Blues duo spared England's humiliation in Nice

Are Barkley and Stones doing enough in training to get a look-in? That is what I, as an Evertonian, am concerned about.

So many players so overrated.

And then there is Woy's England, with the energy and commitment of a Lukaku. the wage bill of the Saudi royal family, the leadership skills of a Jeremy Corbyn, and the on-field tactical skills of the French army at Agincourt,

We haven't gone backwards, we have just stood still, because we have got no discernible style.

And Hodgson says he won't go begging for a new contract! Insane.

It's got me thinking how many foreign young strikers have we had on our books that came with 'potential' only to leave and never be heard of again?

Hodgson is an idiot of a manager and gave fair warning of this kind of result with his faux pas over the Slovakia game. But the players too can't be absolved of blame; I'm just glad our boys are not going to be implicated in this debacle, thanks to Roy never deploying them.

And Stones not getting a game in front of an average Cahill? Still, they are international managers so probably know better than us fans.

I know there were several during the season statig that they would love him to return.

He's been done for years now.

He's finished. Can't believe some want him back here.

As for Hodgson, how the hell did he get the gig in the first place? He'll be utterly slaughtered in the morning papers.

And yet you would have to spend £20 million at least to buy one of them. Plus £100k a week.

Got exactly what they deserved.

I got a ban for suggesting that a couple of years ago. (Yep, I know).

I think MK has a framed photograph of 'Our Wayne' on his bedside table.

When is someone who really understands the game, going to rip it up and let us start from scratch again?

Two years ago, although Italy, beat England, they were a very poor team. Now they look like "THE ITALIANS" of old, because they have a certain style, which is probably learned from the minute they start to be coached.

It's the same with Germany, they have their own unique style, which will always get them results. Both these nations, are supremely confident, because they have great belief, which is given to them by their respective styles.

England have just been beaten by a very small nation, who played "The English WAY", whilst England just looked lost.

The biggest problem we have as a nation? From a very early age, we play to win, rather than playing to learn.

So let's play Brexit balls! See how many references to a completely irrelevant event you can crowbar in. Bonus points for imagining you are being witty and original.

Looking forward to 606......

Christ, you just can't make this up.

Take nothing away from Iceland. they played a superb tactical game and they showed a tenacity and belief In themselves not, forgetting more than a touch of skill. that made England look like cart horses in comparison and last but not least they damn well DESERVED to win, what made it sweeter for me was their royal Blue outfit,

"Time for someone else to take on this group of young, hungry players"

Encapsulates everything wrong with both Hodgson and English FA

So the fabulous London boys really stuck out tonight, Walker, Ali, Kane, Wiltshire and then there was Sturridge and Sterling.. Not a single one should have been in that team and we all know it.

Shameful.

Almost all the best players in the Premier League are foreign.We do make players of ability but no one in the same breath as Hazard and many other foreign players.It is no coincidence that all the clever players are foreign.Every top team has at least one foreign star who can control the ball, beat his man and pass accurately.For some mysterious reason we tend to over look this aspect of the English game.We do not have one player who can change the game using skill and top ball control.

We were beaten this evening by a side coming from a country with a population of less than a large town in Britain.Our club is crying out for a play maker and so is our National side.These players are lost at club level without a Mahrez, Hazard, Payet and Silva there to create the chances.

We need to coach skill into the youngsters...Wilshire is certainly not the answer and Rooney is running in treacle now.It is backward and square short passing at a very leisurely pace in front of opposing defences...keeping the ball but creating nothing.

Anyway it is back to the Premier League now and we can all relax and support Wales who although lacking in skill do show lots of endeavour.

By the way, I would not swap Jags for Cahill or Stones for that matter.Joe Hart wants to stick to his adverts, he is like a tailors dummy in goal.

I've watched some crap in England teams over the last 50 plus years and that has to go down as abysmal. Alan Ball, god bless him, would be furious at that so-called 'display' of Fight for your Country.

Let's hope that Ross gets some confidence from that experience oddly enough, even though it must have been very frustrating: he watched Alli, Wilshere and co. produce pure shite despite the media drivel; how wonderful it would be if he started to believe in himself and realise what a talent he has.

England need to start the same mindset, play youth, let them gel together, may not get to the final, but in time, that team will get better, get rid of the old farts, build for the future.

Imagine the fall back had Stones been so loosely marking his mam for the second goal, Hart wouldn't have been held accountable, Stones would have.

Imagine Ross was the number 10 throughout the tournament, never creating nothing, not scoring, just doing what Ali done, hed have been ridiculed.

Yet all the blame will be thrown onto Rooney, and yes he was poor, but how did Ali, Kane, Smalling, Cahill, Rose, Walker, Dier, Sturridge, do ?

The truth is, the team was unbalanced, the players lacked bottle and we were a total embarrassment.

Anyways all our prayers will soon be answered when Gareth Southgate is appointed.....

They're good enough in the other respects but they're mentally weak and crack under the pressure. They're also a bit thick.

No-one seems willing to admit that so nothing changes.

What you say now Gary , Rio !

England = no fight, no spirit, no bottle , no organisation, and that will always result in failure.
People like Lineker and Ferdinand are part of the problem.
Ferdinand is saying now tonight that England should have brushed aside all the teams they played in their group.
It's this England mentality that they are entitled to win , that they think they are better than they really are , that let's them down.
The commentator on bbc said when Iceland scored their second goal, "there's disbelief all around the ground amongst the England supporters and even the Iceland supporters"
How fucking insulting is that to Iceland.

When you have pundits like Lineker, Ferdinand and commentators who disrespect , you know why a lot of neutrals will always shout for whoever is playing England.

Well done Wales by the way !

I'm just glad neither Barkley nor Stones were involved in that shambles tonight. At least the press can't point the finger at them.

What I'd really love to know is how the he'll did Liverpool get nearly £50 million for that embarrassment, Sterling. I can't see one good thing he does. I actually cheered when Iceland got their second because them arrogant fuckers thought they just had to turn up and Iceland would roll over. Wrong. They were by far the better side and well deserved it.

I don't know about anyone else but I didn't think the result was in doubt once they went ahead. Ah well... looking forward to Peter Andre getting the most out of this young hungry talented squad. Nice one, Ian.

Stanley Rouse was president of FIFA at the time and that alone helped England enormously. Argentina were much Better tactically than England and had they had eleven players on the field when they played England they would have been victorious.

I am still waiting for the replay of the final versus Germany, it took nearly thirty years for the winner to be recognised as a legitimate goal and there was a supporter on the pitch when the fourth goal went in.

England, I'd rather have Liverpool as a team than England although I might have gone a bit too far with that!!!!!

But seriously, this team has been badly selected and badly managed from the start. Hopefully, Hodgson has resigned already.

Taking the game in to account, first bad decision was to include Sterling (clueless for sometime now). Second bad decision was to put on Wilshire (massively out of form) and to move Rooney to make way for him. Another point, why TF was Kane taking the long free kicks/crosses and corners (at times). Big guy, needed in the box......OMG. But many of the players appeared to be not wanting to put in for their country for much of the game. Where was the passion?

Clueless Clueless Clueless.

Well done Iceland!!!!

But seriously, this team has been badly selected and badly managed from the start. Hopefully, Hodgson has resigned already.

Taking the game in to account, first bad decision was to include Sterling (clueless for sometime now). Second bad decision was to put on Wilshire (massively out of form) and to move Rooney to make way for him. Another point, why TF was Kane taking the long free kicks/crosses and corners (at times). Big guy, needed in the box......OMG. But many of the players appeared to be not wanting to put in for their country for much of the game. Where was the passion?

Clueless Clueless Clueless.

Well done Iceland!!!!

The 2 CBs tonight were like robots and could not muster a decent pass forward between them.

How the hell did Alli, sterling, and Kane get to play in every game while Ross sat chewing gum.

Roy deserves the sack just for taking Wilshire a totally amateur decision

Witless.

You knew exactly what you were going to see before you saw it.

The whole thing was truly horrible and if that really is the best on offer, then we might as well all pack it in.

But enough about Bob Parrington's brexit gag, if I'm honest, I really enjoyed watching England (a nation of 60 million) get wellied by a handful of fishermen who live on an iceberg (particularly as none of our lads were stained by events on the pitch).

Maybe if England supporters sung songs that got behind the team rather than ditties about saving a luminous hat-wearing old lady, 'the lads' might feel more inspired.

Anyway not arsed, I only support one team and it's not England.

WHAT'S OUR NAME!!??

Roy also making the classic mistake of picking old favourites over form players and then trying to crowbar them into a formation which suited very few of them.

Sturridge isn't a wide player. Rooney isn't a midfielder. Sterling isn't a footballer. Wiltshire has just rolled off his hospital bed.

Absolutely clueless, pathetic and completely and utterly thoroughly deserved.

Then I hear it could be Gareth Southgate next.....

No words.

Let's look at the checklist:

- Definitely a figurehead, and a man most people would get behind.
- Knows the players and would have their complete respect.
- Knowledge of the game at the highest level.
- Relatively recent experience of the English game, European game and international game.
- Something of a statement of intent, in terms of appointing a manager other nations will recognise.
- Has worked under some of the best managers in the game during his career.

And of course the big negative:

- No managerial experience whatsoever.

The last point, I think, can be resolved by putting a good coaching team around him. This is not a club side so let the clubs focus on the player development and the day-to-day. The England team just needs to be motivated and given tactical instruction. Managers being appointed at international level without experience is not unprecedented - Klinsmann and Beckenbaur for example.

I wouldn't advocate Beckham if there was another credible candidate but none of them - Southgate, Pardew, Allardyce, Howe - tick as many boxes in my opinion.

I, as many England supporters on here, am gutted for the youngsters in the squad and also the many talented footballers Roy decided to leave behind, even though the likes of Jack Wilshere were nowhere near fit or good enough to wear an England shirt. I remember Roy saying he would pick players on form... Oh how hollow those words must sound in the corridors of the FA today.

As for what's wrong with English football, look at the amount of money spent at the top and the lack of support at grass-roots level. I hope Wales use the money we have earned and pump it into our system to stem the decline of our game.

COYB and let's hope Ronald sorts out Stones and keeps him at the club.

I am still laughing though, laughing at Gray and Souness arguing which is worse; Abject or Pathetic...when the answer is both.

Would hodgson have been appointed by Germany, Spain, Italy, Argentina ?

My Dad summed it up brilliantly, hodgson looks like one of the old buffoons in the upper offices of the FA. They appointed one in their own image.

So, for me, THAT is where the axe needs to fall and fall swiftly, but it won't because they are entirely free from any form of criticism or evaluation.

As to whether our lads were spared ?

No, they were exposed to hodgsons interminable drivel for weeks on end and not even seen fit as "last throw of the dice".

On the plus side ? RK gets his hands on them earlier to begin the repair work, so that's a plus.

Has anyone seen, in this tournament, a defence that would stop what used to be English football's best attacking option, combinations of wingers and centre forwards like Thomas & Latchford, Morrisey & Royle. Footballing central defenders are great so long as they can actually defend. I'd hate to think what a Nat Lofthouse would have done to most of today's defenders.

One reason perhaps is that these days more than ever top football needs mental sharpness and most English players seem a bit thick. When interviewed they seem a bit dopey, unlike foreigners, who generally speak better and more coherent English than they do. I have heard that an English dressing room is a pretty hostile place for anyone who is educated or well-spoken. So many kids never enter the sport in the first place.

Other reasons - the number of other sports to choose from, the downgrading of sport in schools, the selfishness and self-entitlement of the "me" generation, the over-regulation of children, the high proportion of foreign players in the EPL.

But many of these reasons apply to other countries as well. I don't know what the answer is.

How Sterling and Wiltshire earned second (and third) chances is beyond me.

Glad to see the back of Roy, should have resigned after the WC but put himself first.

Not one of those players should ever be allowed to pull on an England shirt again. They should forever have to live with that performance.

The English players that went to the Euros did not become poor players overnight. Harry Kane, for example, out scored Sergio Aguero, one of the best in the world, in the PL last season, in spite of getting off to a "slow" start to the campaign for Spurs. Dele Alli was perhaps the standout young player of the season, and Wayne Rooney's record for club and country speaks for itself.

So why is that English football teams have constantly failed so spectacularly at major football tournaments now for close to 20 years? (I'll give England a pass for making it to the Euro96 semis). Coaching/tactics is certainly part of the reason - the less said about Woy's performance at this tournament, the better - but to me that's too simplistic to lump all English coaches in the past two decades as varying shades of shite.

The English players constantly seem to be overburdened by a massive weight of expectation when on the big stage. They almost look scared, too tentative. Afraid of making any mistake. And, in a way, I can understand that. Being on the opposite side of the world I am constantly amazed at how, 1) the English media and tabloid press pre-tournament build up the hopes/expctations of the public, thereby heaping pressure on the players, and 2) the way the same media absolutely destroy and rip apart the players when they inevitably succumb to the pressure. It's of course even worse those days, with the advent of social media, thereby giving the sporting public an easier opportunity to absolutely crucify players for any mistake. Thank god we get to play Spurs first day of the season - I reckon Alli, Kane, Walker etc. will still be mentally fragile when game day rolls around.

Unrealistic expectations have been par for the course in the past two decades, remember the Beckham golden generation of the mid-2000's? I don't think I have ever seen a sports team as mentally fragile as the English football team. Take England's rugby team, for example - no pressure or expectation for their tour of Aussie, new coach, and the general consensus would be a series win for the Aussies. What happens? Unburdened, they give Oz a 3-0 shellacking. Of course, there are other teams who do rise to the pressure of expectation (being a Kiwi, I'll put the All Blacks in that category) but I don't think they live with the fear of getting a public battering if they lose. Our media in NZ generally are a far more accommodating bunch. There would be inquests, but the sporting public here wouldn't start burning effigies a la Beckham in 98.

Anyways, just my thoughts for what it's worth.

Dave, in addition to the points you make, the fixtures were also changed to allow England to play every game at Wembley which prevented the fans at Goodison getting the chance to see the national team first hand. We saw West Germany v Russia instead.Those were the days when I gave a toss about the national side,England, as opposed to London FC , which is how I view them now.

Having said that, I still cannot begin to understand why on earth you would start with Sterling, Sturridge and Kane when playing Iceland. Or why you would select only central midfielders. And these mistakes are the same kind of mistakes England is making over and over again at big tournaments. How often did England play Gerrard and Lampard together, two players who play in exactly the same position, who move in exactly the same ways? England has a history of selecting what are perceived to be the best individuals (based on biased media btw) and not selecting the strongest team.

I'm sure the pressure is just as tough on the European teams, my lack of a second language precludes me from reading the Continent's media haha. I didn't say Kane was a better striker than Aguero, merely highlighting the fact he outscored him, so hey, he can't be half-bad, can he.

In this tournament, as I mentioned, yep poor tactics / poor squad selection, I entirely agree with the majority of the points highlighted in this thread already. But what always astounds me is this mental fragility which infects the English football team whenever a major tournament comes around. Surely the FA must wonder how on earth a side who had a perfect record in Euro qualifying come unstuck against Iceland, for fecks sake?! And the warning signs were there after conceding the equaliser in the last minute to Russia. In fact, the warning signs have been around since France '98.

You do wonder if the English management take with them mental skills coaches for the players? Sounds all a bit fluffy I know, but having read a few sports biographies, a lot of top sportsmen credit them with turning around their performances on the big stage.

The centre halves looked so wooden, slowing us down from the off, so why not bring on Stones to bring it out allowing Rooney to push up field?
The inclusion of the Spuds lads despite their end of season dip was also a mistake, and to give them so much loyalty ,despite under performing in earlier games just shows that Woy is a softy, and just pampers these spoilt kids to think that they are better than they are.

After a similar Everton performance a furious Harry Catterick said, "I can't wait for the first of them to come knocking on my door seeking a wage increase!"

The England squad seemed unprepared for the game yesterday in every way. It is like nobody at England expected Iceland would play the way they did and I mean that tactically as well as mentally. But Iceland played exactly the same they did in the previous three games (and in qualification as well actually): they play on the break from a tight defence and they give everything they have.

Having said all that, the point I wanted to make is that I feel that apart from all these things, England just is not as good as they seem to think. I honestly do not think any player of last night's team would make the starting line-up of Spain – who are out of the tournament as well – or Germany or France.

There's no chance of government sorting it out, with all the cutbacks, but the Premier League could do so, given the vast amounts money in it. The coaching includes all aspects, including fitness against injury and mental toughness, which we lack.

We have the academies, but I don't think Premier League clubs treat them as seriously as they should, with too much reliance on foreign imports to meet short-term ends. On this note, I hope the new era at Everton, with all the money, fosters youngsters as much as it brings in experienced players.

"We isn't playing this crap and if we do scrape a win then we will have this cretinous manager up to the World Cup."

How he got the gig in the first place is amazing, failed Premier League manager at Liverpool, WBA and Fulham. Walking disaster.

Yes, sometimes they are asked to play in different systems, and sometimes played in unfamiliar positions which I cant understand. But I think the biggest concern is that the EPL by and large is a high tempo game. Yet everytime we turn up in a competition we don't play the way that our players are used too. Again last night the build up play was far too pedestrian (something us blues fans know only to well).

Successive England managers all want us to play a more possession-based game rather than the high tempo sometimes frenetic pace that most EPL games are played. So I hope the new manager whoever he is will adapt a more English style to our game.

Iceland, worthy winners: well organized and more of a goal threat on the break than Woy's Wankers with all their possession.

But hey, if I was a professional footballer earning £100,000 a week playing against a team coached by a part-time dentist, I'm not sure how seriously I would have taken the game either...

We should consider a Winter Break for the Premier League?

"I feel sorry for Roy because there were no other players he could have picked upon".

Err; you were playing Iceland and there was one player on the fucking bench who isn't a boozer, doesn't smoke and has played more than a half dozen games in the season. You left Drinkwater at home, along with Walcott and brought Sterling and Milner.

For god's sake, David Davies, a man who's experience was reading the North West news, was running the show until recently, how did that happen?

Anyone should throw their name in the hat, you couldn't do worse than the fools in power now. Stan Schofield's plans look as sane as anything our own FA comes up with.

Far too much reliance on Spurs wonder boys, who never delivered, and Hodgson had no idea at all what his best formation or starting 11 was.

My worry is not that Barkley and Stones will come back fresh, blameless, but as the Belgium manager, Wilmotts, said recently that any outfield squad player who has not been given any game time in a tournament, normally returns a shadow of the player he was.

Yeah, put Beckham in charge and we can laugh our bollocks off even more at the press conferences never mind the football team!

Imagine winning the tournament and never getting on the pitch... both are as bad. But the inept squad choice that saw unfit and out-of-form players chosen ahead of in-form (Drinkwater) is the reason it was never going to work. Is it not true that every single one of us was just waiting for the team to be defeated? Why? Because we all knew this was a poor squad and a poor manager who selected it.

Scorn for all? More so for all the pundits who praised selection and the form of those who frankly should never have been there. No Jagielka, Stones, Baines, Barkley, Lennon... anyone of them would have stood head and shoulders above the disgrace of Nice. Not one of them would have laid down and given in... not one.

As much as I despise Terry as a person, he is still better (even at his age) than Cahill or Smalling.

One last thing: Rooney had a shocker, but god forbid he ran himself into the ground going past a stationary Alli and time and time again. His legs had gone but his heart hadn't.

And how does Sterling even get near the national squad? A supposed left sided player with no left foot with Sturridge a right sided player with no right foot! You couldn't make it up.

I feel sorry for the Scots who would have at least given it a go – in fact Gibraltar would have tried harder. Not just an embarrassment for England, but an embarrassment the whole football world.

Congrats to Iceland – clever with talent, team, spirit and fight.

England again took their best players available not the best team available so they played disjointedly as a result.

The Icelandic coach has just been on the TV saying the secret of beating us was simple. The right men, in the right positions who knew what their roles were. Something that has been said by many on here many, many times. So drop the 'stars' and pick the team.

Why not study German, Italian and French football and see how they manage to win more often? Being a real team player brings success, whether it's applied to football,rugby, ice hockey or even as a member of the EU, although sadly the latter will no longer be the case.

"United we stand, divided we fall..."

That last sentence of yours is the solution in a nutshell but there is no appetite to solve it in the FA, the staff or the media.

The sum of a team beats the mercurial individuals more times than not.

He has had to watch the likes of Rooney, Milner, Alli, Henderson and Wilshere stink the gaff out in a position he would flourish in against sides who sit back and would be vulnerable against someone who could run with the ball and shoot from distance.

I've said it many a time – Hodgson has a dislike of Barkley.

And there it is! Quite simple, isn't it? Put the right players in their correct positions and play to a simple plan.

If he hadn't fell on his sword last night, he should have been sacked for letting Stirling anywhere near that starting XI. The Spurs players have shown that they are all bottlers, they came 3rd in a two-horse race.

Alli is young and learning but to me he is the same as Lukaku and very rarely controls the ball instantly and often doesn't look in full control of the ball.

Surprisingly, the only player who can lift his head high would be Lallana. He was the player of the tournament for England, unfortunately he made many pointless runs and was goosed by the 60th minute and his effectiveness was cancelled out with being knackered.

I'm glad our lads didn't get any minutes under this fuckwit of a manager, he would have probably put Barkley on the wing and Stones at left back.

To me it seemed that he was trying to justify taking so many forwards by putting them anywhere on the pitch.

Sturridge, as much as I hate him, is an instinctive finisher and will score more than he misses (granted he is a greedy so-and-so but every forward should be a little). Kane looked done and having him take free kicks and corners was just idiotic.

I felt sorry for Rooney, you have one of the country's highest scorers falling back into midfield at the twilight of his career, causing him to do more work on ageing legs. Put him up front and let him shoot.

It's all bollocks really and it will be again with the new man who will bow down to the FA and press again, and so it ever was!

It doesn't say much for Stones and Barkley either, does it, when they're deemed not good enough to be picked to play with that shower. 𧷤k - 𧴜k per week, don't make me laugh.

The media who have a vested interest, in attracting audiences for their TV and publications, bum up moderate players way above their ability, and we like to believe them. The presenters and pundits are all on the football gravy train, just like those Euro MPs, and us mugs fall for it.

Pete R. the same comment about Barkley was made by McNulty on the BBC today about how Woy showed a lack of trust in him but was wrong.

He could pick his favourite players from his beloved Aston Villa. Or was it West Ham? Oh hang on, it might have been Burnley.

It's not how good you are, it's who you play for. Jagielka is better than all three of them. That second goal would have been cleared by Jags.

It's about time we got the football fans choice instead of the likes of Greg Dyke, who was in charge of children's BBC TV not so long ago.

I'd go for Glenn Hoddle.

Des Walker 7 – to be honest, he has a good tournament take away his defending in the Iceland game he was one of our only threats going forward and was outstanding in the first two group games.

Danny Rose 6 – Leighton when fit and motivated is a much better player. However Danny Rose was okay without being anything really special.

Gary Cahill 6 – Did okay in the tournament without setting the world on fire. He was adequate at best I suppose but did not disgrace himself. One feels that Stones will certainly replace him or Smalling. (Under Ronny K's influence, he will be a solid England player for a decade at least.)

Chris Smalling 6 – Same as Cahill

Eric Dier 8 – was probably our Player of the Tournament and had we drawn a more coveted team in the last 16 he would have played a vital role covering in front of our less than convincing defense. Will be a very important player for England for years to come.

Wayne Rooney 5 – Was really good in the first two games.. in fact, he was England's answer to Andrea Pirlo or is that going too far? However he was so shite poor against Iceland that the 'Pirlo' comparisons have resulted in me being subjected to a A&OD test to determine my current presence of mind! He will play in the next World Cup simply because we having nothing better.

Dele Alli 4 – failed to live up to all of the hype, I am afraid. Provided a few very fleeting glimpses of his potential. He was clearly favored by Roy Plodson over our Ross who never got a look-in.

Raheem Stirling 3 – really only confirmed his status as one of England's most overrated players; wasn't as bad as the pundits made out but was pretty bloody ordinary just the same. Really satisfying to see Man Shity paid all that money for him.

Adam Lallana 5 – actually did okay without being anything really special in the group games. Hopefully a more penetrative option can be found in the run in to the next World Cup.

Harry Kane 2 – an absolute diabolical tournament... rank ordinary, why he was continuously permitted to take free kicks and corners begs belief. It really got to the embarrassing stage during the second half of the Iceland game. He lacked any hint of sharpness, I'm afraid; he is not our long term solution for the striker role.

Jamie Vardy 5 – Clearly not a Plodson favorite and I guess when called upon was no better or worse than anyone else, actually he was better than Kane but who wasn't!

Daniel Sturridge 5 – provided some nice touches but, like the rest of our much overrated lot, he flattered to deceive for the most part.

James Milner – 2 who??????????????

Marcus Rashford – 6 I have to agree with Alan Shearer, he did more in just 4 minutes than most of the rest of them managed in the entire game... in three games were Kane is concerned!

Barkley & Stones – 9. However they actually managed not to be part of this historic football disaster has to be admired. Amongst a very small group of England players who have a legitimate claim to maintain their current patchy at best reputations.

Nathaniel Clyne & Ryan Bertran 6 – both did ok against Slovakia and fortunately for them played no further part in this absolute debacle!

Roy Plodson – graduated with honors from Steve McClaren's football coaching school of pathetic nous. Maintained the sideline body language of a nervous nosy old lady neighbour peeking through the curtains at the impending disaster unfolding in the street outside his rickety old house! Although the 3 million odd pounds a season he managed to steal each season from the FA, he will no doubt fund a much sturdier villa in the south of Spain.

Gary Neville - let's not go there!

Betting on Plodson's replacement: Shearer 500/1 simply because he would have the respect of our squad of prima donnas and would probably do a decent job.

Me 200/1 simply because I couldn't do any worse than Plodson, Fabio, McClaren, etc.

David Moyes 5/1 simply because he needs a job and he would be cheap!

Hot Favourite 2/1 Roberto Martinez you couldn't really go past him could you? Although judging the performance of England yesterday one feels he already has the job and actually designed the tactics used against Iceland.

Frustrated.

I read a comment last night which really stood out for me - make the next England squad up from players from the Championship & lower Leagues - at least they would put the required effort in.

We have a toxic mixture of multi-millionaires who are feted by the press every week in the Premier League. I doubt they are really that bothered when they go on England duty. There first loyalty is to their club sides - you don't see many players getting injured on international duty these days, the English players would much rather have Premier League glory.

It's been a bloody long day over here in Aus after getting up early to watch England shit in their own pants this morning.

Although Des would probably still hold his own with this present company of prima donnas...

A volcanic ice-covered island isolated in the harsh north Atlantic with the population of Coventry, 330,000, a genuine minnow in world football terms, comfortably toppled a so-called colossus of the game.

They didn't have to do or be anything special to achieve their win.

They were focused, not hyper (like Hart).

They were disciplined, not manic.

Each player was selected on merit, regardless of if he plays club football in a 'minor' league, as opposed to England's squad selection being made on reputation rather than current form and certainly not fitness.

There was continuity in their team selection and playing style from qualification to tournament, as opposed to a seismic shift in the same by Hodgson on arrival in France.

Each played in a role to which he was best suited, rather than selecting 'names' and shoehorning them into ill-suited roles.

They had a physicality and fitness England could not match.

Unless and until the English FA seriously address the issue of kids' football as other nations have done as far back as 20-30 years ago, it will continue to be 'rinse and repeat' for the national side at tournament football.

Good analysis of why the Icelanders (and most other teams) have the advantage over England.

Just one correction. Contrary to the impression given by the name, Iceland isn't covered in ice – that's Greenland which is also confusingly named!

It will be interesting to see how far Wales get. Sure they are a one-man team but Bale helps his team mates raise their game unlike Ronaldo who just wants everyone else to serve him. The concept of it being a team game is something which England would do well to think about.

Most of the England players appear to work on the basis that there is no urgency and their 'skill' will get them through as it does at club level where there is usually a foreign player to bail them out.

I agree with others, I have never seen Rooney play as badly. In fact I didn't believe that he could play that badly!

As England's rugby team will testify, get the right man... success may follow.

80% Championship,
15% League One,
5% League Two...

This the way to go from now on... but sadly it will NEVER happen, so 50 more years of nothing to come methinks!!!.

At least the REAL footy will be starting soon... OH YES!!!.

You don't need Championship players - you'll get my club, the USA, full of effort and not enough skill. The English fan would greatly appreciate watching this I believe on the whole, but you'd never get far in any tournament - at least not as far as the English would like.

All you fine folks need is a brave manager who chooses the proper side.

- the game was screaming out for a player like Barkley who would run at their defense, causing them to collapse to the ball, and freeing up other players

- Wilshere was a joke. He should have never even been selected

- Rashford changed the game in the 4 minutes he was on the pitch - problem is your coach put him out there for 4 minutes

- Sterling is the worst, most overrated player on earth and shouldn't have made the team. Again over to Roy...

- Vardy should have been on the pitch that game running the channels and stretching their defense

- Lalana (sp?) and Henderson you're having a laugh...

Roy chose these players / didn't choose the above and England suffered for it.

The issue is the coaching, selection, and tactics.

And the most important final issue, as you actually HAVE the talent contrary to what some may believe, is that you have no PASSION. It's disgusting to watch to be honest. You need a coach who instills that passion for country. Roy just doesn't do that.

Were I England I'd name a very young, English coach. Let him make selections based not only on talent but EFFORT (see Vardy, he should have started every single game). Let the new young coach learn, lose, keep the intensity level up, go with the younger kids and a mix of a veteran or two who keep it all together, and the sky is the limit in 2018 at Russia.

But England won't do that... it's tragic.

Watch... they'll appoint some foreign manager who's 50 plus years old who can't motivate this team and who will select players based on reputation - most of which won't put in the blood and guts effort you need in international football.

Players you need are in the English system. You need a gutsy manager who will actually leave the overpaid, average names at home and chooses the proper side who will go out there and play.... like Iceland.

Football is a simple game but successive England managers just make it so hard by picking from the top NAMED clubs and not the clubs where players are in-form.

These guys are professionals and the basic skills are their job FFS. I can accept that some have better control than others but why do all our best foreign players have better basic skills than ours do.

If we want a so-called big signing, we will need to look abroad. We have been crying out for a midfield playmaker but we do not seem to be able to bring one through from our kids. The nearest we have ever had from our academy is Leon Osman and no-one since.

Then negotiating fees for children's education. And somehow they have to deal with the holidays that have to be arranged of course.

There are some who need baldness treatments, others have addictions and therapy takes time. Others have girlfriends that need "modifying". God, the list just goes on. Imagine after all that there is the latest car to be decided upon and then bought.

And security. That must take ages. House alarms? Bodyguards ? And they have to be seen in celeb bars and restaurants.

Tough and so exhausting, Helen. Surprised they can even play at all. Have some sympathy!

Evenings, there were loads of kids, coaches and balls, starting with a warm-up, then skills practicing of passing, controlling and dribbling, then small 5- or 6-a-side games, in groups streamed for size and ability. It was all fun, with no pressure. It helped of course that evenings were the perfect temperature.

Is this what English kids get?

Also issues with language and lack of respect to the referees and opponents.

Was this a lucky break for Everton in its timing as Koeman was sure to be on the wanted list as the next England manager if we had not done our business quickly after the end of last season.

Our new investment has just paid its first dividend in allowing us to react so quickly.

The teams are streamed for ability (the local FA have little leagues of different standards, but the results are not recorded so no-one can get upset about winning/losing). The age groups play different sizes: U5-U8 is 5-a-side, then U9-U10 is 7-a-side, U11-U12 is 9-a-side, then full teams from U13 upwards.

Players with real individual skill stand out in any system, regardless. Okay, you might not get the most out of them but you can still see their ability to beat an opponent and find a telling pass.

How many of our players are wanted by foreign clubs? Stones is reputably one, but I confess they must be seeing something I can't yet see.

My old man used to say he remembered the great Stanley Matthews saying not getting picked for the 1950 loss to USA added 10 years to his career!

Wilshere being taken to that tournament and actually being allowed to contaminate the pitch makes Hodgson worse in, my view, than Martinez. I can offer no greater insult.

Endless passing across the back, laboured build-up and useless set pieces had me turning off before full-time in two of the games. And then Hodgson's insistence that only lack of goals had blighted magnificent performances got me raging at the telly. Oh how I hope Koeman never comes out with that shite next season!

How can these conditions help bring out any skill in young players? I have watched 8- & 9-year-olds playing in these conditions for years, and no prizes for guessing who the best player on the pitch is in the mud?

All kids football up until senior school should be played in the summer. Start it on April 1st, because the fools should have done this fucking years ago.

Make football enjoyable for the kids and less of a chore for the parents, who get home from footy in winter and then have to take the car right round to the valets!

We sold our souls years ago, we traded measured football for crash, bang, wallop excitement. The Premier League is the most watched league because it's the most exciting, not because it's the best.

We all subscribe to Sky and are therefore every bit as guilty as the managers and the players for the steady stream of shite England teams.

We reward players before they have done anything, remove their hunger by paying them obscene wages when they're barely out of their teens... then scratch our heads when they are seen making shampoo adverts as a bigger deal than playing for England.

Come to think of it... it probably is!

However, if you're going to lose, lose to a team whose Manager is called Lagerback, that's cool.

Good luck, Iceland, you showed what hard work can do.

However, will they give any of their fees to charity when they sell the inside story to the rags and Roy Hodgsonhas his memoirs serialised in The Times? Maybe a few "taking the piss" adverts for Iceland thrown in as well... They'll be feeling the hurt all the way to the bank.

I just feel sorry for the supporters who travel all over with the team through thick and thin and will turn out again next season. They take all the flak from our own media if there's any sign of trouble and have to put up with what we saw last night. It would be nice if they sent a few bob to the England Supporters Club.

How the fuck can a manager with so much talent as his disposal (not crocks like Wilshere, etc) screw up a team? Well Martinez did it all last two seasons, playing his favourites and just not a clue about formations to suit who he has on the pitch.

Even if we had got Iceland there is now way we'd have beaten the French and that would have been worse!!

Let's see which no-mark they get to take over, I see Moyes has been mentioned in some papers, OMG!!!

Glad our two didn't play otherwise it could have affected them. As it is there is no shame in Stones and Ross coming back, they can hold their heads high and reflect on a lucky escape. Now they should get their heads down and concentrate on their Everton careers.

I thought the celebrations by the Welsh team, as revealed on candid camera, was a bit OTT but there again you cannot hide what is in your heart. Cymru am Byth, COYB

The media got him the sack because of a few crack pot remarks that never had anything to do with his ability to do his job as a football manager.

After the World Cup two years ago, Hodgson, said that England, had played like the winners Germany, at times during the competition? This should have told everyone the man was not good enough to do the job based on his footballing views? (England were fucking awful.)

The fact that he kept his job is down to the top people in The FA, who don't have a clue about anything other than themselves and money.

Look at last night; as somebody said earlier, does anyone seriously believe Hodgson went into the changing room after the match, sat down with the players, and got out a pen and some paper to write out his resignation letter to the nation?

Hodgson said that he would keep faith with the players that secured qualification, then said he would pick players on form. Then he totally bottled that and picked players that have big reputations. Sterling, Wilshere, Sturridge and Henderson all had seasons that were hugely interrupted by injury; Rooney has been relying on former glories for the last 3 years. Unfashionable though they may be, players like Mark Noble, Danny Drinkwater, Andros Townsend, Jermaine Defoe, Marc Albrighton - even Michael Antonio - all finished the season in great form, but were never going to be picked over players from more fashionable clubs.

We've been seeing the same problems since 2010. Our big name players shrink on the big stage.

Certainly they have a language of their own in which their assumed superior knowledge enables them to 'speak in tongues' whilst making it clear that 'the boy Stones' is going nowhere and everything is for the good of 'the football club' (rather than the netball one, I guess !)

Most of them are, in fact, frustrated players who were always too perceptive to do their God-given talent justice and thus, owe it to us and their charges to inflict their philosophies and projects on any club they deem worthy of receiving them.

In truth, of course, most are phonies who soon get sussed by their gullible employers and are then forced to move on to relieve another mug-millionare of his ill-gotten gains !

I honestly believe that self excepted, many contributors to this forum could do just as good a job. Well, at least, we'd be able to understand what they were on about !

I shouldn't really say it, about one so young, but the way young Tom Davies, played midfield, in the two games at the end of last season, was really, really exciting. All the best midfielders have a great engine, one that purs, and doesn't go Sshhhu!

Ross doesn't lack for conception of options, he suffers from hesitation in executing them and that is because like a lot of gifted people he seems to have fragile confidence. I hope and expect that Koeman will put it right.

The footballing "brain" that was so impressive that in 12 years he played a total of ONLY 250 games for 12 different clubs and played for his country a massive3 times - nuff said - brains of a feckin' rocking horse

The pundits said the reason for playing Stirling was to go down the sides and put pressure on their full backs. Did he do it. No.

Roy waited till the 85 minute to change it and bring someone on to have a go down the sides. Iceland were frightened of Rashford. OK, he lost the ball a few times, but almost created something.

If you are going out. Then blaze of glory for me. And that was leave Dier on to protect the defence. Rashford, Vardy, Barclay on. Tell them to keep running at their back line with the ball. If they lose it, get it back and go again. We would have at least got free kicks closer to their 18 yard box, instead of the 41m out one that it showed on the last one Kane took.

And how the hell he got to take that after the numerous ones he had missed, I will never know.

His exact response when I asked whether he'd be up for an England return was "the FA don't have the balls". A particular gem was "credit to Iceland but it's fucking Iceland"

"Surprised he's went there" was the grammatically troubling verdict on Koeman so of course I took the trouble to educate the lad on life north of Watford. Like others such as Wilkins he doesn't quite get it, which is a shame given his public profile on a terrestrial channel.

Is a huge Stones fan for what it's worth, "a great player in the right hands" and even rated Roberto by the sounds of it. Seemed genuinely upset at his unraveling.

That concludes the Glenn Hoddle dossier.

To be fair, Hodgson was let down by some players who had great a great season but failed to deliver in the Euros such as Kane and Alli. Having said that, it's very unlikely they would have had much success even if they had gotten past Iceland. They struggled offensively against all three group opponents and only a last-minute goal beat the Welsh.

Vardy's success was a one-off with Leicester and I think next season will be very tough for him to shine. Wilshere should never have been picked to go given his lack of action last season, yet another clanger by Hodgson. The central defenders slipped up badly against Iceland and I for one am glad Stonesy wasn't playing.

Barkley should have gotten some playing time, at least in the Slovakia game but only Hodgson knows why he and Stones never got a kick in four games. It's done and dusted for England now so let's hope the powers to be take some time to get the right man for the job of readying them for the World cup. In the meantime, let's cheer for Wales.

"Er. Is something being missed here? Isn't it the "media" that selects the England team? Or have things changed?

If it is still the media that selects the team, maybe the media should be put on trial by, what else....but the media!!!!??? Come to think of it, was it the media that selected Hodgson???

(for the other oldies of us -– replace "media" with "press" and it is the same old sad story from generations past!)"

No chance ??? ... 50 more years of failure to come then!!!

Don't get me wrong, Hodgson did an appalling job and yes England should be good enough to beat Iceland, but It is no wonder some people outside England take such pleasure when England get knocked out (such as the Welsh team in that video), when the British media continue to over hype what is a quite average group of players.

A bit of realism from the media and the public about the real standard of English football would be a good startling point after this latest exit from a tournament.

As for the search for a new manager, I have heard numerous calls today that England need a "winner" someone who has "won trophies" – utter rubbish. What England need is a manager who has proven ability to get the best out of a limited group of players – someone who has done this at a club with little or no money to spend.

I would liken England to a club team in the bottom half of the Premier League who are looking to avoid relegation and maybe in the perfect world qualify for the Europa League.

Just like us here in ROI, and NI, England have no world class players. Wales do have one and he has taken them to the quarter-finals.

England's play reminded me so much of us under Martinez. Trying to play a passing game in the hope that they can turn out like Spain or Italy. It's not going to happen because the English players are not good enough, just like our Irish players are not good enough but our managers acknowledge this and play to our strengths with a style based first and foremost on hard work and commitment – something badly lacking from this England team.

My response is simply that the so-called first choice midfielders Hodgson picked to play didn't exactly show much 'footballing brain' did they? Constantly trying the same things and constantly failing, slowing the game down to suit Iceland perfectly and an inability to try something different and intuitive, precisely the things Barclay is good at but qualities not recognised or utilised by Hodgson who should never have been England manager in the first place.

What international manager in his right mind takes a player who has only played one game all season to a major championships? Nuff said, Hodgson is gone, lots of reputations ruined, (or will they be forgiven by the new manager?), but Barclay and Stones at least return untarnished by the entire debacle. New season can't start soon enough for me.

Surely rather than running out every Tom Dick or Harry Kane who has a decent couple of months an international manager should decide on his team, then decide on his squad and anyone in that team should only be replaced by a player who is better for the team.

Everything depended on beating Iceland.... how many times had those eleven players who wore the England shirt played together?

Brian 224, explained in a nutshell, and this is also the reason why things won't really improve. How can we get realism, when you have commentators, talking about England's, embarrassment of options?

Didn't Cappelo, tell the FA, that we are light years behind, especially when it comes to absorbing, and taking things on board, tactically.

The English rugby team have consistently been among the top 3/4/5 in the world for decades - went through a short bad spell under their previous manager and are now performing as they should be again.

The English football team are not near the top 10 in the world with a dreadful record in major tournaments in all but one in the last 100 years.

No football manager on this planet is going to achieve the same level of success that your Rugby team will.

As I have said elsewhere our players fail in every tournament because they as individuals are not up to the job requirements. No-one should make excuses for them, we have witnessed the same shortcomings for the last 50 years!

The frustrating part is that we have seen no improvement in our players in all that time! Its always the same old story, just not good enough. The media bum them up because it suits their purposes to do so.

As far as Ross is concerned, I think he is failing himself because he is afraid of failure. He needs to put himself about much more and go for it, if it doesn't work at least he tried. The way he is inhibiting himself, he is shooting himself in the foot.

Go for it, lad, that's what everyone wants.

The 11 players on the field against Iceland looked terrified in the second half with the realization that they would be vilified the following day.

England are still paying the price for the way Stuart Pearce, Chris Waddle and David Beckham were treated by the English media for what happened in previous tournaments.

ROI, NI and Welsh players don't have this fear; every time they take to the pitch for their country, what they have is the goodwill and support of their fans as long as they give 100%.

The press have jumped all over this because nobody wants to really criticise what you said in your initial post. We just aren't good enough, and until people put their hand up and really accept this, then I don't think much will change.

I have heard a top member of the FA on Sky today saying we are improving at the lower age groups, citing the Under-21s recently winning a tournament in Toulouse, but until we stick on a style, and get every age group playing the same way, how can things really change?

This might not be the best Italian team of all time but the style of play which is ingrained into their culture is something they all understand.

And that was just for the pleasure without pay. :)

He has proven that he can get something from nothing with Hibs. And nobody knows football more than a scouser.

Either one of them will bring back the World Cup back to England.

Nobody knows football more than a scouser.

Collymore dismisses Ross as a liability – shouldn't he have directed that remark at those who actually played and showed themselves to be such? e.g. Hart, Sterling, Alli, Henderson etc – the list goes on.

England do have the players to do well at tournaments but they never get picked because for decades the same big NAMED teams have a monopoly. Andy Carroll, Drinkwater, Townsend, Noble, Creswell, Jagielka all should have gone in place of Sterling, Henderson, Barkley, Wilshere, Sturridge & Milner. But that would not have been PC... it really annoys me.

The worst pundit is that fella (god, I hate how he says it) Ray Wilkins... he spouts some crap.

I just think when you compare ours with even some of the so-called minnows their players are more technically adept then ours. They're lacking in so many other areas too IMHO.

When will we learn that English players are overrated, overawed, overpaid, and overprotected. In reality almost all of them are bog standard. Whenever we talk about skillful players nobody mentions any English players. It's always foreign ones.

The fact is English players are made to look good by the foreign players surrounding them. But in reality they are the workers in the top clubs. The fetchers and carriers and you can't build a top class international side out of grafters alone. You need skill, craft, vision, and poise. These are things English players simply don't possess. Yet we are constantly told that Kane, Sterling, Wilshere, Sturridge, Barkley et al are top class players without any acknowledgment to the skillful foreign players supporting them.

It would take a massive change in thinking in the way we develop young players in this country to produce top class skillful players and, since we haven't done anything about it for the last 50 years, I doubt we'll do anything about it now.

Probably the best post I've seen on here or anywhere else regarding the failings of English football.

Brilliant, well said.

With influx of foreign players in 90s and getting "worse" every year we still had players which would grace all the top teams, Rooney , Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Shearer, Cole, Scholes and in my view best player of the lot Gazza.

You can't win every tournament but Bobby Robson did ok, Venables ok, I even thought Hoddle had a good team and unlucky not to get further and could be argued Sven unlucky (personally I think we woefully under performed with him).

Keegan, McClaren not good enough and Capello I have no idea why so bad in South Africa was it? Now hodgson, Roy Hodgson with his prepared resignation letter - what a complete and utter joke to appoint him in the first place.

The players you mention we are told world class - I don't think we are told that. I don't read papers much but you would have to be an idiot to believe thy any of the aforementioned would get in the top sides. I actually believe Stones would and perhaps Ali and Kane have potential, maybe even Barkley although I'm not sure. England have a very poor side and in my view an even poorer management.

Football is littered with great managers making average / good teams great - Clough with Forest, ferguson with Aberdeen, Ranieri with Leicester. On international stage, Germany and Italy invariably punch above their weight and other examples are obviously Denmark and Greece.

As I say I think England's CURRENT group are poor but I haven't really seen them bigged up and previous decades I would say we have had top top players. A missing ingredient on the international stage is bottle and mentality - obvious from our performances in penalty shoot outs!

Barkley's got more skill than many overrated foreigners. It's not his fault the game in this country is run by and for the benefit of fools.

Neville, the Sky expert who was able to sort out every team's problems in the Premier League on a Monday night (even long throws). Then the guy in the press conference who will be involved picking the next manager: "I'm not a football person".

Now talk of a mid-season break to address the problem. The majority don't get a regular game anyway because they are not good enough. How many of these players would be picked if they played for the likes of Stoke or WBA? (No disrespect to them.)

A manager and his team earn their corn when up against it – not sitting on the bench with your head in your hands. Get someone in who can handle the pressure and the media – and that goes for the players.

The days of picking names and not footballers has got to end. Pick your team stand by it. No such thing as a friendlies in internationals – proud to play because you've worked hard to get there. Fit the pieces in the jigsaw, no square pegs in round holes; best player in that position.

The only stats the we should be concerned with is we've scored more goals than them. The game is simple – don't complicate it. No more Fantasy Football, please!