Barkley scores as England win in San Marino

This would give Premier League players a chance to get ready for their up-and-coming games real premier opposition with their respective clubs - it's not as though England players have met for the first time.

It's official Gareth Bale is now ahead of England in the world rankings.

Fair dos though I have an affinity for Wales (other than Michael Owen) having worked there for a number of years.

Seeing them in a major tournament after 58 years is brilliant.

Fuck Engerland and its phoney southern support...

But after reading your comment (15) about England? I'm it's Northern support. So where do I stand?

I don't mind anyone supporting their own country but please, I don't want to hear anyone slagging off England like I have to listen to, day after day from the so-called English media.

All I ask is, as I'm an Everton and "Engerland" supporter could you please just for once, give me a break?

Looking forward to the Chelsea game. It should be a great atmosphere.

It's good for Wales (and likely N Ireland) but it shouldn't be forgotten that this is largely down to the finals being extended from 16 to 24 teams.

Given Wales are now ranked above England, they'll surely romp to Russia 2018 qualification right?

Oh shower of Scotland....

Dave #18 - always good to hear a balanced view, sounds like you've got a chip on both shoulders.....

Come On England and here's to Stones running the show.

On a slightly different theme, there is the question of whether Wayne gets his hat-trick against San Marino and thus becomes England's most prolific goalscorer? I hope he does, he has made a great career for himself and he may yet end up lifting a trophy for the national side. (Yes! I've had too many bottles of Sam Adams last night!)

They pondered Rooney's attainment on the radio, and offered alternative names for the national side's "best ever" goalscorers. Two other exEvertonians were mentioned, namely the great Tommy Lawton and the peerless Dixie Dean. It's part of EFC's rich history that we have provided players who have gone on to be England stalwarts (Ball, Labone, Lineker) and Stonesy will put on that armband one day I am sure.

Interesting to read that Rooney refused to join United when he was 14, also when he was 16. Fergie says it was very difficult to get him away from Everton.

W A LES!!!!

Keep up, man!!!

Hart; Clyne, Shaw, Stones, Jags; Shelvey, Milner, Barkley, Oxlade-Chamberlain; Vardy, Rooney

I wonder if Roy is pairing Stones with Jags rather than Cahill (whom the media will tell you is a vastly superior defender because he plays with John Terry) because he thinks it works better, or to avoid controversy?

Plus with him being a Nosferatu look-a-like he'll be good in the night games.

I always think they represent knuckle heads from down south regardless who plays.

You think Evertonians have suffered? You should be a Welsh Evertonian then you would know a thing or two about suffering.

C
O
LIN wake up for fuck's sake.

Stones, Baines, Jagielka and Barkley all currently in the first team with Osman, Cleverley, Lennon & Barry all either ex-England or potential recalls.

Add to that a large group of youngsters in the youth teams. Probably the biggest Everton contingent since the mid eighties!

ps: If you think all Premier League footy is exciting you're deluded.

Didn't Lescott get the armband at some stage in that game of about 9 subs and the player going off passed the armband on? I think there ended up being about 6 different captains in the same game

I am a big Rooney fan and he has scored some great goals. However, Rooney's goalscoring record shouldn't compare to Bobby Charlton's simply because, when Charlton was scoring his international goals, it wasn't against teams like Moldova, Lichtenstein or San Marino.

A lot of these ''teams'' weren't around then as they where part of bigger countries before breaking up due to the demise of the Iron Curtain and other factors.

As for England, I agree that International football can sometimes be a bit dull but I still love the big Championship games so I don't understand why people slate the qualifiers and the fact we play against rubbish teams quite a bit.

What would you prefer, just have all the top teams turn up every few years and not bother with any qualification matches simply because those countries mean nothing to you? National pride still exists even if they lack the strength and talent to win enough games to get there.

It's a very modern, blinkered, selfish view to say a lot of things in this thread, bordering on xenophobic at times. Football is the people's game, the world game, the simple, beautiful game that everyone loves; let them all play, let them play against the best... it's all part of the rich tapestry of the sport we all love. Call me an old romantic, but I still believe in the spirit of football, even if it's being ruined by money and greed at the higher echelons.

Go and watch a non-league or Sunday league game once in a while. Remind yourself.

I asked the question hoping someone might know the answer.

Certainly and rather amazingly no Everton player has ever captained England at the start of a game.

I don't recall the Lescott one but, as you say, the armband can get passed around a bit in friendly games.

I think you might find Jill Scott or another EFC lady may have mate. Not sure, but we had over half of the Women's team before money raised its ugly head in the Ladies game.

Colin, when you have been in the wilderness for 50-odd years, the prospect of nirvana is certainly appealing. How you get there or who delivers that promise is neither here or there. The fact that it is a possibility is what counts and to live for the moment (to use Roberto's phraseology).

Do I consider this Welsh side so highly? They are certainly on the verge of achieving something far better than some of their more illustrious predecessors could.

Perhaps a half-decent team with one or two stars is what we would all like.

Exactly right. Piss-Poor Planning.

A record is a record.
Too many wanting to pull Rooneys achievements apart.
One of the biggest mistakes is the often repeated "Rooney never fulfilled his potential"

Top scorer for England ahead of all the great names.
He will be top scorer for Utd ahead of some all time greats.
Not bad for a Croxteth kid

Rumour Mill now has Yarmolenko on his way to Barca in January. How could he ever choose them over us?

Absolute myth about Charlton scoring against top quality opposition and Rooney's coming against weak sides.

He was certainly not averse to filling his boots against weakened sides. Not only 5 against Luxembourg, but 5 against the USA (and they were a much different proposition in the 60s) and another hat-trick against Mexico in an 8-0 victory.

The international fixture list looks very different to 50 years ago with a lot more qualifying games but those that like to belittle Rooney's achievement in being England's joint top scorer EVER are clutching at straws.

The blot on Rooney's international career has been his relatively poor tournament record but of course even here people conveniently forget he was the best player in 2004.

Also, congrats to Rooney for equaling Sir Bobby's scoring record although I've always thought Lineker's goals per game record with England was that much more remarkable.

By the way, Graham, are you not belittling Bobby Charlton's goalscoring record for England in one of your paragraphs.

Not at all, never saw him play personally but I was just pointing out if you play 100+ internationals you are going to go against some weaker sides. And anyone who gets a goal every other game over such a long period is a very good player.

I often hear the line that the reason Rooney has scored so many goals is because he has done it against poor opposition but never any mention of Charlton's goals against poorer sides. I don't think it devalues either player.

My own personal England scorer was and is Jimmy Greaves, absolute class and a very modest footballer; no hysterics when he scored, just a little hand up in the air and he jogged back to the centre line, just marvellous to watch. I never begrudged him a goal, even when it was against the Toffees.

I place him third behind Best and Bally as the greatest outfield players I've seen in the flesh

Dave (#78),
Totally agree about Jimmy Greaves; made it look so easy and he is indeed a very humble, genuine man

As for England goalscorers, of all the players who have scored more than 10 goals for England, only a handful have averaged more than one goal a game — one, of course, being The Great Man.

The best player I ever saw (only on TV) was Alfredo Di Stefano, who played for three countries plus Real Madrid. He played as a striker but could have played in any position on the field, he was that good; again, another player with a great temperament.

I can attest to him being a nice guy. I played golf with him once and, even in his 70s, he was too good for me.

File that one under name-dropping!!

I recall as a 12-year-old watching England hitting 5 or 6 goals against Turkey for the Italia 90 qualification and they were then deemed a waste of time but look at them now. A tough game.

Just think of all the World Cups we could have won when we deemed ourselves far too superior to play in tournaments. Now we have one World Cup to our name not impressive for the country of origin!

For me, Rooney will never be in the same bracket as the greats for that very reason, or until he does.

That being said, the record books will only quote the number of goals scored.

As for out-and-out goalscorers then Greaves was undoubtedly the best 44 goals in 57 games for England. Especially when both Charlton and Rooney took over 40 games to pass his total.

I was also lucky enough to see Di Stephano, Gento and Puskas play live against Man Utd in the late 50s. Best team at the time, wish I could have seen that side play the Barca team of a couple of years ago.

The Manchester United side of the late '60s (Stepney, Foulkes, Charlton, Law, Best etc....) was really a great team and were generally given a good reception wherever they played, unlike Leeds who everyone hated.

Charlton B is always compared to Eusebio in my mind.

He is just about recovering now and his great talent shows through almost despite himself, as it did last night when he was still gripped by dread of offending Roy, but was able to produce that lovely run for the Walcott goal and then the equally lovely pass for Kane late on which Harry duly fucked up.

There is no-one, apart from Wilshere at his best, who offers that sort of ability for England. I said on another thread last week that I no longer saw Ross as a number 10 but when he plays spontaneously and without thinking too hard, he is a joy to behold.

But if Uefa sanction this nonsense, you can only judge the players on how they perform when called upon to do so. As far as inspiring kids, I don't know of too many who aspire to play for Burscough – and I live here!

The games they played immediately after Munich must have been some of the most emotional football matches ever played anywhere in the world. I think the first one was against Sheffield Wednesday in the FA Cup on mid-week night game. Poor Wednesday... the whole of the country wanted United to win; they did, 3-0, if my memory is correct.

Last night, he set up two, scored one, played high and deep, showing he can be flexible and tactically aware. I also thought Shelvey played well yesterday

Oh for a left winger like Moggsy in our current team, just what we need. Hard as nails and a brilliant crosser of the ball from the left.

As for John, now that he knows his future is with us, maybe he will focus on getting back to his best.

I may not mean the words being aimed at those individual human beings (although Smith is quite unpleasant), but the general sentiment is one that is very, very close to my heart.

You're right, Smith was basically a coward who picked on players who wouldn't or couldn't react to his bullying; however, when he came across someone like Morrissey he'd give them a wide berth. Morrissey was a terrific winger with pace, skill and a great crosser of the ball as well as being hard as nails, hence the oft told story regarding Jack Charlton and his little black book. Yeats, though, off the field, was a real gent and a proper football man.

I also remember Bobby Charlton being interviewed and recalling how United rarely came away from Goodison with as much as a point, he was very generous in his remarks about Everton as a team and a club. Good man. Tremendous player.

Going to Wembley in 1966 from the Leprechaun, a pub off Scotland road, the whole coach was singing,

"Oh the sheer delight of a Wednesday night When Inter Milan scored three And big Ron Yeats nearly got sent off For pushing the referee Oh the sheer delight of a Wednesday night When Inter Milan scored three."

Etc etc, there was quite a few verses which I can't remember now. It was in relation, for younger readers, to Liverpool getting knocked out of the European Cup.

The best at CB and CF, the best header of a ball ever, the Italians would play him CF first half and when he'd scored (often a header from outside the box), play him at CB and defend the one-nil lead!

Also, perhaps the most gentlemanly player ever: never even cautioned, I think.

The greatest Welsh player of all, Roy Vernon. He played with a very good Welsh team in early '60s. The Allchurch brothers, Ivor and Len; Cliff Jones, Terry Medwin, wingers at Spurs; Mike England, Blackburn and Spurs; Phil Woosnam, Wynn Davies, a few names that the Welsh fans of that era would recall.

The Blues had a Welsh lad who played a few games, Gerry Humphreys. I went to see England Under-21s (or was it Under-23s?) versus Wales youngsters. Howard Kendall and John Hurst played and Gerry played for the Welsh side at Wrexham"s ground.

Gerry Humphreys was in the Everton team that annihilated Leicester City 7-1 at Goodison in 1968. I think Peter Shilton was making his debut that day.

COYB

I worked in London in the early '60s and saw Spurs, Arsenal, Fulham and very little of Chelsea. The ones that stand out were Blanchflower, Cliff Jones, Medwin, then Venables and the hard man Mackay. Arsenal signed George Eastham after a court case and had Kelsey in goal and others that I can not recall at the mo, but two of the best were Johnny Haynes and Jimmy Greaves.

As I said, happy days – would you believe I was a Burnley supporter back then and what a team they had!

Hard man of Anfield left soon after that.

A pal of mine ran a Gentleman's Evening with Smith as a guest, and someone had provided an Everton shirt, along with other items, to be raffled for charity. Smith threw it on the floor and wiped his feet on it. An odious get of the first order.

I remember someone saying, "If people grow to look like their dog, what kind of a fuckin' dog did Smith have?"

I have just watched Muck and Brass on Dvd. I would recommend it to anyone who was young in the seventies. Eugene, despite the absence of Madeleine, you will love it, especially the hair styles.

With so many friendlies now, it will only be a matter of time before a class striker will break the goal scoring record again.

Still baffling though, he only played for England for 5 seasons between 1927 & 1932, making just 16 appearances and scoring 18 goals.

Any of the older generation know why Deans England career ended in 32?

We don't have the quality in depth, so playing as we do is an absolute must and I've been calling on Wales to do it for as long as I've had hair on my balls.

Playing this way with high tempo, men pressing and hunting in packs is just what we've been calling for Roberto to do.

Throw in a few quality player's e.g. Ramsey and one of the World's best and we've had a formula for success.

Young George Williams of Fulham (currently injured) is a player that I rate highly that I'd like Roberto to have a look at; he's very quick and skillful.

We have some good youngsters coming through that should help with the quality and depth for the qualifying campaigns following this one.

Ashley Williams has been immense, is a great leader and CB, I'm glad the RS never snapped him up.

England - mostly always had players good enough, but rarely (Robson & Venables aside) a good enough manager.

The English FA have made some shocking decisions as far as the managers they have chosen, the latest being the perfect example.

Who can forget him taking a penalty at Wembley in front of a watching nation on world TV, then having the cheek to blame an Everton fan for reporting him to the dole, and having his claim for disability stopped.

He would have achieved more for his club and Scotland but sadly he was struck down by lightening on a golf course, a tremendous footballer.

I never tire of posting about the goal he scored against Wednesday in the sublime 68-69 season... first time shot from the Goodison Road corner of the Gwladys St penalty area, straight into the opposite corner past Ron Springett.

That season was the best ever in my humble opinion.

I was at the Blackburn Rovers game in 1964, but the result was 2-1 to us. Derek Temple and Alex Scott scored. The match was in March. I remember there was a smallpox outbreak in Lancashire, people were warned not to gather in crowds. The love of the Blues won.

I think when Roy Vernon scored, was before that season. If you went back to Bevington Bush John, it must have been with Sunniways coaches. Went on the long journey to Swindon with them for the FA Cup in 1963.

I know it was Grand National day, and know we sang "Team Spirit". It must have been to many "Aussie Whites".

Thank you for the kind words, Andy; I think, though, that there are posters on here with a greater longevity and a more eloquent turn of phrase that would do more justice to an article on days gone by!

Incidentally, am I right in assuming that the Madeline to which you refer in your comments to Eugene is Madeline Smith? As you may recall from a former thread, Eugene is President of the Dirty Old Man brigade. The thread was "We're Evertonians" and you can catch up with it by putting that in the search option in the top right of the main page. Rather amusing, and why I love ToffeeWeb, an innocent article veers off on a tangent towards the crumpet that middle aged men used to fantasise about...