Klaassen to miss Chelsea trip

On another thread, I posted that Rooney needs to be rested- but with the injuries now, no way! The team will probably be:

Pickford
Holgate Keane Jags Baines
Davis Besic Siggy
Mirallas Rooney DCL

Subs: Stek, Martina, Kenny, Williams, Lookman, Lennon, ??

The bench looks pathetic. Damage limitation game IMO, we will be lucky to come away with a 2-0 or 3-0. Never been so pessimistic about a game before.

I am confident the lad will have learned a valuable lesson there, remember too Ajay, Chelski have not been setting the world on fire yet, good time to play them, as with City.

There should be competition for places anyway, but with suspensions and injuries, this will be a good test, looking forward to it!

Or will he keep a flat back four and rotate for example Jags for Williams and Holgate for Martina?

As for the injuries, this is why there is duplication and more quantity, as well as quality, added to the squad. As cover, but also, greater competition.

To be selected and stay in the first XI this season you need to perform to a high standard, or others will take your place. Tough on the injured players, but a chance for someone to step up and make themselves undroppable.

Seems to be his default formation, at least to start most games and will match Chelseas set up. Similar to City team, with Besic or Gueye in for Schneiderlin, Davies, Rooney and Sigurdsson supporting DCL.

Another challenge for sure, but are they better than City? Missing Hazard , Cahill and maybe Pedro.

Good game, but from an Everton point of view maybe not so pretty again.

Or

Holgate Jags Keane Baines Davies Besic Siggy Mirallas Rooney lewin 4-3-2-1

We will see a performance that may well echo the first half against Man City, let's hope we don't see one that echoes the second!

In all fairness, we will need to keep it tight and I don't expect much more than Kitap1 style display. Plus I can't see Sigurdsson lasting too long in this one following his lack of pre-season so he'll have to score another 45-yard pearler before he's subbed.

"We'll now have too many of this sort, and also too many of that kind! And who will this one replace to get a spot in the first team? Oh 'moan', oh 'mumble woefully'..."

Third round of the PL not started yet, and we've played 2 PL games and 4 Euro games. 6 more Europa League games before Christmas, and what if we make it past the first hurdle in both domestic cups?

TW'ers will be ecstatic with misery! :D

The following is a link to the news story, NOT the link you need to use to view the match. 7pm KO, according to the club site.

Link

Here's the link to the live broadcast of the game.

Link

Still image showing at the moment, but be patient and when the game gets underway these things usually start rolling.

My feed was a bit jumpy, but it's a great stream now.

Here's the link again:

Link

After winning the PL2 last year, there's one thing we can sure of: All the other teams will want Everton U23's scalp, so these matches should show us a lot about our new hopefuls!

Niasse starts for us (double eek!).

Gray, Jones, Foulds, Baningime, Feeney, Connolly, Charsley, Evans, Walsh, Sambou, Niasse.

Gray, Jones, Foulds, Baningime, Feeney, Connolly, Charsley, Evans, Walsh, Sambou, Niasse.

Koeman will go seven at the back against Chelsea (eight if you include Pickford).... that's the only way he knows , forget DM's or full backs crossing the half-way line, it ain't happening

How do I know? same way I know tomorrow's Saturday.

First, crisp pass to Charsley on the right flank before taking the return pass and hitting a wicked 1st time cross into the danger area, causing the retreating Chelsea defender to score an oggie.

Liam is skipper, BTW.

Unless he takes a chance and goes with two forwards, in which case it will
be 7-1-2 😁

Did Everton fully fulfill your expectations and predictions for the first six competitive games this season? Have we done a lot worse than our competition?

We've allegedly had money available for around a year and a half now, how much did Man C's money gain them for the first year, or two?

Sean Dyche proved what can happen if you go at them at Stamford Bridge... Let's see if Koeman has learned anything at all after being taken to school on his last visit.

Still 1-0 to the good at half time, but the home side certainly had the better of it after we took the lead.

Hazard growing into the game and showing his class compared to anyone else on the pitch, but the defence is holding firm and Gray the keeper made a great safe from a crunching downward header.

We were lucky the ref didn't award a clear pen against Feeney who brought down Hazard following a mazy run.

I expected them to beat third-rate opposition in the opening qualifiers, I expected the to beat second rate opposition in the next stage. At half time against Ma City I expected us to try to shut up shop against ten men and I expected to become embroiled in a war of attrition against Stoke...

I also expected our football to be unadventurous and Joyless

So all in all Yep, No surprises. for me – although a couple of individuals have torn up the safety first manual and pleasantly surprised me. A bit like last season really

All in all, a good first half! Especially as so many of those I watched with the U23's last season are now on loan elsewhere!

Different approach/outlook, same result, then!

I know the factual dispositions of RK might seem very dour, but I still remember him saying that he did not want us to go to Split to just defend our home result. He wanted more! And if the sight of him continually trying to force his players wide during the second half, does not show his intent, what can? The players hunkered down, he didn't!

He, has at every turn looked to hang in games and nick one.

Many use a lack of personnel last season, a 'means to an end' argument to excuse performances at Burnley, Bournemouth, Middlesboro & Stoke last season. A massive 2pts from that lot, and the enjoyment level of a having your toenails removed slowly and one at a time.

This season, so many new players, fitness blah. Yet so many of those new signings have been our best players; Pickford, Rooney, Keane. And we are further on than other teams so our fitness is better apparently.

Clearly so many want their cake and to proffer excuses at the same time.

If Koeman is progressing its at the speed of an ice breaker, discernible to all but acolytes.

All I want is to see clear evidence of him trying to win the game first, then he can see it out. He has completely satisfied my desire to make us resolute, beyond dispute and great credit to him.

He's making Moyes look adventurous, ouch!

Good finish too, from a tight angle into the roof of the net having had his first shot saved.

It's all the players' fault. The bastards love playing miserable football.

Fifty games and nearly as many players and poor old Ronnie still can't get them to adapt to his we'll-score-one-more-than-you approach.

Simple solution mate. Don't go.

Would you have taken RM's old team, with some few improvements (...) to terrorize anyone last year? Or even this year, when so very few of that old guard are left, and the rest have not yet learned to play together as a TEAM?

So yes, I had no expectations for our last season (except that we wouldn't go down).

And yet, if you are not too entrenched with your initial expectations, RK has got us moving forwards this last year!

Just to be flippant: If you don't have one or more Messi's in your team already, don't try to play like you should have had one of them anyway! Win, or at least don't lose, by any means, while you are waiting for one to show up...

We have been 2 players light there now for 2 seasons ,as Besic has been injured and McCarthy you may as well just discount , as he certainly can't be counted on by us, even to make the right decision for us, when it comes to Ireland.

Besic is no Gana, now for the 2nd day running we are being strongly linked with Dendonker, yesterday his agent supposedly said he wants us and today his clubs president has said we would get him for 20 plus million , just sell McCarthy and make this happen
.
As where we are supposedly said to be strong , it doesn't take much right now to expose that myth.

I'm hoping Chelsea's faithful feel the Sunday atmosphere and the fringe players stand up and be counted. Never slag a team before a game. Strange line ups can bring strange results.

I think John Aldridge was co-commentator.

Funny as fu- fu- fudge how indignant and biased the calling of the match was by both commentators.

Very much akin to this:

LinkLink

So if we tempted old SAF out of his retirement to replace RK, then his famous rants at half time would have made even Everton's (financially) available players win everything these last years?

There seems to be no real understanding with you at all, that for any team to win the PL will either require the most superior (and expensive!) players around available, or for someone like us to luck out like Leicester with just the proper mix of (supposedly worthless) players available for that season...

Why should an Evertonian not have his own personal opinion and it not have to be in trend with yours. Why should a fan's concern about a manager stop him going to the game anyway?
I am sure John has more affinity to the club than any manager as long as he has been an Evertonian. He doesn't have to like the manager, or any player for that matter, but he loves the club, like you, and it belongs to him more than any manager or player.

Life long Evertonians sick to the back teeth of seeing joyless soulless football being told "don't go" by people who spend their days apologising for it.

Unbelievable!

How about treating Chelsea with contempt. Defend solidly but not deep. Press, fight, get in their faces and have players on the pitch who can run at them. Get the team up for this match as if it was a game to save us from relegation. Please do not sit tight, concede a couple of goals and walk away saying they have more money than us. This is time for the coach to show that he can motivate and surprise.

Darren we have had some good teams who won some trophies and some shite one's who didn't. Like most clubs.

Don't overplay our history or the present., "We were kings"

Darren we have had some good teams who won some trophies and some shite one's who didn't. Like most clubs.

Don't overplay our history or the present., ,,1,21:42:28,,66.249.93.95,ok,19546,08/25/2017 21:42:28,debyrne,reader,, 843540,35393,toffeeweb,25/08/2017,Darren Hind,dashin@cheerful.com,Or the depressing acceptance of how we play now.,or our depressing acceptance of our situation now,,BlueKfrog,1,21:44:20,,94.9.151.41,ok,13643,08/25/2017 21:44:20,lauriblue,reader,, 843541,35394,toffeeweb,25/08/2017,Dave Abrahams,dave.abba@hotmail.com,"John he scored the last goal,in a 3-0 win.

Spurs haven't won the title since the 60s and we still have a situation where players would rather play for them than us. I don't think it's just the last or the next game that pisses Darren off.

Link

It's the whole game, so to see the goals fast forward to these times:

21mins - watch how canny Walsh is from the throw in, pushing the Chelsea defender away in the chest to give himself more room to receive the ball. He plays a sharp one-touch 1-2 with the thrower, Jones, takes a couple of touches before curling a delightful left footed pass in behind the Chelsea defence for Charsley. Charsley holds up the ball then plays it back to the advancing Walsh near the corner of the right side of their penalty, who now with his right foot whips a dangerous ball into their 6-yard area and the Chelsea defender can only turn it into his own net.

Next, fast forward to 1 hour 16 mins. From a bitty throw in down our left flank, close to their penalty area, Foulds feeds the ball to Liam. Walsh holds off the challenge from a Chelsea defender whilst taking 2-3 touches before rolling the ball across the edge of the penalty area to Banginime and from the 'D', Beni angles a first time daisy cutter back across the keeper into the left hand corner, helped a tad by Sambou jumping over the ball and possibly unsighting the keeper.

Finally, go to the 1 hour 46 minutes mark. It's worth it to see from where the 3rd goal starts. Gibson, on as sub, wins the ball well deep in his full back position and carries the ball deep into the Chelsea half before playing it inside to another sub Nathan Broadhead. He carries it to the edge of the Chelsea penalty area on the right, and lays it wide into the path of Niasse. He lets fly with a thunderous shot, well saved low down by the keeper, but Niasse is quicker to the rebound and from a tight angle wellies it into the roof of the net.

Watch until the end from here, the final 5 minutes, because you will also see Broadhead create a curl a beauty of the right post.

I was very impressed by how resolute and calm the defence played under the cosh for most of the match.

I take no pleasure at all in saying it but in terms of European success Chelsea, Man U, Forest, Villa, Leeds, Newcastle, Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham, Man City and Ipswich all won a European trophy before we did.

However, most supporters of the club generally see that progress is now being made. Most see that it's unlikely to be maintained unless there's a concentration on consistently avoiding defeat. Winning ways then develop from solid defence. Most recognise that those clubs more successful than us last year spent way more on accruing a squad (apart from Spurs perhaps, but last season was not the first they were all thrown together) and most of us recognise that the new squad we now have will take a month or two at least to gel together. It's the norm no matter the club or manager, at any level.

But some continue to spit their dummy out because we're not already destroying teams with scintillating football as we contemplate just the third league match of the season. Weird!

Pickford
Keane Williams Jagielka
Holgate Gueye Besic Baines
Sigurdsson Rooney Calvert Lewin

If Gueye isn't fit enough then expect Davies to come in for him. All of the front three track back and get forward with energy so I expect them all to start. Mirallas has been quiet so far in terms of minutes on the pitch, but I expect him to get a look in here from the bench.

If Koeman is feeling adventurous then perhaps he can play a 4231 as follows:

Holgate Keane Jagielka Baines
Davie Gueye
Lennon Sigurdsson Mirallas
Rooney

He would then have Lookman and Calvert-Lewin to thrown on from the bench.

Nine times... that's more than Chelsea, Forest, Villa, Leeds, Newcastle, Spurs, West Ham, Ipswich and Man City.

That may be a "sad" statement to your average embracer of mediocrity, but to Evertonians who know their history, it's an irrefutable fact.

Some fans (and people competing in general) take defeat or loss of progress worse than others. Loss of progress as in the last 20 years or to a smaller extent, 2 points dropped at Man City.

Now some fans don't see it as 2 points dropped and that is their right but I don't take offence to either side of the coin. I don't find anything wrong in a fan pointing out a fault when we win because I want to see us faultless. In our heads, we know that is virtually impossible but it's right to have a crack at it surely?

I think everyone who responds to Darren knows how much he loves the club. He's only like one of them American dads that coaches his kid at the dinner table etc.

In my opinion, what some see as 'negative', I just see as more desperate than most to reach the elite. I might be more desperate than you, Don, and patience is a virtue, mate, so good on you for having it. Mine wears thin every time we drop a point. Ha.

I hope everyone thinks Darren and the outspoken love talking with fellow blues though. Of course, we all do – or we wouldn't be on here... and some of the debate is fantastic.

In 3 years time, Baines and Jagielka will be gone. Rooney finished. Davies wanting to leave for Man Utd. Coleman, Bolasie, Sigurdsson all the wrong the side of 30. It's an awful plan if that's the intention.

When will you all realise that the only plan Everton board have is to remain top half?

If 20 years from now, we finish 7th, Moshiri will have trebled or quadrupled his investment. That's the plan!

History gets us sweet FA however warming it might be to reflect on it.

Darren/Paul. Obviously I'm with Don and his optimistic view. We all know you don't like the manager's style or tactics. No problem with that. But come on, we are building a team now. We are starting to become competitive for the first time in 30-odd years. Can you not just put the style to one side, for now, whilst this process happens?

It's not about rolling over, it's about being patient. Most of us can see that, hence we can put up with it at the moment. And worse case? We likely only have another 20 months of watching a Koeman team. There's always a brightside!

You're also bob-on in saying Koeman might just be history if he doesn't deliver by the end of next season. I hope he does though, but only for our sake, not his.

Lastly, Mr Bellis; My "ugly gob" has actually been kissed by a Penthouse-Pet . so there! Hope your flight's not delayed by the way!

That was an amusing link but I imagine, quite similar to the "Real" thing!

We won the u23 league last season we have a few quality lads within that squad, this may be the perfect opportunity to see weather there up to the challenge.

Niasse should be included in the squad no matter what Koemans gripe is, he will be sold and Koemans point has been made, but if Niasse is on the bench and is used to get the goal that sneaks us a point or three then Koeman needs to be the bigger person and act as a manager and not a school head master.

We may get beat on Sunday, or we may not. The key is the big picture. We are going in the right direction.

I remember what is was like, just, and even under this evolving team it feels so far away.

I would never even take any comparisons from Martinez's teams, he set the bar so low it aint worth it.

People say it takes time. Yet Koeman coached a defensive solidity into that shambles in about 10mins. So although attacking may take longer to craft, not 50 games worth. We were solid from almost day one under him, the Chelsea aberration apart.

My point, albeit laboured is he can make us play with more verve and with one eye on the fluid. Yet he chooses not too even against poorer sides.

We have an improved squad of players, even from last year. Most teams come to Goodison and start sh$$ting bricks in order to build a wall they're that limited.

Theres no reason to be that defensive, surely. So tell me why he chooses too?

"he can make us play with more verve and with one eye on the fluid"

But can he? Does he have the know how? He tanked at Valencia. Did ok in Holland. During his time at Southampton they were solid and generally difficult to beat but they hardly ever put teams to the sword. I saw a few Southampton games when he was in charge, and they played in a similar fashion to us now. They also had the occasional game like we had against city last season but it wasn't the norm.

My point is, if anyone is expecting a free flowing attacking mind set from Koeman, you're not going to get it. Even with all the money we have spent. It's always going to safety first. That's his style.

Will it be enough? Hard to stay but this type of football has to be producing trophies otherwise the majority of fans will turn before the season is finished.

However, I'm being patient at the moment. Improvement on league position and good runs in the cup, with possibly winning a couple. Thats the realistic thing we can aim for with our squad. We'll know by January or February time if patience was the right thing or not.

Last year Manure were solid, "boring" and nicked games from solid safe, well organised platform

Two seasons in and they are now progressing nicely

We have a structure to playing and the U23's reflected that last night and won 3-0 - with the thee best pieces of quality on display .

It takes time to bed in a style of play - it combines strength of defensive set up and the ability to play fast sharp passes on transition or exploit weaknesses in formation or players in the opposition to find space and score goals . add in clever player recruitment, overall top fitness, discipline, bonded confident dressing room, work rate, express yourself and productivity on assists and goals at the right time - then we have a formula for getting back from 14th palace and into the top 7 and looking up not backwards - and in 4 competitions . enjoy the ride guys .

That is the point precisely and well made.
We need to be patient, being "we have won the league 9 times and I want it NOW" hasn't worked.
Allow him time to build his team and squad, if it doesn't show big signs of improvement by the end of the season get on his back then.

If we win a trophy without playing school of science football how many will walk down Wembley Way saying "I'm not celebrating, the football wasn't all that"
I have been brought to tears of joy and welled up on many occasions watching the stellar football some of our great sides have played, I would give anything to see it again in a Koeman team. In the meantime I would take a trophy for a side built on defensive solidity. It's been too long.

John Pierce,

I posted last night mate, my post to you looked wrong after I had sent it. I explained it afterwards.
No disrespect intended.

I like most blues would dance down the street if we won something under RK , unfortunately I can't see it happening. His defensive mindset will see us safely in 7/8th with the occasional stellar win. The comparison with Chelsea or United parking the bus and building from defensive solidity doesn't ring true as they have fast aggressive players up top
- Hazard, Pedro, willian, Rashford, Martial, Lukaku - and we do not. So our defensive solidity does not translate into fast incisive counter attacks and , the much talked of transition does not happen anywhere near quickly enough.

How ever will be there Sunday with hope in heart ready to dance down street.

Coyb

Churchill said something along the lines of, the only purpose of history is to learn from it. So if you know your history...

We started spending the Moores money in 59/60. And we brought in a fair few new players that season like Vernon, Gabriel, Lill, Wignall and Ring who played alongside Labone, Temple Collins, Parker and Harris, who were already there. We finished 15th that season. We didn't win the league until 62/63 but improved gradually and recruited well especially after Catterick joined us. He developed the squad from outside and from within, and we won again in 69/70 with a Cup in between. We were in the upper reaches of the league most of that time. And the football was sublime and pragmatic .

Then it all turned to rat.

Similar when Howard came in, false starts, Biley et al arrived but nothing happened for a good while until , clever recruitment and maturing home grown players and Harvey was promoted . And we won stuff over time, gradually, and the football was sublime and pragmatic.

Then it all turned to rat.

And football changed.

Now we are hopefully again in another cycle, part way at least, but in an era when it is not a level playing field, so it will take time to develop whether we rail or complain about it, just like it did in the last two times we experienced success. We celebrate the successes but forget the time and work it took to get there. And the gaps in between.

We can't blame Koeman , Walsh and Moshiri for the faults that have gone on for decades before, which is maybe the root of some of the impatience.

So whether we like it or not, experience shows this stuff takes time, and there are sometimes false starts and mistakes. Not everything will work. Live with it folks and maybe, just maybe with care and skilful planning we will experience success again and the football will be sublime and pragmatic.

And with luck this time it won't turn to rat.

Whoever said the game had to be entertaining ?

All Evertonians know how many times we have won the league or could Google it in a nano second not an imaginary group of specials who "know their history".

If we can do that, we can do it more often, more consistently, and it can be a case of getting the machine oiled and running to speed gradually. I think this is reinforced by signings such as Sigurdsson and Klaasen, who are definitely finesse players focused on attacking.

So although Koeman has seemed defensive minded, there's reason to believe it won't stay that way.

We don't have much attacking verve though - it's a pragmatic team.

Rooney and Siggy will do all the right things to a very high standard and I'm made up to have them.

It's a real shame Bolasie isn't fit as at least he has that unpredictability.

I still wish we hadn't let Dowell out on loan. But I guess we'll see who we get the coming week.

" My "ugly gob" has actually been kissed by a Penthouse-Pet "

OK, so you've kissed some bird's pet goat. So what?

(NOT a euphemism)

I don't believe he is moe visionary or tactically superior to the Scotsman -just lucky to have picked up the baton in better times.

There were times under Moyes when we played some good joined up football. I'm thinking of Pienaar, Osman and Arteta in particular, playing little triangles and the Yak and Cahill finishing off the moves.

I'm sure we'd all settle for some of that if we can get Rooney, Sigurdsson and Bolasie supporting a top striker.

God help us against most of the Premier League teams this year notwithstanding the top 4/6/7. It's a bit like Corbyn having money to pay for everything but conceding he did not when he lied about saying he would abolish student loans.

Everton have clearly made a faux pas in not getting striker reinforcements especially given Koeman was (previously) looking for another striker to add to Lukaku to provide striker options. It's like some Everton fans must live in the same fairy land as Corbyn.

All these top Premier League teams have been getting in striker reinforcements and other reinforcements throughout this window. Everton's apparent transformation with getting in those players earlier on was clearly 'smoke and mirrors'.

Do you wait a certain amount of posts before inserting your arbitrary negative comment/baiting?

So far Koeman has managed to improve league performance in his one full season in charge and so far this season is undefeated. Ok, so far it hasn't been rip roaring, but getting through a very tough opening month in as best state as possible is the most important thing.

As for lack of attacking players? Koeman has signed Sigurdsson, Rooney, Bolasie, Klaassen & Sandro whilst stating that he wants another striker.

Perfect? Not by a long way, and there are plenty of areas that need improving (as the manager states frequently) but so far the primary aim has been achieved in securing European football beyond August.

This weekend's game against Chelsea will be tough given the amount of games played so far and the amount of injuries. If we avoid more injuries and get a point, it will, in my opinion, represent a good result. Decent break for internationals to get everyone back fit. Home to Spurs for a better idea of where we stand as a team.

I don't think the Koeman/Moyes comparisons are far off – Koeman is making us difficult to beat first of all, which is what needed to happen after Martinez.

What's interesting is whether he can take it to the next stage and make us an attacking force – the jury is out; I just don't see the players for it right now. Perhaps a couple more during the window will change that.

My formation would be 4-5-1:

Pickford
Holgate, Keane, Jagielka, Baines
Calvert-Lewin, Davies, Sigurdsson, Besic, Mirallas
Rooney

Subs: Stekelenburg, Martina, Kenny, Williams, Lookman, Lennon

Rooney to get supported by Siggy at every opportunity and win us some free-kicks around the box for Siggy to score another cracker!

To me. seventh is the best we can expect from any manager given our still limited resources.

As far as Koeman is concerned,he is the pragmatist we so desperately needed after the 'Catalan Fantasist'. Just don't expect much entertaining football is all.

My logic tells me that selling very good players and replacing them with good to decent players makes the team slightly weaker. We finished 7th and we have two central midfielders that can't shoot, play a killer ball, or take a man on... and never get ahead of the ball. Schneiderlin doesn't even draw a man in before passing it.

As for this current board, we've allowed them to continue to sell to buy. Where's the USM money, the Sky money, the Arteta money? What is the 3-year plan? Someone explain to me. Has Moshiri or Koeman actually said there is one?

I have a 1-week plan. Get Costa with a one-season loan or £30m buyout clause for Atletico. Sign Koulibaly or Van Dijk. Let Barkley run his contract out and play him in central midfield. Get Sessegnon as cover for Baines.

That would impress me. Moshiri is so far being praised for carrying on the tried and trusted Kenwright plan. Moyes finished 4th; Martinez 5th. Both had semis finals or better.

Let's praise Koeman and Moshiri once they deliver. Please provide evidence or a thought process and prove me wrong. No strawman, blind faith or abuse please.

This is a football forum which avoids the two things that should never be discussed here - politics and religion. This is just as well otherwise we might have to read more complete nonsense like you've posted.

Clearly your football knowledge is as ill-informed, inaccurate and ignorant as your political knowledge. That is some achievement.

My point is, how long will it take to get used to playing twice a week again?

Should Koeman depart to pastures greener, I'm sure that the Everton board will look at this thread and stick a pin in any one of the names in order to find a new manager. Such an array of experts!!!

Like the tory bus driving around with a banner promising £350 million given to the NHS every week after Brexit?

For this season to be deemed successful, I think we need to achieve 2 things. More points than last season, and to be much closer to top 4. The final position will be a consequence of that. Then it is a matter of degree which will be debated at the end of the season.

A trophy would be lovely as would some silky soccer. But top 4 is the target agreed with Moshiri, as far as I know.

Substance over style may need to suffice for the time being.

Phil, are you ready for the Blue invasion of Cyprus? I know you've only got a 10 bedroom Villa but you should be able to fit in a few hundred tents in your back garden, right?

That assumes that everyone's performance will be the same as last season, which I guess might be unlikely. But yes it could be possible.

Part might be conceding less goals, which we need to do anyway. We will need to manage games better too, and have a bit of nark at places like Anfield. The question is can we score enough?

I hope Costa arrives by Thursday. Failing that, someone else who brings goals is a must.

Given the average age of matchgoing Blues, the clock's ticking down for many; doubt we could be patient for another 22 years

The exclamation was to the grim reaper; I should have put quotation marks around the quotation, though I thought the reference to scythe was the telling point
My apologies to all offended, certainly not intended as a riposte to Don
James, I unintentionally appeared rude...what's your excuse?

Will. Ahhhhh thank you for that. That'll teach me to react when I've just woken up. I guess that makes me the 'bell'. Apologies Phil.

So my excuse? I was wrong as misread and misunderstood what you typed on first quick read through with my sleepy eyes. Plus I was trying to help out Don as felt he was being picked on with your random comment. I now know better.

Cheers James etc
I too had just crawled out of my pit, doing my best Sean of the Dead impression, logged on and scanned recent posts

Right, let's add a couple more caveats to using t'internet...
Never post on ToffeeWeb when you've
...been drinking
...just woken up

And yeah, agreed. 4-1 Everton. Sig (just from 35 yards this time), Jags, DCL and Rooney the scorers. Chelsea's an offside last minute consolation.

I remember being critical of Martinez from the get-go, but I always supported his teams on matchdays – just as I support Koeman's.

In a lifetime of following this club, I have only ever come across one Evertonian who publically willed us to lose, because he didn't rate the manager. It's because I found it so incredibly hard to get my head around, I still remember who it was. I still clearly remember you willing us to lose the semi final against Man Utd because you were worried we may win the cup and Martinez kept his job.

Supporting and applauding mediocrity can only ever result in prolonging it and I and other like-minded supporters will not be part of it.

I understand people supporting managers. I have a healthy respect for people who have enough about them to criticise them when they are serving up shite.... but I can't be doing with sanctimonious faux outrage when the current manager is criticised. Not from somebody who openly wished for his predecessor to lose at Wembley so he could get his wish and see him sacked.

Both Martinez and Koeman have served up turgid uninspiring dross. (I don't think anybody going to dispute that one?) Bleating and protesting about criticism of one when you were clearly prepared to enter a Faustian pact to see the back of another makes you sound like you feel a desperate need to be vindicated... That will never happen.

Your patience with this brand of football is enduring it seems. That alone is admirable. I once, was that sort of Toffee but as a club we have won nothing for a good number of years.

Albeit under varying expectations we have got nowhere near sating that rich thirst.

A gap, which justifies my harder line towards the club as a whole nowdays. The investment and realignment of expectations from the club itself grounds for a more critical eye.

My view has now altered completely. Despite the trend trophies can be won with a defensive outlook, the better exponents have much better players and much superior managers. We have neither.

Simply put much easier to start offensively and close a game down than the opposite.

We will see. Last season on these pages I said 10 games (top 7), still in the league cup and through to the Europa groups. All three no excuses. If not then we've stalled and I will start to cast envious glances at other managers.

I will tout them with all fervour!

This week, it's "They're all dead tired from playing a couple of matches."

Can't wait for "The dog ate Koeman's clipboard."

But at least yours stays the same.

John G Davies @ 125, similar to Graves, D. as above, I can't very well read your minds for the point so it would be beneficial to me if you were to make that point. In any event, Corbyn was an analogy to Everton fans living in cloud cuckoo land if we/ they think that there won't be a considerable challenge in the Premier League without striker reinforcements. It is quite negligent actually if we're expected to do even reasonably well this season.

I am just bored of seeing an average Everton side relative to the Premier League main teams or even top 10 teams. If we can't score we won't win, so what good is it being able to prevent the opponent from scoring if we ourselves can't score enough when opportunities avail? Look at the chances we had against Split.

Rooney just is not up to the task anymore; I look at Lookman and think he is simply not good enough yet. Yes, we have Sigurdsson as a threat now but what good is he where we have no instrumental target man (No 9)?

A few on here (including me) had us to win and draw at the Etihad at 10/1 + 5/1 last week, although I was late and only got 9s.

The football may not be worth watching, but I reckon taking advantage of silly odds for a draw at the grounds of the big boys may prove to be quite profitable this season.

Always back the win as well, though; our embarrassing run at these grounds has to end soon and you'll kick yourself if you like a bet and you weren't on.

Chelsea are looking shaky at the moment, but I fear we'll withdraw into our shell and play very deep.

Still cant ignore the value of the odds though.. tenner on each.

First reading, I actually struggled to understand what you had written given your liberal use of grammar and punctuation. I am however prepared to try and interpret a meaning but struggle with your "analogy".

WTF are you actually trying to say?

Last time I checked we were unbeaten this season, have made some excellent buys, are playing to full houses, are exceptionally strong at all levels below the first team, are in the long process of moving into a new ground in a superb location and have achieved a financial stability not seen for almost 50 years. I personally don't see much to moan about; we have a way to go for sure but good fans will support the club in the efforts it's making to turn the ship around. Good fans will do as John Wilson observes above and give the management some time to do this.

OK, dat ish rayshing.

They forget that some very strong assets are missing (Coleman, Funes and Bolasie along with McCarthy who we could do with to replace Schneiderlin against Chelsea). Injuries and suspensions can upset the best laid plans but Everton have a good core of newcomers chomping at the bit to come in and prove their worth.

Chelsea will be a big task and it is a place where we have had very little success but even though they were surprised against Burnley they may just get surprised again given the Pickford, Keane, Rooney and Sigurdsson class additions to the team.

Leicester are 5/1 for the draw tonight and 10/1 to win. Having taken 12/1 for top six I had to follow them

I think you are right, The bookies are so obsessed with top six that we are going under the radar. The bookies have gone soft !

What price will I get for hell freezing over ???

Blues should have little problem with this one but sorry to miss it (and be able to offer you Cypriot hospital – although most of my neighbours are Russians!)

Just leave the keys under the mat, Phil.

Make hay, my friend, make hay!

"I will have to call the office... Sorry we can't take that."

Looking at the farce (sorry, fight) odds.
Bit of value in the grouped rounds market.

Can you please reassure us all that you in fact did not say that? Maybe Darren has mixed something up? We all do that now and then.

So, again, Martin please reassure all Evertonians on here that you never said that you wanted Everton to lose a semi-final.

If you did say this, then you should never ever come on this fabulous prize-winning Evertonian forum to post again.

If you did not say this, I apologize for asking the question.

Sorry I don't like ducking questions, I simply didn't see yours.

Anyway "What do you do about this IMAGINED (?) mediocrity other than moan?"

Well, as a mere paying customer, I do what most disgruntled customers do. I register my discontent. I have done it by mail and I have done it to Koeman's face.

I took a group of youngsters up to Finch Farm last season. We were distant observers when, all of a sudden, Honest Ron himself appeared. Right amongst us.

Everyone paid due deference, but being somebody who managed to get over his shyness at nine (months), I decided "This is my chance." I asked him to explain the defensive mindset we have adopted.

In fairness, he was charm itself. He spent a good 30 seconds explaining to me that these things take time – Jam tomorrow.

I have to say, I was taken aback that he even answered my question; he probably gets asked a thousand questions if he stops to fill his car up... but at least I asked it.

Which brings me back to you and your shameless hypocrisy.

These "good fans" you refer to... do they want us to lose semi-finals? Do they exonerate the manager of all blame after 12 months of Zombie football?

I have no problem at all with people who accept shite football. They are limited to what they can do. It's people like you who embrace and applaud it I can't fathom.

You happy clappers hold this club back. If enough of you keep giving the message that everything is wonderful in the garden, why would anybody would want to change it?

Settle for shite and they will serve it to you in buckets; applaud it and they will deliver it by the cart load.

In your conversation with Ronald did you mention the 'zombie football'? Surely someone as self professedly bold would have given him both barrels?

Maybe you saved it for the email?

Yours,

A concerned happy clapper.

I am not at all happy with your style of football.
Please change it pronto.

Yours Sincerely

Disgruntled
Tunbridge Wells.

Thank you for your conshern. I'm quite new to thish game sho pleashe forgive me. I'd be happy if you came round to Goodishon and talked me through the bashics of this game. Should I stop clapping now? Is thish face gloomy enough.

Now listen you Frankie Howard.
I'm not having this style of football, UNDERSTAND?
It's zombie football.
You have got the happy clappers clapping happy and it's not on

I am sure you remember me from the convo at Finch Farm, get it sorted.

All the best.

And Chris Williams (#104), great post from the real world.

PS ....... Just woken up personally!

Paul Ferry,

When you develop, run and moderate your own forum you decide who should "never ever come" on it again. Til then, get back in your box.

I think this falls down for several reasons.

1. The influence of individual club fans is less now than ever be before. Forums like this have no impact, meetings between individual fans at Finch Farm even less and booing or shouting at games little positive effect.

2. Every club's fans apart from a few at top of league at a moment in time feel the same. If we all do what you say, doh, nothing changes. Us Everton fans different. Umm. Probably not.

3. How we play? Let's say manager changes. OK, that becomes then hugely subjective. To me the clever passing at the end of the game last Thurs was dull. To you? Who knows. You hate this, I think it clever. You like that, I think it naive. So new manager is good or bad.

So in the end I am clumsily saying that:

1. You can moan all ya like but as a fan, or even as a group of fans, you are utterly powerless. If you go, your role is to provide atmosphere. If you watch through Sky/BT, you job is to consume. Either way your job is to pay silly amounts to enable payment of even sillier amounts to those in "the game". If you never pay one cent to a PL interest (me now)you are either wise or a bad fan.

2. You demand for change and reasons for it are fine. Your arguments about why you are right are yours. And those who disagree are the same. But to take your argument further and five the impression of benign acceptance is silly, because of point 1 above.

I mean if regularly winning, remaining unbeaten, and a fundamentally new team defending with obvious success gives him no pleasure AT ALL just why does he bother?

Or is he the actual 21st Century Schizoid Man?

It is the implication that those who disagree are somehow apologists propping up a system that, if we all joined Darren, we could overthrow and once again by "Kings" that I question. Simplistic nonsense driven by a true blessing heart methinks.

Real classy response that lad. Shame it wasn't as balanced as mine offering an apology if I was wrong.

You don't see the irony do you or maybe you are incapable of seeing it. Your response is every bit as dogmatic and what is the word pithy as you think mine to be.

Yes you're right I don't run this forum. But I have a right to express an opinion about what is said on here. Happens all the time (hint: read this thread through). If I think Martin Mason should not be on an Evertonian thread for wanting Everton to lose then I'll fucking say it. Okay? Am I making myself clear? That is my opinion and your tart high-horse sentences are nothing but an annoying irritation.

Martin Mason, if he bothers to say he did or he didn't (you see Mr Jennings there is a wide door open there), will I'm sure fall back on the old 'free speech stuff'. He has done so before. Maybe you Mr Jennings might take note and be a little less instant bluster and pious if you ever again choose to aim one of your arrows at me from your box.

What on earth are you talking about ?

"The foundation of my whole argument" ? . . That's right up there with when you took the trouble to come on here and express your faux outrage about me "writing Klaassen off" - when you know full well I hadn't even mentioned him.

Lets get this straight "my argument" was a response . .a RESPONSE to a direct question. "What do you do ?" . . The question is still up there . . .wanna check ?

I don't at any stage say everyone who is prepared to give Koeman more time is a "happy clapper", but I stand absolutely behind my belief that people who are applauding this crap are.

This isn't even confined to a football argument. It applies to all walks of life. If you pat somebody on the back every day. they will feel they are pleasing you and will continue to do the same things. . . You don't see that ?

The "clever passing" at the end of the game on Thursday is exactly what I would expect from any team. Exhausted Second rate opposition needed to score twice and had ten minutes to do it. . . but for one sublime moment of brilliance, the preceding eighty minutes had been business as usual.
The bare minimum I would call it. . . "Clever passing" to you call it.
Trust me when I tell you. If we pass the ball that well against premiership opposition today I will be clapping louder than you.

To answer another question

No I did not refer to our style of play as "zombie football". Dull uninspiring football only becomes Zombie football when its served up for Thirty, Forty . . Fifty games.

Anybody see our style of play changing ? Na of course it wont.

I guess that's life, some people want excitement and joy, others are more "positive" and will settle for contentment and premier league respectability . . even if its served up on a cracked ugly plate

Certainly not Jose the special one:-

"Everyone said that Ajax was pretty, and that it matters a lot about the beauty of the game, and blah blah blah," Mourinho added.
"It is beautiful for me not to give the opponent what he wants."

To waste a sunny Sunday morning stepping into your angry pit would be silly at my age. I would try and make a declaration not a to respond to your posts anymore (as if that would matter one jot), but it would I be like saying you won't poke a sore tooth with your tongue. But for rest of today. Maybe. Anyway things to do before I half heartedly watch the game.

Remember that "mediocrity" is just an opinion that you have not fact. The reality is that we are a strong team in the best league in the world with a future beckoning that most teams can only dream about. The unfortunate thing is that we have a very tiny minority of fans like you who don't have the understanding of the game to realise that turning Everton around from mid table poorly financed, low quality to the very top will take time possibly 5 years. In between now and then there will disappointments which good supporters will accept.

Remember:
Unbeaten this season
Very good buys this window.
Playing to full houses.
Exceptionally strong at all development levels.
In the process of moving into a new ground in a superb location.
Have achieved a financial stability not seen for almost 50 years.

I Ignored your other stuff because I felt you you were just sounding off, trying to gain kudos without ever actually saying anything, I even ignored the nonsensical and totally fabricated nonsense you posted about me writing Klaassen off.

But be assured. I'm not angry, had a great day yesterday and will spend the day with my family, You know, all the things you do when you put the ball away. Then hopefully I will see a good positive display from the boys.

If you can stick to your promise to yourself and not to ask me questions. You can be very certain, you will not get answers you don't like

Just because Darren doesn't rate the current boss and chooses to criticise his methods and performance on a public forum he can simply be discounted as a piss poor fan, rather than merely a disgruntled one? Utter nonsense.

What counts as 'genuine support' in your book, Martin? Going the game for years, irrespective of whether you think the gaffer of the moment is a meff or a great, getting solidly behind the team when you're actually sat inside Goodison, raising your kids and grandkids to be Evertonians and taking them to the game with you? None of that matters if you happen to point out Koeman's overly cautious set-up doesn't get your heart going like the clappers?

How about debating player purchases, tactics and strategy rather than the dirge of solution-free negativity and personal stuff?

Right though, enough said.

That single statement says it all for me!

Disagreements are part and parcel of life, and suggesting another fan's support is not genuine - or that they are a disgrace and should be ashamed because their ideas about how to support the club are different from yours - is a very reductive argument.

We all have different opinions.
Darren dies give it out sometimes, as we all do. He can be descriptive( 😀) over people who hold different opinions. I am sure he does it in good spirit. As long as he takes the bit he gets back in the same spirit everyone's a winner.

One thing can't be denied. He is Blue through and through to the core.

I get numerous posts from people who tell me I'm a miserable bastard who should stop moaning, they think its perfectly okay to shout down people without ever challenging the points raised. they think its okay to misrepresent my argument, they even think it's okay fabricate utter nonsense in order to try to give their posts some credence. I accept it, I could walk away but I don't believe debates should ever be allowed to become one sided. I know 95% of these posts come from the same 1/2 dozen people, I often choose to ignore, but I get a little dismayed when the people who freely attack then start bleating because I have used terms like happy clappers.

If you can offer me a better term for people who defend and praise the pug ugly stuff we watch. I will gladly adopt it.

Like others you try desperately hard to misrepresent my argument and stand point . .its because you cant counter it. I don't complain about financial stability or the prospect of moving to a new stadium . .I don't even make demands on where we finish. I have three complaints about this Manager and to make things clear enough for even you to understand them I will spell them out again.

1) We play dull unadventurous football under this manager.

2) We play dull unadventurous football under this manager

3) We play dull and unadventurous football under this manager.

I will gladly debate with people who have a different view to me. I have no problem with them calling me a moaning fucker and feel it is perfectly fair to reciprocate by calling those who defend this dross Happy clappers.
If Koeman got more adventurous and started to entertain us, I would stop moaning and start clapping with the best of them.

You on the other hand were more than happy to see us lose a semi final even though you knew it would break a million Evertonian hearts, many of whom have never seen success. . .Simply because you didn't rate the manager . . and you were desperate to be right -

See the difference ? No ? . .didn't think so