Brilliant start by Kone horribly squandered

IÂ’m cabbaged if I know.

We can definitely win this (but I said that before the Southampton game).

Collect at the game....a freebie.

Phil 07949651710

Alcaraz is always a liability and then to have him together with Distin is a recipe for disaster. Who knows!

That felt good think the roof tiles just lifted!!!

The ref has a whistle, play the game man!

Martinez signings McGeady, Barry and Eto'o make this the least Moyes like XI I can recall.
Effective?

A clean sheet with Joel was never likely.
We have to improve if we want to take something from this.

Why oh why oh why...??? If you have the ball and there's nothing on, drive forward – do something positive!!!

Initiative totally squandered.

Less encouraging is Baines in midfield who, alas, looks a bit lost but he has a good record against Newcastle so hereÂ’s hoping. Distin to blame for the goal and Barry ahead of Besic is a mystery.

There seems somewhat more sharpness about us.

We need to start winning games, just look at clubs down there like Burnley fighting and fighting.?

If we fail to win today or at Hull then you struggle to see where the wins are coming from in the near future..

There we fuckin go!!

McGeady and Robles shit name it 2-1!!!

Fuck off Everton..

We could go down this season guys we really could.

We ARE that BAD!

You can't even make excuses today about players missing, they were all the on Boxind Day and the Southampton debacle.

No matter who the personnel is or what formation they use, they just cannot do it.

This is a very worrying Everton team, we haven't exactly got the hard men to drag us out of this relegation battle have we?

Roberto will I am sure pay the price if this carries on as you can't sack a whole team.

If those players think they are too good to go down they are fooling themselves.

What bets on Roberto taking us down and we win a cup?

I feel for Oviedo. I don't blame the lad if he has kicked off. 33-year-old journeyman and McGeady ahead of him is laughable.

If you seriously think this team of characterless wasters could win a Cup then I'd ask you what you'd been smoking lately.

The team of 1995 was limited but packed with leaders of men.
This team is spineless and frankly are bollox..

3-1 Newcastle thanks to the "best English player for years" hahaha.

We are fucking totally awful.

No fight no spirit and no quality.

Today, McGeady's casual approach has undoubtedly cost us the game, giving the ball away on the edge of our area, leading directly to the second goal, and then Barkley, well, what can be said? Another poor, poor display by players being found out big style.

When the media announced yesterday a Premier League manager had been sacked, I was hoping and praying it was Martinez. Sadly it was Neil Warnock.

Terrible in defence, no confidence up front and we haven't the squad to cope with the injuries.

Very bleak outlook. I'm really struggling to see where a win's gonna come from.

More importantly not only does the manager pick the team but the manager is meant to fucking MOTIVATE the team and looking at this bunch, there's no motivation, no hunger, no desire.

Barkley will never be the player Gerrard is because Gerrard, hate the count I do, is a winner and he despises losing.

Barkley just doesn't seem to be able to say "right fuck this I'm taking over this game" he is not even the player Harry Kane is, infact he's nowhere near the player Kane is.

What's happened to Coleman this season? .. He has been woeful.

Mind you he's not alone, with the exception of one or two of them, they have all been woeful.

MARTINEZ OUT, NOW.

Sometimes it makes you wonder what we'd have in the team going forward if Mirallas was not there. Slag him off, yes, but he's still a goal threat and there's not too many in this team.

Martinez out for me – he hasn't a clue. We need a big clear-out this summer. 72 mins gone and Newcastle have far more movement and pace than we have. I kid you not – we are in a relegation battle... just you watch.

Bollox display laden with mistakes – a perfect recipe for losing more games.

We have become the easiest team to beat and they simply don't look like it matters. That complacency comes from a Manager that accepts defeat.

31 goals conceded. Gutless from the top down.

I share the concerns about RM but today was all about the players, it really was. I am ashamed of them.

I know some people will disagree, but I think it's OTT for people to be calling for Roberto to go.

Martinez out the sooner the better, we were playing shite last year the only difference was we were scoring last minute Mirallas free kick winners and getting away with murder at the other end, this year we are not so lucky THE MANAGER IS SHITE!

if Everton get relegated, I think the manager and players should play for no wages next season till we get back up into the Premier League.

What a spineless, gutless, inept performance. Seriously we look like Wigan! Pathetic... no movement, no pace, no invention, no leadership, no direction. This is totally shocking and we can only point the finger at Martinez.

Garbutt played well but Robles can pack his bags now and fuck off back to Spain and take that one-dimensional Spanish waiter with him. Hull City and Man City next... I donÂ’t fancy our chances playing this shite.

Our goals against is very worrying. We have a goalkeeper who can't even catch a fucking ball and defenders who just let people waltz through them. A midfielder who looks like he's running in treacle but won't be dropped and a 28 million pound striker that can't jump or keep hold of the ball. All a bit fuckin clueless.

Time to fight it out Bobby. Sort out our defence first and foremost and forget your tippy tippy shit. It isn't working.

Anyone who asks Distin to play football isn't in the real world.

We cannot hold winning positions (have dropped more points from there than any other team) and we also seriously struggle to break down teams that are defending in numbers.

We are lacking intensity, determination, movement, organisation and desire. To be honest I can't think of any positive qualities shown in our performaces this season except some of the counter attacking in the Europa. Teams have worked out how to play against us and this run of 3 points from the last 15 shows that.

Either Martinez has to change things up or he has gonna have to be changed himself.

Fair enough, they play stupidly around the area when they should just put it into the crowd and that needs sorting because itÂ’s cost us big time again.

He changed the team today and there were some positives

Garbutt looks the part
Baines looks promising in midfield and maybe thatÂ’s the future
Kone looks better holding up the ball
McCarthy is a miss but in tandem with Baines looked good in the first half

On the negative side

Distin is finished at this level and once Stones and Jags are back maybe 3 at the back is an answer
Barry is not at it since his injury and Besic is a better option
EtoÂ’o is a luxury in this team
Barkley is not worth his place as a starter at the moment
Neither is Lukaku unless he plays off Kone

Fucking pissed off but strangely encouraged. Must be the brandy and ports.

That is what you get when you try to make a P.L. Team out of free signings and cast -off’s.

That doesn’t excuse unsuitable tactics from the manager by the way.

TodayÂ’s lack of effort and creativity will no doubt be met with a cheery smile and a hug for the players; not the rocket they deserve. Martinez will blame Â’individual errorsÂ’ undermining an overall good, positive approach, instead of understanding the wider problem - his players are in a comfort zone, fearing no repercussion for poor performance.

Unfortunately, that positive outlook is in his nature. Where we all see a virtually constantly crap McGeady, he dwells on the very occassional moment of skill. Ditto for Kone. Indeed, such focusing on the positive is how we end up paying top dollar for a striker that has zero first touch.

After a manager like Moyes who focused on the negative, I can easily see how such an approach would initially be uplifting. No more. Now our squad need a dose of reality.

ThatÂ’s why he needs help. Now. Before it is too late. He canÂ’t see the problem because he is the problem.

Replacements? No. I think we need a co-manager. Someone to inject steel where it is needed. Someone that prioritises unfashionable elements that complement tik-a-taka, e.g. scoring from a set piece, defending, leadership. Someone mature enough to understand how to complement a young manager. Someone who knows the club.

Who?

Joe Royle. Set loose the Dogs of War once more.

Lukaku is a top class player, and you see today the same problems without him on the field. He is not being utilized properly.

From what I've seen this season I honestly think Roberto has lost how to assemble them into an effective unit. He obviously has his philosophy but either the players can't do it, don't want to do it, don't understand it or it just doesn't work and their confidence is now shot to pieces.

Some of our defending in particular looks like something out of the Keystone Cops, we can't break down teams once they pull everyone back to defend and unless Roberto can re-assemble the squad with a new approach he has to go now as this simply isn't going to work as it is.

Is it me or have we also gone a bit sh*t since Big Dunc got more involved? I know he has massive support from many Blues but I wouldn't let him within a mile of any of the players, at any level.

Who would I have in? God knows.

Roberto I expect you are a really nice chap, but time has run out.

Last season the backbone of the team still had the Moyes fight, fitness and defensive nous in them from the previous years, now Martinez has coached that out of them. We still have no pace, can't counter anyone and have become the easiest team in the Prem to play against.

I still think Lukaku can come good but as we can see, he is not a back to goal striker. Too many players who were outstanding let season are piss poor this season, whether or not that is down to Martinez is anyone's guess but I do this his time may be up and how long should we leave it!!

I think we'll beat Hull. We better had. There were, as Chris 93 says, some strange signs of hope today. Or perhaps that's just the Christmas weed....

Add to that, Everton don't put any pressure on the man with the ball - and RM moans about other teams not letting us play attractive football. For fuck's sake, we let teams do whatever they want to us.

Add to that again, I said about two years ago that Naismith had put in one of the worst performances in a blue shirt I had ever seen. Well, that record has just been obliterated by our very own Aiden McGeady. I'll say it so it's official - that was the worst I have ever seen an Everton player perform in a meaningful match.

And one final bit, for those getting in on the "Doctor Everton" theme that we seem to be good at maintaining: Newcastle had not won any of the past 10 final matches of a calendar year.

Losing those two, the game after that is Man City, then alarm bells won't be ringing they will be totally fucking smashed.

That will be a test of Kenwright's loyalty if we are still in a perilous position by the end of January.

OK thatÂ’s about it on the plus side. On the minuses: too many players out of position again (Baines, EtoÂ’o, Barkley), too many clearly past it (Distin, Barry), too many not good enough in the first place (Robles, Alcaraz, McGeady) and a few who look like theyÂ’ve completely lost confidence and/or the will to fight (Coleman, Lukaku).

The defence was pure keystone cops, all three of their goals were horrendous defensive errors and there was a point at the end where I have never seen players so lost at sea. When we had the ball, for the most part it was the lethargic sideways crap we have become used to.

We scored two good goals by quick incisive passing and that should be our blueprint. Surely Martinez can see that once the opposition are set, we have nothing like the ingenuity needed to break well organised sides down? I loathe Souness, but he was spot on about this on Sky, we canÂ’t play this way because we donÂ’t have Messi, Iniesta and Xavi, we have Barry, Lukaku and Naismith.

Our options are very limited in terms of personnel but it would surely do no harm to give Besic and Oviedo a run, both look to have more spark in them than most of our current lethargic bunch. And the decision to spend our entire budget on Lukaku and not bring in a quaility defender who can organise things is looking very foolish right now.

Baines in midfield, both wide and Central looked the part, as did Garbutt on the left

Kone is better than Lukaku holding up the ball and maybe they could play together.

At times in the first Half they played three at the back with Three in central midfield , McCarthy and Baines pressing with Barry holding in front of Alcataz and Distin

IÂ’d like to see Besic McCarthy and Baines playing centrally with Garbutt and Seamus wide. Pace and bite and creativity( see that Baines pass for Mirallas) with Three central defenders but not Distin. It would be a lot more solis too.

All of a sudden there are different options I believe.

But maybe now isnÂ’t the time to raise things like this

I think Barkley needs to improve drastically if he is to become what RM and some pundits believe he will. I don't think he is an instinctive player who knows which areas to play in to hurt the opposition. He has a good shot in either foot and he can go past people but his decision making at times is terrible. Lukaku is a finisher that's it but seeing as we only had 13 touches in the Newcastle box compared to their 32 touches he wont get many chances with this style of football. So that begs the question if you wanted a centre forward to be a link up player why sign Lukaku.

Finally just heard RM say we have to keep believing in what were doing and not get distracted by other peoples views. So we can expect more of the same lets just pray we get enough points to keep us in the Premiership.

Bullshit Bill must be dreaming of the boys pen when there were no players as shite as this lot playing in Royal Blue.

1) We have been sussed by everybody big style. Last season, up to a point, it worked. BUT... we are not Barcelona and the fact we are trying to be is faintly embarrassing – if not outright fucking idiotic!

2) I've tried to think of any players who have played up to last season's standards. I can only come up with.... NONE!!! Where the fuck has that come from?

3) The Europa League still contains teams who would twat Stoke and Newcastle... Ergo – FORGET IT!!

4) West Ham in the Cup – do me a favour!

5) I've watched most of the games this season and, apart from a couple in the Europa League, we have NEVER looked to have a game under control.

6) Why do we have a manager who not only persists in playing a deluded style but compounds the fucking situation by playing people out of position? Who amongst us thinks that any of Barkley, Eto'o or Naismith are wingers!?!?

Moving on to the Newcastle game tonight. I'm not even going to start as I'd be here till fucking midnight. I will only say this and please respond. Are we the most unprofessional team in this league (and that includes QPR)? ... Discuss!!!!!!

There's too much that doesn't add up about Roberto Martinez - and the sums are just getting worse.

Literally thousands of fans across the globe knew we needed an experienced centre back in the last week of the summer transfer window. It didn’t happen and injuries, suspensions, and ageing players / loss of form means we are horribly exposed in a defence that gets turned and beaten so often a few feet from our own goal line.

Players cannot cope with a mantra that insists on tippy tappy slow build up possesion football yet at the same time sees the basic shape / formation change almost every week.

Baines is a hero to me but from the moment he signed his massive contract he’s gone backwards and the world cup debacle did him serious damage, he’s just not the player he was, nor is Barry whose been poor since signing his perm deal. Barklay is starting to look very over-hyped which somehow is just so Everton, but I donfeel his confidence is shattered from being played as a winger when the one decent game he’s had against QPR he was played, correctly, in centre mid alongside a ball winning midfielder in Besic.

Truth is we haven’t played a decent full 90 mins all season and the manager has survived serious criticism it seems because he’s genuinely a decent chap.....hardly enough to protect him now though as frankly he looks lost, totally lost.

We just can’t go on after every game saying "don’t panic" it’s all going to be ok.....is it ? Really ? We are five points off relegation and don’t just need one good win......we need five on the spin. So what to do ? Wheel and deal in the window for sure. Couple of strong loan deals and at the very least a centre back and a left sided forward / winger. But most of all Martinez, call a squad mtg and let everyone have a say and hopefully go with a more solid 4-5-1 that has genuine shape and organisation and stick to it.

Dogs of war it may not quite be......but it needs to get close or this stylish decent man will come very near to taking us down. COYB......are we up for this fight ?

Having made 7 changes it is clear the manager can't blame under performing players. Whoever he picks underperforms.

We simply did not chase, harry or press enough and we seemed so lackadaisical after going a goal up.

This smells of bad team spirit, lack of motivation and just a shambolic mess.

Sort it out Martinez, for your own sake.

I understand Martinez has a footballing philosophy he is trying to implement but he has to understand it cannot be to the detriment of results or the club.

Souness has just hit the nail on the head we are giving too many poor goals away and have done all year, Martinez has to recognise the midfield and the centre halves are not good enough to play his way and another system needs to be adopted until he has the players to do so otherwise he will could easily be in a relegation battle and he will and should lose his job if it continues!

He laid the foundations, we were tough, hard working, hard to beat well organised/drilled and had a good set of honest pros who although weren't capable of touching greatness were honest and had a good team spirit.

Martinez is doing a good demolition job of whats gone before. No pride, no passion, slow, lethargic, lacking in effort, disorganised, sloppy.....................I could go on.

His team selections and tactics are just laughable.

The players just don't believe him, 4 points from 21 and counting.

If he means that Evertonians are the outsiders he is wrong - most of us care about the team and its fortunes more than we do some of our relatives and friends.

That may be wrong but it is also the reason why Everton remain a big club in the days of these mega-rich owners.

When I find myself agreeing with pundits and their simplistic but correct summaries I know that we are in trouble - because it is so blindingly obvious where the problems lie.

Swansea and Wigan supporters may have been more patient than Evertonians as they have spent a large part of their history in the lower leagues and anything beyond that is acceptable.

Everton are different, we are not as big as we used to be but we still have a large following who understand the basics of the game and at this moment in time we are getting most of the basics wrong ergo not enough victories and too many goals conceded.

Managing Everton is a difficult job for most people but what you have to do is get the fans onside first and foremost - not listening to the supporters is likely to lead to a parting of the ways. Roberto in the long-term may be proved correct, but we shouldn't be gambling our Premier League future on one man's vision - we won't get relegated I'm pretty sure but the current state of affairs is unacceptable and all the good work in the last two to three season's has been wasted and will not help us in the summer. Change your mind Bobby or change your club - it's your choice.

Its been like this since the fist game of pre season! that's no blip.

I'm worried for our club!

Where was Besic today? The one true streetfighter who's up for the scrap.

If we lose to Hull, then we'll be sucked into it. I don't think it will come to that; I would still give RM 3 years provided we don't get relegated.

Unfortunately the lack of discipline and individual sloppy errors is creeping into pour game too.

Coincidence or not? We have the 2nd worst goals against record in the prem.

It would be hard to believe that the team is not more demoralised than the supporters.

My suspicion is that Mirallas is playing to look good so he can be bought, Barkley seems to have lost confidence and as for Coleman, where is the super confident "I only cost 60,000 so stuff the lot of you" approach which thrived no matter what the rest of the team was doing?

I believe that most sacked managers fundamentally sack themselves. The worse things get the more obstinate and blinkered they become until in the end the club has no choice but to let them go.

Martinez is in that position now. The worse it gets the more determined he is to stick to his "philosophy" no matter how bad it gets. Personally I think he's doomed. it's just a matter of time. I just hope the club don't leave it too late. If they let him go now then at least the next guy will have the January window to bring in a player or three.

The second point is the glaring lack of leadership and team spirit which seems to be getting worse every game. Decisions are going against us in most games but we never complain and just accept it. Pissed me off today in the first half when Eto'o has the ball in their box but one of their players was down and he put the ball out of play! We are far too nice and we play that way...

I fear for the future as I have no faith in the manager to change things. We had too bits of good play today which resulted in 2 goals but they were are only 2 shots on target.

We have one of the best young managers in Europe working with the best club and the most honest set of players we could wish for.. For fuck's sake they are having a tough time and they need us to get behind them – we are all in this together and we should be ashamed of some of the comments posted on here. I won't accept they are not trying!! Or their commitments not there!!

The lads are doing their best to put this right don't you think they are not hurting as much as us tonight ?

Get real we have had a good few years and now it's time to dig in and SUPPORT OUR TEAM!! The good times WILL be back if we do that....

Get less than 3 points and a place in the next round of the FA cup and I think the rumblings of discontent will begin to turn into a chorus of wailing.

Spotlight on you Roberto. We'll be watching.

Moderator's note: Claims of racism against Paul Ferry, another ToffeeWeb member, that we are unable to substantiate have been removed from this comment.

My opinion of Martinez being a poor manager was sealed when I watched Wigan away at Arsenal on Sky. It was close to the end of the 2013 season and Wigan had to win to stand a chance of staying up. Wigan took the lead, but rather than adapt their play, ie, protect their lead, they had the arrogance to keep trying to attack Arsenal. They ended up getting hammered, 4-1 from memory. Most of (maybe all) of the goals they conceded were down to bad defending. I couldn't believe the naivety of Martinez at the time.

He then, to my amazement, became our manager... fucking ridiculous.

You refer to Moyes habits being eradicated?

What like putting effort in? being organised? defending well? putting in some effort? giving a fuck?

Sure I was one of Moyes biggest critics but his teams were honest and at the very least put the effort in.

A positive? I couldnÂ’t see one only a sea of disappointment. I donÂ’t blame Kenwright and the Club, they have gambled everything on what may be seen to have been the final throw of the dice. Too good to go down? I believe we have a good board that would stop this but it could happen, when the rot sets in you can never see why and also never see why it couldnÂ’t be stopped. Crisis? Absolutely and you could see it on RMÂ’s face today. He is a worried man, not because of his next pay checks which will be fat but because he, like Everton, has been rumbled.

The one thing you nearly always got with a Moyes team was full commitment, organisation and effort. Rarely did we used to give goals away, the opposition had to come up with some good play to score, now they just need to have half a dozen attacks and they will probably create a great chance to score.

Moyes annoyed the fuck out of me at times after 8+ years

But you knew when they crossed the line effort and organisation would be there as a minimum.

To those who "have no doubt" or who "have a feeling" Roberto will turn things around, what is the basis for this either in his behaviour in the recent defeats or in his past record? I have seen nothing at all to give any encouragement, nothing.

He's a nice guy Roberto, but that's no reason to keep him as he is a terrible manager IMHO. Sorry for repeating again, but his team is not fit enough for the PL.

I doubt I will have to post this question again as the RM apologists are rapidly dwindling, but I am genuinely interested in reasoned arguments for not sacking him, not just gut feelings. To me it is like watching water pour into a sinking boat and having a feeling it will stop sooner or later.

Separately, I'm at odds with posters who think BK will stand by him because I think he will act sooner rather than later. The reasons for this are that he backed Walter precisely because he did have the track record and was seen as a top manager at a beleaguered club; and despite the 17th place for DM he was never in danger because he took Everton away from relegation almost immediately in season 1 and we never really flirted with relegation in the poor season, we were safe and just fell quickly at the end. RM did this last season but he hasn't stopped since. That's a big difference. We are right now in an 8/9 month slump with no blue sky.

Agreed.

We looked a very ageing side again today. Particularly the three players providing the spine of the team.

I know he's been a decent servant throughout his time here, but Distin's performances have been an absolute disgrace for such an experienced premier league player. What the hell was he doing during the build up to that first goal? The amount of times he's lost track of his man when a cross is hit in, or misjudged the flight of an aerial ball into the box during recent games is embarrassing. That positional incompetence is nothing to do with him being asked to play the ball out from the back, it's down to a failure to focus and a simple switching off at key moments. Slightest bit of pressure and his default mode is 'panic like fuck'... guy his size should be fucking dominating in the air and clattering people to their arse when going shoulder to shoulder. 
His burst of speed and upper body strength has been his saving grace in recent seasons but now he looks completely shot and the sooner he calls it a day the better. 

I said I had serious misgivings about pursuing Gareth Barry so doggedly after seeing how he creaked his way through the second half of last season. Once we got him, I hoped that, used sparingly, he could recapture the form he displayed after first arriving. However he's being flogged to death. Asked to start every game he's fit for and never being subbed, despite taking longer to lift his legs than the Tin Man with his foot trapped in the fucking train tracks. The amount of times he's been dispossessed whilst dwelling on the ball has definitely contributed to us being suddenly caught out at the back so often this season. 

Another player whose best days are long behind him but is likely to be here for a long time yet is Eto'o. I just think he's been hopelessly over-hyped by a lot of Evertonians simply because the dying embers of class are still evident from time to time. Fact is, he was never a fucking playmaker or puller of strings, not even on his best days. He was a quality finisher with pace to burn... but the pace has long since packed it's bags. Yeah, he's a winner,  but Everton certainly haven't been since he began being shoehorned into the side simply because he scored a couple of goals against Burnley a while back. 

The players need to take responsibility and sort things out on the field. They are professionals and, if they see things are not working, then they need to readjust. Like Cloughie used to say, "You can talk to them until you are blue in the face but, once they cross that white line, it's up to them to perform."

My mind is all over the place about Martinez but if he was to go at this point I wouldn't be bothered. I'm fucking heart broken about the way we are playing and to quote an earlier post this week, I'm beginning to feel 'enough is enough'.

Who would we get? I was in the pub and people were saying Tony Pulis!!

Alarm bells must surely be ringing in Mr Kenwright's ears because the team is in a serious spiral of decline. He is walking a tightrope in allowing Mr Martinez to continue in this vein for the club is very seriously heading for the door. Who precisely do we think this team is capable of beating at present? Hull next? Of course we can beat Hull – can we? The threat of relegation is now a very serious one and there appears to little evidence that those concerned seem to be grasping the nettle.

The players themselves, paid their obscene monies, seem relatively unmoved by the situation if their efforts on the field are anything to go by. It is well documented in these pages that in addition to a handful of very good players we have an equal number whose inadequacies on all levels are beyond belief? Names are well documented! There appears to be little evidence anywhere that this spiral can be halted. Obviously I hope it can.

Talk of "Europe" is a nonsense. The first half-decent team Everton next play and out they will go. The pressure at Goodison for the cup tie v WHU will no doubt be beyond this team to cope with as they have shown to be genuinely incapable of meeting real challenges on so many occasions this season.

I do not know what the answer to it all is. I do not envy the chairman his task of making some decisions very quickly but unless he does and unless the riot act is being addressed to all and sundry by the said chairman then this team will end up being relegated and never having been in the second tier since the 1950s it will be a very "dark and forbidding place" to get free from.

The golden boy St David had Everton in far worse positions than we are now or have his acolytes conveniently forgotten his disastrous starts to the season.

The only difference is the fear factor with some who think that Martinez can't reverse the current slump.

Souness pointed out that teams know that Everton play it out of defence, and just press us until we make a mistake. Personally I'm sick to death of conceding piss-poor goals despite the fact that that shots aren't exactly raining in from all sides – Hull: one shot – one goal, Stoke: ditto, Spurs: two shots – two goals and so on.

What we need for the next six weeks is clean sheets, and lots of them, unfortunately I can't see this happening with the GK; if you put Howard & Robles in a blender you wouldn't get a decent keeper from the result. That is top priority in January.

Final point, not an excuse but we're getting nothing from the officials, soft penalties (vs Man City & Stoke City), what does a player need to do to us before they're red carded?

If that were evident then I think there would be a lot less frustration/fuming on here.

Truth is though, there has been a baffling lack of fight or urgency in recent games, only resignation when it seems another game is slipping from their grasp.

Players jogging about at half-pace when the clock is ticking down and they're trailing is not trying 'their best' in my book.

I go to bed tonight hoping I awake to a new manager. Talk about being totally fooled. RM just doesn't have the kick-ass attitude needed at this level.

Do you think he can then? Why? How?

The slump is not the 3 defeats we've just had.

Facts are that 21 pts at exactly halfway projects to a relegation fight and our best form was early on in the season. We are in freefall going into the second half of the season

We were screwed by the ref at HOME last game! Now we get shot in both feet again by a ref who was not 15 yards away, looking straight at Cissé when he poleaxed Coleman! Nothing again! Then the man who shouldn't be on the field only goes and scores... you couldn't make it up. Also, he only goes and scythes down Baines from behind, nothing again!

Anyone that says we'll be relegated, get down to the bookies you can have 60-1 now, I'll give you 100-1. We might not be pulling up trees but luck will change before long.

Martinez will not be sacked by BK, nor do I think he should, he's not to blame for all our ills. Some of our players are past their sell-by dates, Barkley and Lukaku our two most so-called valuable players have been shocking, some others are not good enough for a team of our history, while the rest of them seem shell shocked by what's happening and that's not mentioning our injury history.

Well I don't know about you but I'm going to take a bugle to our next home game and make as much bloody noise as I can, because we need to get behind the team and the manager and scream like banshees at these biased refs, they might condescend to give poor little Everton a decision sooner or later.

We need to support the team more than ever now, why even MotD treats us like 2nd class citizens!

If we go on to lose against Hull that will mean the team has taken 27 points from the last 25 league games. 27 points out of a possible 75.

It’s now a bit more than the first seeds of shiteness.

It seems to me that this style of play is unsuited to the Premier League. Even Chelsea are mixing up their style FFS. The Premier League is too frantic for a continental style of pass, pass, and pass again. You cannot take average players, and mould them into Barça.

Even though I want us to play this way, unfortunately, it won’t work with prime athletes are pressing the ball for a full 90 minutes. They don’t get tired anymore.

So, Roberto, either change your approach, or I’m afraid your days are numbered.

Sean (#166), very few have had it in for Martinez from the start. I have praised and supported and believed for some time that this was a temporary slump. However, the performance of Martinez at Southampton was the worst I have witnessed by any coach at any level in my life.

The players seem totally demotivated, lacking in urgency and totally accepting of defeat. If Martinez is given time to turn this around, which I seriously hope he is not, will he then be given credit for solving a crisis entirely of his making? The Martinez project has the potential to destroy this club.

Last season certain players were clearly shitting themselves at having to play the ball about but they got used to it and Everton won games, plaudits and respect as a result – they were great to watch even when losing, at times.

The flavour of the moans this season is almost entirely either about quality and effort – perhaps add team selection too. The last is RM's doing, the first two are down to the players.

The first sign of poor form?

Generous.

We are a shambles. We have been disorganised and unbalanced most of the season.

That is totally down to the manager.

It is getting worse mot better and it is fair to say we will concede 60+goals. We are one dimensional, lack ideas and he has shelled 28 million oon a striker who doesnt even suit his system.

His other signings are over the top contracts for ageing players exacerbating the already pressing situation of an ageing squad. We really should mainly only be signing players 27 or under.

It is looking like the players aren’t having him and if it doesnt turn in the next few games I believe he should be sacked. I walked out of the Celta Vigo friendly concerned as we were all over the place, and I am now very, very worried.

The squad is an unbalanced mess and he is leading us to nowhere other than deep shit.

Some of our "top" players haven't played well since.

Don't talk daft, mate, I know it is annoying and frustrating to watch at the moment, but "the worst performance you have ever witnessed"? — I don't know if you have been indulging this past week but I can think of far worse from our old friends Smith and Moyes.

Baines was a shambles in midfield, why was he put there? Just like Hibbert playing at left back against West Ham, knowing that we had a better player in the reserves (Garbutt)??

Roberto. YouÂ’re 41 years of age, unbeknownst to yourself, you have a lot to learn about the British game. As I said in my last thread, itÂ’s time for the Dogs of War... swap Big Joe for Big Dunc.

Very depressed Blue.

He has attempted/attempting to try a different approach which did us proud last year, but this year I tend to agree we have been sussed by the opposition in that they can see if our players are closely marked most are not good enough.

Let's get this League season out of the way and decide what happens in the summer. Whichever way we play, lack of money is our brick wall, but I think Moyes proved that, that type of play will only get us so far as well.

They had to open him up to remove screws. The holes in the bone need time to calcify and get strong. Plus Oviedo needs time to get fit and for his wound to heal. Takes time.

For me, it's the lamentable lack of coherence in what he does that is a problem. I didn't want Martinez but was converted by last season's performances (in the first half of the season). The arguments against him do seem to outweigh those for him. I can't but see that RM has created his own crisis.

I'm beginning to think he must go, I'm afraid. Names like Pulis are anathema to me though. We need an intelligent, dignified manager (like Laudrup?).

Moyes's starting 11 was predictable from one game to the next and we were predictable.

People say Martinez hasn't got a Plan B but did Moyes?

Yet it's strange how now we can be so tactically snuffed out.

If he's finished, he wouldn't be considered to even make the squad surely?.

If Barkley is world class and worth a reported 㿊-40 mil, all I can say is sell him. Maybe Moyes was right about loaning him out.

As for McGeady, he just isn't a Premier League player. Championship at best I'd say.

Kone looked pretty sharp and scored a good goal. It's a struggle though to say anything more positive than that. So I won't bother.

Hard to have a pre-season tinker when we didn't have a pre-season....

So why hasn't their experience of last season helped them so far?

I'm at a loss with the bollocks he talks.

Best left back at the club? What a load of crap. Last week it was Garbutt but he played today and we lost so it canÂ’t be him. The fact is that title still belongs to Leighton Baines; he just has no idea what he is supposed to be doing anymore – like everyone else.

It used to be said that DM ruined strikers. Well this clown has ruined everyone, 1 to 11 (or 24 to whatever stupid number, if you prefer).

The problem with that is that other clubs will come sniffing round for excellent players out of form for knockdown prices and those players will not see any reason to stay. Then we really are screwed...

Martinez Out now! (Before itÂ’s too late.)

We have not won anything for close on 20 years... it's not because Martinez is manager, or Moyes, or Walter Smith is manager. Joe Royle was the last to win us silverware in the form of an FA Cup. At least Martinez has matched that!

The real reason is the obvious one, as you undoubtedly know, it's that the cub haven't got or won't spend the money to buy a team that will bring us real success, end of. Depressing but true.

Moyes had a go for 11 years and won sod all but was lauded as a genius because he kept us competitive, honourable losers.

Martinez brought us some hope last season: he's the same guy this year but its going pear-shaped for various reasons which are not all down to him; some, yes... but mainly that other teams have nullified us and most, if not all the players have individually performed poorly up to now or who are simply not good enough.

The biggest worry for me was the players looked absolutely shattered, I'm not used to seeing Everton players unfit – it's concerning to say the least.

All of the questions of the last months still remain unanswered...

Every manager in the Premier League now knows how to play against us. They worked it out in the last quarter of last season and the formula is there for all to see. Martinez is a fraud.

I'm not talking about winning trophies, I'm talking about even competing in matches.

Martinez won an FA Cup, sure, but not for us... so I don't give a toss. He also relegated that team in the same week, so I would prefer the Everton/Wigan symmetry of FA Cup plus relegation was NOT repeated.

Watching MotD at the moment and IMO every single team bar none looks both fitter and better organised than us.

As for money, please don't go there as this guy has been backed to an unprecedented degree for an Everton manager in recent times, for both the #1 and #3 of Everton's record signings (we made a big profit on #2). He has spunked away a ton of money very badly in my opinion, either paying above market value or in throwing away hugely inflated salaries and long contracts to players way past their best days who will have zero sell-on value. So, as well as dismantling the playing side, the prudent financial side of buying and selling young players has also been heavily eroded. Dropping quite a few places down the table will cost the club several million pounds right there also.

You said "get real"; there's a dose of reality...

Neither those players nor the staff are worthy of representing Everton Football Club. Get rid, BK, NOW!!!

I want to see commitment & hard work. I can put up with dithering and the odd strange sub... I can even put up with losing a few; however, I cannot put up with this disorganised team with no obvious defensive management.

I cannot put up with knowing that this is it and there ain't going to be any change in commitment or any silver lining. Martinez out now.

We never looked like scoring, we were second best in every area but our coach thought it best to keep it the same. It seemed to me that we had a charlatan who is not fit to manage our club.

I have seen some poor stuff over the years but Martinez is the first coach we have ever had who is content with it. He must be paid whatever it takes and sacked.

IÂ’ve never seen a softer, Â’nicerÂ’ Everton ever, and it was obvious ages ago. No leaders, no aggression, no nastiness, no verbals, itÂ’s utterly pathetic, players and management alike.

We need at least an average goalie and a few gobby, aggressive bastards really quickly, or weÂ’ll be in a major Â’negative spiralÂ’. People keep criticizing a Joey Barton or a Cahill but we need some men and characters to change the dynamic. Trouble is, I donÂ’t see our manager stooping to such a pragmatic place as itÂ’s against his philosophy and he wouldnÂ’t get on with that type of character.

I think weÂ’re all in a bit of shock after the promise and hope of last season but the manager was complacent and lazy with regards to signings, contracts and pre-season. We could end up paying a very big price.

I donÂ’t wish to dwell on the list of negatives — it would be too long!

I must admit that I too was taken in by Roberto last season but, this season, my eyes have been opened.

It started with an absolutely pathetic shambolic pre-season and that was just the start it has been all downhill from there. But hey we have the same manager and the same coaching staff and far too many of the same players that got Wigan relegated because they couldn’t defend and oh how it shows.

So we have just got what we deserved by allowing Roberto to do it HIS way when it should be patently obvious now even to the most devoted Evertonian that Roberto’s way leads to the Championship.

As I recall, weÂ’re called the PeopleÂ’s Club and I definitely want to attend one of these training sessions with at least a hundred of you, as one man alone wonÂ’t even be noticed, to tell them to buck the fuck up, and voice what you all are saying.

The teamÂ’s morale must be at an all-time low therefore our attempt to make ourselves heard and proceed to question them must be done with precaution and diligence. If IÂ’m being out of line or not being realistic, then I ask what approach would you take as a beloved Evertonian?

I am beginning to cringe whenever he is in MotD! FFS Roberto, take a leaf out of MourinhoÂ’s book and keep the opposition guessing as to what tactics Everton are going to employ!

Last 2 games we've been mugged by the ref. Stoke should have been down to 10 men, then he gives a soft penalty and that's at Goodison! Yesterday, he was looking straight at at Cisse when he poleaxed Coleman, again nothing, also Cisse should have been sent off for his tackle on Baines later, zilch. Nothing at the moment is favouring us, we can't get a break to save our lives.

Can we stop going on about them not being fit? It's the players individually that are not performing – that's the biggest trouble, not fitness.

By the way, we're 12th not 20th; as I said before, you can get 60/1 on relegation.

I'm not saying Martinez is blameless, he has been attempting to play a style of football that half of the players are not skilled enough to do. He's tried changing the team but that hasn't worked for us this season, unlike last season.

The players need to stand up and be counted, I don't think there's one player performing well... Lukaku and Barkley have looked terrible this season, they have been found wanting.

As far as the defence is concerned, they must be the most experienced in the League – they shouldn't need to be told how to defend. They did well on the whole last season; this season, they have been shite. The central defenders have been very poor and need replacing; it's looking like father time has caught up with them.

Concede goals = lose football matches. Not rocket science.

We all know about his ability. It would be nice if he showed a bit of urgency now and then and bust a gut for the royal blue shirt.

We should jump in for Warnock pronto before he gets snapped up.

We have already missed out big time on Pulis

Firstly this has not become a crap side overnight. At crucial points last season, we blew up goodstyle, notably at Arsenal in the FA Cup and vs Liverpool at Anfield.

The main problem seems to be a lack of tactical nous from RM when things arenÂ’t going to plan and a chronic lack of pace in key areas. You canÂ’t play Barry, EtoÂ’o & Distin in the same team. Against Newcastle, the energy of Tiote etc exposed us as unable to match a team when they go up a gear. Once a team goes ahead against us, it appears to be game over.

I have thought that RM should go but that was after the Stoke game where we were awful again and iÂ’d frozen my nuts off and had Christmas spoilt.

My thoughts now are that RM needs to adapt quickly and go back to basics. We need solidity not flair, Kone showed more energy than Lukaku and the Baines - Garbutt partnership shows promise. In the middle IÂ’d ditch Barry for Besic, Barry slows the game down allowing the opposition to be set and ready for the inevitable giveaway.

There are no replacements for Martinez who are any better... so – much as I donÂ’t like it – iÂ’m afraid itÂ’s a case of better the devil you know.

My last point concerns Barkley – the lad is the brightest thing at this club. He is constantly played out of position yet he tries every game to turn it around. You only have to see how hard he tries to see how much he cares. If fans want to keep getting on his back, itÂ’s the surest way of driving him away. YouÂ’ll soon see how good he is when heÂ’s being brilliant in a Chelsea or Man Utd shirt.