Arl Arses: Assemble

Dave Watson's family lived in Boundary Street (over the bridge). A few days after winning the cup in 1995, we were told he was out in the street talking to all the neighbours. He was asked what it was like to win the cup and to everyone's astonishment he suddenly produced the trophy and allowed all present to get their photos – imagine that happening today?

I do remember he did struggle to win the fans over to begin with, He was RS, he was taking over from the ever popular Deggsy, and if truth be told, he was gash.
A strong character though, he soon found his form and became a bit of a cult hero for his no-nonsense approach to defending. A hard man and a born leader.

I remember celebrating the return of Howard Kendall as if it was yesterday. Like most others, I just assumed the good times were back. I don't think I realised it at the time, but his time had come and gone.

Loved these guys

Sounds like an interesting project, John!

I'd echo Darren re Watson but would add that Deggsy was not only a blue but a cult hero after his goalscoring exploits and with Dave being a red he was up against it. Add in that Van den Hauwe had played at centre-back when Deggsy was injured and was looking world class alongside Ratters and Watson was really up against it costing what was a club record fee I think?

He struggled for form at first, a bit like Lineker did, and he was not a cultured player by any means which didn't look too good alongside the hefty fee. However, he had guts like few others and won us all over with courage and grit, always prepared to get hurt in order to help the team.

Billy Kenny – I recall one game when he absolutely dictated play all game at 18 years old! He had awareness, skill, vision and a sidestep to die for – the biggest waste of talent I have ever seen since Alan Whittle.

Howard Kendall, Mk 2 was a strange one. Everyone rejoiced when it was announced as Harvey had tried hard but was unfortunate to be in place while the great team was fragmenting. He had made the same mistake as we made at the start of this season- Cottee was valued at 𧾦k at the close season but Arsenal were after him and the price went up to ٠.2m which was a waste because it was McAvennie who was the better player at the time. Nevis cost 𨀼k at tribunal and was worth maybe 𧺬k. Others were bought at excessive prices and had no affinity to the club. When Howard returned he had a few of the great side still there who were on their way down and a number of pretty ordinary players who weren't Everton players and did not care about the club.

I don't know if Howard himself was in decline at that point but the money had gone mainly and he wasted ٟ.5m on Johnston who was shot by that time – similarities again to today and the money we have blown on Rooney. He sold the best players we had in Keown and McCall to raise cash and tried to replicate what he had done first time around but didn't have the quality of player or person and lacked a Reid or Gray to sort out the dressing room.

I had my doubts as soon as Harvey walked into the press conference to be introduced as the assistant manager. There was just an air of desperation about it to me – managers don't work out in a second spell at a club – well, not often anyway – and I couldn't see how Harvey would have the respect of anyone at the club having been No 1, sacked as not good enough then returning as No 2 to work with the same players but no longer the boss. To me it was doomed from that point- Howard should have brought in Reid or Gray or whoever, not the sacked manager.

Good luck, John – I'd be interested to know what the project is!

Billy Kenny was an amazingly gifted young player. You have to have the application to go with it, even in those days. He didn't. Such a shame and a waste.

Regarding Howard, back in 1980s, a mate of mine ran the Post Office in Formby. Apparently everyone there regularly saw his 'refuelling', which had clearly got worse when he came back the second and third times. We'd lost our momentum, and clearly his methods and judgement weren't what they were. I met one journalist who said they'd all known he had 'issues', but was so popular nothing was said.

I don't blame Howard for coming back, I blame the club for lazy, slipshod, sentimental recruitment. If I ever see an Everton manager half as good as Howard, I'll be very happy.

Dave,

Still grates on me even now that we sold Martin Keown, he was too important to sell and had his best days in front of him. Players like him are the foundations, the bedrock of a winning team.

Only Mike Lyons runs Watson close in the bravery stakes. A proper club captain, he played hundreds of games for us and was more effective when our glory days had passed.

'Gash' is an insult; regardless of who he supported, he would run through brick walls for the Blues. Oh and a goal to knock the Red Shite out of the FA Cup and finish Dalglish's managerial career at Anfield is good enough for me.

Ah, Billy Kenny, in his post-Everton days... I watched him get sent off/walked off arguing with the ref down the Pitz 5 a-side. Surreal seeing a derby non-performer playing down there on a Wednesday night.

Paul. (3), It was wasn't lazy, slipshod, sentimental recruitment, it was criminal, it was common knowledge that Howard had an illness.

Phil McNulty told me he was coming back, telling me "You won't be pleased when you learn who is the new manager". When I went on Radio Merseyside that night to protest at him coming back, they warned me before we went on the air " Don't mention his drinking"

So they must have known at the club about his problem but still went ahead and appointed him, Howard was in fit position to manage a non league club never mind a top flight one. What a terrible risk the management took with that appointment, disgraceful.

Dave (#7),

Was that Howard's 1990 return from Man City, or his 1997 3rd stint from Sheffield Utd?

Just interested because I wasn't really aware of his illness until the late 90s; as you say, it was criminal for the board to bring him back when he clearly had issues. If it was the return in 1997, it stinks of Kenwright.

I think McNulty was around the Echo in ‘97 rather than ‘90.

I didn't say he was a non-performer, I said in the derby, he was Man of the Match! One of them anyway.

Kenny was the real deal talent-wise. Unfortunately, his head wasn't. To play like he did in a derby at 18, against Souness et al, was unbelievable. The biggest waste of talent I have ever seen wear the Royal Blue jersey.

My oppos in work asked me once to give them a best EFC XI. When I mentioned Kenny, they all said, "Who the hell is he?" Such a shame. He should have been a household name and an England International with 100 caps to his name. Maybe if parallel universes do exist, there's one where he did succeed.

Billy Kenny would have developed into a very good player, no doubt about that; he had everything you need apart from lacking top pace. An unbelievable performance in the derby mentioned above for an 18-year-old kid.

Unfortunately, he did not have the strength of mind to get his head down and be that top player. So headstrong that even strong characters like his father Bilbo and his Uncle Eddie could not keep him targeted.

One of the great misses that this lad didn't go on to be an Everton great.

Watson did take time settling in but I remember him outmuscling an ageing Cyril Regis one day and not many people did that. Great leader and, right now, exactly what this club could do with.

When we talk about poor decision-making at the top, well the board knew Howard Kendall was having problems and should have been helping him with it instead of putting him back in the hot seat. I still can't get my head around him leaving us in the first place, regardless of the Barcelona rumours.

Billy Kenny was only one of a few youngsters who were lost to the temptation of drink and drugs. Buddy Coyle was even better, in my opinion, but we are very vulnerable at that age with money in our pockets. Both of them could have been superstars.

I remember when Gary Speed had had enough and was leaving, that he said, “If the fans knew what was going on, they'd be disgusted.” I didn't know what he meant for a while till it came out about Howard's drinking. Great manager first time and great guy though.

Clive (13), where did you hear or read Gary Speed say those remarks?

I never heard him say or read anything he said that referred to the time he left Everton, even when he was getting booed every time he appeared at Goodison for an opposing team, – getting booed although he was the victim.

Dave, I can't remember exactly as it is so long ago. But I remember it being in the press distinctly.

"Kendall's return for a second managerial spell. What was the mood like at the time it was announced?"

I remember, for the first time in about 8 years, that we were either in the bottom 3 or rooted to the bottom when he arrived. We were really struggling and performances were really poor.

You also need to remember that he arrived on the back of guiding Man City to some very good results, including a 5-1 demolition of Man Utd, which was a shock to all.

I had no clue of his personal issues. It seemed to me as if Colin Harvey's race was run, and we had sold so many good players and not really bought that well that we needed a lift. Also, there was the prospect of him perhaps tempting one or two of City's better players to join us – Paul Lake was a very good prospect whose career was cruelly cut short by injury.

The line he used "City was a love affair, Everton a marriage" was symbolic of what the club meant to him, and what he meant to the club.

There was also the prospect of English clubs returning to Europe at the time, so there was perhaps an element of unfinished business. I was hoping to see him stabilise us, build us back up, pick up a couple of trophies on the way, and put us back on the European map.

"Was it widely presumed he could walk in and pick up where he left off?"

I don't know what people felt widely but, having seen him do a reasonable job at Bilbao and a good job at City, I felt he was a very good manager who could rebuild us. I knew we were way off challenging for the league but my view was he had shown an ability to put good teams together. He could not pick up where he left off, in my view, as he had a far inferior squad.

"Were there any who didn't want him back and why?"

Yes, a few friends I had wondered why we could not go for a non-Evertonian. Royle at that stage was in the running but not deemed experienced enough so the only other candidate in the field with no ties to the blues I seem to remember was Bobby Robson. However, I am led to believe that was just the papers talking. Back then, the managerial field was very limited so I guess Howard was genuinely the best man for the job. I felt Royle's time had come when Kendall left in 1993 as, by then, he had proved himself a lot more with Oldham.

"How long did it take for the realisation that he wouldn't be able to recreate anything like the success of his first stint start to sink in?"

Well, if I recall correctly, the season he left we came flying out of the traps. I was at Southampton when we won and Peter Beagrie scored. We won 3 on the spin that season. I think we also hammered Man Utd at Old Trafford in the same run. We had good balance but a paper-thin squad. It seemed to me if he made a couple of good acquisitions – his last summer in charge, we were linked with Dublin, Deane, Duncan and a few other target men – then the side would benefit.

However, the realisation that he would not be able to recreate what he had done before came in the transfer market. We had reduced spending power, added to which, Howard did make some below-par signings in his second spell. Mo Johnston was not needed in a side with Stuart, Beardsley and Cottee. Rideout was a shrewd buy but Howard could not get him to play at a consistent level. Bob the Pole and Preki were just very odd acquisitions. Bob looked like he had frightening pace but he disappeared from games too often.

His acquisition of Beardsley was a masterpiece and the story around how he got Gary Ablett extra cash by doing a number on Souness had echoes of the famous stunt over changing the clock at Villa Park.

Unfortunately, I think the task of creating a top 5 team had become harder in the Premier League era and it was clear Howard had lost some of his magic dust in the transfer market, whilst also not being able to simply go out and buy who he wanted at any price.

So we hit a run of defeats before the reverse fixture against Southampton. We won 1-0, sat 8th, and I was stunned to learn of his resignation.

John, my over-riding memory of the Sheffield Wednesday cup ties is the terrible traffic getting to the final game at Hillsborough. We were 5-0 up at half-time and people were still getting into the ground.

Paul Bracewell came on as sub for the 2nd half following his long injury lay-off.

I was fortunate(?) enough to go to all the Sheffield Wednesday cup games. If my memory is not playing tricks on me, I remember sharpy scoring a complete hat-trick in the 5-0 win, when, as Peter mentions, Brace made his return after about 3 years out injured. My other memory is of Sharpy scoring an absolute screamer in one of the Goodison replays. No idea if it's on YouTube, but definitely worth searching for.

As for Howard's return, I for one trembled with excitement. I can remember telling my RS mates that the derbies would be a different story from now on!!! Alas, it was not to be. I wasn't aware of any Blues being against his return. That being said, it was before the age of the internet, so it may have been difficult to gauge widespread opinion.

Regarding Dave Watson, I enjoyed the possibly apocryphal story of how Prince Charles handed over the FA Cup to him (having previously nearly given it to the losers), asking Dave how he felt and Dave replying “Sound, Prince”.

Before the 1998 relegation game against Coventry, my main fear from our opponents was Darren Huckerby, who was capable of producing some magic. Dave clearly had similar thoughts and put Huckerby onto the pitchside gravel in the 1st minute, little was seen of the winger after that.

Clive (#15), fair enough. Everton did make Gary sign a confidentially clause at the time he left. He was a boyhood Blue and gave his all each time he was on the pitch for Everton.

He also took the training a few times while Howard was "sleeping it off" – on a bunk bed at Bellefield, by the way.

I was always grateful to Howard Kendall for restoring our pride during his first spell here. It would have been better if he had left it at that, for Everton's sake as well as his own.

Our of order, the way some of our fans treated Gary Speed after he left. All on the back of old woman gossip.

A lad once told me a story of when he lived near where Gary lived. Football training for the local kids and all you could see was Man Utd shirts and Liverpool shirts. All except for one kid in an Everton shirt. You can guess whose kid was wearing the Everton shirt.

I bumped into Billy Kenny the other week in town. He was buying studs because he was playing in a final for his over-the-hill mob team, and I said, "Where's yer mouldy's lad?"

"Fuck that, not against these dirty bastards" was his reply!

Billy, like Buddy Coyle, had most things to be a top player but the dark side of life got a grip of both of them, which was a shame for both themselves and Everton FC.

Funny lad though, Billy, he's round the bend, doesn't drink, but I'm sure he would love to, but I was laughing all day at something he said... so some things don't change anyway.

Hi Rob @5

I think the original comment (Darren @ 1) re Dave Watson being gash is only about his very early days at Everton, not his whole career

I've been told what happened by one of the players who sat in the dressing room that night at Coventry.

It's difficult to say what happened that night without somehow tarnishing the reputation of an all-time great. You don't get to play as many games as Gary Speed (God rest his soul) did without being a consummate professional.

Dave A proved on the money with what he wanted to say on the radio, but he also will be all too aware of the rampant drinking culture which existed in virtually every club in the 70s and 80s, even among the players.

Gary Speed was possibly ahead of his time in the way he looked after himself from an early age. He didn't, doesn't and never will deserve the stick he took and takes from certain quarters.

Well said, Darren.

Agree 100%

I agree also agree with Darren 100%.

Darren (#25),

I was getting on the radio to make my point that Howard's best days as a manager were long gone. I promise you I wouldn't have said a word about Howard's drinking habits, with or without the warning. I was just making the point that it was common knowledge how heavy his drinking had become.

To be fair to Howard, he was well liked by football fans and non-football fans as a person; he really and truly shouldn't have been offered the Everton job the third time around. In fact, he should have been better looked after by the people who offered him the job.

My point of posting was to defend the reputation of a genuine Evertonian, Gary Speed.

Dave, on reflection it was probably the Echo.

Mike Galley (#18)...

You had me doing a little bit of Googling with your offhand observation that "it was before the age of the internet"

To be fair, I guess it was just the early years back then, but ToffeeWeb had been online already for a couple of seasons, albeit fairly one-directional in terms of the fans, without the instant feedback from fans that has become our primary function.

What we did have were some very lively exchanges, as I recall, on the Toffeenet email server. The incidents surrounding Gary Speed that season were shrouded in mystery, leading to the kind of speculation we would be proud of now... so not much has changed there! I did try to summarize some of the feelings about this at the time in his ToffeeWeb Player Profile.

I thought there might also be an online archive of those old Toffeenet emails for you to peruse, Dave, but I could not find anything. There was plenty of heated discussion of many of these issues at the time.

I vaguely recall Lyndon taking over the admin of Toffeenet from the lad in Sweden, Bjoernar Steinbakken... or maybe that was a lot later?

Well, I should have dipped down the back of some old pages right here on ToffeeWeb, including the one on ToffeeNet.

There is an extensive archive there on Yahoo Groups – going back to 2002, so posts from ~1993 through 2002 are probably long gone...

Thanks for the input, people.

Dave W (@2),

'Project' was probably far too grandiose a word on my part. Just a piss-ant pamphlet I will be putting together while a window is there, instead of twiddling my thumbs/shaving my plums/popping round me Mum's.

Not even like I'm aiming particularly high. Thought I would just make do with a book the mirror image of the current Everton mob: an overpriced mish-mash of lazily assembled parts (that even Louis Braille... scratching both his arse and balls at the same time... could 'see' would likely struggle to form a coherent whole), never in contention for the top shelf, but not quite crap enough to be relegated to the rubbish bin.

Dave A (@7),

Can I just clarify that the Phil McNulty comment about you 'not being pleased when the identity of the new manager was revealed' was prior to Kendall coming back for his third stint in charge, not his second?

That is my presumption, but if I am off point and this conversation actually took place in 1990 rather than 1997, was it really thought that Howard's liking for a tipple had taken a toll even then? He certainly seemed to be coping well enough at City, who got off to a good start that season and were sorely disappointed (not to mention surprised) to see him jump ship at that stage.

Clive (@13) and Dave A (@14),

According to Dave Prentice, at the time of his departute from Everton, Gary Speed made the following statement:

“You know why I'm leaving, but I can't explain myself publicly because it would damage the good name of Everton Football Club and I'm not prepared to do that.”

Link

Amit (@16),

Thanks for that.

I think the victory over Man Utd that you recall occurred at the start of the preceding season, with Beardsley, Warzycha and some goal-shy ginner slotting, rather than the campaign in which Kendall left for a second time, only to be replaced by Richard Harris in a hooky Bananaman suit.

Peter Mills, You're not quite right. I have the FA Cup Final and post match interviews on VHS, recorded off the telly.

Dave Watson is asked what Charlie said to him and he says he said, how are you felling to win the cup?

Waggy replies, “As sound as a pound!”

I loved Watson. He was brilliant. That season with Michael Ball, he made young player look international class, back when it meant something to get a cap. He was 39 and still didn't get beat for pace, isolated or make mistakes. He had everyone positioned to cover for him and could read the play like a book.

Sure, technical ability, and ball skills were lacking, but as an out and out old-fashioned centre-half, there was no one better in his era.

How did he win so few caps? Who on earth believed that Mark Wright and all those idiots were better than Watson.

His transfer fee was massive. A British record for a defender at the time, and he wasn't young at 27. But I didn't think anyone could see us getting 12 seasons out of him!

John @ 33 yes you are right. But interestingly it shows me that across each of the seasons he was in charge second time around, Howard did manage to bloody the noses of the big boys.

There was of course the 4-4/1-0 dispatch of the RS in 1991: how could I forget that? Having the last laugh over Dalglish who had denied him both trophies in the double challenge of '86.

We beat Man Utd 3-0 at the very dawn of the EPL and I seem to remember a 3-2 away win against a very good Blackburn side (Dalglish again?) that might have been in his final season.

Throw in Beardsley's part in a 2-1 win against RS and the fact that Howard somehow engineered a derby win in his third spell and it showed that the man could inspire a bunch of cloggers to perform in derby matches and games against our near neighbours now and again.

In sharp contrast to the current lot, of course...

Michael (#30),

Honestly didn't realise the internet was that old. Always have been a bit of a technophobe I'm afraid!!

John (33), it was definitely the third time Howard came back to Everton, I was as happy as most fans were the second time he came back, but wasn't disappointed when he left after a 1-0 victory at home, not sure who it was against: Coventry?

John, I'm not sure about the Gary Speed quote, your link is not coming up properly on my iPad, so don't know if Dave Prentice is quoting what Gary said to him or if he had printed what Gary said at the time of him leaving Everton.

“You know why I'm leaving, but I can't explain myself publicly because it would damage the good name of Everton Football Club and I'm not prepared to do that.”

As reported in the Echo;
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/david-prentice-remembering-gary-speed-3361244

I have definately read that Gary Speed quote about why he left Everton and him not saying the reasons why somewhere before, either on here, or somewhere on the net.

Thanks a lot to those who have taken the time to respond. Much appreciated. Every little helps (except Syd, obviously. He was shite).

I am not going to be posting on ToffeeWeb from here on out, so will just take the chance, while I can, to say a quick thank you to Michael and Lyndon for putting up with me over the years, as well as the many contributors who have helped me gain new insight into all things Everton (while making me think, laugh, groan and sometimes want to go and put my ball sack straight in a Breville sandwich press as penance for existing on the same planet, never mind supporting the same bloody team, as them).

Take care all.

You'll be sorely missed. All the best fella.

From someone who knew exactly what was going on in the dressing room at the time, I was told that Howard was drinking heavily and his backroom staff at the time weren't stepping up to help. It was left to Gary to fill in and on some occasions perform duties which were way above and beyond those of a player - even on match days.

John Daley, that is sad news. Your reasons are private and I hope all is well with you. You have contributed some of the best stuff, ever, on this site. You have that rare thing, and only people of real wit have it: the confidence to waste pure gold on a small audience. You have done it, I believe, because you know there is plenty more were it came from.

I would look down a thread hoping there might be something from you or Eugene because laughing out loud is good for the soul. Anyway, good luck, you will be missed.

Will miss your witty posts, John. Come back soon.

Good luck with the project John, I'm sure it will give us a lot more entertainment than the football has lately mate!

John, I doubt this story is what you want but my late dad was a great admirer of the two Dave Watsons. Ours and the Sunderland and Southampton Watson. The thing was, he thought that they were the same man. He believed that his footballing longevity alone made him one of the greats.

In fact, he often remarked on how looking after oneself could extend a players career for many years. Once, I thought it was time to clear it up for him. I explained that there were two Dave Watsons, both fine, old-fashioned stoppers.

He looked at me and shook his head in a patient, understanding kind of way: "Son, there's only one Dave Watson!"

That's a gem, Andy!

Your posts have brightened many a day for me John. I will miss your debating skills, I will miss your knowledge and like Andy Crooks, I will I will miss your ability to make me laugh out loud when I have been alone.

God luck lad

Wishing you good luck and good health with your future John, very best wishes.

Good luck in whatever you do, John. Would be good to see you back here from time to time.

Good luck John. Hope to see your project in the form of a mighty Tome hitting the bookshelves somewhere.