Shambolic Everton end 2014 with third straight defeat

We looked sub-ordinary against an ordinary Newcastle side - Robles, McG and Alcaraz should not really be wearing the shirt, IÂ’m sorry to say. By McG, I mean St Aiden, that talented, frustrating misunderstood genius ... compared on TW to Messi and George Best.

Something better change!

Nice to see the new faces, but KoneÂ’s celebration was all a bit look-at-me when to a man they should realise what shit state of affairs weÂ’re in.

Alcaraz and Robles need to be sold in January, and quickly!

I couldnÂ’t agree more with you mate.

This is as bad as anything IÂ’ve seen over the last 20 yearÂ’s and thereÂ’s been some dross so thatÂ’s saying something isnÂ’t it?

The one thing I simply canÂ’t tolerate is this blatant lack of fight, we are passionless, thereÂ’s no tempo no desire, no closing down the opponents with any gusto..

Look at Burnley! Away to Man City and they claw back a 2-0 deficit, thatÂ’s proper fight and courage, yet we were meant to be chuffed at losing just to a penalty at City a few weeks ago and waiting until the 85 minute to force a save from Joe Hart.

Every Everton team that I have seen that has struggled and been bad has always at least fought with heart and passion.

ThereÂ’s always been a Dave Watson, a Don Hutchison, a Lee Carsley or a Joe Parkinson there to be a leader and to knock a few heads together..

This team is soulless, no leaders no characters, no man to want to stand up and take responsibility.

LetÂ’s be honest too..
We arenÂ’t even as good technically as we all want to believe..

Apart from Mirallas there isnÂ’t a single goal threat from midfield, as for Barkley?
Well if we had a bigger squad IÂ’d be loaning him out to a Championship club to learn the basics and learn that you need to be "up for it" every game first and foremost.

The rest??
Barry, McCarthy, Besic, no goal threat whatsoever, all of the same ilk.

McGeady?? Fucking not even as good as James McFadden, what a sad conclusion but a year on, itÂ’s true.

Pienaar?..Should have been put out to grass 12 months ago.
As should Howard, Dizzy and Osman..

Not one of them has done there job this season and that includes Martinez, Graeme Jones and Ferguson..

Where next? What next?

Perhaps some of us are even afraid to think about it.

In my view there can be no further defence of his abject performance this season. The chairman must sack him immediately. Appoint who? It seems to me to be irrelevant because I believe that right now he is the most ineffective coach in top level football. This man can destroy our club.

Howard / Robles
Distin
Alcarez
McGeady
Barry
EtoÂ’o

3rd goal Barks should have put his foot through it.

But weÂ’re told not to, arenÂ’t we. IÂ’m not blaming Robles for them.

I donÂ’t ever recall any other EPL club appointing a new manager that had just relegated their previous club, mind blowing decision by BK.

All a testament to how good PR can influence the gullible. BK you need to acknowledge your mistake and appoint a manager with a track record of achievement. Achievement in my opinion is not fluking a one off cup win (due in the main to a lucky draw) but rather a long term record of over achievement.

Another major problem is we have no leaders on the pitch. Once Newcastle scored I knew weÂ’d fall apart. ThereÂ’s no backbone, no fight, no passion in that team. Is that the managers fault or the players? I donÂ’t really know. What I do know is that thereÂ’s something rotten in Denmark.

My main concern is that it is so hard to see the seeds of a turnaround. I donÂ’t think iÂ’ve seen us look convincing for the whole 90 mins in a single game this season. Maybe Lille at home? Our defense is a mess and has conceded the most in the division bar QPR and our attack struggles badly against an organised rearguard. In short we canÂ’t keep a lead and we canÂ’t fight back when behind. Not ideal.

ItÂ’s very hard to see where points are going to come by at the moment and there is no sign of the manager installing the kind of guts needed. I think we will require an act of luck to turn this around...or a fresh start.

The confidence is clearly shot; as noone wants the ball. How may times do we turn back when in the opposite 3rd. It just invites the opposition to press up and our defense players are not comfortable with the football. Which is a fucking disgrace by the way.

Need a ugly win and fast..

The players need to look at themselves in the mirror as does the manager.
When LFC were awful BR told I as it was. But Roberto keeps looking for positives which are not there.

I thought today that he had made the changes needed but it wasnÂ’t enough.

We wonÂ’t go down but it is going to be a very poor season folks!

If I was BK I would fire him today and promote Eto to coach. It worked for Swansea with Monk. Eto certainly accomplished more than RM in his playing days and if you see him during warm ups actually tries to inspire the squad.

Coin toss between Jags and Neville on who least deserves the Captain Armband

Kone showed Lukaku what a centre forward job is, get ball, hold up play till mates arrive, show some movement and get in box ready for any cross.

We take 25 passes to get to half way line, even our counter attacks stop at the half way line and then go backwards. There is no confidence at all in the players, they really donÂ’t want the ball, they donÂ’t understand or like the system, and IÂ’ve never said before but they have lost faith in Martinez.

What has Besic done to lose his place for 2 games, not even getting on bench for one or on the pitch in the other, when we have McCarthy injured, Barry struggling, and EtoÂ’o a waste of space. It was crying out for someone to match Tiote and Sissoko and he never even got on.

Lastly we give Garbutt a game, the lad starts well, one or two decent crosses but by the end has been dragged down to the pathetic level of the rest.

Barkley... believes his own hype. If Man City want him, give us 㿊mil and heÂ’s yours.

We need to beat Hull and beat them well

Like all managers he has an ego, nothing wrong with that but if his philosophy is not working surely a wise man would at least modify it a little.

We have a talented squad, even Souness admitted as much, but when you play people out of position their form will suffer. Martinez seems to have fallen into the same trap as OFM. DidnÂ’t work then, doesnÂ’t work now.

We are terrible in defence, no confidence in attack, and we havenÂ’t got the squad to cope with the injuries, struggling to see where the next win will come from

We should forget about Europe now and concentrate on survival. If only it was possible to just opt out of Europe.

How are we going to finish around 9th?

We are most likely, in fact screw that weÂ’re a shambles, definitely going to concede over 60 goals!!

We are a truly awful side. Deep shit beckons.

Something is clearly not right in the dressing room. The players are very flat and donÂ’t appear to have any faith of spirit.

Still nothing to worry about Martinez in his ridiculous post-match interview vowed to stay true to his style, so we should be in the relegation dogfight by the end of January.

Lukaku looks poor, but the lad is playing in a team where his strengths are ignored and heÂ’s made to look useless by the slowness of the ball he receives. As for Barkley, itÂ’s simple, he has to guess where heÂ’s meant to be playing from one week to the next. Centre-midfield alongside McCarthy, then next game an advanced number 10, then out on the right, then on the left. ItÂ’s a real footballing education Martinez is giving him.

Oviedo ,and to a lesser extent Besic, have upset Martinez, there can be no other explanation, why two of our better players are rarely used.

Pulis is on his way, or maybe Warnock, or McClaren, God help us, even Rogers is better than Martinez. Not Moyes though, please not Moyes.

By 30 mins, we had begun to mentally and tactically "go backwards" and then maintained that mindset. The "red card" assault on Coleman was easily missed by the ref. It was a red, but wasnÂ’t awarded. (Sidenote here, I like our players NOT swarming referees for every single decision. BUT, I do NOT like them meekly accepting poor decisions without ANY response whatever.)

So, did we allow our indignation, our sense of injustice, to spur us on in a positive manner? Erm... no!

Then......... Barkley, looks entirely disaffected......loses the ball cheaply (OK so heÂ’s a very talented kid, and I accept that in "trying stuff out" that he MUST have "unsuccessful moments"...accepted). What I can NOT EVER stomach is the "casual jogging in the general direction" of an opposing player who has TAKEN possession of the ball. For comparison, Wayne Rooney ALWAYS fought like hell to regain possession. IÂ’m not seeing that passion from Ross.
DonÂ’t misunderstand me here, I am NOT hanging the result to blame around RossÂ’s neck. By comparison, however, look at the sheer force of nature currently being showed by RossÂ’s English homegrown contemporaries... Harry Kane... Charlie Austin... Raheem Sterling..... Ross mate, fire it up.

Roberto mate, fire it up.

And Graeme Sounness? Yep, summary correct. Play nice football when you can, just donÂ’t fart about: in OUR 18 yard box, within 35 yds from OUR goal.

And finally, Robles? No, thanks! John Ruddy? Yes, Please!

We are not even existing in SwanseaÂ’s stratosphere this season, we wonÂ’t finish about the likes of West Ham, Southampton, Spurs and maybe even the likes of Newcastle or Stoke.

The best we can hope for is 12th, the worst we can expect is a relegation battle which if your still embroiled in come the end of March then any club, regardless of its size can go down.

We have won a measly five matches, kept only three clean sheets and basically we have not turned in a totally stellar performance since the first 45 minutes against Arsenal...back in August!!

There is no direction to our play, no movement, no heart no fight.

We are going to very well to win 11 games this season..
Whether thatÂ’s going to be enough to fend off relegation who knows yet?

If we can’t beat a woeful Hull City team on Thursday, and they are matches what you just know MUST take three points, fail to do so then we WILL certainly be in that battle..

Hull are a bad team, their manager (much like ours) is under pressure, we have already failed to beat them early in December, a point at Hull will not be a good result.

ONLY A WIN

I can definitely see us going down and to be honest itÂ’s been coming for years with Kenwright in charge.

Mike, McGeady should have got shut – but I think Baines should have got shut first, instead of tapping it to McGeady.

I donÂ’t however agree with all the anti-Martinez sentiment. The guy is a class act and in patches we look world beaters but individual errors and injuries are costing us dearly and we need to get some points in quick style.

I donÂ’t think so. McGeady created space for himself, looked up and passed straight to the guy in front of him. To blame Baines is crazy.

I want Martinez to succeed and he made lots of changes, some forced by injuries, but it still didnÂ’t alter the style of play. All the goals were preventable as a lot have been all season, but they just carry on making them and the same players are picked time and time again.

Everyone must feel worried by the total lack of effort by the majority of the team and there doesnÂ’t seem any end to this at the moment.

Something has to give and once the supporters start drifting away, which they are, then we are looking at big problems which no-one at the club looks able to solve.

There were so many terrible moments theyÂ’ve kind of blurred together.

Maybe IÂ’m being too hard on Baines.

If the system you play is not suited to the players you have, why persist with it?
Why spend our entire budget on a goalscorer who cannot play with his back to goal which the system dictates?
Why play central players wide and negate our 2 most creative players in Baines and Coleman?
Why change the starting 11 EVERY game?
Why have Everton gifted more goals to the opposition than any other Premier League team?
How many over-30s who do not have 90 minutes stamina do we include in every game?
Why are our players so unfit in contrast to other teams?

Less soundbites more honesty Roberto, arrogance is great when you are winning but when you are losing and not accepting anything is wrong it surpasses foolishness.

IÂ’m so sorry, lads, I really am.

Hibbert struggled badly for pace against Man City, but his exertions have led to him being out indefinitely since. Obviously his body canÂ’t take it any more. RM has given him another year though. Same with Osman and Howard. Next yearÂ’s squad is goosed already.

IÂ’m not going to go through the whole team analysis bollox because we all know how bad we were today against another out-of-form team.

If there are any Roberto supporters left out there, then take a look at the stats that he was responsible for at Wigan; he used the same football strategy with that team and they haemorrhaged goals each season under his stewardship until he sent them down.

The man, his tactics and his coaching methods have to go... NOW!

I donÂ’t understand anything that is happening right now. It makes no sense. IÂ’ve never seen a manager just recklessly field people out of position every week like this.

Right now I wouldnÂ’t mind if Everton were like that "horrible Stoke team" of Pulis and I wouldnÂ’t even mind if we had that "horrible" centre half Ryan Shawcross..

That is exactly what wins you points and keeps you clean sheets, especially when you havenÂ’t got the talent nor the money of a Man City or Chelsea etc.

IÂ’d love Shawcross in our defence, a nasty, mouthy domineering leader, we hate him playing for Stoke because he is a very good defender, he defends thatÂ’s what a defender does.

Compare that to Bambi on Ice Distin or the other wasters, even Stones, quality on the ball but a big strong commanding defender? Hmmm..

I never thought IÂ’d hear myself saying this but at the moment I wouldnÂ’t say no to Pulis.

I donÂ’t however agree with all the anti-Martinez sentiment. The guy is a class act and in patches we look world beaters but individual errors and injuries are costing us dearly and we need to get some points in quick style.

He can stay with us now for years to come... yippeeeeee!

We currently have 21 points.
ItÂ’s not difficult, on current form, to see us still being on only 29 or 30 points by the end of February looking at the fixtures (incl games against Hull, WBA, Leicester and Palace).

We may win all 4 of those games but would you put your mortgage on it? If so, youÂ’re braver than me. WBA and Palace (both may well have new managers and the resultant up-turn in form by the time we play them). Then thereÂ’s the pressure put on our increasingly fragile and disjointed squad by the Europa etc.

The status quo is not an option. ItÂ’s stating the bleeding obvious but something clearly has to change:
- the approach (it would be a huge about-turn for RM to go more direct/with pace, especially in the light of his post-match comments)
- the on-field staff (loans probably but that doesnÂ’t necessarily address what appears to be poor attitudes and form from existing players. Nor does it address the tendency to try to fit square pegs into round holes.)
- the off-field staff (IÂ’m not calling for anyoneÂ’s head but if this doesnÂ’t turn around very quickly then someoneÂ’s hand may be forced.)

What a mess! It is a disgrace that this season now appears more focused on survival than glory.

This is not a knee-jerk reaction or herd mentality. The signs were ominous from as early as those opening 3 games with a defence like a sieve. "Oh, itÂ’s still early days," people said. That is an expression uttered in the autumn months and one that perennially irritates the hell out of me. Bollocks, the season starts in mid August.

In the meantime, sort it out Roberto: this is Everton, not some stepping stone on your fantasy career path. I hope youÂ’re here a long time but that is purely dependent on results. As is your future career, unless itÂ’s to be in punditry.

After today, IÂ’m dreading going to Hull, thatÂ’s a defeat waiting to happen.

Martinez is not a class act.

Calling for his head now isnÂ’t knee jerk, itÂ’s based on the long-term evidence of our own eyes.

Secondly, scrap the style of play that you have been trying to use. Playing tic tac from the back with Howard, Robles, Alcaraz, Distin, Jags will never work. Distin and Alcaraz are way too slow for this league now and passed their better days. Playing tic tac is not their game.

Jags can never pass and loves the boot up field. Barry looks tired, slow (yellow cards) Aiden hot and cold (mostly cold). We are really just not good enough. Replace the slow old dead wood and get a new goalie, a new fast, quick, hard-nosed defender and another forward in January.

Before the club said he was ill, it was going round that he had stormed off.

As a mate of mine remarked, "Let Chelsea and Man City have a one-off game to decide the title next week, pick the three to go down out of a hat and forget the whole thing until next August." And the more I watch players in the top tier with the inability to make themselves available for a throw-in, let alone try to trap a ball without kicking it out to touch, the more I suspect that malaise is affecting them too.

For me, this all started with the abject pre-season preparations and has got gradually worse, with the Europa League papering over the cracks. The past month has exposed how limited the current managerial team is both tactically and professionally in terms of player fitness and conditioning.

Individually, I still believe we have our best squad of players in 30 years, but key areas of the squad where not added to or replaced in the summer. We have lacked a top-class keeper for years; as a minimum, Howard needed serious competition, and we desperately needed leadership at the back. The current squad have no confidence or belief and the durability we had under Moyes has vanished. We lack leadership both on and off the pitch.

Something has to be done quickly to stop the rot; however, we need to find the right solution as well. The removal of Joe Royle in March 97 over a petty transfer dispute took 5 years to resolve. Roberto Martinez needs to be honest and start treating the fans with some respect and be frank and put his hands up to the current situation and take responsibility. (I hate Rodgers, but at least he has kept it real.) He then needs to do some work on the training ground and get our players up to the standard and fitness levels expected. If he and his coaching team cannot do this, then he needs to move on.

As it stands, I canÂ’t see where our next point comes from; however, we have to battle and find it quickly. I for one do not envy Bill Kenwright; however, I sense we are in for a pivotal month in the recent history of Everton Football Club.

Whelan said Roberto was going to be a great, great manager... maybe at a sports shop or at Poole’s Pie Bakery — but certainly not at a Premier League Football Team.

Won 5 Drew 3 lost 11 scored 22 conceded 34 so is the manager out of his depth at Goodison? All of my instincts say yes and we canÂ’t afford not to replace him.

What we need is a pragmatic manager experienced in EPL survival – not one dreaming about being in Barcelona.

RM has one to two months maximum, or to the end of the transfer window, to radically change the mood and the style of play, or weÂ’re in deep shit.

Bigger clubs than us have gone down, but these days itÂ’s harder to get back.

But if it is to happen now, Joe Royle till the summer... then Steve Clarke pinched from Reading would be good. Though Frank Rijkaard has his feet up and would surely jump at the chance to manage in the Premier League.

My main fear is that, whatever he spends in January, it will be as painful as most of his other signings. Deulofeu isnÂ’t going to solve anything.

For the record, IÂ’ve always been a Martinez supporter and even now IÂ’m still gonna back him cos, as yet, there is no other option. Talk of Pulis et al is appalling. I donÂ’t know if there is a rift between players and manager and IÂ’ve heard nothing to convince me otherwise. We have zero confidence and IMO that (with some awful defending some of which we got away with last season)may be the difference between us now and us last season.

Robles (nobody else)
Hibbert (does what it says on the tin: defends)
Distin (better than Jags and the only left-footed centreback on the books)
Alcaraz (again, through injuries)
Garbutt (Baines has been awful lately)
Mirallas (class)
Besic (bite)
Barkley (passing ability)
Oviedo (ability and pace)
Kone (threat)
Naismith (threat and workrate)

Subs:- Griffiths, Baines, Browining, Barry, Pienaar, EtoÂ’o and Lukaku.

This is going on the premise that most of the names IÂ’ve omitted are injured. But I honestly think that starting team can get a result there.

It doesnÂ’t help that Robles is new and constantly looks to give them the ball even when the opposition are close by. Our full backs as instructed push up and if we lose the ball trying to pass it out then weÂ’ve had it (2nd goal today). Coleman was pushing up as McGeady loses it and, 5 secs later, itÂ’s a goal as Coleman is frantically trying to get back. The system is flawed with the current defence.

All teams that slide down the league continue the same pattern and that is where we are now. The manager is playing players in different positions to try something to halt the slide. Playing from the back is killing us and is easy for the opposition. The goals today came from basic individual mistakes and bad luck.

Our friendly style of football has to stop now. Every attack against us is frightening – we have no shape. My biggest concern is the goals against, only QPR is worse. Sadly we went ahead today but never looked like winning, we don’t make it difficult for opposing teams.

If a change in style of football does not happen, results will not improve. Please, Roberto, seek advice and help before itÂ’s too late!

I want to see us back playing the stylish football we were used to last season. Obviously weÂ’re not getting Champions League but we can still turn this season around. The secret is not to panic... time to start winning games ugly if that what it takes though to get us out of this rut. ItÂ’s just silly discussing getting a new manager. ItÂ’s not going help the team whatsoever.

We have had a lot of injuries meaning we are having to play people out of position. We have had some shocking refereeing decisions go against us and players have been making far too many individual errors such as Barkley and McGeady today. I donÂ’t buy into all this negativity.

Hibbert is long-term injured, see my post above. Besic stormed off when he was left out against Stoke.

Oviedo is apparently not the same player since his injury and has fallen out with Martinez when told he was third choice LB. HeÂ’s probably played his last game for EFC.

Now, a year in, she realises he lives with his mum, signs on, and has kids scattered all over the place. Problem is, she canÂ’t kick him to the curb because sheÂ’s told all her friends how great he is. So she just has to stick with it and hope for some kind of miracle.

Did you see today, we kept on trying to go through their centre defence, with little 1- or 2-yard one-twos, and never ever got through. EtoÂ’o and Barkley just donÂ’t look wide, always trying the pass through the eye of a needle.

I recognise futile exercises, it is a sense that is fine tuned as a Evertonian. Some of the many conclusions arrived at tonight:

1) Distin is shocking and in no way can he relate to his managers need to play out from the back. Unless he is afforded 40 yards of space in possession, then we can see how uncomfortable he is and how the opposition know this also; thus, they press him into a mistake or a hospital pass to some poor recipient. It looks like heÂ’s been targeted.

2) Gareth BarryÂ’s game has fallen apart at an alarming rate. HeÂ’s getting mugged on a regular basis. Players know they can burst down the side of him with ease, usually ending in a card as he pulls them back or fouls them. He has waddled through the last five games.

3) Samuel EtoÂ’o is a luxury we cannot afford at the moment. He has a use as an impact player later on but not as a starter. When played in midfield, we need players who will also do the "dirty work", track back, and assist the left or right back. EtoÂ’o doesnÂ’t do the dirty work.

4) McGeady... the same as above. This lad is so powder-puff lightweight, itÂ’s a sin to put him on the pitch ahead of some players who are prepared to run through walls for our club. HeÂ’s a liability and a carried player. When we have our striker waiting on the halfway line and we see McGeady on one side and EtoÂ’o on the other with Ross pretty close while Newcastle are in possession by our area, then where is our midfield?

Who fills the huge gap between our back line and those four players named? This ensures that any second balls are almost always picked up by Newcastle and we stay under sustained pressure as we are not allowed to clear our lines.

I was happy with Garbutt today and felt encouraged by KoneÂ’s efforts. If he stays fit he may be our Kevin Campbell type saviour. Ross looks lost. Besic should be in that starting eleven. This would be on merit. The kid has done all that has been asked of him.

WeÂ’ve become a zebra with a limp. Triage is now taking place. Martinez! We would like to stay to the final whistle at Hull. If not...........

Martinez is a likeable guy but he hasn’t the first clue how to organise a defence. He’s got to go or we run the risk of going down – simple as that!

However, he did highlight how weÂ’re overplaying in the wrong areas - notably with respect to McGeadyÂ’s howler and the need to hoof rather than play.

And as Murphy said, Â’weÂ’re in troubleÂ’.

What a shitty Christmas.

I would have thought what youÂ’ve highlighted there must surely be obvious to the manager?!?

Now IÂ’m even more worried.

There were times today when the our 3 front midfield men, McGeady, EtoÂ’o and Barkley look absolutely knackered, they just couldnÂ’t go back and support the defence, and when they both (McGeady & Barkley) managed it, they gave two goals away. ItÂ’s a totally flawed system we are playing: too slow, players in wrong positions, no pace, old defenders, full-backs who have no idea when to go or stay, and Barry sussed out.

We are dropping like a stone into trouble, and have just lost 3 games to poor teams who were in their own bad runs. RM is picking players in their mid- and late-thirties who just canÂ’t move any more.

We can’t compete with other teams’ pace and running power. The first rule of football – it helps if you can run about. Barry and Eto’o could barely lift their feet in the 2nd half.

All funnies aside, this man is proving to be obdurate, totally inflexible and with an ego that could destroy our aspirations for success, investors, new stadium, and our foreseeable future.

Moyes was a CB, Stubbs was a CB. Both gone along with our defensive records. What next?

But when attitude and fitness are core issues, I suspect we are in uncharted waters.

I would suggest we started with The Echo but Prentice and/or Doyle donÂ’t have the bottle and The Echo remembers what Royle did to Phil McNulty (now of BBC) when he failed to follow the party line.

Robles: a poor replacement for Howard, who also needs replacing.

Coleman: Seems to have lost his way a bit this season, but his cross into the box for Kone to score was delightful.

Garbutt: Good first half, but fell away badly in the second.

Distin and Alcaraz: Both offer little at the back, because neither can dominate the centre of defence

McGeady: A liability waiting to happen. But a good pass to Coleman to cross for Kone to score.

Barry: Solid game.

McCarthy; Everton missed him in the second half.

Barkley: Also a liability, when playing away from home in a more defensive position. And didnÂ’t it show?

Kone: Played well, held the ball up well and scored a beauty.

EtoÂ’o: Has been poor since his double against Burnley some time ago; he fails to find an Everton man with his final pass and his shooting is erratic. This from a player who was once voted World Player of the Year. How things have changed...

Mirallas: Scored with his only real chance and canÂ’t ask for more than that.

Lukaku: Still looks troubled, and has lost his way and confidence.

An England v Burma friendly would be welcome right now.

They haven’t all suddenly become bad players overnight. The problem lies with the manager and his tactical ineptness / unwillingless to try something different. He needs to wake up and smell the coffee in the next week... otherwise – make no mistake – we are in a relegation scrap.

Bobby needs to tear a new arsehole into them. Alas I donÂ’t think he is up to the task.

The final straw was the Soton game, the dressing room lost. Everything since then is academic, and will continue to be. He needs to be replaced post haste.

IÂ’ll be interested to read his take on recent developments. I hope Roberto reads those reports.

The competition for worst player today was ferocious with McGeady, Barkley, Barry and EtoÂ’o all in strong contention. We desperately need the manager and players to get back to the basics of the game with simple defending, passing and shooting. Stop asking players to do things they are not comfortable with. Above all letÂ’s have some bloody effort from the whole eleven on the pitch.

That will put us on 41 and only in season 2002-03 has that not been enough to survive. But there is little margin for error and BK will be a brave (reckless?) leader to continue to entrust the entire future of this great club in MartinezÂ’s hands.

Whilst Tony Pulis may be the only known contender available at present, a short-term punt on him would seem to be a safer bet than the car crash that the Catalan presents at this moment.

I canÂ’t take this.... we are better than this.

Example? surely Baines, an experienced international knows when to put his laces through the ball and get rid, just because Martinez maybe says he wants the ball played out surely does mean every fucking time. Same with Howard, why roll the ball to Distin when he knows he will be put under pressure within seconds of receiving?

So many goals are conceded from poor individual decisions and mistakes, it’s almost comical. So, to me, it’s back to basics, defenders need to defend first and foremost; if this means putting it in Row Z, I’m fine with that – goals will come and luck must change at some point. I hope Martinez can pull us through, but with every defeat the challenge becomes harder, my worry is that he has been here before... and we all know what happened at Wigan....

AND if Mo Besic saw his arse and stormed out then IÂ’m encouraged that we at least have ONE first team player with some fuckinÂ’ fire in his belly!

OR Roberto has incredible powers of foresight to predict that Mo was about to be stricken by such a rapidly debilitating virus as a direct consequence of reading the teamsheet.

If we persevere with the current way of playing it is hard to see us getting enough victories / points to stay away from the lower reaches of the league. We have lost fortress Goodison and we are starting to concede regularly away from home. Martinez wonÂ’t turn it around if he continues to operate in the same way for the next five months, he might get away with keeping us in the Premier League but it will be touch and go and IÂ’m not sure my nerves could take it.

Add to that the rumour that Coleman may end up at Manchester United for 㿅m, it has been a pretty dire end to 2014.

Not that it is necessarily a credible source, but the Daily Mail is touting Steve McClaren – yes, he of the brolly!

Seamus is a shadow of the player he was last season. He has gone from being great to ordinary, so I canÂ’t see anyone offering 㿅M for him.

But perhaps that is why he has lost form... he is contemplating a move away from Goodison? I agree that at this moment in time he looks anything like a 㿅M player and he has had a really poor season by his own high standards.

IÂ’d love to see what those who castigated Moyes for his Â’negative approachÂ’, week-in & week-out, would have to say.

Maybe we should try for Mourinho next...

Look at the last minute, Coleman running down the wing in the 92nd minute rather than crossing the ball in, decides to just run into a Newcastle defender.

Barkley seems to have lost the ability to run, every time he gets the ball he just stops and loses the ball.

McGeady is completely useless; Del boy wasnÂ’t perfect but at least he crossed the ball rather than just passing backwards and losing the ball.

I don’t believe the players believe in Martinez anymore; you can see a lot of the players are deeply unhappy. I would try to bring in Bilic – a manager who actually cares about whether his team wins or loses.

The manager wonÂ’t be sacked either. Who would take over for a start? CanÂ’t see it myself.

The team is struggling, clearly and thatÂ’s saying something but we had 5 players missing today which didnÂ’t help.

WeÂ’ve had a very unsettled back four all season, various injuries in midfield and struggled for consistency since day one. This has now transformed us from a strong defensive unit into a very fragile one, but there are enough teams in the division that are worse than us so weÂ’ll be OK.

The concern is players like Barkley and McGeady who have massive problems with concentration and doing the basics right.

The manager needs to look at the system too because itÂ’s so easy to play against and Lukaku is shit with his back to goal and being made to look second rate. I blame Martinez for that.

Macca is the only player (aside from Besic) who dares make a tackle too and our soft centre is all too evident. Toughen the fuck up and stop making lazy mistakes.

Anyone else looking forward to Hull?

Now we have a team of old men who are bereft of any fight whatsoever. Our style of play now is a lazy, receive the ball and pass back or sideways to your nearest team mate, even if he is marked. IÂ’m all for fairness but to see EtoÂ’o in a scoring position kick the ball out because an opponent had gone down is the epitome of our competitive edge.

Some fans on this site think these old men will be back as new and our manager will turn it all around. Well, they wonÂ’t get any younger or braver and Martinez has stated he will not change.

Before it is too late, Everton need to bring in a manager with passion and feeling for this club again. A man who knows the club and players, and was considered last time was Alan Stubbs.

"We now have the stats and the bonuses for this month P7 W1 D1 L5 F6 A11, Clean Sheets 0; if it hadnÂ’t been for poor refereeing decisions, cold weather, a few slight disagreements with most of my squad, etc etc, the results would have been different.

"I have, therefore calculated how many points we should have got; we should have won 6, and drawn with Man City, so weÂ’re paying out bonuses on this basis.

"Just to make it clear, if decisions go against us in January, and they are due to the likes of refereeing decisions (i.e. nothing to do with me), we shall be paying January bonuses on the same basis as for December...

"Oh, and Sam, I know the 𧶨,000 net that you get for December is less than youÂ’re used to, so for January IÂ’m introducing a bonus for all the squad for each backwards pass made.

"(PS lads, donÂ’t worry about the punters: theyÂ’re like sheep going to the slaughterhouse! Oh, that reminds me, I wonder what that leak is like on my ceiling?)"

Someone tried to explain our current problems as though asking our players to play effective possession football is akin to asking someone like me to play exclusively with my Â’swingerÂ’. How does that work??? Professional players should be capable of passing to feet over 20-30 yards easily. When they fail to do so because they rush it or seemingly lose concentration, then I blame the players first and foremost.

Whatever the specifics of the managerÂ’s particular tactics, it will boil down to pass to your own players, clear the ball from danger areas, keep possession but strike when the opportunity arises.

Confidence seems to be the problem that the manager canÂ’t solve at the moment, with too many inconsistent performances throughout the squad. Never the easiest thing to do but a true test of management ability.

No fight, no passion and apparently now (according to Tim HowardÂ’s interview in the Sunday Times today) we are a sophisticated team who lead the way in the stats as the team who works the ball from box to box the most... That means fuck all when it allows the opposition to casually regroup as we fanny about passing the ball sideways over and over just for the sake of it.

IÂ’ve been a supporter for many years now & I have to admit I canÂ’t remember feeling this frustrated at the mediocrity of our current performances, particularly as this group of players should be capable of so much better.

Today was an ideal day to expose Newcastle for what they are; a team that gets swatted by good sides and who possess the worst centre back in the Premier League in Colloccini and yet they waltzed through our useless defence time and time again.

I watched the game today with a group of mates and they kept asking me: "WhatÂ’s happened to Everton, why have they become so crap lately?"

"Fuckin’ embarrassing" – my answer was – "Martinez is chasing the Barca job so the tiki taka style of football that he’s deploying is in his view, above criticism, and when he eventually gets sacked he’ll blame the players for not being good enough to follow his master plan."

We need at least an average goalie and a few gobby, aggressive bastards really quickly, or weÂ’ll be in a major Â’negative spiralÂ’. People keep criticizing a Joey Barton or a Cahill but we need some men and characters to change the dynamic. Trouble is, I donÂ’t see our manager stooping to such a pragmatic place as its against his philosophy and he wouldnÂ’t get on with that type of character.

I think weÂ’re all in a bit of shock after the promise and hope of last season but the manager was lazy with regards to signings, contracts and preseason. We could end up paying a very big price.

BUT they really arenÂ’t a cataclysmic departure from our "mid table security" of the last decade, are they ?

Face facts, last season really was in many respects, bloody great... So, this season weÂ’re back in Europe and have looked solid there. Every other EPL club in European competition IS expected to drop a few places in the PL compared their previous season. But not Everton ?

Then letÂ’s look at some evidence.>Defensive injuries THIS season... Oviedo is not yet fully recovered after a NASTY leg break, despite indomitable attitude; Stones is still recovering/just lost full fitness AGAIN; Coleman began season with injury and has really only just returned to solid fitness; Hibbert... when WAS he last 100% fit?; Jagielka is almost ever present regardless of injury or discipline but missed a few, now missing again; Distin is still the fastest player at the club, has had a few niggles this season too;Baines you can virtually put him on the teamsheet without even thinking, but NOT this season.

THEN in terms of other "defensive concerns" this season

Barry, a couple of knocks; McCarthy, likewise; Gibson, no surprises here; Besic, his first season in the PL; Osman (and letÂ’s be bloody honest as "Defenders" go we really are stretching here, but given the extensive foregoing list, not exactly completely out of the picture) carrying a few injuries this season.

What IÂ’m saying quite badly is that if ANY of the "media babies" were going through our "Injury Crisis" the media would be CRYING out for 50M>100 to be spent upon interim cover.

TBH, I expected us to drop a shade or two this season (being in Europe)

We have been shit recently, but not FFS some of you lot need to grow a thicker hide and grow up. We really have seen far worse with NO excuse.
FAR worse.

Name me ONE club who could be better placed with ALL our enforced defensive alterations this season ?

Go on.......ONE ?

I still think that we really have stunk, and far too often this season, but thatÂ’s not completely RobertoÂ’s fault.

CanÂ’t blame a man who canÂ’t/hasnÂ’t been able to retain a consistent defence, nor blame the available players.

(FFS a nearby clubÂ’s current excuses are that a) they sold one player for a club record payoff, b) the England manager INJURED their other striker by rushing him back into training 24 hrs too early... and that was MONTHS ago and the "tender flower" hasnÂ’t "bloomed again" since)

What lessons has he learnt from taking Wigan down? There will be plenty "I told you so"s come the end of the season.

Defensively they are a shambles, even with 10 men behind the ball. Don't laugh but only QPR have conceded more goals at present. Seems like every game is a mountain to climb even when they score first.

The Hull game is the first of the New Year and and any repeat of the last 3 would be unacceptable to even the most patient of fans.

It may be synchronicity but I have just heard Tim Cahill commenting on Australia’s forthcoming Asia Cup match. He said, and I quote: "I don’t care how we win as long as we win."

I like that – a sense of urgency.

Can someone tell me who had the captain’s armband, please.

He does need to adapt to more pragmatic tactics, select players who will put a shift in and battle for results. That means that Barkley, Lukaku, McGeady are not right for the line-up. Our team against Hull will be a strange one, but subject to fitness I would go with: Robles - Coleman - Stones - Alcaraz - Garbutt - Besic - Barry - Baines - Naismith - Kone - Mirallas.

Even the Official site is full of comments calling for Martinez's head. The delete button must of broke at Everton HQ.

The players are trying to play the system A, as said here no system B, so they cannot be blamed for trying to follow instructions.

I do not pretend to be a manager or even pretend to know tactics but even I can see what has happened and will happen in every game: the opposition will push up to stop the short passing, forcing the ball back or long punt up the field to be given away.

My concerns are having a relegation dog fight (which I do not think we would win) the older players who have played well in the past should be used as subs or to help the younger players but not so many in a team that it slows it down even more.

My biggest concern is the good young players will look kindly on a big money move away come January and end of season as they will see no hope of Everton pushing for top four, and will not want to be in mid table to relegation fights each season, it’s hard enough to retain the top players with the money on offer from the millionaire clubs anyway. We could well end up with the older players and journey men brought in to replace the leavers.

One big hope is if the new ground is in anyway a possibility the last thing the directors will want is a poor performing team in a relegation battle, I would like our Manager to stay but he has to alter and have plans A.B & C when things go wrong, and boy have they gone wrong.

I always thought I was not a very positive person and found the manager’s positivity very refreshing, but the way the team are playing and the tactics employed, it has become farcical to the point of annoyance when he is so positive in the many defeats we have had. HereÂ’s hoping we turn it around, but not being very positive we will.

Does he have or will he be given any money in the New Year to shore up our failing, over-the-hill defence? The award of renewed long contracts to ageing and very average players will figure on his indictment if he is sacked.

Robles
Coleman
Stones
Browning
Garbutt
Mirallas
Besic
McCarthy
Baines
Kone
Lukaku

This team would give us good energy and we need to start by trying to keep clean sheets and nick the odd goal. The likes of Barkley and McGeady are not trustworthy enough and should be used sparingly from the bench.

The only bright spots from yesterday were Kone and Garbutt. For me we need to start pushing higher up the pitch and playing in the opposition half instead of our own. This is why Barry would not be in my team as it all seems to stem from him and he hasnÂ’t got the legs to press higher up the pitch.

IÂ’m not expecting any change though as Roberto seems to be a stubborn one-trick pony manager whose tactics have been found out and are easy to play against.

The old saying that "Fitness makes an average player look good and a good player look great, but lack of fitness has the opposite effect" has never been more apt. I have never seen an Everton team as unfit as this one. Martinez must get them fitter or do one.

For the record, I was one of those who was livid when Martinez arrived. I was also hugely apologetic last season when he felt like the Messiah.

Where does that leave me now? I'm not sure sacking him would help, partly because A) We're still 6 points off the relegation places, and B) Who would take over? C) Changing managers mid-season rarely has the desired effect. And D) I still think we'll make the top 10 – which was my prediction at the start of the season anyway.

Last season now feels like a 'season in the sun' for Senor Martinez, one which surprised all of us and raised expectations. Normally after a long-term manager leaves, the next incumbent struggles (Man Utd/Moyes?) so I'm trying to look at this as second-season syndrome, let him keep his job and reap the rewards in the next few years when he turns it around.

Didn't Moyes struggle with us initially? Ferguson at Man Utd almost fired after a year? History says managers need time... and we all know how important it is to know yer 'istory.

Barkley has talent to burn, but he's a lazy fucker with a bad attitude from what I've seen lately. Defensively we play with about 9 men at times. Lukaku another one.

I wonder if that was a load of tosh, and we just are not as fit as we were?

The margins are very fine in the Premier League, it has been noticable when a player has come back from injury, just how ill-equipped they are, due to that small percentage that match practice brings, and when you consider how many guys have been "rushed" back, to our detriment, you can see how important it is to be fully fit.

But what Everton have lost during his time at the club is the team ethic: defend or attack as a team win, lose or draw as a team. Roberto doesn't say that he prefers to highlight the positives of individual players and inflate their egos to make them feel better about themselves which leads to those individuals seemingly believing that they are doing OK when as a team it is obvious they are not doing OK at all.

We have had less talented squads in the recent past who knew their strengths and weaknesses and who compensated for any shortcomings with hard work. That is what the team needs right now a willingness to work hard for each other and run until they can run no more, this allied to the ability within the squad should be enough to gain the necessary wins in the second-half of the season.

If the team fail to re-discover that work ethic we might be in far more trouble than many would like to believe. Let's hope that the team can become a team in 2015 and not a collection of individuals wearing the same coloured shirts.

On another note, I see that Mourinho has said that there is a campaign against his club from the officials – he wants to have a go at managing Everton to see how it feels to be on the wrong side of decisions in every game it plays.

However, I am not in the Martinez Out mob. Martinez is the best man available on our budget to take us forward.

People need to see the long-term gain here and stop focusing on the here and now. (Yes, yes, I hear you "the here and now is what gets us 3 points". But this season's league is over for us, we will end up in no-man's land.) This season is a write off, but no worse than OFM's 2nd season though!! Then we had that amazing 3rd season under OFM.

Martinez will learn from this season. Do we want another team to profit from his education with us? Remember when SAF nearly got sacked in his second season at Man Utd?

IMHO the blame is more with the players than with Martinez. He didn't tell McGeady to be useless. This all started with a lack of discipline shown by one of our more senior players, Distin, if he was playing at a club with more funds (like a Man Utd under SAF) he would have been released then and there. The players lack the heart, the desire etc, not Martinez!

I'm Rambling here, but basically if anyone thinks the Wally with the Brolley, Roy Keane, Tony Pullis, Neil Warnock, Ali McCoist or any other manager out of work could do a better job, then they are deluded!!! They're out of work for a reason and I'm not sure many would come highly recommended by their former clubs.

Martinez, on the other hand, would get another job in a heartbeat! Martinez is not the problem here! it's the players and it all stems from Distin's lack of discipline. End of.

As many people have said, our fitness isn't there and teams are going to be all over our passing game. They don't even have to hit us on the break anymore.

Leicester – 2 points dropped.
Arsenal – 2 points dropped.
Hull – 2 points dropped.
Spurs – 3 points dropped.
Palace – 3 points dropped.
Newcastle – 3 points dropped.

Liverpool – 1 point won
Sunderland – 1 point won.
Even West Ham and Burnley managed to equalise before we forced winners.

At the moment, we are not able to hold onto a lead. This is because of all this fannying around at the back. When we fall behind, it's clear we don't have the ability to pull the game back. This is because of all the fannying around at the back.

"Keep possession, we must keep possession!" Teams know when they push right up on us, we will panic and give the ball away. Distin and Jags are not Beckenbauer and Bobby Moore. They don't have the ability to bring the ball out of defence. Once teams go in front against us, they know we will just fanny around at the back, and make no attempt to get forward with some urgency until it's too late.

One other thing: Southampton went on a losing streak of 5 games until we played them. Newcastle were on a 4-game losing streak until yesterday. Who's next? Probably West Brom!!!

Who's next???? Everton, of course.

BUT, they made sure we were fit BEFORE the training balls were introduced. We had to be fit to start with. I don't think Everton are fit and our preparation is amateurish. Worse than amateurish, actually.

Which other top 5 team would ever dream of appointing a man who has just got a team relegated with a defence that regularly conceded 5 goals or more to average opposition?!!!

Joe Royle personifies Everton – its history and traditions, his Dogs of War could play a bit and put it about when they had to. If Stoke want a battle, Joe is up for it. If we play the RedShite, Joe makes sure those players know the score. No fucking prisoners.

Mr Nice Guy Martinez needs a mean streak, uncompromising no fucking passengers. The team resembles Roberto – an easy touch, bit of a pushover. Time for the manager to get some support, a word in the ear: "This is Everton, mate... don't fuck with it. Don't fuck with the supporters."

Kenwright, you need to look after your man; he is drowning... get your finger out and throw him a lifeline. The players have a job to do and the powers that be need to make sure they fucking well know the shite they are serving up is unacceptable.

If they are not good enough, fuck them off. Robles, McGeady, Distin, Eto'o, Hibbert, Osman, Pienaar and Barry. Not fit to wear the blue any longer. Sad but true.

Thanks and so long.

They can’t defend, they can’t fight, they can pass and some of them look like they can barely run any more... Yes, I am looking at you, Barry and Barkley – jogging around like a 50-year-old.

27 points from the last 75 points available to us is the killer statistic and any board worthy of the responsibilities invested in them reading that statistic alone should be demanding the manager’s head. He can’t turn things around now; it’s too late and the team are in free fall.

The key question is: "Can we afford to take the chance of not sacking him and giving a new manager the opportunity to make changes in the transfer window?"

The Echo reported that Gray watched the Newcastle defeat alongside former Everton team-mate Peter Reid and said: "I have strong connections with the club and I sat and watched the game with Reidy and I can tell you that neither of us was impressed with what we were watching."

http://theexecutionersbong.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/why-a-lack-of-pressing-is-costing-Everton-dearly/?

Shows how "soft" we’ve become. And its awful.

Southampton's first goal came from a corner, which wasn't a corner, but I suppose could have been a penalty. Stoke should have been down to ten immediately before they scored. Cisse shouldn't have been on the pitch yesterday after that cowardly elbow right into Seamus' face, before he scored the equalizer.

Poor excuses, I know, before anybody puts me down, saying referees don't defend poorly or try keeping possession of the ball before giving it away, etc etc etc!!

The team selection is irrelevant. The system is truly mad and is creating utter chaos. I'm really curious what it is those that think Martinez should stay see in him?

I see no redeeming qualities whatsoever. The man can't even organise a basic defence. Every good side is built on one.

I have to agree with you on fitness, the players look like they are blowing with 20 mins to go and in some cases opposition players are just waltzing past some of ours like they are not there. I know that Steve Tashjian left at the end of last season and below is a snipit of a Greg O'Keeffe Q&A in the Echo in May where it was noted how much he will be missed.

Steve Tashjian recently left – how big an impact do you think his departure will have on the team?

Greg: He will definitely be missed. Tash is a functional conditioning expert at the top of his game. He's a popular guy around Finch Farm and I was lucky enough to see first hand how effective his methods are.

I also wonder about Stubbs, who was working a lot with the defence last season; has his departure affected things there?

Brilliant piece.

Before the game, Pardew explained how we play and how he would exploit our dodgy defence. Seems we don't frighten anyone any more.

They also showed more running power and had more up front!

"Is he gone yet?"
"Is he gone yet?"
"Is he home yet?"

Like most, I thought Robles (Joel, Robles, lets call the whole thing off) is poor, Baines has lost the plot, McGeady probably never had it and Barry is on a personal campaign to get as many yellow cards as humanly possible. Kone actually impressed as did Kev. Really not sure about booting out RM, but think that his style is crippling us at the moment.

Change or go, Roberto.

Do they care? Who knows. Only those in the inner circle will know who is really hurting. We seem to have a glut of players near end of EPL life and a few that have got in a rut. We need inspiration and/or a kick up the arse asap.

Hussle our opponents when we don't have the ball, and clear it when we have the opportunity in an old fashioned manner - ie, lump it away.

Once we do those two simple things to clear the ball and win the ball, THEN you pass the ball about.

Plan B? Yes, we need one and what is it? Well the inherent problem with playing possession football, is that the opposition can sit back and watch us play in pretty patterns, going nowhere against 9 or 10 men massed on their 18-yard line, so you have to let them have it a bit more, or learn how to draw them out...

We do neither – we come up against two banks of four all the time... we struggle to break teams down... we're easy to play against.

Simple.

That does, however, lead to the question: Who was the last team to feature in the Champions League having been relegated to the second tier of domestic football? If indeed it has ever happened.

I actually took a few positives away from yesterday. Yes, the defending was abysmal, but how can any one expect anything different with Distin paired with Alcaraz. I donÂ’t know what Dennis Lawrence does with the defenders on the training field but maybe the answer is, to bring back someone like Waggy or Weir. The same same as Wenger did a couple of years back when he brought Steve Bould back into the fold, as a defending coach when Arsenal were leaking goals for fun. WeÂ’ve seen how these specialist coaches can work at other clubs this season, namely Sherringham coming in at West Ham to help answer their lack of goals of goals from last season. Yes, theyÂ’ve got better strikers now but I wouldnÂ’t discount the influence of a Sherringham there also. Of course weÂ’ve already got big Dunc coaching, but I think our problem isnÂ’t scoring, itÂ’s clearly the back four who have looked like they would be better suited performing in Billy SmartÂ’s Circus than an EPL side. I donÂ’t think itÂ’s any accident neither, that Distin always seems to be in the starting 11 when we concede a sackful of goals. If weÂ’d have had settled pairing of Stones and Jags I donÂ’t think weÂ’ve had conceded anywhere near as many. With the amount of fixtures you canÂ’t rely on 2 players alone. Luckily Distin and Alcaraz are out of contract in the summer. WeÂ’ve got the promising Galloway and Browning coming through, but I think we need an established defender in immediately in the shape of Winston Reid, Ron Vlaar or Ashley Williams, all of which are out of contract this summer. This needs to be addressed now. I could go on about the goal keepers and lack of quality wingers but I canÂ’t see us making major changes in the next window. So IÂ’ve just mentioned the area which is of most concern to me.

The positives I took were the inclusion of Kone, Garbutt, and moving Baines further forward. What puzzled me was that Baines wasnÂ’t playing wide left and was playing more centrally. While IÂ’d normally welcome this as a bold tactical move, as has been previously discussed with Baines moving into the centre of the park. I canÂ’t believe this would be done when Miralles was sitting on the bench, Martinez opting instead to play Samual EtoÂ’o more as a winger. Surely EtoÂ’o would be better served playing off Kone, or vice versa. Had Kevin Miralles started (giving us more natural width) IÂ’d have welcomed Baines playing in this role.

ItÂ’s very grim at the moment but once we have Stones back to full fitness, with an additional quality centre back coming in next month. I can see us turning the corner. Of course IÂ’m beginning to have doubts Martinez seeÂ’s any problem continuing to ask the inadequate Distin to play the ball out form from the back, so who knows whether weÂ’ll address the bleeding obvious.

Love him or loathe him, Roberto is an ideologue. He lives life by certain (fixed) ideas and if he lets them go, one feels that he feels that he has let everything go. I must say that, like Moyes, he doesn't come across as being the sharpest tool in the box. If his methods had led to remarkable success, then that would be one thing. The relegation with Wigan was a headline - underneath that, was an abundance of cavalier and poor performances, usually leading to defeats and a lot of conceded goals.

Until now, I have given him my support. However, the lack of coherence in his decisions is unacceptable. Why are Pienaar and Oviedo on the bench but the hopeless and hapless (I'm being polite) McGeady on the pitch, even for one game? There are many more unanswered questions, not least of all why players are consistently being played out of position (when it consistently and spectacularly hasn't worked).

As a chairman, Kenwright needs to get answers to these questions and base his next steps on those answers and his judgement of them. I fear he is too weak and timid to do that - unless his self-preening popularity is questioned, of course.

What is currently going on is quite unacceptable. Martinez's post-match interviews are unequivocally cringeworthy. He says in the above interview that we were controlling the game in the second half, and elsewhere he says that there were some 'incredible performances' yesterday from us. There were - but not in the sense he means. We look totally lost - Baines had no idea where he was playing yesterday - with individual players trying to impose themselves frantically (Mirallas, Baines, most notably).

Robles, McGeady and Alcatraz are simply appalling acquisitions, simply appalling. They have no place in the PL. But it comes back to what I said at the beginning of this post. Martinez is an ideologue, and he would rather lose football matches than admit he is wrong.

Everton deserve more.

If Martinez stays, which I hope he does, I hope he has a good look at his back room staff because they don't seem to have a clue what's going on or how to solve the problems.

In the whole of last season we conceded just 39 goals, only Manchester City and Chelsea boasted a better record.

That's the problem right there we are defensively shite and playing Russian roulette in front of our goal with the tippy tappy stuff. Teams pushing up high and getting at our back line is killing us.

However, it seems that these fears were justified.

2nd worst goals against in the league, only QPR worse than us incredible...........

I wouldn't.

I think at this stage we can still attract a decent manager, leave it too long though and that may not be the case - heaven forbid, but can just imagine if we are in the bottom 3 with 10 matches to go, then we'll end up with Pulis or something similar.

Wigan may have been defensively shite and cavalier but we are just defensively shite. At least if we were cavalier our play might be more acceptable.

In my other post I’ve argued the merits of bringing a defensive coach in, but I think it’s probably more to do with the players, as exemplified by us looking sound when Stones has played with Jags. It’s no coincidence that Stones is the most comfortable on the ball. So unless we sack Martinez we need to work within that system, like last season. So we urgently need to bring in an established defender this window, because the promising defenders (Galloway & Browning) aren’t ready, and (Distin & Alcaraz) are too old and shite, plain and Simple!

Passing from the back is fine in its place, when it is done well and when there is movement in front of the passer. There is no movement, no taking of responsibility from players who have previously done this, hence the passing is 'poor'.

Our problems are running far, far deeper than the players' ability to pass, the 'system', tikiiiii-takiiiii, or whatever the phrase of the week is.

In any walk of life, you ask yourself what you do when you perform well, what you do when you don't and then compare the difference. That difference between this season and last season is huge!

The bigger problem is Martinez doesn't even think we need to strengthen in defence. Didn't he say the younger lads are adequate and he won't be buying in January?

Phil, could you find out from the pie-eaters the difference between when he avoided the drop and when he didn't?

All redundant, as we won't get relegated. If you disagree, spare me the vitriol and go to the bookies. The odds are tempting but you'll lose your money.

From the day Martinez was rumoured to join us, I posted on here asking why would a Top five club possibly hire a manager who just got his team relegated. But as far as I concerned, his top five position last season buys him time to sort this. The alternative of removing him might seem like a sort term fix, but how often has it actually improved in the long-term for a club? It certainly didnt for us when Joe left.

Everton have become far too nice under Martinez .Whereas under Moyes we were acknowledged to be one of the hardest teams to play and score against, we've now become an easy touch with little passion.

You just couldnt see Martinez passionate and angry in the dressing room after some of the rubbish performances this season. He seems a man in denial and needs to be replaced before our nightmares become a reality.

ERRORS LEADING TO GOALS THIS SEASON (PREMIER LEAGUE ONLY)
Everton - 10

Sunderland - 6

Liverpool - 6

Newcastle - 5

Crystal Palace - 5

West Brom - 5

Aston Villa - 4

Leicester - 4

Arsenal - 4

Tottenham - 3

West Ham - 3

Manchester City - 3

QPR - 3

Hull - 2

Southampton - 2

Manchester United - 1

Burnley - 1

Chelsea - 1

Stoke - 1

Swansea - 1

Listening to Garbutt on the OS, his performance in front of the camera is as accomplished as on the pitch. I think he could be an even better prospect than Stones. LetÂ’s see.

We really do need to get together players playing well who are up for the fight (Garbutt and Besic included, among others) and build a team, a formation and a shape around them. We must give Rom support and encouragement; he can help to get us out of this crisis (I dare use the word, yes). HeÂ’s a class act who is out of sorts.

I think there is more fear instilled in this current Everton set-up than there ever was in previous regimes good or bad, last season was a getting to know you period for the players and incoming staff and things went well so nobody learned too much about how players and staff would react in a crisis.

Both sides of the divide have found that out this season and it hasn't made pleasant viewing and it has also raised many more questions about the methods of the manager and the abilities of the players.

DM for all his faults managed to keep the players upbeat and sent them out with a simple mantra work hard and you will win points. I know that many of us wanted more from Everton FC but perhaps this season we have tried to run before we could barely walk causing the current loss of confidence and belief. Please god we get a decent result at Hull City and follow it up with a few good performances by the end of January.

I donÂ’t think the differences between last year and this necessarily lie with Everton. As others say, other teams have worked us out. ThatÂ’s not hard but it is coupled with the "one size fits all" approach Martinez seems to have. Moyes again was often criticised for focussing too much on the opposition but it seems to me Martinez does not do any homework at all, just turns up. See GarbuttÂ’s astonishing comments for confirmation of that. It is no coincidence that every team we play turns up with the same game plan to counter us. Even Spurs! Effing Spurs outworked us.

I think this rot first started with the hammering by the RS last year when Martinez was like a rabbit in the headlights and seemingly couldnÂ’t move a managerial muscle to change things when every Evertonian I know could see what was being done to us.

Far more stubborn and limited than Notes ever was, just dressed up in a different way to fool our chairman.

By the time we get anywhere near the opposition goal, they have 9 or 10 men behind the ball, two banks of 4 lined up and simply wait for us to struggle to get through them, or round them.

There are few other teams who play like us - City, Chelsea and Arsenal are the only others as I see it, and they have much better players than us - like it or not. Arsenal have struggled a bit this season, but the other two are doing just fine - because they have better players than us.

We have Barkley running headlong into 3 defenders at a time, Lukaku with his back to goal because the area of play is way too small for him to face defenders and run at them (which is what he's good at), and he struggles to hold the ball up (the thing he's shit at).

Martinez seems to think that this will work - it won't. We're piss easy to play against because of it. You can all see it, I can see it, and the players can see it, hence their lack of confidence, perhaps not in their ability, but certainly in a system that simply doesn't work unless you have Diego Costa, Fabregas, Hazard etc, or Toure, Silva, Lampard, Aguero etc all tapping it about.

We have Mirallas, and I'd say he was about the only player who can handle the system, which is evident in him being the only (apparently) decent player on show of late.

We need to learn to do other things, like playing on the break, sometimes going long (yes, long to Lukaku), letting teams have the ball more so they come out of defence and leave gaps for Lukaku, Coleman and Mirallas to run into. It's not fucking rocket science.

The area of the pitch we play in, in an attacking sense is tiny, so compressed around the opposition 18yd box it's unreal. It's also not working.

Everton had played 19 Won 5 Drawn 2 and lost 12 scoring just 10 and conceding 30 with 17 points on the board. We have been here before unfortunately and this was also after having had a good season - some things just don't change do they? Everton won their following four league games so let's hope we can do the same thing in the coming weeks.

But we didn't go down. I'd accept 15th now, wouldn't you?

So will RM have the flexibility to change the pattern? What we need now is results like gritty 0-0s away and ugly 1-0s at home, with the players scuffling and fighting for every ball. No team can succeed without a strong defence and ours is the second-worst in the division.

We also need a PL-quality goalie and a commanding CB in January but tbh I can't see any of the above happening.

Half the team looked like they werenÂ’t sure what they were meant to be doing. They couldnÂ’t even keep the ball. Conceding possession and playing on the counter is a perfectly legitimate tactic (plenty have beaten us doing just that), but it wonÂ’t work if the ponderous EtoÂ’o and McGeady are the outlets. And what exactly is Gareth BarryÂ’s role right now? Several times Newcastle broke away into a good 40 metres of space between our midfield (camped ineffectually as ever around the opposition 18 yard box) and the centre backs. Surely Barry is meant to sit back and fill that gap?

Martinez is likeable, ambitious, and has earned time to get things right for his first season achievements. For all our struggles I wouldnÂ’t bet against him guiding Everton to victory in the Europa League. However, the concern is that last seasonÂ’s league exploits are looking worryingly like the work of a David Moyes-purchased and coached team given a temporary confidence boost by an optimistic and passionate new boss.

Moyes left Everton with its strongest squad in two decades; the team that took to the field against Newcastle (4 relegated Wigan alumni, 3 players who ought to be considering retirement, 1 league debutant, 1 Aidan McGeady, and two full backs enduring the worst form of their careers) is simply not good enough, and IÂ’m not convinced of his judgement in the transfer window to put it right.

Worrying times.

’Half the team looked like they didn’t know what they were supposed to be doing’

Looking more and more like a Martinez trademark

(1) we are not fit. After a shite pre-season, we see players puffing and panting after an hour. Surely if itÂ’s pass pass pass and pass again the ball is doing most of the work. We are not bursting forward at speed because we are not fit.

(2) Players are playing our of position to accommodate RobertoÂ’s Barcelona mindset. Naismith, Barkley and EtoÂ’o are not wingers and yet time and again we see them there.

(3) players are not suited to the way Roberto wants us to play. Lukaku cannot play with his back to goal. He canÂ’t trap a ball or hold it up. HeÂ’s better playing on the shoulder of a defender and running on to a through ball. Distin and Jagielka cannot play the ball out of defence. Hoofers the pair of them.

I said before on a difference thread that we are an Aldi / Lidl Barcelona. We promise much but the quality isnÂ’t there. ItÂ’s boxed well but inside it ainÂ’t so good.

The last thing I lay at Robertos door is why when someone shows some decent form they are dropped to the bench for his favourites. Besic had played well in MaccaÂ’s absence. When Macca came back he was dropped even though Barry was playing shite constantly. Garbutt is the same after the Europa he was dropped again while Baines was playing shite.

The players are decent players in the main but are being asked to play in a system they donÂ’t understand or being played in positions they are not right for. Unless Roberto has a road to Damascus moment and admits its not working I fear we will be sucked in to a relegation battle. Either Roberto changes or Billy will have to make the change for the clubs sake. I thought Roberto might be the one to take us forward but with him stuck on an iffy Plan A and no sign of a Plan B or C ice just canÂ’t drift on and see where he takes us because that may be in the Championship.

I also remember him including 'flair' players like Andy King, Martin Dobson and Duncan McKenzie in his early games and, of course, he also inherited Bob Latchford.

In his first two seasons we finished third and fourth before sinking to nineteenth in a twenty two team First Division. The team was in fifteenth position when he was sacked with gates down below 20,000 in 1981.

I often thought his biggest sin was his dour Black Country accent and who now remembers Jim McDonagh being in goal for his final game?

We've had worse !

The proof is in the pudding now even a blind man could now tell you McGeady, Distin, Alcaraz, Robles and yes Samuel Eto'o are not good enough for this team now let's see if Martinez has got the nouse andthe balls to do the necessary!

All were talked of last time round but I think our leader will go for McLaren or Pulis.

What think ye ?

"But he hasn't got anything on," a little child said when he saw the Emperor...

Reacting to RM's statement that some of the players played "magnificently", this quote from Ian Wright: "I watched the game and sometimes I had to leave and it was then that this 'magnificent' play happened, because I didn't see anything magnificent."

Do you think they listen to 5 Live?

It's not the talent it's what the bloody managers do with it that counts !

Secondly, why was EtoÂ’o on the left and Baines in CAM? It was Luke GarbuttÂ’s Premier League debut and he sticks a player who has hardly ever played there. If he had switched Baines for EtoÂ’o I wouldnÂ’t have minded as much. EtoÂ’o isnÂ’t even left footed.

Thirdly, stop moaning at referees, Martinez. Sure Cisse shouldnÂ’t have been on the pitch but, for GodÂ’s sake, get a grip. YouÂ’re worse than Houllier.

LetÂ’s have a look at the goals. First goal: Why was the cross allowed to come in? Surely you should close down the cross? Then, who was marking the two at the back post? Then Robles gets sucked to the ball and Coleman just drifts away from Cisse. Most likely too scared to be elbowed again.

The second goal reminded me of something that I see watching Wrexham. Firstly why doesnÂ’t Robles catch it? Then Barry makes a crap clearance. Then Baines should just get rid but decides to give the ball to McGeady and then gives it to their player. Then weÂ’ve got 5 men around the ball and the ball slowly goes past Robles.

Then the last goal. ItÂ’s okay to make a mistake but to casually jog back is annoying. If that was Rooney he would have after that. And what was Alcaraz doing? So if you think he shouldnÂ’t get the sack then you must be mad.

I know lots of people donÂ’t rate him but Tony Pulis would get some organisation back and get rid of the dead wood. We are carrying to many passengers . It looks like a hard long winter ahead!

I'd love a manager like that now.

He is probably our best ever player.

There was something quite gentlemanly about Wood - not sure what.

A few weeks ago a lot of their fans were calling for his head using the same arguments a lot of us are using now e.g. Tactically stubborn, clueless, no plan B, over reliant on certain players, bad buys etc... But now it looks like he's slowly turning things around and the self belief is coming back.

Rodgers stuck by his guns and is starting to see a mini revival. Why can't we do the same?

Oh and now we shouldnÂ’t complain if we get screwed 2 weeks on the trot by crap/biased refs, which cost us points, possibly 6 pts. Martinez should go nuts and get fined if thatÂ’s what it takes to get some decisions which weÂ’re entitled to.

Your not mentioning it was wonder boy that showed rubbish control and lost the ball to Colback, who promptly scored! Again, the managerÂ’s to blame.

I appreciate its open season on Martinez but letÂ’s talk sense.

Liverpool's average age must be at least 6 years younger than ours.

If last season we played some of the best football since that era, then this season we are playing some of the worst. This side is a couple of defeats away from a serious crisis!!

Reports today about Man Utd in for Coleman for 㿅 million??Put yourself in his shoes?? Away like a rocket!!...

Mike, I think Martinez tried to change the system from the Stoke game to the Newcastle game but as one of the players said, they didn't have time to practice it (less than 48 hours).

I think Baines will stay in MF and Barry might move into the defence to be replaced in MF by Besic etc... They will need to practice this over the next few days to get it to work. Hopefully, Kone will start again.

Hahahahahahaha! Brilliant, Colin!!

To praise Martinez for managing a team that finished with our best ever points total since the Prem started, then shout for him to be sacked after less than half of the next season is absolute madness.

If he can somehow get the players to produce more cohesive performances then hopefully good results will follow, but if those results don't come quickly and often he will have to be relieved of his duties for the good of the club not because of some personal dislike of the man.

Hull is virtually a must not lose match and Man City at Goodison is always going to be difficult given the tightness of the title race, West Brom will have a new manager by the time we play them, so it isn't going to be easy to steady the ship - but somehow he has to find a way of taking points from those games otherwise the pressure will grow to intolerable levels. Perhaps his style of management isn't suited for the dog-fight that we could become involved in and although I don't think we will fall out of the division - it gets more scary looking at the table after each passing game.

Martinez has frustrated the hell out of me this season Patrick. I think he totally underestimated the challenge this season by being away in Brasil for too long, not preparing pre-season correctly, messing around with the shape of the team, the demands of European football etc...but also not being prepared for an uncanny amount of injuries to so many key players. I don't think he was prepared for the expectation and desire of the fans that this season had to be even better than last. He never had that pressure at either Swansea or Wigan where survival was seen as an accomplishment.

However, I believe he is a young, talented manager who probably feels a bit overwhelmed right now but I honestly feel he will get things right sooner rather than later and will come out of this a much better, stronger manager.

Added to the list of injuries here, poor form, confidence and rumoured in-fighting, the next couple of months looks like some kind of perfect storm for us.

So much for a dry January.

I think he was an applicant for the job with Martinez. In fact if things get any worse and Martinez gets the sack BK could consider Alan for the top job. It would be a cheap way out to buy Stubbs contract at Hibs.

McGeady giving the ball to Tiote at such a place and point in the game is nothing short of criminal, and I for one would avoid selecting him for the foreseeable – he surrenders possession too often and fails to work hard enough or effectively at retrieving the ball.

Besic is a solid defence biased midfielder, who I think having struggled to adjust to the pace of the Premier League, is getting better and is worth a run in the first team. My back four would be Coleman, Stones, Barry and Garbutt, with Baines ahead of Garbutt in midfield trying to make up for the loss (as that is what the situation is) of a potent Pienaar.

The case for Oviedo should not be ignored but I fear he is a bit lightweight for the fight we face at the moment. The rest of the midfield would be (if fit) McCarthy and Barkley, with Mirallas, and Kone or Lukaku up top.So many of these guys are nursing nagging knocks though.

Just keep McGeady away from the first team squad Bobby lad. He is a fucking liability we canÂ’t afford.

Thank god someone else has seen the light.

Ask Michael to do the research. I was harping on about Slaven Bilic three years ago at least!! I've always thought that this guy is what we need.

The reason why? He's a football human being made from a footballing block of ice. In terms of his team, he takes no prisoners. He has no favorites. If you are out of form or playing the ego maniac then you may as well have a half severed leg off the somalian coast with you're only company being a great white!

He is for me the archetypal Mr freeze.

If I had to choose between Tiki Taka Latina and go for the jugular Eastern European style football then the gospel according to Mr Modric and Mr Bilic will do me every day of the week.
I liked this guy but like everyone else, it didn't take long to suss him out.

Football is like cooking. Whatever you cook do the simple things correct and you wont go wrong.

PS Paul Tran, are you referring to the statos when talking about the pie-eaters? Reason I ask is that you could be talking about fellow Evertonians, in which case if you are, then don't, because these guys do an awful lot of research for us on this website that I and people like you can't be bothered to do. They do this for the love of our club and to me they can eat what they like because at the end of the day they, will still as big as me as in they love EFC.

To close, I would like to hear 5 reasons why Bilic would be worse than RM

COYB

"But there are reasons for it and none of them are the style – it's how you apply the style." Roberto Martinez tonight in the Liverpool Echo

Looks like the manager has decided to throw down the gauntlet to his players it will be interesting to see how they react in the next month or so.

Wiki says, "Known to be a big fan of music, Bilic relates his teams motivation to such, often encouraging them to listen to inspiring music before and after games. He went on to state "I cannot do my job without music, I need it to relax."

I assume he'll fire up the current team with a hearty chorus of "Send in the Clowns" before the game.