The board have a big decision to make

Martina - 6? I would have Coleman on crutches before this joker.

I didn't think that Niasse was any worse than other options.

At the moment, I'm even more concerned by the disjointed performances than I am by the results, & I'm very unhappy about the results! If there's no real improvement by the match on 5th November we have a perfect opportunity to change manager.

This timing would still allow the new manager an opportunity to turn things around in advance of the January transfer window, otherwise we'll find it exceedingly difficult to sign anybody worth having.

Also think you will get a lot of bullets going your way appointing Martina as your man of the match; very poor and very very docile.

The only pleasing thing for me today is that the manager at least changed formation, and we didn't have 3 Number 10s shoe horned into the team. I am hoping this means that he is aware of what we are all saying – mainly that we need width and more options up front. I was pleased that Vlasic started – I would have liked to see Mirallas / Lennon / Lookman get an opportunity though, particularly when we were chasing the game.

We've got problems, but I don't want to press the panic button just yet.

Positive statements of intent at the AGM but we need to see real action. We need a clear out at the top, ie, Kenwright and his cronies.

The coming weeks are going to be a real test of Mr Moshiri's ambitions and intent for Everton FC.

We need a strong winning mentality from the top down. 22 fucking years – you miserable shower of cowards and losers.

In my opinion, we've had only one good half of football all season (first half against split). Apart from Pickford, none of the signings have looked anywhere near good enough. The formations haven't matched the players playing in it (three No 10s). The players look completely devoid of any confidence and Koeman doesn't look as though he's actually giving them any.

I think the biggest point now though that shows me he should go, is that now he's making excuses as to why we're not performing instead of holding his hands up and saying "My bad, sorry."

With the possibility of Ancelotti, I think talks need to be had to see if he'd be interested, And without any shadow of a doubt, this time we need a manager with a track record of winning games on a regular basis.

The board gave him money and he fucked up. 5 number 10s. We are not fit. A yard too slow and the attitude is absolute shite. Not one decent performance on the field today.

Our new ground is going to be empty.

None of his summer signings are as good as Barkley, McCarthy, Davies, Mirallas and Lookman. It beggars belief that he won't play the last 2 or start Davies in the league.

He changes the team for every game not giving the chance for his players to gel and messes about with the formation with regularity. And his arrogant treatment of Barkley has backfired on him.

It has to Unsworth now, picking up the pieces.

We don't have a quality striker and we have a lot of players that need time to gel. No manager can take 11 strangers and blend them in to a team overnight.

The simple fact is a new manager will need to start all over again and does not guarantee to be any better. Let's give the man time and hope the injured players can get back and improve us.

We the fans need to stay loyal, lift the players and not get on their backs. Time and patience is needed, not chopping and changing managers.

I don't know if he can sack Kenwright, Wood, Elstone and all the other deadbeats but surely he can remove them from any activities related to Everton FC.

He also needs to replace Koeman and Walsh who, so far, have shown themselves to be incompetent in the extreme. Well, I'm not so sure about Walsh's role in all this but his smug smile pisses me off.

There is a better squad in there somewhere; let someone with balls have it and make us great.

Koeman out, Kenwright out, Woods out, front bench guys out... Unsy in maybe... because all the top managers are in a job.

I still think we have a decent bunch of players, although there is a clear lack of balance. And though we were led to believe that Steve Walsh, was the evil genius behind the success of Leicester City, I tend to think that, just like Leicester, he had a lucky season too; he can join Koeman in the infamous taxi.

Just hope this isn't going to be one of those relegation dogfight seasons.

Don't let him go, there be no improvement – although the fixtures are going to be easier now, I can see us throwing away cheap points – and come November, we might be in a relegation battle.

Being devil's advocate, many of the Premier League sides we've played are in the top half and 3 of the best, we played away. But to counter that, we finished poorly last season so when Koeman refers to the wins we've had since we began the Europa League, it might be worth looking back at the last 5 matches of last season to truly reflect our form under him.

When you look at those, combined with the loss to the Cypriot side and that Niasse saved our skin against Bournemouth, he's being disingenuous. Remember, at Man City we were against 10 men and still barely attacked them.

I can't see a convincing argument based on these results to retain his services.

I am still in shock that the board did not have a Plan B, C, D & E in place if the Giroud transfer did not go through. It did not; nothing seemed to happen for a couple of weeks on the striker, and then the mindless panic set in the last week of the transfer period.

Again, I am not seeing any of the games, so Koeman may have it all wrong on the pitch, but I also think that Everton are missing what should be their key player from the last transfer period to make the team complete. Does sacking Koeman make a difference if we don't have a starting striker on the team?

Given that we just lost at home to Burnley, only managed a draw at home to a no mark side from Cyprus before that and but for Pickford's heel and a minor Niasse miracle would have lost at home to Bournemouth – what change are people realistically expecting over the next 4 weeks?

Whether Koeman is a good manager or not is at this time irrelevant imo. What's clear is that he's lost the dressing room. Too many players are not playing for him and I just can't see that changing. The whole team and squad is a mess as it is.

Mirallas and Lookman seem out in the cold and they're two of the very few pacey attacking players we have.

Rooney, Klaassen and Sigurdsson can't play together, so two of these three are basically pointless. (Why we signed Rooney I'll never know – we pay him £150k a week! Utter joke.)

Davis is the only proper CM we have in the squad, Ghana, Schneiderlin and McCarthy all being CDMs, yet he starts on the bench.

And of course Calvert-Lewin is the only proper striker with any hint of quality, and he's a kid learning his trade! (Despite the Bournemouth game, Niasse is not Premier League standard.)

The whole team and squad set up is a massive WTF??

On reflection you have to wonder how on earth a Premier League club ended up with such an unbalanced squad. And this after spending 𧵎m!

The board need to spend the next couple of weeks looking for a new manager. It's time to end this experiment and bring someone in to get these players playing in a proper formation.

The elephant in the room however is that the board themselves are also to blame. Kenwright ain't going anywhere, unless it's in a coffin, unfortunately. What ever happened to his supposed 'grave illness'? Seems to have made a remarkable recovery after cashing some of his shares for multiple millions.

Times like these that make me question why we even bother.

Sorry. Rant over.

The performances are not getting any better. The team is shapeless, passionless, defensive and because he plays 2 "defensive" midfielders every bloody game always, always on the back foot.

Nil satis nisi optimum my arse!

If this is the case there is only one outcome here, the manager goes. The board need to do some serious thinking, get to the bottom of this mess and find really whats going and make a decision in the best interests of the club.

It isn't the fault of the board – the players are playing poorly and the manager is clueless.

The international break. Thank goodness!

Players criticised last season for being average have been replaced at great expense by a bunch of mediocrities who look even less equipped to perform a pressing game or delivering the productivity the manager said was lacking when he arrived.

Oh for a few of those 'uninspired' wins we recorded at home in the spring. Those days seem a long time ago. Much as I would like to see Unsworth in charge from tomorrow I don't believe anything will be done before the November international break. Given our current malaise it seems highly likely by then we will have lost three cup matches and league matches against Arsenal, Leicester and Watford. That ought to be enough to persuade the Board to act before we play what will be a vital match, Crystal Palace away on 18th November.

Apparently some readers think we are allowing too many personal insults... I admit that, being unfamiliar with the art of botanical insults, this one had me pause.

But quickly consulting the Urban Dictionary*, I learned that it is an acronym for Cocky Ass Cracker Talking Uber Shit.

Hmmm... you may be crossing a line there, fella!

[* Also could mean "Koeman is dead", which definitely crosses a line. Which is it, Simon? ]

"Maj. shareholder @Everton Farhad Moshiri: "We're in a bad moment - but these are early days & Koeman has my total support". @talkSPORT 10am"

Not surprising in itself.

But once again it comes via Jim White. Why is he Moshiri's spokesman? It is getting beyond a joke.

As much as I'm not a fan of his, Kenwright might hold the trump card in this affair. Straight off the bat it was known as Koeman was Morshiri's man, identified by him personally. Kenwright idiotically wanted to keep Martinez and I don't recall Kenwright ever talking or associating with Koeman. I think there's been issues between the two for a while, with the quickly muted rumours of transfer disagreements over the summer.

Koeman has always put transfer/contract talk as the responsibility of the management. I believe that the Rooney return was not wanted by Koeman, but it was pushed by the the romantic Kenwright. Koeman targeted Sigurdsson and Klaassen from the start of the window, but somehow we ended up with all 3.

In the end of the day Moshiri is a business man, and if he sees that something isn't working in business, he would change it. I would imagine Kenwright would be more than happy to have a word in his ear about a change.

If I used the phrase then I'd agree that Koeman is cactus... he's done, his days are numbered, his managerial reign is bereft of life etc... still, beautiful plumage.

I've been picking after the Watford game for a few weeks now. Long enough to see the trend and hopefully, early enough to stop the rot.

I used the expression yesterday to describe Jonathan Rae's chances of winning the second Superbikes race after he had to withdraw and I don't have a bad word to say about Rae.

'Cactus' is Aussie slang for broken or dysfunctional.

"Prickly Pear Cactus (native South American), was brought to Australia in 1788 on the First Fleet. It became a pest, quickly overrunning many thousand acres of farmland. Hence, 'cactus', in Australian slang, means: beaten, finished, ruined, kaput etc. eg, Jim threw just two punches, and Jack was cactus."

Maybe,

"Everton performed dismally, and Ronald was cactus."

Pickford 6 – he did fine, not at fault for the goal, could command the box better, some very good distribution, virtually nothing to do in the 2nd half.

Martina 4 – as Paul says he tries and he works hard to get forwards in a formation that he does not suit, some woeful crosses, loses possession too often too easily, not a great defender.

Keane 5 – he has Williams next to him, confidence seems low, tried hard in the 2nd half, one great run I remember, one of the least of my worries right now.

Williams 2 – this jarg fake Taffy Brummy should be nowhere near the first team, an absolutely appalling reader of the ball with Forest Gump's positional sense, a howler in him whenever the ball comes near him, our worst bad apple by a mile, get rid asap.

Baines 3 – it's over mate, I think; wish you were not going through this, try and get Tierney in January.

Schneiderlin 2 – shite.

Gueye 4 - high work-rate, a lot not coming off for him right now, but then he's hardly alone, nowhere near as bad as some make out, if Koeman hits the road to Damascus, Gueye ought to be our one holding midfielder.

Sigurdsson 5 – a glimmer of hope now and then and to be fair fitness is getting better and more getting about the pitch today, but we should have been 1-0 maybe 2-0 up through the lad.

Vlasic 6 – a breath of hope in dire times and someone who has energy and yes, pace, so why the feck does Koeman rely on wing-backs for width?

Niasse 6 – MotM of the 1st half, tries and runs hard and is no Eddie the Eagle but is no long-term solution, better as an impact sub maybe, he did tire quite quickly second half.

Calvert-Lewin 7 – yes 7, I just well like him, he does not know the meaning of give up, runs, gets into good positions, looks to shoot, better hold-up play will come in time, this lad is class.

Koeman 4 - better starting XI but why rely on full-backs for width, why two holding midfielders home or away, why Williams, why bring Vlasic inside, why no Lookman, erm Kenny.... agghhhhh.

Sadly, more south than north today, way more south.

Everton XI vs Brighton: Pickford - Kenny - Keane - Holgate - Baines - Gueye - Davies - Vlasic - Lookman - Sigurdsson - Calvert-Lewin

IMO the dressing room has never been the same since Moyes left and I do believe there is something rotten at the core at etc whether it be Bill and cronies, cliques of players, or just the management.

Whatever it is Koeman is carrying the can and while I agree with you that we need to be patient (a sentiment echoed by Robbie Mustoe today) This shambles has to be stopped immediately, so Mr Moshiri show us your leadership skills.

There is as much chance of this happening as Ancelloti and Cavani.

At the moment that looks very unlikely. We look like relegation material.

It appears that we have bought a bunch of average players but at least our net spend was only circa 㿔 million. Maybe with a new manager they will look like bargains.

With the exception of Joe Royle it's been decades since we have had a good manager, our board has been a complete dead loss, I hope Moshiri is not going down the same road.

It's so tiresome constantly replacing one bad manager with another or happily sticking with a mediocre manager because he got us to the dizzying heights of seventh on a regular basis. Talk about lack of ambition!

Please hire a winner. Someone with a track record of winning leagues and cups. Pay them the right money and they will come here. Surely it's worth paying the extra wages as the returns will be great success.

There have been various posts asserting to our 'revival' after November last year following a dismal run of 1 win in 12 before that, and using that as a template for giving RK more time. It is telling that after the beginning of December, through to the end of the season, out of 46 goals scored only 11 were from players currently getting game time either because of departure, injury or ostracisation. 2 of those 11 were pens scored by L Baines.

I, like Paul says in the main piece, have been somewhat on the fence regarding how much time RK should get, with one foot in and one out of the 'sack him' camp thinking he would probably resign by the end of October without a marked improvement. My disappointment at the Jim White announcement last night - assuming there is some truth in it and I think there is - brought home to me that I really want to see the end of this tenure as soon as possible.

I can see us achieving nothing this month other than at Brighton possibly although that is no certainty and that is followed by 5 games in 14 days which I expect to be a quite miserable 2 weeks of football. With our squad this is going to be a tough month whoever is in charge and as has been pointed out, if it were possible to get a replacement in place quickly this international break presents the best opportunity for somebody else.

We would not be able to pick up the phone to Mr Ancelotti, Sean Dyche, Tuchel or any of the other names being bandied about and ask them over like ordering a takeaway in, so our best shot at an immediate term replacement would have to be inviting Unsworth to help out.

This would be a huge step up and the pressure and expectations on him would be immense from the off but I don't think anyone would expect miracles within the next month, and in a way that again gives him time to get familiar with, and remould the squad he is inheriting. We then have a reasonable run through to Christmas with the prospect of a transfer window in the new year which he could try and use to target those much needed vacancies in the squad.

Quite simply the prospect of RK being given the rest of the season to try and sort things out is horrific. Even with the bad results there should be some signs of a recovery prospect on the pitch but the body language from the players and RK alike, the total lack of any evident empathy, the lack of purpose and drive demonstrate the complete opposite.

Wayne Rooney's face - forgetting his actual footbal contribution - speaks volumes to me. He is through and through an Evertonian and his evident disappointment and frustration at what is going on is apparent. He can't come out and speak publicly about the malaise but there is an air of resignation about the whole squad and this has to be addressed with urgency. I think maybe the board cannot see it (possible exception BK because I do think he 'knows' the game better than the rest) so they need to listen to and hear the wake up call from players and fans alike. RK must go.

Sadly I think none of the above will transpire and this is going to be a tortuous season to see out. I just hope and pray we stay safe and things can be back on track by August next year. But I shall continue to watch the news hoping to see and hear the announcement most of us want.

Perhaps like Louis van Gaal, Koeman and coaches are being associated with the decline of Dutch football from the era of expansive total football to a stodgy style, lacking flair, confidence and inventiveness.

My take is that, after its ‘succesful' years Dutch football started to take itself too seriously and became over-refined and less concerned with individual skill. In Australia, the governing body adopted a rigid Dutch system for its elite junior competitions. This occurred in 2009 when Holland, at one stage, reached number three in the Fifa rankings. It has since dropped 26 places. In the same period Australia has dropped 29 places.

The current Everton style appears to lack inspiration and direction – it seems too rigid for individual expression. It seems to reflect a national style and approach that has found itself in the doldrums.

He knows how to look after himself and his interests that's for sure, his bank balance proves it, especially since he sold some of his shares to Moshiri with another load to come. He's screwed Everton more than helped them.

I was trying to say that Moshiri might just see a bunch of fans chuntering because they're not happy with results. I think Kenwright sees a bigger picture but isn't the assassin we'd like him to be.

Can't help but feel that if/when Koeman is sacked (and I hope he is), Klassen and Sigurdsson and the fees paid for them will cause us discomfort for considerable time.

Moyes wasn't wanted as while he, in the main, kept us out of relegation battles he wasn't seen as the man to break us into the big time.

Martinez had a good first season but his inattention to detail saw us in an unacceptable lower half (11th) finish in consecutive seasons. (Some irony in that as it was reported that the Board budgeted for an 11th place finish).

Koeman seems to be outdoing both of them in the rush for the bottom after having funds that Moyes wouldn't have dreamt of in his entire 11 year stay with us.

If results don't turn in our favour then I think that David Unsworth with Joe Royle at his elbow should be given first option thus avoiding any new manager having to settle in. He knows the players (and therefore the faults in their entirety), could recall those on loan he thinks can add something and give the Board adequate time to consider who, if anybody, should have the next opportunity and has at least managed a winning EPL2 team. I don't understand the call for Ferguson to share this position as he doesn't seem to have filled the players with enthusiasm and seems to lack any sort of managerial experience and some consider him to be a charitable Kenwright appointment.

Was it not in the press about BK being gravely ill a year or two ago? He's doesn't seem so bad now and it was never actually confirmed what he had (or didn't) have. His recovery also coincidentally ties into him cashing his shares for multiple millions (yes I am a cynic).

Either way, I'm not wishing the guy dead, just saying he has no intention of ever leaving his post as EFC chairman as he's living his own dream. Hence he'll be around until his last breath.

Yes, that's exactly why I'd prefer not to speculate on whether his illness was genuine. We don't know. The two events in close proximity, cashing-in the shares and "his recovery", might not be related. Any "recovery" might be the pressure being taken off being the majority owner. There might have been no significant recovery. All speculation (I guess!).

Anyway, no need to go over old ground. We can both agree on one thing and that is BKs going no where on the near future.

Whether the dressing room has been lost and the team aren't playing for Koeman or age is catching up but Williams, Jagielka and Baines are not doing it (i'm ignoring Martina for now) and we're struggling to field a recognised striker/goal scorer.

I completely get that Rooney was benched and may be that was to see if the team could play without him? If it was the latter, Koeman 100% fielded the wrong player in that position.

From what I can tell, Koeman has reverted the team to a system that worked well in the mid 90s with 5 at the back including 2 wing backs - 20 years too late!!! Then add the two defensive midfield players and you've got a defensive team with no hit man.
If Koeman wants to have an attempt at saving his job then he has to go 4-4-2 and no f*cking about.

Pickford

Martina(?), Keane, Holgate, Baines

Mirallas, Gueye (DM) ,Ramirez (AM) , Davies

DCL, Niasse

I guarantee the forwards would get plenty of opportunities with that team.

It's so frustrating as there was lots of promise and positivity in pre-season but now abject disappointment.

The answer most Everton fans give when asked how we can turn it around is to say they would not know where to start! Now that is a very bad sign for a club that has just spent 𧵎 million.

Let's face it, we have some very good players, and I think nearly everyone on TW could have put a team out on Saturday, to beat Burnley, who are a grafting team, who also collectively, cost less than Siggurdsson alone.

Week in week out, TW'ers put a suggested line up on a post, the one that Koeman goes for, bears little resemblance to any of them.

Like the progressive England managers, they stick with the same players, when it is crying out for change, introduce some new blood, give fringe players a chance!

I think the longer it is left, we will reach a point where we are in a relegation scrap, out of Europa, and both domestic Cups.

Very few people watch the pre-match warm up but I find it very informative. On Sunday the Everton squad was split into the usual two groups, selected team and the subs, and they half-heartedly went through a series of exercises, a bit of grid work before aimlessly kicking balls to one another.

Burnley on the other hand worked together as a match day squad and although there was some similarity with Everton's preparations, Burnley did everything with intensity and purpose. They also did some unopposed ball work. A series of passing movements, getting the ball wide and crossing it for strikes on goal just as Spurs did the other week.

If the board is reluctant to get rid of Koeman then the first team coaches should be shown the door.

In fact (and apologies for the language) I'll go further, he's a 'mirror', an 'elephant' and a 'vacuum.'

My answer is YES. This is exactly what happens when you have a bad manager and your confidence has gone. Players make mistakes, players hide. At least Williams isn't hiding.
The 45m star signed to replace Barkley who was a dead ball specialist asked Rooney to take a corner at one point.
The players are completely drained of confidence and their performances are suffering because of the manager. And when you are nervous mistakes are made. Koeman must go,
NOW!

The rest I agree with.

Davies would interest the top 4 Andy. So would Ross. Keane maybe.

I do get your point mate!

Moyes, a pencil case? Martinez a Playtex living Bra?