We need to keep hiring a Roberto Martinez

To be honest, the best managers seek to make the best use of the players they have and will adjust their squads as and when money is available to develop a preferred style. What must not get in the way is an unwillingness to adjust what you are doing. If you keep losing games perhaps the style ain't right. Martinez suggests that you cannot over pass. Therein, lies a real barrier for him to be successful.

His obsession with keeping the ball has blunted our confidence, movement, willingness to shoot and has led to rather slow football that does not create panic in opposition defences and blunts, significantly, the passion of the fans. Winning games is the only philosophy required!

1) Who's Roberto Martinez? (fill in to suit)

2) Try Roberto Martinez.

3) Get me Roberto Martinez.

4) I want a Roberto Martinez type.

5) Who's Roberto Martinez.

What we need is the Goldilocks version... Not too Moyes, not too Martinez, but Just Right!

Over the last few years they have opted for mediocre European managers (can anyone even remember Pim Verbeek & Holger Osieck) who have low risk philosophies. A couple of years ago, FFA took a big risk in appointing a local coach (Ange Postecoglou) who publicly stated that he wanted to play attacking football, give youth a chance and that it would take a few years.

There were some difficult times - even though they played some nice football they lost all of their games in WC, a few friendlies after that and their lowest FIFA ranking (102). Still the FFA stuck with him and he stuck with his attacking (4-3-3, possession based, high tempo, quick transition strategy) philosophy. As you know they recently won the AFC Asian Cup but really what impressed was the style in which they did it. Both the football & attitude were great. It didn't rely on individuals (9 different scorers in 6 games and it was attractive.

So, my points? Taking a risk can pay off and maybe we should check and see when Ange Postecoglou's contract is up!

What we want is a young manager from the lower leagues who has been with 2 or 3 clubs, been relatively successful at that level with each of them and plays the style of football we want to see at Goodison.

Percentage football is a sure fire way to achieve little more than your financial standing allows. The next manager needs to be a realist, a pragmatist, and someone who has a vision of evolving us into a top, footballing side with a style to match.

He's out there somewhere isn't he?

I agree with the premise of the OP we want what we thought we were getting with Martinez; someone to implement long term positive change, to play attractive football with us scoring goals and to bring through talented youngsters. Sadly Martinez has looked less and less able to tick any of these three boxes.

I don't think a risky unheard of European manager necessarily has to be the way forward and to be fair to McClaren he has built a young team at Derby that are challenging for promotion, scoring 2 goals per game but also looking relatively organised. We could do worse. But hopefully we could do better as well.

I think De Boer could be a very good candidate and bring a few tasty, good value players from the Eredivisie. Laudrup is the bookies favourite but I'm not sure I approve of him. Benitez would be controversial but very effective I think. Neil Lennon would at least give us some fight. Eddie Howe would be the 'new Moyes' option.

I don't know any more. My confidence is shaken. I suspect Martinez will get another crack unless we really tank the end of the season. Any insiders have any idea what the thinking is at HQ?

I think any manager who has played at one of the top clubs and won some of the games biggest trophies would immediately command respect from the players. That manager would also know what it takes to win and will have a decent network of contacts and managers across several countries, at a very high level.

I have to say having looked into Robertos playing days, I was pretty underwhelmed by the level he played at. I also thought that being Spanish he'd have a fantastic network in Spain and Latin America and was expecting us to sign a few gems. However given he moved to the UK when he was 20 and has been here for the last 21 years, I think I've vastly overestimated his overseas footballing network. Other than delboy, we haven't signed a single 'unknown' player.

Wishful thinking I know and it's only his first season in the prem but Koeman has done wonders at Southampton. Some with that background would be great.

As Robin says, this is a pivotal period for Everton and our credibility as a PL club and if Martinez does go at some point next season then the choice of the new manager will, in my opinion, be the most important appointment we will ever have to make.

Eddie Howe, Phil Neville, Mark Warburton, Davey Weir. Caretaker Sheedy.

One thing is for sure: If we don't win against Newcastle or QPR and we go out of the Europa League, he surely then has to go.

Billy wont sack him so all we can do is hope the players realise he's a chickenshit and take matters into their own hands.

I’m not saying give him the job, because I’m not sure he has got the experience just yet, and although he’s not everyone’s favourite, he might just surprise people. A boyhood blue, who knows what the club means, is a really good starting point

People go on about Rooney, and Stubbs telling him to leave. I don’t know how true that is, but here is a man with his finger on the blue pulse, who probably knew a lot more about what was going on behind the scenes, than most. If it’s true, do you think he would have stayed if Stubbs had told him to?

But at the time we needed a manager, he was on the back of a bad spell and wasn't flavor of the month.

Roberto had profile after the cup win. And he was available after the relegation. Maybe these are the reasons we got him?

There's a risk that we end with another flavor of the month type. In reality we need to have a clear idea of what type of manager we want, and that's more than whoever is riding the crest of the wave at any given time we look.

Roberto talks about his vision. Hang on, isn't he an employee? What's OUR vision? What are Bill and our board trying to implement?

If we were to appoint a Pulis type as our next permanent manager it would show we have no vision; no long term plan. It would show that Roberto was hired for some very poor reasons.

I don't believe that Roberto is the right man, but I think he was the right type. I hope we don't lose our nerve when the decision comes around again.

Sadly though, for every success there's been a failure, sacked or resigned from England, Forest, Twente and Wolfsburg. Who could say how it would work out at Everton?

When he arrived at Hibs they had nothing. Just been relegated, no back room staff, only a few players none knowing if they were in or out contract wise. It was a shambles.

After a poor start he slowly got a few frees and loans in, shipped a few out, and finally got his message out. HeÂ’s done really well with nothing and is a credit to himself.

Thinking outside the box I'd also take a look at Lennon, or maybe, Eddie Howe, although I'd be concerned that he could to come in and command a dressing room at such a young age. I know Moyes did it but we've got some big stars and ego's in this Everton team.

Taking everything into consideration, I'd go down the continental route. Koeman would be the ideal but I see little chance of him leaving Saints for us (sounds crazy, but true) so there's other contenders: De Boar, Laudrup, or even Bilic. In the case of Bilic, I think he'd take the job in a heartbeat. I get the feeling he was putting himself in the frame in the build-up to the RS game recently, saying Everton are big enough to win the league. I'd have mixed feelings over his appointment. I know he's an ex player (a player I really rated coincidently) but he basically fucked us over.

After this season "IF" BK were to fire Martinez, I think he may be to frightened to go for that type manager and go for a McClaren type of proven manager. BK the dictator controls the hiring of who he wants, not the wishes of the people who matter, ie, The Supporters.

Both Moyes and Martinez came from a background of lower level football as players and modest achievement as managers. But there the similarity ended as one was a pragmatist, the other a philosophiser or, as some would have it , the phlegmatic and the fantasist – you takes your pick!

Before them we had an old warhorse in Walter Smith, several strains of 'faded hero' interrupted by a brief visit by a young pretender from East Anglia of all places.

None have been particularly successful in Premier League terms although one did get to stay long enough to claim 'seventhish' as his right. He, of course, went off elsewhere to prove (what most of believed) that that was the limit of his capabilities.

So, given that we've tried 'em all, who is next for the 'toffee mill'? Well, we've never tried a foreigner so that looks like a good bet. And Benitez lives locally.... and is available at 20/1!

@Ernie (18) - great point. A club manager is an employee. The owners need to have some kind of vision of what they want to achieve.

What we definitely do not want is another "Martinez".

As a regular top 6 club with a windfall on its way from the TV deal we had the status and money to go out and get a top class manager with a pedigree.

Lazy Arse Bill decided after talking to his mate Whelan that RM was the only viable option.

With this Myopia in the boardroom we will never progress and are now in fact regressing at a rapid rate.

Never mind the glass ceiling what about the glass floor.

It will now be more difficult to entice a top manager for our "project" but IMO we need someone with a pedigree not a "risk".

On another note to break into the top 4 needs money as well as managerial skill.

Just look at Van Gaal who has had to spend 150 million to even give United a chance at the top 4 and Brenda over the road who has spent over 200 million and is still only knocking on the door.

We need a boardroom long term plan before we have a "manager's" long term plan.

Where will we be in 5 years?

If Bill continues to form god knows.

John 22, I knew he was doing okay, but I think he needs to manage for at least 3 seasons before he makes the step up though.

I respect Stubbs for his decision to leave Everton, when they insisted on putting certain clauses into his new contract, regarding a past illness. Must have hurt him to leave, when he would have been leading his team into the Champions League, but I think it's a decision most principled people would have had to make, given the circumstances.

There is no genius manager who is going to take us back to the glory days and we certainly won’t be finishing in the top 4. What we need is a pragmatist and a good organiser who is good in the transfer market and who has a record of keeping teams in the top flight. That is the brutal truth.

As for attracting top managers, this is the EPL one of the top leagues in the world, any manager worth his salt wants to manage here, plus we pay great wages plus there's a shed load of money coming next season plus it's always good to follow someone who's struggled, add on top of that a decent squad that's been under utilised .

A manager who comes in and just does the basics will be good for a start.

Just to show how money is the catalyst to success, just look at Chelsea. I have lost count of how many managers they have had in the last 10 years but it hasn't stopped them winning trophies.

So the best we can hope for is a manager who will hopefully keep us in the top half of the Premier League and possibly get to a Wembley final every 5 years or so. A bit like the last manager achieved – anything else is just wishful thinking.

But the truth is that the game is about players and the top players want to play for the top clubs i.e. those clubs who happen to occupy the top six positions at the moment. We expected to be up among those clubs this season but we aren’t and because of this setback we are less likely to attract the better players even if we could afford them and with a manager who insists on a particular way of playing we could be in a long-term spiral of decline.

Some of us thought this might be the case prior to Martinez’s arrival, unfortunately his style of management thus far has accelerated and exacerbated this process. Whoever comes in will have to be a fire-fighter and be able to spot cheap talent who can replace the ageing members of the squad. A Moyes MK11 rather than another Martinez.

I would like RM top have never been hired but do not see how he can be let go now with the stipulation that he not ever ever ever speak to or release any statements to the press again.

But there are some young promising managers out there. As many have suggested before, Bilic is a good shout. I watched Basel's games against Madrid, RS and I kind of liked Paulo Sousa's style from what I saw. Current Sporting CP manager Marco Silva is highly regarded in Portugal who succeeded Leonardo Jardim, Monaco's manager who is also highly regarded. In general Portugal is a place to look for young promising managers. There are also some good managers in German, Spanish mid-table clubs.

The person has put a few bob on him being the next Newcastle manager, but who knows?

I think its about building a team that is consistently putting themselves in with a chance of it and then you hope you get a season were someone slips up, a bit like Liverpool almost had with regards to the league last year. With a proper manager we would have a very good defense. Even under this clown Robles, Stones and Jagielka don't concede many, then if he could get Coleman and Baines back to their pre-Martinez form we've got the best full back pairing in the league. I will not buy that there is not enough offensive power in Lukaku Mirallas and Barkley to push for fourth especially when you see Sturridge Balotelli and Lambrini hobbling their way to it without barely scoring between them.

The problem is the midfield. if Gibson was fit and we had Pienaar Arteta and Osman in their prime there'd be no issue. Sadly Martinez has lumbered us with very defensive conservative crab like players. If a decent manager could come in, keep Gibson fit, add another play maker, or god forbid put Barkley in his correct position we would unlock that talent going forward.

It all starts from the back though. Moyes' issue was he built his house on Sand because the Distin Jagielka partnership was suicidal especially with Howard behind it. Too many wins where we'd easily done enough turned to draws (the most painful in my mind being the 2-2 at home v Newcastle in Moyes' last season - absolutely destroyed them and Distin and Howard got done by a long ball). Imagine those games though with Stones and Robles playing. I honestly think the backline is good enough to get top 4 - if we get a competent manager.

Ask yourself this, if Mourinho took over this squad would anyone have any doubt about us getting the top 4 at least once in the next few seasons? No, therefore its not the squad (although making it better helps), it has enough talent, it just didn't have the mentality under Moyes, and doesn't seem to have a clue under Martinez. Despite all this though we have made the top 4 in the past in much more unlikely circumstances and we've posted points totals at least twice since then that in some seasons would have qualified. It's clearly not impossible.

In the case of Stubbs, I'd be very disappointed if he ever got the job: He'd probably be advising players to leave. I've not forgotten his influence over young Rooney.

Martinez might be a Catalan but he's plied nearly all his time in GB so he is no longer Bobby Foreigner.

What we want is the real thing – without an interpreter – so we don't have to try to understand a fecking word he utters!

New philosophy, established players sidelined, usually resulting in 'losing the dressing room'; sacked... Next!! And the carousel turns again.

As much as I cursed OFM, for his anti-football and massive inferiority complex towards the Sky 4, he did bring continuity, and glimpses of a new dawn.

It's the thought of the turmoil, being the new Fulham, that makes me cling to the notion that this season has been a blip (yeah, right), and that players who have played the right way for a number of years cannot overnight become bad, limited players... could they?

I get your point that you don't like a 'revolving door' approach to management.

In which case, will any arl duffer do?
If so, he's here currently.

That said, I have some doubts when you write: "the philosophy of the appointment of Roberto Martinez was correct. A relatively young manager with an identifiable philosophy..."

I think it’s not simply a question of semantics when I say, personally, I don’t want a manager with a ’philosophy.’

Why? Because adhering to a particular ’philosophy’ - be that related to religion, politics, way of living, whatever, or in this case, football management - the danger is that you follow your philosophy with blind adherence.

That is, you only ’see’ the world, yourself, others and the sphere in which we live and work, through your ’ideas. You are blind to and exclude all other data that possibly disproves your ’philosophy.’

And on the evidence of this season, Roberto Martinez is displaying exactly that trait.

If and when RM departs from Everton, as he inevitably will one day, rather than appoint someone with a ’philosophy,’ my personal preference is to appoint a manager with a proven system, or even better, systems (plural) that adapts, adjusts and evolves to different teams and times, both within a season and within a live game.

Exactly.
Well said, Jay.

Work to the strengths of what you currently have at your disposal.

You will also find Everton look for a particular 'type' of manager - one who can work with Bill. That would rule out about 90% of decent prospects. BK will certainly have a reputation in football circles, you can decide what that may be for yourself.

My own personal choice would be Bilic but would he come? Anyone advocating Benitez needs to look long and hard at themselves especially after the disparaging remarks he made about our club.

And could you imagine the derby over there? All them cretins on the kop singing his name. He'd come out the dugout and wave to the twats. Do me a favour... I don't even think Kenwright would entertain this fella.

I agree that a manager should be given a chance but the problem that Martinez is creating for himself, is that he does not seem to be able to change or just make small changes to bring us out of this slump. And now with some of his comments, it has people scratching their heads to understand what he is talking about.

I have said before that with his poor team selections, positional play, players being played either in the wrong positions or out of form he seems to be on track to get himself fired, and the sad thing about it, is he is dragging the fine name of Everton FC down with him.

@57 Kevin your right about work ethic being number one priority. No good side lacks it or a stern defence. Neither seems to be on the mind of The Confidence Trickster.

Don't agree on BK though. Can't stand him but his reputation in football and the media is actually very good. A lot of managers would come here simply because they are given time and decent funds. Big part of that is down to BK. Who I can't stand for the record!

I also think BK is probably a bit of a laughing stock amongst serious football people. Did you ever read the extract from Fergie's book about the Rooney transfer?

Personally, I suspect anyone with a philosophy - unless it is accompanied by a stash of money to realise it. A project where the training facilities are improved, an academy is set up, the ground is improved, no long contracts are offered to over 30's, and so on, is fine but actual football management requires a recognition that you have to work with and adapt to the resources at your disposal.

Rafa is a quality manager who has delivered success wherever he's been. I think he's the sort of manager we should be going after, he'd certainly take us up a level or two.

I'd have no qualms in seeing Rafa in situ at Goodison. But he's nobodys fool, so I doubt he'd work for a phony like Kenwright.

When you look back when our previous manager left we had many years of continuity. The chairman had a difficult call to make. He could have promoted from within, someone who knew the club and would bring new ideas but keeping the work ethic installed from the previous setup.

The chairman chose a man with a total different philosophy of football and style of management. Perhaps the chairman thought like many Evertonians we had gone stale, new ideas and motivation was needed. This is why I think he will be given another chance if we stay up. Implementing his ideas is taking longer than he thought; Work in Progress may be the statement in the summer..

I haven't read it no but I saw some of the quotes. BK is a fool but in the eyes of the 'media' he is the boyhood fan chairman making ends meet without billionaire investors blah blah. You may be right in some football circles I'm sure we are seen as more of a cushy job where not much is expected rather than being a sleeping giant.

To see anyone seriously consider Benitez as a manager is a joke. Benitez has managed big clubs with moderate success but he has had open cheque books at each club and bought big named players but his defensive mentality has reaped little reward. I doubt if Rafa would even consider a "smaller club" as he once called us even if he was on the dole. The reality of our plight is perfectly illustrated by Ian Tunstead (33) and Bill Gall (39).

Its not good to start ripping into the manager and players out of form prior to a decent run in Europe. Come on, boys and girls, remember who we are... we are Everton. Get back to basics; we are playing in Europe – we will not be relegated... and Roberto Martinez will turn it around.

We have been unlucky; the players are professionals and will do the job for us, I have no doubt. Mark my comments and look to them in 4 weeks time, then take another look back at the negative comments made.

Let's get it back together... we are Everton.

Well, let me say that I understand that 'in the times we live in' money is often linked to intelligence, but I for one don't buy 'smarter than average' for a second (certainly not my definition of smarter).

And there's plenty of dumb rich to back me up.

The well known 'entrepreneur' (ie: property dealer) 'Lord' Sugar is worth tens of millions, yet is undoubtedly as thick as mince (with the vocabulary of a turnip).

Donald Trump the same – a perfect example of mouth in gear, brain in neutral.

Katie Price couldn't beat a potato at noughts and crosses but has millions.

Or try West Ham co-owner, millionaire porn Baron David Sullivan – so 'smart' he dresses like a 1940s British Railways ticket inspector.

Guessing quarter-wit Joey Essex will end with a few mill too.

Even the late Jade Goodie (a cabbage in almost human form) made a couple of million (in fact in her case, like Mr Essex, idiocy made her money).

What they DO have is the love of a quid and in most cases appear prepared to do just just about anything (crush and/or exploit others, act the arsehole, flash their tits/minge, grasp, cheat, lie, etc) to get hold of as many quids as they can.

BK is no different imo.

As for his 'beautiful wife', well not really sure how that's relevant (although to be fair, she does choose our managers).

Whether or not she's beautiful, I suppose that's subjective but... getting less subjective with the passing of time (and personally, I wouldn't even go to the bog after Michael Winner had been in, never mind...).

[If only I was religious, I could have a good oul' gloat at all of them and quote Mark 8:36.]

If you think that qualifies him to take our club in the right direction, then fair enough, but I find stories like this very worrying:

It was August 2004 and we had just played Everton. Bill Kenwright was crying. As we studied the Everton chairman in his sorrow, he announced that he would like to make a call. Through his tears, Bill said: "I'll need to phone my mother."

"They're stealing our boy, they're stealing our boy," he said down the line. Then he passed the phone to me. "Don't you dare think you're getting that boy for nothing. That boy's worth 㿞m," said a female voice.

Doesn't sound very promising, does it?

You're correct that there is a danger when maintaining a philosophy extends to excessive inflexibility. So, in RM's case, the reasonable philosophy of an attacking focused, with an emphasis on possession, approach is valid. An unchanging formation and an inability to vary the approach within the boundaries of that philosophy is the downside.

Flexibility within an overall ethos is perfectly valid and possible.

Also, I have no clue what Rafa said hence my support. That I mentioned Phil is in no way an understanding that Phil was pushing him.

Schalke

up one on Real.