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Tosun rubbishes talk of Besiktas return

| Tuesday, 09 October 2018 93comments  |  Jump to last
Cenk Tosun has described reports that he could return to Turkey in the upcoming transfer window as nonsense.

According to MyNet, the striker's former club Besiktas are keen on re-signing him on the basis that his move to Goodison Park hasn't yet worked out as he had hoped., however, have passed on information from "a source close to the player" that Tosun is fully committed to the Blues and has no intention of leaving so soon after signing for them in a £21M deal last January.

Tosun isn't the only Everton player being linked with the Turkish league. Oumar Niasse is once again being talked about in terms of a switch to Galatasaray, a link that has surfaced in every window since he moved to Merseyside two years ago.

Niasse is said to have been told he is free to leave Everton in January if a suitable buyer comes in for him.

These reports come amidst stories linking the Blues with Mbwana Samatta, a Tanzanian international striker who has started making a name for himself at Genk in Belgium even though he scored just 19 goals in 66 games for them.

Reader Comments (93)

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Paul Kossoff
1 Posted 09/10/2018 at 15:41:23
Tosun's off, apparently, Everton striker Cenk Tosun is set for a return to Besiktas, who could take the 27-year-old Turkey international on loan in January. (MyNet, via Talksport)
Never mind... we have Big Dom to get us 20 a season! 😥
Kase Chow
2 Posted 09/10/2018 at 20:46:56
We certainly need a couple of goalscoring strikers if we have any ambitions:

Tosun = nice guy but not good enough

Calvert-Lewin = superb athlete but not a finisher

Niasse = too much of a wild card

Richarlison = superb prospect and the best option we have up top at the moment but I think he's more dangerous out on the wing

Walcott = again, too easy to mark if restricted to being up top

I keep saying it but it's amazing that there have been three transfers windows since Lukaku was sold (including the window in which he was sold) and the best we could do was sign one recognised striker and that was the unproven Tosun

Liverpool have four strikers capable of scoring 15-20+ (and maybe a fifth in Ings) and I'm not sure we have one...

Drew O'Neall
3 Posted 09/10/2018 at 21:05:56
You can stick our Tanzanian Genk striker!
Gordon White
4 Posted 09/10/2018 at 21:46:16
Like with many of our players, a section of the fans are quick to criticise. I could accept it if he was getting exceptional service and was missing loads of clear-cut chances. But really?

It wasn't long ago fans were questioning Sigurdsson and moaning about the outlay. Most of our current players, given the support and encouragement of the club and the fans, and a reasonable run in the right position, would come good.

Jerome Shields
5 Posted 09/10/2018 at 22:03:02
I am not surprised that both Tosun and Niasse are being mentioned in transfer speculation.

Tosun has scored only one goal and is not able to turn his marker and mainly lays off balls. He is not threatening enough as a forward. I did think this was because of the high press tactics of Silva and Tosun having a leading role in it. I also thought that support play from the midfield was a problem, not providing the patterns he was used to. But it now appears that Ricarlison has no such problems.

In the case of Niasse, he really has been disappointing this season. He did not put enough work in during the Summer to get up to speed with Silva's system. He looks completely out of sync with the rest of the team. Maybe, because he's played for Silva before, he felt he didn't have to make an effort and just relaxed.

Brands and Silva are continually assessing these players. I expect at least Niasse to be gone and maybe Tosun in January as well. Calvert-Lewin has put more work in and scored more goals.

David Barks
6 Posted 09/10/2018 at 22:27:42

But Tosun has received plenty of good service. He’s squandered many chances, clear unmarked headers, hesitated with the ball at his feet in the box, failed to make the run with a perfect ball sent into the box. Tosun this season, unlike last, has had the service and simply not produced. Service has not been the issue this season for any of our strikers.

Simon Smith
7 Posted 09/10/2018 at 22:32:32

Maybe 5, Ings !!!! Really, Ings? I'm not sure we would find a place in our starting 11 for Ings if I'm honest mate. Who are the other 4 ?

Sturridge is there only out and out striker, he is quality if I'm honest, but if he was at us he wouldn't play often enough due to his injury record, as proven again last season at West Brom.

Firmino, yes I'd call him a striker and I'd admit he's better than ours.

That's it for me, Mane, Salah and I'm presuming Shaqiri? None of them are strikers. Walcott, Richarlison and Lookman are as much out-and-out strikers as any of them.

Imo, we need to accept that Calvert-Lewin could do with a loan deal to a top championship side, look at what it's done for Mitrovic.

Niasse isn't up to it, he works hard and is a physical presence, but his ability is limited.

Tosun is our best bet but he has nothing on Lukaku (our last good striker) or any of Arsenal's, Spurs, or Chelsea's strikers.

We need to buy a proven talent for big money, someone who has the potential to become a big star at us and move on for a huge profit.

I'm no scout but Batshuyai, Martial, Rashford and Morata have proven to have ability, it would be up to the coaches at our club to unlock there ability to get the best out of any of them.

I'm sure there's other top players, look at what the shite have found over the years in Torres, Suarez, and Salah. The players are out there, it's up to the scouts or whoever at the club to sign us the right player.

Gordon White
8 Posted 09/10/2018 at 22:52:43
Jerome and David,

I take on board your comments. And well put they are too.

I just wonder with some of these players if it's confidence? Like Tom. Tosun had a good record: 40 odd goals in 90 appearances? Okay, this is the Premier League. But I felt there were promising signs when he first played.

It's good that we feel we can do better. It's a sign of things to come. But I can't help thinking that, for the time being, we might make better use of the resources we've got.

Sam Hoare
9 Posted 09/10/2018 at 22:56:15
Pretty tough to find reliable strikers.

The likes of Martial, Morata and Rashford would cost plenty and yet come with pretty unimpressive strike rates in the Premier League.

Or perhaps you go for the likes of Deeney, Callum Wilson or Glenn Murray who have done the job at times for ‘smaller' clubs.

Or you go for the recent foreign hotshot but we saw how that worked out with Sandro. And so far Tosun.

Tricky stuff. Especially in the January window. I think Richarlison up top with Bernard on the left may well be our best bet this season and see what options are around in the summer.

Denis Richardson
10 Posted 09/10/2018 at 23:06:43
No chance in hell the likes of Martial or Morata would come to us. These guys can walk into most Champions League clubs in Europe – why on earth would they come to us? A team thats won fuck-all for over 20 years and is nowhere near top 6, let alone Champions League. They can get paid more elsewhere and be at a higher-profile club.

Our scouts need to do their jobs and find decent hungry strikers of quality and not household names that any armchair fan has heard of. Suarez was unearthed from the Dutch league, Salah initially cost Chelsea just £11m before being bought by them for £34m. Tosun was a desperation buy last January as Niasse was all we had.

Tosun, Calvert-Lewin and Niasse are simply nowhere near the quality we need. I doubt any of them would be bought by another Premier League club if we tried to sell.

January isn't a great time to buy anyone but we need to sign at least two decent strikers for our squad.

Chris Watts
11 Posted 10/10/2018 at 00:08:21
Pretty much agree with the comments above. None of our current 3 strikers are good enough to break into the top 6. In fact, I'm struggling to think of a Premier League side any of them would get into. Tosun is the best.

I think this has been apparent because of the quality of players we have brought in and for this we should be happy. M&M clearly know the quality we need and I have every confidence they are identifying a target now. We won't progress without a top striker and — now we have sorted the defence, left-back and have pace and creativity — this is a must.

Calvert-Lewin needs to go out on loan. Bernard and Richarlison are so far ahead, it's like they are in a different league.

What about Tino Werner? He might be getable with a massive offer. Whatever happens, we are likely going to have to spend big. I can't see us picking up a world class striker on the cheap or from the lower leagues — again, I have every confidence each signing will improve the team.

Simon Smith
12 Posted 09/10/2018 at 00:18:32
Lads, I'm not saying all the above strikers want to move to us, especially Martial and Morata, What I am saying is someone out there must want to play, week-in & week-out, like Lukaku did.

Also for anyone who talks about foreign players like Sandro and Tosun you have me wrong, I said we need to bite the bullet and spend big.

Tosun cost a similar fee that Tores cost Liverpool a decade ago. Sandro cost what many clubs pay for kids with potential. I'm talking about a Sigurdson-style transfer, a Lukaku-style transfer, a Fellaini style transfer. For us to make this happen means that fee now a day is £60-70M. It means we can't afford much else without selling.

We have a keeper, we don't really need a left or right back, we have Zouma on loan for centre-half along with Mina who's yet to play, so them with Holgate and Keane is plenty. We have wide men now with no room for Lookman for whom we turned down £25M. We may need a creative centre mid, although were yet to see Gomes. The squad isn't too bad, we just need a top draw striker.

If we need say a centre mid we could put together a package for Ramsey or Fabregas, both proven in the league and both most probably available. Put the right financial package together and either of them are cheap (Ramsey 6 months on contract, Fab getting on).

We have Niasse, McCarthy, Besic, Jagielka, Bolasie, to sell or get off wage bill to free up bits of funds, but again what we do need is a big time striker who is first name on team sheet and won't need to be left out for Calvert-Lewin who is mearly a young £1M lad from the Championship who has potential.

Schniederlin or Davies
Walcott or Lookman

That's a good side, but if we had a Lukaku who would walk in that side we would really push on and do stuff.

I'd like to see Sigurdsson in place of Schniederlin or Davies, Bernard behind striker, Richarlison back on left and a top-notch striker up top.

Deeney or Wilson will most probably prove to be another Tosun, decent but not level-changing. We need a Lacazette or an Abameyang, a striker with pace, tricky feet and the ability to turn a draw into a win.

Batshuayi would be my choice: he scored when given a chance at Chelsea, scored at Dortmund on loan and taken by Valencia on loan. All 3 clubs are Champions League regulars; if they all fancy a punt on him, then that must say he has something. Also, add the fact he's got goals for Belgium too btw.

Fran Mitchell
13 Posted 10/10/2018 at 00:39:06
We should go all out for Boca striker Pavon. We don't need a rampaging target man, we need a quick, skillful and versatile striker.

With Pavon, Bernard, Richarlison, Walcott plus Lookman and Calvert-Lewin, that would be immense pace, skill and ability for players to interchange positions.

If Barca do go and sign someone, we should also make a sneeky move for Dembele... Who knows, with our good relationship with them?

David Ellis
14 Posted 10/10/2018 at 03:01:23
A lot of players mentioned here don't convinced me. Rashford, Batshuayi, Martial... these players just haven't done it in the Premier League ª I'm not convinced they would do so if they played regularly.

It will probably be a decade before we get "another Lukaku" – it's very rare to have a striker like that... When was the last one we had, Lineker, Sharp?? – it was 30 years ago. So let's not get obsessed over the striker position; we are scoring goals.

I'd like to see an upgrade to what we have, but it needs to be a significant upgrade to be worthwhile and I think this might be tricky, and certainly something that can wait until the summer. I'm sure Brands is on it.

Victor Yu
15 Posted 10/10/2018 at 04:35:21
I certainly don't mind him as a backup but we can't rely on him as our #1 striker. We need someone like Lukaku upfront.
Alan J Thompson
16 Posted 10/10/2018 at 04:49:10
We've already signed our next striker and he's plying his trade in Turkey as he's not allowed to in Britain unless he's injured.

Henry, Henry Onyekuru.

Peter Thistle
17 Posted 10/10/2018 at 05:10:52
We'd be better off with 3 blind mice up front; the ones we got available are Championship level at best.
Mike Gaynes
18 Posted 10/10/2018 at 06:07:21
Alan J, sorry to disappoint you but Henry is not a striker. He plays wing almost exclusively. Much too small to be a striker in the Premier League. Same size as Walcott.
David Barks
19 Posted 10/10/2018 at 06:36:14
Sergio Aguero is 5 ft 8 in.
Gabriel Jesus is 5 ft 9 in.
Firmino is 5 ft 11 in.
Lacazette is 5 ft 9 in.
Sadio Mane is 5 ft 9 in.
Onyekuru is 5 ft 9 inches tall.

Not surprising that, as a young player, he plays out wide as an attacking player. But his size doesn't exclude him from being a striker. Henry started as a wide player. It's the player's style and speed and technical ability that matters in combination with the team's style of play, most importantly. Henry wasn't about size, it was pace and skill and the way the team played.
Kieran Fitzgerald
20 Posted 10/10/2018 at 06:44:57
The idea of Christian Benteke on loan has been in my head this week. I'm unsure about him as he could be absolute rubbish or just in need of a fresh start. Get him in on loan in January and feed him the chances we are creating at the moment. He will get more chances than he has been getting at Palace. A couple of goals could breathe new life into him.

He has shown over his time in the Premier League that there is a decent striker in him and that is what you would be taking a punt on. He is used to the Premier League and when in form has scored goals.

A loan move with an option to buy would suit us and him in the short term. Whether or not Palace would be prepared to loan him rather than sell (in their mind maybe get rid) is a different matter.

David Ellis
21 Posted 10/10/2018 at 07:13:39
Kieran, unfortunately Benteke's lost it. Palace fans think he's terrible. We should look elsewhere.
Tony Abrahams
22 Posted 10/10/2018 at 07:43:40
Looking at Tosun against Southampton, Kieran, and the way he kept trying to run the channels, then Silva must be asking him for more movement.

If this is the case, then Benteke has got even less “movement” than Cenk, which is probably something Silva has told Brands his next centre-forward must have in abundance.

Chris Watts
23 Posted 10/10/2018 at 07:50:50
I don't think Benkeke is going to take us to another level. We've been linked with Werner, Dolberg and Lozano before. Any of these three?
Ralph Basnett
24 Posted 10/10/2018 at 07:52:34
Jerome (5), Calvert-Lewin has scored once this season!!!!

Hardly prolific, considering last season he scored 1 in 32 games. He, as well as Tosun and Niasse, have to go – just not good enough.

Ian Bennett
25 Posted 10/10/2018 at 08:04:55
I can see us selling Niasse, and signing Welbeck for a cut price fee or Bosman. I am not saying Welbeck is the answer – as his injury track record isn't good enough. But I can see it happening.

Tosun is a willing player, but just lacks pace or physical dominance. I can't see that him and Sigurdsson can play together in a combination, as neither have the pace to get behind. Tosun with Bernard might be different.

I would break the bank for Rashford. Hopefully Mourinho hangs on, and he gets fed up of a bit-part role behind Lukuka, Martial and Sanchez. But I can't see the owners sanctioning a deal. The fans would kick off big style.

Other than him, there is just nothing decent about. Foreign players are just big gambles, and I am not sure we can spend big on that area without proof they can cut it in the Premier League.

Ryan Sydow
26 Posted 10/10/2018 at 08:13:32
Sometimes players just need to admit that certain clubs fit them better than others – think about Pienaar at Spurs versus Pienaar at Everton.

I think same can be said for Lukaku - now that he's seen the grass is not greener down the road could we get him back? (Would we want him back?)

Otherwise... bugger it – just go buy Killian Mbape! 😳

Jerome Shields
27 Posted 10/10/2018 at 08:15:16
Ralph #24,

You are right regarding the one goal. But at least he looked as if he wasn't spoonfed it like the Tosun goal and was getting shots on target, with some good positional play. I was trying to give him a chance, coming from the ranks. Better loaned out in my opinion.

Martin Nicholls
28 Posted 10/10/2018 at 08:52:42
I'd use Lookman to try and prise Timo Werner away from RB Leipzig.
Danny Broderick
29 Posted 10/10/2018 at 09:01:42
I'd have Welbeck. He'd be affordable, he'd get 15 - 20 goals a season, and is a bit of an all-rounder. His movement and pace is better than Tosun, and I could see him fitting in with our other players – he would definitely be an upgrade.

He might also be available. He's not first choice at Arsenal, I think his contract is running down. He'd jump at the chance to move back to the northwest and be first choice for us.

Dave Abrahams
30 Posted 10/10/2018 at 09:28:14
Ralph and Jeremy, I'm sure Calvert-Lewin scored against Swansea and Huddersfield and I'd be surprised if he didn't score more than just those two goals last season.
James Hughes
31 Posted 10/10/2018 at 09:34:27
Danny B #29,

Welbeck will get 15-20 goals a season, really? His best return is 9 goals in a season. As we seem to be good at ruining strikers, I can't see Welbeck turning it round with us.

Sam Hoare
32 Posted 10/10/2018 at 09:59:18
It strikes me that there are very few out-and-out strikers out there. A lot of wingers-slash-strikers or shadow strikers but very few out-and-out goalscorers in the Lukaku mold.

I think to be honest Silva wants someone who will press and move all over, creating room whilst also getting some goals themselves. Firmino is probably the best example of this in the Premier League. Richarlison could well be our best bet to emulate that, he works very hard, can win physical battles and has the pace and movement to get in behind.

I wonder if a large bid could get us any traction with Nabil Fekir. Or even Florian Thauvin who has a very impressive goals return over the last two years or so. Neither are out-and-out strikers but either could suit Silva's system and play in any of the front 4 positions, much like Richie.

Len Hawkins
33 Posted 10/10/2018 at 10:32:11
If Tosun went out on loan to a south coast club Bournemouth, Brighton, Dover Athletic I'm sure his Channel running could be improved (so long as he runs east to west; north to south would be the end of him).

Niasse is Niasse a complete brainfart by Brown Shoes, the only way he'd improve is take his locker off him and put his gear in a cardboard box in the lawnmower shed at Finch Farm.

All this "he's only scored 3 goals in 573 appearances" is meaningless Joe Harper scored 573 in 3 appearances in Scotland but couldn't score on a night out with Rooney when he came here.

I don't know the answer, other than, as I've said before, get a priest down to Goodison and exorcse the place – it is obviously cursed.

Andrew Clare
34 Posted 10/10/2018 at 11:10:55
If a side has 4 or 5 players in their team who can score goals, is it then necessary to sign an out-and-out striker? A fast mobile skillful forward who can score added to the players we already have would be more of an asset than a traditional striker.

All these names mentioned, like Welbeck and Benteke etc, are just not good enough and they are the wrong type of player. I am sure Brands and Silva know exactly the type of player they want and, judging by their signings so far, we won't be disappointed.

We want a fast mobile attack that can break at speed; what we don't want is a lumbering striker that slows down play.

Amit Vithlani
35 Posted 10/10/2018 at 11:24:14
We have a very good quartet of forwards and attacking midfielders (Signurdsson, Bernard, Richarlison, Walcott) who appeared to play well together.

I would give this quartet a run of games before January. Collectively they have around 12 goals and 3 assists in all competitions, which is a good return. If they can sustain this, we are looking at 50-odd goals and assists in all competition, which should provide the foundation for a good season.

I have been disappointed by our efforts to replace Lukaku and I hope we restrict ourselves in January to searching for and buying 1 established centre-forward from a high-calibre league.

No more hot prospects or punts from inferior leagues, please. Timo Werner and Nabil Fekir, as suggested, would be superb additions, but I am fearful even such targets will be beyond us. Brands will have a real job unearthing someone who fits the bill and wants to join.

Until then, our hopes for goals will surely lie in our quartet continuing to gel together. Perhaps their continued good form might hold the key to a Fekir or Werner wanting to be part of a very good forward combination.

Drew O'Neall
36 Posted 10/10/2018 at 11:36:41
I don't care if our centre-forward doesn't score all season as long as we win all our games.

Tosun has come under pressure, mainly from fans, for not scoring but, if he links up play and gives the others the platform, that's fine by me.

I think it was unfair and the incorrect decision to drop him when Richarlison came back from suspension and I believe a couple of games together would have had him firing again.

Whomever we play in the centre-forward position must have those key skills I mention – Richarlison's hold-up play is superb for a winger primarily (Pienaar had that ability too, perversely for a wide man and one of relatively short stature) – and I think Tosun can do that job.

John Hammond
37 Posted 10/10/2018 at 11:50:53
I think Niasse definitely has to go. I'd keep Tosun and see if we can bring in someone a level up on a sneaky loan or something. We need to think about injuries and suspensions that will inevitably happen.

Danny #29: Welbeck has hit double figures 3 times in his whole career across all competitions with his highest being 12. He's also missed more than 80 games for Arsenal through injury since the 14-15 season. I don't think he's the answer.

Brian Harrison
38 Posted 10/10/2018 at 12:47:36
Thankfully, as long as Richarlison stays fit, then we don't have a problem, as he demonstrated he can play the main striker role as he showed at Leicester. Not only did he score but he ran Morgan ragged; eventually he got sent off for his aggressive tactics.

There is also another reason why Richarlison needs to play the main striker role: if he goes back to wide left then where does Bernard play?

Now I think he can play in Sigurdsson's position but why would you move Sigurdsson from a position he is making his own. Yes the option is there for Sigurdsson to play in Tom Davies role, by why would you move 2 players in Bernard and Sigurdsson to accommodate a very average striker in Tosun?

Sam Hoare
39 Posted 10/10/2018 at 13:23:18
Brian @38 agreed. Currently it looks clear that the attacking quartet that started against Leicester is our strongest combination and should be played together as much as possible. The questions will come when injury or suspension strike or if one of them falls out of form.

For me, Walcott runs pretty hot and cold and is not the future. I'd love to see Lookman given a start with the other 3 and see how he does. I think with a run of games his trickery and two footedness could become very useful. He showed at Leipzig that he is capable of bringing end-product to the table and could be the real deal if his attitude is spot on.

Brian Harrison
40 Posted 10/10/2018 at 14:06:23
Sam @39,

I also think Lookman is a talent but, despite Silva singling him out as the present and the future at Everton, it doesn't seem to have appeased Lookman. He started the cup game against Southampton and looked very exciting in the first half. But, when he was substituted after an hour, Schneiderlin put his hand out to Lookman who just brushed it aside and ran off.

Didn't look like the actions of somebody who wanted to stay and impress Silva... Yes, he can be disappointed at coming off but his behaviour raises the question for me: Does he want to be here?

Alan J Thompson
41 Posted 10/10/2018 at 14:11:30
Mike (#18); Would Henry Onyekuru play wide left, as do Richarlison and Bernard, or wide right, like Walcott, and could he adapt to playing in the middle like.... oh, yeah, Richarlison and Walcott?

That'll be bloody Walsh and Koeman again then.

Jay Wood

42 Posted 10/10/2018 at 15:03:20
This is a bit of a crossover with something that was raised on another thread yesterday: Could the Everton fan base accept having a 'Number 9 / striker / centre forward' (take your pick of the label) that doesn't score many goals?

It's actually something that has long been evolving in football.

More than 20-odd years ago, the manager of Brazil's World Cup winning team of 1994, Carlos Alberto Parreira, predicted 4-6-0 as the formation of the future.

At that World Cup, he relied on two (relatively) diminutive players, Romario and Beto as his forwards. Increasingly down the years, you see more and more players of their stature and skill-set filling the slot 'traditionally' filled by a player with a towering physique (such as Duncan Ferguson).

It makes sense. The speed, fitness levels and technique required at the highest level of professional football today demand a more 'universal' player – one with many skill-sets who can play many roles - rather than a 'specialist' player who is only suited to one position.

Everton's front four on Saturday offered this 'Brave New World' of modern day football. It is becoming increasingly hard to 'label' players by the traditional names given to positions they occupy on the pitch because they interchange their roles in-game so much.

Take Gylfi Sigurdsson as an example. I really like how Silva is playing him this season. He is not playing as a 'Number 10' (as that role is broadly understood), nor as an out-and-out second striker to whoever plays the 'Number 9 – striker – centre forward' role.

He is playing more centrally than last season, for sure, and his default position is more advanced than a '#10'. He is interchanging nicely with the supposed '#9', and yet – because he has such a good engine – at times he is getting down and dirty helping out the defence and can be found in central midfield.

The front 4 at Leicester – the first time they have played together, remember – has the potential to be hugely potent. It contains speed, technique, good passing, an eye for a goal and ALL can interchange with the other, which is going to cause confusion with opposition defences.

I would guess this is very much the direction Silva wishes to take the team. As such, distributing the goals around the team (as we are now doing this season) rather than being over-reliant on one player to get the goals (as was the case with Lukaku) could pay dividends.

* For anyone interested, here is a good article from The Guardian by Jonathon Wilson (some of you may be familiar with his work, Inverting the Pyramid – a history of the evolution of tactics), entitled:

'The End of Forward Thinking'

Mike Gaynes
43 Posted 10/10/2018 at 16:04:26
David #19, I didn't say too SHORT to play striker. I said too SMALL. He's skinny as a rail. The others you mentioned are muscular physical specimens, or thick like Romario (who may have been a bit short, Jay, but certainly wasn't diminutive). Not Henry.

Alan J #41, yes, he plays mostly left wing but switches to the right, and goes to the middle to chase long balls over the top. And I just don't agree with your Koeman / Walsh comment, because I don't think there's such a thing as having too much talent in a club, especially a club like ours. And this kid has meltdown speed.

Matthew Williams
44 Posted 10/10/2018 at 16:29:08
Give him chances and he will score, folks. He needs pace around him and decent service from both flanks.

He's a poacher and will fire us the goals... play to his strengths, FFS.

Peter Laing
45 Posted 10/10/2018 at 17:02:17
I echo the comments on here – Cenk Tosun just isn't good enough. Along with Oumar Niasse, they are not the players to get Everton challenging. Both hardworking guys but clearly lacking in quality.

Brands will be looking to move on the next raft of players who are seen to be surplus to requirements, Tosun and Niasse will be near if not at the top of that list.

The money squandered on sub-par signings has been truly breathtaking in recent seasons, something that Moshiri has looked to arrest with the shrewd appointment of Brands. We are in a state of evolution and patience will be needed.

Sam Hoare
46 Posted 10/10/2018 at 17:12:55
Brian @40, it's true: I saw that and it did concern me. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but that only goes so far and so long. We don't want anyone who isn't on board with the project and prepared to work hard to the manager's orders.

Time will tell... but I have a feeling that, if Lookman leaves, we may regret it in years to come.

Paul Kossoff
47 Posted 10/10/2018 at 17:27:51
Let him go. I doubt we paid anywhere near the £20 million quoted. If he goes back to Turkey, it was probably more like a loan deal. If it didn't work out, then he goes back for nothing; if he was a success, than the fee is paid.
Kevin Prytherch
48 Posted 10/10/2018 at 17:31:15
Ralph 24,

Make that 8 in 44... Not 1 in 32.

Alan J Thompson
49 Posted 10/10/2018 at 17:34:35
Mike (#43); I'm sure Ademola will be pleased to hear that but given Dowell seems more left-sided, Tosun doesn't seem to believe he's going anywhere, there's a few like Bowler to come, and the likes of Bolasie on loan, then too much talent might be tempted to sort itself out at some stage.
Soren Moyer
50 Posted 10/10/2018 at 18:09:23
We will replace all these ordinary players with quality gradually. Might take 2 transfer windows though!
Alan J Thompson
51 Posted 10/10/2018 at 18:14:28
Soren (#48); The conversation with Mr Gaynes concerned Richarlison, Bernard, Walcott, Onyekuru and those players in my #47.

Which ordinary players were you thinking of replacing?

Mike Gaynes
52 Posted 10/10/2018 at 18:26:43
Alan J #47, it will definitely sort itself out, always does. The best of the bunch will emerge, either to become mainstays or perhaps (sad but true) to be bought by bigger clubs. Those who aren't good enough will be moved on (a la Bolasie).

I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Dowell is relevant. And as for Tosun, if his productivity doesn't improve he won't have a choice about his long-term future with Everton – it'll end when we land somebody better.

Loved your response to Soren.

Soren Moyer
53 Posted 10/10/2018 at 19:06:06
Alan J #49 I was commenting on the original post about Tosun, and Niasse. As I thought this thread was about THAT!
Andy Meighan
54 Posted 10/10/2018 at 19:14:01
Benteke... Welbeck... Them two purveyors of taking chances???

Honestly, I swear some of our so-called fans haven't got a clue. It's a wonder Peter Crouch's name hasn't been thrown in the mix.

Laughable — absolutely laughable!

Martin Berry
55 Posted 10/10/2018 at 19:37:57
Tosun will come good; he is a finisher who is having a dry spell.
Peter Gorman
56 Posted 10/10/2018 at 20:00:26
I agree with Martin above and think people may be reading too much into this dry spell.

Tosun's finishing rate last season was more indicative of his talent, though his all-round 'game' could probably do with some improvement. He's not yet found his touch this season but that could have as much to do with adapting to Silva's ways as a downturn in confidence.

When the confidence returns (or I should say 'if' as nothing is certain in this game) we should see fewer comments about him being "just not good enough".

A patient lot us fans.

Dave Abrahams
57 Posted 10/10/2018 at 20:14:58
Peter (53), I didn't see anything special in Tosun last season, to be honest, when he scored 5 goals in 14 games. I don't know how many of those appearances were as a sub, to be honest.

He has scored one goal in seven this season, the same as Calvert-Lewin, I think he will be back in Turkey in one of the next transfer windows, probably sold at a loss.

Paul Kossoff
58 Posted 10/10/2018 at 20:16:18
We have to remember even established players go through a lean spell. Benteke, for example, has been around the Premier League long enough but even he has been woeful for a long time.

A striker is just that, he puts the chances away and we need no more from them than that. Hopefully Tosun will come good but it has to be sooner rather than later.

Clive Rogers
59 Posted 10/10/2018 at 20:36:36
Tosun does have ability, but it is his lack of pace that lets him down, something that should have been spotted before he was signed.

Calvert-Lewin does need to go out on loan as he has lost confidence in front of goal.

Alan #47, Bolasie has lost his place and been dropped to the bench at Villa. He won't be coming back, M&M have decided he is not good enough and is 30 in May.

Andy Crooks
60 Posted 10/10/2018 at 20:49:41
Jay @ 42, that is a cracking post. I have been wary of Sigurdsson, concentrating more on his limitations and his price. However, I think that the best thing about this site is not about having your views endorsed, but challenged.

He and Bernard CAN play together.

Ralph Basnett
61 Posted 11/10/2018 at 07:26:44
Unfortunately, Jerome this is Calvert-Lewin's third season up front with nothing prolific to show. We use him to hopefully give us the 20+ plus we need to keep us on the tails of the top 8, this is never going to happen.

Whilst I appreciate that he does get into some good positions etc etc, I would rather have a bone idle Lukaku type that just does that old fashion thing of scoring!!!

Near misses and effort do not win points; scoring more goals than the opposition do.

Tony Abrahams
62 Posted 11/10/2018 at 08:07:07
Pre-conceived? Or has Calvert-Lewin really led the line on a consistent basis, over the last three seasons?

I reckon he's played out-wide as much as he has played down the middle... so, for this reason, I don't understand the comparison with a young Graeme Sharp, who could have never played out-wide or run up like this kid.

Just my opinion, but how many people would have predicted a great career for Sharpy, when he first started making his way at Everton?

Ralph Basnett
63 Posted 11/10/2018 at 08:13:08
I don't really want to start answering individuals as it detracts from the subject but his stats show that Calvert-Lewin is at 32 appearances with 4 goals in season 2017-18 and this season 8 with 1. Now if people are happy with this return then so be it.

I should note that these are Premier League stats as I think if a player scores a dozen goals in one season against inferior teams in cups this would not give a true reflection of his ability in the Premier League.

For Kevin (#48), Swansea are a Championship club and as such, Calvert-Lewin could not have scored against them, unless the club has seen the light and sold him to a club at the level he is probably best suited – not a personal attack on him but my opinion of his standard based on stats.

Martin Berry
64 Posted 11/10/2018 at 08:29:56
Jay #42,

Great post and a very interesting concept of what could be happening at Everton too.

Kevin Prytherch
65 Posted 11/10/2018 at 09:05:35
8 in 44 was in all competitions.
4 from 32 in the Premier League is still better than the 1 in 32 you first quoted.

The fact that he can score in cup competitions against lower teams would suggest it is more to do with composure than finishing at the moment. He can score when undoubtedly given a bit more time and space in cups, but snatches a bit in the Premier League. This ability comes with age, there are very few examples of people younger than Calvert-Lewin who have that composure to score regularly at such a young age.

Imagine a couple great strikers who could have been written off at 21...

Kane 5 in 13
Shearer 9 in 77

Calvert-Lewin is doing well for his age.

Kevin Prytherch
66 Posted 11/10/2018 at 09:19:43
Furthermore, Ralph – you quote Lukaku as a suggestion of a 20+ striker we need.

Lukaku has only ever broken the 20-goal barrier once in the Premier League. I presume therefore, that you are using inferior cups as your argument for a 20+ striker.

Indeed, aged 22, Lukaku played 36 times in the Premier League (pretty much all starting and all up front) and only scored 6 more than Calvert-Lewin did last season.

Like you said – stats.

Simon Smith
67 Posted 11/10/2018 at 09:27:38
Immobile at Lazio appears to bang them in consistently. Maybe a pipe dream, but may as well aim high.
Ralph Basnett
68 Posted 11/10/2018 at 13:05:44
Okay I said I wouldn't but here goes Kevin:

To quote you Lukaku has only broke the 20+ once, totally agree, but all other seasons guaranteed double figures and close to 20.

For your Kane (5 in 13, which I believe is a good ratio) and Shearer (9 in 77, cannot find a season that long), I will give you:

Fowler aged 17 28/12
18 42/25
19 38/28

Owen Aged 17 36/18
18 30/18
19 27/11

Dean Aged 17 27/27
18 38/32

Last season, head to head, Lukaku & Calvert-Lewin

Lukaku 16 from 34.
Calvert-Lewin 4 from 32.

That is a difference of 12! Lukaku for me every day of the week.

I'm sure we can both produce stats to counter each others argument. Suffice to say I am not happy that Everton believe Calvert-Lewin is the way forward and you seem to be so I will leave it at that.

Thank You

Tony Abrahams
69 Posted 11/10/2018 at 14:20:30
All great players on that list, Ralph. Owen, he was touching world class at 18, I think, and Fowler, was probably an even better footballer than Michael Owen.

They both peaked early, I hope Calvert-Lewin, just peaks, and although it's only my opinion, I don't reckon we will see great longevity in Lukaku's career either.

The way forward is to get better players, which looks like it's happening since Brands & Silva came to the club. It's interesting to see there is talk of both Niasse and Tosun leaving, but no such talk of the same thing happening to Calvert-Lewin.

We all want better, but sometimes that just happens with time, which some people don't seem to have anymore.

Kevin Prytherch
70 Posted 11/10/2018 at 14:58:45
Ralph - those stats are at 21 years old.
Not in 1 season.

Kane had only played 13 Premier League games at 21.

As Tony said, Owen and Fowler peaked earlier and were finished earlier.

Kane and Shearer started banging them in around 22 years old, Shearer lasted a lot longer than Fowler or Owen.

Calvert-Lewin is at the age where he needs to start improving, but to write him off with a similar (if not better) goals ratio as Kane or Shearer at a comparable age would be folly.

Tony Everan
71 Posted 11/10/2018 at 15:34:02
Jay #42,

All things must be considered to create a winning formula.

A centre-forward who doesn't score goals regularly but is pivotal to his other 3 forwards scoring every week deserves careful thought. Like all the systems we try, the proof will be in the pudding.

I think it is a cop-out.

It is making me think that the ‘centre-forward' then is more like a central defender playing No 9 with his back to goal. Shielding and holding up play linking with the midfield and getting it wide quick. The ultimate centre-forward for doing it was the awesome Didier Drogba when playing for Chelsea.

As well as all the nuts and bolts and hard work, he was no shirker on scoring duties. That's one of the major reasons they won a lot of trophies during his time.

Can Brands find us a Drogba?

Kevin Prytherch
72 Posted 11/10/2018 at 15:49:27
Interestingly, Drogba at the age of 21, had 2 Ligue 2 appearance and 0 goals to his name.

He didn't score a top flight goal until he was 23.

He'd have never made it at Everton with the “If you're not a world beater at 20, you're never going to be” brigade.

Ralph Basnett
73 Posted 11/10/2018 at 16:01:18
So what we are saying, Kevin, is that, if we score regularly at a young age, we fade early?

Owen had 10 good years of scoring and Fowler 7. Whereas Kane and Shearer started later so lasted longer.

Can't wait for March 2019, Calvert-Lewin is 22 and we have Liverpool and Chelsea.

Any talk of Niasse and Tosun leaving is only in the media, the same papers that said we are bidding for Shearer etc.

Interesting that there is no talk of Calvert-Lewin leaving as no-one has bidded or shown an interest in him... I wonder why?

Kevin Prytherch
74 Posted 11/10/2018 at 16:15:08
Ralph – as a generalised comment I would say yes. Many strikers (not all) who start scoring early also finish scoring earlier. You can add Rooney to your list as well, started scoring regularly in his late teens, was generally considered finished as a striker by 31/32.

Calvert-Lewin might not make it; however, going by your reckoning if we had Shearer, Kane and Drogba in our Youth system. You'd have been saying the same about them at 21 years old - not good enough. By the age of 24 you'd have been looking pretty silly.

Calvert-Lewin would have suitors if he was up for sale. It's generally considered he's not up for sale so there aren't any suitors. You don't see Sigurdsson, Coleman, Keane, Gueye etc linked with moves do you? It's because they aren't considered to be up for sale.

Give him time, he may or may not surprise you.

Tony Abrahams
75 Posted 11/10/2018 at 16:17:02
Probably because they know that Everton wouldn't want to sell him at this stage of his career, Ralph?
Mike Gaynes
76 Posted 11/10/2018 at 16:21:46
Ralph #73,

"Interesting that there is no talk of Calvert-Lewin leaving as noone has bidded or shown an interest in him... wonder why?"

You are mistaken: Dominic Calvert-Lewin to snub Bournemouth to fight for his Everton future.

And how do you know there haven't been more? Just because nothing has shown up in the papers? Inquiries occur all the time that are never reported.

Clive Rogers
77 Posted 11/10/2018 at 18:14:00
Kevin #74, actually Shearer got 13 goals for Southampton in the old First Division, season 91-92, when he was 21. He was very much in demand subsequently.
Tony Abrahams
78 Posted 11/10/2018 at 19:24:33
How old was Shearer when he made his debut for Southampton?
Kieran Kinsella
79 Posted 11/10/2018 at 19:27:16
Iain Dowie was about 28 by the time he became a Pro. Roger Milla didn't do much till 40. Plenty of time for Calvert-Lewin over the next few decades to improve
Dave Abrahams
80 Posted 11/10/2018 at 19:35:43
Tony (78),

Shearer was 17; in his first full game for Southampton (not his debut) he scored a hat-trick versus Arsenal.

He was not a habitual scorer in his first couple of seasons but was a well respected forward who helped Southampton with many of their goals, and it was obvious he was going to one of the bigger clubs in the near future. He turned down Alex Ferguson and Man Utd when he signed for Blackburn, and, I think, when he joined his home town club Newcastle.

A great goalscorer on the field; a boring bastard off it and on TV.

Lawrence Green
81 Posted 11/10/2018 at 19:36:04
Tony #78,

Shearer was born in August 1970 and made his debut in March 1988 against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. A fortnight later, he scored a hat-trick against Arsenal at the Dell, thus breaking Jimmy Greaves's 30-year record. Shearer was 17 years and 240 days when he bagged the hat-trick.

Tommy Carter
82 Posted 11/10/2018 at 21:17:36
If Besiktas – or any other team, for that matter – can give us anything near £20m in January, I think we should accept.

I think Tosun has quality and is a good finisher. But he lacks the all round game that is needed for a top Premier League striker. He's a 12-goal-a-season man in this league at best. If we want to progress, it will be without Cenk unfortunately. His attitude and effort have been first class and he should be commended for that.

I think the board should explore every possibility of trying to do something for Marcus Rashford. This guy is super talented and Man Utd are not giving him the role his talent deserves. He will look to move and, whilst he may have many options, we should put our best case forward at being the one he selects.

Kevin Prytherch
83 Posted 11/10/2018 at 21:23:13
Clive (77)

Shearer was 21 going on 22 when he netted 13.

It would equate to Calvert-Lewin this season.

Tony Abrahams
84 Posted 11/10/2018 at 21:44:24
Thanks, Lawrence and Dave. I knew he made his debut when he was a young kid, and to score a hat-trick at 17 in the top league showed his undoubted ability.

Maybe Owen and Fowler scored more goals when they were younger because they played for a decent team?

Shearer only played for a mid-table Southampton, and Calvert-Lewin has only played for a similar team at Everton so far in his fledgling career, and this is one of the main reasons I don't think it's wise to write this kid off just yet.

Ralph Basnett
85 Posted 12/10/2018 at 06:59:03
Kevin (83), we all look forward to DCL hitting 13 by your reckoning.
Kevin Prytherch
86 Posted 12/10/2018 at 07:38:56

Stop trying to put words into people’s mouths.

Point to the occasions where I have said that he will score 13 this season.

Oh right - you can’t.

Can’t win an argument based on facts, so make stuff up.

Terry Farrell
87 Posted 12/10/2018 at 08:40:56
Cenk is a goalscorer but does lack a yard of pace. Calvert-Lewin is potential and scores regularly for England U21s. He ran Vincent Company ragged last season away at Man City. He is physical fast has a real chance of making it at this level but only time will tell how good he becomes.

Time is in precious short supply with many football brains on here and that applies to the respect afforded to our new manager and Tom Davies.

Ralph Basnett
88 Posted 12/10/2018 at 12:52:59
Oops, touched a nerve Kevin.

To quote your 83:

"Shearer was 21 going on 22 when he netted 13.

It would equate to Calvert-Lewin this season."

You said it, I just repeated it, then quoted it back at you!!!!!

I was also never arguing, never argue about football, I make my comments to get considered replies.

Take a chill pill and don't get personal.

Eric Paul
89 Posted 12/10/2018 at 23:10:41
And how old was Rashford tonight?
Steve Ferns
90 Posted 12/10/2018 at 23:32:44
Kieran, Roger Milla did a lot before he was 30. He was a legend in Africa. Let's not be ignorant and think that, just because it took until he was 40 for Cameroon to qualify for the World Cup that he did nothing until he was 40.

His career is an interesting one and Mark Gleason (South African based football journalist and African football historian) has written extensively about Roger Milla. They effectively brought him out of retirement for the World Cup as a token gesture for a legendary player. He repaid them by rolling back the years and producing his most memorable and famous goals complete with trademark celebration.

He then kept his career going long enough to play in the next World Cup and hung his boots up for the final time after it after scoring as a 42-year-old and the oldest outfield player in a World Cup (still a record). He was recognised ahead of even George Weah or Abidi Pele (father of the Ayew brothers currently playing in the Premier League) as the greatest African footballer.

Steve Ferns
91 Posted 12/10/2018 at 23:50:04
Peak Roger Milla

Click the link and scroll down to see footage of a late 20s Roger Milla in action as he twice won the French Cup, scoring in one final, both times whilst still in his 20s. The guy was clearly a player.

Don Alexander
92 Posted 12/10/2018 at 23:58:41
Steve, do you mean the late 1920s?
Don Alexander
93 Posted 13/10/2018 at 01:37:16
More seriously, Cenk is 27 years old. To me, that means he's now at last at a club where he's just about still able to do one of three things.

At best, he'll be able to improve in order to win a better contract from whomever for whatever's left of his playing career, and that's what I'd like.

Second, he'll unsuccessfully bust a gut in trying to achieve improvement whilst with us (which will be an obvious disappointment all round).

And at worst, he'll fanny about for the duration of his contract whilst being paid a salary he could only have dreamed about two years ago (and that to me will mirror what I've seen in so many of our signings in the Kenwright years).

Over to you, Cenk (and your agent, of course)!

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