Dismal showing limits Chelsea to two easy goals

Besic on the bench with Kenny, Lennon, Lookman, Clavert-Lewin, Martina.

Hard these Balkan geezers.

ps: I'd also hook Tom... another game passing him by.

This myth he has become is based on one game in a World Cup about 3 years ago and one game against Man City about two years ago; the rest of the time he's been with us he's been rubbish or injured!

In a more realistic world, I think young Tom Davies could go on to be our Steven Gerrard but hopefully without the total tosser part.

Push the back line up and do this mythical pressing Koeman is supposed to like but we never see. Koeman's fault in my opinion and it's been on the cards for weeks.

Why is Williams on the pitch? A total liability – we saw that in Croatia. No tactical thinking or strategy from Koeman.

Another drubbing on the cards. Same old crap, despite the millions spent. Chelsea haven't broken into a sweat.

I fear the worst of this is what's to come. I knew the recent results were just papering over the cracks.

Might as well get beat 5-3 than get beat 1-0 or 2-0 without even having a shot on the opponents' goal .

Hopeless. Spent £150 million and we look twice as bad as last season.

I thought last season's effort down there was bad. This is on par
– if not worse. Disgraceful. Have we actually been in their box? Damage limitation time here because this could get messy...

Why he persists I just don't know, I've never seen us play well using it.

There is no protection for the defence in front of them.

Neither Gueye nor Davies are getting anywhere near enough to Fabregas or Willian. The Chelski pair have all the space and time they need to hurt us and they have. Nor are either of them being careful enough with the ball when they get it. Gueye at fault for the 2nd goal for not clearing his lines while he had the chance.

Nor is there any out ball for us and thus no threat. Not ONE touch in the Chelsea penalty area in that 1st half? Oh. Dear.

Ok, Sandro is getting no service. Neither Siggurdsson nor Rooney are helping much in the transition from defence, through midfield to attack, but being so much under the cosh, Sandro could come looking for the ball more.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Calvert-Lewin on for him after the break to offer us that elusive outball.

Will Koeman persist with the five at the big, or re-jig it to put numbers in midfield? Not much available from the bench to do that.

And Williams is far from 'bloody awful'. He is a popular whipping boy for some, isn't he?

I'd take Williams off and throw Besic on and try to push Davies further forward, and push Rooney and Sigurdsson from the midfield into the forward line. Maybe even throw Dominic Calvert-Lewin on to play as the 9 as an alternative.

We will be in the bottom 6 by the end of August.

Hes bloody awful.. out of position for large parts of that half and his dance routine for their first goal was comical.. No idea what he was at for the second either.

I've seen you defend him repeatedly on here.. he has the odd decent game, but mostly he's a calamity waiting to happen.

Reserving judgement is a matter of infinite hope And he's simply not good enough... Whipping boy or not.

We haven't turned up today at all.

The second goal was down to Keane.

We are aware that this has been a hard week for Everton's players but I am afraid that is no excuse for not being able to pass the ball to one of your players 10 yards away. I understand we are a work in progress but on this showing – especially in the first half – we are showing no progress.

Not good admittedly but no need to despair either.

I want Everton to succeed but please stop the back-passing to then play hoof-ball.

This manager is tactically brain-dead and the way he set the side up today, a la last season, was nothing short of criminal. I've said it a million times, Koeman is not the man for Everton – he's just another Moyes only with a bigger war chest.

I'm losing patience with Koeman.

83 minutes before we switched from that ineffectual back 5 formation and had a bit of a go.

Holgate had another good game, I think he's earned a go in the centre with Keane.

Poor effort all round.

Come to think of it, what were the positives?

We need another striker and we have to sign someone. We should have gone for one ahead of Sigurdsson, it needs to be done soon.

Personally, going off what's available, and who's willing to come, we should sign Benteke. Surely, he will want out of the sinking ship that is Palace.

Does anybody know if it is in Rooney's contract to play every 90 minutes?

I hope Rooney tells him that this cowardly shite is unacceptable to most Everton fans.

Lose by all means to a better team but at least show some pride and spirit!

Maybe some jaded, some not yet match fit, some missing but we need to offer more than that display if we're to be taken seriously as competitors in this company.

Seriously fucking disappointing.

4 important days to come.

Personally, I'm happy with this summer's recruits – apart from Sandro and Klaassen – so, hopefully, we can improve as a side. As for the aforementioned, they will need to shape up over the course of this season; or, Koeman will need to cut his losses and ship them out.

Early days, but, going forward, Everton need to ruthless in order to bridge the gap between the too sides.

When we're as bad as that it's hard to get too angry or disappointed though. Man City was worse as we should've closed that one out.

Without the striker and pacy goal threat in wide forward positions we're stuck in seventh yet again and will come unstuck in the Cups if we can't avoid the better teams as we'll go into those matches exactly like this with the same outcome.

The trip to Split no doubt had an effect but we're going to have many more such occasions this season and we'd better react better.

So, a predictable defeat. But if we don't find two high quality attacking options next week then it's going to be painful, very painful. I also hope, against the evidence, that the manager will set up the side to play with some adventure and bravery at some point. That would be nice.

To me, he looks like this season's Niasse. Granted the service to him was woeful but, whenever the ball is played into him, it bounces straight off him and back to the opposition.

Maybe all three but, judging by this thread, it's another dull performance with no shots on goal?

They're a really good side but trying to match their clever movement with 3 big centre backs is suicide. They're not aiming long balls or regularly swinging in crosses... why reduce the number of players we have with ability on the ball?

In attack? Well with so many defensive players we end up passing it backwards as that's where the players are. Then we end up lumping it forward. When we did try to play forward we found a team with no structure. It was clear Sandro struggled badly but what was his position? He's not a true number 9 is he?

We improved with DCL and Lennon on. Pace, width, aerial presence and effort. Neither are world beaters but it's not exactly rocket science to have those kind of attributes in your team is it?

Chelsea won't have an easier game all season than that.

I never thought a Dutch great as a player would be such a coward as a manager.

Oh, I take everything back, I forgot it's a 'project'... and a long-term one at that.

Huge mistake by Ronald Koeman. Doesn't he learn from his lessons? Everton have to learn to deal with teams that press high. It was the same last season.

Holgate, Ramirez, Williams – all shockingly abysmal. On and off the ball. Even the very few chances we go right at the death were only because they took their foot off the pedal.

It will be the same next time if we don't add some quality and change the way we play against teams like Chelsea.

Koeman is completely risk averse, and is allowed to get away with such negativity when David Moyes was completely berated for it. Of course Koeman has had ten times the funds Moyes ever had to invest in playing staff, and what's the difference? Not much as far as I can see.

These players simply cannot keep hold of the ball, constantly surrendering cheap possession to teams who will kill you as a consequence. It was the same against Man City. Very poor. Very frustrating.

More shoulder shrugging to come from Mr Koeman, no doubt.

With the internationals arriving, it's time to concentrate all your efforts on purchasing a proven goal-scorer – no matter what the cost.

EXACTLY...

I'M Fuming... disgraceful display for an Everton team.

"Brilliant idea."

"What if we need another striker?"

"Sign that Giroud lad from Arsenal."

"What if he doesn't want to leave?"

"We'll think of something."

"Smashing..."

No chance of top six let alone top four unless we lose our complete inferiority complex when playing away from Goodison. We still need pace and a goalscorer who can hold the ball up.

Dom coming on for Sandro gave us an out ball with a player able to challenge, win and hold up the ball to give others time to get forward in support.

Maybe Chelsea took mercy on us, maybe the tweaking was the determining factor, but whilst not total parity with the home side, at least we competed and carried some threat in the 2nd half.

As for you Ciaran @ 21, I will repeatedly defend Williams as long as you (and others) by default repeatedly single him out for what I consider unjustified criticism.

Contrary to your claim that Williams "has the odd decent game, but mostly he's a calamity waiting to happen", the inverse is true. He has the odd off game, but nowhere near 'calamitous.'

It is pure invention on your part to claim he was "out of position for large parts of (the 1st) half." You clearly didn't not register the clearing headers, the clean tackles and telling blocks he made, throughout the game. There were NO obvious 'rickets' by Williams at all.

It says everything that you contrive to lay the blame at Williams' feet for both goals when quite clearly (for anyone capable of just and fair assessment) the primary culpability lay elsewhere.

"Bloody awful" you repeat, singling Williams out as you did.

The overall team performance was poor. Were Keane or Jags any better in the back 3? And which of the 3 did Koeman elect to replace by game's end? So why not the label 'bloody awful' against anyone else today from you?

People going on about the defence being the start of the process need to start looking at the defence. Ruzomberok, Split, Stoke City, Man City and now Chelsea have broke through it enough for everyone to be raving about Pickford. And rightly so; he has been one to be happy with this season along with Rooney and Calvert-Lewin's effort.

The defence and defensive midfield are the most dull, non-pacey, non-footballing set-up we could possibly make from this squad so he needs better than Gana, Williams and Jagielka. Gana will try all day but he is no footballer and every week it's clear to see we lack a link between midfield and attack.

Can Klaassen become that player? I am not sure but I doubt he has the strength to unlock all the bigger teams. And he's always going to be stuck with Gana and Schneiderlin behind him.

Honestly it was one of the worst performances I've ever seen. Holgate started 80 percent of our "attacks". He can't pass or cross which is an issue but every time he got the ball I was looking around for our midfielders and they were nowhere to be found. The three of them seemed to hide behind Chelsea players so they wouldn't have to get the ball.

Then upfront we had this pub player all over the place and this frustrated old statue who seemed to think he could talk the ref into awarding us a win. People say we need a striker. Okay, true... but who the fuck is going to get the ball from Holgate to the striker? Are we relying on Holgate getting fouled so Sigurdsson can take a free-kick?

Oh dear

It's the same each season, we assemble a squad that's good but not good enough to dislodge the usual big 6. Okay against the other 13 teams, but not skilled enough when the big games come round.

I would like to be optimistic that things will change but, unless we can attract the very top players, we are stuck in this limbo.

If he's going to continue to send out a team to just defend, don't bother. That shite is acceptable at other clubs, it should be condemned here.

Koeman needs to have a think as we didn't stand a chance today with his tactics. We looked a lot better with Calvert-Lewin but we left it too late. Poor.

It's all to do with mindset good management and a bit of fortune. Today we didn't have any of those things.

Our manager is worryingly negative. Also, some of our players might take months to adapt to this league.

You sound a bit like OJ Simpson's attorneys defending the indefensible. I'm not one for hyperbole but you can't polish a turd. There's no excuses. There are no positives. None, zilch, zero.

They were the opposite. Quick, fantastic movement, skill etc.

I'm struggling to see any difference in our displays from last season. I think Leicester are better – never mind the usual suspects.

Pissed off, on a train full of happy Chelsea fans.

I do not repeatedly "by default" single Williams out at all. You just made that up to suit your crass and lazy 'whipping boy' comment. It's stable fare with you... straw man arguments and sniffy condescension. Fair and reasonable arbiter my arse!

All three defenders were not good today, but Williams was the worst in the first half. I saw him repeatedly dragged out of position and left for dead up the pitch. I also saw him concede possession regularly.

I also didn't lay the fault at Williams for 'both goals'... for the second goal he was in front of the goal then moved away into no-man's land. That doesn't mean I blame him for it, there were clearly other factors at play. You'd do well do actually read my posts, ruminate on them and actually think about them – if you intend to critique them.

I don't think they're officially allowed to forfeit but I'd assume he plans to do so unless he positively states otherwise. Looking ahead, I'm sure he's already decided to forfeit the Man Utd game and I wouldn't be shocked if we forfeit Sunderland.

But we absolutely have to rediscover our soul as a club, putting a premium on attractive, attacking football and especially away from home. Playing in fear is a betrayal of everything we stand for, or used to stand for. And I'm not, by any means, talking only about today.

Eh?

Evidently hard of reading, Kieran.

It's very early days but from what we've seen so far we're miles away from the top 5

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Well done, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, for coming on and having a go.

I posted a while ago that I expected we would challenge for a top four place. Well we won't; our squad may not be good enough but we will never know because the coach clearly believes we are not good enough.

Once again, we looked like a non-league team playing away in the FA Cup.

Well said and I think Ronald will need those self-same lawyers to explain to us how we imagined it all. And what really happened was that we played great and were extremely unlucky.

I'm afraid Tom Davies needs returning to Unsworth's ranks as he is surely not ready for this level of football, runs around like a headless chicken chasing the ball leaving big holes in the middle and allowing the opposition to run into those spaces.

The lack of a replacement up front for Lukaku is nothing short of a disgrace seeing as we new for most of last season he intended to leave. I'm baffled by the lack of replacement,should have had Vardy or Giroud already tapped up,also desperate for a left back and a centre back to partner Keane; we should've been in for Maguire early.

Big Ron, with the help of a section of our supporters have decided to hound Barkley out,a player though in bad form and suffering from a lack of concentration,something that could be addressed with the help of a sports psychologist,is still better than anything we have in midfield.

God help us away from home in the Europa with these tactics, pass sideways,pass back, sideways again, back to Pickford or Williams... HOOF! The inability to change formations and tactics mid-game is worse than anything we saw under Moyes.

I don't expect us to win every game but I do expect some effort, strategy and guts all of which were anonymous for 80 odd minutes.

I'd like to thank Chelsea for not humiliating us as that could've been a cricket score.

Get your thinking cap on Ronald, this is just unacceptable.

Let's face it ANOTHER hard disappointing season looms. Get used to it.

Koeman isn't the right manager although I don't know who is either. He has a whole new batch of "good" players... must be his SHIT tactics I guess. Now who is looking forward to the derby? Oh yes . kopites. They're rubbing their greasy little hands at the prospect of yet another mauling.

Same old, same old.

I think the jury is out on whether we are better as a team or just comparable to last years team. This club has required a centre-forward for years but the narrow minded people concerned with transfers likes to test the water and see how we cope rather than get someone in. My hope is that they have a centre-forward lined up...

I hope they are also finalising who will take over from Koeman after his three-year project. Isn't the ex Dortmund manager available? I hope Moshiri and Co are learning from their dealings with players who enter their final year and acting more proactively with regards the manager.

I only saw about 20 minutes of today's game. Some of us including myself thought Gana was on a par with Kante on his day. He is far from it.

Thats just one. He's not getting near Matic I really suspect. These are the type we need to beat so we need players that can at least compete with them.

City bring in a Championship winning manager. Chelsea bring in Championship winning managers. United tried Moyes and said fuck that, get me a championship winning manager. Liverpool, same.

You want to know who our next manager will be? Just look at who is battling relegation this season.

The only positives for me were Calvert-Lewin showing how good he can be with proper support and Besic showing enthusiasm and skill.

Can we please see the back of this deep defending shit. We had centre-halves and the goalkeeper falling over each other at times.

It could also be that the players are just not playing as he wants them to. Lastly we had a long Euro trip and several injuries but they're only excuses, we've been pretty rubbish all season really. So disappointing today in terms of skill and work rate.

I can't tell Koeman anything about football but perhaps I can suggest that we don't have the players to make a success of back 3.

We had zero shots on target today. Sandro clearly needed to be taken off before he was, and when Lewin, then Lennon came on, we actually stretched them. Why we didn't bring them on at half time, I do not know. Yes, Koeman probably got that wrong.

To end on a bright note (quite hard to say the least). We have an international break, thus some rest and recuperation for the players. We may have some players in and boy do we need them, by the next game. Klassen will be fit, hopefully. Sigurdsson fitter and sharper, Sandro over his injury (he was awful today, but will get better me thinks!). But, we cannot be playing the 4 senior guys as much as we have. Seeing as Galloway is out on loan I am assuming if we don't sign a lb, then Garbutt or Connolly will be used. If not Martina, it will be an interesting couple of days.

Koeman obviously knows better than me, as do a lot of fans, would a midfield 3 and an attacking 3 have worked today given the fit personnel at our disposal?

This defeat may provide the extra impetus to get the new players in that we need. Here's hoping!

Now who you "blame" is up to you Koeman certainly needs to look at why he's repeated the Williams/Jags & one other 3 centre half defence again like last season as it just won't fucking work against these!!

Aside from that Sandro was just zero, nothing, nothing did he contribute. God love Pickford, Keane and Calvert-Lewin because they were at least having a go.

I am not a big fan of three at the back, but when you have two of them who are not comfortable at bringing the ball out of defence, Williams and Jagielka, I do not see the point of playing it, it was abandoned at half-time versus Stoke City.

None of us enjoy Everton losing but when the game is given up without a fight then it is more than hard to bear and it happens too much under Koeman – especially away from home.

I'm echoing myself from last season when often I had to say how sorry I was for the fans who went down there today to watch that poor excuse at giving our opponents a fight; unexcusable, getting up in the early hours of the morning and getting home late at night to watch, what?

You will have to do much better than that, Ronnie, or there will be plenty joining Darren Hind and his summing up of you. Doubtless a good few have joined Darren after today; I'm moving slowly towards that corner.

Everton are supposed to be a team in progress, but today the team, and most of all the manager, showed very little progress.

However, Calvert-Lewin showed that he can lift the team when he came on. He shows real promise. Sandro was isolated and didn't turn up. We need quality, desperately.

Then, when these tactics clearly aren't working, who waits until the 83rd minute to take a defender off? It's not as if it was 0-0, we were 2 down at half-time and hadn't even been in their box!!!

Why didn't he change it? I don't understand where that decisive, ruthless mentality has gone, that saw him change things before half-time at West Brom, when we were 2 down and we won it.

Is there something about Everton that turns managers into blind, stubborn, set-in-their-ways, pigheaded bullshitters lately?

I really thought more of Ronald Koeman as a manager; I really hoped he could see things before, during, and after games... with the ability to alter a games tactically and the character to see, admit and learn from his shortcomings. Only then will he be a top manager.

I really hope and pray he gets this right and proves my alarmingly increasing doubts wrong, as I really don't know what failure of this project would mean for either him or our beloved club.

Come on, Ronald, sort this negative approach out. We actually look good in an attacking formation, that's the most frustrating thing.

Not one of Everton's forwards had a shot on goal, and in total Everton had no shots on target. Everton maybe evolving but there are missing links everywhere. No great full backs; not another decent centre half alongside Keane; no width and no proven Premier League striker. And Koeman has committed to spending nearly £200 million without them.

What does it take for this manager to work out that three centre halves is at least one too many? It didn't work last year and it hasn't this season.

Davies now seems to suffer the Schneiderlin and Gana fear of crossing the halfway line. When he started in the first team he'd play a pass and move to take a return. Now. like all Koeman's favourites, it's play a pass and run away so nobody can blame you for getting it wrong.

It seems that the only thing being instilled is the fear of getting the blame for trying something positive. All players with the ability and fearlessness to take a man on, one on one, have been despatched by this manager. We are now without pace and ability. Lump it long because we have nobody willing to take an opponent on in case it goes wrong.

Second half, Conte put men wide on both sides of the pitch and that totally threw Everton out. Outplayed and out-managed! A top half league position may have been good enough for his previous clubs but this is what is known as mediocrity. Please, let's see as much effort into going forward as it seems is put into trying to defend.

Davies is not playing as he was last season. Sandro and Klaassen don't look good enough so far. We need a proper striker to lead the line and a wide man on. Why we don't go for Mahrez, a proven Premier League player, I can't understand.

We are now in the start-up stage proper and we have a squad generally of Koeman's choosing, and boy do we look shit.

None of us, well I hope not, ever want us to lose, but if we do, and we have been the better team, or put in a brilliant performance and been unlucky (a word so often associated with us) we can reluctantly accept it.

To go out today, despite the losses through injury or suspension, I would have thought the player's brought in would bust a gut to impress and cement a berth in the side. No such luck (see, there's that word again), they looked like they had never played before, let alone played together as a team.

I know much of today's abysmal performance can be laid firmly at Koeman's door, but the players must look at themselves too. Even though many were played out of position.

We are desperate for a centre-forward who can hold the ball. If we don't get one, we're not challenging the top 6.

We need at least 3 signings by the close of the window. A left sided centre-back, we have only one left back, we haven't replaced Lukaku, and there's no shape to the team.

Chelsea leading 2-0, he brings off Davies, and brings on another defensive midfielder; then he brings on Lennon for Jagielka with only 7 mins left. Baffled.

If we fail to bring in a striker before Thursday's deadline I'll be majorly concerned. Where is the money for new players? And don't quote me the money we got for Romelu Lukaku as being money spent.

Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Keane all assure us that Ronald was a big factor in their arrival and yet somehow it isn't gelling. I don't know what it is but there's a gap somewhere and we're falling into it.

Interesting as well that the manager is calling for delivery of more players. Hope everything's all right and we're all pulling together.

Not counting youngsters for the future, we have:

Pickford – looks great
Keane – looks good
Gueye – generally good
Rooney – better than feared
Sigurdsson – fingers crossed

Klaassen, Sandro & Martina – early days but no real evidence of anything special
Schneiderlin – solid but offers nothing going forward
Bolasie – who knows, very inconsistent
Williams – awful

We have added no pace or craft to the team and have to play slow deliberate football because they are the players we have bought.

The manager selected the system used and prepared the players for it. They played that system last Monday but not on Thursday. He must have been satisfied they were ready to go, and he was wrong. He needs to decide why and look at himself, his preparation, his selection and his tactics. It didn't work and it is his job to decide why and what he can do better. No excuses.

The players didn't execute whatever plans had been set. They need to look at that and accept no excuses too.

I think (hope) we have the people strong enough to have that discussion. We're supposed to have a lot of leaders around the dressing room. Well, best they fucking lead and quick because more no shows like this one can't be tolerated, not by us but Moshiri will have a point of view too.

At least we won't have to listen to Lukaku's bullshit in the next week or so, but I really hope we are delighted by what unravels between now and Thursday.

Lots of players have either moved on or were watching on TV while feigning injury,awaiting a big money move. These next few days are crucial and will provide an indication as to whether the days of Kenwright's shenanigans are truly over.

They pay us lots of TV money for a reason so we better just get on with it and add the depth to compete with the ever more demanding TV schedules.

If Koeman wants to manage Barça one day, he's going to have to do a lot better than this.

Pickford
Martina Keane Williams Baines
Lookman Sigurdsson Schneiderlin Sandro / Mirallas
Rooney Calvert-Lewin

This is the set up what we currently have the players for. But these days, anything considered "old-fashioned" won't be countenanced.

He got out of jail last season blaming lack of fitness and everything on Martinez; now it's his team and his responsibility. Great players don't usually become great managers... oh, and Ramirez is shite.

Poor Mason stuck at right back. I would drop Jags or Williams and play him with Keane.

Baines can only skip inside and poses no threat down the left. We had nobody to hold it up until Calvert-Lewin came on.

We must be the easiest side to defend against. I am becoming disenchanted with our manager. We are becoming a slow, awkward team, lacking zip and invention. I would wait until the end of the season and have a rethink about his role in the "project".

Ron seems clueless as how to put things right, it's all very well playing to a reasonable standard against poor or average opposition, but he seems dumfounded against quality teams, it's pitiful at times to watch. He's sold nearly every winger at the club and not replaced any of them, very odd I'd say.

Not very confident he will sign the right type of player we need up front and that might be his last throw of the dice. This time next season, he might be gone.

Playing Holgate at wing back to target long diagonal balls from Pickford – didn't work

Playing Tom Davies ahead of Besic – didn't work

Using Sandro as a lone striker instead of Calvert-Lewin – didn't work

Including no pace in the team – didn't work.

Only changing the formation after 82 minutes – criminal.

We are so unbelievably poor and our performances are getting worse with every match.

If we can't get it together in the next few weeks then probably best to forget the stadium and see what we have to do to wind up the club.

Do we have to play the remaining games or can we forfeit? I think the players contracts get cancelled if we shut up shop so no out of pocket costs.

None of us wants to lose, but we can accept defeat if the team plays well in the game. Koeman seems to accept defeat in advance, sends out an ultra defensive line up with no hope of goals once we fall behind.

We thought Martinez was tactically inept but Koeman is somehow making him look like a bloody genius. At least we could score goals in his time, even though we leaked them at the other end.

Sending a team out with little or no hope of winning is an abdication of his responsibility to the club, his employers and the fans, who pay to watch their team at least try to win football matches, not lie down and die because the manager doesn't have the balls to send them out to try to win.

How long before serious questions are asked at board level about just what knowledge of tactics Koeman truly possesses? Last season, this season, the formula for away games hasn't changed at all.

Sorry. I think the guy who was assigned to provide Donald Trump only good news recently quit. You could look him up and see if he's available.

You don't need to be ridiculous going all out attack but you do need an intent to win the game. I said before the Man City game that we shall see how far we've come and that and today just showed we haven't moved anywhere. Frightened to death against City in the 2nd half and frightened to death today.

I know it's early days and I'm trying not to be too pessimistic but even allowing for time for the players to gel, the formation just invites the better teams to come and attack us. I absolutely hate this 2 defensive midfielders, no need for it. It's a modern thing which even Moyes never used. Also 3 at the back just doesn't work for us. A flat back 4, we look much more comfortable. Those lamenting Lukaku not being here seem to forget why he was called a lazy lump, especially in these kinds of games.

Koeman needs to go back to the drawing board and make us a force – not a cowering bunch of amateurs only concerned with keeping the scores down.

Look on the bright side, we lost 5-0 in November at the bridge.

Need a striker and two wingers! Anyone got a spare £100 million going spare?

Quite funny, that.

I stick by what I said weeks ago. How many of these players are as quality as Moyes (who had no money) signings?

Cahill? Arteta, Pienaar, Lescott, Distin, Jagielka?

Pickford I reckon could go in that bracket. Rooney and Sigurdsson we already knew were good players.

As of yet I don't believe many more fit into that bracket of quality.

We've bought pedestrian players who with the 3 cart horses at the back deliver slow slow slow play and when they have to pass it, inevitably give it away. We haven't played well at all this season other than 1st half vs Split at Goodison.

How the hell is he going to fit Davies, Sigurdsson, Klaassen and Rooney in the team. Has he bought with vision and game plan or just players he's fancied for years. Who decided on Lookman? The lad is petrified to play, doesn't fit with a slow play team. I'm worried to hell...

I was hoping that was irony

Koeman is getting like Moyes. One thing I hated about Moyes – he nearly always finished the game with the team he should have started with. Too little, too late, too often.

It's a terrible sign of having a lack of something. Whether that be confidence, skill or pace it left us short of what could be achieved most years and continued under Martinez.

I wouldn't have rested anybody from the starting line-up today just because they played previous games in a demanding week. We have two weeks off now ffs, so I would have set them to the task from the off and then, only then, subbed them if they really ran out of legs. Calvert-Lewin should have started, for me – so far he's looked more of a threat than Sandro.

Why are we playing so defensively against teams? We seem to be playing for a draw in the hope we can snatch a goal and hang on or just hang on! Once we go behind, it's more or less game over.

Until we change this mindset and tactics, we will never progress to the next level... in fact, we will be lucky to stay at the level we are.

I don't mean not losing but to lose without a fight, and the usual last 20 minutes of having a go, isn't good enough.

The die was cast from the off and our shapeless setup gave this to Chelsea. They went to half pace in the 2nd half and let us off the hook.

Our season will get better but the mentality must change to become winners rather than just turning up for a game.

Surprised by the number of people coming on and labelling the manager a coward... Even Colin weighs in at post 39.

Like any Everton manager, I'm prepared to give them time to shape their team and see what happens but this was beyond a joke.

No shape, no effort, no clue. Not good enough and don't give me the "three games in six days" nonsense.

I'll give him until November and if we are still playing dull, turgid, senseless crap, then I would expect Moshiri to act. Surely he can't be a wet rag like Bill?

At present, the team looks like it lacks balance. There is too much emphasis on defensive midfield play and precious little on attack. And there's not much attacking substance on our right (not that the left is light-years ahead). The return of Coleman and Bolasie can't come quick enough, perhaps.

But on the other hand, we can't dismiss the fact that the players were cream-crackered after the previous two games.

Nobody is happy with that dreadful performance today but it's possibly like comparing weather with climate.

What I will say though is that if the long term strategy is to play anything like today then I want no part of it. I want Everton to play like Liverpool. I want them to have a good humoured extrovert like Klopp as manager. There, I've said it.

We need to buy a centre forward and get Bolasie and Coleman back to give us pace in the team.

The manager needs to stop being so negative and show us the type of manager he was at Southampton who had a good record against the top teams.

He's as frozen as the players. Is it because he knows, at the age of 54, that he needs to get this one right and has developed a dread of risk and is just overwhelmed?

Home truths need telling. Perhaps Mr Rooney can oblige – it might be the biggest service he ever does Everton. We must wake up.

As was clearly evident, we are just not in the same league as Chelsea and the rest who finished above us last season and three games in a week was always going to be tough. Of course we might get the odd result if we catch any of these teams on a bad day, get a bit of luck, and we have a good day.

Moving forward, the big concern for me is there is no drive from our team, everything we do is pedestrian, we are back to this sideways passing again, offensively we are non-existent. We have not got one player who is driving us forward from midfield, is it the players or is it the manager?

This side / squad are not good enough to challenge or beat any of the top six, in my opinion. I really cannot see us improving on seventh. First defeat of the season, but it has been coming.

Our neighbours are light-years ahead of us, I'm dreading playing them and the rest having seen what we have to date.

I understand Koeman is building his own side and that takes time, but where is he going with it football wise? Defensively and offensively we are lacking (Williams is starting to worry me greatly), we need a proven goalscorer fast!

No excuses for Koeman any more – this is now his side, and he has this season to show he is not the pretender many think him to be.

Darren (#162),

Who is the best? Who holds the aces?

Clever last line mate - cap doffed

The big difference was that within the first five minutes, you could see how they were set up, who had what job, how they were going to link defence to midfield to attack.

Better players, better coach.

Now, I know we had injuries, it was clear that at least half the team were knackered and/or not match fit, but there was a clear difference.

Not for the first time, it looked like the midfielders and forwards had been randomly thrown on the pitch. Not for the first time, the players were hesitant, every movement was telegraphed. Not for the first time, we offered little in attack.

To me this was reminiscent of Martinez seasons two and three, where the coach says some good things, then delivers something different on the pitch. Tactically inept, or unable to get his message through to the players? Or both?

Koeman is Moshiri's man. Won three, drawn two, lost one aren't sacking stats, but the absence of a pattern of play and attacking intent are alarming. I'll judge him at Christmas, when teams are in the position their performances merit. It may gel, we could be playing good stuff and winning games. If not, he'll be under severe pressure after being backed and buying 'his' players.

He might be Moshiri's man, but I think he'll be a lot less benevolent than Kenwright.

Giroud and second thoughts? What I would say is that I would have loved him to come but if he had been thinking about coming, he's probably having second thoughts now.

We've lost the game before it starts.

We can predict the result (not the score) before a ball is kicked:

Man City (a) draw
Chelsea (a) loss
Man Utd (a) loss (unless Moyes is managing Utd)
Liverpool (a) loss
Arsenal (a) loss
Spurs (a) loss

Can even predict the level of performance too:

Man City - battle like mad for a draw
Chelsea - don't even break a fucking sweat
Man Utd - battle for half an hour and roll over
Liverpool - don't even try, just give them four goals and have fucking done with it
Arsenal - battle for a bit, relax, battle a bit more...and fucking lose to a late goal
Spurs - see Chelsea performance

So fucking tired of the whole thing! Chelsea were twated at home first game...three easy points off us each season though!!

The way Koeman sets his teams up away from home is an insult to everyone who's paid good money and is criminal. Witness his team selection at Anfield last season – shocking!

Sorry but this season will echo last season: decent home form, abysmal away and out the cups without troubling the big boys. I'd wager a bet we'll struggle in the Europa League as well given our shit away record under him.

I can take getting beat, it's not a problem, it happens to every team in the world but getting beat without looking like we care. Well, that's another thing...

Lukaku shouldn't have been sold until we had a replacement of similar quality. Until we get someone in who can score 20+, we won't be improving on 7th.

I am watching developments and living in hope...

I was at the Chelsea game last season and this one. The difference – we were battered due to dreadful tactics both times but with different personnel. Koeman is hopeless and is spending money like water on the same type of players. Bizarre.

There is a context though, and only a fool would ignore it. That is the third away game in (just under) 6 days. We had a real lack of energy and I'm baffled that Rooney started again. We can't prepare properly or be right physically with such a tight turnaround.

That said, there are problems beyond that. Tactics were not great today – the lack of pace again seemed an issue. We need more pace at centre-back and more up top – much of our season's success depends on it. I'm hopeful we can get it in before the window shuts.

4 points isn't a bad start – but, as I've said before, we won't threaten the top 4 with this squad and Europa League football to boot. Progress will need to be gradual and we have to perform in the cup – we've got enough talent to win things and we need to be moving forward, even with Lukaku's and Barkley's departures.

This is a big season for several in this squad and a last season for some too I expect. It is also a massive season for Koeman – last season represented progress, although it was not barnstorming, but Koeman needs to prove he can move us forward.

For me, today was the Martinez at Southampton moment. The first moment of doubt I have felt about Koeman. It was gutless.

I made the same mistake when I managed, it's ingrained in yer and judging by his set-up, it would take a major intervention for him to be any other way.

I'm not saying all managers that are defenders prioritise defence first, I know from first hand experience that is how you think if you were. TGT was; El Bob must've played on a different planet, interstellar league or something.

You criticize Klopp and Pochettino for playing crash bang wallop football as it isn't sustainable. Both finished in the top 4 and you know I would love a bit of crash bang football as you call it. Because going to Goodison at the moment is not very enjoyable. Just to see us come out the blocks quickly and really have a go at sides, instead of this measured football that is neither exciting or winning games.

By the way you say you prefer Conte's approach, so what was that different between his style and Klopp and Pochettino. He played Hazard, Pedro and Costa up front hardly pedestrian players who played a slow measured game like we do.

The whole club is still a shambles if we are honest. WTF gives with the transfer policy? Let the best striker in the Premier League go to our rivals, push it through quick as anything without any haggling and replace with fresh air. Look how Liverpool dealt with Barcelona!! We didn't need to let Lukaku go so easily did we? We should of kept him untill January or untill we replaced him.

We still allow the Moyes mentality to thrive at the club regardless of personal. I said it last season Koeman is a fraud and we will do nothing with him in charge. Just look at Davy Klaassen – an absolute joke signing but speaks volumes about our manager.

We lack pace, guile, physicality and have old players in all the wrong areas of the pitch. It's embarrassing to see how pathetic we are during games. Last season's away form should've been a red light to us all but all we have done is allow our only goal threat to leave... I can't see how it improves with Big Ron at the helm.

It's that bad, I would take Sam Allardyce tomorrow just to save us from disaster. Go and get Benteke from Palace as well. Poor man's Lukaku but at least he would offer an outlet and get a few goals... Season's over and it's still August?

Already this season, the manager has made some strange decisions and we are only a few games in. I'm not sure he knows how he wants us to play.

No disgrace in defeat but not positively trying for 70 mins, won't win us anything, and is jot good enough.

Keep a hope for some nice surprises in the final days of the transfer window, and the players bounce back for Spurs.

I'm deadly serious. I've got bets that neither manager will win the league at their current clubs. At their best, both serve up very entertaining football that I enjoy watching, but they both break players that wilt towards the end of the season.

Conte's teams have gears, they know when to slow it up and hunker down for a one-nil. They know when to go for it and batter teams. He has strong, fast, exciting players, but the way they play uses their energy better and keeps them fresher through the season.

Doesn't mean I like them more, I just think that style of play can be good to watch, while being more conducive to a 38-game season. For me, that's a better yardstick.

The link-up play, passing, movement, lots of little triangles all over the pitch, was sublime; only thing was, we couldn't put the ball in the net. Remember us having something along the lines of 26 shots away game, can't remember who, but that wasn't the only one. Did we batter Fulham only for them to score with the last kick?

Point being TGT reverted to type, maybe Ferguson had some input (conspiracy theory there) I don't know, but it showed if he had allowed himself to..... fuck him treacherous ginger twat.

You see my point.

Okay, so the fixtures weren't in our favour over the last 6 days and we had a few injured suspended or not 100%.

However, it was lacklustre. And that's being fair. The back 5 barely reached the half way line and the 3 midfielders didn't fair much better. There was no outlet till Calvert-Lewin came on.

Moshiri, get Ross Barkley signed up.

I don't think Lukaku would have made a difference to us today, and it is exactly this type of team performance that made his mind up he wanted away.

Given the money paying paid for proven players and at just 24 years old I'm disappointed we didn't get more money for our former striker.

£75 million with possible add on's of #163;15 million is looking a bargain!

What will we pay for a proven striker, I wonder?

We have no width, no pace, and Mahrez is someone we were crying out for. We still need a striker, left-sided centre-back, and left-back. At least he can't single out Barkley for today.

We have paid £45m for Sigurdsson, play him down the middle as a No 10 – playing him as a left mid is a total waste.

We also need a striker and some quality out wide. Anyone expecting a win was a fool – this highlights the dropping of 2 points against Man City last week.

That excuse just isn't going to cut it, sorry. Liverpool have played home and away in Europe and are off to a flier, all while having their best player sitting and possibly leaving. They crushed Arsenal 4-0 today. These players are flying charter jets, not sitting coach.

I feel for Tom today because he was just overrun in midfield. He needed help, he didn't need to be replaced by Besic. It was clear after the first 10 minutes the team had been set up wrong as Chelsea were just cutting through us like butter with pace. Something we are totally lacking which is going to be a huge limitation for this team. He should've reverted to a back 4 and provided some help for Tom.

I have said this before but I just do not know where Sigurdsson is going to play or fit into this team. He is not a winger or a wide player. He needs to play behind the striker but we have Rooney playing in that position as well as Ross. Maybe he will rotate them but that seems a big waste of £45M. I am not saying he is a bad player it is just he needs to be played in his regular position.

After 10 minutes I would have taken Williams off and brought Lennon or Besic on and pushed Sigurdsson up front to help Sandro as he was totally anonymous.

I am also worried that Koeman is pissing off so many of the players with his style of management and tactics. Looks like Mirallas will now follow Ross out of the door. Maybe he will replace Mirallas with some more quality like Klaassen!!!

I always try and find some positives in every game but I'm scratching my head, and eyes, to find anything to hold onto right now.

My only hope is that they were genuinely tired and couldn't get out of 1st gear but we are still only in August. God help when we are deep into December if that's the case when games come thick and thin.

It seems to me that the players were sent out to try and keep the score down, nothing more. Thankfully, Chelsea didn't feel the need to completely humiliate us otherwise it could've been even more damaging.

The buck stops with the manager imo. These are young, fit, highly paid professionals so there's no excuse for producing such a feeble, spineless performance.

Only Pickford, Holgate, Besic, Rooney and Calvert-Lewin came out of that shambles with any credit.

I simply don't see him adapting of learning. Time is running out.

Away to the Champions:- who honestly thought that we were going to trounce them? Or even turn up? Away to City. Within ten minutes of a win. I'd have taken that at 5 to 8 on Monday, wouldn't you?

Okay, we were truly dreadful today and the players should reimburse the hardy souls who made the trip but let's see where we are at Christmas before we lynch Koeman. And believe me, I am NOT happy with what I've witnessed this season so far.

"But he wanted to go" ... So what? So does Coutinho and, through the evil across the park playing on Barcelona's desperation, they will get over a 𧴜 million for him. And we couldn't wait a bit to play Man Utd and Chelsea off against each other?

Fuck me, if Liverpool get 㿨 million, we have been ripped off. Their most subbed player going for 𧴜 million plus. Words fail me. They are blessed.

These "productivity" players need to get a grip because, since the last ten games of last season, we do not threaten the goal at all. Cech could have read a book today.

I agree Christy, he's better than that troglodyte, Williams.

I still wonder what team is going to let their best player come to us, regardless of the fee, with only 4 days before the close of the window, leaving very little time to replace them.

Okay, if you think he is a defensive manager that's fine. But to label him coward is out of all context.

For me, we caved in because Moshiri and Kenwright needed the money. A sell-before-we-buy club we most definetly are at the moment.

Oliver (#224), I see why the club spent before Lukaku left to be fair. We would have been out-priced for everyone if we had sold him first and I don't or can't believe yet we won't spend before the deadline...

We needed players in before he left. Most probably came from that overdraft they struck.

Like all matters in sport, none of it bears comparison with major issues but I don't want to see my team afraid of opponents and giving up before they've started. I think that's a fair definition of cowardice in a sporting context, which is the only context available to us on this forum.

Let's not put today down to selling Lukaku. His goal ratio against the top four on their turf is poor at best. He wanted to go and 㿷 million up front is good business.

Koeman must stress to the board a striker must be brought in. We certainly have the midfielders to supply them.

Put today behind us and move on!!

Accuse them of not gaming a go, not prepared to put a foot in by all means.

A big accusation to call any man a coward.

Each more inspid, and ghoulish than the next.

City was bad, but he (Koeman) did have a plan, using DCL and a press. The sending off throwing him for a Burton.

Spilt was City's orfaned brother, ordinary laboured and stilted against yet more European farmers. Only the most astonishing un-Everton thing salvaged a lame effort.

The nastiest, most unforgivable attempt was left for today. Going back to the scene of Koeman's biggest crime last season, he repeated the trick with the added bonus of all but a completely new team but the same spirit of dis-adventure.

Two more games against the division's finest and a Europa League game in an 8-day stretch. The manager offers me nothing the results will be any different, that is damning and very sad.

A striker of some repute is essential.

As you can tell I'm pissed off. My opinion of the manager has not changed. Ron must go. Who will replace him... Haven't a clue.

We all could see three at the back against the mighty Stoke did not work, considering we have two speed merchants, Jags and Williams.

I despair of these dinosaurs we're fielding at the back. It's a sad indictment that, of the back six today,Pickford is the best distributor with his feet. And these lads play football every single day for a living. Appalling.

Don't know how many times we saw Rooney (who looked like he cared) remonstrating with the ref for a supposed injustice whilst Jags as captain does the cube root of fuck all. Captain! Really? Nice guys don't make good captains these days.

I really don't know what our formula, style or identity as a team is. Worried and concerned.

We don't move as a team. Soon as we try to, we lose possession. There's no movement up front. I'm guessing with Lukaku gone Mirallas might've thought he'd be given a chance up front...

We now look a little clueless... there is no one controlling games... It's poor... Our tactics are very Moyes like. I'm scared what's happened!!!

I have not been as impressed by Keane in the last few games as I hoped I would be. On one occasion in the second half Fabregas waltzed around him as though he was a statue. Hopefully he will settle down as he becomes familiar with his new team mates.

That will not be made easier if Koeman persists in deploying players in roles to which they are unsuited. Holgate is first and foremost a defender better suited to playing as a third centre back than as a wing back. In the absence of Seamus, Martina with his ability to cross a ball, is better suited to the wing back role.

Everything from the defensive mindset, backs-to-the-wall tactics, no fight, no passion (except a little from Rooney) and of course no shots on target. Koeman deserves a lot of stick for what went on today and can't defend anything he did after that gutless showing.

He doesn't seem to be learning either. If we concede first, it's game over and easy street for the opposition. Chelsea didn't even break into a sweat, especially the second half.

The last two games have also showed us just how far behind the top teams we are, and 7th is best we can hope for. Again.

I'm a patient man, looks like it's going to pushed to the limit this season.

My concern is the basics of team control, organisation, stewardardship, captainship, management and the Nev, Ratters, Reidy, Brace, Sharp, Watson, and Sheidy stewardship – leadership on the park, today, is nowhere to be seen.

No surprise today but the basics are lacking in terms of game management.

Hope eternal as in life, but this season is gonna be very tough.

Seriously though, it's three games in, but the holes in Ronald's tactics are huge.

For a long time now, all I see is Baines picking the ball up at the halfway line and stopping and turning to play it back, time after time.

Even on the edge of the opposition's box, we end up playing it back to the half-way line. No ideas at all, and movement off the ball is ridiculous.

Koeman's tactics are dire!

There is only room for 11 on the pitch, the keeper takes one of those, so 10. Koeman then wants to use 3 center backs. So down to 7 left. He then plays with 2 more defenders as full backs (and I will not call them wingbacks because they do nothing going forward). So down to 5 spots left.

He then will always play with Gana and Schneiderlin if healthy and available as holding midfielders. So down to 3 spots left. So far, no players offering any distribution in attack. So who takes up those last 3 spots? Rooney is going to play. Gilfy I would imagine. And for now Sandro. So replace Sandro with Costa and we still aren't offering any support in attack, still set up ultra defensive with our forward outnumbered and far too many players who are primarily out there to defend and break up play.

Conte plays 3 at the back as opposed to our 5, and he uses actual wingers as his wing backs/ full backs. He converted Moses from a forward to winger, primarily there to attack. Same with Alonso, he's there to get forward and attack. He lets his 3 defenders worry about defense, knowing most teams only use one striker. That allows one defender to get forward in attack when they want, still having 2 back to worry about the opposition. And Kante is in the middle of the park stopping the opposition from hitting them on the break.

Koeman sets out with mostly defenders. Conte sets out with mostly attackers. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the difference and predict the result 99/100 times.

Davies isn't the same player as last season and I'd drop him back to the U23s and bring in someone else (Walsh?).

Sandro isn't ready – impact sub only for now.

Rooney can't play every minute – he looks knackered.

We need pace in our team and fast. 😉

Wrong players in the wrong positions, wrong team shape, players visibly reluctant to move/run forward. Players looking edgy and unsure – players that we have seen perform better. Football basics deserting players. Previous attacking players marginalized. Tom Davies worryingly, appears to be going backwards.

Perhaps worst of all, no team spirit, no belief, no power, no presence... just no feel of Everton.

It's the manager.

Koeman is a poor tactician. He cannot help the players he has to become better so he will keep calling for more money to resolve his inadequate coaching methods.

Sick of this hoof ball and poor passing ability from pros; if the training, tactics and awareness in games can't be improved, then people have to be moved on.

There were some mitigating circumstances such as 3 tough games in a week and missing key personnel, oh and Chelsea being an absolutely quality team.

But I've defended Koeman up to yesterday as I could understand some of things he's done, even though they were wrong in hindsight. But this game? Everything about it was daft. And he doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes. We rightfully vilified that Spanish twat for doing the same stupid things; Koeman is going the same way. Too stubborn and limited in his approach. Safety first and hopefully pinch a goal. It's so predictable.

If it carries on like this, lots of fans are going to turn. I predicted we'd be in the bottom 5 after Man Utd before the season kicked off and the pressure will be firmly on Koeman as a result. Doesn't look like it's going to be far off.

Baines and Holgate are afraid to push up as they have their defensive duties to consider and there is no-one in front or behind to drop in and cover,

Our defensive midfielders are just that and, with the exception of Gueye, do not venture over the halfway line.

It is an absolute disgrace that an Everton side does not register one shot on target over 90 minutes.

We seem to think its okay if we play keep ball between the centre-backs and the goalkeeper.

Also very concerned that Keane seems to have gone off the boil and Pickford's distribution has gone awry. I just hope there is no unrest in the dressing room again.

Perhaps we could be as low as bottom five after this phase as you say. That in itself might not be the end of the world, if there was anything to suggest improvement, any growth, development. That yesterday was simply not good enough – total surrender.

I am not very disappointed as I expected this outcome very much but this is where Koeman is to be judged – right after the Europa League game – to see how they perform. Now how he reacts in the next 2 games will say it all.

I am optimistic as I saw positives in that loss. Sigurdsson's pin-point crosses which were terribly missing last season from our games which never cleared the first man. Holgate's movement up and down the field.

The last 10 mins a complete contrast to first 80 mins and we saw what this team can do if they have a real go at other teams, even the likes of Williams and Gueye can have a go at the goal. Besic needs to play more, he can only improve the side with his aggression, so what if he is risky and might get a red, won't handicap us more than when we are defending with ten men.

Looking at Arsenal, it is top 5 sides this season rather than 6.So the least possible position we can achieve is 6th and Spurs are not that convincing at Wembley. We should beat them next game to stay in top 4 contention.

I am not a fan of Koeman and never will be after his disaster at Valencia but I feel we've got the players who can do the job and get us into top 5 or 4.

‌

If we are to compete, let's go forward with purpose; we need creative runners from midfield and not to lose position. Better performance required – one that is brave and when we lose we know it was our best – not just going onto the field to occupy but to play with all our hearts... sad.

Some great signings but I can see a clear-out of a lot of the new dross happening soon. As for Besic, for me he wouldn't lace McCarthy's boots.

I suspect the way Walsh was talking at the Europa League draw and the public statements from Koeman we have a couple lined up madeuprumourville.com haven't heard about. Whether we'll be happy with them and they won't be last minute pathetic loan signings is another matter.

That's also based on the fact that to go through the season with what we have would be madness and will probably ensure Koeman getting sacked by Christmas.

When Man City only managed to score with one of the many chances they created, it was called a "defensive masterclass" on here – cringe worthy... but when Chelsea convert two of the many chances they created... it's shite?

Fact is – despite his insistence on permanently having ten men behind the ball, the better teams can still go through us like a fat kid through candy floss.

I tell you what does merit the term though. Anyone who repeatedly uses the derogatory term "coward" on the Internet to describe a football manager. But refrains from calling him a coward when meeting him in person.

Still cringe-worthy, you may not have noticed but Man City missed chance after chance. That it was only one was more down to their poor finishing than any great defending.

As for yesterday's game, having been turned over in front of their home fans on opening day, possibly thinking it was an 'easy' game, Chelsea were not in the mood for 2 successive defeats.

Throw in the fact Koeman decides to play two defensive midfielders who are no better than Lee Carsley or McCarthy and it's no wonder we can't keep the ball or move it through midfield quickly.

Barkley must play central midfield, with Rooney or Klaassen at No 10 and only one defensive midfielder, a world class, big strong ball-playing centre-back has to be bought to play with Jagielka.

And we obviously need a striker and a winger (unless he's waiting for Bolasie to get fit).

Yesterday, the defenders were more static, as if Chelsea's varied pace fooled them more. Or perhaps they were just knackered.

Like I said earlier in this thread, Koeman's like Martinez, talks about one kind of football, then has his team play a different way on the pitch.

In general working life, is there anything worse than a manager who can't explain what they want?

I hope it gels together soon, for all our sakes.

But remember a lot of us were hoping to get De Boer in as the new manager last year? Look at his record with Inter and now Palace!

Koeman may not be a top manager but it is a step forward for sure.

'Getting bodies in' is the only vision and accommodating those bodies is a purely academic exercise. Just like his immediate predecessor, he says one thing and does another although his version of the game lacks even the 'beautiful dreams' of the Catalan.

Another Moyes? Not within a mile of him!

A broken clock is right twice a day.

The few so-called miserable cynics who were airing concerns about his tactics and team selection appear to be vindicated after a few games into the season when we have been both dour and shite, just as we were for much of last season.

We sold Rom and Gerri (I know he is shite but he is playing all for Barca?) and Barkely is next; perhaps we will sign another all energy midfielder who can't go forward. Reality is we got murdered yesterday and got away with murder last Monday evening, Man City deserved to beat us with 10 men.

Our lack of ambition is appalling. Anyone who thinks we are any better off with Koeman than Martinez is delusional IMO particularly given the money Koeman has had.

The away games at Man City and Chelsea are the hardest games of the season ,against the richest clubs in the league. They are the favs for winning the league itself and among the top 6 for winning the Champions League. We had to play them on their own patch 6 days after each other with a team that is bedding in. Our biggest signing has had no pre-season.

On top of this we had a tough match in Croatia sandwiched in between. Give the manager and team a break. Give them some time to gel. The younger lads will need longer still.

Justified criticism lies with the boards failure to procure a top senior striker to replace Lukaku. Failure to get the right man will see us struggle and the board will be heavily blamed. Even this can still be rectified and if the new signing is good enough I would say we can be stronger than last season, top 6 win a trophy material.

It is far too early to be chronically morbid . We need to keep our blue peckers well and truly upright.

Sit back and see what the Board and Steve Walsh come up with. Our success this season depends on it.

Calvert-Lewin won every header yesterday but he was always on his tod. Lukaku was hopeless at the big 4/6 so it isn't just about replacing him. We need an injection of pace and the ability to get the ball past the halfway line without giving it away.

Nice try. And Koeman still fucked up big time last night.

Some may think that the club can't see the problems or even more strangely that they know better but they are wrong on both counts. Us Happy Clappers will have our say when the club, given time, has failed to deliver sustainable improvement even with strong financial backing. As we are in a massive majority among fans, our say will have far more influence than the current voices in the wilderness.

My opinion at the moment is that Koeman is doing very badly and longer term will prove to have been a poor choice. I believe that, in the main, our buys have been bad and made with the result of developing a side with no heart or soul. Am I going to adopt irrational negativity over this? No, I'm going to give my support to the club until such a time as the current phase of the project has been shown to have failed. It's unlikely that this will be before the end of this season with a progress report possible in the New Year.

He moans about 3 games in six days. If Everton want to be in the 'Elite' then that's what we have to do. Moaning about not having a big enough squad is laughable when it comes from the mouth of the only man on the planet that can expand our squad.

While he was bleating on TV, another club from across the park, who had also played 3 games in a week, were destroying Arsenal with an attacking team.

Koeman is not the man to take us forward, we have money to spend and he can't make his mind up as to who to sign.

Young players get dropped after great performances (Moyes-style). if Koeman is finding it too hard to deal with all this he can walk away with a few million stuffed in his back pocket.

He continues to pack the midfield with crab-like one-dimensional defensive midfielders when we are crying out for a dynamic attacking engine room. He pushes players who need to play up top out into isolation in wide areas when we're crying out for pace on the wing. And he lets virtually our only source of goals leave without having an adequate replacement lined up.

Of course, none of this is the manager's fault... the fact we can't retain possession of the ball, put three passes together or create any goal scoring opportunities has nothing to do with the manager's formations, tactics or coaching!

I'll have to stop these knee-jerk reactions, they've been happening since we wasted almost 㿊m on Bolasie. Let's give Big Ron more time and more money – he's sure to come good.

I put little credence on managerial ability as far as playing provenance goes, because speed of thought and anticipation are instinctive, and nigh on impossible to teach. So whilst Ron was undoubtedly a leading exponent of his particular art, that does not necessarily transfer into management. Indeed many, if not most, of the top managers around have not achieved playing greatness and conversely many of the top players have proved average at best when it comes to management.

One noticeable difference which has nothing to do with playing history that I have noticed and seems to be prevalent with our recent managers is (the lack of) touch-line "presence".

I know he's a total knob but Klopp, Conte, Jose, Guardiola, Pulis (another knob), even Wenger before he took to his carpet slippers, are all like having an extra man on the pitch. I wish we could see a bit more excitement and passion from Ron – or is it that he just doesn't feel that passion yet? Or is he incapable of it?

At least he's still talking about 'we' and 'us' rather than Everton in the third person, but when and if he leaves either at the end of his contract, later if things go well, or sooner if not then I would like to see some spark on the touchline from his successor.

I'm not joining the ranks of those condemning the man yet, but would like to have seen a bit more by now to improve my optimism. I remain on the fence so far as Sigurdsson goes – so much time and energy put into that piece of business – and as everyone agrees the (evident) lack of pursuit of a striker is worrying. I hope the pursuit of Sigurdsson did not distract us away from that.

Of the credible options available on the rumours pages it looks like Remy, Vardy, Llorente and Origi (loan to Everton? - no chance) seem to be all that may be available in the next few days. None of them light my dials up tbh so I hope to be pleasantly surprised and will be watching the transfers news closely over the next few days.

Shame Ever Banega is not available for a midfield berth (picked us apart re season) and up front? ... Come back, Rom, all is forgiven.

I have no doubt we've been pursuing strikers for months. In the meantime, the 'shit' striker who was so easy to replace is top of the scoring charts.

But I am trying to put things in perspective. Yes we are a team in transition, and yes we need to deal with a heavily congested fixture list if we are to compete on the level that the fans and management want. But, it is still August, we have 7 new first team players to bed in, some not match fit or up to the speed of the English game. The 2 players with injuries from our 7 signings were the ones who hadn't played in England before. Coincidence? Probably not. It is still August and we still have some of the transfer window left. We also don't know what U23s will surprise us this year. Let's face it, a year ago the likes of Holgate, Lewin and indeed Davies hadn't had hardly any first team experience.

The bigger picture, Koeman took over a woeful side, unfit and unmotivated. He turned an 11th place finish into a 7th place finish with the biggest turn around of points outside of the champions, the cup runs were poor to say the least, but there was definite tangible progress in his first season, plus a real willingness to play the youth. Many slagged him off for playing Lewin, but it seems to have worked out okay thus far. I will reserve judgement until the new year when the players have bedded in and things will have taken shape. The international break is timely and we should have Klassen back, plus a fitter Sandro and a more match-fit Sigurdsson. On top of that, Schneiderlin will be back too. As I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, we cannot be playing Baines, Rooney, Jagielka and Williams 2 or 3 times a week, it is counterproductive. It will be interesting as to how things shape up in that department.

Overall, 7 games, 4 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss to the champions away, all in the space of a month, plus Euro league qualification. Looking at it like that, it doesn't paint such a bad picture. I want more free flowing football and attack-mindedness, hopefully when all gels , we may get that, but we may not . Only time will tell.

We played slow, narrow and without a clue. We can't blame the fixture congestion because we have been aware of this for quite a while. We should have had a squad capable of meeting that requirement.

I have bee a supporter of RK but he needs to start earning his cash and showing us something.

I did see the whole game and you are 100% on the money. I wouldn't argue with what you have said. I am just trying to put a bit of perspective into things and look at the bigger picture so to speak. As said, I will reserve judgement on Koeman as a manager until the New Year.

Early season is telling us that Arsenal could struggle and Spurs also are not pulling up any trees at Wembley. Two home wins and two away draws to those two teams would mean they will have dropped five points to us.

Last Monday we drew at Man City and on Thursday by drawing we progressed in the Europa League to the group stages. I am sure this would of been paramount in Koeman's eyes and anything gained yesterday would have been a bonus. Travelling tiredness and the heat we played in in the last two matches looked to have taken their toll.

He passed it up. Swerved it.

Stop making excuses when we have every right to expect more. Koeman's said it, Moshiri has provided the funds and vision, players are better, based on his salary so is the manager. 👀

Last week is just a taster of our unrelenting schedule between now and Xmas.

Look over the park, Hoffenhiem, Palace, Hoffenhiem, Arsenal in the same time period. 4wins, loads of goals.

Boss attack, crappy defence. Mmm.
Kill the game first mentality, then shut the shop up is what we need.

Honestly look at Koeman, and what he says. Do you see an attacking bone in the fellas body?

That's BS. The RS had a match midweek, and they crushed Arsenal. They will never set up to hope the other team doesn't beat them, as Koeman has done. They take the fight to the opposition, they impose their will on the opposition. Sometimes they'll get beat. But they don't just hope to get out without giving up a goal. If they were at City, with a 1-0 lead and up a man, not in a million years would City have dominated the second half, having all possession. Be real.

Do you ever stop and think about what you are saying ? Just look at your posts over the past 24 hours

Martin Mason - "There is a myth amongst the most negative that the rest somehow accept mediocrity.

Martin Mason - "I see nothing but positives" - goes on to list them

Martin Mason - "You have no qualification to criticise a professional like Koeman"

Martin Mason - "My opinion is that Koeman is doing very badly and longer term will prove to be a poor choice"

Martin Mason - "Some think the club cant see problems or even more strangely, that they know better"

Marin Mason - "I believe in the main our buys have been bad and made with the result of developing a side with no heart or soul"

Then comes the classic - "Am I going to adopt an irrational negativity over this ?

You must be the worst exponent of the verbal hokey cokey I have ever come across. You have no idea you are contradicting yourself with virtually every sentence.

"We are in a massive majority amongst fans" . .Well you certainly are ! In you desperate attempts to take the high moral ground you're trying to represent all sides of the house.

Sorry I don't mind anyone nailing their colours, nor do I object to people sitting cautiously on the fence , but you my old china plate, have more faces than Arya Stark

The point is made in part by David, by striking a balance between defence and attack you manange the work load for your team. In both the games you cite, we progressively got more exhausted because we didn't have the ball. It is simple keep the ball use less energy.

Particualry pertinient in the City game, having the ball against ten men no matter how good they are is key to conserving your energy and depeleting theirs. We were criminal with the ball in all three games.

If you give the opposition the ball and sit back, three games in a row then which team looks more tired? We did. We looked like we had nothing left, yet Koeman and his tweeting Kluitenburg are famed for their importance of fitness.

Counter that with Liverpool, essentially a better balance between attack/defence in possession allows them to manage the workload better.

The lack of offensive posture has so many knock'ons to the team dynamic.

He had nothing to worry even if he went missing in half the games for us.At Man Utd,he knows that Mourinho won't hesitate dropping him again like he did at Chelsea.

I agree with you that he will be scoring a lot as he will be getting services from every position unlike the hoofball service he got with us.But like I said I will reserve my judgement on him for future.Next up a cold rainy night in Stoke.

Thats the spirit mate.

Poor form to start the Pink Floyd banter then get posts deleted by admin when folk come back with half decent posts in the same vein.

Sometimes I go and talk Blues in pub for some light relief. Some have better perspective after 10 pints !

Next you'll begin a para ”My opinion at the moment "

Or some aging hippies and lackadaisical miscreant blues may adopt the "Post what you think on any given day , Why the fuck should I give a flying shite" attitude.

Shame on the latter .

Having watched him on the internet playing for the U23s, he has the pace and ability to drag players around. He can also finish as he proved in that game.

Ross Barkley will never play for the club again; it's clear Koeman doesn't fancy him.

And Kevin Mirallas... I'm lost for any logical explanation of why he's being treated like a dog! Can anyone explain as I cant!!!