No new stadium at Walton Hall Park

16/05/2016  245 Comments  [Jump to last]

Updated

A proposal for a new ground for Everton at Walton Hall Park has been scrapped with the club and Liverpool City Council confirming that they are weighing up alternative sites within the city's boundaries, with one possibly on the banks of the Mersey.

The club had been exploring the opportunity of moving from Goodison Park to the greenfield site less than a mile from their current home, proposing a mix of leisure, retail and housing, but the plans never really got past the initial stages, with funding and local opposition key barriers.

A joint statement from Everton and the council cited those impediments and announced that two brownfield sites are being considered as alternative locations for a new Everton stadium:

“The proposed scheme at Walton Hall Park was always an ambitious one. It was a regeneration scheme that relied heavily on retail investment into the site.

“Most of the current investment into retail is focused on city centres and larger district centres and not on out-of-town developments like this would have been.”

Liverpool Mayor Joe Anderson has now pledged that Walton Hall Park will “remain a park and will be designated as such”.

Robert Elstone, chief executive of Everton Football Club said: “Our work with the council, particularly over the last few months, has been positive and progressive and whilst our work evaluating the alternatives is at an early stage, we are hopeful that the new sites provide us with a much more straightforward, deliverable opportunity to build a new stadium.”

Speaking to BBC Merseyside, Anderson expressed his belief that Everton will be kicking off in a new ground by the start of the 2019-20 season.

“I'm confident the new stadium will be up and running in three years time," the mayor said.

“I think there is a real acceptance by them and I'm pretty confident that within three years there will be a new stadium for Everton football club in Liverpool.”

While no details of the potential sites now under consideration, the Liverpool Echo now report that one could be in the north docks area at Trafalgar Dock and the other at the Stonebridge Cross site off the East Lancs Road in Croxteth.

The collapse of the Kings Dock project over a decade ago has been a source of pain for Evertonians who dreamt of an iconic waterfront stadium that would have put the club on the map in more than one sense.

Peel Holdings, the developers of the Liverpool Waters regeneration of the city's waterfront have historically been reluctant to involve a football stadium in their plans but may now be warming to the idea if these reports have any substance.

Old plans for a potential Everton stadium at Trafalgar Dock combined with mixed-use retail and residential development

 

Reader Comments (245)

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Oscar Huglin
1 Posted 16/05/2016 at 10:25:52
So Walton Hall Park has been abandoned...

Maybe Moshiri took one look at the plans and realised what a farce it all was.

Mike Green
2 Posted 16/05/2016 at 10:56:52
Certainly feels like that, doesn't it, Oscar. It'll be very interesting to see where the two new site options are....
Colin Glassar
3 Posted 16/05/2016 at 11:23:27
Oscar, if Moshiri has an ounce of common sense he will be clearing out BK's office today!! Out with the old, in with the new. The WHP "project" is just another example of his bumbling incompetence and lies. Elstone needs to be kicked out as well.

We need a complete break with the past if we are to ever progress.

Dave Abrahams
4 Posted 16/05/2016 at 12:59:07
I heard a few months ago it was somewhere along the East Lancs Road close to Croxteth, heard it again recently.

We might have a chance under Mr Moshiri, under the present chairman doubt it very much, I hope to hear him sing very soon, "I"m your yesterday man".

Chris Corn
5 Posted 16/05/2016 at 13:22:06
Joe Anderson saying Everton will have a stadium up and running within the city boundaries within three years. They must all be loved up again.
Phil Walling
6 Posted 16/05/2016 at 13:26:14
What is the case against Stanley Park where the other lot were granted planning permission and never used it?
Neil Quinn
7 Posted 16/05/2016 at 13:31:53
Croxteth / Gilmoss is a big no no for me. It would destroy the normal match day routine for thousands of Evertonians in the same way that Kirkby would have done. By that I mean the pre & post match pub.

My choices would be:

1. Redevelop Goodison
2. Stanley Park
3. City Centre / Waterfront.

Colin Glassar
8 Posted 16/05/2016 at 13:43:12
Neil, points 1-2 are viable but what about the Brownlow Hill area? It's a bit run down, loads of empty spaces and close to the city centre.
Nick Page
9 Posted 16/05/2016 at 13:46:56
Anyone know if Kings Docks or something similar on waterfront is viable? If not that best to redevelop GP.

After all wasn't this the reason behind the Moshiri sale?

Dave Roberts
10 Posted 16/05/2016 at 13:48:25
Come on! I'm nearly 70. Am I ever going to see this saga come to some kind of conclusion?
Jay Wood
11 Posted 16/05/2016 at 13:56:25
A rather inevitable conclusion to this, I would suggest.

Elstone's mealy-mouthed criticism of Joe Anderson and LCC at the AGM didn't sit right with many at the time. Still puzzled how and why he is still CEO and more, now has an official seat on the board.

Hopefully better news on all fronts will be forthcoming as the Moshiri revolution picks up pace.

Colin Glassar
12 Posted 16/05/2016 at 13:57:33
Liverpool has loads of run down areas which could be regenerated with a new stadium, but there's nothing left on the docks is there?
Roger Helm
13 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:01:40
I don't understand why there is room for new stadia in London, the world's most popular city, but none in Liverpool, which is pretty much a big brown-field site as far as I can see.
Terence Tyler
14 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:02:15
Mayor now saying "Everton will have a new stadium within 3 years."

Sounds like Moshiri has sacked Liverpool council off, and is going full speed ahead for our own purpose built football stadium. Or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

Kristian Boyce
15 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:08:25
“remain a park and will be designated as such” - but we're more than happy to approve Stanley Park getting torn up.
Liam Reilly
16 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:10:01
Build it on Stanley Park. LP got the permission; so why cant Everton?
Chris Regan
17 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:12:35
Colin, I beg to differ regarding the docks, as you go north towards bootle there is derelict land on the waterfront and derelict buildings (commercial buildings). The question would be money, a waterfront development would be great but I doubt it.
Eugene Ruane
18 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:14:46
Terence (11) - 'Sounds like Moshiri has sacked Liverpool council off, and is going full speed ahead for our own purpose built football stadium. Or is that just wishful thinking on my part.'

Maybe, or maybe he has just taken a different tack than Elstone.

Maybe he's decided not to treat fat Joe and the LCC as mugs and dupes and engage with them without coming across like Private Walker.

That would make sense - last time (November?) Flash Harry tried to give it 'I'm the big CEO', Anderson understandably responded with 'Fuck off!'

(well ok it was more along the lines 'great, show us your plans' but it amounted to the same thing).

Jay Wood
19 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:16:49
Mayor Anderson said on BBC Radio Merseyside: "I'm confident the new stadium will be up and running in three years time.

"I think there is a real acceptance by them and I'm pretty confident that within three years there will be a new stadium for Everton football club in Liverpool."

WOW!!!

That's a big categoric statement. What does Joe (a Blue himself, of course) know to be so forthright in his declaration?

Intrigued ...

Les Martin
20 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:19:51
I find this exciting because the fact is we will be having a new stadium in the next 3 years which says to me something will be sorted by the end of the year.

I then hope the fans will be consulted at various stages of its development.

Chris Regan
21 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:21:22
To be honest, when Moshiri bought the club I always thought it was to get us in a new stadium within a few years then sell to another party.


Regarding the Waterfront there is a huge swathe of derelict land where Regent road meets Waterloo road. It's ideal as its in a business district so there's less chance of the local RS residents forming a protest group.

Anthony Hawkins
22 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:21:39
It's great that Moshiri has come in and inmediately started putting his stamp on things. Yes he's pulling the plug on things which matter but he's being decisive and taking ownership of the outcomes.

Moshiri Is already showing he isn't afraid to make the right calls and will do the right thing. Long may it continue!

Barry Lightfoot
23 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:22:31
Clarence Dock
Colin Glassar
24 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:24:40
Chris, of course there's land out there but how far away are we prepared to go? I've suggested the Brownlow hill area but others have mentioned Speke, Sandhills, London road etc.... I feel that LCC are screwing us as they've bowed down to every rs demand including Stanley park.
Darren Bailey
25 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:25:05
I read somewhere else someone put forward the idea of Trafalgar Dock but not sure if that's viable. Anybody else know if that a possibility?
James Flynn
26 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:25:09
The Mayor stating "Up and running in 3 years time" would mean they're already close to breaking ground, no?

There's plenty in here living in and around Liverpool. Could the city and Moshiri get all the legal, municipal and financial ducks in a row so soon after he bought into the Club?

Roy Johnstone
27 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:25:48
I agree, Croxteth is Kirkby lite. Too far out. Redevelopment centred on making the Bullens Road and the Park End stands bigger, like Newcastle have done, is probably the best option now.

We own the school don't we?

Joe McMahon
28 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:26:47
How long can the worst ground in the premier league carry on before it crumbles i'm sure Bullens will anytime soon. Queen Victoria was still alive when Goodison was built.

Worry ye not, we can watch Anfield continue to grow instead. I got the impression WHP was nothing but a decaying mess and needed a new life? Christ I wanna see us in a new ground while i'm still in my 40's, as it is the last time we won something I was 25. We are pinning a lot of hope on Mr Moshiri, I hope he will buy that tosser Kenwright out, we are 20 years behind thanks to him. Hopefully there will be some money left to build him a boys pen in the middle on the North Sea.

Damian Wilde
29 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:32:22
Just had this message from one of my best friends:

"Just had a meeting with the boss of peel holdings. Says he's in talks with your new owners about a new £300m stadium on princes dock near us... Be good that!"

Iain Latchford
30 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:33:03
A new stadium within 3 years???

What?? Where??? How????

Chris Regan
31 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:34:00
Colin, Regarding the Waterfront there is a swathe of derelict land where Regent road meets Waterloo road. It's ideal as its in a business district so there's less chance of the local residents forming a protest group.

I go past there regularly and its footprint is greater than Goodison. The Summer pops is held there, so its not too far from the City Centre, although I believe Liverpool One's developers stipulated a limitation on retail developments within a given radius of Liverpool One so that may limit the options.

Derek Turner
32 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:34:27
3 years without a sod being turned yet, is it a flat pack from Ikea? Well, it makes a change from Kenwright promissing us a new stadium!
Chris Bentham
33 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:34:28
Trafalgar dock would be perfect... Sandhills Station serves both lines and is close enough.

The problem is I think Peel Holdings have the land locked for 'Liverpool Waters'. It would be great to see redevelopment of the dock road with the overhead railway rebuilt.

Jay Wood
34 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:35:49
Princes Dock Damian?

Between the 2 tunnels, near Albert Dock?

Please let it be so!

Ever more intrigued!

Iain Latchford
35 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:36:39
Damian, that's the stuff dreams are made of. Please don't say your telling porkies!!
Steve Jones
36 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:37:29
Brownfield sites and new stadiums does sound like were still aimed away from redevelopment and Stanley Park doesnt it?.

Wonder if 3yrs is a reaction to things being simpler for us now?.

A few years back we had to be infrastructure-led as a club and we needed the ground to make every penny of revenue it could. Four or five million quid of conferencing revenue would've been a godsend.

Now though with the new TV deals and the, very commercially-convenient, Leicester fairy-tale for the FA/Sky to sell its hard to see that TV money drying up any time soon. Plus we have the redoubtable Mr Moshiri and anyone he may be able to involve. That few million quid we make 'on the side' are we going to care much about it?.

So, if we don't care, and we only need to build a shiny new stadium now, instead of a business empire, does that make any specific sites come back into focus that werent before?.

Damian Wilde
37 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:37:50
I don't know the details Jay, just read the message.

Damian

Colin Glassar
38 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:41:43
Interesting Chris. I'd love a waterfront stadium as long as its feasible from an engineering point of view. We don't want a stadium that will sink like Venice, do we?
Chris Regan
39 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:47:12
Colin, it's funny the idea of the stadium sinking did come into my head as I was typing. Then again as Evertonians we should be used to a sinking feeling. Recently it's been coming around for us with about ten minutes left to play or just as Roberto began a press conference.
Jay Wood
40 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:49:04
Too much excitment!

New owner stamping his mark ...

New manager in soon ...

New blood coming through the academy ...

Now new stadium (allegedly) to add to the mix ...

I feel a swoon coming on!

Best to adopt a Phil Walling stance:

BK to expose Moshiri was a playful hoax ...

David Moyes to return...

Academy players all loaned out to Brentford and never hear of again ...

Goodison Park remains untouched and our spiritual home, gaining world heritage listing from UNESCO. Key to doing so was retaining the 'unique obstructed views' which recall football stadium and spectating from a bygone age ...

All taken with a pinch of salt, rather than waking from a swoon with smelling salts.

Darren Bailey
41 Posted 16/05/2016 at 14:56:01
Damian #29 - I think you are now officially everybody's best friend. Don't leave us hanging!
Alex Bonnar
42 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:00:39
Mr Moshiri, although not on the Board, has already made two really big decisions which will definitely help long term: Sacking Roberto and scrapping the WHP project. Now we need to see positive replacements of both. Interesting times...

James Marshall
43 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:09:38
Roger@13

Here in London the new stadiums (Arsenal and the Olympic stadium) were both built on brown-field land, and there plenty of sites down here as London is so big. Though most of them are not anywhere near central.

The Olympic stadium is way out east and not really that easy to get to - people who live in London see it as being 'out of town' if you like.

The Arsenal stadium is not far from where I live, and is also a nightmare to get in/out of with regards to public transport - as for driving, forget it. It's also not anywhere central London either.

Londoners are very insular people, and we even scoff if we have to wait 5 minutes for a tube train. London central has no sites for new development at all, which is why both the above stadiums are a little further out.

Christopher Dover
44 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:13:20
Well if it sinks we could come top of the league in water polo :)
Chris Regan
45 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:18:38
Damian, isn't Peel Holdings developing a project called Liverpool Waters?
Iain Latchford
46 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:18:46
Damian, when your mate says "your" new owners I'm assuming he is not an Everton supporter. He's not a kopite is he???
Chris Regan
47 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:24:38
Just found this link, I've always thought since I first saw the project that EFC should be involved.

http://www.liverpoolwaters.co.uk/

But with the myopic Kenwright and Elstone there was no chance.

Simon Murphy
48 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:24:45
Damian Wilde, there might be something in that, as the talk yesterday at the game was actually Trafalgar Dock, down by Costco
Mike Green
49 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:25:42
I wonder if they've shown Mourinho's boys the plans.....
Ian Burns
50 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:26:37
I pray this isn't King's (Princes) Dock revisited. After Saturday's Royle connection, the omens are looking good - at last. A summer of high anticipation ahead me thinks!
Iain Latchford
51 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:26:40
Looking at a birds eye view of the area, I'm not sure where a football stadium would go....

http://www.liverpoolwaters.co.uk/development/overview

Ray Said
52 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:27:06
Damiens (29) mate could be right. Here is the link to a post I made a two years ago (post 747). The obstacle to Peel working with the club has always been Bill.

http://ToffeeWeb.com/season/13-14/rumour-mill/27236.html

Martin Swindley
53 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:28:01
Maybe we should just ask Liverpool FC can we build a new stadium and if so where?
Chris Regan
54 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:32:30
Iain, I think those images are mainly concept art work and that the project is developing. I'd be surprised if Peel were not at least interested in have EFC in the project. Having 40+k people visiting there development, at least 20 times a year and not to mention the away fans.

Ray, I remember your post, it stuck in my head as you were spot on regarding Kenwright.

Iain Latchford
55 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:34:22
I see Chris, that's a relief!!
Jay Wood
57 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:37:26
Ray Said...

Still sufficient acreage in any of the Dock Front redevelopments to build a 21st century fit for purpose football stadium, Ray?

Specifically, at Princes Dock as Damian mentions?

Top, top location, if so...

Clive Rogers
58 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:43:06
This all goes to show what a buffoon Kenwright is. That's three failed ground moves down to him, two of which were unviable. He even made a hash of building a shop at the park end.
Ray Said
59 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:44:43
Chris
i was told Peel had everything planned and agreed by the authorities - transport infrastructure including a designated rail link at Bankhall. They were offering Bill the money from naming rights up front so the club could then use that funding as their contribution to the stadium cost.
I was told he wanted them to plan everything, pay for everything and then hand it over to him. My friend said it was like negotiating with a 10 year old child who just wanted to spin tales and talk about his famous mates. Peel are very serious players and respected around the world. BK's performance made Tesco Terry ashamed to be associated with him.
Ray Said
60 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:46:06
Jay
There is still space around bankhall which was the site they were interested in EFC taking.
Nick Page
61 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:49:54
I remember that Ray. Couldn't even be arsed turning up for meetings with peel, the big fat headed prick. The sooner that greedy lying bastard is out of the fecking door the better.

Hopefully Moshiri has started to turn things around which by the look on Kenwrights face yesterday isn't to everyone's liking. Maybe Bill and all his greasy pals like Green won't be coining as much from the club anymore and can't hold us to ransome over the stadium issue (the eternal pot with no piss in).

If Moshiri has identified a world class site on the waterfront, and why wouldn't he, then I would expect this to be the prelude to a larger takeover from perhaps his business partner Usmanov. Hopefully this spells the end of the wilderness years under the lying bastard Kenwright who'll still walk away with a massive sum. Biggest Evertonian my fecking arse.

Mike Green
62 Posted 16/05/2016 at 15:49:57
We're surely getting ahead of ourselves but imagine if this is true? Moshiri will have achieved more in a few months than Bill has in nearly 20 years....
Colin Glassar
64 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:08:38
Ray, BK's been a deadweight around our neck for years now. His only overriding interest has been to maintain his control of the club, nothing else.
Chris Kelly
65 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:08:41
For me, its time to move on from Stanley Park area and move to the waterfront in the city centre. My fear would be that we end up with the 2nd best stadium in the area. By moving to the city centre or along the waterfront we can offer something unique and different from Anfield. This could potentially offer a better site with great transport links. If we can be part of a major Peel investment, then one can assume it will happen and be delivered in a professional manner.
I would love to have a stadium that is preferred for future world cups and euros because of the great location and atmosphere.
Surely after so many years of playing second fiddle, its time to think big.
I mean Chelsea, Man City and now Leicester seem to have overtaken the traditional big 5 so come on Everton, make us proud. NSNO.
Paul Kossoff
66 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:11:27
So much for Moshiri and his investment in players and new stadium then. What's the excuse this time? The ground is too soft, WHP has been earmarked for fracking?? The Red Shite want it for a baseball theme park???

I can't wait to hear the bullshit to come from the board to explain this. But we are Everton and should expect these things to happen.

Martin Nicholls
67 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:11:50
Joe McMahon#28. Worst ground in PL? I agree it's not "state of the art" but if you think it's the worst you obviously don't go to many away games!
Chris Regan
68 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:13:43
Ray 59, none of what you say surprises me and I find none of it doubtful. Bill Kenwright comes across as a woolly thinker and narcissist. He's been a foot on the throat of this club for too long, managing expectations downwards and generally messing things up.
Alan McGuffog
69 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:14:47
This is Everton.

Imagine two potential scenarios:

One, an iconic, 50,000-seater purpose-built stadium close to the waterfront so that, for example, all the cruise ship tourists would be in awe, as they sailed into port.

Two, a flat-pack cheapo job up the East Lancs, handy for Kirkby, Crocky and Norris Green. Swarming with scroats in North Face jackets riding those little bikes and offering to mind your car.

I repeat... this is Everton. Which option is more likely?

Roy Noon
70 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:17:58
It's all got a bit of a ground hog day feel about it:

First we had the Kirkby golf course stadium – failed...
Kings Dock – failed...
Kirkby Tesco – failed...
Now WHP – failed.

If EFC do decide to relocate, I really can't believe it will be sorted within 3 years? I do wonder whether Moshiri, having looked at the previous failures and presumably, because it was part of his remit, has decided that redevelopment of GP on a piecemeal basis is the best option?

I would love that to be the case, and, has been clearly shown is viable if those in charge have the wherewithal. Take a look at Man Utd, Newcastle and our dear neighbours to name but three...

I am sure, though I appreciate as with any exercise of this scale, there would be difficulties. However, the planning permissions and any objections would surely be minimal obstacles and more importantly it would be supported by 100% of the fan base.

Iain Johnston
71 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:18:47
I don't think Princes Dock is viable although Trafalgar dock most certainly is especially if both Graving Docks are filled in.

There's scope for riverfront apartments, offices & parking. Think of all of the retail drivers who'd want in... Whitbread with a Costa & Prem' Inn, BK, M&S.

Ok, I need to lie down now.

Tony J Williams
72 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:19:45
"Everton will have a new stadium within 3 years"

Let's hope it's not the same as the spades will be in the ground come April crap the Redshite were spun!!

Martin Nicholls
73 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:20:59
Controversial I know but there are plenty of brownfield sites for a waterside stadium on Wirral! Geographically closer to Liverpool City centre than Kirkby, WHP, Gillmoss etc and with better cross-river views than any water-side site in Liverpool. Many thousands of Blues come from Wirral as did our greatest ever player!
Before shooting me down, think about it guys!
Karl Meighan
74 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:21:40

Neil@7 were Evertonians not fans of pubs close to the ground, I just don't get the we would have to travel a couple of miles and find new pubs to drink in after the game argument.
As long as any new ground has good facilities brings in revenue to help sustain and build the Club then what does it matter? Ime sure a bus ride or finding a new watering hole wouldn't stop people going the match.
Morgan Edwards
75 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:23:29
Moshiri's mate at Arsenal Usmanov is coming to Everton, mark my words!
Simon Murphy
76 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:25:51
Trafalgar Dock, I hear, down by Costco.
Ste Traverse
77 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:31:46
So that's THREE stadium failures for the Kenwright regime. That many is unprecedented anywhere in English football, and as usual, Elstone is trying to weasel out of it with predictable soundbites.

Complete non-starter and a waste of time.

Ffs, redevelop Goodison Park instead of chasing pie-in-the-sky stadium schemes. They should have done it years ago.

Bob Cumiskey
80 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:33:52
Martin 73 appreciate your comments but no thanks to the Wirral. EFC is a Liverpool based football club and always has been. Our roots and heritage is here and hopefully here we shall stay. There are lots of EFC fans based in Cheshire but I am sure that we would never relocate there either.

My gut feeling is that it will be located in Liverpool 's north docks sector. Plenty of Brownfield sites there to be utilised which would give the area a very much needed commercial boost. There is also good road and rail links available from all directions of the city.
James Hughes
82 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:36:53
I heard that it was that Everton will still be talking about a new stadium in three years, not have a new stadium !!
Colin Hughes
84 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:41:56
Buy a few streets behind the Gwladys Street stand,purchase the school on Bullens road accompanied with all the space behind the Park end and we will have a huge footprint to build a state of the art 55,000 capacity stadium with some original features such as the elevator tower on the main stand so as not to lose too much tradition. Easy really.
Ged Simpson
86 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:44:32
Don't believe the boss of Peel Holdings just let that slip. Also, what does your mate do Damien ? I think their plans too advanced for us.

Browlow Hill....no. New bio-campus. Hospital and Uni.

Croxteth....not too far out if you live there ! Would prob increase crowd with M57 link.

Speke ...bout time they got something. People from Kirkdale could fly to the match.

Who knows and don't get all excited by a non-rumour. Otherwise you'll get bitter again and see RS conspiracy.


Damian Wilde
87 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:52:12
The Wirral... no!!
.

Okay guys, sorry I have been wrapped up in mental health work stuff. What I posted was copied and pasted (verbatim) from one of my best/closet friend's who I do trust.

In answer to someone's question, yes he is a red, but not the sort to lie for the sake of it.

I haven't spoken to him on the phone or had any further messages, so can't elaborate yet. All I have is that message, which he sent as he knew I'd be interested.

Will it happen? Who knows. This is Everton after all.

Sorry it's all a bit ambiguous, but that's all I know at the moment. Mind you after being under the management of sideways bob we should be used to ambiguity, right?!

Mike Green
90 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:54:08
The thing is with these new, more suitable sites is where have they been all this time....? Or have they lain invisible for twenty years and then all of a sudden 'POP!' - there it is, a big, vacant footprint to build a mahousive great stadium on top...

Who would've thought it....

Brian Williams
93 Posted 16/05/2016 at 16:57:08
Yeh so you should change that post Colin Hughes....disgraceful!
Brian Williams
94 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:01:23
Martin 73.
I'm from, and live on, the Wirral but the thought of moving the club out of the city just doesnt seem right even though it would make my journey much easier.
Everton belong within, the city boundaries of Liverpool.
Ian Jones
95 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:02:14
Colin. Why stop at 55,000 :)
Lyndon Lloyd
96 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:03:29
I recall a conversation with a red cabbie 18 months ago where he said that not all of Peel's proposed developments were accounted for and he'd been told that they were asking Everton if they wanted in. Could easily have been the usual Merseyside rumour mill in action but it struck a chord with me.

It would be a change in tune for Peel because initially they didn't want a football stadium as part of their Liverpool Waters vision but it makes lots of sense.

I said at the time Moshiri came on board that if he is as ambitious as he seems, if I were him I'd have got got straight on the blower with Peel to see if something could be done. What a legacy that would be for him!

Ste Traverse
97 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:04:37
Move the club to Wirral? We're Scouse we're from Liverpool and belong here.

That would be worse than Kirkby ever was.

I'm not sure Tranmere would be too happy with that either.

Steavey Buckley
98 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:06:40
It says plenty about those who have been running Liverpool council all these years, Liverpool in need of more regeneration, Everton FC stll haven't got a stadium. No wonder local and national governments are useless running public services.
Damian Wilde
99 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:09:35
Intetesting Lyndon, does makes sense.

Ste (97) that made me laugh :D People's bluntness on here does make me chuckle.

Tony Abrahams
100 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:17:29
I don't know why Everton, not having a new stadium is anything to do with the council Steve, but the fact that Joe Anderson, has let this news out, tells me that this might be a joint enterprise, with Liverpool, going all out for the commonwealth games. Like most things this is Just a guess though!
Julian Wait
101 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:25:34
Bold words from the Mayor.
I will check back in a month to see if anything has changed.

(OK, being honest, I will be here hourly and even reading Twitter to find out if we're going to start acting like the big club we think we are.)

Phil Parker
102 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:26:50
Interesting that the club is insisting (rightly) that the stadium is within the city boundaries, but that it does not use the symbol of the city, the liver bird, to shift merchandise of the club. Tourism is big business for the city now, and everyone wants something to take home with the liver bird on it.

We are from Liverpool, and we were here first...we should use it as well as our tower. How someone from Malaysia or wherever can walk around with the symbol of my city on his arm, while I have two elephants from Thailand on my shirt...strange days indeed.
Brin Williams
103 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:34:51
I keep coming back to this motto thing on the Season Ticket renewal data. 'Nothing will be the same'
To me that say it all, or am I being too naive??
Peter Morris
104 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:36:31
This is all a bit strange, and the only element that has materially changed, and which in turn could have altered the landscape, is the arrival of Mr Moshiri and his money. Less than 3 year ago, Walton Hall Park was announced after 'an exhaustive and rigorous search of all of the potential sites in the city' , and yet now apparently, after all that, there are a couple of other sites which are better!!!
The retail landscape is no different to what it was a few years back. If anything, since the massive downturn in 2008, things have got a little bit better every subsequent year, so that is a red herring. Where Everton might be now, and where they certainly were not even 6 months ago, is that they no longer need other parties to take all of the capital risk, be they Tesco, Liverpool City Council or whoever. Very few clubs in the Premier League could dream of fully funding a totally new stadium on their own. Both West Ham and Man City had theirs effectively built by the taxpayer. Only Man United,(who are really a tourist attraction, not a football club, with their unique if strange world wide appeal), and Arsenal,( who can charge prices at the gate which are beyond Everton's fan base,and who in turn were stymied on the transfer front for the best part of a decade) have been able to fully fund complete stadia of scale since the founding of the Premier League. Do we want our beloved club in a faceless off the shelf 30,000 capacity stadium like The Liberty, King Power or St Mary's? No thanks!
Amit Vithlani
105 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:39:28
“The proposed scheme at Walton Hall Park was always an ambitious one. It was a regeneration scheme that relied heavily on retail investment into the site."

And

"...we are hopeful that the new sites provide us with a much more straightforward, deliverable opportunity to build a new stadium.”

Reads like this to me: the Walton plans relied on pie in the sky revenue generation from non-football activities to prop up an a highly optimitic investment case. Now, the club has a credible source of wonga (from a wealthy new shareholder) for the project and can look at the best sites from a purely footballing point of view.

Purely my reading of the matter. Its a major step forward if the club's plans are being taken seriously....

Kevin Rowlands
106 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:40:39
If it is Usmanov coming on board this summer, Russia's richest man, a 300m stadium will be no problem. As for Kenwright what a hatrick KD, Kirkby and now WH, this news right on the back of him and his cronies mates Green and Earl walking away with millions in profit for being a failure and the other two for doing absolutely nothing, makes my blood boil, shameless bastards.
Joe Clitherow
107 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:43:25
I'd much prefer a waterfront stadium. It just seems to have more kudos somehow - but definitely not on Wirral side.

Also, walking through Stanley Park in the sunshine on Sunday for the first time in ages I'm really glad that there are no plans to build there. It is really a beautiful park with the lake and the bandstand and I'm really against removing precious green space from inner cities. It never comes back. The city would definitely gain more from a stadium development of a disused dock than a recreational park space.

Clive Rogers
108 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:43:31
Ste #77,
The fact is that the footprint is just not big enough. We don't even own the land the park end car park is on, as they found out when they tried to build a store on it. There's more to grounds than seats nowadays.
Colin Malone
110 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:47:17
If Joe's comments are correct it looks like it's doing up Goodison unless they are buying it from Ikea. Then it could go for a football village, as the lads from KEIOC put forward. Wonder if we will get a say, if we do move? Bestway site in the Everton area.
Julian Wait
111 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:50:58
I am from the Wirral, my dad was from Bootle. I don't like the divisiveness re. Wirral vs. Liverpool, my family comes from both sides, and indeed still remain on both side of the water.

When I was back last year, I saw the Wirral docks and it would be a great location, but I also don't think it would be the right place to move to; Everton belong in Liverpool, and my preference would be (i) waterfront or (ii) somewhere with a higher vantage point and profile than Liverpool.

My concern about anything else would be to always be in the metaphorical and actual shadows of the burgeoning Towers of Mordor.

Lyndon Lloyd
112 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:53:08
Phil (102), I believe Liverpool FC took the audacious (and, frankly, typical) step of copyrighting/trademarking the Liver bird for football purposes so we'd be facing an uphill battle in reclaiming "the bird" as blue, even though we had it first on our first league championship medals.
Dan Davies
113 Posted 16/05/2016 at 17:58:18
I actually believe this one might go ahead. Getting rid of the manager and speaking about a new stadium within a week of each other?

Seems like somebody has drive and ambition we've not seen for way too long, and their initials aren't B K !! I'm not getting excited just yet though.

Mr. Moshiri is pulling strings it seems! Interesting times.
About time. Bring it on.

Damian Wilde
114 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:10:39
"Interesting that the club is insisting (rightly) that the stadium is within the city boundaries, but that it does not use the symbol of the city, the liver bird, to shift merchandise of the club."

Why would it? It's so very much linked with the RedShite, I would not want it near anything of ours.

Joe Clitherow
115 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:12:11
Lyndon

They copyrighted their Liver Bird logo, not the Liver Bird per se as it is a symbol of Liverpool as a city. The Echo for example use the Liver Bird extensively. The logo is a very specific thing and they did it understandably to clamp down on unofficial merchandise. It would be perfectly to use a Liver Bird representation that was not identical to the RS symbol. Plenty of businesses in the city do.

Besides, who wants a blue Liver Bird as - trademark or not - less informed people would think we were cashing in on them. They got the Liver Bird, we got Prince Rupert's Tower. That's just how it is.

Ian Burns
116 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:17:02
I left my beloved city far too many years ago and I am a little sketchy as far as trying to remember where the various docks are (apart from the Albert Dock of course), so as fascinated as I am by this thread I am finding it difficult to visualise, despite the help of Google Earth with regards to the various sites mentioned.

However the point of my post is to ask if anybody can explain why these waterfront sites are now possibly on the agenda having wasted so many years on Kirby; WHP etc. They must have been there since the King's Dock fiasco, so why the sudden appearance of them as suitable sites?

Or is this just guesswork on the part of contributors to this thread - still fascinating - just a question!

Phil Bellis
117 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:21:37
Lyndon, as many will know our 1st champions medal had the Liver Bird and red rose of Lancashire displayed but it was the proper bird from the City's coat of arms
I think the other lot copyrighted their cartoon version. didn't they?
Imagine how pissed they'd be if we used the heraldic version!
Julian Wait
118 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:22:24
No way should we use that ugly emu as anything connected with our club.
Chris Bentham
119 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:26:47
Liverpool waters and Wirral Waters concept began in 2006.

They had estimated at the time 30 years for the development and seeing as how nothing has happened for 10 years suggest they could be our perfect partner.

imagine though our famous waterfront having a 60,000 blues stadium in the images.. Call it Peel Park for all I care to get the land.

Lyndon Lloyd
120 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:28:09
Joe (115), that's sort of what I was getting at but your explanation is clearer. Obviously the city uses the symbol as does the Echo as you point out.
Clive Rogers
121 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:28:12
We should have every faith in Moshy he's obviously got the drive to sort out the atrocious mess left by Kenwright. Twenty wasted years. I can't think of one positive thing he did.
Neil Quinn
122 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:30:57
Dan @ 113 - Regarding Moshiri now pulling the strings. There was a post on another forum the other day from an alleged "ITK" that this summer will see Moshiri increase his stake to 75%. He is reported to have some serious investors (non football people) in the wings.

Would be lovely if true.

Neil Fitzsimons
123 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:34:25
Someone may already have mentioned this, but surely Liverpool should be pushing for Commonwealth Games as MCFC did and the Hammers with the Olympic Stadium have proved

Liverpool has the travel, hotels and general infrastructure to make this happen? Any thoughts....

Bill Watson
124 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:37:00
LFC attempted to copyright the Liver Bird and failed, due mainly to opposition from the City Council. One of the arguments against was that there were variations of the bird so it was impossible for one body to 'own' it.
Julian Wait; Phil is correct and we used the symbol right into the 1930s

My preference would be to redevelop Goodison. I believe the guy who redesigned Twickenham (originally very similar to Goodison) put forward plans to redevelop Goodison. Does anyone remember this or even have a link.

Damian Wilde
125 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:44:36
Julian, I like the Wirral, just our statium geographically does not belong there.

I had another message from my mate (see my post at 29 if you haven't already seen) after I asked him to elaborate (judt to note they were not meeting about the stadium, other business matters:

"Never really mentioned much else mate. Says it's either there or Knowsley, but docks their preferred option."

Colin Glassar
126 Posted 16/05/2016 at 18:47:56
Build a beautiful stadium on our side of the river and let the Wirral people look at it in awe.
James Marshall
128 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:01:51
The RS can keep the Liver bird, and walk alone with it as far as I care.

As for a riverside stadium sinking - what about The Riverside stadium in Middlesborough? Or the Stadium of Light in Sunderland?

Gavin Johnson
129 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:04:40
Stanley Park seems the obvious location, especially given the RS had no problems getting planning permission.

Sell Rom and Stones, use the money for the squad rebuild and build a stadium without being dependent on retail.

Colin Metcalfe
130 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:10:54
I have a flat in Herculeneum Quay and can walk by the river to Princes Dock in about 25 mins but I fail to see just where they could put a 60,000 seater stadium however further north to Trafalger Dock and beyond there is really is tons of space and massive underused warehouses right next to the waterfront .

Come on Everton lets make this happen it would be a real statement not only for the club but for the city !

Stu Smith
131 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:14:34
I was chatting to a friend of mine who is not an Everton fan but does have some good insight into the club. He was telling me that Everton & Liverpool City council have looked at a joint scheme IF Liverpool wins to host the 2026 Commonwealth Games.
Jay Wood
132 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:18:52
Colin @ 130.

That was my doubt about the Princes Dock rumour. It's some years since I made a pilgrimage back to the city, but not THAT long ago and from recall, I couldn't see how they could squeeze a 60,000 stadium in the remaining acreage.

Trafalgar Dock makes more sense, with its ample neglected space, is no distance away, offers the iconic waterfront location and any such development would be welcomed by LCC, I'm sure.

Fun to dream, isn't it..?

Tony Hogan
133 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:19:00
Stanley Park?
Brian Harrison
134 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:31:06
I cant remember another club that keeps coming up with proposals for a new ground, yet nothing ever happening. Why is the mayor telling us we will have a new stadium in 3 years, why not our chairman, or the majority shareholder.


Julian Wait
135 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:39:41
Damien - we agree .. I said it does NOT belong there, despite the great locations potentially available near the docks.
Stephen Brown
136 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:40:55
I'm not sure I can cope with all this potential good news!
A new stadium in the docks, Jose Mourinho as manager, 100m on players!
It can't happen?! Can it?!
John Keating
137 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:41:47
I remember the drawings and the model that did the rounds of the Kings Dock stadium - fabulous
The thought of resurrecting that would be "phenomenal"
As far as I'm concerned if we could not get anything in the City centre/central dock area then we should redevelop Goodison.
Agree with Joe, leave the Parks as is, a great shame to bulldoze them to build a stadium.
I agree with Neil 7
In my opinion, going the match is a lot more than just watching the game.
Meeting mates and family for a few bevvys before and after and a short walk to the stadium is all part and parcel.
Local Club, local ground, local ale houses ! Tell me what's better than all of that ?
Mike Mulhall
139 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:45:24
To be honest am sick of hearing about stadiums, I will get excited and interested once the plans are confirmed; until such time, I am not interested.

I do believe Moshiri is not messing about and I do believe it'll happen asap so he can start getting a return on his investment but, as I say, I have enough on my plate to be spending time fantasising about what might be.

Sorry, is that miserable??

Tom Evans
140 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:49:25
Colin#126.
On my visits back to the town of my birth, I wander up to the top of Whetstone Lane and peer across the river, and with only the slightest bit of imagination, can see what could have been with regards Kings Dock. If there is one thing that will forever be the defining issue of the failure of Kenwright, it will be the sight of the Echo Arena on the site of what would have become an iconic waterfront stadium.
Ged Simpson
141 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:52:52
Yeah Colin. All those scousers who, as soon as they got a few quid, moved to the Wirral... they are forever looking in awe. I don't think we should put the ground there but don't think Liverpool is seen as THE place to live. To many of us, the reality is it is a great place to visit now and then, go to work or even half fill the People's Club ground if we can afford it!
Eugene Ruane
142 Posted 16/05/2016 at 19:59:12
Re (spits) 'them', because we have 'class' (pur-LEASE!) we allow them and their bird to YNWA all over the fucking city.

If it was up to me (nb: someone with no class) you wouldn't be able to move 20 yds in any direction in Liverpool without seeing 'Everton F.C - The City's Original Football Team' (fuck 'The People's Club' - spell it out).

What good is this 'class; if no one knows you exist?

Plus, given PL sides are allowed to carry the CL stars (nb: a different competition) we should stick 'Football League Founder members 1888/89.' and 'Premier League Founder members 1992/93' on our shirts (and posters, t-shirts...)

I'd love us to redevelop Goodison, but there is also a very appealing image in my mind of a spanking new ground in the docks with a gateway/entrance that says 'Everton F.C - The City's Original Football Team', in neon letters (so big they can be seen from Rhyl) that would drive them fucking nuts.

I picture a baffled German tourist looking at our new state-of-the-art, city-centre ground, all lit up: "I em a liddle confused - Liverpoolz Anfield stadium iss nod in ze centre off ze ciddy?"

Hopefully Moshiri's thinking will be 'fuck class, let's have the best of everything, win a load of stuff and build a ground that makes the spruced up Anfield look like a bus shelter in croccy (lad).

Colin Glassar
144 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:02:03
Same here Tom, whenever I see the Echo Arena I feel sad and angry.
Phil Martin
145 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:03:15
I'm aroused by such a prospect Eugene.
Mike Berry
146 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:05:45
Sorry, lads... has to be Goodison every time. So many memories and Ghosts.
Peter Morris
147 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:08:15
Don't get too carried away with the prospects of anything being viable in the north dockland area. Essentially, ALL of the property over the dock wall (where the Crowne Plaza and Malmaison are etc) right up to Seaforth, is owned by Peel Holdings. They are a profit-driven property company who do not, to my knowledge, benignly donate their freehold property to other private companies (such as EFC).

It's one thing having the city council on board (they owned the King's Dock site, hence their ownership of the Echo Arena), and another trying to deal with the likes of Peel. It only serves to remind us, as time and time again we have been reminded, what a massive missed fucking opportunity the King's Dock was!

Robin Cannon
148 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:08:53
@Tom (140) - Yeah, far and away my biggest disappointment. We could have had an iconic, modern stadium dominating the entire skyline of the entire city. Instead we nearly got stuck in a portakabin in Kirby.
Jay Wood
149 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:13:55
From Princes Dock to Stonebridge Cross in less than a day!

No thanks, Damian!

Oh, to be singing Ottis Redding numbers, sitting in the shadow of Everton's iconical stadium on the waterfront.

Colin Glassar
150 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:14:13
Saying that, Peter, have they actually built anything yet? Peel seem to be having problems getting their Manhattan style skyline off the ground.
Tony I'Anson
151 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:19:47
I've listened to the assistant Mayor (Nick Small) commentson the radio.

Has anyone asked what is the source and cost of financing for a long term infrastructure project of this nature, whether it be a shiny new waterfront stadium or a redeveloped Goodison Park?

Mike Green
152 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:26:45
Joking aside Eugene, why don't we do that? We should make a lot more of our history, it's only us who know about it you know.

Point in case, I've got a new boss, very switched on, lifelong Baggies fan, had NO idea about our beginnings. Likewise I was on the train out of London a couple of weeks ago, got talking to a Red in his late 20's from Croxteth who flatly refused to believe how they were borne out of us and told his mate it was a 'bitter blue conspiracy theory'!!! Unbelievable.

Having said that is there a local team that precedes us....?

Oh, damn it, let's just do it! :)

Jack Convery
153 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:28:42
The old adage - Money Talks - comes to mind. Moshiri has the money and Anderson who has the power have got together. Anderson wants Liverpool City to be a monument to his belief of being greater than Manchester - hence his bid to ensure Lime Street Station is on the upgrade for the HS2 rail improvement. I reckon this is it and Damians' mate may well have shown us were X actually marks the spot. I'm liking Mr Moshiri he gets things done. Is this really EFC we are tailking about ? I just hope they bring the pitch with them - too many ashes of blue bloods in that soil to leave it behind.
Joseph Walsh
154 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:28:55
Another failed project from Bert and Ernie - namely Messrs Kenwright and Elstone.

I do have some hope that Moshiri has come in and finally has a "plan" to move the dial at long last - something the other two muppets couldn't do in 20 years under Kenwright

James Marshall
156 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:32:59
I rarely agree with Eugene, but on this I absolutely agree.

A flashy new ground bang in the city would help put us on the map. We all love Goodison, but it's old-hat, a tin-pot stadium from a bygone era that we would do well to let go of in some ways.

We need a new vision, a new Everton, not the stuffy old Grandad of the Premier League telling stories of it's glory years all the time - and that's what we are. We stink of mothballs and Pears soap, when we should be shiny, modern and 21st century. 1878 was a very good year, but it's the future that really matters.

We were left behind when the Premier League started, and now is THE time to make future proofed choices that catapult us back up to the top - modernise the club from top to bottom, starting with the playing staff, a new manager, and a NEW stadium in the heart of the city.

Fuck the RS - they can stay out at Mordor and pull up the drawbridge while we rule on the waterfront!

Colin Glassar
157 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:33:23
Like Eugene I also want it to make a huge statement. So huge that it will be seen in outer space!!
James Marshall
158 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:39:12
Exactly, Colin - nobody knows we exist, we're insignificant to the masses. I speak to a lot of people outside of Liverpool who have never even heard of Everton!

Accrington Stanley? Who are they?

Everton? Who are they?

Ian Burns
159 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:41:03
James, everybody knows Man Utd; Arsenal; Liverpool; now Leicester and people have always known Accrington Stanley. We have ground to make up.
Andy Walker
160 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:47:08
When Kings Dock was first talked about I wrote to Uncle Bill with an idea (but never received a reply).
My wondrous jape was to have a blue laser beam coming from the stadium on match days, creating a giant Everton badge above the Mersey calling all the faithful.
The best part of it (imho) is when the other lot are playing at home we could turn the beam around 180 degrees and shine our badge so it shone down on all the unbelievers, and there wouldn't be a thing they could do about it.
Bitter? Nah. Childish? Maybe, but that wouldn't bother me at all.
Mark Ryan
161 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:47:50
It's clear that Mr Moshiri will want his investment to work and therefore it follows that he will want to build the new stadium as soon as is humanly possible. Goodison is a money pit and he would never have taken on the project if he had not already received assurances over Everton being allowed to build the new home for EFC. Y

ou must give Bill K the credit for finding the right investor and although it has taken time for him to achieve this I'm so very glad he never shook hands with Randy Lerner when he came knocking. BK is a fan just like you and I and I know I'm in the minority here when I say " well done for finding us the right man in Mr M. The future is bright and I hope that Bill gets to see it all come to fruition because he deserves it. Have some trust in the man.
Colin Glassar
162 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:53:02
Like the Batman sign, Andy? I like it
David Greenwood
163 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:56:02
Great idea Andy.
Mike Hughes
164 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:56:07
Every time I drive past our waterfront, I am really impressed with how they've built it all, blending the old with the new. It just looks fabulous. (Traffic control systems aside that is as they are diabolical).

Then I drive past where our ground should have been and it really pisses me off. Talk about missed opportunity for a measly £30m.

Let's hope we really do make a statement here with a new waterfront stadium. I'd like it to be part of the tourist route with the Archibald Leitch designs incorporated into it. And the waterfront location would allow some great lighting effects to be seen for miles around (similar to the Allianz arena).

(How about a rollercoaster "the ToffeeCoaster" designed into the stadium roof and architecture (like the New York NewYork Hotel in Las Vegas). This would reflect the nature of being an Evertonian!!! I suspect I've had too much coffee today.)

Link

Brin Williams
165 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:57:41
Eugene!! FFS you have to think further than RHYL m8 - think BIG !!!
Phil Parker
166 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:57:47
There is a lack of knowledge of who Everton are and what we have done, amongst tourists to the city and sometimes our own supporters. The new stadium could be a game changer in so many ways for our club. A museum inside the ground, featuring the fabulous collection of Dr. David France, telling people that we were founder members of the first football league in the world, and are still at the top. We are an amazing story.

I have just checked my first team top, Gertrude and Abigail are still smiling under the lager fountain,(don't they know it's Chang), Freddie the French peacock is asking can he make a comeback on our shirt, for money of course, but our bird is still complaining that she has been whizzed by our young upstarts. Maybe she can rejoin us at our new nesting place.
James Marshall
167 Posted 16/05/2016 at 20:58:00
I've been on that coaster, Mike, daytime and at night. It's marvellous.

The blue emblem thing is a great idea by the way!

Mike Hughes
168 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:00:20
James - I've been in that hotel for a meal but chickened-out of the coaster ride.
James Marshall
169 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:03:43
Ha! I sat at the front (I'm a big coaster fan) AFTER a meal in the hotel!
Andy Meighan
170 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:05:04
Damian (#29), if you're lying, I'll personally come gunning for you.

Every time I go near the Echo Arena, I could cry. Before I open my mouth, my wife says in a mocking voice, "That should have been our ground, that."

Yes but it's not, is it... so don't even go there.

Bobby Thomas
171 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:05:38
I know there's a new sherriff with a fat wad in town but kicking off the 2019/20 season in a new stadium sounds extremely fanciful to me.

Chris Bentham
172 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:05:40
Nah... Kings Dock would have been too small ha let's go bigger.

West Ham have 52,000 season tickets sold for their new stadium; we are buzzing if it's over 25,000.

60-70,000 minimum with concessions for the younger generations and free tickets for OAPs.

Don't forget bring the overhead railway back, James Street station to Trafalgar Dock development.

Iain Latchford
173 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:10:44
Allianz Stadium is very impressive. I like the way lights up. I'd like ours to have the facility to take off and fly about, with ELO playing Mr Blue Sky.
Dick Fearon
174 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:10:45
Here we go again, the merest mention of a site sends everyone off in different directions. protest groups pop up everywhere, everything gets buried and forgotten.
Boys pen Bill keeps his head down until sufficient excuses for inaction have been made.
As with previous versions this latest stadium bubble will burst and we will remain our usual state of loyal unhappiness.

Martin Mason
175 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:13:44
Mike@164 et al.

£30 million was never, ever going to be enough from Everton to do the KD development, not even double or maybe even treble that. We didn't have the money to do the deal that is why we didn't get the ground. Nothing to do with Kenwright, the club was penniless and in no position to do it. Kenwright thought for a while that the £30 mm could be raised but the lender knew that it wasn't enough and that EFC couldn't repay it anyway.

DK wasn't lost because of BK, the planning review ruled that another retail development wasn't needed in the Kirkby area and it was the retail development that financed the ground.

Walton Hall also hasn't been lost by BK and the process of finding a new ground is still ongoing. Again we don't have the finance to develop a ground without the help of outside agencies. We really need to stop generating and repeating these myths as some may start believing them.

Eugene Ruane
176 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:19:29
Mike (152) - 'Joking aside Eugene, why don't we do that? We should make a lot more of our history, it's only us who know about it you know.'

Er..not joking.
Mike Hughes
177 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:24:35
Martin - where did I point the finger at BK in my post #164?
James Marshall
178 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:25:51
Iain@173

That's a great idea. We could do fly-bys over Mordor and drop things on them.

Damian Wilde
179 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:26:52
Peter, they don't own the hotels, just the land.
James Marshall
180 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:29:00
Looking at the Allianz Arena on Google images, it looks epic. There's a photo of the new Wembley thrown in that makes it look like it's made of Meccano by comparison.

We should build our very own Allianz Arena.

Peter Cummings
182 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:31:01
It seems to me that city council members would be happy if we disappeared altogether and just have their red luvvies be the only team representing the city along with the reds obsessed Liverpool Echo.
The way EFC have been treated over the last several years by the Town Hall beaurocrats has been nothing short of criminal with roadblocks being raised on every suggestion made by the club to better itself and its fans in suggestions relating especially to a new stadium site.
On that issue and as a lover of EVERTON and it's hallowed traditions I would be made up if those traditions would continue to flourish from a completely renovated and upgraded Goodison Park. and to hell with the mealy mouthed nay sayers, in the words of a VERY old codger, 'We Were Here First', and here we will stay
Iain Latchford
183 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:31:57
I've only be passed it in the day. In a taxi, doing about 140mph, with a hangover, and a black eye.
Kevin Rowlands
184 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:36:20
Martin Mason #175, is Kenwright, Green and Earl walking away with millions after the sale of Everton after all three invested fuck all a myth?
Dick Fearon
185 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:37:43
Martin M 175, Other than keeping his head down til the stadium bubble burst I did not accuse Bill of anything.

What he should have done before those bubbles were floated was to give them his honest and realistic assessment of there chances.

With Moshiri on board one of Bill's main excuses for inaction has gone.
Peter Howard
186 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:37:48
Eugene (142) is bang on.

I love the idea of Trafalgar Dock.

Call the ground ' Trafalgar Stadium' and offer away supporters cheap accommodation at the Lord Nelson hotel.Then, every October offer free rum at the ground.The Spanish and French teams would hate playing us in Europe.

Surely, 'victory' would be guaranteed.

I'm going for a lie down now.......'...kiss me Moshi.....'

Eugene Ruane
188 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:56:05
If the choice is between the two sites being suggested by the Echo, I am starting a 'WE WANT DOCKY NOT CROCKY!' campaign right here.
Bobby Thomas
189 Posted 16/05/2016 at 21:59:14
Martin #175, we will ignore the fact they entered into 3 developments they didn't have the dollar for then. Small detail. Myth.

Cue the smoke and mirrors......

Bobby Thomas
190 Posted 16/05/2016 at 22:01:20
Peter #182

Everton have been fucking the council around for years!!

Ian Riley
191 Posted 16/05/2016 at 22:02:47
Is it that difficult to find land to spare in Liverpool? How much is this costing the club for every planning proposal? Could we redevelop goodison? Play at Anfield for three years. Knock Goodison down and rebuild. Simple really!! Then return to our 60,000 seater sadium.

Peter Morris
193 Posted 16/05/2016 at 22:22:28
Damian(179),
I was aware of that and indeed you underpin my point. As Colin points out too in an earlier post(150), Peel are all about gaining from turning brown field ,derelict former industrial and dockland property into prime retail, commercial and residential space, but crucially NOT WITH THEIR OWN MONEY. They do very little of the property development themselves, and none if they can get away with it. Much better to use other people's money. Their game is to attract tenants and developers to build on their land(and they never sell them the freehold) so that their own land values consequently mushroom. In terms of the hotels, Peel provide the land, a funder(possibly a bank)covers the hotel build subject to a branded hotel operator signing up to the scheme and providing the rental income. There are numerous snouts in these troughs. Liverpool and Wirral Waters will only happen if Peel are able to persuade Chinese or Middle East Sovereign Wealth Funds to stump up the bill. Peel just sit back and watch the value of their land go into the stratosphere if their plans come off. I think what they would be attracted to is a stadium development which added value and kudos to their overall land stock, rather like the current Etihad did in East Manchester, and possibly a 'Commonwealth Games' labelled project would have more pulling power than Everton alone?
Colin Glassar
194 Posted 16/05/2016 at 22:34:12
Thank you for that info Peter. I suspected there was something fishy about that lot.
Clive Rogers
195 Posted 16/05/2016 at 22:39:12
Kevin #184,
Correct. Kenwright has become a very rich man out of EFC, after never putting a single penny in. Loves the club, don't make me laugh. Its himself he's in love with.
Winston Williamson
196 Posted 16/05/2016 at 22:50:38
Forgive me if I'm repeating something which has already been said, but,

Pre-moshiri, when LCC received contact from EFC regarding a new stadium, I'd imagine the first thought would be "but you're skint and couldn't organise a fucking tea party"

However, we get a billionaire business man on board and all of a sudden we're starting to be taken seriously! I bet the difference of dealing with suntan Bob and moshiri is night and day to LCC!

Stephen Ashton
197 Posted 16/05/2016 at 22:55:15
Morgan #75 Kevin#106,
I have heard from well connected Arsenal friends that Usmanov has had his fill of the Kronke Wenger penny pinching alliance and will indeed be joining his best friend sometime this year. This is why the purchase was structured in the way it was as Usmanov will require a majority shareholding.
Eugene Ruane
198 Posted 16/05/2016 at 22:56:55
Peter (193 - 'Peel just sit back and watch the value of their land go into the stratosphere if their plans come off.'

I'm clueless as to how all this works regarding privately owned land and councils and would love to know if you (or anyone else) know if councils can exert any pressure in a 'shit or get off the pot' way.

I suppose what I mean is, an individual can own land but the council can say what that individual can and/or can't build on it.

Just curious to know the full extent of the council's powers (as I say, I know nothing of how this type of 'thing' works).

Morgan Edwards
199 Posted 16/05/2016 at 23:05:51
Stephen #197, I received similar information from a good source. Quite by accident I bumped into a guy at work who was well connected at the club. Some of the stuff said has happened i.e. in his words Martinez was a dead man walking. This was three months ago!
Colin Glassar
200 Posted 16/05/2016 at 23:06:15
Stephen, I've heard the Usmanov rumours as well but he's going to have a hard time tracking down the other 50.01% of shares as they are held by thousands of small shareholders, or so I've been told.

To build a new stadium will need big money and I can't see Moshiri doing this on his own. If Usmanov wants to come on board and take us forward then, welcome aboard tovaritch.

Garry Corgan
201 Posted 16/05/2016 at 23:21:27
Ok, so it seems our PR department have finally done something useful and relatively smart for once!

I'm sure it no coincidence that word of exciting new stadium plans has leaked days into our search for a new manager. Fair play.

Damian Wilde
202 Posted 16/05/2016 at 23:26:47
Thanks Peter, interezting information.

Colin's point about the 50.01% was my very first thought. Unless Moshiri sells him a bit of his. Can't seem him coming on board, but could be decent if he does. Ia the other reason for Moshiri's specific stake due to Bill?

I love Goodison. I have a great seat. Though I was shifted for the cup qf to the main stand (away fans had mine). Leg room was crap. Slight post in the way and shocking concourse. I sat there and thought 'feck me we need a new ground'. Posts in the way is a joke.

Ian Pilkington
203 Posted 16/05/2016 at 23:47:12
I think the most probable site to be offered by Peel would be inland in the area between Trafalgar and Huskisson Docks. Whilst not directly on the waterfront (which Peel has committed to the Liverpool Waters scheme), this location would provide excellent public transport connections, being adjacent to the important Merseyrail Station at Sandhills, would be convenient for access to both tunnels and main road arteries to the north and east, and is reasonably close to the City Centre.
BK's Kirkby and Walton Hall Park schemes would have marginalised the club from the city and were both totally impractical for parking and public transport.
Peel clearly could never have regarded BK as a viable partner, but everything has changed now we have serious investor.
Eddie Dunn
204 Posted 16/05/2016 at 23:48:21
For the record, I don't want a new stadium built on someone's nice park. We are losing local amenities to greedy developers all over the place, so let's not help to make city dwellers lose much needed green space.
I would be in favour of a dockland home or a redevelopment of Goodison with all of our wonderful history.
I am from the Wirral, but Everton, despite it's many fans on the peninsular, is a Liverpool entity, and we must not allow the dark ones to claim a monopoly on our citadel.
Incidentally, I have lived in London and Nottingham as well as my current home in West Wales, and the ignorance of your average Brit regarding Everton is pretty shocking.
The amount of people, who know I am from Wirral , who have asked me "If Everton are a Wirral team, and Liverpool from Liverpool?" runs into scores.
I once worked in an animation studio in London, where no-one apart from me had been north of Watford!
If we leave our Goodison site, then we should go all out for a waterfront site, as near to the city centre as possible.
I want to see those red pricks looking on as our new home rises above the horizon, and I want all of the shoppers in town to hear the roar, on matchday, when the goals go in.
It is time for us to reclaim the city.
By the way, was I the only one who thought it hilarious that all of those Man U fans wasted so much money travelling from all over the world to see the game abandoned ? I particularly liked the 2 dicks from Dallas who seemed to be wearing the whole club shop !
Lovely.
Dan Murphy
205 Posted 16/05/2016 at 23:56:05
It's obvious . Build an iconic '4th grace' stadium in the north docks, as close to the city centre as possible. Solve access issues with a modern Liverpool overhead railway (the original went thru the area). Could also have direct ferry access from Birkenhead. would do lots to revitalize the city and be a big drawcard. C'mon Mr Moshiri
Dan Davies
206 Posted 16/05/2016 at 23:56:37
Excited posters tonight everyone! The more I've thought about it this evening the more I've had a grin on my face thinking of the RS being envious of a shiny new stadium. Yes please.

Things look to be happening for us all if a sudden because Kenwright is finished and there's a new man running the show.

Jumping the gun maybe but when I first joined TW I was belittled by a certain someone when I dared to mention that Mr. Usmanov might be lurking in the shadows.

Moshiri works for Usmanov still does. Other posters tonight have mentioned Usmanov yet have not been challenged... interesting that.

Anyways with Kenwright not calling the shots anymore there is more chance of us getting a new stadium than ever. NSNO.

Kevin Rowlands
207 Posted 16/05/2016 at 00:07:38
Thanks for that info Stephen #107, if you do a simple search on twitter you can find lots of info from different sources that believe this to be true, I also read that it was David Dein that helped put the deal with Moshiri and ultimately Usmanov and Kenwright together as him and Kenwright are good friends. Oh and also if we get any holier than thou goody two shoes saying they don't want this to happen because Usmanov's money is 'dirty' please go away. Anyone think Abramovich, the Arabs at City, the Frasers, John Henry, Leicesters owner, Sullivan and Gold etc etc made their money 'cleanly'? not a fucking chance. If and when Usmanov comes on board with his and Moshiri's wealth combined it makes John Henry look like Bill Kenwright, bring it on!!!
Dennis Stevens
208 Posted 17/05/2016 at 00:21:12
Unless it's a landmark stadium in a significantly better location I'd much rather redevelop Goodison Park, especially if we are able to enlarge the current footprint.
Kevin Rowlands
209 Posted 17/05/2016 at 00:56:05
#197!
Kevin Rowlands
210 Posted 17/05/2016 at 00:56:05
#197!
Barry Williams
211 Posted 17/05/2016 at 01:47:30
For me 3 years seems to be a tad optimistic, I hope I am really really wrong here. When is the Mayor up for reelection? Pardon my cynicism. I have lived abroad for over 15 years, coming back to Liverpool generally every year. One of the things I often notice is the amount of derelict ground around the city that has been derelict for decades. So it puzzles me why building on a park would have been considered, given that residents nearby would be aggrieved.

I know things like infrastructure have to be taken into account (along with a million other things), but the infrastructure around Goodison is bloody awful, it wouldn't take much to better it. I went to my first match at Goodison in 1980 when Latchford scored a hatrick in a 5-0 romp against Crystal Palace, had season tickets etc. and would love to see Goodison redeveloped, but what a massive job that is. It would take more than 3 years mentioned here and still have the same crap approach to the stadium, poor train connections and annoyance to local residents (I know, my Gran lived in Walton Village), as well as a reduced capacity for a time.

I hate to say it but we need to move from Goodison as paying near 50 quid to try and get a decent speck in the main stand is ludicrous, especially one that still has obstructive views, or spending less and looking at the inside of the roof of the lower Gladys for half the match trying to guess where the ball will land! Goodison has been left behind and a new stadium has to be a complete departure, with decent parking specs too. It should be an advert for the city, at the moment it is a very sorry advert for the city.
Terry Murphy
212 Posted 17/05/2016 at 02:54:02
Let the Koppites have a Liver Bird, they can light it up red at night, staring out from the Pier Head towards their fanbase. We'll have the other one lit up blue and facing the city.
Shaun Murphy
213 Posted 17/05/2016 at 03:08:37
The waterfront isn't viable, it's a shipping area towards Bootle and it stinks with all the waste getting shipped to China. Trust me, I drive a taxi down there every day. Also the Mersey tunnel vents for all the fumes is next to Costco so I wouldn't fancy that either.

We had a chance before the Echo arena was built and we blew it. Knock the Park End down and build a beast – two tiers with boxes in the middle.
Eric Myles
214 Posted 17/05/2016 at 03:46:47
Ian #116, it's simple, these sites are now available because Kenwright is not involved.
Eric Myles
215 Posted 17/05/2016 at 03:51:38
Clive #108, we do own the Park End car park, it's just that there's a covenant on it, and the rest of the ground, due to the mortgage on it.
Colin Metcalfe
216 Posted 17/05/2016 at 04:03:32
Shaun # 213 If Peel holdings are hanging on to that piece of land in the hope that's someone is going to go ahead with Liverpoolwaters project then a stadium is definitely viable !

If you look at the plans it's pretty impressive , hotels , residential space and yes why not a shiney new stadium it might just be the spark that the project need to get going .

As for the redevelopment of Goodison ... Well don't get me wrong I love the old place but it's looking so tired these days and just how much would it cost to redevelop ? Plus you would still have obstructed views at varies parts of the ground , it's a 20th century stadium and sadly it's time to leave .

I remember a poster saying that they would rather stay at Goodison than building a soulless bowl well for my part having been to The Emirates and compared to to our place ... Give me the bowl any day of the week , let's stop living in the past and move forward !

Dick Fearon
217 Posted 17/05/2016 at 04:07:37
I am no expert on financial matters but would not a Moshiri / Usimov partnership only require a further one or two percent for them to take control.
Such a deal would mean they are not obliged to buy out any other shareholders.
I would appreciate enlightenment of my thoughts from someone who knows about such things.
Mike Benjamin
218 Posted 17/05/2016 at 06:59:16
A Walton Hall Park development would have taken years in public enquiries. That is probably what has led to the change.
Tony Draper
219 Posted 17/05/2016 at 08:17:33
New stadium to be built in the centre of "The City of Atlantis".
Bill Watson
220 Posted 17/05/2016 at 09:22:42
Dick: you're correct. You only need 50.01% for full control. So, there's no need to buy all the shares.

The advantage of buying the lot, or most, is to remove any board opposition and the requirement for awkward AGMs.

Paul Burns
221 Posted 17/05/2016 at 09:28:29
The new ground has to be as close to Liverpool city centre as possible.

The last thing we need is a stadium out by the motorway for the benefit of a couple of thousand away fans. Nonsense! Don't we have the biggest walk-up crowd in the league?

Peter Morris
222 Posted 17/05/2016 at 09:48:48
Eugene(193), Good morning,

In reality, there is very little local authorities can do to force private landowners to do something commercial that they would rather not do. There are public safety grounds, and CPO powers if for example, a major road scheme is being held up, but beyond that, they're stymied. Court proceedings would cost millions they don't have.

They can try to shame landowners to make a move, as with the retail project slowly taking shape on Edge Lane. These guys do tend to have very thick skins, and very deep pockets, so it is very difficult for local authorities in cases like this.

There was a piece in last night's Echo about the death of another major Liverpool land owner, Joe Davies, and those of you with long memories will recall the long running spats he had with councils over a major tract of brownfield land between 'Royal' Bootle Golf Course and the Giro off Dunnings Bridge Road.

Now that would have been a great stadium site, 2 miles from Switch Island. It's still largely undeveloped apart from some speculative office stuff on Dunnings Bridge itself I think. Anyway, it can't be on Mayor Joe's radar because it's in Sefton!

Scott Hamilton
223 Posted 17/05/2016 at 10:06:12
Dick (217) - Another 2% would give Moshiri majority shareholding but not carte blanche to do what he wants.

If his shareholding was 75% + 1 (i.e. 76%) then, unless the shareholders' agreement states otherwise, he could then do whatever he wanted with us.

Dennis Stevens
224 Posted 17/05/2016 at 10:11:40
Colin Metcalfe [216]
"... I remember a poster saying that they would rather stay at Goodison than building a soulless bowl well for my part having been to The Emirates and compared to to our place ... Give me the bowl any day of the week , let's stop living in the past and move forward ! "

You really think that's progress? It's a terrible stadium for football. The seats are too far from the pitch & the gradient is too shallow so the place lacks all atmosphere & sense of intensity, apart from when the away supporters all stand & generate some noise. A far cry from the excellent vibe they used to have at Highbury. So no thanks to the soul-less bowls, ta!

As I recall, someone posted a while back about redevelopments on the continent for one of the major tournaments, possibly in Germany [?], where there was great emphasis on creating modern stadiums akin to classic English style grounds - with 4 sides, fairly close to the pitch & a steeper gradient to keep more seats nearer & help create that intense atmosphere .

Martin Nicholls
225 Posted 17/05/2016 at 10:14:53
Scott (#223). EFC is a private company. Anything over 50% shares gives the holder absolute control – indeed in reality, 49.9% gives the holder such control.
Eugene Ruane
226 Posted 17/05/2016 at 10:18:38
Thanks Peter.

Maybe some agreement beneficial for all will be 'negotiated.'

Pictures twitchy, beaked-up, plazzy replica uzi wielding mob screaming at Sir Herbert Peelingforth (or whoever).

"Juss fuckin' sign it lad, swear down if y' don't, I'll fuckin blow yer 'ead raaar off lad, on me baby's life lad"

Etc lad.

Martin Nicholls
227 Posted 17/05/2016 at 10:20:51
Any of you guys go to 2015 EL final in Warsaw? I did - fabulous stadium built (I would guess) for a fraction of the cost that some are quoting for any new stadium. Way forward? Import a load of Polish builders, give them land, materials and plans - result great new stadium at reasonable cost!! All said tongue in cheek of course!
Geoff Williams
228 Posted 17/05/2016 at 10:56:27
If there is a choice of possible sites it has to be one well within the city. A waterfront site as close as possible to the city centre would be perfect. The status of the stadium should be such that it leaves Anfield in its wake.
John Louis Jones
229 Posted 17/05/2016 at 11:26:53
Martin #227 you are right I represent a Czech/Polish Lawyer out here in Prague, The Glass City of Warsaw, Every time you go back they have thrown another building up. 3 years from Now is more than enough time to build a new stadium.

Wanted to mention having worked a little with Peel and know how they work, Peel do all the ground work and use investors to do the build. They work along the same principle as a REIT (Look at Shaftbury They own most of London) Even though I don't know if Peel are registered as a REIT I think they are 22 in the UK. So having input from a very know Investor like Mr Moshri would be win - win for Peel. Also the plans for the water front have been place for years and Peel cannot build another Liverpool One just down the road, However a Football Stadium, Offices and Residential would be a investors dream (And LCC's all the extra Rates they would pull into the coffers)

Remember when the RS was going to Build on Stanley Park? My Ex Sister in-law work as a Project Manager on that site, Apparently from what I can remember the then Liverpool board Shafted Peel in a big way when that got dropped I mean Millions of Pounds down the Drain, Maybe this is Peel's way to stick 2 finger up to the RS.

Martin Nicholls
230 Posted 17/05/2016 at 11:54:00
Many thanks to the TW editor who removed the offensive and crass element of the post from Ste Traverse #97. I can never decide whether it is alcohol or a lack of basic intelligence/education that prompts this sort of comment. As to those (Damian Wilde #99) who "chuckle" about such remarks, you know what they say mate, "small things amuse small minds".
Graham Mockford
231 Posted 17/05/2016 at 12:50:58
Don't wish to be pissing on anyone's chips but I don't see a waterfront stadium as part of Liverpool Waters as being very likely.

It has to work as an investment proposal for Peel Holdings. These guys are ruled by numbers not any sort of sentiment. What's my yield, what's my return, what's the risk. They certainly have never shown an appetite to build stadium because ultimately residential, office and retail will definitely give them more in such high profile locations.
Also this is a highly complex development which could take 50 years to complete. It will be riddled with complexity. If three years is the aim, I just can't see it being on this site.

I'd start checking bus routes to Croxteth.

Damian Wilde
232 Posted 17/05/2016 at 13:51:56
Martin (230), some projection there?

As you're so clever, I'll leave you to work out what that means.

PS You snobbily talk about 'lack of intelligence, education/small minds' as one of your hypotheses. Well I have 'Level 8 qualifications' so you'd better get back to the drawing board, eh.

I see you're very upset 'offended' perhaps. I quite like Stephen Fry's quote on this:

"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

Chris Regan
233 Posted 17/05/2016 at 14:21:41
Martin 230, I have a Masters degree and swear all the time, I love it, it's more my lack of self control than education. Any ways the Echo is saying our site could be part of the City's Commonwealth games bid, I hope there not talking about a mixed football/athletics venue as they're fucking shite!
Martin Nicholls
234 Posted 17/05/2016 at 14:38:44
Damian & Chris. I swear a lot too but that wasn't the point! I floated an idea for discussion; it proved unpopular with most although some saw certain merits in it.

This is a discussion forum – and had you Damian floated a similar perfectly reasonable idea for discussion in a public place and a compete stranger had responded by telling you to "fuck off" to your face, I suspect that you would have done a little more than chuckle!

Nathan Rooney
235 Posted 17/05/2016 at 14:39:42
Im afraid I need to see actual tangible building works before I will ever thinks its true that we will ever have a new stadium,or redevelop Goodison.

My faith is eroded after the numerous false promises and BS spewed forth by Chairman Bill and his bum chums on our board for the last few decades.

Cmon, Moshiri, make me a believer again, please!

With regard to the liverbird issue - Terry#212 - spot on!

We had the bird first, why should we cede usage of our cities image to the usurpers?

Theres two of them anyway, so why can we not incorporate an opposite facing (to the pinkies versions) Blue Bird, which is combined with our tower etc on our club merchandise/paperwork/strip/crest? No copyright infringement there?

Eric Myles
236 Posted 17/05/2016 at 15:05:10
Martin#227, wiki has it costing £400mn and taking 4 years from concept drawings to completion
Eugene Ruane
237 Posted 17/05/2016 at 15:06:54
When you don't know what's happening', hard to read between the lines. But I'm thinking a little clearer today and my guess now is it'll be Crocky (lad). The 'it could be ready in three years' is what has convinced me. That site is (apparently) 'ready' and as there's no planning agreement for land at he docks (and that could take three years), my guess is, it's probably a done deal. Shame if it does work out that way and 'underwhelmed' won't do it justice if it does. My only hope is Moshiri (and his money). He might just look at Crocky and say 'get to fuck, I want the waterfront, bit of glamour, tourists akimbo' etc.
Martin Nicholls
238 Posted 17/05/2016 at 15:15:16
Eric#236. Yeah, I saw that (€500?). When I was there I commented to my mate that I would guess it cost a lot less than Wembley had done although at the time I didn't appreciate the difference in capacity as the Warsaw stadium seemed massive. Whatever, it's a hugely impressive stadium!
Colin Metcalfe
239 Posted 17/05/2016 at 15:18:49
Graham #231 you know mate you are probably right however Peel Holdings for the las 3/4 year have been going round all these trade fairs in the Middle East &Far East with their dreamy presentation and detailed models of Liverpool and Wirral Waters project and by all accounts they have been very successful creating a buzz and a fair amount of interest but that's it , 4 years on and it's still just a pipe dream .

I don't know how much money Mr Moshiri is willing to invest in a new stadium but you can be damm sure that Peel Holdings will sit down and hear what he's got to say because they know full well he is a businessman with friends and associates with seriously deep pockets it could be a win win for both parties .

Let's not be too quick to write it off just yet , keep dreaming boys keep dreaming !!

Graham Mockford
240 Posted 17/05/2016 at 15:31:01
Colin

I tend to find that businessmen with 'deep pockets' are most likely to be hardest nosed about investing their money.

It's not for me to write off, I'm sure everyone would 'want' a landmark stadium. But with my relatively limited real estate experience I know that a new site in Croxteth or the likes will be significantly cheaper than one situated in a city centre location. And I'm not sure realistically why it would deliver significantly more revenue.

I could off course be completely wrong but it's going to take a bit more than Damian Wilde's mate and his intimate working relationship with John Whittaker to get me dreaming.

COLIN DIXON
241 Posted 17/05/2016 at 15:48:51
The City Liverpool has a blueprint for financial development to expand from the centre..as we have seen with numerous investment and developments happening in the last decade.

The City is continuously looking for growth backed by the massive uplift of tourists and inward investment it continues to receive. North Liverpool Docks represents a major opportunity for this.

I would hazard a guess that this was a big pull with our new investor and his (friend).

The redevelopment of this area is inevitable...

I'll be amazed if Everton Football don't do everything within their power to part of the biggest change of the Liverpool landscape since world war 2.
Damian Wilde
242 Posted 17/05/2016 at 16:03:12
Martin, it was more a humerous F-off from Ste, not a nasty one (how I perceived it anyway). And yes, I found it funny (I actually laughed out loud). Doesn't mean you can belittle me (well try to). I'll remember not to laugh near you in future.

Personally, I would much prefer a water front stadium down at the docks, than Croxteth. As Eugene said "Docky, not Crocky".

Phil Bellis
243 Posted 17/05/2016 at 17:26:25
Crokky! Crokky!. Where the fuck,.,?
....as a Liverpool 8 man, I hate the term "Tokkie"
Reclaim the bird!
Ste Traverse
244 Posted 17/05/2016 at 17:54:27
Martin Nicholls #230.

May I apologise if you were so offended a little bit of industrial language you see often on TW.

And I can assure a sensitive soul like yourself that there was no alcohol involved when I posted that. At 17.04 I'd only just finished work, and I take it you don't even go to the match if you find a little bit bad language so offensive.

You simply came out with what I saw as the most ridiculous suggestion I've ever seen on here ie move the club to bloody Wirral ( so sorry about the language btw).

Do you not even remember the controversy over moving the club out of the City to Kirkby then you suggest moving over the water???

We're a football club, not a franchise to be shunted around.

Damian Wilde
245 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:07:56
More words ftom Joe Anderson. Clear political motives for him:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/could-new-Everton-stadium-help-11344102

Could be Croxteth :(

James Hughes
246 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:18:14
Gosh it's gotta be hard decision to make isn't It ? The docks area which overlook the Royal Blue Mersey (where I'll fight,fight fight etc) or Croxteth and it's park, ermmm.

Jay Wood
247 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:22:20
Just read your link Damian.

No issues with Joe tying an Everton stadium build in with a Commonwealth Games bid.

More concerned with:

1) the site being at Stonebridge Cross, rather than the waterfront

2) his clear statement that the stadium would NOT "just be for the Commonwealth Games but things like the European Athletics championships and other sporting events...

"The new ground could accommodate that. And most of these events take place outside the football season so the ground could be used all year round."

Continental multi-functional sports stadia like the one seemingly proposed here with an athletics track seriously distance spectactors from the footy and impact on the ground's atmosphere.

I know engineering and architectural design is very inventive these days, but as the City and Hammers examples show, they had no desire to retain the running track in their football stadium.

Tricky one...

Geoff Williams
248 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:26:13
Can we have a carbon copy of the Allianz Arena, what a stadium, it would put everything in this country in the shade ....... Wembley included.
James Flynn
249 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:28:10
Moshiri bought 49.9% of shares to turn them over to Usmanov? Some area in Liverpool designated for a new Everton Park and Usmanov will invest in the venture? Sure, why not. Good, in fact. He's loaded.

But an Usmanov eventual takeover of EFC? Why would Moshiri do that?

As far as the "I know a guy, who heard . . ." comments. Usmanov mad about how Kroenke runs Arsenal is public news. We're all ITK. He wants to divest, so purchases another 15% of that club?

Ian Jones
250 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:33:03
Given the choice, if it took a couple more years to get by the river, I would be happy to wait.

What's the chances that the club would seek support from fans by asking fans what they would like?

I feel a TW poll on its way!

Damian Wilde
251 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:34:01
Good points, Jay. Yhey were discussing this on the radio the other day re: there being a running track at the hammers ground, will it impact upon atmosphere as the crowd will be further from the pitch? I love that Goodison is close to the pitch.

Sounds like Anderson wants it as a stadium anybody can use! Would it feel like ours?

Ian Jones
252 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:43:26
Jay. I will check but the report I read suggests that Joe Anderson thinks any new stadium could and not would be used in any Commonwealth games bid or other athletics events. Subtle difference. But appreciate your point. Would not be in favour of sharing events other than following the original Kings Dock plan which I think was to include a sliding pitch so concerts could take place.

In the words of BK. What a missed opportunity!

Better go check my facts now.

Brian Hennessy
253 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:46:02
I was optimistic yesterday with talk of a new stadium of our own near the waterfront but it looks more and more like this will be one of those lifeless multi-purpose things with a running track around it.. if it ever happens.

Eric Myles
254 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:57:40
If the city council want a running track at our stadium so they can host a Commonwealth Games and future athletic events then the council can pay for the retractable seating to make it possible.
Graham Mockford
255 Posted 17/05/2016 at 18:59:15
The Commonwealth Games is a bit of a red herring for me. It was announced during Anderson's recent mayoral campaign and should be treated with a little caution.

There is no requirement for a major athletics facility anywhere in the UK and certainly not in Liverpool. Both of the stadiums built in 2000 and 2012 have ultimately ended up being converted. There is no way we are waiting until 2026 for a City / West Ham type of deal.

Let's assume we could deliver something on either of the sites, it will be done on a commercial basis not as any sort of vanity scheme in my opinion.

Imagine if you car is goosed, literally on its last legs and you suddenly come into a little money. You've always wanted a Ferrari but it's going to take a big chunk of that money and fuck me the running costs are high which means you've got less money to spend on other things.

Ultimately I watch Everton because I want to see us win, I've got no problem with heading out to Croxteth if it makes financial sense. If I want to spend a day on the waterfront I will go for a meal with the other half.

Mike Doyle
256 Posted 17/05/2016 at 19:01:27
James [246] ... We are thinking along similar lines.
Beetles aside, Liverpool is recognised by the Liver Bird and the river. The other side have annexed the bird, so we should claim the other.
' The (insert sponsors name) Royal Blue Mersey Stadium' has a nice ring to it.
Martin Nicholls
257 Posted 17/05/2016 at 19:22:30
Damian (#242). No problem with a humorous "fuck off" if that's what it was. I can assure you that I am far from being PC – maybe I should have used the word "abusive" rather than the politically charged "offensive".

TW asks us to report abusive comments made by one ToffeeWebber to another and that's what I did – whoever looked at my report clearly agreed that the comment was abusive as it was removed.

As to attempting to belittle you, I am sorry if that was the way my comment came across – I quoted a common saying used as a generality. Clearly there are exceptions that prove the rule, eg, every cloud does NOT have a silver lining, the hokey cokey is NOT what it's all about! Whatever, shall we call it quits?

Kevin Rowlands
258 Posted 17/05/2016 at 19:26:25
JF 149, their business partners in several different ventures, the suggestion is that their next patnership venture will be Everton, they want complete control of the football club, something they never had and will never get at Arsenal.
Martin Mason
259 Posted 17/05/2016 at 19:48:04
Kevin, we need to check that they don't have offshore accounts or do any offshore borrowing to get preferential rates. Also they mustn't borrow money from "shady" business associates, just not the Everton way you know.

Do they know they're expected to share all of their business and financial planning with the fans I wonder?

Do they know they don't own the club but the fans do? I'm sure they'll do OK regardless :-)

Damian Wilde
260 Posted 17/05/2016 at 19:51:15
You reported Ste's comment, oh okay, I thought the mods deleted it automatically. It's up to you whether you report stuff, but joust away if you fancy, people often scrap on here :D

Yeah, no problem, let's move on.

Martin Nicholls
261 Posted 17/05/2016 at 19:51:39
Ste (#244). See my post #257 to Damian.

Re your specific points, firstly I saw my first match at Goodison Park in March 1963 (a 2-0 win against Nottm Forest) and have not only been (and currently am) a season ticket holder for more years than I can remember but have travelled over Europe supporting our Club and still go to about 40/50% of all away games.

I don't know how old you are, Ste, but if as I guess you are considerably younger than me, I hope you'll forgive me for using the time honoured phrase "I've (probably) been to more games than you've had hot dinners". Apologies if I'm wrong but as an aside, you've hit on something I've thought about for some time, that being exactly how many of our fellow ToffeeWebbers actually do go to the match? And consequently why it would bother some as to exactly where we do play?

Secondly, I did not SUGGEST a move to Wirral, merely put it up as a discussion point – that is why I thought a "fuck off" response was OTT. I am a born and bred scouser (to my shame, I went to same school as Billy Bullshit!) who now happens to live on The Wirral so I do not see the river to be as much of a barrier as some. I doubt, for example, that a Fulham, Chelsea etc fan would see the Thames as an insurmountable barrier should the prospect of a state-of-the-art stadium on it's other bank be a possibility. That said, I respect your view that a move is unacceptable – you clearly feel as strongly about a move "over the water" as I did about the proposed Kirkby move!

Anyway, we're both Evertonians so like I said to Damian, shall we call it quits? I drink in the Saddle before all home games – if you're ever passing, call in and have a pint with me as I suspect we've got more in common than is immediately apparent!

Roger Helm
263 Posted 17/05/2016 at 21:03:21
I have been to the Etihad and the Olympic Stadium (for a rugby international) and I would hate our club to be in such a soulless place.

A proper purpose built football stadium is what we need, and although Croxteth would be cheaper, surely a stadium nearer the city centre would generate much more income with bigger gates, concerts, events, conferences etc etc.

Kevin Rowlands
264 Posted 17/05/2016 at 23:40:13
Mm,whatever pal, you have your opinions, I have mine, no problem, see ya in the new stadium.

Laurie Hartley
265 Posted 17/05/2016 at 02:05:05
I love Goodison - so many happy memories from my youth in the army 60's to early 70's when I emigrated so I have always had a leaning to a revitalised Goodison Park.

However I am now warming to the idea of a new "Mersey Stadium - Home of Everton Football Club"

One of my fondest memories of my last visit to Birkenhead - the place of my birth, was standing on Bidston Hill at the Windmill with my brother Len looking across the river at "The Pool". It is a magnificent view.

I can just imagine our new blue stadium on the "royal Blue Mersey.

Position, position, position.

Isn't it great to be dreaming big again!?

Up the Blues!

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