The sad case of Jack Rodwell

I honestly thought he'd be England captain one day. I was WAY off.

That goal against Man Utd at the Gladwys Street that time and the rest is so forgettable apart from the mugs that blew silly money on him, a bit like we've been doing since Moshiri came in.

Ian Drury wrote a song about him: What a waste!

Still the Audi RS8 was niceeeee.

Is anyone else of the belief that, Rooney aside, and maybe Tony Hibbert, and at a stretch Adam Forshaw (at Middlesborough, briefly), our much vaunted Academy has only ever produced a never-ending series of players who never came up to scratch in the Premier League, Rodders being the epitome?

Yes Jack so did Ian Dury.

Don # 4

Rodwell and Barkley both played for England as did Jeffers before them. Osman played over 300 times for the first team and once for England. Vaughan and Anichebe were highly promising but their careers were ruined by injury
Duffy, and others, had to move on but made decent livings a little lower down the leagues.
All-in-all, not a bad haul.

Jeffers and Rodwell made inconsidered moves and it looks like Barklay has followed suit.

The one odd thing is that neither us, or the RS, has produced a top-flight goalkeeper since Geoff Barnett and Andy Rankin in the 1960s. Combined that's well over 100 years. In the RS's case it's none at all that I can remember, since WW2. I wonder why that is?

Bill (#6), "caps for England" lost any gravitas for me when Carlton Palmer won 18 (but then I could never figure out how Mullery won selection over Howie). The rest of the Everton-breds you mention, Barkley included, have never really registered outside Finch Farm at all sad to say, as far as I'm concerned.

And for what my paltry opinion is worth I too recently posted about the lack of Everton-bred keepers on another thread but it is indeed interesting that we've bested an even worse production line across the park, not that I'll be bursting out the bubbly on that score though.

Bill and Don. I know what you mean about goalkeepers but the truth is in the last 15 years or so, we probably have produced some good goalkeepers. It's just that the bar has been set even higher than before because of the ease with which all Premier League teams can recruit the best in the world.

I really liked Andy Rankin, for instance, but he hardly had that sort of global competition. The same applies right across the board in all positions I guess.

Rodwell just joins the list of players who discovered that the grass isn't always greener. I suspect that Barkley will go the same way.

On the subject of Barkley, would anyone have a chastened Ross back from Chelsea in the unlikely event that the price is right? I know players returning to their former club seldom works but that normally happens late (in Rooney's case far too late) in their careers.

I know a few managers have tried but I still have the nagging feeling that the right manager could release the Barkley we thought we had when he first burst onto the scene.

Rodwell is a great example of a young player who appeared to have everything besides the love of the game.

He was already getting caught up in stupid stuff before he moved to Man City.

Once the hunger, passion and drive have gone out of a player's game, he has very little left. Very similar to Jeffers and probably Barkley.

There is a fine line between a semi-pro and a top player. A man working as a labourer or star striker. A binman or best goalkeeper in Britain. Attitude is everything: 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration.

Sad for whom? Certainly not for Rodwell... 㿷k per week and you don't have to get changed even for training?

Sobbing all the way to the bank.

I would have Ross (and Stonesy) back in the blink of an eye, Martin. With the right manager, and system, he could finally reach his potential. If he still wants to that is.

Colin – Stonesy too would be a no-brainer for me but sadly I don't see that as realistic a prospect as Barkley being deemed surplus to requirements very soon!

I have always pottered along happy to go with what seemed accepted wisdom that we have a great academy. The U23 league win cemented this view.

But maybe I was wrong.

Is the the move from academy/U23 etc a problem all teams face. Is the step up just so huge? Or is the pressure on some club's managers (including us) just so great that they are just too risk adverse?

Is staying in Premier League so much more important financially than taking risks to try and win something?

Not saying using tired old experienced players is the best way to stay in Premier League but it seems some managers see it this way. Maybe managers think that an experienced professional can cope with the flak after messing up? Not much evidence for that!

It is symptomatic of the situation that the Championship playoff is the most valuable game.

I do think we need to play more youngsters and, if they mess up, give them more time and support but equally drop them if they keep messing up, even if they have been hailed as the new Pele!

Oh and take away all mobiles and contact with the media until they are 39!

Stones was not getting a game for large portions of the season, he could be available.

It is not a sad case. Moyes ruined him.

If he had the confidence and patience to develop him as a centre-back, then he would have been great.

Moyes instead moved him to midfield and it messed up his development.

Image moving Stones to midfield when he had his struggle a couple of years ago. He could have been playing for Watford by now instead.

If he had the confidence and patience to develop him as a centre-back, then he would have been great.

He always gave the impression of being 'a bit soft', I don't think he'd've made it at centre-back either. No heart or passion in him.

Moyes ruined him? He was on an upward curve when he left Everton. Had he stayed with us under Moyes's tutelage he could have made it a lot higher than he has ended up. It was moving to Man City and not playing which ruined him.

Players seem to forget what they have when they get their heads turned too early.

He just becomes yet another Southport lad who showed loads of promise but never fulfilled his potential. I think the most successful of the Southport contingent was goalkeeper Jimmy Rimmer played for Man Utd, Arsenal and Villa and of course Christ Church Secondary Modern and Southport Schoolboys.

Matteo had some success but the teams he played for are best forgotten, RS and Dirty Leeds.

Southport, Heswall, Kirkdale, Madeira. (Joke for my reading, not posting, friend Sean!)

All down to what drives you and who helps form discipline and self-identity rather than being like a lemming.

So hard to teach – ask anyone employed in a school where the kids aren't rich already.

Food all and class/background is a fascinating issue and especially when put in the context of other sports.

I never bought into the Rodwell the new Beckenbauer, it was always the dreaded potential with Jack. He didn't develop the way some thought he would.

Ross Barkley is an interesting case, I can't see him getting much premium game time next season either. I can't see Sarri picking him as first choice. For Ross's future, he would be better going out on loan for a year and proving he can do it.

I don't think he will return to Merseyside, he wanted out of it. Part of me would be happy for him though if he went to Bournemouth or similar and had a successful season showing off his natural talent.

I really agree re Ross, Tony. But suspect he may stay at the likes of Bournemouth. Maybe better as big fish in little pond. But obviously crazily rich so that may help.

I saw Rodwell play for England U21s at St Mary's a few years back with Henderson alongside him. Rodwell ran the game and far outshone Henderson.

Yet Henderson is now running England's midfield at the World Cup and Rodwell is fucked. Hope the money was worth it, Jack?

What's this nonsense about 'Moyes ruined him by not playing him as a centre-back?'

It is a myth that centre-back was Jack's default position. I am sure I am not alone in recalling the only 2 times Jack played at centre-back for Everton's 1st team: pre-season friendlies at lower league Coventry and Blackpool. Jack was WOEFUL! AWFUL! In both games – a total fish out of water.

Jack Rodwell's career has gone down the tube because of Jack Rodwell. He had many attributes to ensure he had a fine career at the highest level.

Wasn't it Leon Osman who wrote about Jack in his autobiography that he lacked the passion, a winning mentality, to go to the very top?

Is the damning stat still true that in the 4 years he was at Sunderland they only won one league game with him in the side?

No wonder many Mackem fans consider him the worst signing in the club's history.

Picking up 㿷k a week for 4 years and contributing nowt?

Nope! Not much to feel sad about for the lad at all.

If memory serves, his debut was in a team with Jose Baxter (success is relative) at the start of the season when Moyes threw his toys out the cot after being denied a proper transfer budget by teary Bill. We cheered him like mad, thought we had a gem.

The curse of Everton potential, good enough to be bought by a bigger club, not to play for one.

Next up, Ross Barkley.

Pulling up his Player Profile, just astounding the trouble he has had with injuries. A coincidence also that, with Barkley being mentioned, it's the hamstring that did for him too.

The last phase of his career has seemingly been an absolute disaster:

His next move, in August 2014, was a little less glamorous: Sunderland, albeit for a 㾶M, where he was at least seeing a little more game-time, without setting the world of football alight.

Indeed, he would ultimately see not one but two relegations with Sunderland as they slid from the Premier League down to League One — that first and pivotal slide coming ironically under the renowned guidance and tutelage of the former Everton manager and subsequent serial failure at Man Utd, Real Sociedad, and then Sunderland... a certain David Moyes.

In terms of the first team opportunities, Rodwell would not be involved much in their Championship travails, showing for the last time on 18 November 2017 as an unused substitute in a draw with Millwall.

The Black Cats have lurched from crisis to crisis in the Championship, and were ignominiously relegated to the third-tier after just one season, for the first time since 1988. The Birkdale man has become a symbol of their decline, and the poster boy of poor decision-making. Rodwell was said to be earning 㿲k a week but his wages are due to be cut next season after Sunderland's relegation to League One was confirmed.

The 27-year-old has one year left on his Sunderland contract but manager Chris Coleman did not know the state of Rodwell's fitness following a foot injury that kept him out for much of the season.

In a recent newspaper interview, the Blues' Academy product said it was “unfair” to expect him to walk away from his contract without a new club to go to.

“I'm quite sure we've gone down the legal route of that situation, and we're stuck with a player that doesn't want to play for Sunderland Football Club and wants to leave” Coleman added.

“But then where's he going to leave and go to? There's the conundrum. He's here and he's got one more year on his contract. He doesn't want to play for us, so fine, go and play for somebody else. But the stumbling block is the contract.

“But we'll see, it's the end of this season now. I know Jack did that big article (and said) he wanted to play for England again, so to do that, he's going to have to go and play football somewhere. The proof is always in the pudding.”

Forgetting all the cash, that must still be so frustrating for him, Michael.

Unfortunately, a lot of these young players have looked like the ‘cat's whiskers' playing for us but, when they have moved on to a better team, they have been mediocre. It just shows you how far the standards have slipped at Everton during the Kenwright years.

Kenwright — the man who sold our best ever prospect and then re-signed him when he was a shadow of the player he had once been... I fear for the future of our once-great club.

There's some players that you just know are too nice. Too posh to push. Stephen Hughes, who we got from Arsenal years ago, and Richard Wright, the goalie. No frigging aggression. Well, Rodwell was another.

I met him once coming home from Nice on EasyJet. He'd not long made his England debut and could've scored a couple. I told him to take no notice of the ginger one and keep getting in the box. I thought he had the athleticism to be a box-to-box midfielder like Gary Speed.

Anyway, not long after he was gone, another player we have who could reinvent himself as that type of player is James McCarthy. Barring injuries, he has the body type.

Just read my last sentence on previous post and had to chuckle.

Barkley to follow the same path. Sad.

Michael, the scary point of your post is the reference to the 27 year old Jack Rodwell. 27? God almighty, in my mind he is still a young prospect with the world at his feet.

I got slagged off years ago for labelling him 'Plodwell' on Bluekipper. Seems I was right. Tidy player, completely unspectacular. Easy on the eye. Even easier on the opposition.

I have heard that Gerard is bustin' his balls trying to get Barkley on loan promising him he would get him back in the England scene and get him back to where he was in Martinez first season.

I would think that would be a good move for Barkley.

I'll hold my hands up. I thought he was going to be a very good player.

Is it to too left-field for Everton to give him a lifeline? Maybe he's a player who has always regretted leaving Everton and has never felt at ease or at home anywhere else? It seems all comments from previous managers say "State of mind"...

Phil. It's three left field let alone "too" for Everton to give him a lifeline ffs.

Why give him a "lifeline" he is a millionaire. If you want to play that game, then give a "second chance" to George Green or someone who now potters around for minimum wage in non-league football or works at Tesco.

I never really saw much in Jack except a general athletic ability. In that respect, he is a bit like Cleverley, eg, like the kid at school who is naturally sporty but isn't really amazing at any one thing.

I personally don't want to see any of these jokers coming back (Barkley, Jeffers, Pienaar, Rooney, etc). We gave them all a platform, they took the money and ran, when things get tough, they return with the ever open hand. Bunch of deadbeat spongers.

Kieran @38,

I couldn't agree more. If we're going to survive (not be successful), we have to get rid of this sentimental attitude that seems to run through the club

Not on the fans side, I'm all for trying to keep ticket prices down etc. But we seem to have become a pension house for ex-players who felt they didn't need us when they were at their playing prowess.

A few things can contribute to a young players demise. Getting a nagging injury just when the career is taking off can really affect some and having a manager who rushes them back can also be a problem.

Some young players want it all too quickly and the media can go overboard sometimes which can have a player believe they are better than they really are and then the swelled head comes in and they don't train like they should do. Does anyone remember Peter Barnes?

Barkley and Rodwell are talented without doubt but something in their psyche has kept them from becoming great. There could be personal problems... who knows? But I don't think for one minute it was being an Everton player.

Georgie Best was one of the best but why did his great career spiral out of control? Was it just the booze?

We're very quick to announce to the world that a young player won't make it... it's the easiest comment to make. The odds are stacked in your favour.

Rodwell is just another example of what can go wrong. There's no doubt in my mind that he had the attributes and the talent to be a top level player.

What he seemed to lack was the desire – "too much Birkdale, not enough Kirkdale", I think someone on here described it as. Could that have been coached into him? Moyes gave up very early on him being a midfielder or defender and parked him further up the pitch to avoid him having to have responsibility.

Injuries just prevented him from having even a decent career.

I suppose I'm not really that surprised. Roswell Rodwell rarely impressed me if I'm honest.

I think he developed physically quite quickly, and looked to have the build and stature of an older player which, in turn, he was able to build a reputation from.

You see the opposite with small young players quite often. Short, skinny kids let go from academies for being too small, only to show up a few years later slightly taller and slightly stronger with amazing pace and quick feet.

I'm glad we cashed in when we did.

It's nowhere near that simple, James. If it was, Everton and Man City would be clamoring to recruit you.

Prior to the injuries, there was a player there. Plenty of people who've made a career out of it could see that, despite the Evertonians who insisted he couldn't make it. The reason he didn't is far more complex than him having never been good enough.

Tipping young players not to make it is like tipping losers in the National. Actually, it's worse – the horses don't care that you're backing against them.

James (#42) Roswell and Rodwell are similar, in theory there was something to see there, but no evidence-based proof to support the theory.

Seriously, though, it is a shame he never seemed to have that spark that should have taken him to the very highest levels of the game.

I think it is world UFO day today...

Sunderland fans may say that is what Jack Roswell refers to a football as.

Tom Bowers@40

I well remember Barnes, fast tricky winger, but I had a look at his Wiki page, out of interest. He played for 29 clubs, including two spells at City and one at United, but he also got 22 caps at a time when you didn't get capped after three sub appearances for Spurs. Interesting life after football as well if you have a look.

As for Best, if he had had a stronger manager than Busby he may not have lost his way.

Simply overated...like so many sadly.

Old story of believing in your own myth, thinking you are better than the club that developed you.

Smell the money/pushed by the agent then never to be seen again. Jeffers 2 – the sequel.

Coming soon... Jeffers 3 – Chelski misadventure.