Meek surrender to silky Spurs

Rooney, Sandro and Klaasen

Baines deserves a win, excellent player for the Blues.

Easier to concentrate on beating whatever is in front of us.

Why has the Tottenham "badge" got a cockerel on a basketball? No football I've ever seen looks like that?

One positive for me is Klaassen. He looks a very smart player with neat touches, but I fear we don't have the quality around him for him to be effective.

First, not quick enough to take a couple of backward steps.

Second was a classic bad goalkeeping error – palming it out straight in front of him, gifting it to them.

Prediction: 0-4

Liverpool being beaten is no compensation as far as I am concerned.

It's like a fucking practice match for Spurs!!! I know we've not got a top striker but it's looking like we haven't got a top defender either.

Williams had 2 intense international games and looks off it. Slow and predictable here and a mess at the back. All the best kids are in the Championship, so we have to rely on Martina and Baines (who has been one of the few who have played well though).

Koeman only plays one way. Shocking from the manager today.

It's always a bad sign when the manager starts feuding with the players. He bought a bunch of overpriced average players in the summer and failed to address the striker position. Yet the only striker we have is either started out of position or not started at all.

Koeman had better start livening up or his job will definitely be on the line, not to mention that of his brother and Walsh's as well.

Atalanta on Thursday night. Better show a lot more then or the thin ice Koeman is skating on will start to crack.

So far, as I type this, we have been handed our arse in two consecutive games. No way you can have top 6 never mind top 4 aspirations.

We have been done by a Spurs team that spent less than they sold this summer. Their 3 best players – Alli: cost £5m and a prodigy who still needed to be developed when he first arrived; Kane brought through the youth ranks; Eriksen from Ajax had no Premier League experience and was bought with the Bale money, if I remember correctly.

It is as much about coaching and tactics as it is about spending big money – Koeman needs to take note.

Daniel Levy has never been afraid to sack under-performing managers and prise away good ones, as he has done with Pochettino. If I recall, he replaced Redknapp who had just missed out on a top 4 spot.

As far as Koeman is concerned, I can only hope that the penny will drop on playing 2 defensive midfielders at home. Something he and Martinez persisted with for far too long.

The club's inability to sign a forward will cost us dear this season. We're very lucky not to lose by a much larger margin. How can we spend so much money and look so dreadful?

So we're going to be pushing Spurs this season, are we? Only if their coach breaks down.

Who will Koeman scapegoat today? That was men against girls.

Didn't think anything could be worse than Chelsea.

I was wrong!

Make no mistake: on the last two showings, we are in serious trouble.

We need pace throughout the team and quick, or this could be a really painful season, especially with the Europa League excuse ready to be peddled.

We are back to square one again... this club never progresses, we just keep on plodding along... shit, shit, shit.

Absolutely clueless tactician and will go on throwing money away to sort his own weakness.

I would not play Schneiderlin, Williams or Martina again. Fucking awful.

Hopefully things will pick up after our crazily tough opening to the season.

I suppose the team 'has to gel', to quote our benefactor, but I fail to see what it is going to gel around.

All right, off to Bergamo now. They say it's a nice city. Perhaps my friends and I will gel with the place.

It's time to break out of this average and negative style and play a more offensive, attacking team. I want to see us on the front foot for once! Or is that asking too much?

The most one-sided game I've seen for a long time. Let's be fair here, we got off lightly; it could've and should've been 7 or 8. As soon as the first goal went in, you could see the fight drain out of them.

I warned on here a long time ago that, to give this clown a massive war chest would be folly and look what's happened. He's bought ordinary players at extortionate prices: Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin to name but three...

And please don't give me the "time to gel" line because it wont wash. No pace, no pattern, no shape; we wouldn't score in the Grafton with a tenner sticking out of our ears.

He fucking knew Lukaku was away and hasn't addressed it. Criminal shockingly bad management, we are going to struggle badly for goals... did we actually have a shot on target today because I can't remember one. A season of struggle awaits because Koeman himself doesn't know what his best team is; if that's the case, then we really are in trouble.

Oh and while I'm on, what is his obsession with playing two holding midfielders? It doesn't work. Never has, never will – the pair of them haven't got a forward nerve in their body. Get the ball and turn backwards all the time.

Not a prayer Koeman will get binned – not even if were languishing by Christmas because, by all accounts, Moshiri went all out to get him. What a bad move that's looking tonight. Worried? Too right I am!

Koeman – can't spot a player, can't pick a system, can't motivate a team, can't manage EFC

Williams playing – enough said

Martina, who was hung out to dry by the system, is awful

Two defensive midfielders who contribute nothing.

Two full backs who continually tuck in and leave acres of space

Sigurdssonout on left wing? 㿙m ?? Seriously??
Sandro is a Championship level player – as is Klaassen.

No centre-forward
No width
No pace
No idea

You don't win games without scoring and you can't score if you don't fucking hit the target. What is it about us that makes us allergic to shooting at goal? Again, it's as obvious as day and night that we don't have pace and width on the flanks. We cannot rely on our full-backs to provide this so need some wide midfielders, which we don't play!

It's getting a bit ridiculous and we now have two very tough away games coming up. Can't imagine moral is high in the camp, especially as the club tried to shift Barkley, Mirallas and Niasse during the transfer window. September looks like it could be a real struggle.

Too early to say the word 'crisis' but imo something isn't right behind the scenes. Whether that's down to the owners, manager or certain players, I can't say.

Wouldn't be surprised if Rooney's £150k wage and being welcomed back like the prodigal son didn't cause some resentment in certain members of the squad. Never mind his off-pitch antics.

All-in-all, a shit show with no clear solutions.

I can't wait for Coleman and Bolasie to come back!

Today, we made Spurs look like world-beaters. I found myself applauding after we put 3 passes together, before inevitably losing possession.

We are seriously lacking in the centre-back position. Williams and Jagielka are finished. (I cannot understand why we didn't go after Harry Maguire.)

We have no dominance, pace or control in midfield. No target man up front. I believe Ronald Koeman lacks any tactical understanding of the game as a manager, and should be sacked immediately.

We will not improve, and the Chelsea and Spurs games are an indication of how our season will deteriorate. I dread our next 2 games.

Chop the system, change the system but, if we continue to play with so little width, then we are going to be in serious trouble very soon.

Klaassen is a very clever footballer but he's not ready for the athleticism of the Premier League at the minute, and Schneiderlin was really poor. We have him tidying up, to give it to the fullbacks, who have nobody to play with, it's horrible.

Tactics, formations, we all have our personal favourites but 4-3-3 was embarrassing today. We were wide open, and had no width to either penetrate, or stop them penetrating us, and if we don't get back to basics then we're in trouble.

I'm watching Koeman's interview right now and he looks like someone preparing to start to defend his position. So he should.

We'll be bottom 6 at Christmas.

The only time we have played well so far was the Europa League home game when we had Lookman and Mirallas playing wide.

If we can see it, why can't Ron?

Jagielka all day long for me. Why on earth Lookman never seems to get a chance is a real mystery. Today we seemed to be lumping the ball forward to Sandro as target maxbb, which he clearly is not.

Barkley hasn't been replaced???

Really??? I think you'll find he's been replaced about four times... so much so that they'll be five Number 10s vying for one spot when he returns from injury. Either that, or a load of expensive new additions played out of position.

A real shame Koeman and Walsh didn't address the wide areas in midfield and defence. And a striker.

There is no balance to his teams and we need Coleman and Bolasie back asap but, even then, can we trust him to play them in the right system?

At the moment he appears to be failing in his job to manage and coach the team. Why?????

This board must be thick as two short planks. They would have known Lukaku was going months ago. You clearly have an up-and-coming problem, therefore your number one priority is bringing a solution to that problem, so you address other less leaking holes and don't address the one glaring hole. Idiots, absolute idiots the lot of them.

I knew from the moment the club brought back Rooney, nothing much has changed. Any club going forward looking to win silverware and challenge the top six does not acquire a washed-up old Rooney. Everton Football Club is charity case, still harbouring old sentiments which is why they will never progress forward any time soon.

Koeman, like many managers, doesn't trust youth, and especially home-grown youth (even Davies is now a sub).

I've never see a player, Trippier, have so much time and space in all my life. Hoped Koeman would do something about it, nope tactically poor.

We've bought some very lightweight players in Klaassen and Sandro who contribute little. Defensively Williams is easily beaten, not lived up to expectations.

Sad day. Lot of players and tactics found out today.

"We were fucking Shiite Amit. What's your point? "

Do try and read posts you intend to slag off Daniel. I agree we were shite. Clue was in the phrase "unforgivable performance" and "having our arses handed to us".

"Your going on as if Everton have been throwing all sorts of money at it. We haven't and it shows."

All I can say to that statement is it is nonsense. We spent near enough 𧵎m big ones this summer – 4th or 5th most in the league. Did you want us to top the spending league? Was that how much money it would have taken to make us compete for the top 4? Should we have pissed away cash on more no 10s?

Surely the problem was not how much, but who we bought and in which position. Not buying a proper striker to replace Rom – criminal.

That is what "fucking shows".

I made a statement pre-season to the effect, that he is probably the worst player I have seen in 50 years in that, or any position, well, I stand by that. All their goals came from that side and the gaping hole left by his inept defending and positioning, pulling Keane out of position.

It was glaringly obvious, and he makes three subs and leaves him on, I despair honestly.

Just watching the Stoke v Man Utd game, how did we beat Stoke?

Something drastic has to happen, like at Chelsea, you never like to be beaten, home or away, but if you have lost to bad luck, bad refereeing, or just outplayed, but put in a good shift, it is reluctantly understandable.

To just play like rank amateurs, having a bit of a casual kick around with little guile or desire, is just not acceptable at all.

Taxi!

Better make it a mini-bus.

But..

As said in many threads...you mean nothing.

Let's hope their movie works

I'm not saying Martina didn't make mistakes (though going forward he was okay, and has been okay generally in previous games). But our midfield flocked to the left side throughout the game, like a gang of schoolboys. And then, when the ball went to the overloaded right, they were then pulled there en mass and generally pulled apart.

I read the Live Forum on the way home from the game and only Frank Wade and one other could see that. All around me in Upper Bullens were screaming at Koeman about it. The fact that Koeman, the bench, and the players could not see that or did not respond to it is criminal. Just watch the first half hour, for example.

Not the only mistake today but that's my two penneth.

And if you think the board are as disappointed as you are now, you're from another planet. A heart-shaped planet.

No more excuses for this fraud, this is now his team, his piss poor tactics and his mismanagement of the team. Same insipid slow crap we had to watch for most of last season. The common factor – Koeman.

𧵄 million to be the best of the also-rans

There are signs that this is a discontented team, unsure of what they are supposed to be doing, and without faith in the manager. That is a very dangerous situation indeed and I hope our unimpressive board recognises it.

We have big problems.

I said it myself, we have three No 10s, playing together. The one thing about Barkley, he was never afraid to look for the ball in our half, and go forward; Schneiderlin is not able to do it.

No shape, no pace, no width and no striker – that's what Koeman and Walsh have assembled.

I have tried to keep faith but his disregard for youth is an additional concern.

I appreciate that it is early on in the season, and no-one expected us to win today, but the way we have been playing so far has been poor and slow.

I am 33 years old, so unfortunately I have seen a lot of poor play from Everton, but this has to be some of the worst; at least the Dogs of War had passion and heart, which at the moment the current squad lack.

Everton's transfer dealings prove the theory that big transfer fees don't guarantee anything. Not only has Koeman shown that he doesn't have the ability to harness a good relationship with certain players but, it appears that his high demands can't be met by the lack of quality in the squad – which, as a result, appears to be causing friction in the camp.

I hope he can sort things out soon, because I was more impressed with Martinez's first 18 months at Everton and that wasn't enough to keep him in the job.

Yes, he is grim; no, he can't play to a fraction of Coleman's ability... but only the fans who say shit like 'good time to be an Evertonian' without anything achieved – basically the ones who won't (not can't) see the wood for the trees – will blame Martina for today.

Spurs were good but we lay down and gave it to them on a plate. They won't get an easier away day this season.

It's gonna be a hard slog this season; l hope he starts Mo and Calvert-Lewin on Thursday and Pickford aside, today could have been 8-0.

I suspect his last straw will be when we play against the 'lesser' teams, but I'm not holding my breath.

Best signing for Everton? Pay out Koeman's contract because watching Everton at present is sheer frustration and disbelief . I'm starting to believe he is really employed by Liverpool to make sure Everton never challenge them.

More like the West Brom one, it increasingly seems.

It needs leadership (don't need a captain) to sort it – Keane is looking right at that and is saying nothing to his midfield to move right. As Christy (#90) says – far too narrow, no width.

Didn't anyone think that the players we signed in a heartbeat (bar Pickford who we well overpaid for to get) without any fight from other clubs, were really class?

This summer has astounded me. From fans saying players look class before we have faced any class, to the board trying to strip the class to buy shite during a European campaign, has got me bewildered. And it's been praised and egged on by too many people.

We all think we know better than the manager, in our heart of hearts we know we don't. However, Ron is really making it difficult for the supporters to 'get behind the team... ' Goodison was emptying fast long before the final whistle.

I am concerned at what is going on behind the scenes. The rejection of attacking players, the lack of replacement for Lukaku, the isolation and humiliation of Niasse, appears to me as sheer arrogance in the way Ron deals with people and situations.

1. Walsh and Dowell and Kenny should be in the squad AND getting some game time.

2. Two holding midfielders at home shows a lack of confidence to lay forward.

3. Two holding midfielders every game and no natural wide players is never going to work. Please give up on it, Ron!

4. I think he will lose the dressing room well before Christmas if this shit keeps going on – if he hasn't lost it already.

5. Well done, Spurs, for coming to the bear pit Goodison and strutting your stuff in fearless fashion. Confident of the win beforehand, and even more confident as the game wore on. We need a manger at the helm with balls to make his players play – not some long-term project administrator.

Now, the opposition no longer care about what we have to offer – we must be a dream to defend against, very narrow and everything in front of the defense!

Lukaku often had 2 defenders focusing on him all game which created space for others. Ross could get the ball and beat 3 players, score out of nothing, play a worldly 40-yard ball.

Deulofeu, remember him? I don't believe he is good enough, but another player who offered unpredictability, a player who is now starting games for Barcelona and captained Spain U21 to win the Euros this summer. We couldn't have kept him due to his release clause, but it is clear to me we are to rigid and 'safe'. No Plan B – nevermind a Plan A!!

I cannot add where any of our goals are going to come from. A big big week for Koeman this week: two losses and surely questions will be asked.

1. My statement that it was a mistake to give Rooney a chance to continue the life he is used to.

2. That the midfield is now full of players and options that added up to nothing.

3. Our defence was a disaster.

4. I also underlined that Koeman's performance in his first season left a lot of questions about his ability to manage Everton, particularly in the case of some players (Barkley, Niasse) and some young players. I now am appalled and shocked at how right I was.

Koeman has to go before Xmas. Thank God we didn't give him a contract extension. Any longer would only add to the disastrous impact he will have on Everton Football Club. Martinez and Moyes were better; Koeman hasn't a clue.

Go back to the system that got a very average group of Everton players our highest ever position in the Premier League, please!

I thought that I would decide at Christmas if Koeman was the man. He is not. Inept, demotivated, dull, uninspired, defensive, devoid of attack, and, most appallingly spending our money on players who, frankly, are not good enough.

The performance at Chelsea was shite; this was worse. I now believe that the Koeman project might have long-term value; short-term it is dead.

Don't care if it is a new team or not, it's a fucking shite team purchased by him, if he don't sort himself, his crap team selections, his pathetic tactics, his shite substitutions, his inability to win a derby and his all round general malaise out soon then he can fuck right off and take his project with him!

There is no excuse for the way we are playing this season, whether, it's new players, injuries, missed signings, difficult start, sorry, no excuse.

I only expected us to pick up points against Stoke but I did not expect us to be so tactically inept, pedestrian and just bloody shocking. The players and management really need to have a good look at themselves.
No width, no pace, no strikers no excuses. Two defensive midfielders at home is a bloody disgrace, a Southampton reject on the starting teamsheet is unbelievable. Williams before Jagielka against Kane... woeful.

This shit needs to be sorted asap. Rather than swan off playing in Europe the bloody lot need to get things sorted for the games that really matter.

I am no expert but I would imagine you would have a decent side if you played players in their natural positions, played players who are performing well when asked – even if they are youth players, training hard and improving weaknesses and further improving strengths within the team. I don't see Koeman doing any of these.

The team looks like they have only just met each other and have no idea what to do. Very bad management.

A disappointing aspect today was the way the defence was opened up repeatedly, especially on our right flank. Of the starting line-up only Baines, Gana and Rooney appeared to be making an effort to compete with the well-oiled machine which is the current Spurs team.

The midfield partnership of Gana and Schneiderlin does not look as if it will ever work. How much we miss a player of Gareth Barry's guile was writ large.

As for our front players, Sandro, Sigurdsson, and Klaassen might as well not have been on the pitch.

We looked an absolute shambles of a team with no direction and no motivation in fact having watched most of the Premier League games so far this season, I haven't seen a worse team.

Moyes built up an organized team of solid pros with good team spirit all within a sensible pay structure. It seems that has been rapidly destroyed by his successors.

The only players playing for the shirt today were Baines and Davies and Calvert-Lewin when they came on. The rest looked disinterested or incapable.

What's supposed to happen on a footy pitch when your fullbacks tuck in? The wide men get back, to help defend, only we haven't got any wide men on the pitch.

Crazy football, and a half-decent squad is going to be in real trouble very soon if Koeman doesn't get his act together quickly.

I know you've staked a lot on Koeman but are you really satisfied with what you've seen so far?

Martina is distinctly average but, as I said on a post right after the game, he was hung out to dry today. He had no chance and not one player bar Gueye occasionally did anything to help him.

All these posters over the last few weeks saying we've signed top class players are unbelievable

I said it all along – he's signed mediocre average rubbish that no-one else wanted for top money.

Koeman out – simple!

I don't believe any manager apart from Koeman, knowing that a striker who scored 25 goals was leaving the first week in the transfer window, and eight weeks later, still found no replacement.... Astonishing.

Oh yea, he wasted a full month spending 㿙m on Sigurdsson.

Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Sandro looked lost. And Williams is truly appalling.

Jay (#115) is absolutely correct: I think we are playing the worst football in the Premier League at the moment, or certainly as bad as the bottom two sides. We should be looking for someone else to take over. Without delay.

We need someone in charge who can make coherent decisions and motivate the players. I also have big concerns about the board but that is another story and not a priority.

A final major concern is Rooney, who is going to become more and more of a burden and a complication, I am very sorry to say.

I'm afraid Schneiderlin is a poor man's Barry, he never looks up or attempts to move the ball forward quickly and is far too static. Then there's Wonky Donkey Williams... enough said; Jagielka should start every game next to Keane to mentor him.

Also there was a total lack of leadership on the pitch and nothing coming from the sidelines, shocking. I can't believe he put Davies on at half time, the kid looks lost.

Personally, I think we should get shut of Koeman asap; I have not seen anything since he's been here that says he knows what he's doing – in fact, quite the opposite, he is clueless. This disgraceful failure to bring in a striker will see us struggle big time. This is much worse than anything we witnessed under Walter Smith. Koeman Out!

But hey ho, some on here would've had him hung, drawn and quartered but he's gone now and we can't buy a goal anymore. And as for Ross, well I'd better not even go there. Some of the bile shown towards that lad on here was pathetic.

Now we trudge on hoping for a lucky goal or a bit of creative magic but who really wants that? Hard work and nonstop running is what we seem to admire in players.

A certain Harry Kane was a youngster who was believed in and look how that has ended up! The manager will now really have to show us why he was the board's number one choice.

Productivity haha.

Somethings got to give soon or we are up the Creek. Nobody minds losing if you set up to give it a go but we set up to not lose and to frustrate teams but can't even succeed at that.

This manager is a fucking disgrace and has no clue whatsoever what he is doing. But I'm afraid we can't get rid of him until his contract is up next year!

I have to agree with Brent Stephens (#84). Although I thought Martina was woeful defending, he was left to defend the Spurs left wing virtually on his own and Koeman never changed the tactics to rectify our game. I must admit, I couldn't figure out what the tactics were and I don't think the players could either.

I would hang my head in shame if I was a Lukaku critic. I would be wondering if because he was so good compared to what we had or have now, did I think he should have done everything alone.Sandro, isn't lazy though, is he? Just far worse at looking a threat than Lukaku.

If Ross is popular in the dressing room then perhaps some of the players have sided with him over the gaffer.

I don't give a monkey's if it's early days, I am calling this now – we are in serious danger with this clown in charge. Not one of those players today looked as if they understood anything of what Koeman is trying to implement, or if indeed Koeman has any understanding himself.

This is his team now and it is woeful; his obsession with fucking midfielders has left the squad unbalanced, without a cutting edge, without a credible defence, without width, pace or aggression. I am seriously seriously fucking angry!!!

I was thinking the same. I mentioned his bad management skills in another thread.

Seems like not getting a target man will cost us, but so will the lack of pace in the team.

The squad probably thought the same as the rest of us with the appalling treatment of Niasse. No player should have been treated like that.

First, let me say Koeman leaves a lot to be desired and has cocked up in so many ways; at least Roberto wanted to score goals. He will have to go before long if his tactics continue.

When we play a class side, a regular top 6 side, we get shown up almost every time by the difference in quality of the players.

Yes, a better manager will make fewer mistakes but, until we can play top 6 sides with top 6 quality players of our own, we will continue to be frustrated.

We have replaced many ordinary players with ordinary players, none wanted by the top clubs! I think I am right in saying that we have sold 𧴜m worth of players and in return spent 𧵎m on incoming players. Nowhere near enough to close the gulf in quality with the top teams.

The one player they wanted we have sold. Are we any better than last season? not to my eyes, we're not. Where the hell are our goals going to come from? Your guess is as good as mine.

Yes, we have had a very difficult start league fixture wise which is continuing next match at Man Utd but it's not looking great, whoever we face.

Pickford maybe, Keane perhaps, Baines probably, Gana definitely. Those who would not look out of place in a top 4 team. The rest... well Wayne will have to odd good game and Sigurdsson too. Koeman has replaced players with worse players. Erm... surely that's wrong?

Schneiderlin isn't a patch on Barry. Not even now! Gets rid or wants rid of Lukaku, Barry, Barkley, Mirallas and Deulofeu and replaces with Sandro, Rooney, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Klaassen. What is it that Homer Simpson says? Fuck... I mean, Doh!Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if we ever enter the field of play with a cunning plan.

Koeman's first game in charge was Spurs at home (without Lukaku) last season. I thought we were bad then... Give me Martinez and Moyes football any day of the week over this shit.

A lot of us believed in Koeman based largely on Southampton's strong showing despite losing players but is it possible this was down more to Pochettino's foundations and Les Reed's well known eye for a player? It's looking more and more like it.

I can just about stomach the results but the performances have been so insipid. No coherence. No fight. No pace. No idea. I don't think we have the best players currently but I'm pretty sure they are better than what we have seen.

I'll give it another month or so till I get my Koeman Out banners painted up but I'm edging towards Camp Larkin-Hind.

For a start we don't!! They play a different game. The biggest problem is they don't get hold of the ball and put us on the front foot. Matic and Kante... which of those two are the attack minded players?

The fact is our balance is all wrong. The shape, the pace, no striker, no width no body to cross and nobody to cross to!! Wtf – Koeman out, ffs. I haven't got over the "Lukaku will waste his career if he stays with Everton" remark. Unbalanced mess.

IMO Koeman is trying to play total football at Everton in that he is trusting footballers to play in any position, as long as he believes they are footballers. This may work in time but will not work against the champions & runners up at the moment.

Mark my words, Chelsea & Spurs will be in the top 3 this season. I'd back both teams against either of the Manc sides who are both favourites in the betting.

It is plain to see that, against top teams, this will not work at the moment but, if you believe in your system, you have to test it against them. You see who your players are in these games.

Personally, I don't agree with how Koeman is playing at the moment but, let's face it, he was expecting a top class centre-forward and, as usual, Everton let him and us down. He may stay with this plan or may ditch it and trust in the pace and youth many on ToffeeWeb want! I for one, am willing to watch and wait.

There was no pattern of play. One would struggle to identify who was there to do what. No width whatsoever, no-one to hold the ball up, no pace, no hope! I

was prepared to stay calm after the Chelsea game seeing that we had had a long trip home etc, but there was no excuse for today. If you lose three-nil and you have a go, fair enough. What was most alarming today was the fact that, try as they might have, there was zero end product. Koeman needs to get it sorted!

And yes, I think the treatment of Niasse, where Koeman ostracised him in his first week on the job, was disgraceful.

Imagine if Unsworth did come in, Niasse would be rubbing his hands together at the prospect of a start.

We have a new team so must give the benefit of the doubt. Rooney should have been dropped on principle and he was shite... he actually looked hungover. His behaviour has been poor this week; he should have been forced by EFC to apologize publicly for the clownish antics.

I can't help but feel his moving to Everton was thrust upon Koeman by a fantasist Chairman Kenwright.

I will wait until Xmas but was that hard to watch today or what!!! Good job I have no hair left!!

Williams and Martina were liabilities at the back – looked more bottom 6 than top 6 to me. I didn't understand why Jagielka didn't start given the break, and play the weaker Williams in the Europa League. It's seems an age since Moyes, but the best defence still includes Baines, Jagielka and Coleman...

Still early days, but the 㿄m for Klaassen looks like good money pissed up the wall. It seems a strange acquisition when you have a better bet in Tom Davies. Klaassen and Schneiderlin offer practically nothing. Big reputations, I hope they turn it around against weaker opponents.

Up-front we look poor. Hardly any chances created, we look in trouble when we go one nil down. Three Number 10s on the pitch, we lacked width, pace and presence. Calvert Lewin has to start upfront against Man Utd. The fact that Mirallas has acted like he has, yet still makes it on the bench speaks volumes, as does why I'd consider starting him.

Painful transition.

"Let's not go overboard yet." Right: we rolled over at Chelsea who declared at half-time; went a goal down today, albeit to a fluke, and rolled over; and everyone on here knows we will go to Old Trafford next week, go a goal down in the 1st half and roll over and let them take us up the proverbial.

All that while mustering a miserable 4 shots on target all season What a damming stat that is! We've got a frightened manager, frightened players, and worst of all, a frightened mentality when it comes to playing the sides in the top 6.

The sad part for me today was not one player in that side looked like he cared... not one. You say "don't go overboard"... Today should have been one of the worst home results in our history – that's how easy it was for Spurs. At times, I couldn't believe what I was watching...

Yes, we might scrape a couple of wins against Bournemouth and Burnley; then again, the way he sets us up, I wouldn't bank on it. Yes, we've played the top 3 from last season and it's a tough ask for anyone. But in reality we haven't laid a glove on them. A point against Man City and 10 men for what, 50 mins and we created one chance!?! Look what Man City did to 10 men today... Exactly!!!

I've said this a million times: getting beat, I can take; yes, it's hard to stomach sometimes... but it's part and parcel of football. But getting beat without trying – well, that's unforgiveable. And that's whats happened in our last two games.

But expect more of the same under this manager because he really hasn't got a clue what he's doing.

Fair enough, mate. I actually think we didn't need to buy Klaassen and Sigurdsson, after we had bought Rooney.

Surely, Hakim Ziyech – instead of Klaassen – would've been a much better purchase from Ajax. He usually plays out wide for Ajax but can play in the Number 10 role as well; his stats for creating chances etc, were far superior to Klaassen's – the best in the Dutch League actually.

We've wasted 㿲 million on the two wrong players. Koeman and Walsh should've concentrated their efforts on getting a striker, winger, left-back, a decent partner for Keane at centre-back and a player in the mould of Ziyech.

My conclusion is that, no matter how hard I try that was a disgrace from everybody at the club associated with coaching, buying players and selection. These people should be ashamed of themselves for letting down the thousands of fans who go to watch the club or who pay a lot to watch via satellite TV.

There is nothing I can do though as an individual but if there is a groundswell of change to get the main clown to be accounted for, then I will support it. The foul taste is that we'll make him a rich man to get rid. I'd try making Unsy Head Coach with Koeman working for him and he'd soon go. His ego couldn't take that.

I don't know who we would get to replace him, which is worrying, but I have no knowledge of managers from other European leagues. Maybe as some have said, bring in Unsworth for the interim.

I would also give Barkley reassurance that he is wanted (and needed) and, although I don't like it, I think Mirallas is needed. The return of Coleman can't come quick enough (although the ageing defence needs replacing); for the remainder of this season we would be so much more stable with a back four of Coleman, Keane, Jagielka and Baines, with Barkley and Mirallas also in the team. Add "others" from the squad and we could make top half.

My biggest worry now is that we panic and splurge another load of cash on an inadequate striker in January. Personally I'd like to see Vardy brought in.

I don't think we have played well at any point this season (other than the last 10 minutes away v Hajduk Split where we played keep ball when the game was effectively over), even though results up until the Chelsea game were ultimately fairly decent.

The shift came against City; 1-0 up, away from home, at half-time, with them down to ten men. Almost perfect conditions for a morale-boosting win.

That second half display at the Etihad was, in my mind, massively misguided. We retreated, and effectively found out that if you give the ball to ten Man City players for 45 minutes then they are going to threaten more than eleven of ours. Who'd a thunk it?

We really should have come away with a win - but instead we whimpered in the face of the City onslaught and were lucky to get a point. That's a tough psychological barrier to scale, and I think Koeman is to blame for that.

Our squad is good enough to stand toe-to-toe against the top sides – maybe not so much over 38 games, but in each individual game – but the last two have shown something different. Surely it is the manager's job to deliver that.

I can't see things improving. The fit just feels wrong, so I would like to see Koeman gone (sooner rather than later) and Unsworth given until January to prove that he is the man for the job.

Forget about Barkley; at this rate, the next to move on will be Tom Davies, why fix something that was not broken?

They looked strong, disciplined and inventive. By 60-odd minutes the game had reduced to almost a friendly, the Spurs players simply retaining the ball and their defensive structure.

As for Everton, I have read with some concern the consistency of the earlier comments on here and by and large it is difficult to argue with many. I too felt sorry for Cocu Martina, I think he is not great but by no means as bad as the bandwagon would have us believe. yes the young Goalie botched on at least the first, but he is still learning on the job. Sorry, but Williams is not and his lack of pace at this level was exploited today. I'm worried about the playing of the DMs and cant quite see what Schneiderlin does, Gana, is quick, gets around and is always available to pass to.

I doubt I am the only supporter who likes young players coming through, Tom must be wondering and as for Calvert-Lewin, I have heard a few groans about him, I firmly believe he can only be judged at Centre Forward, that's his position and a young lad needs not to be played out of position, it is not fair.

Talking of fair, Niasse may or not be any good, but he seems to have been judged very quickly by the "present manager", as Ken would call him. As for Ross, maybe he has not kicked on to the levels we hoped, and he did, but for a lad who supports Everton, grew up in the area, his treatment has been poor, really poor. If you want to see desire, look at the celebration after the Burnley goal last season. In this time of mercenaries, I think we have a few, I'd have Ross ahead of any of the current crop of No 10s.

Davy is not up to it, Rooney, sad as it is, and he shows lovely class at times, a few lay offs today were sublime, he is past it, cant run for 90 mins and today was lucky the ref was scared of him.

So, we have spent a few quid, not sure how many, net of fees received, but its not much, and for me it looks disjointed, as people above have said, no width, no pace, and too many playing in what seems the same places (DMs and AMs). I cant help but feel the money, what there was of it has been wasted on duplication at the expense of missing out on what is the blindingly obvious, a new centre-backand a new Goalscorer are needed. made worse by the fact that the club knew Rom was leaving at a huge fee and he has been replaced by a ٣M player who from what I have seen is a Sub at best

Sorry to ramble, agree with every word of Colin Glassar and Dave Abrahams, it is my view that this Manager has wasted an opportunity, and money, his people management is absent, and for me I would look to remove him, not quite sure when. Easy to say that, who would I replace him with? I'm not sure right now but there was a bloke sat 5 seats away from me today, has an excellent reputation and his team have just enjoyed some success, and then been strongly supported and bolstered by new signings, that look to have been well researched by a reputable Director of Football. Step up, Mr David Unsworth. Thanks for reading.

Today was utterly pathetic and when you consider we have spent more than Spurs, alarm bells should be ringing. Koeman is paid twice what Pochettino is. Just let that sink in for a moment...

The fixture list was cruel and I expect us to pick up against the rest but for me that is simply unacceptable given the money we have spent to build a side to compete with the top 6. There are many qualities I like about Koeman but I don't think it will work out. Does anyone seriously think Unsworth wouldn't have had us better prepared today?

If you're going to Italy next week, don't go to Bergamo, the match is being played in Reggio Emilia – an hour & half further south!

With Koeman I honestly think we are doomed because from what I have witnessed to date, he doesn't know what players to pick. He has pissed off the dressing room with his handling of Ross. He's treated Niasse like a leper and looks to me to be all at sea.

It's going to be a horrible season and don't tell me we are a few games in. Koeman is bereft of ideas and if he thinks Coco Martina and Ashley Williams are Premier League defenders he is deluded. He asked for them. We're stuck with them. God help us.

Roll on January when he signs Berbatov on a free, cos there's no more money for him.

Let's see where we are in 10 more games. Near the top 7, I would say.

He was on holiday at the time, fishing off the Turkish coast I believe, came to England, signed his contract then buggered off back to his fishing for a further two weeks!

Little time for pre-season training or recruitment. This summer, he went to Portugal to play golf rather than staying and fighting for the players he wanted.

So, is it just me that gets the impression that Koeman doesn't take this job too seriously? I really want him to succeed but this cold fish attitude of his doesn't help, does it?

Koeman has brought in what I would call his long-term favourites – Schneiderlin, Klaassen, Sigurdsson and Martina. The problem arose when the Prodigal Son decided he wanted to come back – all heads Walsh, Koeman and Kenwright just had to take him for his experience, winning mentality, and to try and demonstrate we are a club going places, but forgot to consider where all were going to play.

It looks to me that the purchasing between Walsh and Koeman was never built around a playing philosophy, a style to be pursued, never integrated together and, just to complete the chaos jigsaw, the board didn't get what was obviously required to all and sundry, a left-sided defender, a pacy wide man, and a truly quality forward.

So now we are faced with a totally unbalanced squad, with no pace, no width, no strong centre-forward and 3 centre-halves, one of which can't cope at all defensively nor has the skill to pass the ball 20 yards to an Everton man (Williams), and the other near the end of his career.

I can only see the side hanging around 12-16th position in the league and the possible pearls of the side – Pickford, Davies, Calvert-Lewin, Keane, Gueye – wanting to depart to pastures new, as the "Project" will well and truly be doomed.

One truly disgruntled 60-year-old Evertonian.

Play Kenny. Adapt your tactics when they're plainly not working. Just do something to justify your obscene salary. Cheers.

We're blunt. Koeman hung Martina out to dry with this and failed to react. Martina is not a good defender but Koeman was remiss in his duty by not adjusting to such an obvious concern. I've never seen a left back allowed to play so high with such impunity.

When Leicester put us out of the FA Cup last season, I was alarmed at Koeman's failures and posted so on this site. In said post, I also mentioned a certain German at a Yorkshire club was on the rise and would be happy if we considered him.

We really lack passion and that knife we brought under Moyes is more a spatula now.

Colin, I know in this age of advanced and varied communications, he need not have been at the Ground/Finch Farm, but I understand our manager was in Portugal on Transfer Deadline Day, playing golf.

I agree with your sentiments, again.

Yes, he didn't get an extra striker but anyone who thought we were ever going to replace Lukaku's goals in one player is seriously deluded. If we could attract that type of player Lukaku would not have wanted out.

Koeman himself said that he'd rather have more players contributing more goals than relying on one striker. He demanded more creativity. Where the hell is it?

3 at the back last game now 4 at the back will only cause a disorganised defence. Williams on international duty so playing Jags would have been a better idea.

Davies has impressed but not started in preference to ineffective Klaassen. Martina was not protected down right flank. All width and pace has been removed from team.

Sigurdsson not as effective as Barkley and no pace. No cohesion, character, spirit or fight to team. No leader. It's only going to get worse.

Otherwise, OK!

It is imperative that this serious potential is not squandered. That is why we must get rid of Koeman. It is not too late, far from it, to make a success of this season and, perhaps more realistically, of the next few seasons and then to build up our great club as we all want to do.

But, if we wait too long and do a classic Everton dither with a man who isn't right for us, then I think your pessimism may be well founded, perhaps more so than you suggest.

I believe that, in Koeman's managerial history his teams have a prolonged bad run in the first half of the season followed by a run of good form which is currently the case as we've played City, Chelsea and Spurs on the spin with Man Utd up next. Despite our annual optimism I think most of us now understand that progression into the top 6 is beyond us. Hey hum – that's part of supporting Everton.

What is totally unacceptable is the terrible football we are playing and the apathetic, detached attitude of Koeman and the ear-splitting silence from our Director of Football. I've begun to wander if heading a football causes irreparable cognitive problems or is it simply the case that footballers, those that coach them and the managers are the dumb fuckwits?

They obviously need some help and guidance so I've done my analysis, assessed the above comments and put a little crib sheet together for Koeman and his coaching staff:

Williams is out-of-form and more concerned with his image than giving his all for Everton, a good slap, a haircut and 3 weeks on the Atkins.

If you want to play a back 3 then Keane and Holgate are the only defenders you have that may suit that system.

Feeney is a viable option at centre-back.

Jonjoe Kenny and Gethin Jones will give their all at right-wingback. Either one.

Get Antonee Robinson back from Bolton – we need cover at left-back.

Schneiderlin shows form in 1 of 4 games and is not good enough; try him in the '3' in Europe – more dynamism needed in central midfield.

Klaassen and Sandro need time to adapt / keep them for Europe.

Rooney is no longer good enough to play No 9, play him or Sigurdsson as No 10.

Calvert-Lewin and possibly Niasse to play up front and stretch teams.

Get violent on Mirallas, Lookman and Lennon we need hungry wingers.

Get Funes Mori, Bolasie and Coleman fixed Рit's taking too long, get them on the same special vitamins they have at Bar̤a.

... and get it done by Thursday !

I can't go often now, especially living down South, but displays like that are an insult to our fans who pay to watch it.

7th again this season? Don't bet on anything better or even that we stay in the Premier League. That was a disgrace.

At this point we are playing to many signings all at once. If we can't defend and struggle to score goals then only one outcome. On Monday, koeman needs to get back to basics of defending as a team.

Unless we start winning the battles and working harder. A season of hope may turn to dispair. I know many on here of were not fans of David Moyes but I was of his passion for the work ethic of players whatever their ability.

I'm so glad I declined my ticket for Thursday – it would have been another 𧺬 down the drain.

Well I had a real reality check today at Goodison Park because we are without doubt light-years behind the top 6 teams. Every team above us has pace and organisation what I witness today was slow predictable and without doubt inept. Why?

Because we keep employing crap managers who have egos bigger than the club. Pochettino has a hungry youthful side who do not mind mixing it but can play fast simple effective football, Clippity Klopp has the same philosophy as does Conte at Chelsea... What I witnessed today was totally unacceptable, predictable and quite frankly piss poor and the worry is without a proven striker, I cannot see it getting any better.

This season's massive for him personally as I think & hope Mr Moshiri will be the ruthless man at the helm that we all hope he is. On this performance I might stick money on Ronald McDonald not being in charge come this Christmas. We are that bad. Yet another false dawn looming.

I am really finding it hard at this moment to follow Everton & I have watched and supported them for almost 50 years. So so disappointed with everyone at our great club. No passion. No desire. No idea.

Today was one of the worst performances I can remember, and believe me, I have seen a lot. I never got off my seat, not even to boo the team, it was that poor. I can't remember seeing us so poor up front; it's going to be a long hard season,

Not many years ago, Spurs were at our level, if a bit below, just behind the top six. Now we look mid-table at best and Spurs may win the league.

The Koeman project looks a dead duck just now – if it is the same at Christmas, perhaps Mr Moshiri will remember his business principles; don't reinforce failure and don't throw good money after bad.

For God's sake – everybody, stop making excuses for another PPP. Absolutely disgraceful. Winning or losing is one thing but that pathetic display?

This was no better than it was under Martinez. And how much have we spent?

I walked away in the end, incandescent with rage. One person to blame in my view. I wonder how long he will be given?

We need Mirallas back in also. Surely he offers more than some of those on show today. After all he has pace and an eye for goal. Attributes we were severely lacking today.

Some of the comments about Martina are unfair. He was badly exposed today. He is okay going forward but Kenny deserved a run in the team.

I cannot understand why Spurs could roam freely in acres of space on the wings while our lot struggled to find room enough to swing a cat.

We didn't and don't have much in the first place but it was criminal to assume kids or players with no experience could handle the Premier League, its criminal to play defensive midfielders when you have Lookman and Mirallas.

Koeman is a con man, and he is taking us for a ride. No squad balance; Christ any good Everton supporter could pick a better team than he could, I could! And that's saying something.

So, all of a sudden all those people slagging Mirallas and Barkley are having second thoughts, could it just be that both of them should be playing? At the moment if both were fit, they should be in the team. No question. Because they are better than what we have. Simple.

It's no surprise their toys went out of the pram, mine went out a couple of weeks ago, the pram has just gone out the window now.

Note to the board. Get rid.

Here's hoping.

Boy when the fans hate you at Goodison they hate you big time!! Rooney escaped criticism yet was yards off the pace!!

Martina has taken a lot of stick – some of it deserved. He is a decent wing back but not a right back. He delivered a lot of good balls into the box but we simply do not have anyone to get on the end of them. Many balls were played into the channels but we didn't have anybody running into the channels. The lack of pace is incredible. Sandro and Klaassen have both got obvious ability but need to be introduced gradually – they are simply not up to pace.

Sigurdssson on the left wing!? He looked lost and was far more effective when moved centrally. The only meagre ray of hope was Vlasic who showed glimmers of pace, skill and strength. He will have to show more than glimmers to save us.

The problem he's got at Everton, was that other than Lukaku, Coleman and Baines the rest he inherited were useless or old. I'm sorry but it's not a 3-year job he's got but a 4- or 5-year job to get us consistently near the Top 6.

I suspect even if we got our desired centre-forward and centre-back, it will take 6 months to gel, but what he's left with now is totally useless, unbalanced squad which will do well to keep in the top half of the table.

Koeman himself knows we've cocked up big time, with still the backbone only half-completed – he desperately needs Bolasie and Coleman back asap; they are his only speed merchants. He clearly doesn't rate Lookman yet and I'm not surprised after his Split away performance. He's as bad as Barkley in giving the ball away in dangerous positions.

Is this any better than Martinez?? Not for me it's not.

I would have accepted a loss at Chelsea and home to Spurs if we had made a match of it and offered some sort of resistance. It could easily have been 5-0 or a lot worse.

Supporters who are angry at the way we played today are not moaners or whingers. This isn't about individual players. It isn't about who left or who came in or who we didn't get.

It's about the set-up and management of a team. And the ability to realise you've made a mistake and change things. And not repeat the mistake. That's what lost Martinez his job.

No threat, no fear factor, Lukaku & Barkley gave opposition defences something to worry about. Now there is nothing. Teams will play us without fear or trepidation as there is no goal threat, pace or unpredictability. Just 4 shots on target in 4 matches is pitiful.

The whole approach needs a rethink, and pick a side with some sort of width and better balance. Give Calvert-Lewin a run as centre-forward.

Scarcely believable.

Last season, after watching capitulation every week away from home, I called Koeman a fraud and the same deluded fans were at me.

Koeman is a fraud; if it wasn't for Lukaku's goals last season, we would've been battling relegation. Those Evertonians who called Lukaku lazy and were happy for Romelu to leave – what say you now? Goals at this level are hard to come by. We gave a goal machine to Man Utd for buttons. Wasted the money on crap.

Today was a journey back to the dark days of Walter Smith and the Moyes period of avoiding relegation with the lowest points tally ever. Absolutely abysmal and toe curlingly embarrassing.

Everton FC is a disaster waiting to happen and has been for years. Kenwright, Elstone and now this new Yesman, Moshiri, another full-of-shit fraudster. The problem is Bill is still in charge at the club, no matter what we think. Rooney was Bungalow Bill's idea. Koeman needs shooting for allowing it.

The whole team is a disgrace. The players who were looking good at times last season have been drained and beaten down by the Dutch Moyes – just like Davey used to do. You can see it in their body language. It's not a happy camp. No-one cares and no-one tries.

Install Unsworth now or go and get Allardyce to save us from relegation. Laugh all you want but that's how poor we are. That's how serious this is.

Let's see how many fans are still glad we gave Lukaku away after the Man Utd game and then the derby.

Keep Koeman and it's bottom 4 at Christmas – no doubt about it.

The problem stems from the coach who does not have a clue. How anybody can try to shoe horn 3 Number 10's in to midfield with no width and no pace shows a total lack of tactical awareness.

Having watched Klaassen in The Europa League final, I knew he was a light weight and totally overrated. He is slow, diminutive and has no skill and we bought him to replace Barkley; what a joke. He has been shocking so far and the game passes him by.

Martina was also let go by Southampton because he was not good enough, so why is he gracing our first team when we have two youngsters who I think are much better defensively. Only Keane and Pickford and maybe Rooney have improved the team over last season and overall the team is considerably weaker than last year and we have spent £150M. If Koeman carries on with this approach, I believe we are going to be bottom 6 rather than top 6.

It has not been so much the score line against Chelsea or Spurs it has been the abject displays; we have been terrible. The board should give him 6 more games and, if there is no improvement, then he has to go.

Because we're Everton and we are The People's Club and we do lovely, heartwarming things. And there's a Project. And we are not run by conmen.

Let's just wait for another 6 months, 12 months, some time, never. Impotent dreams.

Whatever we do, let's do nothing.

We have been awful to watch under Koeman most weeks.

There you have it. I understand where your coming from but it's an utter fallacy. What outlay ?

This is football and it's a weird industry but too many Evertonians are falling for the great "amortisation" accountancy scam. This is where we are meant to suspend the normal rules that apply to building a successful squad of players for the campaign ahead, and instead celebrate that the owner has indeed substantially added to his yearly commitment to fund the squad. In this case it's gone from 㿊m pa to 㿲m pa and yep that's a 3-5 year period of, well, a lot of "commitment".

But here's the thing. It just isn't the same thing as making a truly game changing difference to a squad if your net capital spend in-season is nothing like the headline figure that seems to transfix our fanbase. The amounts spent are crazy, but so are the figures for sales. Whether the contract outlays are spread over a number of seasons, or not, so is the income. The bottom line remains that net outlay is the best most accurate measure of just how much impact your having on squad quality and strength in depth.

Our net spend is a bit shy of 㿞m which is half the latest premier league windfall from sky. It shows little actual real pump priming of a squad that finished 7th last year and wants to be more than the best of the rest.

Why? Because if you decide to cash in on your outstanding but disrespectful and gobby striker for 䀆m or so, and add another 㾿m or so in other sales, it just isn't enough to say you've done "good business" in the window but utterly failed to replace those 20-25 goals (facts say that should read "almost guaranteed 20-25 goals") or addressed some glaringly obvious and crucial issues of balance in your squad – no pace, no width, and an aging defence with long-term injury adding to weaknesses.

Mr Moshiri has cleared our debt, something that helps by ending loan costs obviously, but is a very long-term gain and won't get you 25 goals a season. He has agreed to support the yearly costs of a squad with hugely increased salary levels. Great amortisation performance. But not the significant two transfer window impact that can help overcome losing one of the best strikers in Europe.

Today's pathetic "performance" losing to an admittedly classy Spurs side just put the spotlight on another failed transfer window. I will get slaughtered for that but I don't care anymore. We've ballsed up yet again. Where's the transfer strategy? We're is the bloody balance? One very decent looking keeper and a good centre back apart, we've brought in a series of expensive midfielders and forward players who are actually more like No 10s and have one young centre-forward who the manager is already messing about in terms of position and selection.

I have no idea how we failed to bring in a top quality striker. And actually a second, perhaps less experienced forward because all the top teams will have three or four decent forwards in their squads. Plus that left-sided centre-back. We had the time. We chased Gylfi for so long. Spent a lot on him. But it hasn't happened and I sense a gamble that if it all went pear shaped by 1/9 we just needed to hold out for January when Seamus and Bolasie will have returned, and maybe some kind of No 9 bought in.

I think Koeman has told us now that we are again not competing for top four. Seems early to admit defeat to me, but he's said it and how he setup against Chelsea and Spurs feels a bit like damage limitation. But so many players are performing way below their best already.

Williams is just a horrible disappointment, isn't he. Slow to turn and well, just so, so slow, full stop.

Klassen? I know he needs time and we should give him that. But really, he's so far off, well I don't know what, he just doesn't seem to fit and I honestly don't see him, Rooney and Gylfi and Sandro all playing behind a striker.

Sandro? Yep, needs time to gel, like Mr Moshiri suggests, but boy, he's got a long way to come on if he's to get anywhere near the hype that accompanied his "chase" and actual arrival.

There's loads more but it's just too depressing. Only Everton can raise you up and three months later bring you down, hard. Of course it's just four very tough games in. But beating Burnley and Bournemouth won't be easy and it won't change the fact that those above us look even better than last season and I say that knowing today's results are very mixed.

Time to really earn that mega salary Ronald, things can go downhill pretty quickly but somehow turn it around at Man Utd and beyond, and maybe we can see a way to get to January without too much damage? How that's happening, I admit I've no idea because today I was stuck trying to think what we do to really shift the story away from transfer windows and Rooney and depressing and very easy capitulation.

This guy is the vanilla ice-cream of managers. Solid, not too bad but ultimately very boring.

Thomas Tuchel and Luis Enrique are two managers available right now. Just saying .

From the muddled tactics, players out of position, changing formations, seemingly uninspired players, two defensive midfielders who offer nothing going forward, full-backs who are far too narrow, Ashley Williams, no centre-forward – I don't.

Is more transfer activity the answer? Maybe but not if Koeman is doing the buying for me.

Williams – awful
Martina – hung out to dry today but poor
Schneiderlin – poor
Klaassen – poor may get better
Sandro – poor; may get better
Bolasie – gets better every game he doesn't play but was at best an inconsistent show pony before his injury

Pickford – good but we paid steeply for him
Keane – could be good
Gueye – good

I know there are other younger players who may come good(??)

Koeman has sold or pissed off the jewels that other people bought or developed. The only reason his net spend is low is because he has sold Stones and Lukaku for 𧵎m – he neither bought nor developed either of these.

In light of this, I fear for a long hard season but will at least get 3 nice euro trips before Christmas. Unfortunately, I can't see any more after Christmas.

Getting past the two Europa League sides wasn't exactly exciting and we were quite happy in saying the team was a work in progress against not-so-good opposition which was okay, they got the job done. Things will get tougher in the group stage.

However, if we look at the 4 league games starting with Stoke you know we expected something more high tempo which didn't occur and only for a world class save from Pickford right at the end we would have lost 2 points.

The Man City game was there for the taking and they blew it with very little time left remaining. Man City with 11 men for 90 minutes could have been a different proposition.

Then of course things caught up with us in the shape of Chelsea and Spurs and I suppose now the big question is how long is the ''work in progress'' going to take?

Right now Koeman has to re-think his strategy and his team selection otherwise it will be a long hard slog till January with an attack force as potent as a soggy biscuit.

Stoke proved today that, with minimal spending, good players can be obtained and I have to say I haven't seen a Stoke side with more skill than this one especially Shaqiri who is better than anyone in Everton's midfield at present.

Koeman will probably make a few changes for the Atalanta game but whether the performance will prove anything is debatable as Atalanta are not top Premier League opposition.

Bye, Ronald, you charlatan, living on a reputation as a decent player but an awful, awful manager.

The same old teething problems we've been highlighting ever since the season began with the unconvincing wins against Ruzomberok manifested themselves in all their true glory. Ashley Williams being one, he quite evidently does not have the standard of technical abilities as a footballer to stake a regular place in the first team of a side allegedly harbouring ambitions of breaking the top four. He simply isn't good enough... he still plays as if he plies his trade at Stockport County... he's a hoofballer and nothing more.

The other problems... the disaster that is unfolding at right-back is a major concern. Coleman got injured (bad luck), and so we are left with Holgate (incapable of running forward down the wings, let alone crossing the ball), or Cuco Martina (incapable of defending or stopping crosses going in) as our right backs.

So much of the defence is below par... and that's without even mentioned the shenanigans taking place further up the field. I don't know how many times we have to say that playing two defensive midfielders together in Schneiderlin and Gueye stifles creativity and ruins our chances of scoring.

The well-documented failure to land an out-and-out 'target man', proven centre-forward will be catastrophic... Koeman instead plays an attack composed entirely of Number 10's (Rooney, Sigurdsson, Klaassen, Sandro etc) and just sort of hopes it will work. It won't. We should have signed a Number 9... surely Walsh and Moshiri or Kenwright are to blame there. This team is not going to score goals.

As for today's ratings... scores on the doors.

Pickford – 5. Question marks over the nature of the first goal – yes, it was a fluke shot, but from that distance? He seemed to parry out the second into the path of their scorer.

Martina – 4. Yes, he can burst down the wing and put a cross in. But he is truly shocking defensively, and was constantly beaten by Ben fucking Davies... imagine a Mane or Sterling running against him. He just can't defend.

Keane – 4. Definitely his worst game in an Everton shirt. He was just poor defensively and seemed to cause Pickford a lot of problems.

Williams – 2. Not of the standard required sadly. Quite simple.

Baines – 6. One person's performance that I can't particularly fault today. Leighton always gives his all... a true professional and role model. Perhaps his crosses were lacking though.

Gueye – 6. The second player who came at least close to meeting expectations today, he did his job just as well as he always does.

Schneiderlin – 3. It's still a mystery what happened to Schneiderlin between the end of last season and the start of this one. He doesn't actually do anything anymore, his passing and control has gone out of the window. He looked a class act, but now he's a mere passenger. Strange one.

Klaassen – 5. You know, the more I actually watch this guy play, the more I realise that he has real quality about him. His passing play is superb, he has potential to be great. Yet games still seem to be passing him by completely; he has no impact on them at all. We need to see a lot more.

Sigurdsson – 4. There can be no doubt of his qualities, sure. But I think Gylfi was the completely wrong signing for us in that window, being deployed in an already crowded area. I don't think he was what this team needed (we needed pace and width), not another narrow midfielder, or Number 10. 㿙 million for a glorified Sebastian Larsson...

Sandro – 3. He works hard... he always runs around a lot and puts defenders under pressure. But he hasn't really showed any actual quality to us so far, and has looked pretty toothless in front of goal with poor finishing. Remember Lukaku describing Niasse as "raw"? I think that applies to Sandro, but there could be a player in there. Maybe we did get a ٣.2 million player.

Rooney – 5. He's always on of the better players on the pitch, and he has something about him, he can pick the right pass at the right time. Think of when he set Martina free to cross for Sandro. Yet another Number 10, however... neither he nor Sandro stay central up front.

Davies – 3. It's not going to happen for him this seaosn and I feel he is due some time back in the U23s.

Calvert-Lewin – 4; didn't do anything more than Sandro did.

Does no-one else find it strange how, when we use a back-five system, where we need some more attacking players to compensate for the 3 centre-backs, that Koeman always uses Holgate at right-back? But then whenever we go to a flat back four and needs the full backs further back, he plays Martina, the attacking one of the two?! Surely when we play a back 5 with wing backs, Martina is ideal; and when we go back four, Holgate should be used? Baffling.

Koeman also insists in using Sigurdsson down the left wing. But he's not a winger, that's not his position, he's ineffectual there and should be deployed centrally. He played on the left at Spurs, and we all know how that worked out.

These are worrying times, but I think these past two results have almost been a good thing in a way - we huffed and puffed against pub team Ruzomberok, toiled against Hajduk Split, and unconvincingly scraped past Stoke. In terms of our actual play ignoring the results, we've been woeful and we needed a wake-up call.

Now we have it. Ronald, show us what you can do.

We haven't had a manager in years who can make us into winners. It's an absolute joke that we crumbled, like we did today. All these new top players with leadership qualities, well, where was the leadership today? Cause I didn't see it.

I really don't see a good manager in Ronald Koeman, but I hope I'm wrong. 'Embarrassing' is an understatement.

Williams and Martina shouldn't get another game this season. No organisation, no pace, no width, no striker, totally clueless. How can we back a manager and Walsh, who never replaced Lukaku, all he wanted was Sigurdsson, and didn't give a shit about a left sided centre-back, and left-back.

He was very vocal in his criticism of Barkley last season; not a word about the performance of his replacement.

In 2017, we have looked as inept as any Everton side under Moves, Martinez or even Mike Walker. No away wins since early January,; haven't won back-to-back league games this year... and don't even look like competing against any of the top sides where, as soon as we go behind, it's game over.

Baines is finished! Shocking! He was poor last season too.

And the next? Why and why?

It's the pits, and no easy way out.

He is the best paid & top-spending manager in EFC's history. Yet, the games we have won this season were virtually unwatchable & the squad is the most unbalanced in my 47-odd years in supporting Everton.

In his defence, he did sort out the home form last season apart from the usual meek surrender in both derbies & Chelsea not breaking sweat on the way to the title. He did also get us back into Europe although not everybody appreciates the Europa League.

In January, we spanked title favourites Man City 4-0 in one of the best Blues performances for decades. What has happened other than Lukaku leaving? My patience with Koeman & his marginalising of our flair players is wearing very thin.

If today was bad, I'm dreading the Media Darlings at Old Trafford next Sunday.

Once again Koeman has had to alter his side at half time and, once again, the substitutions made little difference: the damage was already done by the slow and narrow formation.

We are frighteningly one dimensional and pedestrian. Klaassen is out of his depth and, at the moment, Sandro would be best used, late on, as an impact sub.

What concerns me most, however, is the continued perseverance with Martina and Williams. They are a million miles from what we need to progress. Martina, in particular, should be nowhere near the first team.

Koeman, like a lot of managers, appears to be very reluctant to select young players. Kenny must wonder what he has to do to get a game.

Worrying times.

Martina might be average but was left completely exposed. Ashley... sorry, mate, you're not good enough.

After a 400-mile round-trip costing hundreds, once again to no avail, my son has said he's not coming again until there is something worth watching... and I have to say I can't disagree with him.

As bad as anything Martinez dished up.

Clearly we have bought a few quality players, but its starting to look like we have a few duds in there too.

Davy Kalassen for one needs to improve drastically and fast as buying him may already stiffle Davies, although I don't think Davies can play a full season.

Sigurdsson or Klaassen should have been bought, not both by the looks of it as they want to occupy the same space on the pitch.

Buying Sigurdssonfor all that money to stick him out of position is crazy.

Buying Lookman for 㾷m and looking as though you don't fancy him is equally as nutty.

Playing Martina over Holgate in a game were you will need to defend a lot of the time is criminal.

Playing Williams in current form is suicidal; if he is better than Jags then how can you give Jags a deal and not buy someone. Maguire or Gibson would have been good long term partners for Keane.

Imo, we should be playing less new players from the start, players like Martinez and Klaassen who are clearly struggling could be used from the bench with players like Davies and Holgate being used, as they were successfully last season.

There is so much wrong atm, I didn't expect many points from the games we are currently losing, but the manner of the defeats especially to Chelsea and again to Spurs today is unacceptable.

It will be very interesting to see the line up for the Man Utd game as that team can't start again!

Lastly, wasn't the new lad supposed to be a winger? He came on in central midfield from were I was watching in the Park End.

Our man was by no means universally popular with either their establishment or fans and it is said their was a general feeling of relief when we bought him out of his '٠M a year' contract.

He was very much Moshiri's pick – Bill would have stood by Martinez – so I guess we've been as badly burned as scalded. It is doomed to get worse, methinks !

Early days but appalling displays so far , and hopefully you will let Ronald know that we don't like his defensive tactics. We need to be set up to win games – not lose them.

This team/squad, are new, so given that, you make allowances; there were no signs of any cohesion within the squad whatsoever, I know it's early days, but I Don't envisage any positive signs forward.

I think, only my opinion, that Koeman has to take the blame and, if this continues, I can't see him being in employment for much longer but he won't be signing on either.

What a crazy world football has become!

We have played three of the almost certain Top 5 in our last three games, two of them away. We've been shown up in two of those games but we are 3 points off of 5th – and 4 points from the bottom too admittedly but no-ones had a rougher start than us. The Liverpool team that spanked Arsenal got thumped by Man City today.

Koeman and the team have got to pull their socks up, get a couple of positive results and try and put some kind of performance together in the midweek games coming up. Do that and we'll get a bit of confidence and things could look altogether different after we've played a few of the lesser lights of the Premier League.

It might look like Halloween at the moment but let's wait until the real one before we start burning people at the stake.

He is lost and is losing the players and supporters.

Martina was hung out to dry as many have said. Williams is quite the most astonishingly uncultured player I can ever recall seeing for us – fond memories of Terry Darracott and Hibbo. The decision to start Klaassen and Ramirez was incomprehensible.

Against this Tottenham, leaving Jagielka, Holgate and Calvert-Lewin on the bench. When Sigurdsson was also in the 11. But the one thing that has to be said above all else – Schneiderlin's performance today was a total disgrace. So Ronald, starting 11 today included 10 who you've brought to the club. What would you say if you were us?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport

It's a good read and confirms what most are thinking.

Koeman committed his usual trio of sins; questionable selection, contrary formation and a complete lack of playing style.

The players today can stand along side their manager as equally as culpable. All XI.

Spurs after the second goal just started taking the piss, Ali in particular all flicks and nutmegs. Yet only a misguided Rooney attempted to 'lay one on them'. Was he trying to atone for the performance or more personal matters?

Koeman is a deadman walking, the players look like they don't share his penchant for defensive shithousery.

We have a good enough squad to fashion a strong team, so I don't buy into the yearning for Lukaku & Barkley thing.

So for me Moshiri should give him the next three games to get 7+pts from or give him the old Spanish archer.

It simply hasn't worked, and most hauntingly shows no sign of changing or improving quickly. Why give a man more rope to hang himself?

Moshiri talks ambition, expectations and spending to boot. No way should we put up with that tripe. I guess those more inclined to ignore the problems or plead for time will cite a lack of suitable replacement.

Not an excuse not to get rid. But I believe Tuchel would jump at the chance, and would be worth the leap.

I'm sure many will scoff at Unsworth stepping in, but really how could it be worse?

With the most awful away record under Koeman the next 6 days do not bode well. Come Bournemouth will the pressure to just give us something to smile about be too much?

He should resign that would be the Dutch thing to do.

They managed to combine no attacking movement with moving out of position, all at sea, not knowing where to be on the pitch. The only time the midfield were forward was when they should have been back covering. Spurs had so much space, the pitch looked enormous when they went forward.

Koeman is right in one thing he said – the team looked "Too nice, too weak". It's another way of saying demoralized. To address this is the job of the manager. I don't think he can do it. All the signs were there of a baffled group of players – not a team. There is zero spirit, and zero fire. I believe the players are not getting him at all, and I don't think they will.

Sorry, Dean - that one has now been officially retired as an excuse. Ask Barkley.

Football is a very simple game, complicated by high-paid idiots who talk the same PR shite after every game. There are a few exceptions to rule, of course, but Koeman isn't one of them. For me, a top manager has two things: man-management and organisation.

Tactics this, tactics that... bla bla bla – is all shite until you reach that elite level Champions League etc. Look at today's game for example. Every single player in that Spurs team would run through a brick wall for there gaffer; our guys look terrified to cross the halfway line, ffs.

Football ball has changed – every young player is now a millionaire, spoilt little twats, they need to be man-managed. Some need an arm around the shoulder; some need a father figure, and some need a bollocking, but all must believe in the manager and his grand plan.

For me, the players have either not bought into his "project" or Koeman has pissed-off some of the popular lads in the dressing room and now it's a sulk. Either way, it's fucking shite for us fans.

I've said it many times on these pages and on the live forum: losing happens, it's football, but there's a way to lose, lose with pride, with fight, with passion, with dignity, leave it all on the line and the fans will accept it. To bend over and get shafted like we have is sackable in itself. It should never happen, ever.

The players' utter lack of reaction, complete confusion of what they needed to achieve.

The ambivalence towards the manager was clear, much worse than anger, that implies they still care.

When you cannot convince a set of men who are financially set for life of your methods, time to get your brother to pack the bags, and Jan K to book the Uber.

Who knows how long the powers that be will give him to sort it out.

I think I'm one of the few who likes Klaassen, but even I'll admit that he shouldn't have been bought. We are completely overloaded in that area. How can everyone see it but the manager?

I'd honestly be delighted if I woke up tomorrow to find Unsworth in charge, even on a temporary basis. I don't know what Koeman has said or done but these players are not responding to him. It's easy to imagine him rubbing people the wrong way and when you're not getting the results, they won't put up with it.

One special mention for Morgan Schneiderlin, who I thought looked top class when he arrived. The last two games, he has been disgraceful. I can cope with people having a bad game but the lack of effort there is inexcusable.

Sack Koeman. Whatever it costs. Barkley will sign a new deal under any other manager.

First job was to restore some semblance of defensive solidity. Not difficult and he managed it. Although buying Williams was strange. Jagielka was getting panned because, playing left side, he made mistakes. But, instead of buying a left-sided centre-back, he didn't fancy Funes Mori, he bought a player who was no better than Jagielka and subsequently looks poor by comparison.

He has now bought Keane, another right-sided centre-back. When Man Utd gets shut because you are judged to be worse than Phil Jones or Johnny Evans, it should ring alarm bells. I wasn't convinced by him; still not.

Same reasoning over why I didn't want Schneiderlin.

I understand why some on here complain about playing two defensive midfielders at home but I disagree. If they are quality, they protect the back four, break up play, and allow the full-backs to get forward. Problem is, the two he choose are not up to the job. Yet again both Schneiderlin and Gueye found themselves repeatedly the wrong side of Spurs players.

Given our lack of pace throughout the team – but particularly at the back – two sitters gives us a problem in getting up the pitch but not having them is suicidal. We didn't have them yesterday because those selected weren't up to the job.

The presence of Barry last season gave Tom Davies a chance. This season, he is swamped.

I didn't want Klaassen. He's lightweight and totally over-run.

Bolasie is a headless chicken and had two or three good games a season at Palace. His return will make little difference. If he does return to play right, we will see little of Coleman over the half-way line because he doesn't track back.

Sandro may be a good signing eventually. He looked great in the Spanish U23s but so did Deulofeu. He isn't a centre-forward and he isn't fit. He's not cutting it in the Premier League at the moment.

I thought the purchase of Pickford strange. One season in a struggling team getting plenty of practice, rather than buying others of real quality elsewhere, wasn't a good shout. He could develop but he hasn't got a right foot at all. Bizarre.

Martina was an okay shout as a stop-gap. Kenny may be physically smaller than the ideal but he should have been given the chance with Martina as the fall-back.

Tactics. Koeman said that the team weren't fit when he came. He wanted a pressing game. I've yet to see it. It needs the whole team to move up. Spurs are not a particularly quick team, Kane and Alli have great movement which makes up for that and they are a big team which tires towards the last third of games but they do press.

They bought Sigurdsson and sold him back to The Swans. We paid 㿙m for him?

I like Calvert-Lewin. He's a long way to go, he's certainly not Lukaku, but someone needs to tell him that he's got to cut out the stupid flicks like the one that led to the third goal and totally killed the game. It's not even coaching it's just "Do that again and I'll kick your arse so hard!"

I said before the game that losing five even down to ten was disgraceful and indicated a team shouldering arms. For most of the second half, we looked disillusioned as a team in a way I've not seen since the dog days of Walter Smith.

Sack him now; Christmas will be too late.

Other than that I'm really happy. At least that's what I've told the wife – otherwise she'd know I was mad going to Italy and Man Utd in the next week.

Why we gave Martina a 3-year deal is a mystery to me. Kenny is a far better player and Holgate, although a centre-back, can fill a gap there until Coleman is fit. Martina can't defend.

We've bought too many attacking midfielders who get in eachother's way. We look a little better with Calvert-Lewin as the focal point but he's often on the bench to start.

We have no fit left-sided centre-back – Williams looks unfit to me but Jagielka struggles to pass off his left foot. Pickford will be great in future but needs to be coached to parry the ball away from danger. We lack width and pace. Usually when teams spend a few quid, you see an improvement, but we've gone backwards.

The vast majority of our squad now have been brought in and came to play for Koeman, many of them in the last few weeks – they probably haven't even met the 'popular lads in the dressing room'. Who would they be anyway? And please don't say Ross Barkley, FFS.

It's not Koeman's "project" either, it's Moshiri's, and given the ink's only just dried on their contracts, I call bullshit on that one too.

We're in a mess but pulling out "why's it not working" standards like "losing the dressing room" at this point is just picking a nail out of a box to hang your hat on just so you can vent your spleen.

Maybe they're demoralised because they can't see any attacking outlet until January. Maybe Koeman's just as demoralised about that as they are. Maybe that's his fault but give him more than a week to try and sort it out FFS.

However, how many would be optimistic if we were playing Brighton away next week? Team selections are baffling to nearly all. How on earth is Williams starting games? Martina first-choice right-back? What (if anything) is Koeman doing to motivate? And for the millionth time – why wasn't Lukaku replaced? Why have 5 No 10s and no striker?

Selling Lukaku and not replacing him with one or maybe two top quality strikers has to be the most shocking miscalculation I have seen the club make. There is no easy way out of this monumental mistake.

It's time for the squad to roll up their sleeves and prepare to battle. The senior guys have to support the likes of Calvert-Lewin and Lookman every step of the way. These two have the quality and the ability to get a few goals and cause a few problems for opponents during a tough time. January may see a partial fix and an attempt to rectify the calamitous error of the summer.

When I posted months ago that we were not buying players who could hurt the opposition, that Koeman was "building a house and forgetting to put the fucking roof on" –your smart-arse comment was "This is why they build asylums."

I see you are still pleading that Koeman is still the victim as opposed to being the perpetrator... Smell the coffee, man; most of the other kite flyers have – we can see you sneaking over to the other side.

This thread should be called the U-turn of the fickle.

Damian Wilde claimed he was delighted with our signings. Now he say's in post 72... "Koeman is useless, Koeman out, poor player purchasing, poor line-up." He then, rather amusingly, tries to tell us he told us so.

Martin Mason is Classic: Only a few days ago, he was telling us he saw "nothing but positives." Now, post 159: he tells us he's prepared to support any movement, if it gets rid of the "clown" in charge.

I can see the headlines in the Echo tomorrow: "Council spend fortune clearing up kites abonadoned by grass-skirted know-alls".

People need to get a grip. They either see Koeman as the wrong guy, or they back him. Tammy Wynette would be spinning if she could see this thread.

Wanna know what they really build asylums for, Mike? It's for people who fool themselves into thinking they are fooling everyone else.

Unsworth In!

Some were screaming to get rid of Stones and to replace him with a solid, no-nonsense pro like Shawcross or Williams. I hope you're happy.

Lukaku was considered to be a lazy lump of shite who couldn't trap a bag of cement and only scored jammy, deflected goals (you know who you are) and wasn't fit enough to wear our sacred shirt. I hope you're happy.

Ross, another favourite target of the "we need a grafter" group. He's thick, lazy, cowardly, clueless etc Now some are saying Koeman's treatment of Ross is near criminal but many on here thought he wasn't good enough. I hope you're happy.

Even if we had Aguero, this joker would do the same to the team and Aguero would not score before Christmas.

Inept... and worse still – heartless.

I was in the lower Bullens Road yesterday. The last time I was there I was directly behind Alex Young when he score the header against Spurs to clinch the title in 62-63 season. Many of those players and Evertonians at that game, now passed away, would turn in their graves at yesterday's excuse for a performance.

I have been amongst those willing to wait and see if Koeman could get us playing. Seeing first hand a full game from inside the ground has given me clarity on our situation.

You have been right all along: Koeman Out.

Yes, all three suffered from lapses in concentration and, sometimes, made poor choices but we've replaced them, so far, with inferior players.

Yeah, new spine my arse. I was texting my mate last December, "Is he a fraud?" before the match against Arsenal. And after the heavy defeat of Man City I thought for a while I was wrong.

But results and performances were mixed after that. I didn't know why. I thought the jury was still out. But I'm saying this the third time since yesterday, "The good performances were more by accident than his ability".

I think the jury is not out anymore. He's crap, he's lousy, he needs to go.

My fear is that Koeman will try to justify his signings by playing these new guys at the expense of the likes of McCarthy, Kenny, Davies to name just 3.

Coleman should be given the captains armband. He leads by example and has massive pride in the jersey – unlike a lot of the newbies who don't seem to care!

Nothing anyone could do about that, as they had the opportunity for immediate Champions League football.

I agree with you that neither deserved the flak they received. However, they wanted to go. So, for me, the only issue is focussing on how good their replacements are.

So far, not very!

I'm not a great fan of Moshiri – perhaps if he'd put enough in to divest the Club of 'The Entertainer' completely, I could have warmed to him- but the guy can be excused if he feels let down by the thick end of 𧴜M being blown on the likes of Schneiderlin, Klaassen and Sigurdsson.

In a way we've been spoilt throughout this century by having only occasional flirtations with relegation. Whatever the shortcomings of Moyes and Martinez, they kept us safe as in the words of ex-Villa owner Randy Lerner, "You are only ever a poor manager away from the drop."

Unfortunately for Moshiri and all Evertonians, he's found one!

I'm not. I stumbled across it when reading the views of others who shouted down the blindingly obvious when it was pointed out to them. Yours just seemed to fit my post best.

Laurie,

Sorry it didn't turn out better for you. Will this mean you give the Old Lady a wide berth next time you're over? Of course it won't. You're hooked, mate and there isn't a cure.

Enjoy the rest of your visit!

Give Koeman until December before making a judgement. A top striker wouldn't make a blind bit of difference as we aren't creating any chances anyway.

Apart from one or two, I believe we have an excellent squad. We have to be patient. I know it is hard after so many years in the wilderness but managers need time.

Darren Hind – again, well said.

The ignorance towards the fans who could see these performances coming a long time ago has been as disgraceful as the tactics.

How many will be man enough to say you know what Darren, you wasn't so out of order through having an open mind and cutting out the soppy "I love Everton so everything is great" type of comebacks you and a few others have received. That would be nice to see. I think even the most stay "positive" fans must know your interests are for the good of the team now.

How many times did I say another striker won't change us. I didn't forget the last ten games of last season. You have to create for a striker. Now look at the shots ratio.

That was really easy for to me to see and I found it to be a problem last season. Now its come to light, do you think I am bothered it sounded negative in July??

What do you want, a tee-shirt with "I spotted it first, Koeman is a fucking shite manager".

We can all see that things are not going well and every game this season has just gone from bad to totally fucking shocking. But being blue you just hope that it's a blip, you just pray that it's a blip because come Saturday you want, need, pray for and hope that the mighty blues win.

Fuck me, I can see we are playing shite, I'm even paying good money to see us play shite. So someone continually saying "I told you so" means jack shite.

All I want is Everton to win and, from what I'm seeing, that's not happening any time soon. It's totally depressing and it totally fucks up my whole week having to watch Everton try to play football. Every and I mean every blue who was at Goodison yesterday knows we are playing shite.

For fuck's sake some had their faces buried deep into their hands, looking totally shocked and the abuse aimed at Koeman was, to say the least, vulgar. So yeah, you can take it as given, we all know that Everton are shite.

Our forward line isn't imposing enough, even with Calvert-Lewin, so opposing defenders relax and start to build the play; opposing wing backs like Ben Davies yesterday have the confidence to get forward knowing there's little threat behind them.

When Lukaku was here, most times the ball was just being lumped up to him, but he got more criticism than Koeman. He was called a gobshite for expressing frustration and having ambition.

When Barkley didn't sign a new contract, he was criticised for being a traitor, and he was called a gobshite as well.

Sean Dyche for me, worked wonders at a club who have no right to be in the Premier League.

As I've been saying, we don't get enough men forward. In pure Scouse, Koeman is a big shithouse.

A sign of a plan would be nice mind. As would some spirit and ticker.

If he gets it wrong totally, over time, he will be sacked and that will be Barcelona done for him too. In the meantime, he will be given time by the club. All the shouting in the world on here isn't going to change that one iota.

So I will continue to go to the match and support the team, even if it means watching through my fingers and holding my nose. If that is even possible at the same time!

You were making a statement of the blindingly obvious to others who could patently see the obvious. The only difference was that some were prepared to give some time before starting the endless complaining.

I won't be at Old Trafford next week due to family commitments. My wife has said she is glad about that because she has "got a bad feeling about it". After 47 years of marriage, I have come to realise she is usually right.

However, there will be a crew of incurable Evertonians travelling to Old Trafford. It will take guts to make that trip but Everton Football Club has to have someone to fight for it.

At the moment, it looks like you're it, fellas.

I'm even more flattered – thank you! :D

Mike (#270) – don't spoil his fun, he's got a lot to get out.

There is a correlation between us not getting rid of mangers until we are in serious danger of relegation and not winning anything. Happy to be mediocre. Or those in charge are anyway.

Ronald is trying to shoehorn all of his signings into a side with lots of players either out of form, out of position, or both in many cases. With no consistent formation played each week, square pegs in round holes –only for changes to be made at half-time to both the formation and players on the pitch – is not how to build confidence in the players or supporters. This is just a basic lack of football knowledge that Ronald is displaying on many fronts – for the princely sum of ٤m per season!

Ronald needs to eat a big slice of humble pie and go back to basics. Pick a team that has balance, width, pace and players playing in their natural positions – whatever the formation he decides to play. Drop those not performing, whether they are his purchases or not; give some of the kids a chance as they can hardly do any worse than the current expensively gathered selection of individuals, and try and fashion a team out of all of the assets he has at his disposal. If he cannot see this, then he is the wrong man for the job and needs to be binned asap – irrespective of what it costs to get rid because, on current form, if it continues, we'll be in a relegation battle this season – and that is not exaggerating or being defeatist, if we are honest with ourselves as supporters.

Farhad also needs to eat the rest of whatever humble pie is left after Ronnie's portion and realise that he is just as culpable for the current state of affairs on the playing side as Sherlock is. He went all out guns blazing for him as his first choice to replace Bobby Brown Shoes and it's just not working out, given the money he laid out to get rid of Martinez and his team, and get Ronald and his team in, only to fare no better.

If Sherlock doesn't turn things around quickly and get a team capable of playing some proper joined-up footie, getting more than one shot on target per game, and maybe some goals to boot, then things will start to get ugly, Martinez-style, with the Goodison faithful.

If things turn ugly, I believe it's time to batten down the hatches, get Rhino and his passion for the club in the hot seat, and see what he is made of. Get stuck into the best of this current first team squad and blend it with the best of the U23s to fashion a balanced team as it cannot be any worse than the shite the current occupant is dishing out and expecting the faithful to lap up and stomach.

I don't think we need posters acting like trapdoor spiders, flying out on prey: He said that last year, he posted this, I owe you this comeback.

Most people write from current emotions. Martinez in the first season had most of us purring; second season was a big hmmmmmm.... third season: get the fuck out!

My biggest gripe from yesterday, of many to choose from, is Koeman's failure to react to our right flank. Could he not see what almost every supporter could? Ben Davies shot for the second, and set up the third. The kid had a pink slip for the whole game.

Half-time was when I expected the adjustment to the system. Being blind to this obvious exposure terrified me. We may need to aim our vitriol in the same direction.

If this carries on until Christmas, we need to make a change. If no quality replacement is available, appoint Unsworth. He could do no worse and at least his ego and poor man-management won't be a complication.

I'm not blaming Koeman for not addressing the gaping holes in the squad; as far as I can tell, that's the job of Walsh and the Board. But a manager needs to find a formation, system and style that fits the available playing staff. There's no way some of these players are as bad as they appear. Atletico were interested in Sandro, the lad had pedigree and has scored plenty in a top league in a not-so-good team. He is a striker, just not the type Koeman wants him to be.

Sigurdsson is seen as a key man, so why shunt him out wide? It didn't work for Spurs and they had a better team. He should be played central attacking midfield or even central midfield alongside a defensive player. Klaassen needs to be dropped and reintroduced gradually. Our "style" of play bypasses the midfield and he looks lost.

We lack pace up front so cannot sit deep. Play Holgate alongside Keane and push up. Martina is good going forward, is the only player offering any width, overlaps well and gets great whip on his crosses. He had energy and pace too. However, he is is exposed when we just defend. Kenny should be getting playing time. We need to play one of Gana and Schneiderlin; at the moment, it should be Gana first choice. Get Besic and Davies involved. Start Calvert-Lewin up top and integrate Sandro gradually. If Sigurdsson is playing as a No 10, then drop Rooney or shift him out wide in a free role. Get some pace on out left, either Lookman, Mirallas or the new lad.

The squad has holes but is not as bad as it looks right now. It's up to Koeman to quit with the meaningless comments about "pressing, productivity etc" and get on with finding a solution that works for the players we have. That's the minimum I expect for the money he's getting.

He's brought good players to the club, but if you can't communicate your ideas, you're never going to be a success as a manager in any walk of life. I'm sure he doesn't want the players to play like this; but nothing's getting through to 'his' players.

If I was in charge, I'd be sounding out Tuchel, Silva, Dyche, possibly Unsworth. I'd be telling Koeman I want a definable pattern of play and wins in the next two months. Otherwise, I'd swallow my pride, bin him and give the next guy some time before the January window.

I'm no great admirer of Martina but he was a victim of Koeman's tactics – sent out to defend against two, even three, Spurs players on his own yesterday.

Others on TW (and in the press) have commented on our narrowness and on the resultant lack of cover on our right side. "[In the second half still] remarkably Everton failed to shut down Ben Davies on the left" – just one quote from the papers today.

On every occasion, once midfield players moved to help Martina, they left holes in the middle exploited by Spurs. They couldn't believe their luck. Tactics.... not Martina yesterday.

I still advocate a wait until January view due to the fact that we do have so many new players, we are in a very very difficult run, and we have to adjust to the Europa League. Seeing as Koeman improved us in the first season, I think this is only fair.

However, a number of things are concerning me. There seemed to be a lack of passion yesterday – the majority of the players and the manager didn't seem outwardly that bothered by the display. Where are all the captains we are led to believe we have bought? Again, there was a distinct lack of leadership all over the park.

For the first half yesterday, we had 7 new players starting the game. That definitely meant and will mean gelling issues all over the pitch. I get that. But, did that many really need to start all at once against an established, plus very good Spurs team?

We could have utilized a number of players that have been here a season or more and thus introduce the likes of Klaassen and Sandro slowly as I feel they are being hung out to dry a little at the moment. The same with Martina. In the right system, he could be decent; yesterday he was exposed by the system which highlighted his weaknesses, which all players have.

There is also the issue of too many similar players on the pitch at once. Should Klaassen, Sigurdsson and Rooney be shoehorned into the team? It can be argued that they are different players, to be fair; Klaassen could be seen as a box-to-box player, but if he, Rooney and Sigurdsson all play at the same time, then maybe only one of Schneiderlin Gueye should play, not both. What do I know? I am not a professional!

Tactics. I saw a few excellent balls crossed into the box yesterday. But in the first half, who was going to be on the end of them? The two tallest outfield players who are non-defenders, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin, don't play in positions to utilize their height within the box. I was expecting lot more play on the floor and clever reverse passes and the like to open up the opposition.

We have lost to the runners up and the Champions, plus a draw at a Man City side that tore a strip off Liverpool. It isn't going to get much better next weekend either. I think things will improve, but we will be playing a lot of catch-up.

I am not pressing any panic buttons yet. It is now up to Koeman and his expensively assembled backroom staff to start finding solutions; that is what they are paid handsomely to do and that is what they need to do sooner rather than later.

To be fair, they are probably on a learning curve too with so many new players. It is now up to them to utilize the squad properly and get them to gel a lot more because what I saw yesterday was a very disjointed side indeed.

I agree with a lot of what you have said, the solutions are in the squad already!

"Damian Wilde claimed he was delighted with our signings; now he say's in post 72... "Koeman useless, Koeman out, poor player purchasing, poor line-up" He then, rather amusingly, tries to tell us he told us so."

Was I pleased with some of our signings? Yes, I was. What I did say after the Stoke game was that, if we played like that against the top sides, we'd get battered – and we have.

I think you need to calm down, fella – otherwise, you'll have a myocardial infarction; that or an in-patient stay.

Chill bro. Or alternatively someone get Daz an 'I was right about Ron' tee-shirt, that and a lollipop to keep him quiet.

This is not my Everton.

His solution to losing our best striker and a guaranteed source of 25 goals per season is to spend £70m on 3 number 10s and try and shoehorn them all into his starting line-up. Surely buying one and then another striker and maybe a wide player would have made more sense?

We have played the worst football I've ever seen this season. We have failed to score in 10 out of 16 halves of football. They weren't all played against Chelsea and Spurs either. We have only managed more than 1 goal in a game once in 8 attempts. We have only scored twice in 4 league games, both from Rooney, despite looking to spread the goals around the team.

Even he doesn't rate the players he signed just this summer and keeps bringing them off early, only to go again the following game with the same depressing results.

What does anyone believe is going to magically change over the next few months and bring about a positive change? Besides this man fucking off?

Here's a thought: to get rid of Ron now would likely cost a season and a half's worth of wages for him and his crew. If he stays, then Ross will likely go in January for around 㾻m. If Ron goes, maybe Ross will sign a new contract and his value goes up immediately by 㾻m thus financing the severance package.

Not that I am a huge fan of Ross who, to my mind, hasn't learned a thing in the last three years but, if he is a slow learner, then what is Ronald on the evidence so far?

Defeat against Spurs I can take because they are good and a few years further along than us but a shambolic team selection playing without width and with weak defensive players when there is better on the bench does start to make you wonder if he really knows what he is doing. As someone posted above, Mike Walker is coming to mind... shudder!!!!!!

Why he won't give Kenny a game is beyond me.

I wonder if Koeman's appetite for the "project" has tailed off, and his team realise it? They certainly played without any belief, as well as without any tactical nous. I can't recall a more spineless effort.

It's been a bad week, with the Rooney business and now this. So many things are wrong with us and this manager seems not to have a clue what to do about it.

It was mentioned by some on here that this tough opening to the season could leave us down at the bottom. We still have Man Utd to face before we can feasibly gain any points.

One thing is clear – we are going to struggle to get 7th this time.

It's not about getting beat that is bad enough but the manner of the performances over this period and the fucking claptrap that goes with it is fucking embarrassingly shameful.

At least we would have given everyone a laugh instead of this zombie shit football!!

I've re-read this depressing thread and there's actually so much sense being talked here. When you remove the natural inclination to rant at why we are here so quickly in the season, you find it hard to argue with the views on Koeman's performance. He's chopping and changing set ups which for the most part seem to mean we concede so much territory there's almost zero chance of not conceding, and the better teams will capitalise on that. He's struggling and I'm wondering, if we haven't improved by Christmas, whether Mr Moshiri might be the man to break the usual approach at the club and sack him?

As for not finishing 7th, I'm not sure there are teams that are actually going to better us over the season? I think it will be a very congested middle eight but frankly the manager has already decided we are not top four so that's that I guess. Maybe in 10 years time, eh?

The next biggest problem: Koeman has no Plan B and not much cash to flash when the transfer window opens up again, and an injured disgruntled Barkley just to make matters worse. I can see Everton quite easily plummet down the league, because Everton have no back four, no midfield and no attack to speak of.

After the Dour football of messrs Smith and Moyes, we got the Deluded Spaniard now followed by the Dull and Dreary Dutchman. Dear me, how much more Dire can this Dreadful situation Deteriorate?

This has been Detrimental to our Devoted following, whose only Desire is to watch open, entertaining football – not this Dull as Dishwater Drivel!!

But if Lukaku was in yesterday's side, we would not have seen him. He wouldn't have broken sweat. He was also a fraud who didn't give a shit about Everton.

Once sold, Koeman should have brought in a proper striker and not fuck around with signing players we didn't need. (Like Moyes who sold Rooney only to buy a pile of shite...)

And yes, bring in Unsworth as soon as possible and maybe Barkley (once fit) will play his heart out for the club and will be happy to stay.

I'm sure those at the game can see what's going on all over the pitch, so would have a better take on this than me, but yesterday, watching the game on telly, we looked a yard short once again.

Both full-backs are too slow to close down their man and block crosses and this is unsettling the centre-backs. Sorry, lads, but Baines is a liability and any opposing coach will target him; great servant of Everton but his position needs addressing. Koeman knows this as we know.

Schneiderlin looks out of sorts and someone mentioned that he plays well in one of every four games (Mourinho ain't stupid) which is probably correct at the moment.

Another person said that Barkley would have made a difference yesterday – not in my opinion. The spine of Everton is non-existent and we are easy to play against.

My opinion, having watched Klaassen in the Europa League a right few times, was he was a good quick passer and decent engine getting in the box but I always thought he was a little lightweight and it's really going to take him a season working with the fitness team and coaches to get into the right shape for the Premier League.

The Spanish kid is full of running, but how many strikers from Spain have success in the Premier League? He is slowly starting the Deulofeu falling to the ground shite also, which I don't like.

It wasn't Koeman's fault he never got Giroud from Arsenal, by all accounts, but not to have a Plan B ready to go was poor by all at the club.

Five games coming up in 14 days shortly... doesn't bear thinking about!

I think Koeman planned on setting us up 3-5-2 with those two up front. Cuco would have been employed as a right wing-back and not a right-back. The 3 centre-backs would have covered his defensive frailties and allowed him to provide the width. Of course, that plan failed when we didn't buy a decent left-sided centre-back. We look dreadful when trying to use Jagielka in that role. It totally unbalances us.

Giroud and a left-sided centre-back were vital for the system to work and unfortunately we're left with an unbalanced squad. The players that were brought in were all part of this plan and it just doesn't work without those two players.

I'm not excusing Koeman for not having a Plan B, but I do think we have massively let ourselves down in building a team around a system that only works with a Giroud type striker and a left-sided centre-back.

If we had got those players in, and I believe that Koeman thought they were a sure thing, then everything may well have suddenly made sense.

I must reiterate that I'm not excusing Koeman. I think it's a mistake to shoehorn all the summer buys into the team when it's clear that some are being forced out of their natural positions. Unfortunately, promises are made to certain players that they will be starters if they sign.

Koeman needs to get the best out of what he's got until January. Maybe Giroud will have had enough of Arsenal's bench by then, and hopefully we can buy a left-sided centre-back. Coleman and Bolasie will be back and potentially we can have a strong second half of the season.

Playing two holding midfielders without any guile, Why? tThey never do a very good job of protecting the defence or contributing to a pressing game.

We have to go to one defensive midfielder with Sigurdsson in front as our box-to-box midfielder.

Koeman sold Lukaku, he had no choice in that, and has spent the money on pretty average players and didn't buy a striker. Not good.

Unfortunately he doesn't appear to have any idea on how he can get the best out of the players he has bought and keeps repeating the same error of playing his players out of position simply to get them all on the pitch.

I have been advocating a simple 4-4-2 for quite a while now. Calvert-Lewin and Rooney as a front two. This would allow Rooney to move between the midfield and attack as needed. Schneiderlin or Gana as our single defensive midfielder (because two is one too many) in front of the back four and Sigurdsson as our attacking midfielder and playmaker.

Klaassen should be dropped until he realises he's not in the Dutch League anymore. We have Lookman, Sandro, Mirallas, Davies, and Lennon who can all play as wide men. Pick two of them.

Finally, give Jonjoe Kenny a chance at right-back and Holgate in the middle with Keane. We have tried Holgate and Martina at right-back and both have been exposed and failed to impress. But Holgate has the excuse of being played out of position; Martina does not have such an excuse and should be relegated to the bench.

Both Jagielka and Williams are too old and too slow and should also be benched. This side may not be world beaters but at least it uses the players we have in their best positions, gives us some pace up front and out wide, and a better defensive set up until we can get a better centre-back to go with Keane and can get a top striker in. Although, if Calvert-Lewin starts scoring we may not have to.

Agree 100%

If this is the case again, we'll likely get some very shite results, regardless of what Koeman tries to do now, until he's sacked and some spirit and system are introduced.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/apr/21/europeanfootball.sport

It is well worth a read and reconfirms everything we are seeing from "Koeman's Everton" at this time: arrogance, baffling formations and tactics, the ostracization of players and general pig-headed behaviour.

The Board need to act fast because the tide of opinion has definitely turned against Koeman and the rumble amongst our supporters is without doubt going to turn into a roar within the next month.

If Giroud was Plan A, why didn't we have a Plan B? We had weeks to find an alternative to Giroud (after he turned us down) and yet we failed miserably.

Jesus Christ, if he wanted a short term target man, why didn't he go for Crouchy?

The dangerous thing about this situation is how quickly the games come. With playing away in Europe on Thursday, the club will want to give him a game to pick the mood back up.

Lose that game and your playing Man Utd away on Sunday and things could take a horrible turn. It's bad enough now and obviously we could win but it's a low confidence side going into another pressure game now.

You're wrong, I don't do I-told-you-so's, I've been wrong too many times myself to go in for that shit... and even if I did, it would be a tad premature, don't you think? I've seen managers turn worse situations than this around.

Read what I said. I have no problem at all with people changing their minds, nor do I have a problem with people who want to continue to support this manager. It's the hypocrites I have a problem with, the volte face merchants.

When somebody (Damian Wilde) posts – "I'm happy/delighted with our signings and overall squad. I mean FFS. We're even spending millions on players for the Under-23s. Some people are never happy" – he was having a direct pop at the suggestion that we haven't bought the right players. You Know where he stands, right?

Well, you would think so. but when he comes back straight after the window closes and starts calling for Koeman to be ousted, bleating about poor player purchasing and telling everyone I-told-you-so, you kinda realise the guy is a little, err... flakey.

There are a few people changing their minds about this manager. There are also a few who have run out of patience with him and they are perfectly entitled to do so; but those who backed him and are now turning on him because he's having a bad time and claiming they were right all along are simply embarrassing themselves. They are not giving an opinion, they are simply being swayed from one match to another and trying to appear clever. They seem to be under the illusion that other posters are as daft as they are.

Hissy fit? Far from it. These foolish claims by people trying to appear knowledgeable are providing me with the only source of amusement I've been able to find this weekend.

If the cap fits...

I think we all look at Koeman and think "Surely a guy with his background has more to offer?"

There is of course no way of knowing, but your theory about Koeman not being able to communicate his ideas is sounding more and more plausible by the day.

So why bother writing on this thread? Just swap Chelsea for Spurs and save time and effort.

Just waiting for a Newcastle draw or win to put us into 16th position.

Top six finish? Sorry folks, you missed out the 1.

I can take defeat but the manner and can't be arsed, I don't know or care approach by allegedly professional footballers for EFC, is not acceptable.

There's no captain on the park, no game plan and in my view a lack of belief and spirit.

Koeman must get back to basics..survival this season is priority; on current form I can't see where the next win is coming from.

He ain't gonna be given the chop soon, but results will speak and I have to say that at the moment it is shambolic and depressing, the now predictable lack lustre, gutless and tactless performances not just now but for a good quarter of last season.

This is Everton... I'd rather have a decent team than a new ground. What do we know? I'd love to be a fly On the wall next time Moshiri and Kenwright talk about the team.

Next week at Man Utd, and Atalanta on Thursday, they must must get their act together.

nb: Hopefully against Sunderland we will put a decent team out..

Apart from that everything's hunky fucking dory.

I could hardly speak walking to the car after that yesterday. Just didn't know what to say!

Koeman needs to radically change his ideas on how we play the game, if he doesn't he needs to go.

Our main difficulty apart from Koeman, is to attract the very top quality players, it's been the same again this summer.

Our main rivals in the Premier League on the other hand don't have that problem.

Moshiri has become a disappointment as I thought he would as far as buying top players is concerned. Yes, he has done some good things such as lending the club 㿼m to pay off debts, and arranged a 㿨m overdraft facility, while also using his clout to get plans for a new stadium off the ground, all of which are for the benefit of the club.

It's become obvious though that he's not going to splurge his millions on players that many hoped he would. Yes, we have spent plenty of money this summer but have also sold over a 𧴜m of players.

What would brighten the outlook for us I think would be if Usmanov was to buy the other half of the club, but then who knows!

I note that Niasse and Lookman were both outstanding, against Tottenham U23s, we could have done with them both, and a few others yesterday.

Like I've always maintained on here, defeat is never acceptable, but to lose in the manner we have in the last two games leaves a bitter taste and upsets us all.

Then again, who are we, but the mugs who genuinely care and get more upset than the players after humiliating defeats?

Who's next? Atalanta, Don't know a great deal about them, but drastic changes both in personnel, attitude and application are required, or else we may as well get ready for more misery.

Yeah. Still pissed about yesterday really and probably not a good idea to debate when you've just seen such a shocking display of football. Probably not that good either to read TW as words can so easily be misinterpreted. Yep, the blues were bad and there seems to be no immediate answer, so next up is Old Trafford and Lukaku. Great.

Martinez couldn't do it and I don't think Koeman can. I wasn't a fan of Moyes, but he was good at it most of the time. The better communicators tend to get the best out of their players.

There's a belting team in this squad of players, but they need to know what they're doing and where they're meant to be.

Koeman talks a pressing game and we get out-pressed every game. He talks flexibility, the players look confused.

Tuchel, Silva, Dyche and Unsworth have this in spades. Question is whether they can do this with better players and under the pressure to succeed at the level we want?

Next up is Atalanta in the Europa League. A game we will struggle in. Why? Because it's away.

Positivity is still in order as there are two positive outcomes: one that we recover and one that we don't and he gets replaced. There is the possibility that neither happens but we aren't at that point yet.

The other thing is that I can't influence events and coming on here to whinge doesn't help at all.

To be fair, Koeman tried to change events by half-time substitutes which didn't work. I really believe now that was because he is tactically naïve and will never make a manager of tactics or of personnel. My personal opinion is that we have to get rid of him to get a very positive project back on course.

Then again, I think of Kendall and Ferguson. Darren would have fired both and lost Man Utd 15 titles.

Well, who's to say it's not going to happen here? Just a thought, like...

Although we, collectively, tend to blame the players, which they have to burden some of the blame, but they haven't asked to be played, either out of position, or in an unfamiliar role.

Koeman has to shoulder 80% culpability, there are so many mistakes he has made, both in overpaying for players, and bringing Cuco Martina in and giving him a three-year contract to boot.

To add insult to injury, he is almost playing him every game. God help us please.

The plan, whatever it is, isn't working.

3 at the back, or a back 4? Or horses for courses? Williams or Jagielka as first pick in the league?

Players like Klaassen and Sandro, unused to Premier League football, are struggling, and picking up injury. Regular starters or introduced from the bench?

Martina looks better going forward and seems to have some pace, but can't defend to save his life, particularly those bloody headers across the box we've seen too many times now. But he offers width and pace, both of them in short supply.

Under-23 players like Kenny, Lookman, and Niasse are playing well at the only level they can appear for the club. Henen, who I've not seen often enough to judge, certainly has pace and directness through the middle by the look of it, and he's a big lad too. Any chance in Europa League or League Cup at least?

Should we start developing a separate line up for each competition or keep playing predominantly the same players, sometimes in different formations, in all of them.?

Round pegs in round holes for a change? One up front or two occasionally at least? Might help Sandro a bit?

The first-pick back three don't work for me, either through lack of skill on the ball or lack of pace with knock on effects all over the pitch. But Holgate could play there, has played there satisfactorily. At any rate, he must play at right back in a 4, even if it's nothing like his best position. Possibly Martina at right wingback if we play 3 centre halves with Holgate in the 3?

Clutching at straws? Possibly.

Lack of experience of Premier League football is important; in a team struggling to establish itself it becomes doubly important. Maybe Sandro and Klaassen need to be phased in gradually in the league, which would at least mean Calvert-Lewin and maybe Davies is a regular starter. With at least 2 games a week until the end of the year, we will need all of them in any case. Same might be said of Vlasic and the other 3 players mentioned above.

It's pretty obvious that it's not working currently. Some bits are worse than others. Those are the few problems that appear obvious to me, but it's not exhaustive by any means.

I still think we have good players, albeit the squad is imbalanced, but surely we can perform better, even in defeat, for fuck's sake.

In attack, I'd play Niasse and Calvert-Lewin and a big review by January.

In midfield, I'd play Sigurdsson, Gana, Davies and Sandro. Keep reviewing it.

In defence, Kenny, Keane, Holgate, Baines... another big review by January.

A strange breed are Everton managers... and truly annoying.

Incidentally, bemoaning Lukaku's departure and failure to replace is pointless. Ask yourself how many strikers there are scoring 20+ goals a season (very few) and how many of them would want to come to Everton?

Oh and could we afford them if they were actually available? We have to make do with our present squad at least until January so let's just hope they can get their act together asap.

Bit harsh sacking a manager after only 4 premier league games. They played quite well at the weekend and were a bit unlucky... unlike us. Maybe Koeman should take heart from the fact he isn't working for Palace's board.

Last season, Ronnie said we were not fit and to give a few windows, he's over bought on midfielders, plays out of shape and had the same mentality of Moyes when we play the big teams.

He persists with Williams, one of his signings, but chastises Barkley in public; the other two players he seems to have a problem with are players he did not buy, Niasse and Mirallas.

He has benched one of our best players last season, Tom Davies, to accommodate his signings, He has brought in one of his former players on a free, when every man and his dog knows Kenny should be getting his chance there.

Now the old chestnut of give players time to gel, that maybe so but for me and I said it before we brought Ronnie in and others wanted De Boer, we should have given Unsworth a go, he knows what Everton are all about, he gets the best out of the players and plays a balanced team.

It is no coincidence the previous two mangers that landed us Silverware, were Evertonians in Royle and Kendall.

Time to be bold if things do not pick up for the rest of the season and bring Unsworth in along with Royle as his sideman.

Also, I believe Sigurdsson played inside left for Swansea cutting inside on his wand of a right foot and he also linked up quite well with Baines at the weekend so I'd say if Rooney's No 10 he has to play there!!

We need to stop whinging about not having a target man and using the quality we have got in the squad by picking the right player's in the right position's to maximise their abilities!!

I honestly don't know what manager's see sometimes!

4-1-3-2 is the system I'd be trying to use going forward with Calvert-Lewin a starter every week!!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/dec/05/ronald-koeman-az-alkmaar