and I know this from meeting him just once for ten minutes.

Michael Polley
21 Posted 06/03/2015 at 10:33:28
A very well written article, but I also think it is wishful thinking.

Nothing will change, and I suspect RM will still be manager next season (if we stay up !!)

There is so much wrong with the team, itÂ’s probably too much to sort out before the end of the season.

The summer will be a time of reflection, rebuilding, and changes in both personnel and Â’ so calledÂ’ management philosophiesÂ’ - it needs to be.

I suspect if we start next season like this one Rm will be gone within 6 games.However, if he shows no willingness to admit responsibility for this seasonÂ’s mess he needs to go this summer.

Dave Abrahams
22 Posted 06/03/2015 at 10:56:52
Michael (21) ItÂ’s the consequences of the mess he will leave behind that I worry about, just look at the mess Glasgow Rangers are in that could be us in a few years.
Ciaran Duff
23 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:03:05
My solution would be for the team and manager to acknowledge that our performance and position in the league are unacceptable. From now on EVERY game has to be treated and played like an FA Cup final. DonÂ’t care who is playing, who the opponents are or how many games we have played. We need to play each game as if our life depends on it (which it does).
Patrick Murphy
24 Posted 06/03/2015 at 11:30:58
IÂ’d agree with you Ciaran if we had a better record in FA Cup finals, but I suppose if we replicate our Cup Final form weÂ’ll win 3 and draw a couple of PL games that might be enough to see us home and dry.
Mick Wrende
25 Posted 06/03/2015 at 14:02:41
I do wonder after our last 3 games whether we will get even another point this season. To need an own goal 2 minutes from time to draw at home with the bottom club sums us up. And for Bradford to have beaten more premiership clubs than us this season is laughable.
This is a great article but is actually stating exactly what 99% of Evertonians know already - that Martinez is not capable of leading this great club. He should never have been appointed having a relegation on his cv. We deserved better than that. To me his biggest mistake was spending our whole transfer kitty on a lazy lump of a striker and apart from Besic who he doesnÂ’t seem to like, just bringing in old men who are just playing out the remainder of their careers.
Combined with that we have a totally lack lustre chairman who has no respect for the club. Our only hope is that he likes the adulation so wonÂ’t want us in the championship. These are bad days indeed with nothing hopeful on the horizon.
Tim Michael
26 Posted 06/03/2015 at 15:46:32
From one season ticket holder to another I fully understand your frustration over the style of play and lack of results. Also it can be no fun sat in close proximity to the away section at GP. I was at Soton on that desperate day in December when we basically humiliated ourselves in a football match. For those sat next to the home fans were subject a constant barrage of disdain then when the game finished our players just ran down the tunnel.

BK is neither going to sack RM nor is going to give him a vote of confidence (the death of any manager). HeÂ’s not going to sit with him or hold his hand at a press conference. ItÂ’s just not going to happen. With only 10 games to go, the manager will remain in place. There are many convinced we fall and there many who feel that we survive or climb away. I am one who thinks that relegation could very well happen. However, this is how I think it will pan out.

We will probably survive and it is the nature of how we survive that will determine RMs future. If over the next 10 games he improves the results to the point that we are comfortably clear before say the Utd game then his job is safe. BK will put it down to a blip, ask RM for guarantees then move into a new season. However, should we end up (God forbid) going into May needing points to survive then I think he will go at the end of the season.

DonÂ’t want to hear anymore from the players. Far too late now. Just knock the fixtures off one by one with the mentality of reaching the mathematical point of safety.

Gareth Fieldstead
27 Posted 06/03/2015 at 15:56:55
That would have been harsh on Royle, Mick. My problem with his appointment was the fact that his own philosophy came before the welfare of Wigan. Whilst he cannot be totally to blame for where they are now, the fact he took them down has indirectly led to the strong possibility they will be playing third tier football next season. He takes us down and he f**** us off for his next challenge! Still convincing himself that he is a great manager. As noted above he was a lazy signing, Kenwright took him on, on the back of beating us and City in the cup. My only concern is that we wouldnt be looking for a new coach from a position of strength, certainly not at the moment. Still in the top flight next season with some money to spend is different. Therefore, promote from within if agreeable and look at it again in the summer.
Eric Myles
28 Posted 06/03/2015 at 16:02:02
Your hysterical if you think your Â’solutionÂ’ would not be laghed at by the Club.
Tim Michael
29 Posted 06/03/2015 at 16:19:10
One other point! This the third weekend off the players had off this calendar year so far. Also no international call ups so not word should be spoken about tiredness or playing too many games. ThatÂ’s absolute nonsense!
Brian Harrison
30 Posted 06/03/2015 at 16:31:22
You would think with 6 of the ten games left being at home that would give us an advantage. Problem is our home form is nearly as bad as our away form.
I cant listen to the charlatans interviews after the match as that annoys me as much as the tepid performances. I have never heard another manager speak for so long and say so little thatÂ’s meaningful.
I hope and pray that we get enough points to avoid relegation. I have bought my ticket for the Europa game against Kiev, but I couldnt care what the result is what a sad indictment of what this charlatan has reduced us too. I have been going to Goodison for over 60 years had a season ticket for about 45 of those years and I cant think of a time when I have been less interested in watching Everton play.
Tim Michael
31 Posted 06/03/2015 at 16:46:33
ItÂ’s a valid point Brian #30. IÂ’ve been watching Everton for 47 years and never have I felt so disinterested in watching the Blues. This season has blunted the enthusiasm. I too have bought my ticket for Kiev but I know in the back of my mind that I will be thinking of the Newcastle game. ItÂ’s absolutely devoid of any positive aspects.
Denis Richardson
32 Posted 06/03/2015 at 16:48:46
I think weÂ’ll be ok re relegation (not that IÂ’m not worried mind). I have a feeling weÂ’ll get something against Newcastle and I cannot imagine us losing at home to the likes of Burnlely or Sunderland. The fact that weÂ’re even talking about relegation when we only need half a dozen or so points from 10 games really shows how much confidence people have in the manager at this time.

Slightly off topic but I game across another statistic/fact yesterday that really shocked me. Only Leicester City in the whole division have managed fewer clean sheets than us! WeÂ’ve only kept 5 clean sheets out of 28 league games games so far!

How can that possibly be when we have 4 international defenders at the back and play EVERY game with at least 2 CDMs?? At least 7 players start evey game whos job it is to keep the ball out of the net and yet we continuously fail - and still 1 in 10 fans think heÂ’s the right guy and another 3 in 10 are undecided!!

People need to wake up fast, asking for this guy to be sacked is not a knee jerk reaction. His tactics are simply garbage and will never work at Everton.

(Ironically 3 of those pathetic 5 clean sheets were the run we had with Robles in goal.....yet Howard is his No.1!)

Brian Harrison
33 Posted 06/03/2015 at 16:54:35
Tim I know that we have been closer to relegation the Coventry and Wimbledon games, in fact at 2 down to Wimbledon it looked a certainty that we would go down. But that day it seemed as if the fans wouldnÂ’t accept the inevitable and made so much noise we somehow survived. I just hope that the same refusal to accept that we are going down will enthuse the fans to create the atmosphere to try and turn things round.
Denis Richardson
34 Posted 06/03/2015 at 17:10:50
Brian, I think the Hans Segers had more to do with it that day than the fans.........
Brian Harrison
35 Posted 06/03/2015 at 17:29:04
Denis yes the Graham Stuart goal was down to Hans Segers. But the crowd were unbelievable that day, they just seem to will the lads to victory that day. I am sure you could have given Barry Horne 100 attempts and he would never have found the top corner from 25 yards as he did that day.
Gerard Carey
36 Posted 06/03/2015 at 17:39:05
Just wondering if our over worked, tired legged poor players are off to sunnier climes for some warm weather training and bonding sessions Now that they have a bit of a break for ten days or so. We would not want them to be too tired for the run in now would we!!!!!!!.
Bill Gall
37 Posted 06/03/2015 at 17:22:17
To me this is a well written article by a supporter that expresses the feelings of many other supporters . the article gives a number of interesting points on " Underwhelming Management " but every " successful organization " no matter what business they are in comes from leadership at the top, and that is were EvertonÂ’s failure is.

B.K. and his inept board show no leadership qualities at all and he may be successful running theatrical performances but seems at a loss running a large sports enterprise.

Some supporters say we do not want a chairman like Tottenham have but why not ? he is ambitious for the club is aware of a managers failures and doeÂ’s not care what people think about him, unlike our own chairman who wants everyone to love him and be liked. When is our chairman and board going to realize that it is the 35,000-40,000 supporters that they are responsible for and not their own selfish interestÂ’s and at least make a statement as they must be aware of the supporters feelings, try to assure them they are aware of the situation and are taking steps to rectify it. Or if like their manager they do not think there is a major problem say so.

I have worked for the last 25yrs in the mining industry with a couple of companies that struggled at the start but when they replaced the C.E.O. at the top they turned it around and that is why I say to be successful you have to start at the top and with B.K. it is not going to happen

Brent Stephens
38 Posted 06/03/2015 at 18:14:27
Jeez, 9% of those polling on TW think RM is the right man for the job long term! I guess they are reside in the directorÂ’s box and boyÂ’s pen.
Denis Richardson
39 Posted 06/03/2015 at 18:52:15
Brent 35, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek, guess it sometimes doesnÂ’t come across that way...

On the topic I remember watching/reading an interview with one of the Wimbledon players (canÂ’t remember which one) years after, I can remember him saying that him and his team mates where shitting it when they were leading and thought they wouldnÂ’t make it out of GP in one piece that day if we went down. They were quite relieved to have lost that day which is quite funny and ties into your comment about the crowd that day.

Matt Bone
40 Posted 06/03/2015 at 19:12:33
Jeez, 64% of those polling on TW are fickle wanting Martinez out. Wonder how many of those 64% thought he could walk on water last season?
Brent Stephens
41 Posted 06/03/2015 at 19:19:01
Denis, itÂ’s ok, I didnÂ’t have any of your posts in mind when I posted. I was wondering what sort of fans want him in long term, and cheekily made reference to the prawn-cocktail brigade (and, at the other extreme) BillÂ’s BoysÂ’ Pen
Matt Williams
42 Posted 06/03/2015 at 19:11:57
I reckon we need 11 points to be safe, by my info its taken us 16 games to accrue our last 11 points. WeÂ’ve got 10 games left.

How can it be too late when Moyes came in with 9 to go? I want Martinez and his yes men gone now but I donÂ’t see it happening. If BK was gonna pull the trigger heÂ’d surely would have done it since the stoke game as we had a decent break until the next game to let whoever was put in charge have a bit of time.
I would go with big Dunc until the end of the season personally, with either Royle or sheedy assisting. people will say he has no experience and I will say Garry Monk. We need everyone behind then team and I donÂ’t know anyone who wouldnÂ’t get behind Dunc, surely heÂ’d at least put some fire in the bellies because at the minute I donÂ’t get the impression heÂ’s allowed much influence and he appears a bit of a token gesture.

I just want to say I never wanted Martinez but was swayed last year and now I feel a fool for not sticking to my guns. I keep momentarily thinking if we lose heÂ’ll go so maybe its OK to lose, then I realise I love this club and I want us to be a success no matter what I think of the manager.

Karl Jones
43 Posted 06/03/2015 at 19:16:27
The shit hits the fan if QPR get a surprise result and beat Spurs tomorrow. They will be only 3 points behind, and who would have any confidence about going to Loftus road and getting a result after 8 defeats in the last 9 away PL games.

I think weÂ’ll lose at home to Newcastle, especially as it comes after the EL match on Thursday. Villa look to have a lot more fight than we have, as do Burnley, Sunderland, Hull and Leicester.

Anyone who thinks we wont go down, needs to look at the fixtures and Martinez,s inability to turn things around as heÂ’s proved so far this season. I cant see us getting another 10 points this season from the games left.

Phil Walling
44 Posted 06/03/2015 at 19:25:02
Nine points will more than do it in my book and they will be gained with ease. And those nine points will be enough to keep Roberto in his job for the foreseeable future.

LetÂ’s face up to it, with BK in charge we are stuck with him. But, at least we will be in the Prem. How grateful must we be for that ?

Dave Abrahams
45 Posted 06/03/2015 at 19:37:23
Karl(43) I recieved my renewal form for next years season ticket, IÂ’ve informed them that I will be renewing my season ticket before the 1st. of May if we remain in the Premier League, if we are relegated IÂ’ll be reviewing my position.

I hope a lot of people have already done this or are thinking about doing it, it is one way of letting the club know how serious a lot of us think the situation is.

Karl Jones
46 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:08:11
Dave 45, I agree. Everyone should do the same. The silence from the club regarding the situation is disgraceful. Kenwright only comments during the good times, and his lack of leadership during the current situation is disgusting and frightening. If ever a club were sleepwalking towards disaster its Everton.

Personally, IÂ’ve had enough of subsidising football. Billion pound deals with Sky and still ripping the fans off. IÂ’ve had my ST since 1974 and definitely wont be renewing it next season

Chris Leyland
47 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:17:03
Who are the 221 people who think that Martinez is the right man for the job in the ToffeeWeb poll or is RobertoÂ’s laptop working phenomenally hard? Seriously, though on what basis does anyone actually think that he has demonstrated one single thing this season that makes him the right man to take the club forward?

Patrick Murphy
48 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:19:17
Graeme Jones if I didnÂ’t know better is telling us in the Echo that the Europa League has had more of an affect than we might imagine, but says that he trusts the players 100% to get the required points from the remaining games.

Jones added: “We’ve been committed to doing well in the Europa League and when you are committed to doing well you play strong teams. We have had incredible results, that’s the truth, that we have taken no credit for.

I also wonder if Roberto doesnÂ’t win the European League will he then be fired even if we retain our PL status?

Frank Crewe
49 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:09:58
@Matt Williams

Dunc hasnÂ’t put any fire in LukakuÂ’s belly or any other player for that matter. Personally I think there are too many Everton old boys around the club. Ferguson, Unsworth. I mean what coaching experience does he have to justify him coaching the U21Â’s? Ferguson 1st team development coach. Has anyone seen any "development" this season? We are not developing but getting worse.

Personally I think these old Everton guys, Royle included, were brought in to distract us from all the Wigan deadheads who RM brought with him when he darkened our door. They have the real power and the Everton old boys are just window dressing.

Karl Jones
50 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:23:26
Chris, those 221 people must be eternal optimists based on the following from todays Liverpool Echo: We have failed to score in 9 of the last 14 games. We have kept 1 clean sheet in the last 7 games. When Wigan were relegated 2 years ago they had 30 points from 30 games (We have 28 from 28). The last time we had such a poor points return was 1950. We were relegated 12 months later.
Dick Fearon
51 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:12:28
What worries me about Martinez is not the teams situation but his state of mind.
If he truly believes his own guff it could be that to use an old Aussie expression, Roos are loose in his top paddock.
On the other hand he could just be an old media tart.
Graham Mockford
52 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:20:15
Karl #46

I feel your pain, itÂ’s a shame after over 40 years you are packing it in, and letÂ’s face it youÂ’ve seen some shite in that time.

IÂ’ve got one year on you as far as season tickets go, but I donÂ’t think I could ever give up, although IÂ’ve never been tested I still think IÂ’d go to Championship games.

Mind you my first season I had to take a fold up wooden stool and stand with my uncle in the Gladwys St, these days I have some lounge seats.

DonÂ’t forget itÂ’s your club, the landscape has changed but itÂ’s fans that are the constant,

Where else will you get Latchford vs Coventry, Sharp and Gray vs Munich, Big Duncan vs Liverpool or Timmy smashing the fuck out of the corner flag.

Deep breath, we need proper Evertonians.

Matt Williams
53 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:43:44
Frank Crewe

You argue my point for me. Ferguson appears to me to be a publicity stunt but he was coaching under Moyes.

As you state the Wigan men hold sway so as I said earlier what influence has Dunc been allowed to have in terms of motivating?

The atmosphere is poor at the minute, there in fighting as some say were not proper blues if we want Martinez out so Big Dunc would surely unite the fans and get everyoneÂ’s backing and therefore improve the atmosphere until the end of the season at which point I would try and get Rafa.

Tim Michael
54 Posted 06/03/2015 at 20:55:46
I agree Brian. You almost sense that in the end if it does get tense it will be the fans that will drag the players across the safety line!
James Stewart
55 Posted 06/03/2015 at 21:31:10
@44 Phil where are these 3 wins with ease coming from? We canÂ’t even beat Leicester at home. Burnley game aside I canÂ’t see any others
Tim Michael
56 Posted 06/03/2015 at 21:44:52
Patrick #48

If Martinez doesnÂ’t get enough safety points by the Utd game, I think heÂ’s out of a job whatever happens

Andy Crooks
57 Posted 06/03/2015 at 21:43:42
Phil Walking, I truly hope you are right. The idea, though , that this fraudster will be with us next season is terrifying. Right now I cannot even bear looking at him never mind listening to his cretinous babble. We have a top six squad coached by possibly the worst coach in any division. I would honestly swap him for any coach in any of the four divisions. At worst we would get a tactically inept motivator, and that is better than we have now.
Andy Crooks
58 Posted 06/03/2015 at 21:54:55
Sorry, Phil, forgot your kindle advice for a moment.
Mike Hughes
59 Posted 06/03/2015 at 21:59:40
If anyone thinks Burnley or QPR will be a walk in the park, think again. Both of them are showing more fight than we are. Think of it from their point-of-view. WE are an easy game in their run-in. Frightening.
Ernie Baywood
60 Posted 06/03/2015 at 21:53:16
In a business context, Martinez and the players arenÂ’t really employees. They are suppliers (ie other businesses).

If Everton arenÂ’t around then theyÂ’ll simply move onto supplying to another business. Though they may find greater competition in doing so which will drive down their price.

So if you are a business with a group of exclusive suppliers how do you get value out of them?

In business the answer is carrot and stick. In football you can only really use the carrot (the stick has no worth - they can just move on and you lose on transfer fees).

The carrot is to convince someone that they are partnering in your growth. You grow, they grow. You improve, they improve.

No-one would think that about our club. We manage ourselves terribly, we donÂ’t invest in our future, we donÂ’t even seem to give a shit about stemming our decline.

Until that changes, the only players we will get are commodity players. Plying their trade for a wage until itÂ’s time to be sold. You canÂ’t blame them, thereÂ’s nothing else for them to aim for at Everton. If they wanted to be part of something special then theyÂ’d go elsewhere.

Roberto and Bill will simply hold onto their jobs as long as they can. After all, Bill has other areas of interest where he can add value. Why should he suffer such expectation in his hobby?

Tony Hill
61 Posted 06/03/2015 at 22:27:50
Mike 59, I agree. We canÂ’t look at these remaining fixtures as though we were in the form of last year. WeÂ’re shite and our morale is rock bottom; if I were supporting an opponent of Everton at the moment I would expect a win or at least think I stood a better than even chance.
Andy Crooks
62 Posted 07/03/2015 at 01:13:06
Exactly, Tony. We are at present the worst team in the division. We are also the team with the lowest morale.We are the team lowest in confidence. We are the team with a top six squad. We are the team with the the worst coach in the history of Everton.
Michael Penley
63 Posted 07/03/2015 at 01:58:25
IÂ’ve seen some arguments claiming that the manager shouldnÂ’t take all the responsibility for a teamÂ’s results. That is correct, but only when a team is managed in the normal way. Martinez doesnÂ’t do that - he doesnÂ’t seem to think heÂ’s part of a managerial team.

He stands out there on the sideline like heÂ’s the main show, constantly shouting commands to the players and reacting to every event on the pitch in a dramatic way. Compare with managers who actually communicate with their assistants during the match. I canÂ’t see him working with or taking advice from anyone, itÂ’s his ideas that are how we do things and thatÂ’s final.

What I get from this is that itÂ’s not the fans putting the responsibility on his shoulders, itÂ’s Roberto. ItÂ’s pretty clear he thinks heÂ’s the prime mover, the director and producer. I think the players feel that itÂ’s more about him than them, and their performances reflect that. He feels that the game is a big theatre show, and heÂ’s in charge of it all.

Mo Guindi
64 Posted 07/03/2015 at 06:11:31
We need to decide as supporters what WE want to do about the current situation. Do we really want Martinez out now? Do we put it down to second season syndrome and hope somehow we avoid relegation and just maybe have a chance of winning the Europa League (hence CL next season - which he promised Billy)?

Much has been spoken about the impotence of the supporters to influence the ChaimanÂ’s actions but I personally witnessed and participated in fan power that rid us of a Chairman in the 90s. Therefore if we want the simple matter of removing this manager then it really is quite easily done. Follow these steps:

1) online petition to have him sacked (ratchet up the pressure ).

2) get supporters in the press to question his continued presence and have some former players get in the mix.

3) start chanting for his head and unfurl banners at home and away games.

4) donÂ’t turn up to matches

We could have him out in 2 weeks. Question is how badly does everyone want this to happen and when?

3

Dave Long
65 Posted 07/03/2015 at 06:33:24
Brian 33, my last game was the Wimbledon game and I can confirm the noise was amazing. The crowd were bouncing before the game, so much that I ran from the toilets doing my flies up thinking the game had started. It was 2.45. IÂ’m in japan now hoping we can turn it around....for my Everton shirt wearing kids sakes.
Paul Smith
67 Posted 07/03/2015 at 09:05:30
Brent, I would rather be fickle and watch my team at the Emirates, Old Trafford and alike, rather than being staunch and travelling to f..k knows where in the Championship.
Phil Walling
68 Posted 07/03/2015 at 09:59:11
My mood as been lightened considerably by the sight of three daily commentators NOT including Everton in their focus on Â’the relegation packÂ’ this morning.

Their Â’clubs in danger leagueÂ’ extends only as far as Hull City who have one less point and an all-important inferior goal difference to our own worthies -the perceived wisdom being that no more than 35 points will required to survive this year.

That outcome does, of course, reduce EvertonÂ’s task to obtaining less that a point a game from the remaining fixtures and even a pessimist like me sees us well able to meet that challenge.

Where that leaves us- and Roberto - in the longer term is altogether another matter but unless our team becomes TOTALLY impotent it does look as though we can relax a little about the league in which we will be competing next season !

Trevor Peers
69 Posted 07/03/2015 at 10:34:57
Phil putting your faith in football commentators might be misplaced but I think we need something to lift the gloom and give us some much needed hope. It may be clutching at straws but lets face it weÂ’re getting desperate COYB.
Dave Abrahams
70 Posted 07/03/2015 at 10:44:25
Phil, donÂ’t stop worrying, if a thousand commentators do not include Everton in their list to go down they, more than likely, have not been watching the Blues, we have, and we know how poor we have been playing.

We can escape the drop but only if Bobby changes his stubborn ways.

Paul Tran
71 Posted 07/03/2015 at 11:43:59
IÂ’m with Phil on this one. I think weÂ’ll stay up and have backed us to do so. This is no endorsement of the manager and playersÂ’ performance, itÂ’s a hard-headed look at the teams around and below us.

The real issues are the disgrace that weÂ’re in this position in the first place and who will replace Martinez when the inevitable happens in the summer or early into the season. Please let it be a coach that knows about organising, passing, shooting and pace rather than a Mr Shouty-Sweary Percentages. Remember that we really are a big club that wants to be better than poor little 6th to 8th Everton, whinging about money. DonÂ’t let one shit season under Martinez alter this.

If heÂ’s still here in the summer, it will be illuminating to see how much of the Sky millions heÂ’s given to spend. That will be the time to place your bets on the first manager sacked market.

On the other hand, there is the possibility that he will spend the summer reflecting on his errors, putting together a good pre-season, mending fences and getting the players on board........no, me neither!

Linda Morrison
72 Posted 07/03/2015 at 11:49:47
Phil look at the table, if Hull and Sunderland win their next games and EFC lose we will be just above the bottom 3.

The manager should have been sacked after the Xmas fiasco. My concern is that he will not change the style he plays and as a result we are in danger of slipping into the championship very easily. This season has been awful and he seems to be unable or unwilling to see what is happening.

It would be best if Everton lose on Thursday and perhaps then Roberto will concentrate on the need to stay up. If anything they are worse now than they were at the beginning of the season

I know what people say about BK but IÂ’ll be surprised if we donÂ’t have Joe Royle in charge until season end if we lose at Newcastle.

Dave Abrahams
73 Posted 07/03/2015 at 12:16:16
Paul, good on you, I hope your bet comes up, If Bobby stays I donÂ’t think he can change his style of play.

Linda IÂ’m hoping we lose on Thursday even though IÂ’m going to the game, the longer we stay in this competition the more likely we are to go down sad but true.

Linda Morrison
74 Posted 07/03/2015 at 12:44:56
Dave I admire you and people like my friend Ian I canÂ’t bear to watch the team at the moment as they are so clueless

LetÂ’s hope we are still seeing them against the big boys next season!

Phil Walling
75 Posted 07/03/2015 at 13:06:59
Linda, I do recognise the danger but take consolation wherever I can find it !

Like everyone says, Bobby does seem intransigent and totally unable to motivate his players to perform more effectively. But there is no doubt he knows heÂ’s in the shite purely by how stressed he looks and weight and hair loss thatÂ’s occurring. The man looks ill.

Perhaps he just doesnÂ’t know what to do about it and might be longing for the axe to fall ?

Andrew Cunningham
76 Posted 07/03/2015 at 13:24:24
Linda , Without being too picky. We play Newcastle at home and as sure as hell we will spank them.
Max Fine
77 Posted 07/03/2015 at 12:52:11
Whatever the cause of our horrific league form and whatever I think of Martinez and his tactics, I for one will be cheering for the blues on Thursday and will be gutted if we lose. Sounds like some here will revel in it.

Unfortunately I lack the crystal ball that many seem to have, sensationally predicting relegation and obscurity if we have the audacity to stay in Europe a moment longer.

Relegation is a possibility, not a likelihood, and most Evertonians I chat to on match days and most neutrals in the press/ at the bookies see us as outside contenders rather than nailed on certainties.
No idea why some on here know differently.

Our league season is over with safety the only goal, but IF we win on Thursday and make it to the quarters, itÂ’ll be our best run in Europe since the 80Â’s. Is there only me excited by this?

Patrick Murphy
78 Posted 07/03/2015 at 13:37:36
Just read Seamus ColemanÂ’s piece in the Echo and he says that winning the EL would mean that Everton would skip all the qualifying stages and enter CL proper. Does anybody know what the actual rules are and what caveats are in place should we by some miracle win the Europa League? I thought that the winners earned the right to play in the play-off round but maybe IÂ’m misinformed.
Jamie Barlow
80 Posted 07/03/2015 at 13:55:38
The winner of the Europa goes straight into the group stages unless the winner of the Champions league finishes outside of the top four of their league. I think.
Dave Abrahams
81 Posted 07/03/2015 at 14:20:21
Max (77), If Everton lose I donÂ’t think any supporter will revel in it, IÂ’m going to the game but will not be disappointed if Everton lose and eventually go out of this cup.

Staying in the league must be the only thing that counts, we cannot afford to take any risks, and staying in this competition is a massive, massive risk.no chances should be taken. I promise you The club is in a very serious position football wise and if we go down it could be the end of the club.I keep going on about this and will continue to do so until, and if we are safe.

Andrew Cunningham
82 Posted 07/03/2015 at 13:47:34
There should be a like button to push on ToffeeWeb letters just like Facebook
Harold Matthews
83 Posted 07/03/2015 at 13:24:58
Martinez has to go NOW. Too many dim-witted players are starting to do their own thing and we no longer have a team. The new boss should not be an in-house individual who is on friendly terms with the squad. This bunch need a no-nonsense iron fist who understands the game and has no respect for reputations.

ItÂ’s not too late. Every day Martinez stays is one day too many. The Burnley boss is better than this guy. So too are the managers of Bournemouth, Brentford, Middlesborough and many other outfits. They donÂ’t have fancy ideas and dreams of grandeur. They play the game the way it should be played and get the best out of what theyÂ’ve got.

One thing is certain. BK hired a dud. Any replacement would be an improvement.

Patrick Murphy
84 Posted 07/03/2015 at 14:56:15
Harold - I didnÂ’t think that you would be so scathing about this manager or the players - but it would be difficult to find too many Evertonians disagreeing with you myself included. Whatever was built in the last decade has disappeared into the ether and now it will be a case of regroup and get back to basics which could take most of next season and hope whoever comes in can find a winning formula.
James Hughes
85 Posted 07/03/2015 at 14:53:56
For me the perfect scenario, We win the Europa, we stay up with a few games to spare. Bill K grows a pair and sack the Spanish Kitchen Porter.

I am not being fickle or disloyal but for me Martinez has shown his lack of man-management ability. That is his role end of story.
I was at Goodison in 1982 when Â’ThemÂ’ put 5 past us and stayed to the end still cheering us on.Last Wednesday I stopped watching at 40 mins gone.

Martinez has made me disinterested in a team that has give me high, lows and grey hairs and have followed loyally for 40 years.
That is a feeling I donÂ’t like, this is my club alongside thousands of others.

I feel like somebody who has just been told the world is round not flat and struggling to take in the information. Mainly because we are watching dire fraudball and it is deeply worrying.

Por favor Roberto - Adios Amigo

Ross Edwards
86 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:08:18
The Europa League winners will go into the group stage of the CL provided that the CL winners finish in the CL places in their league.

E.g, if Real win the CL and finish 2nd, the Europa winners will be in the group stage.

Patrick Murphy
87 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:28:16
Cheers Ross and Jamie, in the unlikely event that our boys win the EL, doubtless some outsider will win the CL, oh the joys of being a Blue.
Ross Edwards
88 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:45:15
Knowing our luck Patrick, Dortmund will win the CL and finish about 8th.
Andrew Ellams
89 Posted 07/03/2015 at 15:51:35
Andrew 76, just like we did to Leicester, Stoke, Hull, WBA and Palace. Nothing is a given with Everton this season
Tony Hill
90 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:29:46
Happy news from Loftus Road and important for us.
Tony Hill
91 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:33:56
Cue goal for QPR.
Dave Abrahams
92 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:37:14
You said it Tony!!!!
James Stewart
93 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:54:03
A lot of talk of if we win the Europa League.... Wake up! Not a snowball in hellÂ’s chance of that.
Dave Abrahams
94 Posted 07/03/2015 at 17:02:13
You were right anyway Tony, it was good news!
Denis Richardson
95 Posted 07/03/2015 at 16:55:46
Ok lads, enough doom and gloom. CisseÂ’s just been banned for 7 games. ItÂ’s obvious the football gods are taking pity on us.

We will get something from the bardodes game and everyone can stop worrying as much.

LetÂ’s try to enjoy this weekend, we guaranteed wonÂ’t lose at least...

Paul Hewitt
96 Posted 07/03/2015 at 17:12:36
Denis@ I wont relax till this season is over and we are safe.
Jerome Shields
98 Posted 07/03/2015 at 18:29:39
We have a team designed to play in Europe, not in the Premier League. The players when they lose the ball should be trying to get it back, and getting it forward to score.

There is nothing nice about the football required, itÂ’s just the blood and guts end of football. The end that Martinez has never taken part in.

The stakes are that the financial loss to the Board and the players is huge. We the fans, while getting upset, lose nothing. The Board and Players deserve what they get. We the fans donÂ’t.

Everton are a Big Club and should never be in the position they are in. The forum has changed.

Who is going to be the next Manager? Whether he is selected now from the Premier League or the Championship, he should have been selected by now to maintain Premier League status.

Europe is irrelevant. If a new Manager is appointed I will start watching Everton again. If not, I will start watching them next season in the Championship. Martinez will be definitely gone by then. He is not a Championship Manager.

Andy Crooks
99 Posted 07/03/2015 at 18:32:24
Harold, your best post yet. I see you as the voice of reason. When Harold says go, Roberto, get to fuck out.
Phil Walling
100 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:02:03
Leaving the Martinez debate until another day, QPRÂ’s defeat has virtually assured that Everton will avoid relegation.

All the bottom three require to get a point a game from their remaining matches if they are to chalk up a paltry 32 points and so far all have failed to do so. Why, anymore than our team should they start now?

For Everton, 6 points gained anyway will, I am sure, see us safe and they may not even need that many.

I shall sleep better tonight !

Phil Walling
101 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:22:48
Meant to add that the bottom three all now show at 1/3 to go down. Everton back up to 25/1. We are safe - barring the shouting !
Dave Abrahams
102 Posted 07/03/2015 at 19:32:43
Phil IÂ’m not even bothering to argue with that just hope you are right.
Nick Page
103 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:36:01
Hope youÂ’re right Phil but I cant see this sorry bunch getting a win. Villa looked positive tonight too, no doubt theyÂ’ll climb away. We look bereft, and I said that after Newcastle away. Piss fucking poor
Philip Yensen
104 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:07:57
All the sit-on-the-fence, "glass half-full" brigade, singing the praises of Martinez, need to wake up. In the Premier League, you need to work hard, have skill, direction from your coach and a board who can see the manager is clueless.

We can’t attract billionaires like lesser clubs or the bigger clubs. If all this is because Kenwright and Co are unable to step into the 21st century, it’s time for them and our Spanish friend to go. We are the Arkwright of the premier League – stuck in the old days.

Daniel Hutchinson
105 Posted 07/03/2015 at 21:10:06

I cannot help but watch this video of last season and it makes me weep. DonÂ’t get me wrong, I want Martinez out like the majority of us. We can blame it on many things but to see a team go from this to nothing this season is bemusing in every single way.

In fact, watching this video, it makes me think that maybe the disappointment of not finishing fourth really did hurt our boys. I am not suggesting it is an excuse, but it is sad to see such a fall in grace.

This week I have become lost as a fan. Lost in who we are, what we are and what we shall become. Disillusioned.

I am struggling to see any way back. I am struggling to see any solution. I donÂ’t want to make this any more depressing than it already is but I wish someone at the club would show this video to the team and ask them why we can not perform like we did last season.

I donÂ’t think we will ever be able to compete in the entertainment our sport has become.

Phil Walling
106 Posted 07/03/2015 at 20:44:33
A bookie friend just told me that Sheffield Utd were the last club to be on offer at 20s against relegation at this stage and then go down. They finished with 38 points and had not been in the last three until the final minutes of the season.

That was in 2007. At least the odds are in our favour against history repeating itself!

Tony Abrahams
107 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:54:05
Think Paul Jewels WIGAN, sent them down Phil? Might be wrong.
Patrick Murphy
108 Posted 07/03/2015 at 22:58:52
Tony #107 No youÂ’re bang on the money and another Everton member of staff who also plied his trade at Wigan was the scorer of the winning goal. None other than David Unsworth.
Dave Abrahams
109 Posted 07/03/2015 at 23:08:01
Was that a penalty Patrick?
Patrick Murphy
110 Posted 07/03/2015 at 23:16:28
Yes it was Dave at the end of the first-half. I wish heÂ’d missed it we may never have seen Roberto at Goodison if he had.
Laurie Hartley
111 Posted 07/03/2015 at 23:51:38
Daniel at 105 - it wanÂ’t just a wonderful dream then. Completely mystifying and heartbreaking.

But hey Phil at 100 has cheered me up. Hope springs eternal.

Bob Heyward
113 Posted 08/03/2015 at 20:38:21
Chris, I admire your sentiment regarding banding together as a group of fans. Unfortunately though, that kind of depends on what the fans Â’supportÂ’.

ItÂ’s obvious that a few, a vocal few, support the manager above all else. Unfortunately, the level of sycophantic support they offer him, even against the most obvious facts, gives that manager succour. ThatÂ’s right. Those few, ludicrous voices allow Martinez to claim he has the support of Â’true EvertoniansÂ’ - and I know El Pied Piper actively uses that line in the press and the boardroom.

Sadly, that group of Martinez fans has really sent us up the river without a paddle. Certainly, there is much at Goodison that we cannot change easily. Martinez is useless - we can do nothing directly about that. The players are messing up - again, little we can do there. But for the fans voice to have been hijacked by a vocal minority, well that is something that we, the true fans of Everton football club, must account for.

Before we start telling he Club how to get itÂ’s house in order, maybe we need to challenge a few of the more prosaic Martinez lovers on here. Only when wharpedly-positive assessments of Martinez are challenged vigorously will Martinez finally face a united front, with no quarter to hide. For as long as some refer to him as a genius who needs time, thatÂ’s how long Martinez will have a platform for his utter BS. As an example, even as late as a day ago, a couple were actively praising his Telegraph article; a work of fiction that truly gave a view of the inside of the bunker.

It is only a shame that we had to get to this low point to reach these conclusions. Action was needed in January, but silence in the face of MartinezÂ’s bullying apologists served to condone the Martinez farce.

Patrick Murphy
114 Posted 08/03/2015 at 21:27:15
Bob - I take it that you mean those fans who have been chosen to be representatives of the club, they may or may not be acolytes of Martinez, but the club has no right to base its policies on such a small number of people regardless of their views on the club, right or wrong. Surely the amount of people voting on TW, should have some bearing on the club, even if they choose to ignore the over-riding mood?
Bob Heyward
115 Posted 08/03/2015 at 21:44:59
Clue in paragraph 2, Patrick. Martinez bases his BS on the Â’true EvertonianÂ’, I.e. those that agree with all he says. Martinez then uses that Â’supportÂ’ to support his BS, e.g. Â’True Evertonians support the positive long term approach IÂ’m bringingÂ’. The enemy within provides this master BS merchant with succour and a demonstrable support.

Yes, a fan survey is important. But Martinez is also adroit at using the wharpedly positive views that we condone by not challenging.

Patrick Murphy
116 Posted 08/03/2015 at 21:53:20
In that case Bob, it would be wise for the majority who support Everton FC above all else to make their feelings clear, how about a spontaneous round of applause at the hour mark - 60 being a figure that will always be known at Goodison due to DixieÂ’s exploits. It wouldnÂ’t be detrimental to the players and the media would want an explanation as to why it had occurred.

The explanation would be simply that Roberto must change or go. Every PL game between now and the end of the season could be used to send a simple message to the board that some fans arenÂ’t completely happy with what we have witnessed this season.

Ernie Baywood
117 Posted 08/03/2015 at 22:02:51
Well we have our lowest points total for 88 years. Not been relegated for 64 years.

Either of those moments might drum home what Roberto is playing with.

Phil Walling
118 Posted 08/03/2015 at 22:16:16
Bob @113. As virtually a lone voice critical of the appointment of Martinez, it amuses me how many claim to have Â’known it all alongÂ’ that Martinez was a Â’jolly promiserÂ’ and rabid philosopher who would, eventually, bring Everton down to WiganÂ’s level.

Thankfully, there is little likelyhood of relegation this season and I suspect that once safety is assured all the wind in the Â’Martinez OutÂ’ lobby will blow itself out. Indeed, it will only need good wins in Europa and against Newcastle to see his adoring crowds return.

At least one thing IÂ’d bet on is that Our Man will not have to do much to clear these columns of his critics!

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
119 Posted 08/03/2015 at 22:37:29
Sorry, Bob Heyward, but you are not going to get away with those divisive misquotes to peddle your one-dimensional characterization of "true Evertonians" on here. The vote on our home page shows that, as on any topic, Evertonians are split in their opinions on Martinez. Do not try to use this site to claim otherwise.
Patrick Murphy
120 Posted 08/03/2015 at 22:33:02
Phil - There is little doubt that your assessment of the man at the helm has indeed been proved correct and those who had high hopes for his regime have been proved wrong. Whether or not Roberto pulls it around is still an open question - I donÂ’t believe he will and havenÂ’t believed he would since sometime before Christmas.

However, if he does somehow replicate the performance levels of some of the games from last season and Everton start winning matches then it would not be such a shock if Evertonians started to alter their views, but I still think even if such events take place, a larger number of Evertonians have severe doubts over his tenure than they did at the beginning of the campaign and 61% of 3500 is quite a high volume of people to be re-convinced of his abilities.

The threat of relegation has been a tool used by some to wake people up to the reality of the last few months, it is not a probability but it has been more a possibility and remains just that, but a few more poor results will make it a stronger possibility and the discord will remain and increase if that happens.

Faith in human nature does not seem to be one of your strong points Phil, but whatever we as a fan-base think or believe is of no importance if the man at the head of the club thinks or believes differently.

John Daley
121 Posted 08/03/2015 at 22:48:13
".....those who feel itÂ’s ok to vigorously support this managerÂ’s utter inadequacy....are not in any way representative of an Everton fan. In short, they must come to understand that they are the enemy within".

Hark at the charisma bereft Jimmy Hoffa there. 

Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of Roberto Martinez’s reign as manager, who the fuck made you Don of the club’s support base? Declaring who can be defined as a ’true’ member of the family and who is nothing more than a dirty rat fuck traitor in the midst? 

These ’apologists’ and ’acolytes’ you spit venom at (for little more than holding an opinion diametrically opposed to your own) don’t need your, or anyone else’s, blessing to be deemed a proper ’boss Blue’. 

Their belief, mistaken or otherwise, that the manager can still turn things round has no real adverse effect on proceedings on the pitch, nor will it hold any sway with the decision makers at the club, despite your pitch fork waving proclamations to the contrary. 

You think someone posting a positive comment about Martinez on an Internet forum would be enough to convince Bill to put the safety back on his broomstick just as he was preparing to put the deadite Martinez out of his misery? 

If postings on ToffeeWeb possessed such persuasive power BK would have put his own head in a vice years ago and cranked that mutha until his eyes popped out. 

Tony McNulty
122 Posted 08/03/2015 at 22:46:41
Phil Walling - you must be a betting man, but have you never heard those wise words of the (great?) Rabbie Burns? He said:

"ThereÂ’s no such uncertainty as a sure thing."

I will continue watching with fear and trembling in my heart until we start playing to our strengths, cease playing endless crab football, and start practising basic tactical ploys for set pieces (both ours and the oppositionÂ’s).

Gavin Johnson
123 Posted 09/03/2015 at 00:27:16
I still maintain that I donÂ’t believe weÂ’ll go down this season, and how much time Martnez has will have much do with Europa results: If we win it then thereÂ’s no question Roberto will be our manager next season, and rightly so. But If we go out next round I think Roberto could be the first manager getting the sack if we have a shaky start next season.
Bob Heyward
124 Posted 09/03/2015 at 02:04:33
@ Michael Kenrick: Your own poll shows only one in ten support for Martinez staying. One in ten. Of the rest, 60-odd percent want him out now, while 30-odd percent arenÂ’t quite sure whether his going immediately would do more harm than good at this point (and that includes me). Hardly a Â’split down the middleÂ’, eh? And letÂ’s not forget, those poll figures are from a site that was always known to be notoriously anti-Moyes, so is a bit of a natural home for the Martinez lover. Â’Split down the middleÂ’? Hilarious...

And as for the Â’divisiveÂ’ Â’true EvertonianÂ’ line, I think youÂ’ll find that was a Martinez line, used in a press conference in January to justify his philosophical intransigence, i.e. Â’true Evertonians support what IÂ’m doingÂ’. It was much commented on and criticised contemporarily. My reference to it in relation to those who sycophantically support the manager, come what may, is therefore justified. My parodying of this phrase as a term for those who stand against Martinez is equally justified.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
125 Posted 09/03/2015 at 14:30:32
Bob Heyward, if you are going to use quotations to back up your spurious claims, at least get them right. I never said 'split down the middle', and Martinez never used the term "true Evertonians". (Look it up!)

Beyond that... what John Daley said. He nailed it.


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