A Question of Style

Those 2 players represented the importance of width on both sides of the field, to break-down teams who Â’park the bus.Â’

Not against the big teams he didnÂ’t. He shit himself and parked the bus every time, hoping for the best. What was his record against the top 4 again?

Baines stays back because he has to - firstly to protect the team from exposure on the counter attack, and secondly to protect himself. The amount of times before Christmas he would regularly charge down the flank towards the Park End expecting the ball in space, only to see Barkley or Mirallas turn inside into congested areas, was frustrating enough.

On the odd occasion he did receive the ball, heÂ’d look up to see nobody available to get on the end of a cross. ThisÂ’d result in him having to play it back inside, the pace would slow, and the momentum would be lost. Is it any wonder his trademark raids towards the oppositionÂ’s byline are becoming more and more infrequent?

How attacking is it to play with no fucking forwards at all on the pitch... in consecutive games... when youÂ’ve got some sat on their arse, watching on from the bench?

How is it not negative to have ambition that stretches only so far as Â’getting out of there aliveÂ’ in way too many games?

Well, I donÂ’t know what youÂ’d call it but it bored me into slight depression for the most part of 10 years and if I was going to judge a manager's style of play I would consider his whole time here as manager and not just his last season.

People were doing the same trick with Tony Pulis earlier in the season.

MoyesÂ’s record against the top teams wasnÂ’t great, thereÂ’s no denying that. It was one of his many flaws and it was the right time for him to leave when he did. However, he adapted his style for the team we were playing, something Martinez seems very reluctant to do.

I feel like falling asleep in half the games we play nowadays, I donÂ’t remember feeling like that a single time under Moyes. To me, there is no doubt that watching a Moyes team was more exciting than a Martinez one.

I donÂ’t disagree that weÂ’ve had to bear witness to some almost unbearable, turgid, displays of titanic tittery this season. However, I donÂ’t think this current dross makes former dross look any less...err...drossy. For me, the struggles of Martinez havenÂ’t suddenly recast the days of Moyes in some new halcyon light demanding reappraisal. Sure, we played some good stuff under Moyes for spells, but it was always interspersed with plenty of hit and hope, safety first shite. These pages were full of people screaming blue murder about it often enough. To now claim that the oft witnessed Â’hoof ballÂ’ was just a figment of our collective imagination, simply because Â’tika-takaÂ’ has turned out to be a bit crap, is taking things too far.

For what itÂ’s worth, I do agree that the players Martinez has at his disposal are much better suited to playing a counter-attacking style and have said so myself on a number of occasions. We have neither the craft nor brain to break down sides who come to stubbornly dig in, or the energy and endeavour to outpower teams who work their arses off to deny us space and time on the ball.

Stones and Jags no longer spend half an hour passing the ball to one another, very few 20-yard passes back to Howard and they run forward with the ball if the opportunity arises.

McCarthy joins in with the attack, Coleman tries to cross the ball instead of stopping to dribble the fullback and Lennon carries the ball forward at speed.

Unfortunately, as Chris points out, Baines has no left side support, is often faced by two attackers and can rarely get forward. The "No 6" Barry should be in front of him but he drifts inside to protect the centre backs. Things will only alter when we go 3-4-3 with the two wingers putting in a full shift,

People who still go on about the slow sideways and back stuff are beginning to annoy me. They yatter on about other managers sussing us out, which is very true, but itÂ’s about time they themselves sussed out that we have drastically changed our playing style.

WeÂ’ve been doing our best to quicken things up and the recent Lennon, Mirallas and McCarthy goals were the end result of lightning-quick forward passing movements. 18 seconds for a 65-yard six-man passing sequence starting with Jags and ending with a Lennon tap-in is 5 star football and, by the way, Kone was the striker that day and he played a vital role in the goal.

"Teams have sussed us out" seems to be the story under Martinez but I remember teams coming and parking the bus under Moyes. We struggled to break them down then and often would grab a draw from either victory or defeat.

Deulofeu was the game changer last season, coming up with vital goals and assists: Cardiff at home, Sunderland away and of course the cracker at the Arsenal.

We have always struggled to break teams down, in fact most teams struggle to score when the oppo has 10 men behind the ball. The players with the skill and vision to break down such teams we donÂ’t have. Silva, Nasri, Augero, Rooney, Ozil, Sanchez, Hazard, Fabregas, Oscar and Cazorla. They play for the big teams.

We do struggle to break teams down, unless we spend big on a Number 10 and get Deulofeu back I canÂ’t see that changing next season either.

Our much needed upturn resulted I believe from vocal dismay of the crowd and a revolt by senior players.

Martinez has made no secret of his possession at all cost philosophy thus re creating the turgid mish mash that failed him in the past. His grandfatherly attitude, specially toward our young players does them no service. Some of them are on the threshold of lucrative national or international careers. There are times when a vigorous kick up the bum would be more appropriate than being constantly told how phenomenal they are.

A glance through the life stories of some of the games greats makes one realize that their early managers were hard bastards. David Beckham still carries the physical scars of SAFs temper.

If he takes Everton on a year-by-year downward spiral he orchestrated at Wigan, I hope BK has the foresight to avoid the repeats of Barry Horne and as Sunderland were able, have the belief they are worthy of a manager on Dick AdvocaatÂ’s level. Until that day, the longer he remains in charge, the longer we will take to recover.

I think reading the posts here some people do have selective memories. MoyesÂ’s early years were quite dull and pragmatic but that's how it had to be. Moyes took over a really bad side and he had to try and make us hard to beat which he duly did. The bonus is those early years was making the top 4.

We had some disasters in the Moyes years notably the 4-0 drubbing by Bolton at home, Wigan in the cup game, not to mention the 5-goal hammering we had from Man City last game before Rooney moved. However, for the most part, the reaction to those humiliations were positive ones and we put in a performance next time round.

True, MoyesÂ’s big stumbling block was playing the so-called big 4 away from home (I do recall more than giving as good as we got at home against these teams) although he did have a very good record against Man City home and away. However, for the last few years of the Moyes reign, we did play some good football regardless of some peopleÂ’s opinions. Fiorentina at home, the Sunderland drubbing, RS 3-0 drubbing, to name a few but there were many others too as Arteta, Pienaar, Baines, Coleman, Osman etc attacked at will... we did have an exciting team and I canÂ’t remember too many occasions leaving the ground bored.

Fast forward to the Martinez era and to be fair he has done an excellent PR job on our record against the so-called top 4 in his reign. Apart from beating a piss-poor Man Utd team away from home (as did WBA around the same time) we have done nothing really of note against the others. A walloping at the RS, regular beatings against Man City and Chelsea (6-3 total humiliation at GP), the exceptions being Arsenal and Man Utd at home. Some will point to the entertaining game against Arsenal away last season but again we didnÂ’t beat them.

Most games this season have been so dull and that's not just me being biassed against Martinez, I have never heard so many people saying the same at the game. For all of this season, Martinez has seemingly been unable or unwilling to change the sterile tactics we employ. Even towards the end of the season, Martinez did not employ a faster style of play as some allude to; it just appears that Jags and to a lesser extent Stones decided to hoof the ball up the field rather than fuck around with it. We were still as dull as dishwater and a half empty ground at the final whistle, even when we were winning, backs that up.

Speaking to Wigan supporters, this is the Martinez way of football. We can expect more of the same next season and I guess more of the same pathetic excuses. Even allowing for all of the good footballers we have at the club – and we do have a lot in my opinion – I can see no silver lining. Martinez has managed to oversee too many players having a bad season for it to be a coincidence.

I would like to be more positive about Martinez, I don’t hate the guy like most Martinez apologists seem to counter arguments with, I just don't think he is good enough for top level football and if I had to make a choice between Moyes and Martinez then it would be Moyes every day of the week – regardless of the flaws Moyes had, I never had the impression that Moyes didn’t have a clue what he was doing, unlike Martinez, and I never ever questioned whether I should renew my season ticket under Moyes, like I did at the end of this season. I also never left GP under Moyes having had the joy and life sucked out of me and left wondering whether football would ever be exciting again.

The tactical setup was to compress the space between defence, midfield and attack engendering a more possession based approach. Kone was missing in those games, whilst McCarthy was much more withdrawn having been used as an enforcer in the oppoÂ’s final third to try and win back possession quicker.

We had abandoned the basic attacking precept that the ball needed to be played forward far quicker if we were to unsettle packed defences.

On a separate note, I disagree with Sam DayÂ’s inference that we played sparkling football on a greater frequency with Moyes. I admired the way Moyes had rebuilt the squad into a tightly knit athletic outfit capable of overpowering less capable teams on a regular basis. But against the big boys his consistently stubborn safety first approach ultimately scarred his reputation. Watch replays of the 4-4 Manyoo game and see how deep we fell back after we took the lead. Same in the semi against the RS and the final against Chelski.

Whatever may be said about them, their futures and fortunes are at stake and are, therefore, as dependent on the team thriving as any emotional feelings we, as mere Â’specciesÂ’, may have towards team performances.

Whilst most of us see the Martinez Â’wayÂ’ as boring, disappointing and leading only downwards, do they hold a contrary view or is it that Â’sold outÂ’ notices at most games is enough to convince them the public are very much Â’on sideÂ’?

I don’t think so because I have never subscribed to the view that ’the powers that be’ are so detached from their public that they are oblivious to the common feeling – after all, they watch the team just as we do!

So is the total absence of any comment on the Martinez philosophy indicative of Â’private concernÂ’ at the direction of travel? Watch this space...

I just donÂ’t know how he came to be part of EvertonÂ’s story.

I am sure you all watched the FA Cup Final yesterday. The team in yellow displayed all that I wish to see from an Everton side. A wonderful incisive passing display from players who are told to use the ball quickly, in two touches, and be positive!

Villa were lucky it wasnÂ’t 8 or 9. Fluid football at its best. My tip for the title next season if they avoid major injuries. Fabulous. Any chance we can pinch Wenger on a 10-year deal?!!

I think the bums on seats is a very important scenario for the club and if, as has been reported, we have 3,000 less season tickets sold for this season as opposed to last season, that will make them sit up and notice. If BK is as much a football lover as the fans are he surely canÂ’t ignore the silence of the supporters at home games or maybe he can.

If there were any moves afoot regarding the manager's position, we might have to wait for the 2nd anniversary proper of RMÂ’s tenure (June 13th?) but I donÂ’t think the board will be pro-active and will be happy to jog along, hoping they still have the right guy in charge.

IÂ’ve often heard him talk about how he wants the team to play fast passing football that opens teams up. I couldnÂ’t agree with him more.

The biggest issue regarding MartinezÂ’s Â’styleÂ’ is the great yawning gap between how he says he wants the team to play and what we see on the pitch.

Nick, hereÂ’s my tip for cheering yourself up re Everton. We played most of last season with unfit, demotivated players in various unbalanced formations, we defended poorly, created few chances/goals... and we still finished 11th! The teams around us will spend vast sums on ordinary players, we will spend a few quid on ordinary players and at worst we will stay mid-table and heÂ’ll be sacked. And if he gets his finger out and does his job... who knows?

Or you could sit in a darkened room with a bag over your head repeating the mantra, Â’He took Wigan down and heÂ’ll take us downÂ’ at least 100 times till you nod off.

I know what IÂ’d prefer to do...

As I challenged you and others this past week, name just ONE player whose game has improved under your heroÂ’s tutelage! Still waiting...

As we all know, Martinez talks a good game but rarely actually delivers. ThereÂ’s no actual evidence he will get his finger out... the general consensus is hope hope hope rather than any expectation and that, my friend, is just not good enough for Everton Football Club.

So he certainly isnÂ’t my hero.

My point is that he canÂ’t communicate what he wants to the players, resulting in the confusion and inertia weÂ’ve been watching, which for me, is far worse than any Â’styleÂ’ or Â’philosophyÂ’ issues.

Dave, I am not inferring that it is Â’OKÂ’. Martinez should be sacked for turning a top 5 team to a midtable one. My point about relative spend is an answer to those who are Â’certainÂ’ we'll go down. We wonÂ’t. ThereÂ’s plenty of teams worse.

Please read what I say.

YouÂ’re looking for bogeymen again Mate.

Nobody will show you where Martinez says "I want us to pass aimlessly, defend poorly, created very few chances, and score very few goals" ... but then you won't be able to point to the post where somebody actually accuses him of saying or doing any of those things. Even his biggest critics don't claim he gets thing wrong deliberately

Give this up. You have better things to say,

And vice Versa.

IÂ’ve been trying all season to find the words to say to people who want to compare the two managers ... and Daley does it in a sentence.

The Bastard!

Darren is right; you have written far better posts than this clutching-at-straws post.

Dave, sorry for any offence, I get a bit annoyed when I write something critical about Martinez (especially the part you referred to) and it is then misconstrued as me justifying his appalling performance this season.

People keep talking about Â’styleÂ’ and Â’philosophyÂ’, whatever that is. For me, it's about straightforward incompetence. He says he wants his team to play in a certain way; the team plays in a different, very poor way.

I canÂ’t comment on a player that Martinez has improved, because I donÂ’t believe heÂ’s improved any players .

I donÂ’t buy into the nonsense that Â’heÂ’ll take us downÂ’. He wonÂ’t. I canÂ’t prove it; itÂ’s just what I think. It doesnÂ’t mean IÂ’m happy, it doesnÂ’t mean I think itÂ’s acceptable. It isnÂ’t.

The fact that I didnÂ’t and donÂ’t believe heÂ’ll relegate us is a separate issue from whether he should stay as manager. IÂ’d sack him, for all the reasons I stated in my original post. For the reasons IÂ’ve stated for the last few months.

I promise to do better next time I post. But IÂ’ll maintain my argument that you can criticise Martinez for his dreadful performance, without thinking heÂ’ll definitely take us down, or without acknowledging the good he did last season.

You can't compare managers as they all prefer a different style and build the team to that style. The problem is with Martinez, his style is difficult with the players he has, and I do not think he will last long enough to bring in enough of the type of players he wants, so will have to change as his ideas seem to one-dimensional.

Which is largely why I was happy when the current manager brought them to the club and why IÂ’m frustrated that he canÂ’t get the best out of two good players.

Back to straightforward incompetence. .....

I also agree that Lukaku would have been a hit under Moyes... pretty similar to Saha really although not as good. Would have been interesting to have had a top-level striker in MoyesÂ’s team in his prime... the one thing that was missing for much of the time.

I have a feeling all is not well behind the scenes – that’s why I said earlier I wondered what Silent Bill was thinking. But then, I’m thousands of miles away and KNOW nothing!

I fully expect Cleverley to join us in the summer having watched his negative display in the Cup Final. He was quite happy passing square or backwards always taking the easy option.

And donÂ’t dare think about running beyond the forwards thatÂ’s definitely a no go area for RM.

But I guess it shows we all care and want the very best for our club.

Well, he was till Moyes got hold of him and had him running all over the place.

Still, Muthmir and New Bay both won, so allÂ’s not so bad in the world of sport!

The following players have improved under Martinez relative to where they were before he started working with them: Stones, McCarthy, Barkley, Coleman, Naismith.

Either way, at the point of being close to something special, we lost our two most creative and irreplaceable players. The only time I ever felt sorry for Moyes.

The Yak didn't do "running all over the place".

Not for Moyes; not for anyone.

Martinez "may" have learnt from this season and adapt but I think he is too stubborn, and he believes that his style and philosophy is the only way to play the game. Next season will show if he is right or wrong.

Barkley, Coleman and Naismith have all had a terrible season and gone backwards. Naismith even lost his place in the team.