Brilliant start by Kone horribly squandered

Everton started brilliantly, McGeady feeding a superb pass out to Coleman who crossed perfectly for Kone to slam the ball home inside 5 mins. But they tried to sit on the lead and paid the price, Cissé finally converting. Barkley came on at the break but it was McGeady who gifted the ball away for Newcastle to score again far too easily. Some absolutely dreadful defending at the back saw Barkley cushion the ball perfectly for Colback to benefit, closing in behind him to beat the yellow lummox in the Everton goal with consummate ease. Game Over... despite Mirallas scoring off a brilliant Baines through-ball.

Michael Kenrick 28/12/2014 207comments | Jump to last

Kevin Mirallas is one of four players who picked up knocks against Stoke and are doubts for the Newcastle trip

Newcastle United 3 - 2 Everton

Roberto Martinez shook things up a little with seven changes for the first of two crucial away games coming hot on the heels of two poor defeats. Arouna Kone started for Everton with Joel Robles in goal, Aiden McGeady and Luke Garbutt recalled as Tim Howard, Phil Jagielka, and John Stones are all out with injuries. Barkley, Mirallas and Lukaku are all dropped to the bench while Steven Naismith served out a one-match ban for picking up five yellow cards. Russel Griffiths from the academy is the substitute goalkeeper while Besic and Oviedo reappear on the bench.

With Garbutt and Baines in the starting line-up, suggestions that Baines could finally play further forward, with McGeady on the right side and Eto'o playing in the hole behind Kone. Everton stqarted the game in this formation, and dominated the early possession, Coleman crossing a superb layoff for Kone to rocket home!!

Barry gave away a poor foul on Sissoko, who then got free but overhit his first touch, forcing Robles to give up the first corner as the home side applied some pressure. Everton were disappointingly reticent when they did get the ball � almost as if they were happy to sit back on their ominously early slender one-goal lead... A Garbutt free-kick was was wasted and Newcastle were right back in their faces, winning another corner that was palmed out by Robles but Barry then gave it away.

Finally, Everton got some forward possession, Kone and Eto'o looking to link up, but it came to nothing and Everton resorted to defending deep, giving up another corner as they invited the Barcodes to equalize. Baines was fouled, the ball played out to Garbutt then back to Robles via Distin, losing possession! Maddening piss-farting about instead of playing the ball forward! But suddenly a brilliant move through the middle, Garbutt letting Kone play in Coleman who was called offside as he shot brilliantly, forcing a good save.

Article continues below video content

Kone got down the left but showed too much of the ball to a defender as Everton finally got into the Newcastle area, but stopped the play when Tiote went down. Gouffran was carded for a heavy challenge on Coleman. Play looked to be developing when McGeady hopelessly left the ball behind. McCarthy clattered Sissoko and he saw yellow. A free-kick and another corner to defend, but taken poorly. Coleman took an elbow in the face from Cissé at the third attempt, not seen by the referee.

Promising midfield possession ended with a desperate scoop back to Robles by Barry with Newcastle pressing, winning yet another corner that saw the home side really fighting for a goal. And that came form the next corner, taken short, the ball coming back to Cissé, who could not miss. Shocking concession of the early advantage, but nothing less than expected as Everton had totally failed to build on the brilliant early goal.

Everton won their first corner on 36 mins with Kone, running away from goal, trying an impossible header. Some better forward possession saw Kone playing a little too deep but at least keeping the ball moving much more effectively than Lukaku of late, a good move ending when McGeady typically lashed the ball high and wide. The half ended with the annoying feeling that Everton had squandered a tremendous opportunity to really hammer the home side; instead, it was Newcastle who finished the half almost scoring again.

Barkley came on to replace McCarthy after the break. McGeady got forward down the right but his cross was too close to Alnwick and Newcastle were attacking, but a great drive down the middle by Barkley should have led to at least a shot on goal, rather than a corner that Baines fired in superbly to the far post but Barry could not finish it off.

At the other end almost an own goal, Robles needed ito be alert to push it behind but from the corner, some dreadful play by McGeady, playing it straight to Tiote and Perez had an easy task to finish through Coleman's legs with Robles immaculately statuesque... pathetic defending from Everton, as they were soon under pressure again, giving up another corner. Everton did get some forward possession but Eto'o overhit his defense-splitting pass to Kone for a goal kick.

Garbutt did his best with a tremendous cross but it was headed back and Newcastle were quickly down the other end, as Martinez had Lukaku and Mirallas warm up. Barry was next to give the ball away under zero pressure, then Coleman likewise from an Everton throw-in! More piss-farting about, Barkley playing very deep, almost let Newcastle in again.

Everton should have broken at pace but somehow Barkley lost the ball as Mirallas replaced the maddening Aiden McGeady. Coleman then shamefully played the ball along the line and ran it out of play as mistake after mistake destroyed any tempo Everton tried to achieve. Baines did brilliantly to defeat Tiote and lay it back on a plate for Eto'o who scooped it wastefully high over the bar.

Baines played in a good cross that Kone tried to force home as Everton showed a little more initiative, but the game was open and Newcastle were back in attack. Some absolutely dreadful defending at the back saw Barkley cushion the ball perfectly for Colback to benefit, closing in behind him to beat the yellow lummox in the Everton goal with consummate ease.

Newcastle surged forward again, and Robles benefited from a shot that he couldn't help saving as it was straight at him; otherwise, goal number 4, as Kone gave way to Lukaku.

It was Game Over with 20 minutes left to play. Everton trying to raise their game while Newcastle sat back, a corner wasted by Garbutt, overhit. It was painful in the extreme as the Everton players really had no idea what to do and no self-belief taht they could get anything from the game. T'was ever thus when they score that early goal and give you such hope.

But suddenly, Baines played a fantastic forward pass, Mirallas dinking the ball over Alnwick to make it 3-2. Barkley then got a soft free-kick as he slipped over, Mirallas curling it just wide of the post wen he should really have got it on target. Eto'o had a great chance to play in Lukaku but played it to a defender instead. Barkley then crossed poorly, overhitting it as the minutes ticked away.

Coleman put in an excellent low cross that was meat and drink for a decent centre-forward but Lukaku was hanging back a yard or two and showed zero initiative to convert at the near post. Newcastle almost walked the ball into the net, Garbutt scooping away out of Robles' hands. Incredibly, they then missed two more chances, Riviere smacking the post with Robles a gormless spectator.

A home side who had scored just 9 goals in 10 home were gifted three by a super-generous Everton side who seem to have no idea how to press home an advantage from such a tremendous early goal, Everton conceding 3 goals in successive away games for the first time since May 2005. Five defeats in seven Premier League games and Roberto Martinez looking fearlessly down both barrels of a shotgun, still believing the performances of his charges are 'phenomenal'...

Scorers: Cissé (34′), Pérez (51′), Colback (68′); Koné (5′), Mirallas (84′)

Newcastle United: Alnwick; Janmaat, Williamson, Coloccini, Dummett; Sissoko, Colback, Tiote, Gouffran [Y:'27] (90' Cabella); Cissé (73' Riviere), Ayoze Perez.
Subs not Used: Santon, Anita, Taylor, Armstrong, Woodman.

Everton: Robles; Coleman, Distin, Alcaraz, Garbutt; Barry (C), McCarthy [Y:28'] (46' Barkley), McGeady (61' Mirallas), Baines, Eto'o, Kone (71' Lukaku).
Subs not Used: Griffiths, Browning, Besic, Oviedo.

Referee: Craig Pawson
Kick off: 4:15pm

Reader Comments (207)

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Harold Matthews
1 Posted 28/12/2014 at 14:41:21

Decent line-up but Barkley and Mirallis dont believe in breaking sweat for the team. Id prefer Baines and Oviedo, both of whom would track back with gusto.

Mike Corcoran
2 Posted 28/12/2014 at 15:21:57

Garbutt and Baines, is this LB and LM? Are we going 3 5 2 with Garbutt left of 3 or Barry left of 3 and Baines in the centre mid?

Im cabbaged if I know.

Ian McDowell
3 Posted 28/12/2014 at 15:26:22

God Robles! Dread it!

Richard Lyons
5 Posted 28/12/2014 at 15:30:05

Bold move - Bobby has been reading the TW posts and dropped Lukaku in favour of Kone... Not sure this is the most appropriate time to be experimenting with new formations though.

We can definitely win this (but I said that before the Southampton game).

Phil Gardner
6 Posted 28/12/2014 at 15:35:51

Spare ticket available in the Everton end for today's game at Newcastle.

Collect at the game....a freebie.

Phil 07949651710

Max Wilson
7 Posted 28/12/2014 at 15:29:02

"Lukaku dropped" is a really silly and misleading statement. He, along with a lot of our best talent, is on then bench after a physically and emotionally draining game just 48 hours ago. Come on now guys! To-day will be a challenge we all know that. But it's also a chance for guys to show what they can do. A clean sheet to-day would cheer us all up. Would it be too much to ask for a show of confidence and momentum, both missing from recent games? COYB!

Stephen Karnes
8 Posted 28/12/2014 at 15:39:52

Garbutt starting. For everyone screaming about he should be in the first team, you better hope he comes good. Not sure it matters with Robles in there though, probably be 13 - 0 by half-time.

Harold Matthews
9 Posted 28/12/2014 at 15:46:55

Will Baines let Garbutt take the corners?

Ray Roche
10 Posted 28/12/2014 at 15:53:19

He should do, Harold, although Baines corners against Stoke had shown an improvement. I hope Baines plays further forward with Garbutt at LB.

Joe Duffin
11 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:03:03

Slightly unbalanced team but here is hoping. I watched Kone against Sunderland in the Under-21s and I thought he played well. It will be interesting to see how he gets on today.

Alcaraz is always a liability and then to have him together with Distin is a recipe for disaster. Who knows!

Gary Heywood
12 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:06:58

We are looking at a heavy defeat here. Mirallas, Lukaku and Barkley should never be dropped. It is the style of play that's wrong not the performances of these players.

David Cornmell
13 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:14:06

Does Bobby visit TW?
Wholesale changes! Wide players playing! Garbutt!
COYB!

John Malone
14 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:21:34

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!

That felt good think the roof tiles just lifted!!!

Alfonso Orlando
15 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:26:21

Insightful comment there, Gary Heywood (#12).

David Cornmell
16 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:21:10

Fuck me, Kone looks sharp.

John Malone
17 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:32:37

How much tidier and competent is Kone than Lukaku breath of fresh air a centre forward with a first touch and can play a bit!

David Cornmell
18 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:39:38

WTF are you doing Eto'o?

The ref has a whistle, play the game man!

David Cornmell
19 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:42:05

This is the first game with all the Wigan signings starting right? I'm sure some statto can confirm that or deny it.

Martinez signings McGeady, Barry and Eto'o make this the least Moyes like XI I can recall.
Effective?

Joe Duffin
20 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:48:03

Totally agree #17 John. Kone so much better. Typical though that a player so should have been sent off scores for the bar codes.

Michael Polley
22 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:48:10

Newcastle equaliser - here we go again !!!!!!

Steven Telford
23 Posted 28/12/2014 at 16:50:17

Cesse - dirty bastard - shouldn't have even been on the pitch after that nasty elbow.

A clean sheet with Joel was never likely.
We have to improve if we want to take something from this.

Michael Kenrick
24 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:04:31

Just maddening play at times, after such a brilliant start...

Why oh why oh why...??? If you have the ball and there's nothing on, drive forward do something positive!!!

Initiative totally squandered.

Tony Hill
25 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:09:07

Some encouraging signs, notably Garbutt and Kone - the latter is a joy to watch in terms of touch and poise.

Less encouraging is Baines in midfield who, alas, looks a bit lost but he has a good record against Newcastle so heres hoping. Distin to blame for the goal and Barry ahead of Besic is a mystery.

There seems somewhat more sharpness about us.

Phil Davies
26 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:10:10

Mirallas and Oviedo can play left wing, but Martinez opts for a 33 year old striker with no pace who wants to play through the middle, same with Baines, he looks out of his depth, Besic or Barkley should be there instead.

Dave Abrahams
27 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:13:29

They are saying on final score that Alan Pardew is being toted as the next Crystal Pal. Manager.

Nev Renshaw
29 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:15:15

We stopped playing after scoring our goal. Only a matter of time before they equalised (albeit from somebody that shouldn't have still been on the pitch).

Gary Mortimer
30 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:17:58

1-0 up and them down to 10 men - completely game. As usual the officials allow opposition players to commit red card offences without proper punishment. What have we done to deserve this? Perhaps it's because we play in the same city as their darlings in red.

Steven Telford
31 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:13:21

Replace McGeady!!!!!!!

Michael Polley
33 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:13:06

That's it. Total incompetence. I've now switched the game off. I've had enough of this shite. Poor Dixie Dean will be turning in his grave.

Tony Hill
34 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:25:21

Our central problem, despite RM's possession obsession, is that we can't retain the ball effectively. Still think we'll get something. Please.

Jim Bennings
35 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:19:22

A load of average crap again since such a positive start, can hardly blame Robles for the fact we haven't kept a clean sheet since November 1 or the fact we have kept just three all season.

We need to start winning games, just look at clubs down there like Burnley fighting and fighting.?

If we fail to win today or at Hull then you struggle to see where the wins are coming from in the near future..

There we fuckin go!!

McGeady and Robles shit name it 2-1!!!

Fuck off Everton..

We could go down this season guys we really could.

We ARE that BAD!

Ian Gulliford
36 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:26:46

That second goal, that's it for me. We are a shambles at the back and Martinez has no idea how to fix it.

Jim Bennings
37 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:27:22

Martinez really will be on borrowed time very soon I believe..

You can't even make excuses today about players missing, they were all the on Boxind Day and the Southampton debacle.

No matter who the personnel is or what formation they use, they just cannot do it.

James Byrne
39 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:30:37

Get McGeady off for fuck sake

Jim Bennings
40 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:30:45

No characters, no leaders, no men shouting orders, no movement, no cohesion.

This is a very worrying Everton team, we haven't exactly got the hard men to drag us out of this relegation battle have we?

Andrew Rimmer
41 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:32:08

Who on earth decided that Alcaraz was a defender?
Who on earth decided that Eto'o was a midfielder?
Who on earth decided to pay £28 Million for an average striker?
Answerson a postcard to Roberto Martinez

Tommy Jones
42 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:34:50

Fuckin' get McGeady off. What a liability...

Linda Morrison
43 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:33:57

This is dire. I was at the Stoke game in the rain and snow. I thought to myself why oh why am I sitting here watching this drivel and paying for it. I just can't get my head around how this team has gone off the boil. Have we had an invasion of the body snatchers?

Roberto will I am sure pay the price if this carries on as you can't sack a whole team.

If those players think they are too good to go down they are fooling themselves.

What bets on Roberto taking us down and we win a cup?

Dave Duggan
45 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:32:38

I would love to see Eto'o never start a game of football again. I don't get the hype. Loves himself and thinks he is the same man from 10 years ago. That he is not!! Get him off!!!!

I feel for Oviedo. I don't blame the lad if he has kicked off. 33-year-old journeyman and McGeady ahead of him is laughable.

Nev Renshaw
46 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:42:16

All over.

James Byrne
47 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:41:42

Roberto has got to go............fucking spineless against a shite Newcastle side.

Tony Hill
48 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:41:53

You can't blame the manager for basic incompetence from the players. They are a disgrace.

Dave Duggan
49 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:41:02

Agree with Jim, we are playing that bad we could go down. Burnley showing enough fight in them at Man City and we cave at fucking Newcastle it's disgusting! This is fuckin embarrassing!!!!

Jim Bennings
51 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:38:59

Linda

If you seriously think this team of characterless wasters could win a Cup then I'd ask you what you'd been smoking lately.

The team of 1995 was limited but packed with leaders of men.
This team is spineless and frankly are bollox..

3-1 Newcastle thanks to the "best English player for years" hahaha.

We are fucking totally awful.

No fight no spirit and no quality.

James Byrne
52 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:44:34

Tony, the manager picks the team and decides the tactics. McGeady should have been off after 20 minutes.

Peter Morris
53 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:42:52

These players are just too casual about surrendering possession and the number of times we are punished for giving the ball away cheaply this season is simply unbelievable and unacceptable for players of this so called quality.

Today, McGeady's casual approach has undoubtedly cost us the game, giving the ball away on the edge of our area, leading directly to the second goal, and then Barkley, well, what can be said? Another poor, poor display by players being found out big style.

Andrew Rimmer
54 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:44:57

OMG
Kone off for Lukaku????
What fucking difference will that make Roberto?
Utterly clueless. 5 points above relegation and staring at the abyss.
Kenwright, you've got to act now!

Tommy Jones
55 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:44:12

Come on, Everton, dont panic a goal and were back in this.

Max Murphy
57 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:42:45

Southampton beaten in 5 straight then they meet Everton ... Newcastle beaten in 4 straight then they meet Everton ... Jack Colback has never scored for Newcastle.. until he plays against Everton.

When the media announced yesterday a Premier League manager had been sacked, I was hoping and praying it was Martinez. Sadly it was Neil Warnock.

Mark Rimmer
58 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:45:58

Well it's official, we are in a relegation battle. Martinez is used to this but ultimately his style of play loses the battle.

Terrible in defence, no confidence up front and we haven't the squad to cope with the injuries.

Very bleak outlook. I'm really struggling to see where a win's gonna come from.

Nev Renshaw
59 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:49:10

Years ago, we used to be known as the School of Science. Well as Jim Royle would say, 'School of Science, my arse!'

Jim Bennings
60 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:46:06

James

More importantly not only does the manager pick the team but the manager is meant to fucking MOTIVATE the team and looking at this bunch, there's no motivation, no hunger, no desire.

Barkley will never be the player Gerrard is because Gerrard, hate the count I do, is a winner and he despises losing.

Barkley just doesn't seem to be able to say "right fuck this I'm taking over this game" he is not even the player Harry Kane is, infact he's nowhere near the player Kane is.

What's happened to Coleman this season? .. He has been woeful.

Mind you he's not alone, with the exception of one or two of them, they have all been woeful.

Bob Heyward
62 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:47:58

Weve got real problems, but it is NOT the players. The quality IS there. Mirallas, Lukaku, Barkley on a bench! Baines, Jags, Coleman, McCarthy, Barry, Eto playing. THE QUALITY IS THERE. The management is not. Martinez out. Now. Before it is too late.

MARTINEZ OUT, NOW.

Nev Renshaw
64 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:53:51

At last, a flicker of hope.

Jim Bennings
65 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:55:33

3-2 that flatters us to be honest.

Sometimes it makes you wonder what we'd have in the team going forward if Mirallas was not there. Slag him off, yes, but he's still a goal threat and there's not too many in this team.

David Holroyd
66 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:32:11

McGeady, except for the cross, has done nothing. He hasn't finished 90 mins since he came a year ago. Eto'o looks lost playing left side. The bright spot is that Kone looks far more dangerous then that lump Lukaku, and has put in quite a shift. I am sorry but Robles is awful, 3-1 now and another player scores a first goal against us.

Martinez out for me he hasn't a clue. We need a big clear-out this summer. 72 mins gone and Newcastle have far more movement and pace than we have. I kid you not we are in a relegation battle... just you watch.

Jim Bennings
67 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:04:31

We got everything we deserved today.

Bollox display laden with mistakes a perfect recipe for losing more games.

Glen Garrett
68 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:04:34

I get the feeling that the only one that is happy is Martinez himself, he must feel that he is back in the Wigan days as he seeing relegation getting nearer... happy days for him.

Andrew Rimmer
69 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:07:59

Look on the bright side. Tickets might be cheaper next season!

Karl Parsons
70 Posted 28/12/2014 at 17:55:49

Simply not good enough.

We have become the easiest team to beat and they simply don't look like it matters. That complacency comes from a Manager that accepts defeat.

31 goals conceded. Gutless from the top down.

Tony Hill
71 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:04:41

Jim, as you say, Gerrard is a self-motivator. In other words, he doesn't need a manager to tell him to try his best for his club. Not so, sadly, for the shambolic dummies currently wearing the shirt. Barkley is appalling, so is Coleman, so is Barry, so is Distin and so and so on.

I share the concerns about RM but today was all about the players, it really was. I am ashamed of them.

Max Wilson
72 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:09:06

Cisse should have been sent off. McGeady was pulled off eventually thank god.

Steven Telford
73 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:08:13

The most depressing part is, I honestly believe, we have a so many top class payers......

I know some people will disagree, but I think it's OTT for people to be calling for Roberto to go.

John Malone
74 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:08:18

Any decent manager could do a lot better with these players, he doesn't know his best eleven, he doesn't have an effective strategy to play to, and he's killing the team by playing good players out of there correct position.

Martinez out the sooner the better, we were playing shite last year the only difference was we were scoring last minute Mirallas free kick winners and getting away with murder at the other end, this year we are not so lucky THE MANAGER IS SHITE!

Glen Garrett
75 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:09:22

Andrew Rimmer (#69), I think you're right there, mate. I think the match tickets should be free.

if Everton get relegated, I think the manager and players should play for no wages next season till we get back up into the Premier League.

Steven Telford
76 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:12:23

Andy Gray made a good point when he said, if there was one part of Everton that Martinez should not have changed, it's Moyes's back 4 tactics. He should have left that well alone.

Barry Thompson
77 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:09:42

Can't wait to read - From my cell (padded) - Ken Buckley

Anto Byrne
78 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:04:05

Stupendous... Phenomenal... two words you can shove were it dont shine.

What a spineless, gutless, inept performance. Seriously we look like Wigan! Pathetic... no movement, no pace, no invention, no leadership, no direction. This is totally shocking and we can only point the finger at Martinez.

Garbutt played well but Robles can pack his bags now and fuck off back to Spain and take that one-dimensional Spanish waiter with him. Hull City and Man City next... I dont fancy our chances playing this shite.

Sean Patton
79 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:16:50

For the second game in a row the opposition have got away with a blantant red card which changes the game as bad as Everton are at the minute the shambolic officiating should not be ignored.

Jamie Barlow
80 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:08:27

Very worrying this now. We've got a group of players and manager who haven't got a clue what they are doing.

Our goals against is very worrying. We have a goalkeeper who can't even catch a fucking ball and defenders who just let people waltz through them. A midfielder who looks like he's running in treacle but won't be dropped and a 28 million pound striker that can't jump or keep hold of the ball. All a bit fuckin clueless.

Time to fight it out Bobby. Sort out our defence first and foremost and forget your tippy tippy shit. It isn't working.

Anyone who asks Distin to play football isn't in the real world.

Ray Roche
82 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:20:44

Five points off Burnley, eight off Leicester at the bottom and Hull (a) and City (h) to come.. Anyone who thinks we definitely wont or can't go down should wake up and smell the bullshit.

Steven Telford
84 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:23:02

A decent keeper and there was a point in that game for us.

Sam Hoare
85 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:17:13

Thoroughly depressing fare. Not sure whether Martinez has it in him to seriously correct this. He has already said that we will not be altering our playing style and I have serious doubts about his ability to spend any money we might have wisely. Looking at the match tonight we might conisider how we spent 40m on Lukaku and McCarthy while Newcastle spent 1.5m on Colback and Perez (i do actually like McCarthy but still...).

We cannot hold winning positions (have dropped more points from there than any other team) and we also seriously struggle to break down teams that are defending in numbers.

We are lacking intensity, determination, movement, organisation and desire. To be honest I can't think of any positive qualities shown in our performaces this season except some of the counter attacking in the Europa. Teams have worked out how to play against us and this run of 3 points from the last 15 shows that.

Either Martinez has to change things up or he has gonna have to be changed himself.

Nev Renshaw
86 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:19:21

I honestly don't know when our next win is going to come. If all the other teams in the premier league were asked which team they would like to play every week in order to pick up the most points, I think Everton would be high up the list.

Dave Pritchard
87 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:23:58

Lots of very average performances today but some awful ones. Eto'o awful, Barkley awful, McGeady awful, Barry awful.

Geoff Harrison
89 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:14:10

Another steaming great turd of a performance.
You have to look at the fundamental differences between now and last December. There is the obvious and remarkably poor footballer, Aiden McGeady, who in my opinion was never consistently good for anyone.
And then there is a player who is all about reputation and past glories, who may well (because of his status in the world game) be exerting far too much influence on current proceedings. I hate to say it, but I fear that Samuel Eto'o may be central to our problems.
But, then again, I'm as mystified as any of us, but something has happened to our changing room dynamic.
..And there's also Distin.

Mick Wrende
92 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:33:37

Lets face it, it doesnt matter who plays we are shit whatever team we put out. Thats down to the manager and the sooner he goes the better. Cant believe that some on here think we wont be relegated.

Chris Williams
93 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:17:54

I dont think you can blame Roberto for this result folks. We got beaten because we gave two goals away through personal errors by Mc Geady and Barkley, plus a goal that was scored by someone who shouldnt have been on the pitch.

Fair enough, they play stupidly around the area when they should just put it into the crowd and that needs sorting because its cost us big time again.

He changed the team today and there were some positives

Garbutt looks the part
Baines looks promising in midfield and maybe thats the future
Kone looks better holding up the ball
McCarthy is a miss but in tandem with Baines looked good in the first half

On the negative side

Distin is finished at this level and once Stones and Jags are back maybe 3 at the back is an answer
Barry is not at it since his injury and Besic is a better option
Etoo is a luxury in this team
Barkley is not worth his place as a starter at the moment
Neither is Lukaku unless he plays off Kone

Fucking pissed off but strangely encouraged. Must be the brandy and ports.

Kevin Tully
94 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:29:47

Alcaraz awful, McGeady awful, Eto’o awful, Barry awful, Robles wants to take up fishing.

That is what you get when you try to make a P.L. Team out of free signings and cast -off’s.

That doesn’t excuse unsuitable tactics from the manager by the way.

Rick Tarleton
96 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:29:45

That was awful. Defensively we were clueless. Why is the best left back in the club never picked? Oviedo, think of the Stoke game last season , he was defensively sound, which neither Baines or Garbutt is and silky in his attacking play.
Lukaku needs to be fed with the right kind of passes when he comes on. Someone said on ToffeeWeb recently that hes a great attacking counter-attacker, we dont do counter-attacks , we play it so slowly upfield that Lukakus speed and strength is negated.
The centre backs were atrocious, my heart was in my mouth every time Newcastle moved the ball at speed into our half.
And above all the method is wrong it worked for Barcelona circa 2010, but they had Messi, Xavi and Iniesta, weve got Lukaku, McGeady and the ageing Etoo, it aint the same.Barkley hasnt a clue wjere hell beasked to play next and what Besic has done to upset Martinez, I dont know. Did he join Oviedo in asking what the heck is going on?

Bob Heyward
98 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:11:06

Robertos Positive Peter approach does the most damage. Martinez lacks the grit to be a manager.

Todays lack of effort and creativity will no doubt be met with a cheery smile and a hug for the players; not the rocket they deserve. Martinez will blame individual errors undermining an overall good, positive approach, instead of understanding the wider problem - his players are in a comfort zone, fearing no repercussion for poor performance.

Unfortunately, that positive outlook is in his nature. Where we all see a virtually constantly crap McGeady, he dwells on the very occassional moment of skill. Ditto for Kone. Indeed, such focusing on the positive is how we end up paying top dollar for a striker that has zero first touch.

After a manager like Moyes who focused on the negative, I can easily see how such an approach would initially be uplifting. No more. Now our squad need a dose of reality.

Thats why he needs help. Now. Before it is too late. He cant see the problem because he is the problem.

Replacements? No. I think we need a co-manager. Someone to inject steel where it is needed. Someone that prioritises unfashionable elements that complement tik-a-taka, e.g. scoring from a set piece, defending, leadership. Someone mature enough to understand how to complement a young manager. Someone who knows the club.

Who?

Joe Royle. Set loose the Dogs of War once more.

Bob Heyward
99 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:37:12

@ Chris - Really, are the Roberto apologists still playing the positive card? Get a grip, lad.

Mike Chambers
100 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:40:01

We have players who are good enough. Just need a manager who can lead them, but who is out there to come in and work with no money?

Mohammed Horoub
101 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:20:59

Have we hit rock bottom yet or can RM find more abyss to fall into? That was painful to watch. Martinez has officially run out of ideas... I don't understand why we can't clear the ball down field! Just punt it. Maybe there's no word in Spanish for punt... Hopefully Kenwright has the words 'you're fired' in his vocabulary. The problem is our team is made up of fair weather players, not one of these guys will know how to deal with a relegation fight... Barkley has bought into his own hype... 60 Million! Martinez is delusional... No game plan, no tactics, players are lost, Barry and Distin are collecting their pension. Coleman's head is not with us. Lukaku is carrying a 28 million Boulder on his shoulders and can't get rid of it. Solution is circle the wagons: Screw possession, ditch passing it out from the back, practice set pieces and get some clean sheets and confidence back. If RM won't change his philosophy he needs to walk because this team has given up. What a difference a year makes... 2015 is not too far away...

Steven Telford
102 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:36:25

With Moyes we were everything down the left (too dependent), Martinez mixed that up last season and brought our right to life, it all looked wonderful for a while, but all I see now are charges forward that take us to the edge of the opponents box (too often the middle) and then fizzle out due to the sheer weight of numbers that are permitted the time to get back.

Lukaku is a top class player, and you see today the same problems without him on the field. He is not being utilized properly.

Mike Green
104 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:24:22

Steven 73 - we do have good players, we also have players who are about to topple into retirement (probably should be there now), we also have plenty who don't have much experience under their belt but do have potential.

From what I've seen this season I honestly think Roberto has lost how to assemble them into an effective unit. He obviously has his philosophy but either the players can't do it, don't want to do it, don't understand it or it just doesn't work and their confidence is now shot to pieces.

Some of our defending in particular looks like something out of the Keystone Cops, we can't break down teams once they pull everyone back to defend and unless Roberto can re-assemble the squad with a new approach he has to go now as this simply isn't going to work as it is.

Is it me or have we also gone a bit sh*t since Big Dunc got more involved? I know he has massive support from many Blues but I wouldn't let him within a mile of any of the players, at any level.

Who would I have in? God knows.

Andrew Rimmer
106 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:41:13

This man was so blind in his management of Wigan he refused to change his style of play and look what happened to them! Blaming Referee decisions is grasping at straws. There are fundamental things wrong with what's happening at Everton. Look at how we gave up last year. We were lucky to have had such a good season but the luck has now run out folks. This is reality. The Championship beckons.

Neil Cremin
108 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:39:31

I have been saying for some time, we have no central defence which should have been strengthened in August when we were negotiating from strength. In January who will want a team fighting relegation. Yes that is our situation, 21points from 19 games translates to 42 at end of season, all going well. That is fighting relegation. We also need a goalkeeper and Peter Czek is unlikely to be enticed. This is very Wigan like, losing against mediocre teams , then pulling off a special result. I'm afraid, I'm afraid. We need to wake up and smell the coffee

Andy Walker
110 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:50:14

Did anyone see the pre match interview with RM? I actually felt sorry for him, he looked like a little lost boy, haunted and worried. That will not be lost on the players.

Roberto I expect you are a really nice chap, but time has run out.

Paul Dickinson
111 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:37:48

What a load of shite that was again! We have no fight, no commitment and no desire. I think we got lucky with a few results last season and weren't as good as we thought we were.

Last season the backbone of the team still had the Moyes fight, fitness and defensive nous in them from the previous years, now Martinez has coached that out of them. We still have no pace, can't counter anyone and have become the easiest team in the Prem to play against.

I still think Lukaku can come good but as we can see, he is not a back to goal striker. Too many players who were outstanding let season are piss poor this season, whether or not that is down to Martinez is anyone's guess but I do this his time may be up and how long should we leave it!!

Tony Christian
113 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:51:31

I just hope WBA sack Alan Irvine and the man is back on our coaching staff within weeks. Mediocre coaching and deplorable fitness & conditioning are much more damaging than any poor refereeing decisions.

Tony Hill
116 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:49:36

You are correct Mohammed 101. Dirty results are needed now. We were again feeble today and we need to get draws/ wins by whatever means possible, I don't care about stats or patterns or any other football theory.

I think we'll beat Hull. We better had. There were, as Chris 93 says, some strange signs of hope today. Or perhaps that's just the Christmas weed....

Roman Sidey
118 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:38:29

I just watched Jose Mourinho's post match interview, and Martinez could do well to watch and learn from the Special One. In his own interview he quietly responded to the question that Cisse's actions were unacceptable. Jose responded to questions over Cesc not winning a penalty (and getting booked for diving) with such vitriol that his English was actually quite poor. The man was incensed and made it clear that he is onto the refs. I'm so sick of our club's "oh well" attitude and desire to be nice people. Cisse will get 3 matches for that, with Burnley, Chelsea and Southampton reaping the benefits. Had that happened to a Chelsea defender, a Liverpool defender, or a defender for pretty much any football team in the world other than Everton, you would have had the captain in the face of the ref demanding red.

Add to that, Everton don't put any pressure on the man with the ball - and RM moans about other teams not letting us play attractive football. For fuck's sake, we let teams do whatever they want to us.

Add to that again, I said about two years ago that Naismith had put in one of the worst performances in a blue shirt I had ever seen. Well, that record has just been obliterated by our very own Aiden McGeady. I'll say it so it's official - that was the worst I have ever seen an Everton player perform in a meaningful match.

And one final bit, for those getting in on the "Doctor Everton" theme that we seem to be good at maintaining: Newcastle had not won any of the past 10 final matches of a calendar year.

Paul Rimmer
119 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:52:42

Too many old timers. Distin, Barry and Alcaraz were never gonna keep a clean sheet even though the last two weren't really their fault. They looked leaky. They can all go. Pienaar can go too. Etoo can stay as an option from the bench. McGeady was poor and can go. Need to get our better players fit and new, fit and hungry players in. Thought Kone played well. Baines isn't a centre mid - Besic even if Sick would be better. Really need a centre half and a winger.

Jim Bennings
120 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:54:31

I think the next two games against Hull and the cup game versus the Hammers will decide if we are in a full blown crisis.

Losing those two, the game after that is Man City, then alarm bells won't be ringing they will be totally fucking smashed.

That will be a test of Kenwright's loyalty if we are still in a perilous position by the end of January.

Mark Taylor
121 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:44:15

At least there were some positives. I thought Kone was finished as a PL player but he was lively. Garbutt looks promising although defensively naive. And Mirallas at least isnt injured.

OK thats about it on the plus side. On the minuses: too many players out of position again (Baines, Etoo, Barkley), too many clearly past it (Distin, Barry), too many not good enough in the first place (Robles, Alcaraz, McGeady) and a few who look like theyve completely lost confidence and/or the will to fight (Coleman, Lukaku).

The defence was pure keystone cops, all three of their goals were horrendous defensive errors and there was a point at the end where I have never seen players so lost at sea. When we had the ball, for the most part it was the lethargic sideways crap we have become used to.

We scored two good goals by quick incisive passing and that should be our blueprint. Surely Martinez can see that once the opposition are set, we have nothing like the ingenuity needed to break well organised sides down? I loathe Souness, but he was spot on about this on Sky, we cant play this way because we dont have Messi, Iniesta and Xavi, we have Barry, Lukaku and Naismith.

Our options are very limited in terms of personnel but it would surely do no harm to give Besic and Oviedo a run, both look to have more spark in them than most of our current lethargic bunch. And the decision to spend our entire budget on Lukaku and not bring in a quaility defender who can organise things is looking very foolish right now.

Paul Dark
122 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:03:23

I think I'd take Laudrup now over Martinez.

Tahir Abdullah
123 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:04:25

Can't change?
Won't change?
Must change...

Chris Williams
124 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:52:14

Everybody is disappointed after another poor result and that is understandable but there were encouraging things to see today especially compared to the Southampton and Stoke results ( or any other shite performances this season)

Baines in midfield, both wide and Central looked the part, as did Garbutt on the left

Kone is better than Lukaku holding up the ball and maybe they could play together.

At times in the first Half they played three at the back with Three in central midfield , McCarthy and Baines pressing with Barry holding in front of Alcataz and Distin

Id like to see Besic McCarthy and Baines playing centrally with Garbutt and Seamus wide. Pace and bite and creativity( see that Baines pass for Mirallas) with Three central defenders but not Distin. It would be a lot more solis too.

All of a sudden there are different options I believe.

But maybe now isnt the time to raise things like this

Brian Harrison
125 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:51:12

Once again just like at Spurs did the hard part took the lead away from home and like the Spurs game showed very little intent on getting a second. Souness has just said if you keep asking players to pass the ball from their own box all the time then your asking for problems. Now why cant the charlatan see that. We never seem to show any great desire in crossing the ball into the box even today with seconds left Coleman still tried to dribble past 2 players rather than play it in early as he did for our goal. When we eventually get to within 30 yards of our opponents goal we look clueless.

I think Barkley needs to improve drastically if he is to become what RM and some pundits believe he will. I don't think he is an instinctive player who knows which areas to play in to hurt the opposition. He has a good shot in either foot and he can go past people but his decision making at times is terrible. Lukaku is a finisher that's it but seeing as we only had 13 touches in the Newcastle box compared to their 32 touches he wont get many chances with this style of football. So that begs the question if you wanted a centre forward to be a link up player why sign Lukaku.

Finally just heard RM say we have to keep believing in what were doing and not get distracted by other peoples views. So we can expect more of the same lets just pray we get enough points to keep us in the Premiership.

Len Hawkins
127 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:57:06

Manager pulls McGeady off? No McGeady must be pulling the manager off to get anywhere near Everton’s first team. What is he? Besides a walking disaster who can’t control a ball. He should be in court for stealing his unearned wages.

Bullshit Bill must be dreaming of the boys pen when there were no players as shite as this lot playing in Royal Blue.

Brian Abbott
129 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:14:46

Not really sure where the current situation has arisen but I think a number of things have to be accepted:

1) We have been sussed by everybody big style. Last season, up to a point, it worked. BUT... we are not Barcelona and the fact we are trying to be is faintly embarrassing if not outright fucking idiotic!

2) I've tried to think of any players who have played up to last season's standards. I can only come up with.... NONE!!! Where the fuck has that come from?

3) The Europa League still contains teams who would twat Stoke and Newcastle... Ergo FORGET IT!!

4) West Ham in the Cup do me a favour!

5) I've watched most of the games this season and, apart from a couple in the Europa League, we have NEVER looked to have a game under control.

6) Why do we have a manager who not only persists in playing a deluded style but compounds the fucking situation by playing people out of position? Who amongst us thinks that any of Barkley, Eto'o or Naismith are wingers!?!?

Moving on to the Newcastle game tonight. I'm not even going to start as I'd be here till fucking midnight. I will only say this and please respond. Are we the most unprofessional team in this league (and that includes QPR)? ... Discuss!!!!!!

Paul Dark
130 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:05:31

McGeady and Robles should never play for Everton again. Neither should've played in the first place ... ever.

There's too much that doesn't add up about Roberto Martinez - and the sums are just getting worse.

Mark Wilson
131 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:46:41

Three quarters of the way into last season opposing mgrs sussed out Roberto’s Everton. Instead of mixing it up a little style became dogma and now he’s finding it impossible to admit change is needed......unless we ease up on playing the ball out from the back line with 15 passes to the centre circle we will continue to lose stupid goals and virtually the worst defence in the league will get....worse.

Literally thousands of fans across the globe knew we needed an experienced centre back in the last week of the summer transfer window. It didn’t happen and injuries, suspensions, and ageing players / loss of form means we are horribly exposed in a defence that gets turned and beaten so often a few feet from our own goal line.

Players cannot cope with a mantra that insists on tippy tappy slow build up possesion football yet at the same time sees the basic shape / formation change almost every week.

Baines is a hero to me but from the moment he signed his massive contract he’s gone backwards and the world cup debacle did him serious damage, he’s just not the player he was, nor is Barry whose been poor since signing his perm deal. Barklay is starting to look very over-hyped which somehow is just so Everton, but I donfeel his confidence is shattered from being played as a winger when the one decent game he’s had against QPR he was played, correctly, in centre mid alongside a ball winning midfielder in Besic.

Truth is we haven’t played a decent full 90 mins all season and the manager has survived serious criticism it seems because he’s genuinely a decent chap.....hardly enough to protect him now though as frankly he looks lost, totally lost.

We just can’t go on after every game saying "don’t panic" it’s all going to be ok.....is it ? Really ? We are five points off relegation and don’t just need one good win......we need five on the spin. So what to do ? Wheel and deal in the window for sure. Couple of strong loan deals and at the very least a centre back and a left sided forward / winger. But most of all Martinez, call a squad mtg and let everyone have a say and hopefully go with a more solid 4-5-1 that has genuine shape and organisation and stick to it.

Dogs of war it may not quite be......but it needs to get close or this stylish decent man will come very near to taking us down. COYB......are we up for this fight ?

Amit Vithlani
132 Posted 28/12/2014 at 18:54:43

The whole thing stinks. No one seemed that bothered when Coleman was elbowed - where was the reaction from his team mates? Eto'o kicking the ball out in a promising position - sums up the "don't give a fuck" attitude.

Having made 7 changes it is clear the manager can't blame under performing players. Whoever he picks underperforms.

We simply did not chase, harry or press enough and we seemed so lackadaisical after going a goal up.

This smells of bad team spirit, lack of motivation and just a shambolic mess.

Sort it out Martinez, for your own sake.

John Malone
135 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:02:10

Can't remember feeling this low as an Evertonian for a good while and it's not because of the recent defeats, the thing that's worrying the most is the defiance the manager is showing in defeat I can remember watching his post match interviews at Wigan were he kept talking positive bollocks until finally they bit the bullet.

I understand Martinez has a footballing philosophy he is trying to implement but he has to understand it cannot be to the detriment of results or the club.

Souness has just hit the nail on the head we are giving too many poor goals away and have done all year, Martinez has to recognise the midfield and the centre halves are not good enough to play his way and another system needs to be adopted until he has the players to do so otherwise he will could easily be in a relegation battle and he will and should lose his job if it continues!

Daniel A Johnson
136 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:21:24

Whatever your thoughts on Moyes.

He laid the foundations, we were tough, hard working, hard to beat well organised/drilled and had a good set of honest pros who although weren't capable of touching greatness were honest and had a good team spirit.

Martinez is doing a good demolition job of whats gone before. No pride, no passion, slow, lethargic, lacking in effort, disorganised, sloppy.....................I could go on.

His team selections and tactics are just laughable.

The players just don't believe him, 4 points from 21 and counting.

Patrick Murphy
137 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:13:05

The only views that an Everton manager should consider is those fans that travel away, attend Goodison and watch all over the world on the internet.

If he means that Evertonians are the outsiders he is wrong - most of us care about the team and its fortunes more than we do some of our relatives and friends.

That may be wrong but it is also the reason why Everton remain a big club in the days of these mega-rich owners.

When I find myself agreeing with pundits and their simplistic but correct summaries I know that we are in trouble - because it is so blindingly obvious where the problems lie.

Swansea and Wigan supporters may have been more patient than Evertonians as they have spent a large part of their history in the lower leagues and anything beyond that is acceptable.

Everton are different, we are not as big as we used to be but we still have a large following who understand the basics of the game and at this moment in time we are getting most of the basics wrong ergo not enough victories and too many goals conceded.

Managing Everton is a difficult job for most people but what you have to do is get the fans onside first and foremost - not listening to the supporters is likely to lead to a parting of the ways. Roberto in the long-term may be proved correct, but we shouldn't be gambling our Premier League future on one man's vision - we won't get relegated I'm pretty sure but the current state of affairs is unacceptable and all the good work in the last two to three season's has been wasted and will not help us in the summer. Change your mind Bobby or change your club - it's your choice.

Kevin Dale
138 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:15:08

Sorry to say but our manager does not have a clue, playing players out of position never works, passing the ball around in our own half which invites the opposition to push up and press does not work, he tried this at Wigan and it did not work, we have good players being made to play to a style that's making them all look poor and its not working!!

Its been like this since the fist game of pre season! that's no blip.

I'm worried for our club!

Mark Palmer
139 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:11:39

Calls for RM to go seem unfair. His philosophy is the same as last year and it worked. This season, the squad is stronger yet the form of the players is awful. Mistakes, apathy, lack of passion, lack of quality (there's lots of that) are all very obvious and every player seems susceptible. RM, the fans and the club are being let down by piss poor performances on the pitch. RM can't play for them.

Roy Steel
140 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:28:15

Where do we go now? Too many players in this squad not near good enough... Distin, McGeady, Alcaraz etc.

Where was Besic today? The one true streetfighter who's up for the scrap.

If we lose to Hull, then we'll be sucked into it. I don't think it will come to that; I would still give RM 3 years provided we don't get relegated.

Daniel A Johnson
141 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:29:19

Wigan were always calamitous in their defending with individual errors and sloppy goals all round and they had a real lack of discipline. When they got beat they usually got hammered.

Unfortunately the lack of discipline and individual sloppy errors is creeping into pour game too.

Coincidence or not? We have the 2nd worst goals against record in the prem.

Charles Brewer
142 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:22:27

It's very depressing that the most positive sign is the return of a player who's just spent the better part of two seasons in rehab and cannot possibly be match fit, and who looks sharper than just about anyone else.

It would be hard to believe that the team is not more demoralised than the supporters.

My suspicion is that Mirallas is playing to look good so he can be bought, Barkley seems to have lost confidence and as for Coleman, where is the super confident "I only cost 60,000 so stuff the lot of you" approach which thrived no matter what the rest of the team was doing?

Frank Crewe
145 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:20:39

The team has no resilience. Everytime the opposition go in front or equalise we fall apart. We simply can't handle pace or consistent pressure on our defense. All the clubs at the bottom concede too many and don't score enough and we are no exception.

I believe that most sacked managers fundamentally sack themselves. The worse things get the more obstinate and blinkered they become until in the end the club has no choice but to let them go.

Martinez is in that position now. The worse it gets the more determined he is to stick to his "philosophy" no matter how bad it gets. Personally I think he's doomed. it's just a matter of time. I just hope the club don't leave it too late. If they let him go now then at least the next guy will have the January window to bring in a player or three.

David Flanagan
146 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:28:25

Numerous points which stand out are how slow we are particularly in defense and centre midfield. Barry's legs have gone and he is becoming more of a hindrance, giving away stupid fouls and bookings every game.We need younger legs in both areas.

The second point is the glaring lack of leadership and team spirit which seems to be getting worse every game. Decisions are going against us in most games but we never complain and just accept it. Pissed me off today in the first half when Eto'o has the ball in their box but one of their players was down and he put the ball out of play! We are far too nice and we play that way...

I fear for the future as I have no faith in the manager to change things. We had too bits of good play today which resulted in 2 goals but they were are only 2 shots on target.

Bob Martin
147 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:26:51

So you wanted Kone and Eto'o up front sometimes you want Distin to start then it's Alcaraz, then you think Barkley should be on the bench then he should play Jags ain't good enough, Barry's past it... Where's Besic? McGeady's shite, so is Pienar, Baines and Coleman are the best/worst fullbacks in the league.

We have one of the best young managers in Europe working with the best club and the most honest set of players we could wish for.. For fuck's sake they are having a tough time and they need us to get behind them we are all in this together and we should be ashamed of some of the comments posted on here. I won't accept they are not trying!! Or their commitments not there!!

The lads are doing their best to put this right don't you think they are not hurting as much as us tonight ?

Get real we have had a good few years and now it's time to dig in and SUPPORT OUR TEAM!! The good times WILL be back if we do that....

Andy Walker
148 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:35:11

Mark, a new 'philosophy' doesn't happen overnight. It takes time to slowly permeate the club. Moyes' habits and 'philosophy' were still factors last season, not least the backroom staff. Martinez has now had time to eradicate the Moyes influences and we see the result.

Sam Hoare
149 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:44:28

Martinez has talked alot about being ready for the second half of the season. Well he better be because January could be crucial to his future here. City, West Brom and Hull in the league with the Hammers in the cup.

Get less than 3 points and a place in the next round of the FA cup and I think the rumblings of discontent will begin to turn into a chorus of wailing.

Spotlight on you Roberto. We'll be watching.

MIke McLean
150 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:45:22

Average players getting more or less average results. You can only be disappointed if you felt this was a special squad.

Moderator's note: Claims of racism against Paul Ferry, another ToffeeWeb member, that we are unable to substantiate have been removed from this comment.

Colin Glassar
151 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:45:49

What exactly did Robles do so badly that he's getting so much stick? Was he at fault for any of their goals? I thought he got as much protection as Howard usually gets which is, zilch.

Ian Jones
152 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:42:47

Does anyone think Everton are missing Leon Osman?

Andy Walker
153 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:47:46

Daniel, completely agree. I have posted this many times in the past, but not for some time.

My opinion of Martinez being a poor manager was sealed when I watched Wigan away at Arsenal on Sky. It was close to the end of the 2013 season and Wigan had to win to stand a chance of staying up. Wigan took the lead, but rather than adapt their play, ie, protect their lead, they had the arrogance to keep trying to attack Arsenal. They ended up getting hammered, 4-1 from memory. Most of (maybe all) of the goals they conceded were down to bad defending. I couldn't believe the naivety of Martinez at the time.

He then, to my amazement, became our manager... fucking ridiculous.

Daniel A Johnson
154 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:52:27

Andy Walker (148)

You refer to Moyes habits being eradicated?

What like putting effort in? being organised? defending well? putting in some effort? giving a fuck?

Sure I was one of Moyes biggest critics but his teams were honest and at the very least put the effort in.

Martin Mason
155 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:34:34

I can only agree with all of the disappointed people whove already posted but for me the reality that we now have to face is that we dont have a great manager, he is a buffoon. Almost as bad is that we dont have a great squad but a squad of hand me downs and left overs that were easily beaten 3 times in the last 3 games by relatively poor teams. Far worse is that Englands best player for generations to come is a one trick pony and fraught with errors and hell be no better at 31. I darent go on but why not. Garbutt looked like a journeyman defender, Coleman like a full back from Sligo, Distin/Etoo/Barrie like players past their sell by date, Baines like somebody who just doesnt want to be there.

A positive? I couldnt see one only a sea of disappointment. I dont blame Kenwright and the Club, they have gambled everything on what may be seen to have been the final throw of the dice. Too good to go down? I believe we have a good board that would stop this but it could happen, when the rot sets in you can never see why and also never see why it couldnt be stopped. Crisis? Absolutely and you could see it on RMs face today. He is a worried man, not because of his next pay checks which will be fat but because he, like Everton, has been rumbled.

Andy Walker
156 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:56:56

Yep Daniel.

The one thing you nearly always got with a Moyes team was full commitment, organisation and effort. Rarely did we used to give goals away, the opposition had to come up with some good play to score, now they just need to have half a dozen attacks and they will probably create a great chance to score.

Daniel A Johnson
157 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:01:19

I agree Andy Walker

Moyes annoyed the fuck out of me at times after 8+ years

But you knew when they crossed the line effort and organisation would be there as a minimum.

Joe Clitherow
158 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:48:08

So I have asked the same question 5 times now without any response but I'll try again:

To those who "have no doubt" or who "have a feeling" Roberto will turn things around, what is the basis for this either in his behaviour in the recent defeats or in his past record? I have seen nothing at all to give any encouragement, nothing.

He's a nice guy Roberto, but that's no reason to keep him as he is a terrible manager IMHO. Sorry for repeating again, but his team is not fit enough for the PL.

I doubt I will have to post this question again as the RM apologists are rapidly dwindling, but I am genuinely interested in reasoned arguments for not sacking him, not just gut feelings. To me it is like watching water pour into a sinking boat and having a feeling it will stop sooner or later.

Separately, I'm at odds with posters who think BK will stand by him because I think he will act sooner rather than later. The reasons for this are that he backed Walter precisely because he did have the track record and was seen as a top manager at a beleaguered club; and despite the 17th place for DM he was never in danger because he took Everton away from relegation almost immediately in season 1 and we never really flirted with relegation in the poor season, we were safe and just fell quickly at the end. RM did this last season but he hasn't stopped since. That's a big difference. We are right now in an 8/9 month slump with no blue sky.

John Daley
160 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:05:46

"Numerous points which stand out are how slow we are particularly in defense and centre midfield"

Agreed.

We looked a very ageing side again today. Particularly the three players providing the spine of the team.

I know he's been a decent servant throughout his time here, but Distin's performances have been an absolute disgrace for such an experienced premier league player. What the hell was he doing during the build up to that first goal? The amount of times he's lost track of his man when a cross is hit in, or misjudged the flight of an aerial ball into the box during recent games is embarrassing. That positional incompetence is nothing to do with him being asked to play the ball out from the back, it's down to a failure to focus and a simple switching off at key moments. Slightest bit of pressure and his default mode is 'panic like fuck'... guy his size should be fucking dominating in the air and clattering people to their arse when going shoulder to shoulder.
His burst of speed and upper body strength has been his saving grace in recent seasons but now he looks completely shot and the sooner he calls it a day the better.

I said I had serious misgivings about pursuing Gareth Barry so doggedly after seeing how he creaked his way through the second half of last season. Once we got him, I hoped that, used sparingly, he could recapture the form he displayed after first arriving. However he's being flogged to death. Asked to start every game he's fit for and never being subbed, despite taking longer to lift his legs than the Tin Man with his foot trapped in the fucking train tracks. The amount of times he's been dispossessed whilst dwelling on the ball has definitely contributed to us being suddenly caught out at the back so often this season.

Another player whose best days are long behind him but is likely to be here for a long time yet is Eto'o. I just think he's been hopelessly over-hyped by a lot of Evertonians simply because the dying embers of class are still evident from time to time. Fact is, he was never a fucking playmaker or puller of strings, not even on his best days. He was a quality finisher with pace to burn... but the pace has long since packed it's bags. Yeah, he's a winner, but Everton certainly haven't been since he began being shoehorned into the side simply because he scored a couple of goals against Burnley a while back.

Colin Glassar
161 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:07:19

The players need to look at themselves as well. These are well paid pros who don't seem to know how to welly the ball upfield. Time and time again Distin, Alcaraz and Barry (combined age of around 200 years) were caught fannying around with the ball and got punished for it. I don't think Martinez tells them to be fucking useless and dopey it's just how they are. Bainsey a couple of times against Stoke and today just seemed to say, "Fuck it, I'm having a go!" and it seems to work.

The players need to take responsibility and sort things out on the field. They are professionals and, if they see things are not working, then they need to readjust. Like Cloughie used to say, "You can talk to them until you are blue in the face but, once they cross that white line, it's up to them to perform."

Si Mar
162 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:10:54

I thought Kenwright should've sacked Walter after the Tranmere game and I was dead set on Moyes getting sacked after the diabolical start to the 2005-06 season but he stuck with him and things got better.

My mind is all over the place about Martinez but if he was to go at this point I wouldn't be bothered. I'm fucking heart broken about the way we are playing and to quote an earlier post this week, I'm beginning to feel 'enough is enough'.

Who would we get? I was in the pub and people were saying Tony Pulis!!

Paul Ferry
163 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:15:22

I love your opening like, Michael (Kenrick) put a smile on my face on this gloomy day: Roberto Martinez shook things up a little with seven changes!

Anthony Lamb
164 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:50:05

It would certainly appear that this team is in free-fall. Although I have not seen the game today I am afraid that the result,and how the game seemed to progress after a bright opening, shows that the team (whatever team that takes the field) has simply lost the plot. The management of the squad of players by all concerned seems to be utterly shambolic. What Martinez's "philosophy" is I have no idea at all because if the evidence of it is what is being served up at present then it brings the term philosophy into disrepute!

Alarm bells must surely be ringing in Mr Kenwright's ears because the team is in a serious spiral of decline. He is walking a tightrope in allowing Mr Martinez to continue in this vein for the club is very seriously heading for the door. Who precisely do we think this team is capable of beating at present? Hull next? Of course we can beat Hull can we? The threat of relegation is now a very serious one and there appears to little evidence that those concerned seem to be grasping the nettle.

The players themselves, paid their obscene monies, seem relatively unmoved by the situation if their efforts on the field are anything to go by. It is well documented in these pages that in addition to a handful of very good players we have an equal number whose inadequacies on all levels are beyond belief? Names are well documented! There appears to be little evidence anywhere that this spiral can be halted. Obviously I hope it can.

Talk of "Europe" is a nonsense. The first half-decent team Everton next play and out they will go. The pressure at Goodison for the cup tie v WHU will no doubt be beyond this team to cope with as they have shown to be genuinely incapable of meeting real challenges on so many occasions this season.

I do not know what the answer to it all is. I do not envy the chairman his task of making some decisions very quickly but unless he does and unless the riot act is being addressed to all and sundry by the said chairman then this team will end up being relegated and never having been in the second tier since the 1950s it will be a very "dark and forbidding place" to get free from.

Michael Penley
165 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:02:51

It pisses me off that he keeps saying "everything that went against us did" as if the ref's always to blame. If we were 4-0 up then everything could have gone against us and we'd still win 4-3. It's an absurd excuse designed to protect his job, just like everything Martinez says and does. Good managers don't make excuses like that.

Sean Patton
166 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:07:28

Wigan this, Wigan that, Moyes this, Moyes that. There is a section of fans and I use the term loosely who have had it in for Martinez from the moment he was appointed and now at the first sign of poor form they are all wading in.

The golden boy St David had Everton in far worse positions than we are now or have his acolytes conveniently forgotten his disastrous starts to the season.

The only difference is the fear factor with some who think that Martinez can't reverse the current slump.

David Hallwood
167 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:48:47

Of all people Souness, had it spot on in his post-match analysis on Sky. Stop trying to play out of trouble, don't revert back to hoofball, but what's wrong in asking Mirallas & Lukaku to stay upfield what the opposition is on the attack, than just knock a ball in the area Roberto, I think its called a counter attack.

Souness pointed out that teams know that Everton play it out of defence, and just press us until we make a mistake. Personally I'm sick to death of conceding piss-poor goals despite the fact that that shots aren't exactly raining in from all sides Hull: one shot one goal, Stoke: ditto, Spurs: two shots two goals and so on.

What we need for the next six weeks is clean sheets, and lots of them, unfortunately I can't see this happening with the GK; if you put Howard & Robles in a blender you wouldn't get a decent keeper from the result. That is top priority in January.

Final point, not an excuse but we're getting nothing from the officials, soft penalties (vs Man City & Stoke City), what does a player need to do to us before they're red carded?

Colin Glassar
168 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:22:40

"Good managers don't make excuses like that" How long have you been watching football? Since yesterday?

John Daley
169 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:21:01

"The lads are doing their best to put this right"

If that were evident then I think there would be a lot less frustration/fuming on here.

Truth is though, there has been a baffling lack of fight or urgency in recent games, only resignation when it seems another game is slipping from their grasp.

Players jogging about at half-pace when the clock is ticking down and they're trailing is not trying 'their best' in my book.

Colin Glassar
170 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:27:30

Spot on Sean. Kick a man when he's down like.

Ian Smitham
171 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:58:32

Bob (#98), I wrote something similar earlier in the week. Do not wish adverse on Irvine, but it looks inevitable so maybe he could be JR's No 2. Appreciate it's not a long term solution, but maybe a quick fix.

Mike Childs
172 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:52:22

Colin, I totally agree with you that Robles not only doesn't deserve the stick, he certainly looked no worse than the other keeper.

I go to bed tonight hoping I awake to a new manager. Talk about being totally fooled. RM just doesn't have the kick-ass attitude needed at this level.

Joe Clitherow
173 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:29:05

"The only difference is the fear factor with some who think that Martinez cant reverse the current slump."

Do you think he can then? Why? How?

The slump is not the 3 defeats we've just had.

Facts are that 21 pts at exactly halfway projects to a relegation fight and our best form was early on in the season. We are in freefall going into the second half of the season

Colin Glassar
174 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:37:02

Careful what you wish for Mike, it might be Warnock.

Raymond Fox
175 Posted 28/12/2014 at 19:47:52

Well, we can't get a break of any description can we!

We were screwed by the ref at HOME last game! Now we get shot in both feet again by a ref who was not 15 yards away, looking straight at Cissé when he poleaxed Coleman! Nothing again! Then the man who shouldn't be on the field only goes and scores... you couldn't make it up. Also, he only goes and scythes down Baines from behind, nothing again!

Anyone that says we'll be relegated, get down to the bookies you can have 60-1 now, I'll give you 100-1. We might not be pulling up trees but luck will change before long.

Martinez will not be sacked by BK, nor do I think he should, he's not to blame for all our ills. Some of our players are past their sell-by dates, Barkley and Lukaku our two most so-called valuable players have been shocking, some others are not good enough for a team of our history, while the rest of them seem shell shocked by what's happening and that's not mentioning our injury history.

Well I don't know about you but I'm going to take a bugle to our next home game and make as much bloody noise as I can, because we need to get behind the team and the manager and scream like banshees at these biased refs, they might condescend to give poor little Everton a decision sooner or later.

We need to support the team more than ever now, why even MotD treats us like 2nd class citizens!

John Daley
176 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:38:12

"The slump is not the 3 defeats we’ve just had.
Facts are that 21 pts at exactly halfway projects to a relegation fight and our best form was early on in the season."

If we go on to lose against Hull that will mean the team has taken 27 points from the last 25 league games. 27 points out of a possible 75.

It’s now a bit more than the first seeds of shiteness.

Kevin Tully
177 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:33:33

Along with the majority of Blues, I want to see us play football. Quick passing moves, no hoofing, and definitely no ’Row Z’ just because they see another player putting them under any sort of pressure.

It seems to me that this style of play is unsuited to the Premier League. Even Chelsea are mixing up their style FFS. The Premier League is too frantic for a continental style of pass, pass, and pass again. You cannot take average players, and mould them into Barça.

Even though I want us to play this way, unfortunately, it won’t work with prime athletes are pressing the ball for a full 90 minutes. They don’t get tired anymore.

So, Roberto, either change your approach, or I’m afraid your days are numbered.

Joe Foster
178 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:32:43

We have been sussed that much that opposing managers can tell the pundits before a ball has been kicked how we play and how they are going to counter this. It's almost laughable.

Andy Crooks
179 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:31:40

Bob (#147), what on earth has Martinez done to suggest that he is one of the best young coaches in Europe? How can you seriously type those words?

Sean (#166), very few have had it in for Martinez from the start. I have praised and supported and believed for some time that this was a temporary slump. However, the performance of Martinez at Southampton was the worst I have witnessed by any coach at any level in my life.

The players seem totally demotivated, lacking in urgency and totally accepting of defeat. If Martinez is given time to turn this around, which I seriously hope he is not, will he then be given credit for solving a crisis entirely of his making? The Martinez project has the potential to destroy this club.

Mark Palmer
181 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:25:15

Andy (148), the RM philosophy I talk about is playing football. Yes, DM had a stingy defence but how many groans went up at Goodison every time Phil Jags hoofed the ball to the opposition 20 times a match. Evertonians were crying out for change.

Last season certain players were clearly shitting themselves at having to play the ball about but they got used to it and Everton won games, plaudits and respect as a result they were great to watch even when losing, at times.

The flavour of the moans this season is almost entirely either about quality and effort perhaps add team selection too. The last is RM's doing, the first two are down to the players.

Bobby Thomas
182 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:38:56

Sean #166

The first sign of poor form?

Generous.

We are a shambles. We have been disorganised and unbalanced most of the season.

That is totally down to the manager.

It is getting worse mot better and it is fair to say we will concede 60+goals. We are one dimensional, lack ideas and he has shelled 28 million oon a striker who doesnt even suit his system.

His other signings are over the top contracts for ageing players exacerbating the already pressing situation of an ageing squad. We really should mainly only be signing players 27 or under.

It is looking like the players aren’t having him and if it doesnt turn in the next few games I believe he should be sacked. I walked out of the Celta Vigo friendly concerned as we were all over the place, and I am now very, very worried.

The squad is an unbalanced mess and he is leading us to nowhere other than deep shit.

Kieran Riding
183 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:52:00

The fall out with Distin (and the fact that he actually went back to France and needed calling back as Stones got crocked) was the start of this complete loss of all form.

Some of our "top" players haven't played well since.

Sean Patton
184 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:50:34

Andy

Don't talk daft, mate, I know it is annoying and frustrating to watch at the moment, but "the worst performance you have ever witnessed"? I don't know if you have been indulging this past week but I can think of far worse from our old friends Smith and Moyes.

Steve Alderson
185 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:39:44

Where the fuck us Oviedo? I’m giving Martinez the benefit of the doubt at the moment but if he causes us to lose a class player who we can’t afford to let go then I will be glad to see him sacked.

Colin Malone
186 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:26:00

All you Alcaraz haters, get real. He our most composed player on the ball, as in the Stoke game, the lad had to bring the ball out of defence, because of our non-existent playmaker or midfield. He was my Everton player MotM.

Baines was a shambles in midfield, why was he put there? Just like Hibbert playing at left back against West Ham, knowing that we had a better player in the reserves (Garbutt)??

Roberto. Youre 41 years of age, unbeknownst to yourself, you have a lot to learn about the British game. As I said in my last thread, its time for the Dogs of War... swap Big Joe for Big Dunc.

Very depressed Blue.

Raymond Fox
187 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:51:56

Andy, it's not like we've been winning titles, honourable losers yes in the last 19 years, is that what we want to be honourable losers?

He has attempted/attempting to try a different approach which did us proud last year, but this year I tend to agree we have been sussed by the opposition in that they can see if our players are closely marked most are not good enough.

Let's get this League season out of the way and decide what happens in the summer. Whichever way we play, lack of money is our brick wall, but I think Moyes proved that, that type of play will only get us so far as well.

Colin Glassar
188 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:11:01

Forget Oviedo, Steve, he's finished as an Everton player from what I've heard.

Daniel A Johnson
189 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:09:02

Oviedo needs time to heal.

They had to open him up to remove screws. The holes in the bone need time to calcify and get strong. Plus Oviedo needs time to get fit and for his wound to heal. Takes time.

Kieran Riding
190 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:10:47

Colin, I'd quite like 'Big Dunc' to actually "Coach" our record-breaking centre-forward to be actually able to head a ball? You know, before he actually takes over the management of our first team.

Paul Dark
191 Posted 28/12/2014 at 20:56:47

Some really good posts above for and against Senor Martinez.

For me, it's the lamentable lack of coherence in what he does that is a problem. I didn't want Martinez but was converted by last season's performances (in the first half of the season). The arguments against him do seem to outweigh those for him. I can't but see that RM has created his own crisis.

I'm beginning to think he must go, I'm afraid. Names like Pulis are anathema to me though. We need an intelligent, dignified manager (like Laudrup?).

Paul Dark
192 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:13:54

Colin - why is Oviedo finished precisely?

Daniel A Johnson
193 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:12:37

It's strange how we have been supposedly sussed?

Moyes's starting 11 was predictable from one game to the next and we were predictable.

People say Martinez hasn't got a Plan B but did Moyes?

Yet it's strange how now we can be so tactically snuffed out.

Colin Glassar
194 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:15:18

It's been a rumour that won't go away, Paul. Apparently, they had a big barney (in Spanish) at Finch Farm. Oviedo's let it be known that he's not happy not getting any playing time since he recovered from his injury.

Kieran Riding
195 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:18:23

Colin, it's not due to injury though. That needs stating.

Colin Glassar
196 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:22:29

No, he's fine Kieran.

Joe Clitherow
197 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:21:26

Moyes's teams were at least fit enough for 90 minutes. Martinez's team plainly and obviously isn't. That's the first thing I would get sorted.

Daniel A Johnson
198 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:24:00

The rot started pre-season... what the hell has gone so wrong this year?

Joe Clitherow
199 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:23:48

Colin, why is Oviedo finished as an Everton player then? I can't see Martinez being here that long in all honesty.

Paul Dark
200 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:23:58

Moyes's teams weren't particularly fit - but RM's sides are so sluggish and lackadaisical. We play with a gentlemanly poise - when a crap team is beating us.

Kieran Riding
201 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:26:33

Colin, I know he is, I was just asking you to clarify it for the lads here as they know you!

Dave Abrahams
202 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:23:10

Colin Glassar (#188), if he's finished as an Everton player, why was he on the bench today?

If he's finished, he wouldn't be considered to even make the squad surely?.

Daniel A Johnson
203 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:27:46

Anyone else feel the Baines in midfield should have been a preseason tinker, not a call to make when in desperate need of 3 points away from home?

Barry McNally
205 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:49:40

If Oviedo is fully fit, he should be the first name on the sheet, at least has some guts not a bad player too!

Mick Wrende
207 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:59:46

Why can't you guys get it into your thick heads that it makes no difference who plays whatever side we put out we will be crap. Oviedo will add nothing with this joke of a manager.

Jack Cross
208 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:40:03

Daniel A Johnson (#189). Oviedo, has played since he had those screws out. Didn't he play in the last Europa League game? I think it's more likely to be something like Colin said why he isn't playing, a problem with Roberto.

If Barkley is world class and worth a reported £30-40 mil, all I can say is sell him. Maybe Moyes was right about loaning him out.

As for McGeady, he just isn't a Premier League player. Championship at best I'd say.

Kone looked pretty sharp and scored a good goal. It's a struggle though to say anything more positive than that. So I won't bother.

Craig Harrison
209 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:50:28

Daniel.

Hard to have a pre-season tinker when we didn't have a pre-season....

Jack Cross
210 Posted 28/12/2014 at 22:06:36

I just saw Roberto, on Sky, and he said last season's experience will get them through the remaining part of the season.

So why hasn't their experience of last season helped them so far?

I'm at a loss with the bollocks he talks.

Joe Clitherow
211 Posted 28/12/2014 at 22:04:22

Where has all this "Oviedo Superman" adulation come from? He scored possibly the most memorable goal of last season and then had a horrendous break, poor lad... but thats it. Ive seen him play a few times and he was... OK. He gets forward well but not a great defender and pretty lightweight.

Best left back at the club? What a load of crap. Last week it was Garbutt but he played today and we lost so it cant be him. The fact is that title still belongs to Leighton Baines; he just has no idea what he is supposed to be doing anymore like everyone else.

It used to be said that DM ruined strikers. Well this clown has ruined everyone, 1 to 11 (or 24 to whatever stupid number, if you prefer).

The problem with that is that other clubs will come sniffing round for excellent players out of form for knockdown prices and those players will not see any reason to stay. Then we really are screwed...

Martinez Out now! (Before its too late.)

Jay Doyle
212 Posted 28/12/2014 at 22:04:38

Martinez hasn't got the balls to admit he's wrong, and Kenwright hasn't got the balls to fuck him off. We'll all be playing with our balls in the Championship next season, without a fucking doubt. Martinez out now, before it really is too late...

Raymond Fox
213 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:54:22

Look, but let's get real.

We have not won anything for close on 20 years... it's not because Martinez is manager, or Moyes, or Walter Smith is manager. Joe Royle was the last to win us silverware in the form of an FA Cup. At least Martinez has matched that!

The real reason is the obvious one, as you undoubtedly know, it's that the cub haven't got or won't spend the money to buy a team that will bring us real success, end of. Depressing but true.

Moyes had a go for 11 years and won sod all but was lauded as a genius because he kept us competitive, honourable losers.

Martinez brought us some hope last season: he's the same guy this year but its going pear-shaped for various reasons which are not all down to him; some, yes... but mainly that other teams have nullified us and most, if not all the players have individually performed poorly up to now or who are simply not good enough.

Paul Smith
214 Posted 28/12/2014 at 21:30:09

It was better today going forward but the defending was shambolic.

The biggest worry for me was the players looked absolutely shattered, I'm not used to seeing Everton players unfit it's concerning to say the least.

Derek Thomas
215 Posted 28/12/2014 at 22:36:59

10 mins at the beginning and 10 mins at the end have lifted none of the pressure off Martinez or the players. Only Kone comes out with any credit, he looked 'good' but in reality his performance was only bog standard centre-forward 101 play but, compared with the rest of the team's efforts, stood out.

All of the questions of the last months still remain unanswered...

Chris Gould
216 Posted 28/12/2014 at 22:51:40

People need to stop banging on about last season. We had a great first 3 quarters of the season but then faltered. Why? Because we got found out.

Every manager in the Premier League now knows how to play against us. They worked it out in the last quarter of last season and the formula is there for all to see. Martinez is a fraud.

Jack Cross
217 Posted 28/12/2014 at 22:39:02

Joe Clitherow (#211). I might be wrong but I don't think Mirallas has signed a new contract yet. Wasn't there some talk of him wanting Champions League football? So he could be up for grabs at the end of the season. As you say, knockdown prices at the end of a poor season would leave us in deep shit.

Stew Marsland
222 Posted 28/12/2014 at 23:14:23

The team is totally teriffied of expressing themselves because they are told to keep to a certain pattern which they do not agree with. It's completely obvious they are not happy and this is ultimately leading to conflict in the dressing room. Something is very wrong here; I don't know exactly what... but it has to be sorted and quickly.

Joe Clitherow
223 Posted 28/12/2014 at 23:09:48

Raymond 213

I'm not talking about winning trophies, I'm talking about even competing in matches.

Martinez won an FA Cup, sure, but not for us... so I don't give a toss. He also relegated that team in the same week, so I would prefer the Everton/Wigan symmetry of FA Cup plus relegation was NOT repeated.

Watching MotD at the moment and IMO every single team bar none looks both fitter and better organised than us.

As for money, please don't go there as this guy has been backed to an unprecedented degree for an Everton manager in recent times, for both the #1 and #3 of Everton's record signings (we made a big profit on #2). He has spunked away a ton of money very badly in my opinion, either paying above market value or in throwing away hugely inflated salaries and long contracts to players way past their best days who will have zero sell-on value. So, as well as dismantling the playing side, the prudent financial side of buying and selling young players has also been heavily eroded. Dropping quite a few places down the table will cost the club several million pounds right there also.

You said "get real"; there's a dose of reality...

Phil Walling
225 Posted 28/12/2014 at 23:08:57

With four ex Wigan players on the field and no less than five who coached them to relegation supervising their efforts today, what other than dross can you reasonably expect?

Neither those players nor the staff are worthy of representing Everton Football Club. Get rid, BK, NOW!!!

Clive Lewis
226 Posted 28/12/2014 at 22:29:33

I would have Moyes back any day; I cannot stand watching this anymore and the alternatives are just as bad.

I want to see commitment & hard work. I can put up with dithering and the odd strange sub... I can even put up with losing a few; however, I cannot put up with this disorganised team with no obvious defensive management.

I cannot put up with knowing that this is it and there ain't going to be any change in commitment or any silver lining. Martinez out now.

Andy Crooks
227 Posted 28/12/2014 at 23:38:51

Sean (#184), I really must stand by my comment. For me, the Southampton game changed it. From team selection to team set-up, it was poor. However, the decision that no substitutions were necessary sealed it for me.

We never looked like scoring, we were second best in every area but our coach thought it best to keep it the same. It seemed to me that we had a charlatan who is not fit to manage our club.

I have seen some poor stuff over the years but Martinez is the first coach we have ever had who is content with it. He must be paid whatever it takes and sacked.

Paul Hewitt
228 Posted 29/12/2014 at 00:07:07

Bobby has turned a well-drilled defensive sound team into a shambles in 18 month. THANKS!!

Mike Price
229 Posted 29/12/2014 at 00:18:30

Joe (#223), spot-on comments. Transfers and contracts are going to be millstones round this clubs neck for a long time.

Ive never seen a softer, nicer Everton ever, and it was obvious ages ago. No leaders, no aggression, no nastiness, no verbals, its utterly pathetic, players and management alike.

We need at least an average goalie and a few gobby, aggressive bastards really quickly, or well be in a major negative spiral. People keep criticizing a Joey Barton or a Cahill but we need some men and characters to change the dynamic. Trouble is, I dont see our manager stooping to such a pragmatic place as its against his philosophy and he wouldnt get on with that type of character.

I think were all in a bit of shock after the promise and hope of last season but the manager was complacent and lazy with regards to signings, contracts and pre-season. We could end up paying a very big price.

Paul Hewitt
230 Posted 29/12/2014 at 01:38:54

Mick@207 no-one will listen till we're down, mate.

Bob Parrington
231 Posted 29/12/2014 at 02:07:36

Two positives from todays game. First, 2 great Everton goals and second, Luke Garbutts relatively good performance.

I dont wish to dwell on the list of negatives it would be too long!

Peter Barry
232 Posted 29/12/2014 at 02:15:16

Insanity is described as keeping repeating and action hoping to get different results. By that definition, Everton are insane.

I must admit that I too was taken in by Roberto last season but, this season, my eyes have been opened.

It started with an absolutely pathetic shambolic pre-season and that was just the start it has been all downhill from there. But hey we have the same manager and the same coaching staff and far too many of the same players that got Wigan relegated because they couldn’t defend and oh how it shows.

So we have just got what we deserved by allowing Roberto to do it HIS way when it should be patently obvious now even to the most devoted Evertonian that Roberto’s way leads to the Championship.

Michael Penley
233 Posted 29/12/2014 at 02:23:33

Insanity is described as repeating the same thing over and.... oh wait, we’ve already had that quote repeated hundreds of times in the past week. Perhaps it is the fans who are insane as well.

Anto Byrne
234 Posted 29/12/2014 at 02:36:16

Alan Stubbs would sort out the defense.

Colin Malone
236 Posted 29/12/2014 at 07:50:01

Square pegs in round holes yet again. When was the last time Barkley played in his rightful position? I cannot remember. Why won't Martinez play him there?

Zahir Jaffer
237 Posted 29/12/2014 at 07:59:51

Forget about winning games, I've forgetten what a clean sheet feels like.

Zahir Jaffer
238 Posted 29/12/2014 at 08:09:35

Just out of curiosity, is there any way we can go to their training sessions and see exactly what the fuck theyre up to? I dont believe spamming the web with our frustrations is going to change much as I doubt the players have the time nor the knowledge/interest to hear what their people are saying. Or they already assume it but assuming the feeling and experiencing it have different impacts.

As I recall, were called the Peoples Club and I definitely want to attend one of these training sessions with at least a hundred of you, as one man alone wont even be noticed, to tell them to buck the fuck up, and voice what you all are saying.

The teams morale must be at an all-time low therefore our attempt to make ourselves heard and proceed to question them must be done with precaution and diligence. If Im being out of line or not being realistic, then I ask what approach would you take as a beloved Evertonian?

Mark Palmer
239 Posted 29/12/2014 at 08:36:08

Colin #186. Hear, hear! Alcaraz is certainly our most composed centre-back. Pity about his age but have him teamed with Stones at the back every match. He needs an injury-free run in the team to iron out his game. Phil Jagielka is consistently playing and consistently error-prone and loses possession too easily.

Jim Gore
240 Posted 29/12/2014 at 08:47:33

I'm getting fed up saying the next game is a must-win, but surely if we can't get something against a Hull side who just got beat by Leicester, then we are knackered...

Alex Winstanley
242 Posted 29/12/2014 at 09:07:29

I loved Roberto last year, but I am afraid my love is ebbing away. Not only is he unable to see what the majority of us know, ie, We need to mix our playing strategies, but he is beginning to sound like "Chemical Ali" during the Iraq War. His latest mantra that all is well and that he is "excited about the future" is embarrassing!

I am beginning to cringe whenever he is in MotD! FFS Roberto, take a leaf out of Mourinhos book and keep the opposition guessing as to what tactics Everton are going to employ!

Raymond Fox
243 Posted 29/12/2014 at 08:34:32

As I have said elsewhere you can get 60/1 us being relegated.

Last 2 games we've been mugged by the ref. Stoke should have been down to 10 men, then he gives a soft penalty and that's at Goodison! Yesterday, he was looking straight at at Cisse when he poleaxed Coleman, again nothing, also Cisse should have been sent off for his tackle on Baines later, zilch. Nothing at the moment is favouring us, we can't get a break to save our lives.

Can we stop going on about them not being fit? It's the players individually that are not performing that's the biggest trouble, not fitness.

By the way, we're 12th not 20th; as I said before, you can get 60/1 on relegation.

I'm not saying Martinez is blameless, he has been attempting to play a style of football that half of the players are not skilled enough to do. He's tried changing the team but that hasn't worked for us this season, unlike last season.

The players need to stand up and be counted, I don't think there's one player performing well... Lukaku and Barkley have looked terrible this season, they have been found wanting.

As far as the defence is concerned, they must be the most experienced in the League they shouldn't need to be told how to defend. They did well on the whole last season; this season, they have been shite. The central defenders have been very poor and need replacing; it's looking like father time has caught up with them.

Lee Gray
244 Posted 29/12/2014 at 09:57:43

Roberto will have to go, unfortunately the job is too big and he WILL take us down.

Concede goals = lose football matches. Not rocket science.

Harold Matthews
245 Posted 29/12/2014 at 09:51:11

I don't know why people keep making excuses for Barkley. He never stays in the position allotted to him and is as idle as the day is long. When not on the ball, he is either standing still or strolling.

We all know about his ability. It would be nice if he showed a bit of urgency now and then and bust a gut for the royal blue shirt.

Bob Parrington
247 Posted 30/12/2014 at 08:41:32

Raymond #244 Coleman has also looked out of sorts this season as well. Baines, too. There has to be something wrong in the changing room. We need (RM needs) to find out where the shit is starting. We all know the team can play well, with the occasional blip, so wtf is happening?

Colin Glassar
248 Posted 30/12/2014 at 09:09:56

Sorry all you Pulis fans, looks like your man is going to WBA or even Newcastle. Warnock is still available though.

Paul Andrews
249 Posted 30/12/2014 at 09:15:18

Morning Colin,

We should jump in for Warnock pronto before he gets snapped up.

We have already missed out big time on Pulis

Michael Allanson
250 Posted 30/12/2014 at 11:21:56

Now the dust has settled on another poor display, I have a few thoughts to share.

Firstly this has not become a crap side overnight. At crucial points last season, we blew up goodstyle, notably at Arsenal in the FA Cup and vs Liverpool at Anfield.

The main problem seems to be a lack of tactical nous from RM when things arent going to plan and a chronic lack of pace in key areas. You cant play Barry, Etoo & Distin in the same team. Against Newcastle, the energy of Tiote etc exposed us as unable to match a team when they go up a gear. Once a team goes ahead against us, it appears to be game over.

I have thought that RM should go but that was after the Stoke game where we were awful again and id frozen my nuts off and had Christmas spoilt.

My thoughts now are that RM needs to adapt quickly and go back to basics. We need solidity not flair, Kone showed more energy than Lukaku and the Baines - Garbutt partnership shows promise. In the middle Id ditch Barry for Besic, Barry slows the game down allowing the opposition to be set and ready for the inevitable giveaway.

There are no replacements for Martinez who are any better... so much as I dont like it im afraid its a case of better the devil you know.

My last point concerns Barkley the lad is the brightest thing at this club. He is constantly played out of position yet he tries every game to turn it around. You only have to see how hard he tries to see how much he cares. If fans want to keep getting on his back, its the surest way of driving him away. Youll soon see how good he is when hes being brilliant in a Chelsea or Man Utd shirt.

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	Team	Pld	GD	Pts
14	West Ham United	38	-13	40
15	Bournemouth	38	-34	39
16	Nottingham Forest	38	-30	38
17	Everton	38	-23	36
18	Leicester City	38	-17	34
19	Leeds United	38	-30	31
20	Southampton	38	-37	25

Brilliant start by Kone horribly squandered

Newcastle United 3 - 2 Everton

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