For how long does this go on?

By Paul Traill 20/10/2017 86comments  |  Jump to last

Since Katja finished her maternity leave and went back to work, getting to weeknight games has become that little more tricky. I used to be able to simply finish work, get changed and drive straight to the game. Now, however, I have to go back to nursery and pick up my boy, take him home and wait for Katja to get back from work, then get changed and then drive to the game…picking up Ste on the way. Resultantly, parking is a bit more difficult but we got a space OK and did find time for a pint in The Medlock before making our way to Goodison Park.

The team news once again left us baffled. We aren’t in a position to chop and change a team so much, that said, it’s difficult to call it “chopping and changing” when you don’t know what your best team is. I was staggered that Wayne Rooney wasn’t even in the squad, and surprised to see Gylfi Sigurdsson not involved in the starting XI. That said, I was pleased to see Kevin Mirallas get an opportunity, and it was nice to see Nikola Vlasic get another game.

The few minutes pre-kick off represented everything I loathe about modern football. Z-Cars rung out and, as per, you would expect the players to run out onto the pitch, but no, the players had to wait until Z-Cars had finished so they could trot out to the official Europa League theme music. They then had to wait for a while for the “Fairplay Handshake” to commence, before first posing for their team photo, and then the mixed team photo. It all takes too long and stunts the atmosphere.

We finally got under way and managed to shoot ourselves in the foot in no time at all when Mason Holgate, stupidly, went flying in rashly on Marcal. Nabil Fekir converted from the penalty spot and in six minutes we were a goal down. From there we really struggled to get going. It was tough to watch, and we almost went 0-2 down when Memphis Depay’s free kick was deflected onto the upright off a relieved Tom Davies.

Backed by our vociferous and angry crowd, we did eventually pressure a little before the break and Davy Klaassen forced Anthony Lopes into a save with a somewhat timid effort which characterised our performance at that point. We were timid, playing with fear and bereft of confidence. Indeed we could have been further behind had Depay shown more composure when through on goal, and also when Bertrand Traore curled an effort just the wrong side of the post.

Ronald Koeman had to change something at the break and it was no surprise that Davy Klaassen was the man to make way, with Ademola Lookman getting 45 minutes to prove himself. We began the half brightly before fading, however the mass brawl between the two sets of players really lit the blue touch paper and the intensity notched up exponentially. “That may be a turning point in our season” said one of the fella’s who sits near us. Given the full time result this may not be the case, but it certainly felt like it for a while, not least when Ashley Williams, the villain of the piece in the proceeding brawl, powerfully headed in his free header to level the scores from a delicious Gylfi Sigurdsson delivery.

We roared the team on and really had Lyon on the back foot with a succession of corner kicks, all of which began when Sigurdsson’s delivery curled onto the post before it was headed away to safety. Frustratingly, and as has been the case this season, it wasn’t to be and we were punished for giving the ball away far too cheaply. Cuco Martina’s pass to Sandro Ramirez wasn’t the kindest, but the Spanish substitute still gave the ball away woefully and substitute Maxwell Comet was in business down our left. Not for the first time this season, actually, it feels more like the 100th time, Ashley Williams failed to arrest the danger and the low cut back was well improvised by Traore to put Lyon back ahead. Having now seen the replay, you can see how fortunate it was, with the ball bumbling in off Michael Keane.

With still 20 minutes remaining (including stoppage time), you felt if we could grab a goal we might just sneak the win, but our reaction to going behind was poor, almost deflating and the players had no ideas. Dominic Calvert-Lewin had a header kept out by Anthony Lopes, and Ashley WIlliams side-footed a volley wide but that was about it from us. Actually, the defeat could really have been worse and would have been if not for Jordan Pickford’s heroics. Defeat leaves our Europa League campaign hanging by a thread.

It would of course, be remiss of me not to mention the pathetic gamesmanship and injury feigning from the Lyon team. They were doing it from as early as the eight minute. It was really as bad as I can ever remember seeing and the referee should have got a grip on it a lot sooner, or at least played the correct amount of time for stoppages. Again, it highlighted a lot of what is wrong with today’s game.

So how long does this go on before Ronald gets the boot? The team’s confidence is shattered and I don’t believe Ronald knows his best team. There is far too much instability on the pitch and we have to find our best one and stick to it, or at least define a nucleus of our best team so players can begin forming partnerships and working with each other.

I don’t think Ronald Koeman should be sacked yet, but it’s becoming harder and harder to defend our performances. In his defence, with trying to bed in so many new playters, the fixture list has been brutal. The Premier League fixtures have been tough, as has the Europa League group and we don’t even have respite in the Carabao Cup.

There has also been fine margins which really could have made things very different this season. What if Mason Holgate didn’t inexplicably head the ball back into his own box away at Manchester City? What if Dominic Calvert-Lewin put that great chance away against Apoel Limassol? What if Gylfi Sigurdsson put away one of them early chances against Burnley? What if Michael Oliver gave us that really clear penalty at 0-0 against Brighton? That’s not to say things have actually been rosy. Far from it in fact. Our insipid defeats against Tottenham Hotspur and Atalanta in particular were horrendous, and in them tighter games of fine margins, we have been anything but convincing, but, had a few of these moments gone our way, the players confidence would be nothing like as frail as is the case.

I’m not one for sacking managers quickly. I like to see managers given the opportunity to build a team. Do you want us to become a Watford, or a Leicester City, with knee-jerk sackings? It hasn’t been our style and I want to believe it can work under Ronald Koeman.

That said, the pressure is on, and failure to beat Arsenal, a Carabao Cup exit at Chelsea, and defeat at Leicester City would pretty much make his position untenable, and the atmosphere would be toxic in the next home game against Watford, particularly with an international break looming.

It really is sink or swim time for Ronald Koeman. Now more so than ever.

Player ratings

Pickford: It probably says a lot about our performance that he was our man of the match. One o the very few positives of the season so far. 8

Martina: I can’t believe we’ve found ourselves in a situation were Cuco Martina is our back up left back. How have we gone from having an abundance of left backs to choose from (Leighton Baines, Luke Garbutt, Brenden Galloway, Bryan Oviedo, Ramiro Funes Mori, Gareth Barry), to just Leighrton Baines. I actually think Martina is a half decent player, but at right back, not on the left side. Every time he had the ball he had to cut back inside and the tempo of the attack would often break down. Needless to say, he struggled. 5

WIlliams: Scored a good headed goal, but was culpable for their winning goal. Should also have been sent off for his involvement in the brawl. 5

Keane: Did pretty well. I’d like he and Jagielka to form a partnership at the back for now. 7

Holgate: Is struggling at right back and should be brought out of the firing line for a while I think. Gave away a stupid penalty and never really looked that comfortable coming forward. 4

Schneiderlin: Goes to ground WAY too much. It’s all well and good when it works but he gets caught out to often. Looks a doubt for the weekend following his injury. 5

Klassen: If I was to rate him after about 30 minutes I’d have probably given him a 2, but he was slowly getting into the game come half time but was then substituted. It was the correct call to take him off though I think. 5

Mirallas: We might as well get him in the team. We need a better attacking option and Kevin Mirallas, whatever you may think of him, is capable of a bit of magic here and there and is at least a positive, attacking player. 6

Vlasic: Speaks volumes that he is already one of our most consistent players this season. A shining light amidst dark days. 7

Davies: 10 out of 10 for effort. Perhaps guilty of overdoing it with his passes but he certainly gave his all. You can’t knock a lad for trying. 6

Calvert-Lewin: Effort was there and his all round game is good, but he really needs to be converting more of these chances. It is a bit unfair to expect so much from him though. We really messed up not signing that striker. 7


Lookman (for Klaassen): Had a few bright moments but without much end product. There’s been a lot of clamour for his involvement, though I’m not sure he will benefit the team massively at this stage. 5

Sigurdsson (for Schneiderlin): I hope he’s now finally found his range from set-pieces. Some of his deliveries were exquisite. Sadly he failed to galvanise his team mates when he was needed as we chased the game. 6

Ramirez (for Mirallas): Made a poor mistake for their winner, and a few neat passes aside, offered little else. 5

Reader Comments (86)

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Zaid Omar
1 Posted 20/10/2017 at 06:39:42
Good article, Paul. I have also gone through the 'what if' scenarios and wondered would our situation be any different if those moments went in our favour?!

But then I think of the last minute spectacular save from Pickford against Stoke (where we were pretty average throughout first half), the one on one miss from Defoe when Bournemouth were one up – those were our two victories this season in Premier League and it could easily have gone the other way.

The football has been overall absolutely rubbish with no sign of any improvement in results! Koeman has to go.

Dean Johnson
2 Posted 20/10/2017 at 06:59:23
Yep. I think it says a lot about our situation when Paul Traill is clutching at straws trying to find a reason not to sack Koeman.

Great write up as always, fella.

Kunal Desai
3 Posted 20/10/2017 at 07:02:31
Koeman is now on the brink. Everyone knows it. It's now just a matter of which game he departs after. If its a heavy defeat against Arsenal, he will be gone.

I don't think Koeman one bit of respect for this club. This was indicated in his arrogance when he signed to become manager but thought his holiday appeared much more important than his new position.

Publicly slating Barkley not just once but a few times, you just don't do that as a manager. He doesn't want to be a part of this club, it's a 9-5 for him and he's probably out the door bang on 5. Get rid of him.

Andrew Bentley
4 Posted 20/10/2017 at 07:08:20
Good article, Paul, and always good to see your perspective on the game, but I have to disagree with some of your player ratings.

Mainly Keane. He was woeful tonight. As a defender he looked slow, out of position, timid, and he made mistake after mistake, consistently giving the ball away. For the money we paid I expect a lot more.

I felt sorry for Ashley tonight as although he didn't have a great game he is taking a lot.of the stick and focus, but his defensive partner is not helping him. Keane, along with Klaassen, Ramirez, Martina, and Schneiderlin, all don't look anywhere near the level they should be.

Christopher Dover
5 Posted 20/10/2017 at 07:12:48
How many more games do we give the manager?

It is not working and no real signs of it gelling so what options? Stick with him and let the team (if there is one) loose more and more confidence playing in a drab and poor performing season, this after a poor finish to last season? Or sack him and introduce someone with drive and a way to form a team who can pass forward with some pace, and provide some entertainment?

My vote is sack him, who comes in I don't know and above my pay grade to decide, the manager is on a fortune so no pity for him as he will pick up a king's ransom to leave and no doubt be offered another position while we at Everton look to someone to pick up the pieces to get us away from the relegation threat.

Ross Keeley
6 Posted 20/10/2017 at 07:27:55
Agree with most of this but I thought Keane was dreadful last night.
Steve Hogan
7 Posted 20/10/2017 at 07:30:46
I think you'll find yourself pretty much a 'lone voice' in the dark, Paul, if you believe Keane did 'pretty well'; he had an absolute shocker, possibly his worst game for Everton since he arrived at the club. Whether he is still carrying an old injury, I don't know.

I know it's all about opinions, but I thought Lookman did okay actually, and at least had the French defenders back peddling, for the time he was on the pitch, I thought he contributed more than a 5?

On a general theme, I think if and when we slip into the bottom three, some eight weeks before the transfer window opens again, I simply don't see how Koeman can survive.

He knows it, the player's know it, and probably the board as well.

Duncan McDine
8 Posted 20/10/2017 at 07:36:31
Thanks for the write-up, Paul... I couldn't watch the game and can't really be bothered with the highlights, so it's good to get a feel for how the night unfolded. i'm not sympathetic about your nursery pick up though... at least you get to the game! I'm only back at the odd match now my kids are 4 and 5!

It feels like a matter of time regarding Koeman's sacking. I've been waiting for that ‘Oxford' moment... or at the very least that ‘Phil Neville' moment (tackle on Ronaldo) that could change our season. It sounds like the ‘heads-gone' Williams moment only got us going for a few minutes!

Daniel Lim
9 Posted 20/10/2017 at 07:51:24
I hope for a message from Everton app tomorrow morning when I wake up that says "Everton FC regrets to announce that Ronald Koeman has left his position as First Team Manager with immediate effect."

That's exactly what I got on 13 May 2016, 10 minutes past midnight (GMT + 8), with "Roberto Martinez" instead of "Ronald Koeman".

I still keep that screenshot in my phone's photo album. Am I sick or what?

Anthony Hughes
10 Posted 20/10/2017 at 07:53:42
Have to disagree with the assessment of Keane. I thought he was awful last night. Ponderous and slow to react and his distribution from the back was poor.
Charlie Lloyd
11 Posted 20/10/2017 at 08:10:56
Thanks for your summary and opinion of events Paul.

May I add though. I thought the much maligned Williams was actually the pick of the centre-backs tonight. He positioned himself better and his distribution was okay. He could have got tighter for their second but overall he was sort of okay. Probably a 6.

Keane though was poor. As the game went on he just got worse. If it wasn't for Pickford saving from several chances that came via Keane's poor performance it would have highlighted how bad he was. His distribution was poor also. Two examples being the ball he lofted about 20 yards over Holgate's head into the Bullens Road and the pass to Lookman who was marked closely by 2 Lyon players.

The worry for me regarding Keane is how immobile he looks. He's not happy running into the channels or facing a striker with the ball running at him and he's quite slow on the turn. He didn't get exposed like this at Burnley and it's showing. Any opposing manager will look at this and tell his strikers to exploit the area left by the Everton right-back going forward because they'd have a chance of skinning the centre-back.

That's not the only issue we have but one I felt I'd mention here. If I started on the rest, it would be Christmas before I'd finish.

John Charles
12 Posted 20/10/2017 at 08:14:06
Paul, thanks for the write-up – it is always interesting to see how other b people saw the game. I think you are generally more generous than me and the “what ifs and small margins” miss the point that we have been woeful all season and, to be honest, large patches of last.

This isn't Koeman's first season, he has had time. 3 transfer window, bundles of money and he has irrefutably made our team worse. Why is sacking a very poor manager becoming a Watford or a Leicester? Watford are fourth and Leicester not long ago champions by the way.

To answer the question how long can this go on? The answer is it can't.

Andrew Heffernan
13 Posted 20/10/2017 at 08:23:12
I don't like to see a manager fail but I just don't see him turning this around.

Andy Meighan
14 Posted 20/10/2017 at 08:33:01
Don't know what game you were at... Keane 7? He was shit – as he has been for weeks. He looks as stiff as a porn star's knob.

I thought this lad was going to be a cracker... No. I was so wrong; he's just another Koeman / Walsh fuck-up.

Liam Reilly
15 Posted 20/10/2017 at 08:34:12
I enjoy your write-ups Paul but can't agree with some of the ratings.

Williams (albeit should have been sent off) was our best defender last night and at least he showed that the shirt mattered.

I also don't agree Sandro was at fault for their second; Martina hammered the ball at him from a short distance.

Also, Holgate is not ready for the first team. He had a shocker and at one stage took a shot at Pickford with a back pass.

His demeanour after the game,smiling ear to ear when Koeman is giving the ref both barrels, just says it all for me. I took a picture of it on my TV:

Rick Tarleton
16 Posted 20/10/2017 at 08:42:27
I concur with almost everything stated above about Koeman. He does not respect the club, his man-management skills are non-existent and I despise his faux honesty which is basically an attempt to say that it's anyone's fault but his.

I firmly believe that he signed for Everton because the salary was excellent, but quickly realised that there was a glass ceiling that he was unable to overcome. To reach the "big six" was beyond his and Everton's capability at present.

I feel that he is actively trying to be sacked, ridiculous as that sounds, so he can take full compensation for the cancellation of his contract. The Everton board are reluctant to sack him because it would be very expensive, especially if a new manager wanted a transfer chest to improve this ageing and unbalanced squad.

I feel that Koeman would like to take Advocaat's job as national manager as after this fiasco, no top club would look at him. He is cynical in his whole approach.

Martinez was merely "a cock-eyed optimist", Moyes a dour defensive man who was risk-averse, but Koeman strikes me as having no warmth or respect for this club, its players and fans.

He needs to go, expensive as that will be. We need a manager that cares, if only for his own professional pride.

Alex Mullan
17 Posted 20/10/2017 at 08:43:54
Everytime Martina got the ball, I cringed.

Holgate needs to be loaned out. Mistakes are normal in young players and he should be making them on loan in the Championship.

Sandro is fucking dire. I forgot he was subbed on as he was so ineffectual until he made a balls of it with Martina.

Klaassen just looks utterly desperate.

Williams is a thug and a liability. He isn't fit for the shirt.

Only men I felt gave anything were Vlasic, Pickford, Davies and Mirallas. No idea why he took Mirallas off.

Michael Lynch
18 Posted 20/10/2017 at 08:50:08
I just hope a new manager can get this bunch of misfits playing to the level of their wage packet, if not their ability. Vlasic is indeed the only bright spot at the moment, though he is far from the finished article, needs to work on his decision-making, and would benefit from some decent players around him.

Sandro, Keane and Klaassen all came to Everton with glowing reputations – what has happened?

Holgate might make a decent central defender at some point, though I doubt it, but at the moment he is a dreadful right back.

As Mirallas and Vlasic both spent the whole match cutting inside, I wonder if it would have been worth swapping them for a quarter of an hour, and letting them take on defenders on the outside? But what do I know, eh?

Eddie Dunn
19 Posted 20/10/2017 at 08:50:57
Keane was exposed, as was Williams last night, but their jobs were made harder by the selections of the two fullbacks. Holgate is not a right back and Martina was on the wrong side of the pitch. These selections by Koeman illustrate his folly.

The defensive unit has to work as a whole and once there is weak point on one side or the other, the centre backs get pulled over to compensate. Keane therefore was understandably more pressured than usual.

Of course, this is the reason why Koeman feels the need for two defensive midfielders, week-in and week-out. We were caught out regularly by the counter-attacks with no Schneiderlin or Gueye to soak up the pressure.

There is a lot wrong here and it isn't all going to change with a bit of confidence,as our manager tells us. The players are not up to it.

Holgate should wait for his chance at centre half, once he has put on a stone in weight, Martina should have been played only on the right , and only as a back-up player. Sandro is impotence personified – he is miles off a Premier League player,and Klaassen is adapting too slowly.

We could have done with Rooney's experience out there, and one wonders why we sold Barry – his nous would have steadied the ship. Schneiderlin isn't fit to lace his boots.

As for Williams, he played with passion and gave everything. I can forgive him getting done for pace for their goal, but his equaliser was marvellous and if the rest of the lads had his fight, we would have won it.

Koeman was right about the way the French dived and the ref should have put a stop to it. I hate that aspect of football. However, they broke with purpose and pace and their play was creative whilst ours was predictable.

Andrew Clare
20 Posted 20/10/2017 at 09:04:26
I find it strange that the pay-off is a problem when sacking a manager. Clubs will quite happily spend 㿀 or 30 million on a player but baulk at a manager receiving a 㾶 million pay off. Even when it is obvious that the longer said manager stays in the job the harder it will be for his replacement.

When I was a kid I was proud to be an Evertonian; after last night, I just feel embarrassed.

For all Moshiri's money, I don't think he has a clue about football – just like the other idiots running our club. I have no doubt that when Koeman finally gets the chop we will again appoint the wrong man.

It's a dead cert that we will lose to Arsenal and Chelsea and be thrashed by Lyon in France. Bad times.

Len Hawkins
21 Posted 20/10/2017 at 09:18:42
Regarding Keane and every other player who is not at a standard to make a worthwhile contribution: Did They Start in that frame of mind when they came? If not, what has taken them to the level we are witnessing at present? The only conclusion I can come up with is the coaching. Has Koeman and his backroom staff found the magic formula for turning good players into bad ones with consummate ease.

King Midas in Reverse is par for the course with the last two managers. I honestly cannot for the life of me understand why Kenwright, who is misty eyed at the mention of the great players who have worn the Royal Blue, can sit and watch this absolute demolition of Everton FC, week after week.

When you are watching for a Russian at Arsenal coming to the rescue of Everton and firing off the incompetents at the figurehead of this once great club it shows what a horrible mess the board have made of Everton.

The final scene for me is Kenwright after the relegation match standing at the front of the Directors Box and ripping off his coat and shirt to reveal that horrible red shite shirt worn by the gobshites over the park and laughing that horrible laugh the villain always performs.

David McMullen
22 Posted 20/10/2017 at 09:24:48
Koeman has to go. Any upturn last night as far as I'm concerned is the players going out and trying for the club, for the fans. "Fuck Koeman", I think they're saying. I say any 'upturn' because we still lost, still screwed up, still got players who are just ineffective.

As for Koeman, do Everton have the balls to sack him (a) to end the misery, and (b) admit defeat where Koeman is concerned?

Tony Abrahams
23 Posted 20/10/2017 at 09:25:12
Charlie @11, some good points about Michael Keene, things that nobody could really disagree with, mate, but if he was protected at Burnley, I think it's been the complete opposite for him at Everton.

I never went, chose to vote with my feet, because I can't believe Koeman is still in charge and, although it's comfortable in the house, I don't believe that you see the same game. Hats off to those that did go, especially because it was clear how much the fans tried to get behind the team, and if Holgate was smiling, although this is a disgrace, it also shows he must have no time for this manager.

Koeman has got to go today, because the man's gone. He says the players can't play the way he wants at the minute, so they will have to play more direct? This would be fine if the shape of the team was okay, but it's not, it's all over the place, and it's making everyone look poor, and is also sucking the life out of the players.

Tony Marsh
24 Posted 20/10/2017 at 09:25:34
I have said it before and got laughed at on here but I honestly do think Ronald Koeman is sabotaging the games at Everton. Koeman wants the sack and wants his pay-off.

This job was only ever about money for him. I mean let's face it why else would Koeman continue on his path of self destruction? The whole world can see what Koeman does is wrong.The man is either very stupid or one crafty fucker.

If it's Koeman is not purposely self-imploding then he doesn't have a clue about football and should be fired immediately. The players at the club have sussed Koeman for what he is and have downed tools accordingly.

I am not saying It is right for players to with draw their labour but It happens. It happened at Anfield when Hodgson was manager and at Chelsea at the end of Mourhinios tenure. Koeman is playing us for mugs and the players know it. As for the wasters who run the club well the mind boggles. Those of you out there who think Moshiri is some kind of genius who will save us think again.

Moshiri already has shown what an utter tool he is when it comes to football related matters or is the Billionaire Iranian at the bollocks also? To me it appears the whole set up at Everton is rigged for some ulterior motives with Kenwright pulling the strings and Moshiri acting as the mouthpiece. None of what is happening makes any sense to me. None of this bullshit sits well. Please tell me there are others out there who can see it?

I have been saying for years now that the Everton fan base is the best in the world but also the most gullible. We as supporters are that desperate for any crumb of success or good news we lap any old shit up. That's how Kenwright plays us because he knows us so well.

If Koeman isn't sacked after we lose to Arsenal on Sunday or he doesn't resign in shame then everything above must be true? As painful as it sounds the explanations for all this mismanagement are starting to wear thin.

Koeman is a fraud – just like Kenwright, Elstone and Moshiri – and there is nothing we can do about it but watch our club go down the shitter. It's about time our fans stopped going in to the ground on match days as it's all we have left.

I will not go to another game as long as Koeman is still the boss. I suggest others do the same, or at least turn on Koeman with some passion inside the stadium.

Dave Ganley
25 Posted 20/10/2017 at 09:35:22
Good report, Paul, although like others, I thought Keane had an absolute shocker last night. Mason Holgate is just not a right-back now, and Martina is not a left-back.

I have been an advocate of Koeman and thought he was the right man for the job. Last season, we solidified from the mess Martinez left and I thought we would kick on this season. How wrong I was. Players constantly played out of position, no team consistency, no shape to the team, no attacking intent... to be honest, this is no different to the Martinez years. It's aimless, uninspiring, going-through-the-motions football. I really can't see what Koeman is trying to achieve and this is coming from someone who supported him.

I thought Lyon were well worth their win. Granted we hit the post a couple of times but they could and should have had a few more. I haven't seen the replay for their 2nd goal but in real time I have to say it looked like a clever goal. It completely knocked the stuffing out of us. No fight no heart. Where have I said that before?? It seems like it's been a repetitive theme over the last few seasons.

I despair of Everton these days. It's becoming a chore to go to the game again. I had to force myself last night to leave the house. Martinez and now Koeman have left me feeling like this. It's never been a chore to go to Goodison before that. Even when we were really crap in the mid to late 90s.

On another thread a few days ago, some of the older guys (sorry about saying 'older') were reminiscing about the sixties and seventies. A time when our motto meant something. One of them was saying how Gordon Lee was sacked when finishing in the upper reaches of the division (4th). It's wasn't good enough.

How low have we sunk? We have a manager who suggests that we shouldn't have lofty ambitions. We haven't won a trophy for over 22 years now. Disgraceful.

I always expect us to win, I don't think the players or management or board have thought that way for a long time. The club has been rudderless since the European ban in the 80s. No planning for a return, just sat there whining about how unfair it was. Ffs it was behaviour worthy of a kopite!! No planning for the advent of the Premier League. It's just all been downhill for years.

We tolerate slight improvement just because it wasn't as bad as the season before. How on earth did it come to this? We were once a force in English football. Peter Johnson and Bill Kenwright have overseen the massive decline in that. We are also-rans.

When you look at the likes of Spurs, who haven't won a league title since 1960, being talked about how big a club they are, then it shows how far we have fallen. We need huge change in the club and that starts at the very top.

Kenwright needs to go and take that plucky loser attitude with him. He brings nothing but misery. He's no Evertonian, just someone holding onto power at whatever the cost. Blimey even Mike Ashley has got the message. Just fuck off, Bill, and let someone run the club who knows what they're doing. If not ,then all the new stadiums in the world won't change the fact that we will still be hitting that glass ceiling with that idiot in charge.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum? Yeah right, it's only the fans who remember what that means.

Anthony Newell
26 Posted 20/10/2017 at 09:40:09
I'm not sure 'showing the shirt matters' equates to pushing into a player pub brawl style. He should have gone for that idiocy and lack of respect
Anto Byrne
27 Posted 20/10/2017 at 09:51:15
Man Utd got rid of Moyes and we got Martinez. I thought we were going to get places with Koeman but he is a sorry excuse for a manager, playing without passion. It wasn't until Williams did a thuggery that we tried to have a go.

At least with Duncan Ferguson and David Unsworth, they at least know what they want. Fuck it, I can't take any more of this shite from Koeman.

Tony Abrahams
28 Posted 20/10/2017 at 10:01:14
Very good post, Dave, just don't give soft lad the time of day if he gets on trying to defend you know who.

Tony Marsh has got you-know-who, down to a "T" but, if it's Moshiri who is calling the shots, he's got to swallow his pride right now because Ronald is never going to resign.

He's fucking skint, can't even afford a razor, and can't even look the interviewer in the eye, "because the eyes never lie, Chico" and this fella knows he's finished!

Andy Meighan
29 Posted 20/10/2017 at 10:06:54
Heartfelt posts from Marshy and Dave there and the both of them spot on I'd say. This is the lowest I've felt as an Evertonan in a long, long time. It was nowhere near as bad as this under Martinez. So it shows how bad things are.

Forget Europe. Looking at the table I'd say we need 10 more wins. I don't think this squad is capable of it. Worrying times ahead.
Nitesh Kanchan
30 Posted 20/10/2017 at 10:10:18
Paul, you don't want Koeman to be sacked but contradicted it by the title of the post.
Liam Reilly
31 Posted 20/10/2017 at 10:20:02
I obviously wasn't talking about the brawl, Anthony, and I don't condone it – especially the idiot with the young lad in his arms. I said he should have gone.

I was referring to his attitude throughout the game – he looked like he cared, which couldn't be said for the majority of them. When he scored the goal – which by the way was the first time this season I've really heard Goodison roar, it ignited the players and their belief.

Small margins – if Sigurdsson's free kick goes in off the post – different game.

John Maxwell
32 Posted 20/10/2017 at 10:46:17
I cant see anyway back for Koeman now. I think he will be gone by November. Most of our new signings over the summer, just haven't worked:

Klaassen looks to weak
Sandro is the Spanish Brett Angell
Rooney done for drink driving.
Cuco Martina wtf?
Keane looks rubbish last night

You can pick out Williams and Schneiderlin – both have been shocking this season.

Koeman has been badly let down by his players, but I do think he has bought some good players, Sigurdsson, Vlasic... Calvert-Lewin is going to be some player just not yet.

The problem is: Who comes in and turns this team around?

No quick fix I'm afraid.

Anthony Newell
33 Posted 20/10/2017 at 10:48:01
Fair do's, Liam. He looked like a different player which was really good to see and I celebrated like the rest of us when he scored. You could also see in his celebration what it meant to him, he knows what the fans think.

However, lunging into that player and swatting him off like a piece of rubbish was not befitting of someone carrying the captains armband. I honestly thought he was off at that point. He also reminded us of his shortcomings when he lost the player for their second.

When the post mortem inevitably happens and player purchases are scrutinised, you'd definitely have to say Swansea have had our pants pulled down on more than one occasion.

Nitesh Kanchan
34 Posted 20/10/2017 at 10:55:04
Liam, can you upload the picture somewhere?
Nitesh Kanchan
35 Posted 20/10/2017 at 11:23:13
Aitor Karanka is available.He was assistant to Mourinho at Real and then came to Boro, got them promoted but was sacked as Boro were facing relegation. He copied the style from Mourinho making them defensively strong.

Him and Unsworth in combination might be worth a try till March. If we are still in relegation battle, then bring in Big Sam for the rescue operation.

Xavier Spencer
37 Posted 20/10/2017 at 11:35:36
Let's just get it over with, he has to go, there's nothing to suggest he has the guile or will to turn this round. Too many mistakes. Barkley, Niasse, not replacing Rom, signing players with no pace, stunting the progress of young players. The list is endless...

I'd go and get Marco Silva right now or if we can't get him until the end of the season put Unsworth in charge. No to big names. They're only interested in the big payday, just like Koeman. I want someone young and hungry and who actually gives a fuck.

Nitesh Kanchan
38 Posted 20/10/2017 at 11:43:38
The Silva train has passed us. He joined Watford this season, why would he leave after just 3 months into the job, when everything is going right for him and Watford. Silva is only possible next season. Only a manager out of a job or Unsworth can take over.
Dave Whitwell
39 Posted 20/10/2017 at 12:34:01
Koeman is not right for this club and should go sooner rather than later, his demeanor on the touchlines said it all for me. I believe he is simply waiting to be put out of his misery and is probably surprised that it hasn't happened yet.

Putting that and the result aside, I saw some brief positives last night. We had a spell midway through the 2nd half where we had Davies sitting deeper with Mirallas, Sigurdsson, Vlasic & Lookman ahead of him. During that period there was genuine pace and creativity that I thought Lyon were struggling to deal with.

I can't understand why Mirallas was taken off but, even so, this is the kind of line-up we are capable of putting out and simply must at Goodison. We must go at teams like we are gracing the turf, they are in our yard, and we are going to take them apart. If we do, I'm sure the dividends will come.

We should then be able to re-introduce the like of Sandro & Klaassen into a more confident side. I believe these guys have something to offer us long-term but are not at the races right now.

We have the players now lets get a manager that can deploy and motivate them properly.

Johnny Rainford
40 Posted 20/10/2017 at 12:34:18
"The team news once again left us baffled..."

Nailed it Paul. Obviously the players caught onto this some time ago thus zero confidence in him as a manager. If the whispers are to be believed, he lost the senior players a while ago.

Sam Railton
41 Posted 20/10/2017 at 13:19:42
I was there yesterday, after a horrible 2-hour drive down the M62 in the pouring rain. My anticipation levels were pretty poor before I set off and the weather did nothing to make me think the night was going to get any better.

I've rarely watched / gone to a game knowing we're going to get beat before a ball has been kicked. Even against the Premier League big boys, I always think we might be able to nick a point. The giving away of the penalty in the first 5 minutes was pretty much the nail in the coffin.

I don't get to go to games very often and usually sit behind a goal, but yesterday I was in the family enclosure, about 6 feet from Mr Koeman. I probably spent more time watching him than I did the game as it's not something you really see on telly or pick up on when you're sat some distance away.

Koeman was effectively talking people through the game. In the 1st half he spent most of his time telling Holgate when he could push on and when to stay back and defend, likewise with Vlasic. I don't know if this is normal, micromanaging or a lack of trust in the players, but he was giving out an unbelievable amount of instructions. Then there was an incident where Lyon had a throw just on the half-way line. All 3 of our central midfielders were pointing and shouting at each other trying to get the other one to go and pick up the nearest man to the ball. These are basic things. If they don't know whose job that is, then they are either not being given sufficient pre-match briefings or are getting so many instructions, that they don't know whether they are coming or going.

For the last 15 minutes of the second half, Koeman kept shouting at Williams and Keane, to effectively hoof it up front at the first available opportunity. What is the point in spending all that money on midfielders, if you're just going to bypass them and go long? I appreciate there was a need for a goal, but Lookman isn't going to win any of those headers and Calvert-Lewin was up against a bigger stronger centre half.

Keane, looks frightened to death. Whenever he has the ball, he immediately beckons someone to come towards him and gestures as though there isn't a pass on. Sure, sometimes there might not be, but it looks like it's become so ingrained that it happens naturally and his body language just says “Panic!”

The team as a whole don't have any real structure, plan or playing style and that is something that has to be levelled at the coaching side of things.

I was so fed up, I even rang TalkSport on the way home and spent another 2 hours not being able to get home on the M62. That was probably more fun than the previous 90 minutes.

Anthony Hawkins
42 Posted 20/10/2017 at 13:36:27
Lots has been said and lots I completely agree with and won't say again. There are a couple of points I'd like to raise though...

Giving Lookman a 5 is pretty harsh given others have a 6 or 7. Lookman coming on changed the game for us. The reason his end result wasn't forthcoming was because he took on the opposition and they put players onto him. That gave other team members more space. We've missed pace and the ability to pull the opposition out of position, this season.

Williams's outburst may have spilled over but that is exactly what we've missed in the team all season. That passion, that show of desire and that aggression. So far it's all been all nicey nicey and the players appeared dumbed down. Let that aggression and frustration out – get them fired up before the game!! Everyone has been far too passive.

I don't think Koeman is the right fit, not right now but if he can turn things around and get that level of passion out of the players on a regular basis... Go for it! He might just make it if he does.

Andy Meighan
43 Posted 20/10/2017 at 13:40:47
Aitor Karanka... For fuck's sake, we're struggling to score under this knobhead – imagine what it would be like under that miserable bastard.

Where do some people get their ideas from? We've had enough dour fuckers in our technical area. Get someone in who at least look like he gives a flying one.

Nitesh Kanchan
44 Posted 20/10/2017 at 13:42:42
Johnny, how does manager lose players? If players don't want to play for him, then he won't play them, but we are seeing same faces week after week. The one's who didn't get along with him were dropped, namely Niasse, Mirallas and to some extent Barkley. Not so long ago, he praised senior players like Rooney, Jagielka and Baines to no end.

Yesterday, someone posted about not having brought replacements once Jagielka and Baines passed 30. I believe primetime for the players is from 25 to 32. After that, they start losing pace and form and need adequate rest with rotations. So whose mistake was that?

It should be manager and scout responsibility to co-ordinate and identify available players with similar traits as Jagielka and Baines had and demand it to the board, who then look after negotiating deal with agents and other club board members and that is Kenwright. For me, it is fault of both Martinez, Walsh and Koeman. Now it has not just become embarrassing for fans but also for Jagielka and Baines, whose legendary status is getting tarnished by their struggles this season.

Koeman is constantly playing players out of position and looks bereft of ideas for tactics. Arsenal are there for the taking this weekend, having lost to Watford and beating 10-man _____ only due to an unstoppable goal. If we have a proper go at their defence right from the start, we can easily win it. But knowing Koeman, he will play both Gana and Schneiderlin and bench Davies and Mirallas.

James Ebden
45 Posted 20/10/2017 at 13:57:07
Sorry Anthony, but Lookman was rubbish. There is no point being quick and sucking in defenders, creating space for others, if you can't pick a pass to them!!

He is a carbon copy of Wright-Phillips, all pace and no end product. He is also very lightweight and shoved off the ball easy.

I hope he develops as we badly need some pace. But until he learns to cross the ball, or hold onto it better, he should be in the U23s.

Steve Solomon
46 Posted 20/10/2017 at 13:57:46
Strangely, the longer we hold on to Koeman, the lower his rating will be and the harder it will be for him to find a decent job, in my opinion.
Liam Reilly
47 Posted 20/10/2017 at 14:02:14
Nitesh, I emailed it to the editors – let's see if they put it up.

It either shows a lack of maturity from the player or just plain apathy. I hope its the former, because – barring Pickford – no other player came out of that game with any credit and Holgate was one of the worst performers.

He should be loaned out to a Championship club; certainly shouldn't be anywhere near the first team. His defending is suspect and his passing atrocious.

Nitesh Kanchan
48 Posted 20/10/2017 at 14:49:27
Thanks Liam, looking forward to it. That kind of character is unacceptable after the defeat and that should apply to all players be it senior or youth. He should be punished and hopefully he learns from it that you don't enjoy the moment your club has been almost dumped out of the Europa League and is in terrible state.

Anyways, Koeman is not doing him any favours by constantly changing his position rather than playing him at single position. Kenny is miles better than him at right back.

Denny Kerr
49 Posted 20/10/2017 at 14:54:41
I agree with Andrew (#20),

Paying off a manager who is bringing the club to it's knees, should not even be an issue. We have wasted millions on ineffective players, over the years (as has every club) and it's time now to bite the bullet, and get rid of this soulless, inept man. A few million spent saving our club from the depths of despair,will seem like a bargain,in the years ahead.

I've watched Everton for 63 years, and I can honestly say, I cannot figure this team out. Style, who should play where, who is actually good enough to be in the team, too old, too young, off form, out of favour, injured, couldn't care less, it's an absolute mess.

Top to bottom, we are in trouble!

Paul Holmes
50 Posted 20/10/2017 at 15:11:58
Once you said Keane had a good game, I stopped reading and posted this. Ffs, even The Echo gave him 4/10!

We have signed Rodney's brother from Only Fools and Horses – this lad is a Championship player (another £25/30 million wasted ).

Once Funes Mori is fit, he will walk back into this team to partner Jagielka or Williams under Moyes, who will be our manager before the Leicester game.

[If you can say Keane is a good player, I can post this.] .

James Carroll
51 Posted 20/10/2017 at 15:52:29
Back to basics – even short-term – has to be better than this.

What would we have to lose, compared to right now, giving Unsworth a run until Xmas? Get Ross back on board, too.

We can't afford relegation – or another Koeman transfer window.

Nitesh Kanchan
52 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:15:15
Andy, he was understudy to Mourinho, so why can't he be assistant to Rhino? He can help in situations where we have to sit back on leads.

Mourinho certainly knows how to keep defensive shapes and he learnt from him, might come in handy. Imagine a Milan or Arsenal game away after taking the lead in the knockout round or big games of the Europa League.

Just a presumption, mate, not certainty though. I take my word back if you don't like it; just my small opinion, not calling for a bashing or slating for it.

Paul Kossoff
53 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:37:37
Tony (#24), I couldn't agree with you more. I've said a few times that Kenwright has ulterior motives and I know it sounds bloody stupid, but I believe that Kenwright doesn't want us as one of the big boys.

He wants to keep control, be it behind the cover (and that's what he is – a cover) of Moshiri and his billions.

I feel that, as long as Kenwright and his gang are in control, we will continue to fail.

David Israel
54 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:43:17
Denny Kerr (#49), there's a few of us, old hands, around here. My first season watching football at Goodison was the title-winning one of 1962-63, but by then you were almost a veteran!

And, even though fresh memories are stronger and starker, there's been very few occasions when things were so dismal. I would suggest Mike Walker's short reign or Walter Smith's long good-bye. The '70s, for instance, were pretty barren, trophy-wise, after the title in 1970, but we had some decent teams, and gave it a go, once in a while. Gordon Lee went close, for one. And we had Bob Latchford, Dave Thomas, Bruce Rioch, Duncan McKenzie – oh, and Andy King, of course!

Ronald Koeman has been given enough time – and money, I dare say. To him, I'll quote Oliver Cromwell and Leo Amery: "You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

Ian Linn
55 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:46:08
I'm never one to call for a manager's head unless things have got tenreally bad and I think in this case they have – the time has come.

We have had four or five opportunities to 'turn the corner' but we keep on managing to avoid it.

I can't see anything changing with Koeman, I feel like his body language from Day One said he didn't want to be at Everton and if it was saying it then, it's screaming it now.

Let him go and have done with it; hand the first team to Unsworth and give him a go.

If they do let Koeman go, I don't think he will give a shit.


John Boon
56 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:53:45
I completely disagree with any negative comment about Lookman. He did well when he came on.

Koeman deserves all the criticism that he gets. The only way he will be applauded is when he leaves. Don't put too much on our younger players. I feel that they are actually our best hope even if they do make mistakes. Davies is always visible.

I really do think that we should give Unsworth backed up by Ferguson a chance. They are Evertonians and more importantly motivators, Why bring in some highfalutin {I don't care if it's not a word}, over-paid foreigner who will only want to come for money. All of the top managers from abroad really only want cash to make themselves rich and to boost their already huge egos.

I still think we do have the players to make a good team. They just need to be played in the right position as well as having a manager who can make them believe in themselves.

Phil Walling
57 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:03:42
Anthony Hawkins @ 42 – making a hero out of the useless Williams appals me. If all you needed was passion, then Wimbledon would have become champions for all time. Surem they ran around, barged people, cussed refs and won a few games. But, like last night's captain of our club, they were ugly and usually fecking crap.

The School of Science concept is now mocked by our younger fans as just a myth of history but you should have been here to see it. Now it's gone for ever – just like a lot of psuedo-Evertonians before long!

Bill Gall
58 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:19:43
Sadly things are starting to unravel at Everton with practically no sign of a change in the future. Regarding the what if comments, the signs I have noted the last few seasons is that teams that are struggling against relegation, and lets face it we are one of the poorest in the division, never get the breaks for a goal or are denied a clear cut penalty to kick start a recovery.

I am not one for changing managers but to me Koeman is making that decision easier every game. Yes, it is not easy to bed in a lot of new players but as manager you should be using a formation and style of play that suits them, not forcing them to play in a style that they are not comfortable with,and playing them out of position.

A number of players are being slagged off as no use, yet these players are full internationals who most supporters were happy we signed them. They don't become poor players overnight so there must be other factors that make them into poor players, and it is the manager's responsibility to develop a style that brings the best out of them, even if it is not the style of play he wants.

Denver Daniels
59 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:42:48
I'm still trying to fathom Sandro. A player who last season scored 16 in 31 games in La Liga and looks so piss poor. Has he even had a good game for us yet?

Klaassen seems to have the innate ability to surprise you that he's actually on the pitch. Our esteemed TW Dutch football expert, Erik Dols, warned us about this guy. And it seems he was spot on. We should have gone for Ziyech instead.

Keane looks like money down the drain. Constantly out of position or ball watching and painfully slow. This can be said of Schneiderlin as well.

Special mention for Williams who tried his best all night to get himself sent off and couldn't even get that right.

The youngsters Vlasic, Davies and Lookman at least showed some attacking intent.

And two great set-pieces from Sigurdsson showing what £45m should get you.

Will Mabon
60 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:43:39
"To me it appears the whole set up at Everton is rigged for some ulterior motives with Kenwright pulling the strings and Moshiri acting as the mouthpiece. None of what is happening makes any sense to me. None of this bullshit sits well. Please tell me there are others out there who can see it ?"

You're not the only one wondering at what's going down, Tony.

Conspiratorial to say there's a deliberate compromising of the club and team perhaps, but if you were writing a drama about the deliberate compromising of a club and team, there would be many parallels.

James Marshall
61 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:56:44

It's extremely common for certain managers to micro-manage their teams, so nothing amiss there to be honest. Moyes did it, so did Martinez. Tony Pulis springs to mind, as well as Conte, Guardiola, Mourinho does it at times as well.

I wouldn't read too much into that style of management or coaching as a negative thing – like I say, it's pretty common.

Martin Mason
62 Posted 20/10/2017 at 19:03:09
Tony @24,

For me, what you say is delusional fantasy.

Tony Abrahams
63 Posted 20/10/2017 at 20:05:32
I don't think you could give a post any more praise after what Martin has just written, Tony!
Andy Crooks
64 Posted 20/10/2017 at 22:13:32
Paul, great report as usual. When you say it is time for Koeman to go, he will be gone. No, I know it's not your decision! But it seems to me you represent the view, pretty much of the match going fan.

Tony Marsh (#24). You actually believe that Ronald Koeman, a very wealthy man who has ambition to manage Barcelona, is deliberately losing at Everton to engineer a career damaging pay off ? You actually believe that?

Sometimes, Tony, when you hammer enough shite at the club, you will be able to gloat that you were right all along. Koeman is shite, should be fired and gone. So should posts like #24.

Rob Dolby
65 Posted 20/10/2017 at 23:09:12
It is only a matter of time before Koeman gets the chop. Whoever gets the job will inherit a totally unbalanced squad without a right-back, left-footed midfielder, a mixed bag of forwards, and a shedload of Number 10s.

If we had played a half-decent team last night, we would have got smashed. I honestly wouldn't back us to beat anyone at present. We need a change at the helm to inject a bit of passion back into the club.

Ian Riley
66 Posted 20/10/2017 at 23:17:33
Most bizarre decision last night was to rest Rooney. You need a win, haven't won for weeks and your job is on the line. Rooney doesn't play for England anymore but needs a rest.

I for one want Koeman to succeed but unless something changes quickly a relegation battle is on. Those teams promoted are holding their own at present with very good managers. Yes, Koeman is to blame and if he goes the director of football goes with him. A striker was a must and he should have over ruled Koeman to get a striker before further signings after Lukaku was sold.

If we don't win on Sunday, something must change but I'm not getting carried away. It's time the players put in a shift and battle for the jersey and their self-pride.

Peter Fearon
67 Posted 21/10/2017 at 04:43:59
Let's suppose Koeman really is the incompetent, cynical, time-serving shit that most of the posts on TW suggest he is and deserves to be sacked. Doesn't the blame therefore lie on the people who hired him?

Why would Moshiri, at this stage, having spent so much money, say "My bad, all a big mistake, let's start over?" Of course he is not going to do that. He is going to persevere with Koeman and hope he is going to work it out. It may not be confidence. It may be ego. It is like buying a painting. The more you paid for it the more you want to believe it's real.

Moshiri isn't going to sack Koeman, if he sacks him at all, before the end of the season. I am hoping that by then Koeman has proved all of the Koeman Out brigade wrong. By the way, Wenger claims it takes at least four months for two new players to get used to each other's play. We have how many?

Will Mabon
68 Posted 21/10/2017 at 05:37:19
I think you might have more faith in Koeman than he himself, Peter. He's blaming the players now, which suggests he thinks it's not in his remit.

Also, Koeman chose to replace existing players with many new signings. I guess he wouldn't agree with Wenger, since that would make Koeman's own project of a team for the Champion's League in three seasons, impossible.

Pete Clarke
69 Posted 21/10/2017 at 06:24:50
The team does not have a win in it. Devoid of shape, tactics awareness and confidence, it needs a boost and without a win that's not going to happen. So, the only way it is going to happen is with a change of manager and I feel that's now down to the supporters to show it at the match.

The Koeman brothers are obviously talking double Dutch (pardon the pun) and the players are lost. There are decent players in that team that need a good leader to make them shine so I believe we need to make it loud and clear to Kenwright and Moshiri that he's gotta go immediately.

Use whatever tactics you want but get the message in their faces and on TV. How many games of his tenure have been great to watch? I mean how many of us who have jobs would still be in them with a return as bad as Koeman's?

He was brought here to get us top 6 and he brings in Martina, Stekelenburg and Williams. The alarm bells were ringing for me long ago and now they are are deafening with his puzzling formations and lack of responsibility.

Loud and Clear... Koeman Out!

Derek Thomas
70 Posted 21/10/2017 at 06:26:13
Let's say Koeman got sacked Thursday Night and the New guy is ready to walking Friday Morning. One and a bit days to learn the names.

Let's say Koeman gets sacked Sunday teatime and the new guy is ready to walk in Monday bright and early. One and a bit days to learn the names then off to London.

We look at the fixtures: Leicester, Lyon, Watford. Which one do we sacrifice.

Yeah well there's a 2-week break in November... do it then. Yeah but remember all the New Guys players will be away, they come back Thursday(?)...A day and a bit to learn the names and it's Palace on Saturday.

For how long? well really, just as long as you like to keep putting it off for – that's how long... there IS no good time. It isn't bad, badder, baddest. It's good, bad, worst.

Last week was a better time than this week, this week will be a better time than next week... next week etc.


Will Mabon
71 Posted 21/10/2017 at 06:38:06
Derek, you're right. Little give-it-more-time blocks keep being suggested recently. "How we do in the next few winnable games", then, "If we don't beat Burnley, if we don't beat Brighton, see how we do in the European game". Now it's, "If we lose to Arsenal".


William Cartwright
72 Posted 21/10/2017 at 07:24:06
We will need to wait another 10 days and the end of the month should do it.

Consider that Moshiri is no mug. That's a fact. Do you think after pursuing Koeman, paying Southampton a sizeable transfer fee, supporting his, Walsh's and BK's transfer targets and finding for all his troubles he is faced with this balls-up he is simply going to do nothing?
No chance.

Behind the scenes activities will include damage limitation for the exodus, public humiliation limitation, and don't think that Koeman will simply walk away with the rest of his contract as a lump sum. Via his lawyer he will be well compensated I am sure, but I would expect there will be a reasonable performance / professional standard clause written in to protect Moshiri's interests.

Koeman has failed and failed miserably. He sees his career going down the toilet, similar to how Moyes, went. As a supremely arrogant twat, he is also probably enduring a bit of an identity crisis with the reality of what he has done comes crashing in on him.

Moshiri is nobody's fool. Koeman will learn this if he hasn't done so already. The probable error of Moshiri was to invest too much well intentioned power into Koeman in the belief that the tough nut could change the museum club management approach how it should be done. Unfortunately Koeman was not up to it. He has until the end of October. Can he get results against Arsenal and Chelsea? Very doubtful. When he goes, will the old and new tag team of Unsy and Royle come in? Possibly, on a temporary basis, or possibly a new man which could surprise us.

We will know soon enough!

Christopher Timmins
73 Posted 21/10/2017 at 07:58:40
Paul, I am in your camp, the minority one, I want the manager to be given a bit more time to try and turn it around. If things are not showing signs of a turn by Christmas, well make the call then. He did turn things around from Christmas 2015 so it's not totally out of the question that he can do so again.
Peter Howard
74 Posted 21/10/2017 at 09:42:42
If it's a tag team we need, then I'd go for Bert Royal and Vic Falkner.
Pete Clarke
75 Posted 21/10/2017 at 11:15:21
There are big problems with letting him stay longer and the answer is in what we have all witnessed in his reign so far.

Let's get something clear: One game is all I remember his team looking organised and getting a result they deserved. The rest has been a mishmash of unorganised rubbish. We need points now. Most top clubs and even smaller clubs would of had him out of the door long ago but not "If you know your History" fuckin Everton.

We are plagued with having a fantasist as an owner and, worst of all, we have put up with some proper lies and bullshit.

Like I said in an earlier post. In front of the owners and TV we need to show that we won't put up with it any longer.

Koeman Out!!

Jack Convery
76 Posted 21/10/2017 at 12:12:06
Those of you who think it wasn't as bad under Bobby, have you forgotten Anfield? The Reds actually felt sorry for me in work the next day. Stones feeling unwell. Funes Mori's horror tackle and kissing the badge.

Kenwright is behind this mess. How does a club sell its best striker and know 12 months in advance he's going and still doesn't get a replacement in? No cover for left-back. No left-footed centre-half. An absolute disgrace.

Everton will do nothing whilst Kenwright has any influence at Goodison. He definitely doesn't get on with Koeman. Koeman won't bleed blue blood like Kenwright but he's played at the top level.

He may not be the best manager in the world either. However, to go into an Premier League season without a striker and an aging defence is asking for trouble v and boy are we in trouble.

Steve Ferns
77 Posted 21/10/2017 at 12:16:52
Did Koeman get 72 points, Jack? Who is the last man to even get us 66 points or more?

Did Koeman get us to two semi-finals in one season? Who was the last man to do so and when?

Did Koeman get us to the quarter-final of a European Competition? Who is the only man to have taken us further, and how many other men have equalled it?

Now tell us it was worse under Bobby.

Rob Dolby
78 Posted 21/10/2017 at 12:37:30
Let's hope that there are 3 worse teams in the league this season. Palace beat Chelsea last week – could we do that?

I would love nothing more than for Koeman to turn this around but he isn't giving anyone any indication that it is going to happen. His team selections are getting more bizarre by the week. The confidence in the players looks shot. Where are the leaders on the pitch?

Williams is a leader, limited in ability but he is a leader. Davies is a leader, albeit a very young one. Rooney is a leader though he is playing him out of position and that's it.

Flare players are being left out altogether in favour of Number 10s. A Number 10 is a player who plays in the hole behind the striker and creates space for others whilst being able to slide a pass through to the strikers and Koeman is playing at least 3 of them every week.

We all want to close the gap on the top teams and maybe I am missing what Koeman is trying to do. I watched Real Madrid in the week who played 4 centre midfielders in their line-up without any width but they have movement and some of the best in the world.

Koeman needs to look at our strengths and try to play to them. Paying £45m to play a player out of position yet he is destroying Klaassen by putting him in whilst he is a mile off the pace.

Buying so many new players plus injuries has forced his hand a bit but I see no formation or tactics that will win us a match. He isn't going to last much longer... I just hope they don't leave it too late as this team haven't got the mentality for a dog fight.

Andy Crooks
80 Posted 21/10/2017 at 13:49:09
Steve, the last days of the Martinez era were grim and I don't think they can be defended. We are, I suspect, in the last days of the Koeman era. I feel sorry for him. We often think that money compensates. To an extent it does, but what price does a reputation cost?

There is something stinking at our club. It will come out and I hope that the players and board will be exposed as much as the coach.

Steve Ferns
81 Posted 21/10/2017 at 13:53:41
They were grim Andy, but these days are far worse. At least Martinez had a plan. At least we lost games we could have or should have won.

How many games have we lost this season and said that it was an unfair result? We're getting tonked week-in & week-out, and we deserve it. This is the worst we have been since the darkest days of Smith and his 6 centre-halves on the pitch. Only we spent a fortune.

Grant Rorrison
82 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:11:08
It's been grim from the start under Koeman. If not for a decent little run at home last season at the turn of the year there wouldn't have been a single bright spot the entire time he's been here.

Shocking away form throughout, terrible style of play and abysmal cup results from a man whose been unfairly compared to Moyes while he's been here. At least with Moyes his extremely cagey and limited style of play was fairly competently executed in the main and produced reasonable results for the most part.

To think the last fella got hounded out for getting to 2 semi finals in one season and being in the top 8 until the last couple of months of the season when the wheels fell off entirely. Why is Koeman still here?

Michael Kenrick
83 Posted 21/10/2017 at 16:16:17

If Koeman isn't sacked after we lose to Arsenal on Sunday or he doesn't resign in shame then everything above must be true?

Surely even you can see there might just be a logical fallacy in there somewhere, Tony? I mean, you've accepted that most of the shite you come up with is conjecture rather than fact, as you so glibly state it.

You do set up an interesting corollary, however: if Koeman is sacked or does resign in shame, then by your questionable logic, everything you spout above is garbage. Hmmm

Jack Convery
84 Posted 21/10/2017 at 20:35:30
Martinez's first season was attack but with Moyes's defence behind. Unfortunately the defence fell apart due to the strain they were pit under and the fact he bought Funes Mori and Alcaraz, both accidents waiting to happen.

I was not defending Koeman's record but pointing out he is playing without a centre forward due to negligence. Kenwright got Lukaku for Bobbyand spent big to do it: 㿈m. He then sold Lukaku (as EFC always do – cf Lineker), and did not spend big to replace him. Whatever job you do, you need the proper tools.

Brian Porter
85 Posted 22/10/2017 at 06:47:12
Peter #74, great memories of the 60s /70s. Herbert's and Vic Faulkner were brothers from Bolton. Bert used the name Royal and they were one of pro wrestling's most successful tag teams of the era. As a tag team they were undefeated, unusual for their time. Bert was recognisable by his slicked back dark hair, and Vic was the younger one with boyish blonde hair.

Vic was European Welterweight Champion from 1966-73 and British welterweight champion from 1973-77.

Vic went on to become sales manager for Thwaite Brewery. Sadly there is no information on Bert currently available.

They were winners, unlike Koeman who is a perennial and persistent loser, having been sacked from or walked away from three of his last four managerial appointments. I don't include Southampton in that total by the way.

Franny Porter
86 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:07:00
Somthing I have come to realise this last couple of weeks, we seem to have the worst set of individual defenders I can remember in a long time.

Martina - Absolutely fucking shite.
Holgate - Never a right back, constantly loses his man when hes CB
Keane - Looked good at first, seems to have zero confidence now and is all over the place.
Jagielka - Was past it last year, least effective "captain" in living memory.
Williams - Shit from day one, now looks morbidly obese and is just a red card on legs.
Baines - Now I love Baines, but watching him wandering around seemingly not arsed yesterday, coupled with his recent performances, time to move on I'm afraid.
Funes-Mori - May not come back from this injury the player he was, and he wasnt much anyway!
Kenny - Admirable attitude but in all honesty doesn't look ready for the Premeir League.

Peter Howard
87 Posted 24/10/2017 at 05:58:00
Those were the days,Brian.

Happy Thursday,Friday-see you Saturday!

Derek Thomas
88 Posted 30/10/2017 at 09:25:12
Copy and paste for Leicester?? Systemic problems a new manager can't quickly or even possibly fix – whoever he is – however long he's given.

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