The latest passive performance in a supposedly "must win" game has finally seen me lose patience with Roberto Martinez. I think it's time for him to go.

I'd held off calling for his head because he was hired as part of a long-term plan. We do need a long-term plan, and sometimes implementing a long-term plan can cause short-term pain. But there's no sign of improvement, only decline. A plan should be visible and identifiable in what it's trying to achieve, even if it's not currently working, and I don't see that.

If we do fire Roberto Martinez then we need to go out and hire... another Roberto Martinez.

Whether the appointment of the individual was wrong or not, the philosophy of the appointment of Roberto Martinez was correct. A relatively young manager with an identifiable philosophy, a proven record of promise if not outright success, and a willingness and desire to remodel the club's playing approach at all levels – not just the first team. Any appointment along those lines is a risk, but it's a risk that we have to keep taking.

If we don't take that risk, and go for a safer appointment along the lines of managers some people have mentioned – Tony Pulis, Steve McClaren – then in all likelihood we'll be alright. We'll safely maintain a Premier League place, probably in the upper midtable range. We'll be also-rans, but we'll be safe also-rans.

Were Kenwright to fire Martinez today, or at any point before the end of the season, then any appointment would need to be temporary. A caretaker to motivate the team enough to drag us away from the relegation threat. And such a caretaker would need to be someone who was not being considered for the job long term (ideally, somebody who doesn't even want the job long term). A sample size of 10 league results would not be the basis to make any long-term decisions on the managerial direction of the club.

When Borussia Dortmund were hiring a new manager in 2008, they weren't in a position to hire a proven top-quality manager. They'd had several years of poor league performances and serious financial issues. So they hired a manager who'd not only been relegated with his previous club, but who'd also failed to bring that club back up the following season. They had to take that risk on a promising but risky manager, and Jurgen Klopp has brought them massive success.

Everton are not in a position to hire a proven top quality manager, either. We can't hire a manager who'd immediately give us huge confidence that he could take us forward to success, or break the barriers at the top of the league. We have two options – the safe one that makes sure we're "OK", and the risky one that requires patience, fundamental change throughout the club, and the potential to backfire. If we are ever to reach higher when teams are owned by oil oligarchs or Arab royalty, and have essentially unlimited funds (and I truly hope we never become one of those clubs), that's the only possible approach.

There's lots of ways to take that risk. I would have loved to have seen us approach Marcelo Bielsa rather than Martinez. An ageing coach with poor English who'd never managed in this country, who'd require massive changes throughout the structure of the club. Ian Cathro, a 28-year-old who's never played professional football, is a huge influence as assistant manager at Valencia, and looking to step into a managerial role. The next successful manager we hire is probably going to be an appointment which divides the fans, because they'll have massive pros and cons. And it might blow up in our faces.

The only way that we can aspire to real success is to put ourselves at risk of greater failure.

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Jeff Hughes
1 Posted 09/03/2015 at 06:39:39
I would agree that a youngish and ambitious manager should be the target IF patience with Roberto finally runs out. Where I have great difficulty is the use of the word philosophy in relation to football management. All managers will have a view on a style of play but does that amount to a philosophy?

To be honest, the best managers seek to make the best use of the players they have and will adjust their squads as and when money is available to develop a preferred style. What must not get in the way is an unwillingness to adjust what you are doing. If you keep losing games perhaps the style ain't right. Martinez suggests that you cannot over pass. Therein, lies a real barrier for him to be successful.

His obsession with keeping the ball has blunted our confidence, movement, willingness to shoot and has led to rather slow football that does not create panic in opposition defences and blunts, significantly, the passion of the fans. Winning games is the only philosophy required!

Derek Thomas
2 Posted 09/03/2015 at 07:07:46
There are 5 stages in certain careers, actors, footballers, managers.

1) Who's Roberto Martinez? (fill in to suit)

2) Try Roberto Martinez.

3) Get me Roberto Martinez.

4) I want a Roberto Martinez type.

5) Who's Roberto Martinez.

What we need is the Goldilocks version... Not too Moyes, not too Martinez, but Just Right!

Ray Robinson
3 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:18:11
Agree that we don’t want a trouble-shooter along the lines of a Pulis. It’s no coincidence that he continues to operate in the lower half of the Premier League. However, I don’t necessarily agree that we need a guy with a "philosophy" either, whatever that means in football terms. Sometimes the best managers evolve. I’m sure that Alex Ferguson did. Brendan Rodgers has done. He started with a philosophy, like Martinez, but adapted it when it wasn’t working. It’s no exact science, management - that’s why I’d prefer a manager who can adapt to the circumstances and make the best of the resources available. Having a philosophy tends to lead to lack of flexibility and lack of pragmatism, which, I’m afraid our manager is guilty of. You clearly cannot make every team play like a Barcelona in their prime.
Ciaran Duff
4 Posted 09/03/2015 at 07:28:21
Good article Robin and I fully agree about taking a risk with any potential new manager. Let me add another example, being the Socceroos.

Over the last few years they have opted for mediocre European managers (can anyone even remember Pim Verbeek & Holger Osieck) who have low risk philosophies. A couple of years ago, FFA took a big risk in appointing a local coach (Ange Postecoglou) who publicly stated that he wanted to play attacking football, give youth a chance and that it would take a few years.

There were some difficult times - even though they played some nice football they lost all of their games in WC, a few friendlies after that and their lowest FIFA ranking (102). Still the FFA stuck with him and he stuck with his attacking (4-3-3, possession based, high tempo, quick transition strategy) philosophy. As you know they recently won the AFC Asian Cup but really what impressed was the style in which they did it. Both the football & attitude were great. It didn't rely on individuals (9 different scorers in 6 games and it was attractive.

So, my points? Taking a risk can pay off and maybe we should check and see when Ange Postecoglou's contract is up!

Steve Pugh
5 Posted 09/03/2015 at 07:45:39
Don't misread this please. What we need is our version of Tony Pulis, but not Tony Pulis. Wherever he goes he gets teams playing his brand of football, and playing it well. He adapts within his style to suit the opposition but it is always Tony Pulis football.

What we want is a young manager from the lower leagues who has been with 2 or 3 clubs, been relatively successful at that level with each of them and plays the style of football we want to see at Goodison.

James Stewart
6 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:37:50
Thomas Tuchel would be my pick. At least you know you are getting a pragmatist and not another blinkered my way or the highway type like Martinez/Moyes
Ernie Baywood
7 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:43:17
Agree with the opening post. Our venture into trying to play open expansive possession football shouldn't end with Roberto. In the same way you wouldn't stop dating beautiful women just because your last girlfriend turned out to be a pain.

Percentage football is a sure fire way to achieve little more than your financial standing allows. The next manager needs to be a realist, a pragmatist, and someone who has a vision of evolving us into a top, footballing side with a style to match.

He's out there somewhere isn't he?

Sam Hoare
8 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:41:20
Right now even Tony Pulis would feel like a breath of fresh air.

I agree with the premise of the OP we want what we thought we were getting with Martinez; someone to implement long term positive change, to play attractive football with us scoring goals and to bring through talented youngsters. Sadly Martinez has looked less and less able to tick any of these three boxes.

I don't think a risky unheard of European manager necessarily has to be the way forward and to be fair to McClaren he has built a young team at Derby that are challenging for promotion, scoring 2 goals per game but also looking relatively organised. We could do worse. But hopefully we could do better as well.

I think De Boer could be a very good candidate and bring a few tasty, good value players from the Eredivisie. Laudrup is the bookies favourite but I'm not sure I approve of him. Benitez would be controversial but very effective I think. Neil Lennon would at least give us some fight. Eddie Howe would be the 'new Moyes' option.

I don't know any more. My confidence is shaken. I suspect Martinez will get another crack unless we really tank the end of the season. Any insiders have any idea what the thinking is at HQ?

Denis Richardson
9 Posted 09/03/2015 at 08:59:05
I'd love a young continental manager who has achieved a high level of success as a player or at least worked at a top european club.

I think any manager who has played at one of the top clubs and won some of the games biggest trophies would immediately command respect from the players. That manager would also know what it takes to win and will have a decent network of contacts and managers across several countries, at a very high level.

I have to say having looked into Robertos playing days, I was pretty underwhelmed by the level he played at. I also thought that being Spanish he'd have a fantastic network in Spain and Latin America and was expecting us to sign a few gems. However given he moved to the UK when he was 20 and has been here for the last 21 years, I think I've vastly overestimated his overseas footballing network. Other than delboy, we haven't signed a single 'unknown' player.

Wishful thinking I know and it's only his first season in the prem but Koeman has done wonders at Southampton. Some with that background would be great.

Tony Hill
10 Posted 09/03/2015 at 09:04:25
I agree, Sam, that Martinez will get another shot if we survive (I do not think he should, but he will). To that extent, debating who his successor might be is premature but McClaren's record can't be easily dismissed and I think he would be very much in the running. I certainly wouldn't look at Laudrup and I'm not convinced by Lennon either.

As Robin says, this is a pivotal period for Everton and our credibility as a PL club and if Martinez does go at some point next season then the choice of the new manager will, in my opinion, be the most important appointment we will ever have to make.

Derek Thomas
11 Posted 09/03/2015 at 09:42:42
Ciaran (#4) – we could do worse; he knows how to win titles, has won a 2nd tier but still major International competition, not been relegated (as far as I know).
Rob Dolby
12 Posted 09/03/2015 at 09:51:37
If BK does give Roberto the chop, he isn't exactly spoilt for choice in who he replaces him with.

Eddie Howe, Phil Neville, Mark Warburton, Davey Weir. Caretaker Sheedy.

One thing is for sure: If we don't win against Newcastle or QPR and we go out of the Europa League, he surely then has to go.

Iain Love
13 Posted 09/03/2015 at 10:25:49
I honestly thought that when Martinez was appointed we would win more games lose more games and draw less games as a result of a more attacking ethos. That is obviously not the case, I fail to see an attacking ethos just an attempt to emulate Barcelona without Xavi and the rest .

Billy wont sack him so all we can do is hope the players realise he's a chickenshit and take matters into their own hands.

Tony Abrahams
14 Posted 09/03/2015 at 10:38:38
Stubbs left Everton, the year we came 4th, and we was truly abysmal until he returned, the next January. He left again this summer, and we have been shocking again.

I’m not saying give him the job, because I’m not sure he has got the experience just yet, and although he’s not everyone’s favourite, he might just surprise people. A boyhood blue, who knows what the club means, is a really good starting point

People go on about Rooney, and Stubbs telling him to leave. I don’t know how true that is, but here is a man with his finger on the blue pulse, who probably knew a lot more about what was going on behind the scenes, than most. If it’s true, do you think he would have stayed if Stubbs had told him to?

Ross Edwards
15 Posted 09/03/2015 at 11:06:42
Tuchel. Very highly rated in Germany. Probably the closest thing to Klopp as you can get. Led Mainz to successive European qualifications, with the budget they have compared to the likes of Schalke and Wolfsburg, that's a great achievement.
Ross Edwards
16 Posted 09/03/2015 at 11:11:38
I forgot to add that Tuchel is one of few managers in the last 4 or 5 years to have won away at Bayern.
Ross Edwards
17 Posted 09/03/2015 at 11:14:12
Not actually successive qualifications, but he led Mainz to 3 top half finishes in 6 years.
Ernie Baywood
18 Posted 09/03/2015 at 11:07:14
Tony #10 But McLaren's record was dismissed by many a couple of years back. He actually had a great CV and obviously lots of big club experience winning nearly everything as an assistant.

But at the time we needed a manager, he was on the back of a bad spell and wasn't flavor of the month.

Roberto had profile after the cup win. And he was available after the relegation. Maybe these are the reasons we got him?

There's a risk that we end with another flavor of the month type. In reality we need to have a clear idea of what type of manager we want, and that's more than whoever is riding the crest of the wave at any given time we look.

Roberto talks about his vision. Hang on, isn't he an employee? What's OUR vision? What are Bill and our board trying to implement?

If we were to appoint a Pulis type as our next permanent manager it would show we have no vision; no long term plan. It would show that Roberto was hired for some very poor reasons.

I don't believe that Roberto is the right man, but I think he was the right type. I hope we don't lose our nerve when the decision comes around again.

Bill Griffiths
19 Posted 09/03/2015 at 11:21:30
Totally agree with your sentiments Robin. Not sure who I would go for but certainly think MaClaren might be worth a shout. Another young manager with potential is Eddie Howe, not sure whether he's ready to step up to this level yet though.
Kevin Tully
20 Posted 09/03/2015 at 11:29:27
McClaren led FC Twente to the first League title in their history, that's some achievement on it's own. He also took Middlesbrough to a European final and they won their first ever trophy (League Cup) under his management.

Sadly though, for every success there's been a failure, sacked or resigned from England, Forest, Twente and Wolfsburg. Who could say how it would work out at Everton?

Jimmi James
21 Posted 09/03/2015 at 11:30:33
I think most know what will happen here, option 1-survive to play in the prem next season Martinez stays, option 2-relegation-Martinez stays to finish the job whatever that may be with our beloved chairman stating that he is the best man to get us back in the prem.
John Keating
22 Posted 09/03/2015 at 11:47:31
Tony 14, Stubbs has transformed Hibs. At their level, they are playing the good football we played last season.

When he arrived at Hibs they had nothing. Just been relegated, no back room staff, only a few players none knowing if they were in or out contract wise. It was a shambles.

After a poor start he slowly got a few frees and loans in, shipped a few out, and finally got his message out. HeÂ’s done really well with nothing and is a credit to himself.

Andrew Ellams
23 Posted 09/03/2015 at 12:00:42
I don't have an issue with hiring somebody with a relegation on their CV if they have also proven that they learned from that experience, Roberto clearly has not.

Gavin Johnson
24 Posted 09/03/2015 at 12:55:21
Sam, If we hired an established domestic manager, I would hire Steve McClaren over the likes of Mark Hughes and Tony Pulis, everyday of the week: He actually knows how to win trophies. He's got a very good record. Unfortunately he's been tarred with the England brush and that seems to turn a lot of people off who just think of the umbrella and the Croatia game.

Thinking outside the box I'd also take a look at Lennon, or maybe, Eddie Howe, although I'd be concerned that he could to come in and command a dressing room at such a young age. I know Moyes did it but we've got some big stars and ego's in this Everton team.

Taking everything into consideration, I'd go down the continental route. Koeman would be the ideal but I see little chance of him leaving Saints for us (sounds crazy, but true) so there's other contenders: De Boar, Laudrup, or even Bilic. In the case of Bilic, I think he'd take the job in a heartbeat. I get the feeling he was putting himself in the frame in the build-up to the RS game recently, saying Everton are big enough to win the league. I'd have mixed feelings over his appointment. I know he's an ex player (a player I really rated coincidently) but he basically fucked us over.

Sam Hoare
25 Posted 09/03/2015 at 13:28:00
Yes, Gavin I think Mclaren would do a better job than a lot would expect. He has impressive experience and would bring more stability to the table than someone who's had one or two decent seasons in Europe but is also capable of implementing good football.
Bill Gall
26 Posted 09/03/2015 at 13:09:56
We would all like someone that thinks and demands progressive
football gets respect from the players and brings in youth to keep everyone fresh .It is no use us wishing for someone who believes in his style of play but is willing to change with a plan (b) or (c) if it is needed, studies the game for future development trends and doe's not insist on one style developed by one club. That is up to one man..

After this season "IF" BK were to fire Martinez, I think he may be to frightened to go for that type manager and go for a McClaren type of proven manager. BK the dictator controls the hiring of who he wants, not the wishes of the people who matter, ie, The Supporters.

Phil Walling
27 Posted 09/03/2015 at 12:30:26
So many 'younger' managers light up the game only to fade as the pressure mounts with the demand for Premier League success. Perhaps at a Burnley, Leicester, Hull – and dare I mention Wigan, the emphasis is on mere survival but at a traditionally 'big' club such as Everton much more is expected.

Both Moyes and Martinez came from a background of lower level football as players and modest achievement as managers. But there the similarity ended as one was a pragmatist, the other a philosophiser or, as some would have it , the phlegmatic and the fantasist – you takes your pick!

Before them we had an old warhorse in Walter Smith, several strains of 'faded hero' interrupted by a brief visit by a young pretender from East Anglia of all places.

None have been particularly successful in Premier League terms although one did get to stay long enough to claim 'seventhish' as his right. He, of course, went off elsewhere to prove (what most of believed) that that was the limit of his capabilities.

So, given that we've tried 'em all, who is next for the 'toffee mill'? Well, we've never tried a foreigner so that looks like a good bet. And Benitez lives locally.... and is available at 20/1!

Robin Cannon
28 Posted 09/03/2015 at 14:03:43
Might have been harsh on McClaren in the original article. I never find him particularly inspiring, but he has had surprising success at times in his career.

@Ernie (18) - great point. A club manager is an employee. The owners need to have some kind of vision of what they want to achieve.

Jay Harris
29 Posted 09/03/2015 at 14:28:08
I have to totally disagree with the OP.

What we definitely do not want is another "Martinez".

As a regular top 6 club with a windfall on its way from the TV deal we had the status and money to go out and get a top class manager with a pedigree.

Lazy Arse Bill decided after talking to his mate Whelan that RM was the only viable option.

With this Myopia in the boardroom we will never progress and are now in fact regressing at a rapid rate.

Never mind the glass ceiling what about the glass floor.

It will now be more difficult to entice a top manager for our "project" but IMO we need someone with a pedigree not a "risk".

On another note to break into the top 4 needs money as well as managerial skill.

Just look at Van Gaal who has had to spend 150 million to even give United a chance at the top 4 and Brenda over the road who has spent over 200 million and is still only knocking on the door.

We need a boardroom long term plan before we have a "manager's" long term plan.

Where will we be in 5 years?

If Bill continues to form god knows.

Mike Childs
30 Posted 09/03/2015 at 14:52:42
A lot of good points made as I don't know many of the names thrown out there I will believe what you folks have pointed out and just add I thought Benitez did very well at Chelsea. If he was interested I'd be happy with that choice.
Andrew Ellams
31 Posted 09/03/2015 at 15:12:42
Mike, I think Benitez is the sort of manager that we need to be looking at, but unfortunately due to the derogatory remarks that he made about our club when he was working across the park there are many who would struggle to accept him.
Tony Abrahams
32 Posted 09/03/2015 at 15:20:52
Andrew 31, I hate Benetiz, but one thing I would give him credit for, would be that he's way to honest, for a phoney like Kenwright.

John 22, I knew he was doing okay, but I think he needs to manage for at least 3 seasons before he makes the step up though.

I respect Stubbs for his decision to leave Everton, when they insisted on putting certain clauses into his new contract, regarding a past illness. Must have hurt him to leave, when he would have been leading his team into the Champions League, but I think it's a decision most principled people would have had to make, given the circumstances.

Ian Tunstead
33 Posted 09/03/2015 at 15:23:39
People still donÂ’t get it after all this time. Have you learnt nothing? We have no money, it doesnÂ’t matter who is manager, we are not going to win anything unless by pure chance, like when Birmingham and Portsmouth won the League Cup and FA Cup.

There is no genius manager who is going to take us back to the glory days and we certainly won’t be finishing in the top 4. What we need is a pragmatist and a good organiser who is good in the transfer market and who has a record of keeping teams in the top flight. That is the brutal truth.

Iain Love
34 Posted 09/03/2015 at 15:37:06
Benitez loses faith with players very quickly and constantly wants change, we are not his ideal fit.

As for attracting top managers, this is the EPL one of the top leagues in the world, any manager worth his salt wants to manage here, plus we pay great wages plus there's a shed load of money coming next season plus it's always good to follow someone who's struggled, add on top of that a decent squad that's been under utilised .

A manager who comes in and just does the basics will be good for a start.

Gavin Johnson
35 Posted 09/03/2015 at 16:13:37
Irrespective of his derisory comments about Everton, imagine how fast Benitez would lose good will after a run of poor results if he ever managed us. An ex-RS who liked to belittle us would have no chance. Just look how Martinez has been lynched for taking the relative minnows 'Wigan' down to the Championship.
Brian Harrison
36 Posted 09/03/2015 at 16:11:51
Another Martinez... oh please, haven't we had enough of a manager with a philosophy? We need a manager who has no pre-set agenda who comes in, looks at the players he has, and devises a system to get the best out of them. Money is usually the key to success; since Sir John relinquished control, we have struggled.

Just to show how money is the catalyst to success, just look at Chelsea. I have lost count of how many managers they have had in the last 10 years but it hasn't stopped them winning trophies.

So the best we can hope for is a manager who will hopefully keep us in the top half of the Premier League and possibly get to a Wembley final every 5 years or so. A bit like the last manager achieved – anything else is just wishful thinking.

Bill Gall
39 Posted 09/03/2015 at 16:38:39
Ian # 33 The truth hurts and that is why people will still dream on. Good understanding of were the club are, and has been under our present dictatorship owner.
Patrick Murphy
40 Posted 09/03/2015 at 16:46:16
Ian #33 should be listened to, we are probably going to end up with a Pulis, Hughes or Allardyce than a high-profile experienced European type. Bilic may be a possibility but West Ham might quite like to have him and the lure of London would help them to get him.

But the truth is that the game is about players and the top players want to play for the top clubs i.e. those clubs who happen to occupy the top six positions at the moment. We expected to be up among those clubs this season but we aren’t and because of this setback we are less likely to attract the better players even if we could afford them and with a manager who insists on a particular way of playing we could be in a long-term spiral of decline.

Some of us thought this might be the case prior to Martinez’s arrival, unfortunately his style of management thus far has accelerated and exacerbated this process. Whoever comes in will have to be a fire-fighter and be able to spot cheap talent who can replace the ageing members of the squad. A Moyes MK11 rather than another Martinez.

Chris Gould
41 Posted 09/03/2015 at 17:11:46
I think there will be plenty of managers who will look at our squad and feel that they can make a top 6 team with it. Thanks to all of the money being ploughed into the premier league, Everton will be an attractive option if they get rid of RM. I just don't think we have a board capable of choosing the right man.
Jim Hardin
42 Posted 09/03/2015 at 16:15:40
I think the days of a 10 year manager are over. I would take Rafa in a heartbeat knowing full well that he will be gone in 2 seasons tops. We aren't going to spend the money to overhaul the club to suit a particular coaching style and Rafa has proven he can adapt to who he has (He used Moses on the wing to feed Torres to get him scoring again). I am also an Own Coyle fan (now over here in the MLS) due to his time at Burnley but he has a habit of leaving midseason or at other odd times so that is worryiing.

I would like RM top have never been hired but do not see how he can be let go now with the stipulation that he not ever ever ever speak to or release any statements to the press again.

Robert Johnson
43 Posted 09/03/2015 at 17:25:07
Marcelo Bielsa would be my first choice too. Everywhere he goes, he changes the entire system/setup, starting from the academy. He also likes to blood academy players more than any top-flight managers do. I also like Benfica's manager Jorge Jesus, probably one of best coaches out there who can spot and groom young talents. But I am not sure whether any of them would leave their current clubs!

But there are some young promising managers out there. As many have suggested before, Bilic is a good shout. I watched Basel's games against Madrid, RS and I kind of liked Paulo Sousa's style from what I saw. Current Sporting CP manager Marco Silva is highly regarded in Portugal who succeeded Leonardo Jardim, Monaco's manager who is also highly regarded. In general Portugal is a place to look for young promising managers. There are also some good managers in German, Spanish mid-table clubs.

Robert Johnson
44 Posted 09/03/2015 at 17:47:30
Corr. - Everywhere he goes, he changes the entire system/set-up starting from the academy.
David Hallwood
45 Posted 09/03/2015 at 18:15:41
For those who are shouting for Benitez I have a strange story. About 3months ago I was talking to someone who lives in Caldy and told me that Benitez has told his agent to look for a job in EPL.

The person has put a few bob on him being the next Newcastle manager, but who knows?

James Martin
46 Posted 09/03/2015 at 18:45:42
I honestly don't think cracking the top 4 is that hard for a manger and certainly not impossible for a club like Everton. Take this season for example a very poor Liverpool or United side are going to get it, that's if an even poorer Spurs or Southampton don't. I actually think that some of Moyes' sides if you added Lukaku and Stones could have made it. After all the basic formula was right all we were missing was a good centreback partnership ever since Lescott and Jags, and a good striker.

I think its about building a team that is consistently putting themselves in with a chance of it and then you hope you get a season were someone slips up, a bit like Liverpool almost had with regards to the league last year. With a proper manager we would have a very good defense. Even under this clown Robles, Stones and Jagielka don't concede many, then if he could get Coleman and Baines back to their pre-Martinez form we've got the best full back pairing in the league. I will not buy that there is not enough offensive power in Lukaku Mirallas and Barkley to push for fourth especially when you see Sturridge Balotelli and Lambrini hobbling their way to it without barely scoring between them.

The problem is the midfield. if Gibson was fit and we had Pienaar Arteta and Osman in their prime there'd be no issue. Sadly Martinez has lumbered us with very defensive conservative crab like players. If a decent manager could come in, keep Gibson fit, add another play maker, or god forbid put Barkley in his correct position we would unlock that talent going forward.

It all starts from the back though. Moyes' issue was he built his house on Sand because the Distin Jagielka partnership was suicidal especially with Howard behind it. Too many wins where we'd easily done enough turned to draws (the most painful in my mind being the 2-2 at home v Newcastle in Moyes' last season - absolutely destroyed them and Distin and Howard got done by a long ball). Imagine those games though with Stones and Robles playing. I honestly think the backline is good enough to get top 4 - if we get a competent manager.

Ask yourself this, if Mourinho took over this squad would anyone have any doubt about us getting the top 4 at least once in the next few seasons? No, therefore its not the squad (although making it better helps), it has enough talent, it just didn't have the mentality under Moyes, and doesn't seem to have a clue under Martinez. Despite all this though we have made the top 4 in the past in much more unlikely circumstances and we've posted points totals at least twice since then that in some seasons would have qualified. It's clearly not impossible.

Gavin Johnson
47 Posted 09/03/2015 at 19:02:17
Eddie Howe is now second favourite alongside Stubbs, should Martinez get the push. Personally I think he could do a job, he looks a top manager in the making but we've moved on a lot since Moyes took the job. Does anyone else worry about his lack of experience and think the Everton job might be too much for him yet??

In the case of Stubbs, I'd be very disappointed if he ever got the job: He'd probably be advising players to leave. I've not forgotten his influence over young Rooney.

Phil Walling
48 Posted 09/03/2015 at 18:58:32
Hey, my tongue-in-cheek mention of Benitez in no way implied that I was advocating his recruitment. Only that we'd tried everything else and so the time was ripe for an 'overseas' appointment.

Martinez might be a Catalan but he's plied nearly all his time in GB so he is no longer Bobby Foreigner.

What we want is the real thing – without an interpreter – so we don't have to try to understand a fecking word he utters!

Brian Hennessy
49 Posted 09/03/2015 at 19:29:48
Phil - No need to apologize for suggesting Rafa, I always had a feeling you were a huge fan of his.
David Hallwood
50 Posted 09/03/2015 at 19:32:39
As pissed off with Martinez as I am. I just don't like the revolving door approach to management. How many times have we seen it: big club or small, new manager wields the new broom, ships a few out, gets a few in.

New philosophy, established players sidelined, usually resulting in 'losing the dressing room'; sacked... Next!! And the carousel turns again.

As much as I cursed OFM, for his anti-football and massive inferiority complex towards the Sky 4, he did bring continuity, and glimpses of a new dawn.

It's the thought of the turmoil, being the new Fulham, that makes me cling to the notion that this season has been a blip (yeah, right), and that players who have played the right way for a number of years cannot overnight become bad, limited players... could they?

Brian Hill
51 Posted 09/03/2015 at 19:49:40
Klopp. He has already said he would like to come to England, he speaks English understandably, and has created good teams with little money. His team is moving up the league after a shocking spell, I would take him tomorrow, in fact, today.
Mike Hughes
53 Posted 09/03/2015 at 20:15:07
David #50

I get your point that you don't like a 'revolving door' approach to management.

In which case, will any arl duffer do?
If so, he's here currently.

Jay Wood
54 Posted 09/03/2015 at 20:08:30
Robin, I understand your desire in your OP to appoint a kind of visionary that can completely overhaul the infrastructure of the club at all levels and age groups to give us any chance of ’success.’

That said, I have some doubts when you write: "the philosophy of the appointment of Roberto Martinez was correct. A relatively young manager with an identifiable philosophy..."

I think it’s not simply a question of semantics when I say, personally, I don’t want a manager with a ’philosophy.’

Why? Because adhering to a particular ’philosophy’ - be that related to religion, politics, way of living, whatever, or in this case, football management - the danger is that you follow your philosophy with blind adherence.

That is, you only ’see’ the world, yourself, others and the sphere in which we live and work, through your ’ideas. You are blind to and exclude all other data that possibly disproves your ’philosophy.’

And on the evidence of this season, Roberto Martinez is displaying exactly that trait.

If and when RM departs from Everton, as he inevitably will one day, rather than appoint someone with a ’philosophy,’ my personal preference is to appoint a manager with a proven system, or even better, systems (plural) that adapts, adjusts and evolves to different teams and times, both within a season and within a live game.

Mike Hughes
55 Posted 09/03/2015 at 20:52:05
Because adhering to a particular 'philosophy' - be that related to religion, politics, way of living, whatever, or in this case, football management - the danger is that you follow your philosophy with blind adherence.

Exactly.
Well said, Jay.

Mike Hughes
56 Posted 09/03/2015 at 20:54:11
In addition to that, 'philosophy' is incredibly pompous in a football context. And only ever seems to apply to this endless tippy-tappy borefest.

Work to the strengths of what you currently have at your disposal.

Kevin Tully
57 Posted 09/03/2015 at 20:54:26
Both Brenda and Pochettino put hard work and pressing before anything else. That's the first thing we should be looking for in a manager. It costs nothing, and it doesn't matter what your squad is worth.

You will also find Everton look for a particular 'type' of manager - one who can work with Bill. That would rule out about 90% of decent prospects. BK will certainly have a reputation in football circles, you can decide what that may be for yourself.

Andy Meighan
58 Posted 09/03/2015 at 21:15:10
I'd just like someone who is straight talking who says it like it is after a poor performance. Not the shite this guy comes out with. Unfortunately it looks like we're stuck with him because I really can't see Kenwright sacking him.

My own personal choice would be Bilic but would he come? Anyone advocating Benitez needs to look long and hard at themselves especially after the disparaging remarks he made about our club.

And could you imagine the derby over there? All them cretins on the kop singing his name. He'd come out the dugout and wave to the twats. Do me a favour... I don't even think Kenwright would entertain this fella.

Keith Harrison
59 Posted 09/03/2015 at 21:50:23
Kevin Tully - nail on the head mate.
Phil Walling
60 Posted 09/03/2015 at 21:48:29
Brian @ 50. We'd have cheered him if as our manager he had said THEY were a little club. Of course, as it was he was a complete tosser !
Bill Gall
61 Posted 09/03/2015 at 21:31:20
Dave # 50 No supporter wants Everton to have a revolving door policy but in the same instance we want the chairman and board to recognize if someone they have hired is either capable or, like a number of people believe of Martinez, incapable to manage a team with the prestigious standing and history of Everton FC, and rectify it, no matter if it is after 6 months, 1 year or 5 years.

I agree that a manager should be given a chance but the problem that Martinez is creating for himself, is that he does not seem to be able to change or just make small changes to bring us out of this slump. And now with some of his comments, it has people scratching their heads to understand what he is talking about.

I have said before that with his poor team selections, positional play, players being played either in the wrong positions or out of form he seems to be on track to get himself fired, and the sad thing about it, is he is dragging the fine name of Everton FC down with him.

James Stewart
62 Posted 09/03/2015 at 22:09:59
Stubbs Jesus Christ what a horrible thought it would be to see that guy in charge.

@57 Kevin your right about work ethic being number one priority. No good side lacks it or a stern defence. Neither seems to be on the mind of The Confidence Trickster.

Don't agree on BK though. Can't stand him but his reputation in football and the media is actually very good. A lot of managers would come here simply because they are given time and decent funds. Big part of that is down to BK. Who I can't stand for the record!

Trevor Peers
63 Posted 09/03/2015 at 22:06:20
Kevin 57# I agree with your post entirely but not with the main point of the article. We certainly don't need another Martinez he's a unique failure who else plays with his ideas ?
John Francis
64 Posted 09/03/2015 at 22:09:15
Lennon or McClaren for me. Ian @33 its sad but I cannot argue with your appraisal of our club at this moment. Either of the above would bring back stability. My preference would be for Lennon for what it's worth.
Peter Barry
65 Posted 09/03/2015 at 22:30:10
It's patently obvious to all that the way Martinez wants to make Everton play is not working and what HE has also made patently obvious is that he is not going to change a single thing. That leaves only one decision that can possibly made and that is his dismissal anything else would be - illogical Captain. The longer this dismissal is postponed the more damage will be done and the greater the likelihood that Everton will be relegated and once that happens all bets on the future of the club are off.
Kevin Tully
66 Posted 09/03/2015 at 22:34:01
James # 62, I agree that being manger of Everton is one the safest jobs in the PL.

I also think BK is probably a bit of a laughing stock amongst serious football people. Did you ever read the extract from Fergie's book about the Rooney transfer?

Ray Robinson
67 Posted 09/03/2015 at 22:35:25
For those of you advocating Eddie Howe as a candidate (and I understand why), remember that he moved North to Burnley a few years back and then returned to Bournemouth for family reasons.

Personally, I suspect anyone with a philosophy - unless it is accompanied by a stash of money to realise it. A project where the training facilities are improved, an academy is set up, the ground is improved, no long contracts are offered to over 30's, and so on, is fine but actual football management requires a recognition that you have to work with and adapt to the resources at your disposal.

Patrick Murphy
68 Posted 09/03/2015 at 22:53:54
Ray # 67 - I think somebody wrote on this site that he returned to Bournemouth because his mother had died, but I don’t know whether that is true or not. But on a footballing front he has taken his club up a division and they are well positioned to gain promotion to the Premier League. There are a lot whispers on various betting sites and similar, but I would think this is a shot across Roberto’s bows rather than any concrete move at the moment. However if the board were to bite the bullet it would cost them a considerable sum in compensation and they would then look to somebody up and coming rather than a big earning high profile boss.
Ste Traverse
69 Posted 09/03/2015 at 22:59:22
I wanted Benitez when the current incumbent got the job 2 summers ago. I'm not even arsed he slagged us off when he was manager over there.

Rafa is a quality manager who has delivered success wherever he's been. I think he's the sort of manager we should be going after, he'd certainly take us up a level or two.

I'd have no qualms in seeing Rafa in situ at Goodison. But he's nobodys fool, so I doubt he'd work for a phony like Kenwright.

Ian Riley
70 Posted 09/03/2015 at 23:15:10
If Mr Martinez keeps us in the Premier League, our chairman will give him another chance. By November, if we remain near the bottom, he will go. The manager is not going anywhere until the season is over.

When you look back when our previous manager left we had many years of continuity. The chairman had a difficult call to make. He could have promoted from within, someone who knew the club and would bring new ideas but keeping the work ethic installed from the previous setup.

The chairman chose a man with a total different philosophy of football and style of management. Perhaps the chairman thought like many Evertonians we had gone stale, new ideas and motivation was needed. This is why I think he will be given another chance if we stay up. Implementing his ideas is taking longer than he thought; Work in Progress may be the statement in the summer..

James Stewart
71 Posted 09/03/2015 at 23:49:28
@66 I think it is the safest. Wenger is the same but that is only down to it being him. If Martinez had gone there and performed like he has here he would have been out the door at christmas. It was also one of the most well paid in Moyes's reign. Not sure what Martinez is on.

I haven't read it no but I saw some of the quotes. BK is a fool but in the eyes of the 'media' he is the boyhood fan chairman making ends meet without billionaire investors blah blah. You may be right in some football circles I'm sure we are seen as more of a cushy job where not much is expected rather than being a sleeping giant.

Paul Ward
72 Posted 10/03/2015 at 02:52:16
A good article by Robin that I fear it would be rely on hope, luck and time. I do agree with his concluding line "The only way that we can aspire to real success is to put ourselves at risk of greater failure." As usual on TW there are many good comments with many good proposals, but some totally unrealistic posts.

To see anyone seriously consider Benitez as a manager is a joke. Benitez has managed big clubs with moderate success but he has had open cheque books at each club and bought big named players but his defensive mentality has reaped little reward. I doubt if Rafa would even consider a "smaller club" as he once called us even if he was on the dole. The reality of our plight is perfectly illustrated by Ian Tunstead (33) and Bill Gall (39).

Harold Matthews
73 Posted 10/03/2015 at 05:33:43
James./ Kevin. A very successful self-made millionaire in the shark infested world of Showbusiness who owns several exclusive properties, has a beautiful wife and sits on the throne at Goodison Park is definitely smarter than average......and Kevin, no-one was more stupid than Fergie when he failed to understand the loan deal of the great colt Rock Of Gibraltar. The whole world of racing thought he was an idiot and it cost him dearly.
Peter Rathbone
74 Posted 10/03/2015 at 07:19:14
I say "DonÂ’t panic." Seriously, what would we get as a replacement to Roberto? ... just a mini-me.

Its not good to start ripping into the manager and players out of form prior to a decent run in Europe. Come on, boys and girls, remember who we are... we are Everton. Get back to basics; we are playing in Europe – we will not be relegated... and Roberto Martinez will turn it around.

We have been unlucky; the players are professionals and will do the job for us, I have no doubt. Mark my comments and look to them in 4 weeks time, then take another look back at the negative comments made.

Let's get it back together... we are Everton.

Eugene Ruane
75 Posted 10/03/2015 at 08:32:06
Harold (73) - " A very successful self-made millionaire in the shark-infested world of Showbusiness who owns several exclusive properties, has a beautiful wife and sits on the throne at Goodison Park is definitely smarter than average."

Well, let me say that I understand that 'in the times we live in' money is often linked to intelligence, but I for one don't buy 'smarter than average' for a second (certainly not my definition of smarter).

And there's plenty of dumb rich to back me up.

The well known 'entrepreneur' (ie: property dealer) 'Lord' Sugar is worth tens of millions, yet is undoubtedly as thick as mince (with the vocabulary of a turnip).

Donald Trump the same – a perfect example of mouth in gear, brain in neutral.

Katie Price couldn't beat a potato at noughts and crosses but has millions.

Or try West Ham co-owner, millionaire porn Baron David Sullivan – so 'smart' he dresses like a 1940s British Railways ticket inspector.

Guessing quarter-wit Joey Essex will end with a few mill too.

Even the late Jade Goodie (a cabbage in almost human form) made a couple of million (in fact in her case, like Mr Essex, idiocy made her money).

What they DO have is the love of a quid and in most cases appear prepared to do just just about anything (crush and/or exploit others, act the arsehole, flash their tits/minge, grasp, cheat, lie, etc) to get hold of as many quids as they can.

BK is no different imo.

As for his 'beautiful wife', well not really sure how that's relevant (although to be fair, she does choose our managers).

Whether or not she's beautiful, I suppose that's subjective but... getting less subjective with the passing of time (and personally, I wouldn't even go to the bog after Michael Winner had been in, never mind...).

[If only I was religious, I could have a good oul' gloat at all of them and quote Mark 8:36.]

Kevin Tully
76 Posted 10/03/2015 at 09:54:30
Harold, yes, BK is very astute when it comes to producing shows and he was also extremely savvy when it came to drumming up the money required for his shareholding in Everton FC.

If you think that qualifies him to take our club in the right direction, then fair enough, but I find stories like this very worrying:

It was August 2004 and we had just played Everton. Bill Kenwright was crying. As we studied the Everton chairman in his sorrow, he announced that he would like to make a call. Through his tears, Bill said: "I'll need to phone my mother."

"They're stealing our boy, they're stealing our boy," he said down the line. Then he passed the phone to me. "Don't you dare think you're getting that boy for nothing. That boy's worth 㿞m," said a female voice.

Doesn't sound very promising, does it?

Robin Cannon
77 Posted 10/03/2015 at 13:41:19
@Jay (54) - I think it probably is a question of semantics; I think every great manager has an identifiable philosophy of how they approach the game.

You're correct that there is a danger when maintaining a philosophy extends to excessive inflexibility. So, in RM's case, the reasonable philosophy of an attacking focused, with an emphasis on possession, approach is valid. An unchanging formation and an inability to vary the approach within the boundaries of that philosophy is the downside.

Flexibility within an overall ethos is perfectly valid and possible.

Mike Childs
78 Posted 10/03/2015 at 19:44:22
Harold, please explain to this novice the Rock of Gibraltar reference with Fergie also mentioned? Very interested and thanks to whomever answer as I believe more than I know.

Also, I have no clue what Rafa said hence my support. That I mentioned Phil is in no way an understanding that Phil was pushing him.

Schalke

up one on Real.

Mike Childs
79 Posted 10/03/2015 at 20:06:32
Schalke

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