Niasse strike overshadowed by McCarthy injury

By Michael Kenrick 20/01/2018 228comments  |  Jump to last
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Theo Walcott makes his debut following a £20m move from Arsenal
Everton 1 - 1 West Bromwich Albion

Goodison Park welcomed new signings Cenk Tosun and Theo Walcott against visitors West Brom today, with Williams as captain, Rooney, Jagielka and Bolasie dropped to the bench.

Nikola Vlasic also made a rare start, with Martina continuing at left back, and no sign of Luke Garbutt in the matchday squad but Michael Keane iwas fit enough for the subs' bench. Ademolah Lookman, Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Tom Davies are not involved. Gareth Barry returned for the first time with the visitors.

With Sam Allardyce celebrating his 1,000th senior game, Everton kicked off playing toward the Gwladys Street end, it was the visitors who showed more intent early on, Rondon trying to shoot wide of Pickford. Everton looked very disjointed and could not string anything together in the way of joined-up football, with aerial balls knocked haphazardly in the right general direction.

Krychowiak got plenty of space and lashed his chance wide of target. Rodriguez, did not make the same error, a hoof onto his chest beating Pickford with ease, Holgate miles away from him. An absolutely shocking start for the Blues.

The Everton response was to try and do more in terms of building with the ball played to feet but the Baggies had just what they wanted in the early goal and were not minded to allow Everton to walk the ball through their defence.

Walcott's early touches were hardly inspiring, with too many backward passes and no attempt to beat his man or create anything. Sigurdsson fired at the target but a defender blocked his shot, straight at the body, never a penalty despite the claims.

Walcott was pushed over and awarded a free-kick wide right that Sigurdsson delivered in well enough but Schneiderlin could only glance it on its way across the West Brom area and there was nothing forthcoming in the follow-up, while Rondon threatened in lots of space at the other end and a shot just wide had Pickford scrambling to cover.

A laborious build-up ended with McCarthy's cross in Foster's arms. Sigurdsson then tried to dribble through three defenders. Tusun and Walcott unexpectedly played as strangers, unfamiliar with their respective runs as the Blues struggled to make anything notable until Walcott finally showed his skill, trapping a great long crossfield ball from Schneiderlin and delivering a good cross that had no takers in the West Brom area.

West Brom were too easily able to switch sustained pressure from an Everton free-kick into a marauding and speedy attack, with the Blues still to register a shot at goal with half-an-hour gone and the frustration overflowing from the long-suffering Goodison fans.

Phillips saw a shot deflected behind the Everton goal, winning the first corner that was well overhit. Finally, it was Jonjoe Kenny who pulled off he amazing feat of a shot on target, Foster tracking it all the way. But the football was dreadful, formless, scrappy, disjointed, simply horrible... Tosun not getting even a faint sniff.

In a brighter bit of play, Walcott beat three defenders but was overlapped by Tosun, who put in a decent cross but Sigurdsson was the wrong side of his marker. At the other end, West Brom won another corner, this one off Kenny, and Rondon put in a clean header driven just over the bar.

Walcott caught Krychowiak on his instep and saw the first yellow card, a fitting end to the half as the boos rung around the ground following yet another utterly dismal display of rotten zombie football from Sam Allardyce and his increasingly dispirited charges. Changes in store, no doubt, after the break.

Bolasie replaced Vlasic as proceedings resumed, and he tried to advance with the ball down the right, only to be stalled, and it was Williams who drove the ball forward to no-one and out for a goal-kick. Everton tried to play football down the right flank but close-order interchanges did not fool the disciplined Baggies defence.

The obligatory session of garbage head-tennis benefited no-one as Rooney resumed his strenuous warm-up. Everton eventually got the ball into the West Brom area but Foster was fouled as he went for the high ball.

Walcott finally got a chance to run with the ball but crossed straight to Foster.Sigurdsson tried to release Tosun but his pass lacked the legs and another attack fizzled out.

Rondon got lose and looked to be setting up to score but McCarthy flung himself in to deny him, McCarthy then crumbling to the ground with what must be a broken leg, Rondon, sobbing on the touchline. After many minutes of treatment, McCarthy was stretchered off, Rooney his replacement.

That horrible incident put a damper on the mood, but Everton looked much the same in terms of performance as they struggled to make anything work. Bolasie looked to beat Barry but couldn't, and Niasse replaced Tosun, who had done very very little,the decision being be booed by some of the crowd.

Kenny got a decent cross in that Rooney recirculated, Walcott placing a brilliant header and Niasse lashing it into the roof of the net with his first touch, less than a minute after coming on!!!

At the other end, Krychowiak found space for a shot that Pickford pushed out dangerously to Phillips who could only blaze over. Baolasie looked to create something, then Walcott was bowled over. Sigurdsson's free-kick fell to Walcott whose first-time volley was saved by Foster.

After three subs for The Baggies, Bolasie was a little greedy in trying a lame shot at Foster. But the visitors rallied, Rondon tying to pick his spot after Kenny was dispossessed. Rondon's header then bounced a few feet wide. It was all coming from West Brom as they looked for a winner.

Bolasie looked to curl one in as 7 minutes of added time were announced. A West Brom corner was cleared, but Everton's transition was too slow. A terrible free-kick was wasted by Kenny. Rooney then gave the ball away to Rondon who lashed a shot beyond Pickford, rattling the Gwladys Street bar.

Everton seemed determined to gift the game to their visitors, but Stuart Atwell finally brought another miserable exhibition of footballing incompetence — Niasse's moment of brilliance notwithstanding — to a painful end, with all thoughts turning to James McCarthy and his horrible plight.

Scorers: Niasse (70'); Rodriguez (6').

Everton: Pickford, Kenny, Williams, Holgate, Martina, Schneiderlin [Y:56'], McCarthy (60' Rooney), Walcott [Y:44'], Sigurdsson, Vlasic (46' Bolasie), Tosun (69' Niasse).
Subs not Used: Robles, Keane, Jagielka, Gueye.

West Bromwich Albion: Foster, Dawson [Y:87'], Hegazi, Evans (80' McAuley), Gibbs, Phillips, Rodriguez (79' McClean), Barry, Brunt (79' Livermore), Krychowiak, Rondon.
Subs not Used: Nyom, Robson-Kanu, Myhill, Field.

Referee: Stuart Atwell

Attendance: 39,061


Reader Comments (228)

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Dave Williams
1 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:16:56
Perfect!

Balanced apart from left-back which we can't do too much about today. Sigurdsson in his best position and two decent wide men with Tosun up top.

Well done, Sam – not bad at all. Now... shoot on sight and show us what you can do.

Steve Cotton
2 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:26:56
Lookman?????
Barry Pearce
3 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:30:02
Hope Schneiderlin as a decent game, because he doesn't deserve a place in the side on merit, that's for sure.
Christy Ring
4 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:34:12
As Dave said, it's a balanced team apart from the left-back. I'm delighted to see Siggy in his best position, and Rooney on the bench, they can't play together. I hope Vlasic can do a job on the left.
Tom Dodds
5 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:34:41
Seconded. (Lookman)
Tony Hogan
6 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:35:03
Another baffling team selection.

Is Big Sam any better than the previous clown?

Frank Crewe
7 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:39:20
Nothing baffling about it. Everyone in their proper positions (apart from a left-back) and a decent balance of attack and defence. Good pace up front.
George Cumiskey
8 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:39:55
Balanced team... with Schneiderlin and Martina playing?
Ashley Roberts
9 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:40:24
I cannot believe we are playing 2 defensive midfielders against this mob!! Not sure how Schneiderlin gets to start either. 2 centre backs on the bench and no Lookman or Davies. A set-up not to lose.
Christy Ring
10 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:40:26
I'm disappointed Davies didn't make the bench, as he's the only attacking midfielder we have.
Dan Davies
11 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:50:44
3 - 0 Everton. Tosun, Walcott and Vlasic.
Gerard McGregor
12 Posted 20/01/2018 at 14:57:02
I like the starting 11 but pity about the bench. Big Sam is not big enough to drop Rooney and put Lookman on the bench instead. Is Calvert-Lewin injured?

I'd like to see him in instead of Niasse, who is soon to leave, by all accounts, and risks the possibility of picking up an injury and so scuppering any potential deal. And I hope they are only resting Tom Davies...

Paul McCoy
13 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:10:09
ToffeeWeb: "If there's one thing Allardyce can do, it's organise a defence."

The waste of space can't even do that apparently.

Ashley Roberts
14 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:11:21
Dan Davis – that was wishful thinking!!!!!
Gavin Johnson
15 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:37:08
0-1 down to West Brom at home. No shots on target after 35 mins... Is this a joke?!?
Ash Moore
16 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:40:01
This is really difficult to watch. Very low quality stuff from both sides.
Ernie Baywood
17 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:49:48
No idea whether our attacking players can do anything. They don't get the ball until West Brom have numbers safely back in position.

Every player wants 5 touches to make sure they're not the one who gives the ball away. No momentum, no courage.

Swap Schneiderlin for Rooney. He's just a waste of space.

Royson Reja Sagah
18 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:51:31
Different manager, Same old story. Too defensive at home. Severely lacking in shots at goal. It's like we're playing without any striker up front.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

19 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:54:51
Tepid. Meek. Statuesque. Ruderless.

There is not one single leader in a blue shirt to galvanize the side and get them playing.

No movement off the ball. No imagination on the ball. Walcott is used to having 2-3 supporting players within 5 metres of him to ping balls off.

Whoever the Everton player is, there is no-one within 10-15 metres in support. Blue shirts are avoiding the ball, not seeking it out.

Two 60-40 challenges in our favour in the opening 2 minutes meekly lost – one by Williams, the other by Schneiderlin – set the tone and we have simply not been in the game.

A bonfire needs to be lit under them, because this is pitiful.

David Connor
20 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:56:09
These players can't put two passes together. Mass clear-out needed in the summer for certain, starting with the manager and chief scout Walsh. Awfull players. Utter dross yet again.
Geoff Evans
21 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:57:07
Makes ya proud, aye boys! Scintillating.

David McMullen
22 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:57:26
Truly awful. Defence non-existent at times. Like a previous comment – same problems, different manager.
Logan Shave
23 Posted 20/01/2018 at 15:57:59
First shot on target in over 400 minutes of football! That says it all about Big Sam and his tactics.

There's absolutely no movement in the midfield at all. This is just awful to watch. The fact it makes me yearn for the days of Martinez is not a good sign!

Christian Watson
24 Posted 20/01/2018 at 16:00:29
These have got to get a roasting at half time. Jesus... West Brom at home. Staggeringly bad from back to front.

Walcott must be worried where he's come to. He & Rooney have come to the club talking about getting Everton to another level. Didn't think they were referring to the Championship.

C'mon blues. 45 hard minutes, let's win it PLEASE!!

Geoff Evans
25 Posted 20/01/2018 at 16:01:26
Logan: Mike Walker would be better than this.
Andy Meighan
26 Posted 20/01/2018 at 16:01:43
Ronaldo, Messi and Suarez playing up top for us wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. That midfield is a fucking disgrace.

Manager after manager persisting with 2 shit defensive midfielders every game. And against opposition as poor as this. I'll be massively shocked if we win this, let alone draw.

Brian Wilkinson
27 Posted 20/01/2018 at 16:07:35
Rooney has took a lot of unfair stick for a while now, just watch him come off the bench and change the game.
Peter Hughes
28 Posted 20/01/2018 at 16:14:40
Where the fuck would we be without Rooney's 10 goals?
Lennart Hylën
29 Posted 20/01/2018 at 16:15:37
I am sorry to say it but it will be something EFC has not experienced since season 1950/51.
Neil Lawson
30 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:02:42
Shall we all play Pointless? An adjective that hasn't been used before to replace "pathetic, woeful, dire, hopeless, shite".
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

31 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:09:31
Poor James McCarthy. I noted Seamus soon after left his seat, probably going to comfort a club and international team mate.

I hope it's not career-ending for the lad.

As for the game and result, marginal improvement with the subs, but the performance didn't merit more than salvaging the draw we did.

A lot of nervous hesitant and just rank bad play on simple situations which players at this level should not be regularly making.

A week off due to the FA Cup exit before hosting Leicester in a couple of weeks. Drills and yet more drills in training, please, to improve our possession and distribution in all areas of the field.

Jim Bennings
32 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:11:03
What a shocking day .

Was that even a “football“ match that I watched today??

We are in a relegation battle make no mistake about it.

Anti-football under Allardyce.

Jim Bennings
33 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:14:06
Leicester will rinse us in 10 days time!!!
Peter Jansson
34 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:15:31
Seriously. Can anyone see that we have a midfield problem?

The midfield is the engine of any football team and we do not have an engine. Our engine can just go backwards or sideways and its maximum speed is about 15mph.

We have midfielders with offensive capabilities but they start on the bench. This is why I also think we still have a manager problem, as Big Sam do not see this apparently. We look better with Rooney in the midfield or without. After McCarthy got injured, we looked better when Rooney came in.

Stop complaining about our left-back issue please, that is a problem as well, but our main problem is in the midfield. Can we get one or two offensive midfielders please!? And a defensive midfielder who can pass or drive the ball forward. Schneiderlin is a total waste of space.

Hywel Owen
35 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:19:24
Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery to James McCarthy.

I seriously think that Big Sam should think twice before getting rid of Niasse.

George Cumiskey
36 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:20:14
Where to start? Well Sam has done what he said he'd do, he made us more boring.

Sigurdsson a complete flop in his so-called best position, Schneiderlin played his usual abysmal game, the back four... words fail me, and Rooney in my honest opinion is finished as a Premier League player.

Besides all that, we played really well... We can't keep blaming the last managers, this bloke has actually made us worse.

John Pierce
37 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:20:43
Everton look more comfortable getting panned by the big boys than trying to attack a bottom three side today.

What does that tell us? Defensive mindset, a team led by a manager who has no courage to win a game.

Despite being clearly fallible Rooney is the only player in the team with a range of passing good enough to effect the game.

I do have to check my feed sometimes, it looks like its on half speed.

Best wishes to Jimmy Mac, forced to make a last-ditch tackle due to errors from two team mates. Spineless.

Shaun McGough
38 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:21:29
Schneiderlin has to go. How many more poor performances does Sam and Craig have to see from this joke of a player?
Peter Jansson
39 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:22:04
We definitely still have a manager problem.

I think we need to sack Allardyce as fast as we can as he is a mirror of Koeman. Lets' do more of the same thing that does not work, and expect different results.

Peter Jansson
40 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:23:05
Seriously, wtf is Sam seeing in Schneiderlin? Is the man blind? If Schneiderlin had some balls he would put himself on the bench as he is completely useless.
Jim Bennings
41 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:23:45
Barry and McCarthy in the midfield in 2013-14

5th place finishes and sky high dreams!!!

Oh for the days to be an Everton fan.

Can't put up with another season of Big Sam's anti-football, sorry... troubleshoot your way to 40 points then see ya!

Phil Smith
42 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:24:15
I say it every week, Niasse should be the first name on the teamsheet. How many more goals might he have scored this season if he'd played a bit more? Need to have two strikers up front next match. Walcott is not a striker.
John Pierce
43 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:26:14
Peter, whilst I agree with the notion, I don't believe the club could take additional turmoil.

The filth being served up & the rest of the crap in this league will not see us relegated, but further self-inflicted action might do lasting damage.

Mathematical safety should see him booted out the door though, post haste!

Peter Jansson
44 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:29:32
Yes, John I see your point with more turmoil.

But, why the fuck should I use my spare time on Saturday following this shit? That is the question I am thinking about. Watching Everton does not whatsoever add to my life quality at all, rather the opposite.

Carl Allan
45 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:33:22
Do we have a training ground? If yes exactly what do our players practice on it as we are totally inept at everything.

You watch those twats across the park and they train their new recruits to be good at the basics such as passing,moving and taking corners. We need to get shut of all these tried and tested hangers on from players to coaches to the manager and bring in an overseas playing staff and way of thinking.

Not beating West Brom in two attempts since Christmas is unforgivable considering their form this campaign.

David Barks
47 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:33:54
Paul Lambert after one match with Stoke has taken more points than Allardyce has in the last six league matches. Paul Lambert's Stoke have scored as many goals in his one match as Allardyce's Everton have scored in the last six in the league.

The only reason I mention that is that when a team below you wins it shows that they can move quickly up the table. In one match Stoke have done more points than we have in six. Moyes' West Ham win next week and we don't, they'll go above us. Bournemouth win next week and we don't, they'll go above us.

This safety first Allardyce shite, with two defensive midfielders at home against West Brom will not result in wins. Instead it will result in losses or draws. It's terrible and will drag us down. We are now far worse than we were under Koeman and that is saying something. This isn't a blip. We're going on a month without a win.

Peter Jansson
48 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:35:43
I don't care about more turmoil....

Sack Sam.

Barry Williams
49 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:36:16
Phil Smith - 48

I have been saying the same all season. He scores, creates, is a nuisance. never stops running, hassles and harries and this can have a positive knock on effect!

Mike Powell
50 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:37:28
How low can we get? I cannot believe what I have just watched. I know it wasn't football... embarrassing.

What sort of team was that, Big Fat fucking Sam?!?! I have had enough off this shite – I don't know why I put myself through it every week.

Kenny, Holgate, Williams, Martina, Vlasic, Schniederlin – not good enough for Everton. We are Everton – we deserve better.

I can go on but what's the use? I feel sorry for Macca – hope you make a speedy recovery.

Jim Bennings
51 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:38:53
If we get to a May and there are actually THREE worse teams than Everton, I'll be astonished!!!
Michael Williams
52 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:40:41
Niasse – one goal every 99 minutes in the Premier League.

Including today.

Alex Mullan
53 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:40:45
Almost every time Holgate plays he costs a goal. It's like starting 1 nil down. He is so dodgy I despair.
David Barks
54 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:45:13
Alex,

If Ashley Williams is up beyond the halfway line, and McCarthy and Schneiderlin both fail to stop the ball, how is it that Holgate has alone cost a goal? Because he was the only defender actually anywhere near Rodriguez while the other 5 defensive players were nowhere to be seen?

Brian Porter
55 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:46:43
For God's sake, do NOT sell Niasse. We need his goals or are we so stupid as to sell our second leading scorer?
Julian Exshaw
56 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:50:17
I never thought I would say it but I can't wait for this season to end. I will take 4th last right now, we are that bad. After watching that so-called football match today, I was wondering how bad the Premier League must be if we are still in the top ten!

There are 6 good teams streaking away from the rest of the dross, dross that we are well and truly a member of. All my life I have been proud to be an Evertonian but days like these have me hiding my face in embarrassment.

Finally, a thought for the much maligned James McCarthy. I had been impressed with him since coming back from injury after injury. I hope to see him in a blue shirt again soon and wish him a speedy recovery.

Michael Lynch
57 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:56:54
Personally I think Sam knows what he's doing. He's had enough of a look now to realise that we simply can't play the kind of attacking, flowing football that some on here are calling for. Our squad just isn't good enough. When we do go for it, like we did in the second half at Bournemouth, our defence is picked apart on the counter attack.

There is not one player in our defence who is good enough to play in the Premier League right now. And, until the signing of Walcott, we had nothing to scare the opposition up front either.

I think there are three worse teams than us in the Premier League, so we won't go down, but we need a massive rebuilding process again in the summer. Complete new defence. Again, personally, I'm happy for that job to be done by Allardyce, he has the experience we need to do the job

Meanwhile, the rest of the season is going to be a miserable pile of shite like we saw today.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
58 Posted 20/01/2018 at 17:57:22
Playing 2 DM - why? Because we are not good enough at the back to get away with playing with just 1.

Problem is that even with 2 we are not solid enough. There are enough on here who see more than I do but with Schneiderlin, Gueye, Besic, Baningime and until today McCarthy you would have thought we could find 2 good enough to do the job.

We need a creative midfielder. As Brenda from Bristol would say "You're joking?! Not another one?" We got Sigurdsson and Klassen in the Summer and they are - I assume - not good enough. Add to that Rooney should now be a creative midfielder because he does not have the pace for a striker. How many more do we need to buy and sell before we find the right one?

It would seem that either the players are not good enough and can't play (for Koeman or Allardyce) or the manager's training and instructions are so bad we have made them worse. Can't be both - surely?

Brian Williams
59 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:01:07
A manager can't be blamed for a player/players being unable to pass the ball ten metres to a team mate.
A manager can't be blamed for players not having the strength or will to win a 50/50 ball.
A manager can't be blamed for cowardly play and that's something that more than one player showed today, complete and utter cowardice.
What the manager CAN be blamed for is team selection and formation and the manager got both totally wrong today.
That was as bad a performance as I can remember. Worse than last week because we were outhought, outfought, and outplayed by the second to bottom team in the league.
For those who still maintain we were never and still aren't at risk of relegation I wish you could have sat next to me today and explained how that's so because Everton were absolutely woeful today and lucky to draw.
But for McCarthy's bravery we'd have been out of that game completely.
John Boon
60 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:03:07
Such an injury to a player who always plays with his heart. All the best to James. Unfortunately when we do get injuries they seem to be really bad. Rondon was visibly distraught but it was just a very bad accident. His response does show that footballers care about each other, even if they are on the opposing team.

As regards the game, despite the fact that it was only West Brom, there was fractional improvement. We were so weak defensively and not just on their goal. Martina was not the reason that we lost.In fact he handled most situations quite well and actually used his left foot on a number of occasions.

I do not like being too critical of younger players but today Holgate demonstrated his lack of experience and his distribution was awful.

I have never been a fan of Allardyce, but I do think that the honeymoon is over. He needs to get the team moving from the start. Supporters are not supposed to be the experts, but it is obvious that the mid field needs to get the ball up far more quickly. That is the only way to create space and make openings. Once again I felt sorry for Tosun. I still think he has a lot to offer

We still need to be patient with the two new signings, but don't get rid of Niasse. He is still able to bring the unexpected to the team. We do have players with individual skills but as regards teamwork .UGH !!

Jim Bennings
61 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:05:39
The style of play IS down to the manager!!

HOOF HOOF HOOF!!!!!!

That's all I have seen at Everton this last 8 games, the football (if you can call it that) is Dark Ages dross!!!!

If the ball is in air much more, they will be placing our matches under Air Traffic Control.

George Cumiskey
62 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:07:04
Michael @57 completely gobsmacked by your post, couldn't believe what I was reading.

Allardyce knows what he's doing? He's actually made us worse than under Koeman.

Michael Lynch
63 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:09:27
George. We were worse under Koeman. We were shite and we were getting hammered every week. Now we're shite and occasionally get a point. We were shite under Unsworth too and got hammered by everyone. The common denominator is the squad. It's absolute shite.
Paul A Smith
64 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:10:04
Gareth Barry ran the midfield today. I said the same in December.

Rio Ferdinand mentioned isolation when he spoke of Tosun. He is damn right. Don't listen to me though. Keep believing we have good players who just need coaching right, as so many have said.

I have kept the same beliefs for months now and without being proved wrong there are still too many not seeing through this disaster.

Fella behind me 40 mins in says, "Oh, there's Gareth Barry there... I forgot he was playing."

I said "He's running the game, mate – how could you not notice him?

Unbelievable.

John Pierce
65 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:10:36
Michael,

Perhaps you should consider that Allardyce sees both attacking & defending seperately and not that they should be done as a team. The fact he cannot construct a side that can do both and relies heavily on moments from individuals is tantamount to saying he is just a one dimensional manager.

You make team better by coaching them to do both together. You cannot set teams up with tin hats on from minute one, when an attacking opportunity presents itself no one recognises it or has the courage to take it.

His management style is regressive, dull and transmits to a fractious fanbase, which now more than ever are turning on each other. Arguing with the next fella is a damn sight more entertaining than whats on the pitch.

Pragmatism is only tolerated when results come with it. Without the results under a pragmatist you have nothing.

Allardyce will be proven to be a poor piece of judgement from Moshiri if it hasn't done so already.

Dave Abrahams
66 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:11:12
Terrible injury to James McCarthy saving us from a possible defeat, one of the few players to take any credit from today's game. Pickford saved us again with some good saves. Niasse with his goal, determined running and ability to upset the opposition defence must be kept; sell any of most of the others.

We will be kept right on the edge to preserve our Premier League place. I hope it doesn't go to the last game of the season, West Ham away – oh the irony of playing Moyes's team to stay in the top flight.

Fran Mitchell
67 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:13:01
Allardyce will never ever be able to build an attacking team. Even If he tries, he'll be mediocre at best because ALL he's ever done, ALL he's ever set up a team to do is the crap we saw today.

Yes, the players need to take flack; bar Pickford and the U23 lads, I wouldn't be bothered at sale of the lot of em.

But Under Allardyce, we have no chance of progressing.

Winston Williamson
68 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:13:15
I'm more concerned about relegation now than I have ever been so far this season!

If the objective of Sam Allardyce was/is to get the defence solid and get us back to basics, why are we so fucking shit at it?

I'm not excusing any other manager we have had so far this season, before we get the 'he inherited etc' bullshit.

Sam Allardyce wa/is and never will be good enough for EFC.

Was this game more boring than the Spurs game? Yep! Well, at least he's truthful!

Rescue a point against the mighty WBA at home! Well done Sam! Attacking intent superb! We're not Sunderland! We don't celebrate draws at home!!!

Allardyce out!

Andy Walker
69 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:13:25
Alex 53 I was thinking almost the same, I would slightly mitigate what you said by saying Kenny and Holgate between them, cost us a goal a game. It's like starting 1-0 down most games.

Both are just not good enough for the top league, Kenny was particularly shite today, worst every Everton RB? Add in Martina out of position and a ‘past it' other CB (take your pick) and you have the problem.

Guardiola could manage us and we'd still be crap if we had the same squad. THE DEFENSIVE PLAYERS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

David Barks
70 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:14:34
Just watch City and see how close all the players are to each other. Then watch us and see that there is always a 20 yard gap between players. That is from the tactics employed by the manager. It really is that simple.

When Pickford gets the ball played back to him every player goes up to the halfway line and just waits for the hoof. When we have the ball around the halfway line every player spreads out and waits for the hoof. When we rarely get the ball out wide, we don't see our midfield getting into the box. Instead they maintain their defensive position, safety first tactics from the manager.

Seriously, just watch City. Most of the time it is nothing spectacular. Just players close together, 5-yard passes. At that distance it is much harder for the pass to be misplaced and the pass will of course be softer, so easier to control. Just five to ten yard passes, which means when a player gets the ball out wide the nearest man comes to him to give him another short pass.

Tom Brown
71 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:15:09
Best in a blue shirt today: Walcott.

Worst: Williams. Positioning terrible. Far too slow. See how far up the pitch he was for the goal? Totally deserted his post, exposing Holgate. Simply awful.

Johan Elmgren
72 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:15:09
Can we all please agree now that Allardyce is shite? This is so far away from the way we want to play.

And those who are saying the squad isn't good enough, we came seventh with this squad, bar Barkley & Lukaku last season.

Burnley are 7th! Do they have better players than us? No, they haven't!! This is solely a manager issue! Allardyce can't get the best out of our players, because he is not capable to manage attacking football. The only thing he can do is defend (although even that can be questioned after the latest results).

The man was appointed on all the wrong reasons, the fear of being relegated, instead of trying to get a manager who plays to win on our own terms.

Michael Lynch
73 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:15:19
John, our football is no worse than it was under Koeman or Unsworth. Haters are gonna hate with Sam, because it's easy to join in with the chorus of hoof-ball. But we're playing no more hoof ball under him than we did under Koeman or Unsworth.

I'm happy to give him a proper go at the job, because he's a decent manager. And because there are few other options. Everyone clamoured for Silva but Watford are in total freefall now. Everyone clamoured for Dyche but Burnley are only one place above us now. Like I say, I'll give Sam a chance.

Anthony Hawkins
74 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:15:55
Besides the sadness for McCarthy, my overriding thought is that we can not let Niasse leave before the summer. He's the one getting the goals!
Paul A Smith
75 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:16:20
David Barks – you're right, it wasn't solely Holgate's mistake. The mistake happened before and continued til the clear run on goal.

How is Ashley Williams an Everton player? Just look at him.

I remember saying on twitter Joe Allen is better than our CMs and got laughed at. It's still true today though.

Paul Ellam
76 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:17:46
I'm still trying to get my head around how this expensively assembled squad can be so bad. Koeman was right - the players are afraid. Afraid of positive forward passing, afraid of making mistakes, afraid to take responsibility, afraid of the ball.

Players that have been outstanding at either our club in the past or at other clubs now look like amateurs. What is going on in training? I thought Allardyce would get the team well drilled and hard to beat but we are as bad now as we were 6 months ago!

If we can limp on til the end of the season and stop up, I think the Board will relieve Sam of his duties and look elsewhere. What we have now is surely not in Mr Moshiri's long-term vision.

Instead of being excited for the future, it is now a depressing time to be an Evertonian. I will pray for salvation.

John Keating
77 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:20:14
How many posters in the last couple of weeks were asking why our so far best 4 defence of Kenny, Holgate, Williams and Martina were messed about with and broken up? Well they were back today...

How many were calling for Vlasic and Lookman? Well, one was in today...

How many called for Sigurdsson to be played in his best position? Well, he was today...

How many wanted Rooney dropped cos he was finished? Well, he was today...

I see from the forum not too many complaints with the starting 11; there weren't many in the ale house before the game. Well, most posters got most of what they asked for and nothing really changed.

This team are mid-table level at best and nothing will change until quality is brought in. Guardiola and Mourinho in tandem couldn't get this lot gelled

Forget all the fancy football – 40 points is all anyone should be interested in... nowt else!!!

George Cumiskey
78 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:20:48
Don't forget, Michael, we have a team full of international players, and he still can't get a performance out of them. Surely when he told the board he wanted the job, he said he could work with the players that were there, or they wouldn't've given him the ٤-million-a-season position.

He's proved conclusively he hasn't got the ability to take us forward.

Steavey Buckley
79 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:22:15
The Everton back 4 is certainly the worst I have seen for a long time; and even though West Brom score very few goals from open play they looked as though they should have scored more than once.

There is little quality in midfield, with every player wanting to give the ball away as soon as possible with a back pass or passed sideways. Rooney for all his experiences, gives the ball away so cheaply.

To sell Niasse would be criminal, as he gets in foreward positions and knows how to score.

Where Everton go from here, I don't know. This Everton team for all of their expensive signings look lost. No leaders. No one to get hold of the ball in dangerous areas and knows how to shoot accurately besides Niasse.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

80 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:22:28
Yep! We're on an awful run.

But stop fretting about the 'threat' of relegation.

I'm betting that exceedingly remote possibility will be comfortable tucked up and put to bed by the end of March.

As Evertonians we live in a bubble, focused naturally primarily – for some, only – on ourselves.

Lift your head and look around. As bad as we are, there are teams worse off than ourselves and in worse form.

I continue to look up. Burnley continue to fall away and are catchable. Leicester more of a challenge to overhaul, but 7th is not beyond us.

Not great, but certainly far more ambitious and plausible than those claiming we are destined to finish in the bottom three. It's not going to happen.

Frank Crewe
81 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:22:31
@George 62.

I agree with Michael. Our defence is appalling. Our full-backs and centre-backs are rubbish. They cannot defend to save their lives. They all need replacing. But it can't be done in one window, especially the Winter one.

Somebody asked why we play with 2 DM's? Answer: because everyone else does. If there is one thing I have noticed about managers is that they are sheep. If one of them comes up with a formation that brings some success, before long they are all using it.

The problem is 4-2-3-1 requires top class attacking full-backs, pacey wide players. creative CMs, and a top-quality striker. We don't have any of these so it just looks rubbish.

At the moment, Everton are no worse than most of the other sides outside the top 6. We have lost 4 and drawn 1 of our last 5 games yet we are still 9th. I suspect it will stay that way until the end of the season.

We need to change the way we play. A second forward and one less DM but it is just too risky. So let's just plod on. Only 14 more games to go. Then we can reassess our options.

Johan Elmgren
82 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:22:49
Their goal was mostly due to Williams making a strange decision to try to break up play and make a tackle deep inside their half... Rodriguez had a sea to run into... Very poor decision for such an experienced player.
Allan Board
83 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:23:50
Not sure what goes on at training, but I would presume not much two-touch pass and move. These players look terrified in case they make a mistake so are NOT showing for the ball-an absolute sin and does not reflect well on whoever is coaching them either.

This whole scenario reminds me of Man City when the money 1st came in. A lot was said about how much they had to spend and the best players would be bought over time,and the finest managers in world football approached etc.

It cost Mark Hughes his job when instant success didn't arrive,and dozens of players came and went-the real cost will never be known – but I think a billion pounds all told wouldn't be too far away to achieve what they have now.

The problem is that your current players who may or may not have been loyal are now realising the end is nigh for them and any work ethic is gone as they know they are going.

Man City had limitless funds to throw at it and in fairness didn't suffer fools gladly, but it still took time!

Everton won't be relegated this season, but if they really are serious about competing again in this league, then the money Moshiri has spent thus far is an absolute drop in the ocean compared to what he's going to have to spend.

The big question is – are these owners that serious?

Ray Robinson
84 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:27:56
I am not going on to bash Sam for the sake of it but surely he made a mistake today playing Holgate and Williams together?

I know that when he took charge those two managed several clean sheets and generally played well – but how they can be seen as our best central pairing, I'll never know. Particularly today when the two best headers of the ball were left out – Jagielka and Keane.

Albion dominated us in the air all over the park. We had nobody of their physical stature anywhere on the park, much like at Wembley last week.

David Barks
85 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:28:26
John,

You conveniently left out the fact that the biggest issue we've complained about is his persistence with two defensive midfielders at the expense of an attacking midfielder. You know how important the central midfield is right, that they essentially set the tone for your team's ability to control the game? Yet Vlasic was removed while Schneiderlin was allowed to continue to be as useless as ever.

Also, the chopping and changing of the defense is what hurts stability. Going back to one lineup and then changing, then going back is a problem. It's the change week to week that helps with confusion.

Danny Baily
86 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:31:02
Real threat of relegation if we can't pick up maximum points against opponents like West Brom. I make it 45 points maximum that we can get now (based on remaining fixtures). Very little margin for error.
Jim Bennings
87 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:32:11
As most of us are now aware, the Holy Grail is the 40-point mark, it seems like such a long way off and probably won't be reached until early April at best.

We can't score goals, barely create chance and now we have become a shambles at the back again, a better team than West Brom would have literally destroyed us in that last 10 minutes when we did our very best to hand them the win.

I'm frankly appalled by how bad Everton have become since the summer, we have thrown aimless money on loads of players without having a single clue about game management or trying to adopt an identity, a style of play.

At least under Martinez he tried to reintroduce an Everton team that Evertonians could appreciate and relate to and a team that attacked and created bags of chances. Okay, defensively it wasn't great but, compared to this Everton which is absolutely awful at both ends of the pitch, it was purely fantasy football!!!

I truly hate going to Goodison these days, toxic atmosphere, half interested performances all over the pitch, ale house football that you'd see on a Sunday league pitch, no chances created hardly, no goals, no excitement, frankly it's just utter shit!!!!

We have regressed unbelievably since Moshiri came and it begs the question maybe we sacked Roberto too soon. Perhaps if he'd had a bottomless pit that Koeman pissed away on shite, then we would be in a better place?

After all we are still relying on Martinez signing to nick most of our goals in terms of striking option with Niasse!!?

Tosun will not succeed here playing that type of football today, for Tosun in the last two games has been so isolated that you might just as well have saved the money and stick Niasse or Sandro there alone!

I just don't know where Everton really go from here even if they do bore, scrap and fluke their way to safety this season; it's hard to see how anything changes next season.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

89 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:32:52
Nonsense, Danny.

And not true, Jim Bennings.

See why in this link, post 82:

Lyndon's Editorial

George Cumiskey
90 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:35:14
Jay @80 – teams like West Brom you mean?

Frank @81 I know we are playing shite, but wasn't Allardyce brought in on a King's Ransom to do something about it? Which he patently doesn't seem to have the ability to do so.

Hugh Jenkins
91 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:35:18
Once again, Big Sam is saying "Everton players know they didn't perform".

That being the case, surely the time has come to drop those "underperforming" players and replace them with people who might just "have a go".

Noticeably (as many feared when Big Sam was appointed) Davies, Calvert-Lewin and Lookman were not in the squad today. Neither was Baningime.

If the "established" players like Schneiderlin are not going to try / perform, what other option do we have other than to bring back the youngsters and let them have a go?

With Tosun and Walcott already signed, Niasse once again proving his worth, why not try putting a couple of the youngsters in midfield?

They certainly have the pace and desire and are almost all "forward"-looking when they have the ball at their feet.

John Pierce
92 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:35:34
Michael, judge the football on its merits not the previous incumbents.

Have you considered all three were mistakes? Comparing degrees of shit is not the bar set at Everton. Perhaps the bar is so low now you believe what Allardyce serves up is actually acceptable?

All three woefully below the standards of Everton Football Club. Move on.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

93 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:41:22
Hmmm... for some reason the link I offered is defaulting to THIS thread, rather than the intended one.

So here is a copy-paste of the post I attempted to reference showing the myth of the 40 point claims:

The 40 points to avoid relegation is a myth.

In the 22 seasons since the Premier League converted to a 20-team league, 66 teams have been relegated. Only 3 of them were relegated with 40 points or more:

Sunderland in 1996-97 – 40 points
Bolton in 1997-98 – 40 points
West Ham in in 2002-03 – 42 points

The average points returned for the 3 relegation spots in those 22 years reads:

18th – 36 points
19th – 33 points
20th – 26 points

From that, you can conclude 37 points is the more realistic tally to be safe from relegation.

Everton is currently 10 points shy of that tally with 15 games to play. If we can't earn that (or considerably more) from the remaining fixtures, we quite simply deserve to go down.

It isn't going to happen. It was never going to happen, as poor as this season has been.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

94 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:43:59
And I know it's anathema to some, but Sam Allardyce bang on the money about his team and the performance today.

Link

Frank Crewe
95 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:44:26
George @90.

He did. We are now 9th instead of 19th. As for being brought in on a King's Ransom, that's par for the course these days. Everyone is brought in on a King's Ransom. He was brought in because we were all shitting ourselves that Koeman was going to get us relegated.

Now that that fear has passed, suddenly we should be one of the league's elite again. Well we are not, we are mid-table also-rans. Get used to it because it's going to take a lot of time and considerably more money to get Everton back into the top six, no matter who the manager is.

Paul A Smith
96 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:47:44
Today, we had probably the two shortest centre-backs in the league,
a poor right-back playing left-back and a right-back who isn't ready for every opponent in the league.

In midfield, we had a defensive midfielder who wasn't as good as Gareth Barry when he was next to him, playing next to another defensive midfielder who continues to show what I saw in his first 10 games for the club. (Not good enough.)

Sigurdsson moved in behind the isolated Tosun and Walcott not quite there yet. Put those things together and it makes a lovely little recipe for disappointment.

Somebody tell me what Allardyce could have done to improve those handicaps for today's game?

Dave Abrahams
97 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:47:48
Jay (80), I hope you are correct about us staying up, in fact I get a little crumb of comfort every time you or any Everton fan says we will stay up and then I watch them perform and wonder were you get your confidence from.

We just don't have eleven players who can play together to make a half-decent team. Today, like the last few Premier League games, was another woeful performance, yet strangely after the cup game versus Liverpool, I was given something to hope for.

Jay, keep telling us we will not go down.

Jim Bailey
98 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:48:20
Schneiderlin needs fucking off!!!!!
Jay Woods
[LAT]

99 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:48:54
I missed the second half due to the usual family demands on a Saturday, but from the first it was clear we have no midfield enforcement going on; maybe we let Barry go too soon.

And, as usual, our fullbacks offer zero attacking threat.

The news about McCarthy is simply terrible; let's hope it's not career-ending for him. His morale must be six foot under right now, after what he's been through.

Danny Baily
100 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:50:25
Look at the fixtures. Assuming 3 points at home against the likes of West Brom and 1 point against those teams away we could have finished on 47 points before today. Now it's 45. We are not in the clear yet. Admittedly, that's assuming no points against the teams above us.
Ray Robinson
101 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:52:10
I don't normally do team selections, but restrict selection from the following players for a while to allow everyone to get to know one another's game and a pattern of play to emerge:

Pickford

Kenny
Keane
Jagielka
Holgate (yes, play him out of position, can't be worse than Cuco)

two from :
Gueye
Davies
Baningime

four from:
Sigurdsson
Walcott
Tosun
Niasse
Lookman
Calvert-Lewin

That is a decent enough squad to experiment with and stick with for a while.

To quicken up the pace, get rid off the slow-down merchants:

* No Martina – constantly turning back inside;
* No Williams – passing the ball across the back and generally too slow and a general liability
* No Schneiderlin – with his QE2 impersonations
* No Rooney – to start with (totally lost his pace)

Bolasie, Vlasic, Sandro, Rooney, Williams, Martina on bench

Besic, Klaassen, surplus to requirements.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

102 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:54:18
Dave mate... you're a man who likes a punt and so, presumably, studies form.

Read my post @ 93.

If you need further reassurance, read my post @ 114 on Lyndon's recent editorial on Sam Allardyce's 'no-risk approach'.

It clearly highlights why we are exactly where we deserve to be in the league and why we are in no danger of relegation.

Ralph Basnett
103 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:57:44
How a manager can get it wrong, week-in & week-out, is beyond me. Where is Tom Davies?

If Gana is on the bench, he is fit enough to play always ahead of that fraud wearing the Number 2 who I can't bring myself to mention.

Why on every throw do we wait for the opposition to mark everyone, then take the throw?

Why two centre-halves on the bench?

Why buy two attackers and state in the press we will not be filling the huge void that is the left-back?

Why at home to one of the worst teams in the Premier League do we have one up front when they have three?

Too many questions and not enough answers – having spent nearly £200 million in 6 months!!!!

Brian Wilkinson
104 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:58:22
Said it for a while, Niasse always plays better when he comes off the bench rather than starting.

Will our luck ever change on the injury front? I can handle just a couple of weeks, but whenever our players pick one up, it's months, even seasons they seem to be out for.

Looking for a positive for fellow posters but cannot come up with any.

Fran Mitchell
105 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:59:38
The defenders of Allardyce say:

"But we're playing no more hoof ball under him than we did under Koeman or Unsworth"

But this is the exact problem. Koeman got sacked, and Unsworth was not hired because we we were playing shit. Now Allardyce, in his 3rd month as manager, has had no tangible effect, no improvement and quite possibly regressed.

That is the indictment.

Andy Crooks
106 Posted 20/01/2018 at 18:59:52
Michael (#73), what has Allardyce ever done in his entire career to suggest he is a decent manager? What has he won?

Now you may argue that he has never managed a club with resources. I would suggest that no club with the remotest inkling of ambition would touch him with a bargepole.

Today was inept. If Unsworth was still our coach I reckon, had he served up that crock of shit today, he would be hounded out of our club. When will Sam's admirers reach the stage when " Sam inherited a car crash", stops being an excuse.

The fact that we will not be relegated does not alter my view that this man is not fit to manage our club. He is a self serving, unimaginative, tactically inept dinosaur.

Ray Robinson
107 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:03:24
Jay, I know that statistically 37 points will keep you up but who wants to be on 37 points with one or two matches to play when a defeat / two defeats could mathematically see you go down if all other results conspire against you?

I want 40 points as soon as possible so that we are not in the relegation equation at all, come the final run-in. Who wants to rely on other results having to go our way?

Mark McParlan
108 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:06:13
So I'm just back from another one of Sam Allardyce's abject and painful Goodison experiences. The sudden upturn of results when he first took over is well and truly a thing of the past.

Looking back at that period, it becomes ever more apparent that we were simply coasting to results against poor relegation-fodder sides through what was basically blind luck. Every game we seemed to win a penalty or two to see us through.

That whole sequence beginning with Huddersfield and ending with Swansea papered over the cracks – no, not cracks, huge gaping chasms in this squad. What we are experiencing now is the reality.

I don't know where to start with this match particularly.

Tosun. I'll say it now, you can thank me for my foresight later, is a player I am absolutely terrified for. According to many people, apparently new signings aren't allowed to have question marks levelled at them. I disagree. I've seen nothing of him in the two starts we've had to go off.

This is a player we've paid 㿅 million for. Does the fact that he has scored 8 goals in the Turkish league this season, less than Arouna-bloody-Kone's 9, not concern anyone at all? Kone was a joke around these parts. And going off league statistics this season, is a better striker than Tosun?

But that's not why we bought him, people say. It's because he's played well in the Champions League this season. That sounds reasonable – but it really shouldn't be. He's played six games in that competition this season. 6. SIX. You don't buy a player off the back of 6 games. Obviously I want him to do well, but personally it was such a random signing for a lot of money, and I've no confidence in him myself. Just a bit too much of an unknown entity for me to be confident.

Walcott is different. He has a proven track record time and time again in the Premier League, landing himself with a very handsome goal tally of 19 with Arsenal last season. He looked the business at points today, and came out with an assist to the goal.

Team selection has been pulled apart from all corners today. Despite what everyone else seems to see, I think the defence that Sam put out today is the best back 4 we have available at the club. There is no right-back better than Kenny (although I agree he was very poor today), and no left-back better than Martina (possibly the most underrated player at the club).

Everyone just decided from the off that because he was a Southampton reject, it meant he was obviously absolutely appalling in every respect. Too many fans have judged all his performances from those biased eyes).

Please don't tell me about Garbutt and Galloway, give me strength. Garbutt especially (24 now, by the way), hasn't pulled on an Everton shirt in years and years. He couldn't make the bench at Wigan Athletic, and now Galloway likewise at bottom-of-the-Championship, conceded-most-goals-in-the-division Sunderland, who are even attempting to cancel his loan spell he's been so awful in the lower division.

These people are not any more of an answer than Martina. However, the entire left-back situation calls into question our recruitment policy. With age and injuries increasingly catching up to him, Baines is impossible to rely on, week-in & week-out, anymore. We had him playing 90 minutes of every game at the start of this season – and surprise surprise, he gets injured. Return date still unknown. I fear the worst, his career could basically be over by this point.

So why, in the name of God, did whoever is in charge of transfers (and between Manager Koeman, DoF Walsh, Chairman Kenwright, and owner Moshiri, we have no idea who that is) – not sign a left-back when the now-unreliable Baines was the only one at the club? It's absolute madness when you consider we threw out 㿙 million on Sigurdsson who we didn't even need. The long-term future of the left-back position of this club must be sorted as soon as possible.

Williams for me is one of the best players at Everton football club, and by far and away the best defender. He's much better than anyone of the (fit) fullbacks, he's better than Holgate, the over-the-hill Jagielka, and Keane who melts away and allows the shot whenever attackers run at him. I just don't understand the criticism of him at all. If you don't believe me, let's look at how many goals we've conceded with our without Williams in the team, under Allardyce.

Match /// Goals Conceded /// Williams

Huddersfield (H) /// 0 /// Yes
Liverpool (A) /// 1 /// Yes
Newcastle (A) /// 0 /// Yes
Swansea (H) /// 1 /// Yes
Chelsea (H) /// 0 /// No
West Brom (A) /// 0 /// Yes
Bournemouth (A) /// 2 /// No
Man United (H) /// 2 /// Yes
Liverpool (A) /// 2 /// No
Tottenham (A) /// 4 /// No
West Brom (H) /// 1 /// Yes

It is clear for all to see that our defence is better with Williams in it.

I didn't agree with the midfield 2 today. I think Rooney and Gueye are each better than both McCarthy and Schneiderlin. This doesn't really need much explaining and I think most Evertonians would agree with me here. The game changed with Rooney coming on – he provided the cross for the goal.

I agreed with the front 4 today except I would have started Bolasie over Vlasic, who has done nothing since Koeman got sacked and is living off the reputation of his goal against Limassol. It's not even clear what his actual position is.

It's probably best if I end this now. So much to ponder. I do know that Allardyce should not be here come the summer though. We've had enough of his 'football'.

Ray Robinson
109 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:09:03
Andy, I'm not defending Allardyce but what would you have us do then? Sack another manager?

The fact is he did inherit a car crash. The time to review the manager's position is at the end of the season unless we want to completely destabilise matters and appoint a third / fourth manager in the same season.

Like him or loathe him, we've got to go with what we've got for the time being.

George Cumiskey
110 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:13:50
From what I'm reading here on a lot of the posts, Allàrdyce is doing quite a good job with the squad he's got, and there's no worries about relegation.

It's all the fault of the last two managers and the players they bought, that after a few more transfer windows everything will be hunky dory.

Oh and that honest Sam is bang on (as someone has said) for saying what we have all have seen and said many times, but seems to doing nothing at all about it.

You couldn't make it up.

Michael Lynch
111 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:16:37
Andy @106, what has ANY manager won who was not at a Manc club or a London club in the last couple of decades?

You can come up with the odd manager who has lucked into a a trophy once, like Martinez did, but to play the "what has he achieved" game in the modern Premier League is pointless.

What have Everton won in the past two decades?

Dave Abrahams
112 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:16:57
Jay (102), yes I understand we only need 12 points or even 9 if 36 will keep us up, they just do not look like getting 9 points. The confidence has drained out of the team once again, none of them really wanted the ball today such was the state they were in.

Thank God for Pickford, Niasse and James McCarthy's brave tackle to keep us in the game, at a terrible cost to himself.

Jay, I don't need to tell you that the club is in a terrible mess and it is very hard to see us getting out of it, even if we stay up this season.

Oliver Molloy
113 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:21:20
Sam Allardyce was brought to the club to keep us up. Certainly no owner / chairman who claim to have a vision and ambition for their club to compete and play good football at the right end of the table would consider him as the manager to do just that.

Allardyce is the manager who reminds his players before the game "We start with a point so that's what we want lads – anything more is bonus but we want that point!"

He just isn't the man for Everton FC in my opinion.

On a different subject: I read somewhere that the success rate of European etc strikers doing the business in the Premier League is not great – anyone else have a bad feeling about Tuson already?!

Paul Birmingham
114 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:27:51
At this rate we'll drag to the 40 point mark, but after last weeks abject showing , yet again the levels of mediocrity were eclipsed in my view purely as being at home to a team that hadn't won in 22 games up till the last two weeks, sums up the state of the club.

Agony and more agony it seems for the duration of this season. The club has lost its way in terms of playing strategy, in my view.

A point is a point but based on today's back four display Leicester will turn us over and Pickford will be busier than today.

I feel sorry for Tosun and more so for McCarthy, as at least he put himself around, and that's another 12 months out.

Not much more to say as every one feels drained of belief and almost hope of playing a decent match at GP and away games – decent games have become extinct..

I hope and hope that my gut feelings are wrong but the basics in football drills has gone and without basic passing and a game plan and a regular team, then this is gonna be the hardest slog over the line, in modern times.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

115 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:29:34
Andy @ 106...

You know, it really is possible for people to correctly state "Sam inherited a car crash" without being a blind acolyte or 'admirer' of Sam.

The two are not mutually inclusive.

Sam Allardyce was not my choice to replace Koeman as our full-time manager.

I consider it was a panic decision by a dithering board who prevaricated too long on the appointment.

As I said just last week, I sincerely doubt Sam Allardyce is the manager to assemble a team playing the type of football the overwhelming majority of Evertonians, I am sure, crave.

I also said we need our 'Pochettino' as Spurs lucked out with to really turn our club around. Who and where our 'Pochettino' is, I have no idea.

But regardless of what you think of the fellah, he most certainly did inherit a train wreck of a team.

Do I consider his sole remit is to avoid relegation? Is it buggery! He needs to make them more competent and able in a zillion different ways. Entertaining us now and again would be appreciated, too.

That all said, personally I have no other option than to accept Sam Allardyce for the remainder of this season as the man in possession.

The board is NOT going to sack him before then, as some are canvassing for.

And we are not going to be under any risk or threat of relegation, either. Rather, we should be looking upwards in the hope of an outside chance of landing a European place for next season – something else the club and its fans need as a bare minimum, season upon season.

Brent Stephens
116 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:31:14
A variety of managers over the last few years. With a variety of footballing styles. And still no light at the end of the tunnel. Is there a single player who performs well in most games? No. How many games are there in which a handful of players have a very good game? Next to none?

I have issues with Sam's team selections and tactics. And regardless of selection and tactics, the players cannot read the game in terms of threats and opportunities, cannot make robust challenges when needed, cannot control the ball, cannot pass the ball.

No great performances today, but I despair at Schneiderlin. He went up to the head the ball at one point and, with nobody within yards of him, he visibly half-bottled it and raised his arms to protect himself - from what? He is scared in tackle. He is scared of getting hurt. He can't spot a pass that will go forward. Ultra-cautious. I hung my head in despair.

Tony Hill
117 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:38:22
Woeful, of course. I thought it looked a goodish side pre-match, Vlasic being given his chance, Sigurdsson in his proper position. But there was just no performance, the players' touch, passing and movement – the basics – were terrible yet again. It's as though a bad spell has been put over the whole operation, whichever manager we have seems to make no difference to our ponderous, frightened mindset. It's baffling and deeply worrying.

We can all see it. Allardyce will go if we don't improve but I doubt there's anyone who can shake our zombified club and team back to life, certainly not within the foreseeable. Nor, looking at our players and the way the club is run, will many be queuing up to try, even at the rates we pay.

We'll be okay this season but the Aston Villa warning is still very much in my mind.

Peter Jansson
118 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:39:13
I can not believe that some of you in here think that Big Sam is doing a good job. I know our squad is bad, but he lets the worst midfielder Schneiderlin play game after game.

I know we have no super midfielder as they all have their weaknesses. But if we isolate what they are good at we can have a look.

Gana Gueye – is a good ballwinner and has good physics. But, he is useless going forward and make passes and get the game going. Gana Gueye when on the pitch needs a midfielder beside him that can take the ball forward and pass.

Rooney - You can say whatever crap you want about Rooney. His is over the top yes but he is the best passing player in Everton and he still got the smell for goals. He can take the ball forward, pass forward and score goals. His weaknesses in midfield is that he is getting slow and he is not a ball winner.

I think the best midfield mix in Everton is Gana Gueye and Rooney.

If we look at the rest of the pack.

Schneiderlin – I don't think he is good at anything. His ball possession is bad, passes is bad, going forward is bad, defending is bad, he looses possession all the time, give misplaces tackles.

Tom Davies – he has some qualities. Good stamina and decent technique but overall he is not top notch in anything. A decent player, but that's it.

Klaassen – I seriously don't know how good he is as I have hardly seen him play. I think he deserves to get the chance.

McCarthy – injured

Besic – no

Baningime – I want to see more of him as I think he is better overall midfielder than most of the once above.

These above are the players we have that I call central midfielders.

So what then to do with the midfield? It is apparent that we lack a solid offensive midfielder that also have good physics. We need to buy one or two midfielders as our bunch is not good enough.

The only really good central midfield pairing today as I see it is Gueye and Rooney, but we cannot really expect them to play every game for 90 minutes. All other midfield pairing options is not very optimal. The jokers Baningime and Klaassen does simply not get their chance.

Also,

Lookman – I don't know if he is a midfielder or whatever but how the hell can he not be on the bench?? He is one of the best offensive players in Everton and he does not even make the bench. How is that?

Sigurdsson – I don't know. He has some qualities. But I am not sure he is good enough or if his qualities match our current squad. I think we should try him in his so called best position for a run of games. Like at least 10 games. If that do not work I am afraid he was wasted money.

Kunal Desai
119 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:45:42
I truely do hope that Allardyce's remit has been to get the club safe and he will walk away in the summer.
Bill Gall
120 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:47:40
Why are people complaining about big Sam? I think he should be congratulated, as he said he was going to get us playing more boring football and he succeeded, and most of us thought that was impossible to do.

On a more serious note, I do not believe that there is anyone in football who was not aware of what type of football you would be getting from Sam Allardyce and this just reflects on how poor we have as a board running the club. What is the saying: 'You reap what you sow'.

We may have been playing bad when Koeman was fired, but it looks as if the board panicked in their decision to bring in Allardyce but we are not aware of who else at the time wanted to come to the club. Going on the polls at that time, I believe that the majority of the fans did not want him, but when have the Chairman and board ever listened to the fans?

Derek Knox
121 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:50:48
I didn't see a lot of the game today, as I have not been too great, but looking at the comments and bits of highlights, it mustn't have made pleasant viewing.

We have all been saying for weeks that Schneiderlin is part of a manifold problem, yet beggars belief by getting picked almost every game. Martina too is clearly not a very good defender on the right, but on the left he is worse and keeps getting picked also.

Apart from playing with the equivalent of nine men, others are getting out of position to cover, resulting in a shambles.

Unless these two are dropped pronto, I can't see any improvement happening. It could be argued that with the left-back slot, there is no alternative, even putting Jags or one of the U23s would be better than playing a poor defender out of position.

Jamie Crowley
122 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:51:48
39,061 suffering souls having to watch that shit. You're all saints in my eyes.

Whenever we gain possession we rarely go forward. We are defensive first, slow, ponderous, can barely string 3 passes together...

I've had an epiphany.

For the rest of my life Everton will not win things. They just won't. The league is too competitive, the odds so stacked, and currently management is safety first in all respects, top to bottom. It's not a recipe for a trophy.

My epiphany is simple: no matter what we do we will finish between 6th and 12th. So what I want for that in return is entertaining football.

I tried to give Sam a chance. I just want to win, and honestly don't care how – until today.

Having a mindset going into watching a game knowing full well you're about to watch mind-numbingly turgid shit is depressing in the extreme.

Get through this season and fire Sam. Thank you sir for safety, your approach and ethos dictate we need to move in a different direction.

Bring in a manager who wants to attack with abandon – uninhibited and bordering on reckless. I don't care if we leak goals – it doesn't matter in the end. We won't finish high enough up the table to make a difference. Just play a brand of football I actually enjoy watching. And in doing so we won't get relegated – we can buy enough talent to easily outscore the smaller clubs. We won't finish bottom three – there will always be three teams worse than us.

Today I feel I've lost hope. There's really no point and you therefore can't justify the horrific shit on display under Allardyce.

Jeff Armstrong
123 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:52:22
Morgan Schneiderlin is playing even worse currently than Cuco Martina, and Schneiderlin is playing in his preferred position. He does not want the ball, never shows at throws, he treats the ball like a hot potato, giving it back to where it came from without even looking for forward options. How Allardyce even considers him before Gueye, Davies, Baningime, Rooney and even Besic is beyond me.

Was I seeing things at Anfield when Lookman came on and helped us back into it? Cos he seems to have pissed someone off big time since! Not even on the bench. Unbelievable. Oh, and I think young Holgate is a bit dim.
Tony Hill
124 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:52:38
How is Allardyce to blame for the fact that Vlasic (whom most wanted to see in the team) and our 㿙m creative talent were both utterly frozen and hopeless today? That isn't a managerial or tactical issue – they were simply fucking awful, and they weren't alone.

Our players are without any observable mental strength and, while it is particularly acute now, it's been that way for an awfully long time. Goodison: the place where talent shrivels.

Roger Helm
125 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:58:12
That must be the least-deserved point we have ever gained. WBA were so much the better team and should have won by two goals were it not for bad luck, poor finishing and Pickford's saves. As usual, we were slow, weak, unfit, uncommitted, unconnected and frankly not trying very hard. We won hardly any aerial battles or 50/50s. Even poor players should be able to battle. We have never looked properly fit and strong since Moyes and his conditioning coaches left.

How on earth did we spend so much to accumulate so many players who are mediocre or just plain not good enough? Only Walcott (probably) and Pickford were reasonable buys. How can we have a squad of over 30 players and only one left back, himself past his sell-by date? Something is very wrong with our club. Lukaku's goals papered over the cracks, but now we need a completely rebuilt squad – but who would take on the job?

Steven Jones
126 Posted 20/01/2018 at 19:59:54
Big Sam's interview – tells it how it is.

Lots of hard work this week.

He is as frustrated as us.

Another week of hard work and see where they get to. We need consistent management team to build up an approach, a method, a style and players that get used to each other and the formation and style of play.

I like Sam and he deserves every chance to get it right and I believe he will.

John Harrop
127 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:00:01
Jamie (#122),

Bring in a manager who wants to attack with abandon – uninhibited and bordering on reckless.

We've had one of those – Roberto Martinez was his name. Mind you, I'd take him back tomorrow in place of Allardyce.

Peter Jansson
128 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:01:43
Tony Hill,

Sam Allardyce is to blame because he seem not to understand our midfield problems.

He continue to play Schneiderlin the worst player in the league.

He does not understand that Rooney and Gana Gueye is the best central midfield pairing we have.

He does not put one of the best offensive players Lookman in the team.

He plays Holgate in central midfield even though he sucks in this position.

He plays 2 and 3!!! defensive midfielders that have absolutely no capabilities of going forward in the same lineup.

should I go on?

There is absolutely no improvement in the midfield, and defence is falling back to the old sins as under Koeman.

Sam Allardyce is responsible for playing the most boring and bad football I have seen in my life.

Jamie Crowley
129 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:02:06
How is Allardyce to blame for the fact that Vlasic (whom most wanted to see in the team) and our 㿙m creative talent were both utterly frozen and hopeless today?

Tony – he started them? He didn't have any tactical answers to solve their issue of being "frozen". Or are you implying they just took the day off?

So ya, he's to blame in part.

He's also to blame for instilling this defense first, boring as shit, bypass the midfield crap we are subjected to watching.

Oliver Molloy
130 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:04:43
Bill – Never!

Kenwright wanted Dyce or Rodgers (the latter declined, apparently). Moshiri wanted Simone or Silva. Walsh convinced Kenwright that the club needed Allaryce to sort it all out.

I think you will see Moshiri spend another load of money in the summer on a big name manager and more players. Who these will be, we will have to wait and see... but it's nailed on, in my opinion.

Someone mentioned earlier on, if Martinez had not been sacked and had had all this money, where would be?

George Cumiskey
131 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:05:11
So, Tony, you think Allardyce is doing okay, and it's not his fault he can't motivate his players?

Isn't that what he's being paid £6 million a year for?

Sam Hoare
132 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:05:28
Player recruitment is surely the crux of the problem.

We have spent an absolute fortune in the last two years and yet gone noticeably backwards.

£200m+ on a startlingly mediocre and unbalanced squad.

Steven Jones
133 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:05:37
Schneiderlin has to go. Baningime is without a doubt better.

In fact, pairing him and Laim Walsh before we shipped him to Bristol could not do worse than Schneiderlin and Gana.

Jamie Crowley
134 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:06:24
John,

Exactly. And I'd have him back tomorrow.

It currently doesn't matter! We're not finishing anywhere other than between 6th and 12th!

So we can watch Fat Sam bore the shit out of us, or lament loses to (quite honestly better) clubs when we blow a 3-2 lead and lose 3-4.

Who fucking cares!? Give me some exciting football!

It is so awful to watch!!

Si Cooper
135 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:09:59
Tony, I haven't seen the game so I am keen to hear some assessment of the likes of Vlasic and Gylfi. Did they perform poorly or were they under used or isolated? Did anyone standout in terms of movement off the ball, care of possession, creativity?

If Big Sam inherited a squad that is still not fit for purpose why is he saying off loading players is the priority? I don't for one second think public pronouncements like that in any way strengthen our bargaining position with other clubs. Anybody we enquire about is going to come at an inflated price no matter how much we kid on.

Tony Hill
136 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:13:17
Peter (#128), Jamie (#129), George (#131), none of you has answered my question. The players I mentioned were simply dreadful, on a basic level of performance despite being given the opportunity to show what they can do.

Blaming Allardyce is easy but it's a cop out, not because he is showing anything to encourage us (and may have to go) but because it's time some proper scrutiny was applied to those on the field who have failed us for so long.

Jamie Evans
137 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:16:58
I saw our club captain get particularly riled by a so-called supporter today. If anyone else was sat at the Gwladys Street end of the Family Enclosure, you may also have witnessed it.

Nice one, Jags. 👏👏 ... I didn't know you had it in you.

Clive Rogers
138 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:17:05
Roger, #125, there is something wrong with our club. It goes by the name of Kenwright.
Clive Rogers
139 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:21:03
Si (#135),

Vlasic is not a winger and had to be taken off at half time as he was losing the ball consistently.

Sigurdsson had a stinker and offered nothing creatively.

Tony Hill
140 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:21:11
Si, as I've said above, they were just bad. Full stop. So were most of the others. Of course, a man being paid ٤m a year will stand or fall on his performance but my worry is that things run much deeper. I agree with Sam Hoare about the dire effects of our recruitment but we desperately need a leader on the pitch as a bare minimum – a real, hard leader. That would be some sort of start.
Nick Tierney
141 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:24:25
Football itself is rotten. We have too many players earning an absolute fortune who don't have the desire to shed the extra sweat to ensure victory. They lead a cushy lifestyle and have no motivation to win.

The tactics are hopeless and the formation is ridiculous – especially when playing the likes of WBA. Why are two defensive midfielders needed??

I have never ever been as bored watching Everton. I'm so glad I don't go every week.

Jamie Crowley
142 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:29:28
Tony,

Possibly Sigurdsson and Vlasic are both attacking players, in a system that stifles the shit out of creativity and attacking intent? Ergo, shite performances from players of that ilk.

Now that I've answered your question directly (well, kind of as the two sentence answer was 50% rhetorical question) and blamed it on Allardyce, is it still a cop out?

Steve Cotton
143 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:30:38
Just watching Premier League tonight. Congratulations to Rio Ferdinand criticising the FA for bringing up Mason Holgate tweets when he was 15 when they should looking into the actions of Firmino. Someone has talked the FA into changing the direction of this enquiry...

He's right. Fucking disgrace...

George Cumiskey
144 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:33:36
Tony you are right about the scrutiny, but not only the players the manager the coaching staff, the fitness regime the board and the chairman, need replacing. Let's not forget the so called Director of Football, who seems to be calling the shots.
Si Cooper
145 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:35:15
Tony and Clive, thanks for the additional info. Sky no longer show 50 minutes from each game so it is much harder to assess general performances, and sometimes a player can look much worse if they are mainly being supplied with rubbish or have no outlet when they do have it. A player can also just be anonymous because everything goes down the opposite flank.

I was surprised that Bolasie and Walcott didn't both start this game and generally I'd prefer the youngsters to be brought on when the oppositions defence was tiring, but it is disappointing if Vlasic messed up everything that came his way.

Peter Jansson
146 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:35:50
Tony Hill,

You don't understand what I am trying to say? Or, you did not read all my posts here?

Football is a team sport where all the 10 players + goalie need to fit together.

As I said in one of my first comments, the central midfield is the engine of a football team, when the midfield does not work the team does not work. We have an engine going sideways and backwards. That isolates whoever you play upfront. You cannot play good attacking football without support from the midfield. That is the main reason we suck today.

Sam Allardyce seem not to understand this problem = in my eyes therefore he is a bad manager.

Do you need this in other words to understand?

Plus he has a bunch of other problems as I have stated in my other comments.

Tony Hill
147 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:36:39
Jamie (#142), yes it is. Both players are indeed attacking but they did nothing of the sort today – not because of any system or managerial influence, but because they din't step up, at all.
Tony Hill
148 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:36:39
Jamie (#142), yes it is. Both players are indeed attacking but they did nothing of the sort today – not because of any system or managerial influence, but because they didn't step up, at all.
Tony Hill
149 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:39:53
Peter (#146), I have read what you say. Unfortunately, it's irrelevant to the point that I'm making.
Jamie Crowley
150 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:41:49
Tony @148 -

And we agree to disagree as I think the system they are in and the manner in which they are asked to play absolutely affects their performances.

Darren Hind
151 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:43:43
No way on this earth did Sam Allardyce inherit a car crash.

We were thirteenth, heading up the table and had just had our biggest win of the season. The players themselves told us this had boosted their confidence.

What Allardyce did inherit was a very kind run of fixtures against three teams we'd have beaten if My arl antie was in charge. He managed to win these games despite our woodwork being twatted as regularly as a blind cobblers thumb.

This team had taken seven points from their previous five games and Sam only needed maintain that rate. Unfortunately Sam has let down those who placed their faith in him, he's already falling behind despite the three gimme's he walked into.

Pug ugly, cowardly attempts to spoil the game against even the poorest opposition should see this guy run out of town.

But still they apologise.

Peter Jansson
152 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:44:11
Our squad is not good either and I don't trust Steve Walsh nose for talent for a second.

About the backroom staff... I have no clue.

Surely the problems run much deeper than Allardyce, but that does not make him a good manager.

Andy Crooks
153 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:51:07
Tony,# 136, you are right, these players deserve scrutiny because their performance stinks. However, Jay (BRZ) made a fair argument on another thread, that we actually do have good players.

What is wrong? If we are bereft of confidence then surely Sam should be instilling it. He is not. We had a new manager bounce that was founded on incredible good fortune. Not, in my view, based on anything that the hapless Sam has done.

Having said that, I accept that he absolutely cannot be sacked. He will get us safe, no doubt. The fact that we could have been safe under a more enlightened coach means nothing now. He is it and the grind to safety will be hard to stomach.

I am looking for a sign, a tiny sign that things are getting better. I, and I expect quite a few doubters, would not be hard to get on board. Just a semblance of a plan, a tiny green shoot. So far there has been not a thing to indicate that our coach is anything other that what some feared; a pointless panic appointment that will set us back years.

Oliver Molloy
154 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:53:53
Jamie @ 137

What exactly happened ?

Don Alexander
155 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:57:04
Results aside, what do Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce have in common? Answer, an inability to get the squad fit and coordinated at Finch Farm. Why is that? I've never noticed other Allardyce teams being physically uncompetitive. I never noticed Leicester under Shakespeare being like that either and Sammy Lee's not known for it. So, are there “coaches” at Finch Farm with an inbred ability to ignore the need to be fit and in shape as a team? I suggest there are, every one of them an ex modest (at best in most cases) player appointed by Kenwright to forever blow smoke up his arse and allow him to don the mantle of good ol' Uncle Bill, the EITC guru.

I'm sick of hearing the "He doesn't get Everton" rant. It's decades out of date and it's just the sort of bollocks loved by charlatans like Kenwright as that bloody awful "And if yer know yer history" tune belts out of the speakers again and again and again. That sort of attitude seriously took root in the Premier League, the League in which we've spectacularly failed for over 25 years now, the only one of the big six to have done so. Cheers Bill.

As Moshiri said, we need to move out of the museum psychology and, by inference, get into the real world. Sad thing is, he seems to be totally inept at reading the compass to the promised land.

John Boon
156 Posted 20/01/2018 at 20:57:41
Just watched the Man City vs Newcastle Utd game. I know they lost to the RS, but they are so far ahead of every other team that it isn't even worth making any comparisons.

However it shows what is right and wrong about football in 2018. Right in that they are a treat to watch, particularly after watching Everton today.

Wrong in that they have paid enormous amounts for every single player. Do they ever have any home grown players? Even their British players cost a mint.

Yes, I am envious, because we have also paid out large amounts for very questionable talents. However, if this is the game today then we will also have to pay ridiculous fees for players. The problem is that they seem to have scouts who know who to buy. More important, they have a manager who knows how to get the best out of each individual player and to fuse them together as a team.

Over the next two weeks, please Seamus and Leighton somehow get fit enough to play again very soon. Baines, even at his age, is far better than anything we have. And Sam, we do have midfielders who can actually move forward and attack. One of them is not Schneiderlin. Both Davies and Gana do know how to give energy to the team. We still need Rooney. He added something to today's game.

As it stands, we are very lucky that all the teams below have far less funds than we do. As a team, we seem to be so desperate, nervous and even unmotivated. But to every player to put on a Blue shirt, remember us supporters are far more nervous than you and we don't get paid to watch our millionaires.

Peter Cummings
157 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:00:05
Every Premier League game was shown live today on Canadian sports channels except ours, which we could only get on EFC radio.

No need to wonder why, we are obviously not worth the effort, even the first half was definitely even worth listening to as we struggled to be as bad as we were v Spurs, but 'Glory Be' we not only put a shot on target, we actually scored,

Obviously the tragic injury to Mac was a downer for the rest of the game where we continued to be second best until the end, as only poor WBA finishing , our goalie, and the woodwork, saved our bacon, WE CAN ONLY GET BETTER (can't we)?????

Tony Hill
158 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:02:05
Andy (#153), none of my posts above was intended as a defence of Allardyce. He will pay the price, and rightly so, if we continue to be as dire as we were today. My concern is that if Everton is ever again to become a serious competitive club (very much in doubt, sadly) then we have to build a team with players who are not beaten before they get on the pitch or as soon as they face a challenge on it.

Allardyce is the latest custodian of our mediocrity and, apart from a few flashes down recent decades, he is merely continuing a sorry tradition. How do we get beyond that? Not just by launching the manager every time. I have no idea who, or what, our salvation (if we are to be saved) might be. Some on here seem to be confident that he's out there. Somewhere.

Dave Abrahams
159 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:02:28
Peter (118 &128), in those two posts you said Rooney and Gueye are the best midfield pairing at the club. Well, Gueye brings a lot of energy to the team and wins a lot of tackles and interceptions but gives the ball away a lot, but he isn't too bad.

Rooney had a hand in the goal today and did a few passes that most, nearly every professional player could manage without thinking; but, apart from that pass, did he do anything above average? He gave the ball away a lot (again), was caught in possession (again), not aware of opponents pressing him (again), brushed off the ball too easily, and gave the ball away for a WBA player to go right through and hit the bar in the last few minutes. He was every bit as bad as the rest of the team.

When Rooney plays again, it should be up front where he can do the least damage to the team, he is well over the top and also the highest paid player at the club.

Lawrence Green
160 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:11:01
Blaming Allardyce and his system is justified but the troubles within the squad/team run far deeper than the manager or his staff.

Since Moshiri came on board, the club have thrown money at players both in terms of transfer fees and wages, and the evidence of that practice was there for all to see today and on so many other occasions this past few years.

I used to think that it was sulky Lukaku or miserable Mirallas that were the root cause of disharmony among the players, but they have gone and nothing has markedly improved. I have trouble remembering an Everton squad/team with such low team spirit as the current one possesses.

Each and every week it seems that the starting eleven take to the pitch as individuals with little or no appreciation of their fellow team-mates. No obvious partnerships in any area of the pitch, no links between the defence, midfield and attack. I see few players who are prepared to play give and go football, it's more akin to here you have the ball and you do something with it. There are few runners within the side and a couple of showboating players who forget they are part of a team and prefer to hog the ball rather than deliver it accurately and early to the strikers. In short they are as far away from being a team as it's possible to get and very few of them appear to be bothered about the club's league position or the horrible shapeless non-collective that they have become.

A point was more than the team deserved today but the fans deserve very much more from their team, and somebody at the club, whether it be manager, owner or kit-man should remind those highly paid millionaires that Goodison isn't a retirement home for the feckless and faint-hearted it is every bit a sporting theatre as any other stadium in the world and it should be a privilege to display your skills there and not an inconvenient chore.

Raymond Fox
161 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:26:26
So it's "Get another manager and things will be better..." AGAIN!

How is it every manager we have is no good? Oh, and we want to see winning attractive football as well. Simple ain't it.

We have been crying out for a creative midfielder for years now, yes we have bought plenty of midfielders but none of them are even close to being good enough. Until we do we will struggle.

Sam still hasn't a clue what our best team is because as individuals they show little talent each time their brought into the team or asked to play in a different role.

The only consistent player in this bunch is Niasse, he scores every time he gets to play, but then again he's rated rubbish by the majority on TW, so he must be!

Andy Meighan
162 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:33:53
Jim (#87), Wish I'd have thought of that... Brilliant!
Nigel Munford
163 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:41:39
Raymond I didn't think any manager could get this bunch of misfits firing in all cylinders. What's that now, three managers in 4.5 seasons, it can't all be down to the managers.
Paul A Smith
164 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:41:56
Brent (#116), I am glad you saw that Schneiderlin jump. I asked the lads after the game if they saw it. I couldn't believe my eyes.
Brent Stephens
165 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:45:41
Paul, I hope Sam saw it as well.
Michael Williams
166 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:51:28
Pulled out some players minutes per goal from BBC (partial list). What would his numbers be if he took penalties like some of the other on this list? They would be insanely good.

Kane 93 Minutes per goal (MPG)
Salah 94 MPG
Aguero 95 MPG
Oumar Niasse 98 MPG
Sterling 119 MPG
Martial 121 MPG
Jesus 127 MPG
Rooney 147 MPG
Morata 152 MPG
Lingard 155 MPG
Firmino 161 MPG
Hazard 168 MPG
Sanchez 215 MPG
Sane 221 MPG


John Charles
167 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:57:27
The malaise at the club is definitely not all down to Fat Sam. But surely no-one can argue that he is making the situation better or believes he will do more than help us stay up. (I personally believe we would have stayed up with Unsy anyway.)

There are posters on here who seem to suggest it is wrong to want to see attacking incentive football as the team is shit and Sam has got to be negative and boring. Why? It's not working anyway.

It speaks volumes when the crowd actually cheers (ironically but loudly) when we have a shot on target.

Michael Williams
168 Posted 20/01/2018 at 21:58:59
I could not edit my post at #166 – That post is about Niasse's minutes per goal – fourth in the league.

By all means let's get rid of Niasse. After all he's "deadwood," "can't control the ball", and "he's not a football player". Hopefully recoup "close to what we paid for him". Comments like those make me very thankful for representative democracy as opposed to direct.

Tony Williams
169 Posted 20/01/2018 at 22:01:05
Andy Crooks (106). My sentiments entirely. I will never accept him.
Gavin Johnson
170 Posted 20/01/2018 at 22:01:15
Theo Walcott looked useful and had a good debut.

I still maintain it's like starting with 10 men with Cuco Martina in the side. If we don't bring in a left-back this window, Steve Walsh wants shooting. It will be incompetency that matches the striker debacle in the summer.

I've got nothing else to say about that performance and can't be arsed to critique it. Everton are wearing me down this season.

Tom Bowers
171 Posted 20/01/2018 at 22:09:31
We have to wait a few more games to see if Tosun and Theo can perform a double act but even if they do what about the rest behind them. They need a supply line and players who can create like Rooney.

They also need some speed of thought to make the plays quickly instead of the slow methodical, predicable build up.

The current crop behind the forwards just don't seem to have what it takes and that includes Gana, Gylfi and Vlasic. They have tried Davies and Baningime also but without much success.

Coming out the blocks slow and conceding first has become a bad habit because once the other team gets the lead Everton are the least equipped to turn things around.

We all know the defence is weak but Sam seems unconcerned as he keeps selecting the same starting under-achievers.

Today's bad news of Macca is terrible and makes all of us wish the season was over.

John McFarlane
172 Posted 20/01/2018 at 22:13:58
Now in my 80th year, I can still recall my playing days as a schoolboy, youth, and adult, and I'll be the first to admit that I was never more than enthusiastic, but I like to believe I played for the love of the game, and for personal pride.

I also believe that life as professional footballer is far removed from that of the Sunday league experiences, I imagine having to board coach at 8 o'clock in the morning to travel to Newcastle or London, when you're not in the mood for it, but you have to do it because it's your day job, is not the best preparation.

I believe we tend to view professional football through the eyes of amateurs, but what I can't understand is how any player, amateur or professional, gives less than 100% effort, for personal pride [if nothing else].

But as I say, it's only their day job, and they've long since forgotten the enjoyment that football can provide for the less fortunate, who have to struggle on, in their more mundane lives. The professional footballer just has to grin and bear it, on their pittance of a wage.

But guess what, I'll be there a week on Wednesday, hoping for a show of effort, enjoyment, and personal pride.

Joe Duffin
173 Posted 20/01/2018 at 22:32:20
I know its been said before by many of comments but Williams an Everton player, never mind a professional footballer never mind our Captain.

Rondon bullied him whole game; he actually knew he could give Williams the run around after about 15 mins, and then proceeded to embarrass him whole game.

I hate the see that injury to McCarthy, but him and Schneiderlin were awful – passes astray, mainly sideways and back (even when 40 yards of space in front).

I feel sorry for Holgate and Kenny, neither who excelled – but having Williams and Martina across the pitch for you is a recipe for disaster. You seen it from the start - Pardew knew Martina was beatable and targeted him, in both long balls and also take-ons (any heat map will show majority of attacks from West Brom, or long balls were down that side).

Rooney changed things a bit, but also showed his diminishing pace after losing the ball a few times.

I pity for Tosun if we continue with this formation and style – personally I don't think we have the personnel to continue this way. I spoke briefly to Keane after the game, he said he was fully fit and hopes to get back into starting 11 soon – but managers choice – he can't be any worse than Williams?.

Sigurdsson showed glimpses of why we paid big money for him, good in tight situations and potential to make something happen.

Anyway, utterly frustrating game, but could have been a whole lot worse if for a couple of inches.

Best wishes to James for a full recovery.

Eddy Bernard
174 Posted 20/01/2018 at 23:00:28
When the season ends, make no mistake – the goals of Rooney and Niasse will have kept us from the Championship. Make of that what you will.
Colin Malone
175 Posted 20/01/2018 at 23:06:49
Square pegs in round holes again.

Tom Davies not playing alongside the one holding midfielder. Confidence fucked.

Vlasic, right-sided midfielder / attacker, played on the left. Confidence fucked.
Cuco.... say no more. By the way, Cuco has done the best he can.

You can see, Big Sam is a survivor, he puts the fires out. Flowing football...? He ain't got a clue.


Ernie Baywood
176 Posted 20/01/2018 at 23:29:29
We can put an attacking 4 on the pitch that cost £120M... but give it no opportunity to play.

There's some real pace and threat in that attack but they don't get the ball until teams are back in position. Never an opportunity to receive an early ball and run at teams.

We win the ball in defence, look to the midfield and they look straight back at the defence. The only way the ball goes forward is through the goalkeeper and defence.

That means we've paid £120M for attacking talent, only for it to get its 'supply' from the likes of Holgate, Williams and Pickford. Understandably for them, it's a hoof – the only way we can work the ball forward. Martina looks completely shot of confidence and just won't try to contribute any more. Kenny is the only one trying to do his job.

It's just fucking obvious. Schneiderlin has some ability but he's hiding. He takes the coward's way out every time. Straight back to the centre back or 3 touches and loft it wide. Hardly ever loses the ball but the passes he makes are completely worthless at best. In fact, they hinder our attacking.

Defensively we saw both Holgate and Williams making challenges in midfield that cost us one goal and should have cost two. Why, when we have two defensive midfielders there? I wouldn't pick Schneiderlin under any circumstances.

Rooney in midfield is about all we have. He's prepared to lose the ball and make mistakes in creating something.

Gavin Johnson
177 Posted 20/01/2018 at 23:30:19
Watching Burnley on MotD. They were very unlucky not to get anything against Man Utd. Still, for the life of me, I don't know why Sean Dyche wasn't interviewed for the manager's job. Well, I do actually. He's not the "name" manager Moshiri wants.

Burnley have a great blend of being defensive and dangerous in procession. Come the summer when Allardyce is sacked and Moshiri's continental choices say No, common sense will prevail and we'll get a long-term appointment who knows what he's doing.

Andy Williams
178 Posted 20/01/2018 at 23:44:16
Awful game. The defence proved they can work well together in Fat Sam's first few games – but all of them were poor today. But the midfield – Christ on a bike...

I really don't like the constant slagging of players that I hear at the match and on here but that Number 2 of ours – well never has a player been so appropriately numbered.

We are crying out for a player to link the back and the front. We cannot persist with the rigid 2 CDM formation. I don't know if he is up to it yet but a player like Klaassen!

Robert Jones
179 Posted 20/01/2018 at 23:48:04
Where the fuck are our midfield?! Do we even have one?
Jeff Armstrong
180 Posted 20/01/2018 at 23:52:11
Dave Abrahams, spot on again about Rooney, he is a liability in our half. I heard someone on Radio Merseyside (before pot hole Joe got on) say he should be playing just in front of the back 4 FFS do these people actually watch the game? Rooney would be giving the opposition ball after ball – about 20 yards from our net!

No, leave him on the bench and bring him on up front with 10 minutes to go, where he can do the least damage (to us).

Jeff Armstrong
181 Posted 20/01/2018 at 23:55:49
That Number 2 of ours is stealing from EFC... right in front of everyone's eyes.
James Marshall
182 Posted 20/01/2018 at 00:05:44
I'm pretty sure this is the same pattern as always with Allardyce. He comes in and steadies things, wins some games then his teams drop off. The they pick up again and he keeps them up.

Feel free to correct me but I'm sure I read somewhere that this has happened many times before under hit tutelage.

Gutted for Macca. He was starting to show some of his old marauding form too.

Schneiderlin is shit. Holgate and Kenny are both struggling. We really need a left back and a settled first 11. We seem to play a different 11 every week which I'm not a fan of.

12 points? I reckon we'll be okay also in part because all the teams below us keep beating each other and nobody is putting a run together. That's why we're still 9th.

At least we're not getting hammered every week. Just last week.

Jeff Armstrong
183 Posted 20/01/2018 at 00:08:12
When we all start listing our worst players of all time, you know, the usual suspects like Bernie Wright, Rod Belfitt, Brett Angel, Danny Williamson, Tobias Linderoth, Tony Thomas, Mark Hottiger, that bloke who played full back in a Cup Final against Chelsea...

We are currently watching, and having to put up with, on a weekly basis, 2 members of that future list, Cuco Martina and Morgan Schneiderlin, but we can do nothing about it. Why?

Because Sam Allardyce, Ronald Koeman etc know nothing about our history, but we are witnessing our shit history before our very eyes..These players are not worthy of the shirt; everyone can see it, apart from the manager.

Ian Pilkington
184 Posted 20/01/2018 at 00:25:42
Another totally dire performance today.

Selecting Schneiderlin in preference to Gana was bad enough, but leaving Rooney on the bench, not even including Lookman, yet starting with Vlasic was totally baffling. The Croatian was completely ineffective v Man Utd and isn't good enough to warrant selection as present.

If we sell Niasse and don't buy a new left back by 31 January, I feel like giving up.

John Raftery
185 Posted 20/01/2018 at 00:32:24
Robert (#179),

Our midfield is truly pathetic. They continually pass the buck by taking the easy option of a pass back to one of our defenders, the players least equipped to set up attacking moves. We lack a driving, tackling, passing central midfielder who can move us up the field quickly.

As for the defence there have been many questions on this site as to why Sam had not returned to the pairing of Holgate and Williams. He did that today and it proved to be an utter failure with Williams going AWOL for the goal and both he and Holgate being dragged all over the show.

There have also been questions as to why Vlasic had not featured since the United match when he had a half decent game in a 2-0 defeat. Well, he played today and looked out of his depth. That happens with young players still finding their feet, especially when most around them are struggling with their own game.

There have also been questions from many, including me, as to why Sigurdsson had not been played in his preferred central role. Well, today Sam did exactly that and it proved to be a disaster. I cannot recall a single positive contribution from the Icelander.

We can criticise the manager but the players brought in at huge expense last year are simply not good enough.

Charlie Lloyd
186 Posted 21/01/2018 at 01:12:36
We can bleet all we want about the managers, and that's 3 this season alone, but the players are utter shite.

There are big transfer fees paid and huge weekly wages to players who are not fit to wear the shirt. The players need to either show some evidence they are worth the wages or at least mental resolve. If they can't, just hand their wages to EitC for a good cause.

They are letting everybody down.

Ed Prytherch
187 Posted 21/01/2018 at 01:46:53
It was a brave tackle by McCarthy and I feel sorry for him but he was trying to rescue a crisis that he had just created. I thought that he had an okay first half but he continually gave the ball away between half time and his injury. I wish him well but I don't think that we will miss him on the pitch.

As for the goal we gave away, Holgate must take most of the blame. He had a couple of yards on Rodriguez when the ball was played through but he tried to play him offside, got it wrong and we payed the price. He has a lot to learn.

It looks like Sam does not rate Niasse, probably because he is not controllable, but he has become a super-sub and we should keep him for that roll.

Our goal was nice. Great ball in from Wayne, good cushioned header from Theo and Oumar doing his party trick.

Martina is probably doing his best but he is out of his depth. We must do something about left back. Baines was not all that good before he was injured. We don't just need cover for him, we need a replacement.

David Israel
188 Posted 20/01/2018 at 01:55:24
For those of you saying they would take Martinez back tomorrow, here's a simple reminder: he inherited a very organised and confident team. He would now receive a disorganised and demoralised one. I'm not sure he would be a success.
John Pierce
189 Posted 21/01/2018 at 02:17:47
As I grasp at any passing straw to look at any way to salve my angry brow, could the transfer of Sanchez be a silver lining?

Might this impact Juan Mata's place in the United side? Maybe I'm just hoping a bid from Everton might be worth it?

Peter Jansson
190 Posted 21/01/2018 at 02:20:54
I was not a huge fan of Moyes as I think he was too negative, putting the offensive players on the bench and so forth. I remember one season we started winning when we got so many injuries that he actually had to play the good players like Leon Osman and Distin.

Despite his weaknesses, Moyes at least produced stability. I hardly remember what that means today.

Peter Jansson
191 Posted 21/01/2018 at 02:23:58
Maybe we should go for Lindeløv at Man Utd. Does not seem to fit there, he is young, can tackle, can defend and can pass a ball. Way better than anything we have.

Steavey Buckley
192 Posted 21/01/2018 at 02:30:23
Everton fans will have to accept that their team, whoever is picked, is dysfunctional. This happened because the wrong players were bought without considering if they would benefit the team.

The classic example is Klaassen ,bought for shedloads of money when Everton are weak in other positions such as left-sided centre-half, left-back, left-winger and centre-forward. These weaknesses are causing Everton to lose points most games.

Will this be corrected? No. Not this season.

George Stuart
193 Posted 21/01/2018 at 05:03:55
Anyone else think that, despite the appalling rubbish, oh well, at least it's a point?

God! It's been a consistent element of my 59-year support to ask "How did they play?" as a pointer to the future.

Now all I care about is the next point. I still feel the players are average... just unbalanced, poorly directed and not up for it. Fix it, Sam.

Hugh Jenkins
194 Posted 21/01/2018 at 07:31:17
It strikes me that what we have assembled, over the last few seasons , but particularly in the summer transfer window, is a collection of good players, but not a team.

It seems that Walsh and Koeman had the typical "kids in a sweet shop" approach to the money made available for transfers.

Instead of trying to acquire players that complimented those we already had with those being bought, they just bought up anyone that "took their fancy".

Instead of trying to address the obvious shortcomings in some positions they just bought up anyone that "took their fancy" ( the repeated phrase is deliberate).

What that indicates is that, as a club, other than at youth level, we lack an overall cohesive plan.

Love or hate Moyes, he often said that when considering an acquisition, he didn't just consider the playing skills, but also the personality etc. how that player would fit into the changing room, how he would adapt to the "Everton way", etc.

Would the player "balance the team"?

In short, everything that seems to have been lacking in every manager we have had since.

Many on here call Moyes dour and dithering, but I think the dithering was because he had to be very careful with what little money he had available throughout his tenure and the "dour" approach was necessary because that was all he could do with the personnel he inherited, or could afford to buy.

Even then, I recall that at times we had good quality free flowing football and when I look at the gems he did pick up, like Cahill, Arteta, Yobo etc. he did have an eye for a player.

Granted, I wasn't impressed when he ran down his contract and left us, (he could have signed just so we got the compensation), but he now seems to be doing a good job at West Ham and I, for one, would really like to have seen what he might have achieved with the money now available to us.

BTW, his "knife to a gunfight" quote was, of course accurate and that again, was something that might have been addresses with more money, but even today, we can't compete with the truly "rich" clubs (except in terms of history).

We need to get back there, soon, before we become another Huddersfield.

Jeff Spiers
195 Posted 21/01/2018 at 08:06:53
Some posts seem to suggest we are safe from the drop! Come on, guys – we are not. Can you see these players doing it?
Ralph Basnett
196 Posted 21/01/2018 at 08:36:50
I go to all games, have a moan Saturday evening, and then watch again on Sky Sunday morning to analyse properly – then have another moan!!!

Everything I moaned about on Saturday evening was still there to be seen in the clear light of day on Sunday morning but the one extra thing I picked up on at the end of the game is that the camera zoomed into Sam as he walked away to Pardew to shake his hand, Sam had the biggest smile on his face as if it where two men off for a pint – and Duncan Ferguson looking at Sam fuming (presume for the jovial way Fat Sam was heading towards Pardew).

Seems to me that, if Sam can't be seen to be hurting for such an inept performance from the wrong squad he chose, then how can anyone expect a man that gets £20k-plus a week to be arsed?

Jamie Evans
197 Posted 21/01/2018 at 09:19:07
Oliver (#154), while McCarthy was rolling around in agony and players from both sides were clearly distressed, Jagielka stopped his warm up to see what had happened. At this point, some Neanderthal in the crowd started with the usual really helpful advice about how shite we are and that how Jagielka should "get a grip."

I'm not sure how our captain could have affected things from the sidelines to be honest, but anyway, Jagielka turned around and politely but firmly put this gentleman in his place.

Ian Riley
198 Posted 21/01/2018 at 09:56:15
This has been coming over the past three years. Yes, the manager's approach, tactics, and interviews are leading us to the nearest exit but we have been shit for years. Let's face it, we need another £200 million spent to get close to the top five and five hundred million to get into the top four.

It's the hope that keeps us going to matches paying thousands over the years. Realistically, the premiership is boring based on we could write down the top four for the next five seasons and the previous ten years or more, the top four have been the same. Only on the odd occasion another club has got there but can't sustain it. The cups are now becoming as in important to the top teams as the league is.

What for Everton? New ground, new owner pouring money in. The so called bigger clubs have champions league, bigger stadiums, world class players and managers. Everton need to start again. Do we get rid of Sam in the summer and go for a younger manager? Silva from Watford? Or does Sam deserve a full pre-season? Personally I think Sam has inherited an imbalanced and squad lacking quality.

Overall Everton is not a quick fix. It will take a few years to get right. I have waited many years so a few more won't matter. Sorry for the negative points but as one gets older the more realistic expectations I have. Sunday morning moan over. Going to build a snowman.

Take care all!

John Charles
199 Posted 21/01/2018 at 09:57:07
If only Captain Jags would politely but firmly tell the manager or players that what we are producing is absolute shite. But no – we come out with the same platitudes every week.

'Club captain' – what does that mean? Having a go at supporters, no matter how Neanderthal, who vent their spleen at having to pay hard-earned money to watch this negative, boring drivel.

If the comments were in anyway about McCarthy, then well done, Jags; if not, grow a pair and politely but firmly speak to those who are responsible for this mess.

Anthony Flack
200 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:02:18
I had the misfortune to go to the match yesterday – of course on balance, glad I did, even with the round trip and Virgin trains running an hour late out of Crewe.

It was of course terrible to watch – one of the worst performances I can remember. My view is it is down to four things

1) The essence of a good team is all the components of it playing well together, it is a system and when one part of the system is ineffective it impacts the whole system.

2) The absence of a left back, the absence of talent (Williams) and the absence of confidence (Kenny and Holgate) results in the movement of the ball from back to front being too ponderous.

3) Schneiderlin is finished, he really is rubbish. I heard someone suggest on the radio that he out in a good shift. My mind boggled at what bad looks like... He was weak, he was slow, his thought processes are slow by not moving into space and forcing others to pass backwards, he is arrogant, ie, waving his arms around when people do not pass to him (as they cannot see him as he has not moved) – when he had the ball he passed it to West Brom or back to a player under more pressure that him. Worst for me he bottled it in the first half, pulling out of a challenge that's might have ended in a collision. His ineptitude adds to the pressure on the defence.

4) Given the problem at left back and the lack of an outlet through midfield, the likes of Kenny and Holgate struggled, in a Sunday league team where one might field the odd 100-kg 40-plus player, the good players tend not to pass to them – as it is not safe, our good players feel the same about the left back, Williams and Schneiderlin

5) the net effect of rubbish players, lack of confidence, no outlet, and the ponderous pace we move forward, is that the good players do not get the ball quickly enough or in space, they tend to receive the ball with their back to goal and with 2 or 3 defenders in close proximity, and either give it away or pass it back, slowing everything down

6) Tosun, Sigurdsson and Walcott are all good players – but cannot be effective in this failing system

I am not a fan of Big Sam, but I do think he describes what he has seen as he sees it and largely I agree. I am not sure he knows how to lift it, and some of the selections appear baffling. His teams have always been fast and with fight – neither of these things seem evident at Everton.

I would

1. Boot Schneiderlin out.

2. Obviously get.a left back, even a 100-kg plus 40-year-old, but one with a left foot

3. I would establish a stable pairing at centre back, of Keane and Holgate.

4. I would ensure that the players in the centre are happy to receive the ball, without involuntarily filling their shorts if.an opponent approaches, maybe Gana and Davies – but critically able to move forward a few yards at pace.

5. I would properly blood Lookman – let's see how he goes.

6. Tosun, Walcott, Sigurdsson and Rooney all need to be accommodated – I would be tempted and this may get a laugh to put Rooney on the left of midfield.

I am not saying we would win every game, but I am sure we would get at least the same number of points that the dire stuff we watched yesterday. The hesitancy at the back may be resolved, we would have a left back, we would have.a system that moves the ball forward with some pace.

I am worried by the end of the season if we do not change, we will have spent 𧴰m plus on 4 players, but ruined their careers at Everton.

Björn Kausemann
201 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:11:08
Awful games since Big Sam was appointed. I wrote here before that he is the wrong manager, only being able to avoid the relegation with his clubs.

Sack him, and Walsh too. Spending such a lot of money for players they are never worth. £45 Mil for Sigurdsson is a joke.

And spending about £25 Mil for Tosun who was not good enough for playing in Bundesliga 2 (like the Championship) in Germany and went to the Turkish League which has a low level, is stupid. Our biggest problem is our midfield where no chances are created.

Andy Williams
202 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:14:03
Anthony (#200). What you are proposing is too sensible to be taken into consideration.
Clive Rogers
203 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:27:28
The club has to look at its transfer policy after yesterday.

Sigurdsson was played in centre-mid, where many have been demanding, and was terrible.

Tosun looked nowhere near a Premier League player. Another bad buy?

Jon Withey
204 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:50:29
Difficult to know what to make of this selection of players who were each decent in their previous environment but don't seem to gel in the current one.

I always felt the coaching was missing completely under Koeman, like it wasn't really happening. Moyes coached them to be difficult to beat and found some avenues for attack. Martinez seemed to coach the team well at the passing game but we ended up a shambles at the back.

Has the Allardyce team really had much of a chance to coach them? Evidence is mixed and the confidence is still missing – they are all playing with nerves and their natural games seem to have evaporated.

Clive Rogers
205 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:02:56
If only we had a chairman who knew what he was doing.
Paul Kelly
206 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:16:59
Anthony Flack,

“2. Obviously get a left-back, even a 100-kg plus 40-year-old, but one with a left foot”

Are we flexible on the weight limit? If so, I'll offer my services. Can use either foot, sorted.

Oliver Molloy
207 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:20:41
Thanks Jamie
Dave Williams
208 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:49:41
Anthony (#200) some good points there and we could do a lot worse than follow them!

I posted a couple of weeks ago that I think the problems revolve around LB and I am not knocking Martina who does his best.

Get Danny Rose and we not only sort out LB but also give ourselves the chance of sorting left midfield as we then have a strong player behind and could afford to give Lookman a run.

Yesterday illustrated yet again how we need a physically strong midfield enforcer. God knows what has happened to Morgan whether it is confidence, personal issues but he passes back and turns towards his own goal and therefore stalls forward movement and space is closed down. Nzonzi or similar is required. Only when these problems are fixed can we hope to see just what we have bought in Tosun.

Steven Jones
209 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:16:42
Anthony (#200) – Spot on.

I believe that Williams, Schneiderlin and Martina need to be out of the first 11 and the club. Also, Jagielka looks on his way at 36 too.

However, we need stability and Allardyce and his team need to bed down the two new signings, find a pattern of play and drill them. Once they do, it will still take time.

Even the great Pep with all the talent, got hammered 4-0 last season at Goodison.

Sam Allardyce needs time and we need stability.

Hopefully we can clear out some dead wood this window – the likes of Besic and usual candidates; we get Coleman back and Theo bedded in partnering him, with Bolasie fit by mid February on the left and Baines or a new left-back bedded in with Holgate and Keane in central defence.

All the young talent dropped in here and there to help them develop.

Unfortunately stability needs patience and persistence and we should get behind Sam Allardyce and the coaching staff and the players till this has happened. Quick fixes there are not!

Les Martin
210 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:48:21
The worst performance I can remember and I have been coming since the 70s, there was nothing apart from some Pickford saves and the poached Niasse goal that is worth a mention.

There was no movement or options for the player in possession and no willingness to hunt in packs to get the ball back, West Brom were fare better because they worked harder.

Moyes will be back, mark my words and get you money on now whether you fancy that or not.

Andy Meighan
211 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:15:18
Dave (#213),

Get Danny Rose? Are you being serious?? Why would Rose leave a side that's still in the Champions League and who play bright attacking football and are in the top 5 to come and join this shite???

He'd want his marbles felt... No – and I mean no player from any top 5 squad would join us.

Hywel Owen
212 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:30:07
Has anyone else noticed but Everton seem to be second to every loose ball and this is not a matter of the game not going for you as it has been the same all season. Do we not have instinctive players and game readers anymore or has that been abolished at Finch Farm.

Also for the first time ever, to my knowledge, a "top class" club blames another club for the fact that their manager cannot manage and their players cannot play. I am not a person who uses bad language but I am sorely tempted!!

Paul Smith
213 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:40:36
Brilliant! "This club is in limbo, and in trouble. The atmosphere in Goodison yesterday was as bad as I have seen. Angry, sarcastic, depressed, not arsed. The hit it up in the air and hope football is killing this club"

Succinct, clear and correct. Get Silva in and Walsh out. Do it today!

Colin Malone
214 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:01:19
Schneiderlin, McCarthy and Gueye would get in most Premier League sides that play with one holding midfielder. Retrievers who then give the ball to a playmaker, not another holding midfielder, who has not got the guile or movement to drive forward as an Arteta, so therefore the front players are starved of the football.

So we resort to Big Sam's hoofball or we play Davies next to a holding midfielder. Maybe bring Joe Williams back from Barnsley.

David Pearl
215 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:19:26
The atmosphere has been awful Paul since the second season of Martinez. The Atalanta game was as bad an atmosphere as I've ever known. Made even more bizarre sat in amongst both German and Italian fans.

Pickford kicks too much. Though when we try to play out from the back it's met with groans. Non of our current back 4 are any good. I'd say Williams isn't half as bad is as made out.

We need Rooney to play deeper I'd say so he can put his foot on the ball and look for the right pass. No use having Walcott or Tosun or even Niasse if we can find them. Niasse looked good when he came on.

David Israel
216 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:36:59
Björn #201, 'Awful games since Big Sam was appointed.'.

Yes, a pity, isn't it? Especially as we were setting the world alight with our very own brand of total (rubbish) football before he came over.

As for Sam only knowing how to avoid relegation (and I'm not about to use the qualifier 'even though I'm not an Allardyce fan', as it would sound as though I was apologising for expressing an opinion), just ask any Bolton fan if finishing 5th or 6th was all about avoiding relegation.

Brian Porter
217 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:58:48
Eddie #174. You are right. Rooney and Niasse's goals are all that are keeping us from falling into the Championship.

Niasse is actually scoring a goal every 99 minutes of game time, a terrific strike record in this team, but if Allardyce is allowed to sell him, our second top scorer, and is still our manager at the end of the season, I will be giving up after 60 years of supporting Everton and will switch my allegiance to Southport.

Thomas Rigby
218 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:06:41
I left Goodison Park with an overwhelming feeling of embarrassment after the West Brom game. Partly because we did not deserve a draw and partly because the quality of football is pathetic.

It is difficult to recall any moments of flowing football, there is no quality passing (apart from Rooney) and too many of them appear to be simply not good enough or lack any kind of motivation.

Relegation is back on the agenda. The Leicester game is a must win-one now; if we lose, we need to get something away at Arsenal. Is that likely? Today, we are 7 points away from a relegation place so I am afraid to imagine what the table will look like after the Arsenal match.

I know this might sound alarmist but if they cannot control a game against West Brom at home, and play in such an abject manner, what on earth is there to suggest any improvement in results against far better teams?

The trouble is that so many have had a chance to lay a claim for a permanent position in the side and almost no-one has managed to convince they are good enough. Pickford certainly... and, although he is a shadow of his former self, Rooney playing in a deeper role.

Rooney brought a semblance of order when he came on – apart from creating the equaliser, he was helping others with advice and in particular kept offering to take the ball from Martina. On top of that, he looks as though he cares about the situation we are in... Compare to Schneiderlin who pulled out of two tackles today and was too slow to the ball on countless occasions.

And underlying all this is the question of management. Are the powers that be committed to him long-term?Are they going to let him spend more in this window? If they are, does that mean we are committed long term to Allardyce's way of playing?

It might very well be that Allardyce can create a hard-working functional and relatively successful team. But it won't be a School of Science philosophy of how to play the game.

Consider pass-and-move football to achieve that from where we are now would mean having to literally start building a new team. Yes, another 3-year project. That is Koeman's and Walsh's legacy.

John McFarlane
220 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:28:16
Hi Thomas [223], how many times do you think our opponents over the years, have left Goodison with an overwhelming feeling of embarrassment?

My feeling was one of intense disappointment at the level of performance, tempered by a degree of relief, that it was another point in our fight to retain our top flight existence.

As long as football has been played, there have been instances of teams getting more than they deserve, and it's not a cause for embarrassment, it's a case of taking the rough with the smooth.

You can bet that it will happen in reverse many times in the future.

Paul A Smith
221 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:32:53
Talking about the team is becoming pointless. All it does is divide fans and cause bickering. It's what we have been left with, it's what we have been reduced to.

The bigger picture is what causes the horror shows.

Colin Malone
222 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:10:55
Can someone please explain why you would play two defensive midfielders, never mind Everton but any Premier League team? At the cost of an advancing midfielder?
Mike Oates
223 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:27:00
We've got problems everywhere in the team, not one area is working at 50% of its ability.

We knew we were toothless up front and the return of Bolasie (though I'm still not 100% sure about him) and the introduction of Tosun and Walcott should in time bear some fruit, but it will take time, possibly 6-12 months before we get an attacking unit we need.

In midfield, we should have enough decent footballers to get us solid, and with some creativity help the attackers out – we've got Davies, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Gueye, Rooney, Klaassen, Vlasic, Baningime. Not great but it shouldn't be the disaster it is at the moment, all are petrified to open up play and try something.

At the back – its the area I think we are so limited and its the area that is the root cause of our problems. Kenny, Holgate, Keane, Jagielka, Williams. Martina are accidents just waiting to happen. No matter who he plays, where he plays them, they are just not good enough at all, all of them – they cannot handle even the most moderate of attackers.

They lose their players at corners, lose them in open play (Holgate yesterday had a mare when Rondon came over to his side.) Kenny either backs off and backs off and finally ends up 10 yards inside his own area inviting trouble or just jumps in and gets turned so easily. Williams must be colour blind, he must be, can never find a blue shirt with a pass . The less said about Martina the better, though like Niasse its just not his fault the way he's been treated.

Any manager, whether its Sam or whoever next if he gets the push at season's end would struggle to stop that defence leaking 2-3 goals a game.

Sorry, Mr Moshiri, but you are going to have to find another 𧶲m just on a decent set of 4-5 new defenders, before you have to start spending big monies on midfield and the attack . It's a complete shambles, the rot started with Martinez's lack of defensive awareness and has just carried on ever since with Koeman, and now Allardyce sees all the problems before him.

I suspect he'll keep us up, just (and I mean 'just'} and he'll walk away with a fat bonus as he'll realise Moshiri's vision is impossible to attain for at least 6-8 years.

Martin Nicholls
224 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:02:47
You guys have said it all about yesterday's performance.

In the past, a number of ToffeeWebbers have inferred that they have detailed knowledge of the content of certain player's contracts. In particular, a number have claimed with a degree of false authority that it is in Rooney's contract that he starts every home game.

Yesterday's team selection gives the lie to these claims and I hope puts an end to these ridiculous claims of insider knowledge.

George Cumiskey
225 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:27:58
Why oh why is Allàrdyce getting a free ride over the state of the club?

He comes on the television telling everyone what's wrong with the players and what needs to be done. Then plays the same under achieving players and the same totally unambitious system as the last match.

Then all the apologists come on and say how honest big Sam is for telling it how it is, it beggars belief.

Paul Kelly
226 Posted 22/01/2018 at 09:13:59
A few comments I heard summed us up vs West Brom:

My daughter asking “Why are our players hugging each other when the other team are warming up doing drills?”

my lad shaking his head in disbelief stating “Jesus, they can't even do the basics!!!!” (half way through the first half).

and a stranger stating to his mate walking out the ground “going the match shouldn't feel like a chore.”

Yep, I couldn't've put it better.

Colin Malone
227 Posted 22/01/2018 at 11:21:46
Allardyce. Start looking at yourself and stop blaming the players.

James McCarthy would get in any top side as an holding midfielder. Where did you play him Sam? As the advancing midfielder, he was like a fish out of water.

Where was Tom Davies, who has been getting criticism, why? Because he has Davies playing out of position. Does big Sam believe or know how to play through the midfield? No.

I'm scared he will sell Davies in this window. Sam's way is not the School of Science, that's for sure.

Anthony Hawkins
228 Posted 22/01/2018 at 12:29:36
@George #225 – Sam has a teflon coating until the summer as it's deemed (rightly or wrongly) that he's sorting the mess he didn't create.

He has to be partially responsible from January window onwards.

Going back to the McCarthy injury. McCarthy lost the ball and the passion to get it back is what the rest of the squad needs to learn from But what really get's me is how far he's run to win the ball back. Why is he the only player trying to get the ball back? Where were the rest of the midfield and defense? A forward thinking defender would have seen that and could have closed him down without coming in from behind/the side.

It's a massively unfortunate injury and disappointing but I'm convinced the injury is synonymous with how the team in general is playing. Far too little effort from anyone else.

Paul Kelly
229 Posted 22/01/2018 at 18:26:10
Think it was Schneiderlin who lost the ball by letting it running through his legs, dummy, him, not the manoeuvre.
Paul A Smith
230 Posted 23/01/2018 at 10:23:27
Colin (#227), how can you criticise the manager and suggest McCarthy could hold for any top team?

One of our biggest problems that holds us back is fans like yourself rating average players. A Duracell bunny at best.

I bet you thought Schneiderlin was class too, didn't you?

Colin Malone
231 Posted 23/01/2018 at 13:11:33
Paul (#230),

A blind man can see that McCarthy, Schneiderlin, Gueye cannot play together. I believe if McCarthy or Schneiderlin went to Arsenal, they would play as a one, retrieve the ball and pass it to an advancing midfielder, ie, Fernandino to De Bruyne. Kante to Willian. Dier to Dembele. Gueye to Barkley.

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