Martinez might get another season – but does he deserve one?

17/02/2016  46 Comments  [Jump to last]
Rob Vera is this week's View from the Gwladys Street contributor at the Echo's website and he pulls no punches in assessing Everton's failings under Roberto Martinez — there has been little by way of improvement in terms of results this season.

Ultimately, for all the talk of bad luck, this team's primary consistency has been in finding ways to capitulate at key moments and junctures. If the West Brom match was simply an outlier that would be one thing. But when “bad luck” happens over and over and over again, it becomes a trend. And when a trend persists, it ultimately defines you.

For the vast majority of this season, Everton have found ways — often beyond all logical defiance — to snatch defeat (or dropped points) from the jaws of victory. They’ve been unable to step up and deliver when the match was in the balance. The manager talks about embracing the lofty expectations that come with managing Everton. But what does accepting expectations mean if those expectations are consistently unmet?

» Read the full article at Liverpool Echo


Reader Comments (46)

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James Thornhill
1 Posted 17/02/2016 at 20:31:05
NO! He doesn't – even if we finish top 7 & get to another semi-final. Even Brenda Rodgers got to the semi-finals of two cups last season, and he is an absolute clown.
Stephen Brown
2 Posted 17/02/2016 at 22:10:06
Winning the cup and top 8 should allow another season. I won't hold my breath?!
Anthony Dwyer
3 Posted 17/02/2016 at 00:05:41
If Roberto wins the FA Cup and finishes top 8, I will personally protest bollock naked on City Road, asking Bill and his board to give Roberto a decade-long contract.

I will do all that even though I can't stand the fact we have Roberto at the helm of my beloved football club.

The reason I will do it is because Roberto doesn't stand a chance of winning the cup, as he is nowhere near good enough to win the FA Cup again; no one person is that lucky.

For me, Roberto has to go asap, as we have a good little squad that could really kick on if we had the right man in charge.

Jose, Koemann, De Boer, Hiddink are the names I'd go in search of; think big and become big. The Premier League is the place to be and, other than Manchester United, no bigger club than us will be searching for a manager, so let's show some bottle and think big for once.

James Stewart
4 Posted 18/02/2016 at 02:24:04
In a word, no.
Peter Gorman
5 Posted 18/02/2016 at 02:27:09
As he is taking the club nowhere we want to go, a pretty straightforward no. No thank you even. Good manners cost nothing.
Peter Barry
6 Posted 18/02/2016 at 02:37:45
No – and it will be to Everton's everlasting detriment if they give him one.
Matt Traynor
7 Posted 18/02/2016 at 04:34:33
Anthony (#3), why do you think any of those managers would choose Everton? Right now, we're still no closer to being taken over (and with any takeover there could be uncertainty that might be off-putting to a prospective new manager).

Under the current custodians, we've never had any investment other than TV money and by selling players, which particularly for Mourinho would be a non-starter. Most of those names are also on much bigger pay packets than we've historically offered.

Some managers can be just as mercenary as (some) players, and given that we're competing with more teams in the Premier League who are just as cash rich as us under the new TV deal, plus China's emergence, why do you assume we'll have our pick of managers with the credentials of those you suggest?

Jay Harris
8 Posted 18/02/2016 at 04:59:21
Personally, I wouldn't give him till next week, never mind another season.
Lawrence Sharp
9 Posted 18/02/2016 at 05:13:13
He has to go. Now. We have one of the best back four line-ups in the Premier League, but we leak goals at an embarrassing rate, which is surely an indication that the manager is teaching those lads the wrong things.

And we have tremendous quality and talent in the squad, but we've been abjectly poor for more than a season and a half now. He's taken us backwards, and will continue to do so for as long as the chairman allows it.

Christopher Timmins
10 Posted 18/02/2016 at 06:51:33
If the season ended today then absolutely not!
Duncan McDine
11 Posted 18/02/2016 at 07:54:17
If the takeover doesn't happen (nothing is ever certain at Everton), then I can see him staying no matter how the rest of the season pans out. But like most fans, I feel like he has to win the cup (following the past two crappy seasons) to 'earn' his right to manage our club.
Colin Glassar
12 Posted 18/02/2016 at 08:08:27
As long as BK's in charge he's got a job for life. The other fella only left after he got a better offer, if not we'd still be stuck with him.
Jim Bennings
13 Posted 18/02/2016 at 08:17:06
I'm with the sceptics now I'm afraid.

I have a feeling he will be here at the start of next season for sure, whether he see's Christmas is another matter.

I think if he is here next season we'll all be having the same discussion around mid-winter about the lack of win's due to appealing defending, the inability to hold onto leads, refusal to work on weaknesses etc etc.

You just the feeling that's the Everton way now though don't you, we just put up with mediocrity in the hope that all of a sudden someone will turn water into wine and miraculously we will challenge the top.

The trouble is expectations have changed with the more money the club has spent recently compared to the Moyes era, we can't describe finishing 7th as punching above our weight anymore can we?.

I think Martinez will be here at the start of next season, I don't however see him being here at the start of next year.

Trevor Peers
14 Posted 18/02/2016 at 08:43:11
Hard to imagine another season of endless home defeats, but Colin is probably right he will survive if there's no takeover.

The big fear is that we will start losing away from GP as well. What happens then?

It's all so unnecessary, there are plenty of manager's out there, who can get the team to defend and attack at the same time. Roberto obviously cannot.

Harold Matthews
15 Posted 18/02/2016 at 11:24:10
He thinks he's great but he isn't. Has kept all his favourites on the gravy train and will not be kind to squad members, ex-Blues or pundits who dare challenge his philosophy. The most inept defensive coach in the two top English leagues. Didn't earn his lofty multi-million pound position. Has talked his way up the ladder and will talk his way into staying there.
Martin Mason
16 Posted 18/02/2016 at 11:53:36
Just a thought on the comment that TV money has been our only investment. Strictly speaking that money is income to Everton FC rather than investment, but is a shared investment from Sky in the Premier League as they get no return from Everton specifically.

The Everton directors have invested in Everton by buying ownership and this is very much an investment as they will get a lot more for the club than they paid. They take no money from the club so the only credible investment in the club would have been to have been in the consortium that bought the club originally. As we've seen the worst investment was by small shareholders who get no return and have no say.

You could say that the Board has done brilliantly in business terms by having held the club together through hard times until it has become a sellable asset at multiples of what they paid because of the TV revenue. I can't for the life of me understand what anybody buying Everton FC gets for the currently inflated price given our poor income apart from TV money and our high liabilities... or is our cash flow now that good?

Phil Walling
17 Posted 18/02/2016 at 12:17:50
Colin, I think you are right on this one and I'm beginning to think the 'takeover' has gone tits up – just as it did at Swansea.

I believe it depends on raising the money via a consortium and that arrangement has a history of failure as we know.

Roberto can breathe again, methinks!

Dave Ganley
18 Posted 18/02/2016 at 12:22:29
Nope, absolutely not... sooner he is gone and someone installed who actually knows what he is doing the better. I can't watch much more of this rubbish.
Matt Traynor
19 Posted 18/02/2016 at 12:35:31
Sorry Martin #15, you are right – I should've been more specific and referenced investment into the first team coming from revenue (or by sale of players). But those who are comparing the money available now to what Moyes had are missing the point – rising tides etc.

I really wanted RM to succeed... but his stubbornness (a lot like his predecessor in that regard!) has left me agnostic as to whether he stays or not.

Denis Richardson
20 Posted 18/02/2016 at 12:43:47
Matt 7 - I can think of around 4 million reasons why big time names/managers would be very tempted by the Everton hot seat.
After all, Southampton were/are hardly a global name and managed to get Koeman and Pochettino before. Look at Leicester as well.

I'm always amazed when people say 'why would he come to us' - especially when there's a 4m salary attached and a Premier League club with an average 35k gate. Granted a Guadiola or Simeone wouldn't but there are a whole load of other managers who would - each of whom would be much better than Martinez and have already proved they're capable (rather than having to 'learn').

We gave Moyes his big chance and we did the same again with Martinez. How about we finally stop giving (supposedly) up and coming managers a chance and get one who has already been there/done that - or at least played at the highest level so would have been managed by a top manager.
Brian Harrison
21 Posted 18/02/2016 at 12:48:16
About 6 months ago, I was talking with an ex-Everton player, we were both watching our grandsons play football. Nobody else seem to recognize him, maybe because it wasn't in Liverpool. So we chatted for about an hour and talked all things football about the great Everton Teams and players.

Then I got round to talk about today's players and more specifically RM; he thought we had some very good players. But he said that when he listened to RM before and after matches, he didn't understand a word he was talking about. He said, so if he didn't understand what he was talking about, how did the players understand what he wanted from them?

Paul Saleh
23 Posted 18/02/2016 at 13:09:38
The man is full of bulshit – the latest heading in the paper today:

"Everton don't need to win the FA Cup to save season... we are close to our aim in the Premier League, insists Roberto Martinez"

I wonder what our aim is – to finish in the bottom half of the table???

His bullshit drives me round the twist!

Just do one and go!!!

Fran Mitchell
24 Posted 18/02/2016 at 13:23:47
Fans that keep defending Roberto remind of my cousin who keeps saying her arsehole husband 'is gonna change'.

Consistent dissapointment always forgotton with the occasional gesture, always hoping that the occasional gesture will become the norm when it will only ever become rarer and rarer.

In the summer we'll lose Lukaku, then next year the excuse will be 'Lukaku left, he needs time to find another goalscorer to fit his system' and the cycle will continue.

There are a couple on here adamant that Martinez is something special. They call those who criticise Martinez as 'fickle': "Where were you when we won 3-0". But the reality is they are the fickle ones, because the 3-0 wins have been far fewer than the disappointing results.

He's a bad football manager.

Victor Jones
25 Posted 18/02/2016 at 13:32:08
Great comments Denis Richardson. Spot on. Time for Everton to start thinking big. Time for supporters to start thinking big. Should Everton ever get over the hurdle of actually sacking a manager (I've never agreed with supporters who cling to that nonsense that we are not a sacking club), then we should go for a manager who knows his stuff. I am sure their are many who would love the chance to manage Everton.

With the so-called big money next season, and this possible takeover, it is long overdue that Everton got with the program. It is long overdue that Everton give themselves a proper chance of pushing on and actually winning something. That all starts with a proper manager, and not the last four managers who have been at the helm.

Do Everton have any bloody ambition? I sometimes wonder, I really do.

Phil Walling
26 Posted 18/02/2016 at 14:35:58
Fickle? I don't think that's totally inappropriate for a large body of Evertonians. Two years ago, and even as recently as this season, I was getting dog's abuse for suggesting that Martinez was not suitably qualified for the job and it will be the same all over again if we make progress in the Cup and ever beat the 'other lot'.

Our 'present manager' may not at present be anybody's hero but, believe me, he won't have to do much to change that perception.

Yes, 'fickle' just about sums it up!

Shane Corcoran
27 Posted 18/02/2016 at 14:43:08
Bollock naked, eh?
Dave Abrahams
28 Posted 18/02/2016 at 15:09:08
Phil (#25), I think a big majority have turned against the manager permanently and want him out as soon as possible. You can only kid people for so long, the majority, anyway, and Martinez has gone past the point of no return.
Chris Gould
29 Posted 18/02/2016 at 15:12:24
It was more than 2 years ago, Phil. You made it very clear that he wasn't good enough for Everton from the very start. Many on here shouted you down, probably the same people who now say he's useless.

Fans are fickle. We could quite conceivably win 4 in a row and suddenly people will wonder if he's onto something after all. I've changed my opinion of him at least 4 times in his time here.

Eugene Ruane
30 Posted 18/02/2016 at 15:29:38
Phil - 'Two years ago and even as recently as this season, I was getting dog's abuse for suggesting that Martinez was not suitably qualified for the job'

Two years ago, RM was an FA Cup-winning manager who had just taken us to our highest ever PL points tally, so any stick you got then, imo you'd have deserved.

Yes he'd taken Wigan down, but anyone two years back screaming 'That FA Cup-winning manager who has just given us our highest ever Premier League points tally MUST go!!" would have looked insane.

Are things different now?

Have many revised their opinion?

It seems so, but people aren't 'fickle' because they're prepared to give a manager 2/3 seasons before forming an opinion.

Because they're prepared to make a 'he needs to go' decision based on one successful season and two shite seasons, rather than on one successful season.

So, if you're looking for a credit for an 'I told you so' made two years ago, good luck.

Ray Robinson
31 Posted 18/02/2016 at 15:33:18
The problem that Martinez now has is that, even if he does turn things around, people are so tired of hearing the meaningless soundbites and hyperbole that they will forever see him as deluded and will never be able to take him seriously. He has dug himself into a hole by not tempering what he says and only ever talking in superlatives. Quite simply, there's nowhere for him to go without sounding a cliché of himself. I'm sure that he's a thoroughly nice guy but I can't bear to listen to him any more!
Guy Hastings
32 Posted 18/02/2016 at 15:37:38
Paul 22 - absolutely agree. What a statement to make 48 hours before the Bournemouth game. That'll stiffen the sinews and summon up that blood. Bring back the Mid-Table Obscurity Cup. Mind you, we'd lose that against Stoke or WBA.
Steve Hogan
33 Posted 18/02/2016 at 15:42:10
Four yes FOUR home wins in 10 months means he has to go.

If we still think were a BIG club, we need to act like one, he needs to be released NOW.

Andrew Ellams
34 Posted 18/02/2016 at 15:45:46
If he gets another season are we allowed some sort of footballing sabbatical?

I've been supporting Everton since '77 and bearing in mind resources at his disposal he's the worst coach I've seen in that time.

Eugene Ruane
35 Posted 18/02/2016 at 16:12:09
Ray (30) - You're probably right, the talking-talking-talking thing hasn't helped him and for us, is kind of salt-in-the-wound.

His relentless chatty-Cathy blarney has put him in the position of now getting double-bubble from Evertonians - "Shit result and...shut the fuck up!!"

To be honest, recently, all that guff has started to have a Scientology (or est) feel to it.

A kind of mad, staring, happy-whatever-the-situation, positive-whatever-the-situation Tom Cruise..um..'vibe'.

(I won't be able to watch if we win the cup and he appears on Opra).

On the plus side, his demeanour might have 'cured' a few on TW of constantly promoting positivity, by showing how fucking irritating someone who is constantly positive actually looks.

Charles McCann
36 Posted 18/02/2016 at 16:13:42
Going against the tide here a bit, I feel we should see how the season pans out before making any rash decision. Yes I think he has made quite a few mistakes this season especially regarding team selection and his substitutions, but he also brings a lot of positive attributes to the team. I want to see Everton play football with the ball being passed around mostly on the deck with less of the hoof ball tactics of the past Moyes era, which Martinez encourages his players to do. His signings on the whole have been very good like McCarthy, Besic and Lukaku. He also is doing a good job in bringing through the younger players like Barkley and Stones. We need to finish this season really strongly to keep hold of our best players and I think we will. Its time for Martinez to get his best players on the pitch i.e Robles in goal McCarthy and Besic in the centre of midfield, Baines in the Left back position, Lennon on the right, Mirallas or Pienaar on the left with Barkley and Lukaku in attack. Although Roberto has done my head in this season I still think we can achieve success under his management.
Steavey Buckley
37 Posted 18/02/2016 at 16:14:32
Martinez's situation is not helped by the debacle last Saturday, when Everton were 1:0 down to a resolute WBA defence, organised by a defence minded Tony Pullis, decides to bring on Kone and Osman and take off Lennon with less than 1/2 hour to go before the full-time whistle is blown.
Ray Robinson
38 Posted 18/02/2016 at 16:37:30
Eugene #34 I worked for a major bank until 2009 where we were being re-assured constantly that we were adequately capitalised - until it very nearly went under. Anyone who expressed concerns was considered to be negative and a doom-monger. The one lesson that that taught me was to suspect any happy-clappy person who could see no problems / issues even when they were staring them in the face.

Martinez's positivity was a breath of fresh air after Moyes but he quickly started to grate when it became clear that he was so focussed on the bigger picture that he couldn't see issues right under his nose. He has done many good things at Everton - generally good recruitment, encouraging skilful players, giving youth a chance etc but he has consistently ignored / failed to see day to day issues that undermine the team. I'm afraid on that basis, he has failed. The constant claptrap that he doles out only aggravates the situation.

John Brennan
39 Posted 18/02/2016 at 16:44:29
Sorry Roberto, lovely guy and all the rest of it, but simply not good enough.
Replace him with either Nigel Pearson or Steve Bruce.
Two Brits who know their way around the block, and Bruce has a few medals to prove he's a winner.
Michael Kenrick
40 Posted 18/02/2016 at 16:46:15
Dave (#27), despite the highly vocal group that feel the need to tell us on a daily basis he needs to leave the club immediately, how do account for the reports suggesting significant numbers of match-going fans – especially our fantastic away contingent – still seem to believe in him, or at least are prepared to give him more time?

Seems that, as ever, there is a split in fanbase opinion, and with such a simple choice: stay or go, it becomes highly polarizing.

Ray Robinson
41 Posted 18/02/2016 at 16:48:59
John #38 - Steve Bruce? Granted an altogether different personality but another guy who managed a team that was relegated!
John Brennan
42 Posted 18/02/2016 at 16:57:53
Well Ray, I'm too busy doing nothing in retirement to check out foreign managers!
Surely everyone would like a juicy brucy bonus-- higher, higher!!
Chris Gould
43 Posted 18/02/2016 at 17:00:17
Michael #39, I agree that the fans are more split than these discussions suggest. Why do you think so many on here are so vehemently against him staying? If the fans are split, you'd think we'd get a more balanced debate here.
Tony Hill
44 Posted 18/02/2016 at 17:10:59
I don't agree that there is an even split or anything like it. The atmosphere at Goodison speaks for itself and nor do I think from my own conversations that there is any particular difference among our away fans; the fact that they travel and are loud does not mean they think the manager is doing a good job.

There are certainly some supporters who want to give him more time but I am pretty sure - obviously I can't prove it - that they are now in a significant minority.

Rob Halligan
46 Posted 18/02/2016 at 18:21:42
Bryan Oviedo believes Roberto Martinez's experience of winning the FA Cup has helped Everton in this season's knockout competitions. Jeez, hope his experience of taking a team down doesn't help as well!
Jim Bennings
47 Posted 18/02/2016 at 19:07:13
Apart from winning at Middlesbrough we haven't exactly pulled up any tree's in the Cup competitions this season, we have beaten two no marks so far in the FA Cup and scraped past a second string Norwich team in the League Cup on pens, our biggest scalp along with Boro.
Lawrence Sharp
48 Posted 19/02/2016 at 06:35:48
If there's a takeover, why should we be stuck with him ? If there's no takeover, why should we be stuck with him ?

Even if we don't have big investment, we could still do far better if we had Sean Dyche or Mark Hughes.

Those are the guys we should have been talking to weeks ago already...

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