We realise that there is an appetite among some members to talk about these issues so we're putting them in this sideshow thread on the General Forum, at least as long as things remain civil!
Note: Because the posts were removed, the references to post numbers will be inaccurate.
Reader Comments (70)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 13/12/2019 at 14:47:55
It's a sad state of State Affairs, when someone is less popular than the Buffoon that is Boris Johnson! Basically the Labour Party knew they were backing a three legged race-horse against a donkey but failed to elect a more suitable leader, and get their manifesto in order.
2 Posted 13/12/2019 at 14:52:00
As a natural born Scotsman you can do the full 'Dad's Army Private Fraser' for us.
"Dooomed, aye tells ye! We're awl gonna die!"
Announcing this on Friday 13th can only end one way! Mark my words!
3 Posted 13/12/2019 at 15:02:03
Sorry lads just felt like throwing a grenade in.
4 Posted 13/12/2019 at 15:03:25
Surely a damning indictment of Labour, who look about as well organised as Everton
5 Posted 13/12/2019 at 15:13:13
Sometimes the social media consensus does not reflect the general consencous
6 Posted 13/12/2019 at 15:16:41
In 2020 we can look forward to a right-wing Tory government with a thumping majority, the RS being champions of Europe and winners of the Premier League. We can probably look forward to Moyes returning.
I might hide in a fridge until it all blows over.
7 Posted 13/12/2019 at 15:22:58
If that is your idea of a buffoon, we could do with a few in charge of our club!
8 Posted 13/12/2019 at 15:40:58
10 Posted 13/12/2019 at 15:56:52
11 Posted 13/12/2019 at 16:21:38
"Two things I hate - RS and Tories"
I agree with you about the RS !!!
But fuck me - you"d rather have That twat Corbyn in charge ?
The man is a COMPLETE PRICK and so is that other twat Mcdonell
12 Posted 13/12/2019 at 16:22:48
13 Posted 13/12/2019 at 16:40:53
Shame that by then most of us won't be able to afford to attend or will have been called up to deal with the Troubles in Ireland or patrolling the Scottish border.
It really is a spectacular feat to find worse leadership than us but by Christ Labour managed it in spades.
14 Posted 13/12/2019 at 16:52:49
A buffoon indeed, but a very clever player, so let's just hope his trade deal with Donald, brings back the good times for Liverpool, which is obviously the first Port-of-call, once the ships start sailing past Bramley-Moore, along the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey!
Get Donald, Boris & Bill, to open our new stadium, and then put the three amigos on a slow boat to North Korea.
15 Posted 13/12/2019 at 17:01:04
I am amazed there do not appear to be any decent politicians left in the civilsed world but thereagin when it cost hundreds of millions for a campaign I guess that opens the door for corruption.
Oh for a modern day Bessie Braddock.
Oh and good news on the planning application but still a long way to go.
Manager situation has gone quiet!!
16 Posted 13/12/2019 at 17:12:20
I am hoping that this planning news is PR to keep us all happy as they are having trouble getting a Manager, which may give us more time to see what Big Dunc has in his locker. Bexit.
17 Posted 13/12/2019 at 18:45:25
Witch hunt? This clown literally takes dictation from Vladimir Putin (publicly kissing his ass in gratitude), and what we've learned about his actively trying to poison the 2020 election would never have come out if it hadn't been for the impeachment process.
And as for getting things done, the fact is the Democratic House has passed and sent to the Republican Senate over 400 bills. Laws and policies, just like you said. The Senate has acted on exactly zero of them. Never debated them, let alone brought them up for a vote. None. McConnell's sole priority has been stacking the federal court system with their judges, qualified or not. The ones doing nothing for the American people are the reds, not the blues. But you'll never hear a word of that from the Trumpies.
As for Bleach Boy winning in a landslide... stock up on ketchup, mate, because you're gonna have to dine on those words. The American people ultimately have no use for those who don't put America first -- and who line their personal pockets with millions of our tax dollars.
18 Posted 13/12/2019 at 19:03:08
19 Posted 13/12/2019 at 19:11:15
20 Posted 13/12/2019 at 19:13:11
21 Posted 13/12/2019 at 19:27:16
Stan (48) - Fox News is basically state-sponsored propaganda. It's like something out of Orwell. They're actually pushing the idea that Trump should be eligible for a third term if impeachment fails.
Anyway, I'm sure the rest of our British friends love to hear a debate about American politics on an Everton site, so... Bramley-Moore Dock! Woo-hoo!
22 Posted 13/12/2019 at 19:27:23
23 Posted 13/12/2019 at 19:47:34
Boris, Trump... they're globalists, crypto-one-world-government puppets. The left is the same, so no matter who gets in, the agenda is the same: globalism and centralisation of power. I believe they want a world war to traumatise the survivors into some dystopian locked down nightmare... As you may know, I'm in Latvia, where there is endless propaganda from Russia about NATO and vice versa... Only yesterday, I saw a headline in "Vesti" (a Moscow mouthpiece newspaper) proclaiming NATO to be "brainless" / "headless", which may be connected with the news that a huge US led exercise is planned for Europe in the spring, simulating a surge of American troops eastward from Germany to head off a surprise Russian invasion.
Then there are the regular scrambles of jets overhead, rushing to intercept Russian flights down the Baltic coast... Being in a frontline country, so to speak, makes it seem so much more real, you know, when all this talk of preparing for war with Russia comes up. The Russians, though, are on another level when it comes to talk of war; they pretty much accept it as a done deal and it's normal to see articles detailing projected casualty figures in a nuclear exchange. It's all enough to make me want to be a prepper... and to get out of Latvia ASAP.
24 Posted 13/12/2019 at 20:01:30
The first half of the 20th century appears to be the most violent in history in terms of per capita deaths in wars. In contrast, the second half of the 20th century and after appears to be the most peaceful. The media would have you think that things are getting worse. But I certainly fail to see that.
25 Posted 14/12/2019 at 11:05:50
Still, London, as always, will look good. Ever been to Windsor?
26 Posted 14/12/2019 at 11:06:09
27 Posted 14/12/2019 at 11:22:25
I fear for the poorest and most vulnerable members of our country as this government will not waste any opportunity to stick it to them as they have done for the last 9 years and working with these people on a daily basis, I have only seen things get worse and worse over the last 17 years and fear the worst is still to come.
28 Posted 14/12/2019 at 11:43:03
29 Posted 14/12/2019 at 11:43:44
The debt level of just over 60% of GDP in 2010 was no great issue. In the previous 250 years the debt level had in 80% of that time been above 60% of GDP. The US and Japanese debt levels have been above 100% and 200% of GDP respectively. Our EU neighbours (Germany included) have been carrying debt levels in the 80% and well above. The tories have used the debt "crisis" to justify its austerity programme (shrinkage of the state) and "solved" the debt level by taking it to 85% of GDP - hence the switch a couple years ago from talking about debt to talking about deficit.
Still Brexit will strengthen the economy!!! I weep.
30 Posted 14/12/2019 at 11:44:59
31 Posted 14/12/2019 at 11:49:20
33 Posted 14/12/2019 at 13:55:10
Look at the results; that's what happens when you have a credible alternative that can attract voters beyond his/her base.
34 Posted 14/12/2019 at 13:57:22
BIG thanks for the Daily Mash link on the other thread. You're right it wasn't on my radar. Another great site bookmarked!
The very 1st story was a cracker:
'New MP for Stoke-on-Trent realises she has to live there'
I fancy I'll be working my way through a few more before tomorrow's game.
35 Posted 14/12/2019 at 14:03:18
Labour lost its soul in the mid-90s. We used to be members of the Labour Party until then, and threw the towel in when they got rid of the 1918 Clause IV. There seemed to be a lot of bullshitters at Party meetings.
The SNP have a strong clear message which they've stuck to, and I think people want to see clear leadership.
36 Posted 14/12/2019 at 15:58:00
37 Posted 14/12/2019 at 15:59:58
38 Posted 14/12/2019 at 16:10:15
39 Posted 14/12/2019 at 16:38:09
Sentiment and good intentions cannot be fore filled and made good from the sidelines. Once and once only in my life time have Labour produced a professional, clinical winning election machine.
The parallels with Everton are sadly very real.
40 Posted 14/12/2019 at 17:47:25
41 Posted 14/12/2019 at 21:57:31
On the bus back, I also spoke to a guy who had worked 30 years on building sites in Philadelphia, and nearly everyone he has worked with voted for Trump and will vote for him again.
It really does not matter what Trump or Johnson say or do, they will get votes which are not based on the normal issue analysis, but on the prejudicial hunches of those that casts their votes.
In the past 10 years, people have got that used to toughing it out against the system, by not accepting its limitations on them, that they vote for leaders who do the same. The problem is, eventually you have to know where the limit actually is. There will be limits and to push against them will end badly, when people are unprepared for actual reality.
Personally I am giving politics, politicians and political commentators a miss. They just waste time and it is better to mind one's own business first.
42 Posted 14/12/2019 at 22:24:50
Go walk the dog or just walk yourself, preferably in a park with some scenery. There will be limits to the cock-ups that the Everton Board and the Government can make. Everton will have to change while they like it or not and so will the country.
Everton will stay on the Premier League and build a new stadium and the Government will have to come up with a fudge as the reality of trade agreement negotiations hit them. The whole gigantic thing will be a waste of time.
As for the Labour Party. Out of frustration and despair, both transient things, they will be reborn with new words and new power.
In reality, prophecy is an affliction of the articulate, as all ToffeeWebbers know deep down.
Everton are a big Club.
43 Posted 14/12/2019 at 22:49:37
New words and new power? I was out of the country and missed the furore over Clause IV referenced above, Part 4 of which originally said:
To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.
The so-called "new words and new power" that emboldened New Labour in 1995 under Tony Blair were, in comparison, this meaningless waffle from the man himself:
The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect.
I listened to Richard Burgon being 'interviewed'... what a total bellend he is, talking utter drivel. It's faintly hilarious that the hardcore labour party have this death wish at the polls. You still have plenty of them denying that Corbyn was the issue...
Just like the Democrats in the USA, they have to find a new and charismatic leader that has at least some popularity and appeal or they will not stand a chance.
44 Posted 14/12/2019 at 23:14:26
Also, when the UK leaves the EU, it will be more difficult for Everton to pick up bargain-priced EU footballers who are not playing for their respective EU countries on a regular basis when the freedom of movement ends.
45 Posted 14/12/2019 at 23:21:10
46 Posted 14/12/2019 at 23:28:40
It's a stack of events, but let's keep belief and hope, that we can progress as a club.
Reality is I see that many of the lads of the 70s, and 80s, are as fit as fiddles, drink like fish, sell sand to the Arabs, in our jobs, but we can't wait for ever.
47 Posted 14/12/2019 at 00:18:14
That said, it isn't the fault of the electorate. It's the fault of decades-long under investment in education and massive interference by both Con and Lab governments into teaching in schools itself.
Many Brexit supporters saw the EU as the enemy, courtesy of the written media in particular - BoJo having for well over ten years baselessly criticised it, as that bastard Murdoch did in the Scum - rather than the Tory austerity chicanery or the Tory-lite Blair politics we've endured since 1997.
I strongly suspect that unless BoJo metamorphosizes into Jesus H Christ himself we, the British public, will soon be very much regretting casting off the so-called chains of the EU, as they're replaced by the floggings we'll take from other countries that realise how needy we've become to trade with them.
48 Posted 15/12/2019 at 01:08:10
The class war that was dying on its feet 50 - 60 yrs ago. You can tell it was dying, because popular culture was already taking the piss out of it even then. I'm All Right Jack, The Rag Trade...a female jewish shop steward, a local boy Supervisor and a Tory owner. Working class tory Alf Garnett, The 4 Yorkshireman Sketch, Cleese, Barker, Corbett's 'I look down on him' sketch.
There are no old school 'the workers flag is deepest red' workers in the wild now - The jobs that held them in the thrall of low pay and poor conditions are all mostly gone now...and the need for a Labour Party to fight for them.
There are more 'deepest red' wannabies in the theoretical captivity of student politics and academia...yes, technically they're lions, but if their paymasters and zookeepers didn't feed them they'd all starve.
Even back in the early 60s, Wilson (good arl 'aitch) only toppled 13 years of tory rule by 4(?) Seats.
The only time Labour were ever 'really popular' was with Blair's New Labour aka, tory light.
When Labour voters in steel and mining towns tell you to fuck off you're doomed. When voters in Garston and Halewood are telling you to do one you're doomed.
'For the many not the few' was sound, it worked on doorsteps...until those people saw all the other shite they wanted to tack on the end of it.
Corbyn and his cohorts old style neo marxism is the stuff of dinosaurs - news flash - Asteroid Boris and Workington Man just exploded over their heads and the resultant Political Nuclear Winter will, hopefully, see them off to extinction of history, to join the Dark Satanic Mills full downtrodden workers that they're fighting for.
Moshiri and Kenwright take note; keep on not listening to US and eventually we may slowly desert you too.
49 Posted 15/12/2019 at 01:13:34
Removing Clause IV was a means to a end... centrist populist public school politics. A plague on all their houses.
50 Posted 15/12/2019 at 03:20:05
Sadly I had to recently listen to a mate openly call the likely carve-up of parts of the NHS 'fake news' whilst apparently wholly believing â€˜Comrade' Corbyn would simply sell us all out to some nebulous enemy state if allowed any sort of authority.
Boris won't get his deal done according to his timetable so look forward to no deal suddenly becoming the prime option before spring is gone.
At least the money markets will be buoyant as the financiers and brokers look forward to their markets becoming less regulated.
51 Posted 15/12/2019 at 08:20:25
Need a win v Man Utd to lift the gloom!
52 Posted 15/12/2019 at 08:36:09
53 Posted 15/12/2019 at 09:10:31
To everyone out there, don't get old and don't get sick.
By the the way, when the new hospital opens in place of the present one in Prescott Street a good % will be for private patients.
54 Posted 15/12/2019 at 09:32:22
55 Posted 15/12/2019 at 09:35:19
56 Posted 15/12/2019 at 10:43:21
Perhaps the Labour Party has become too lazy, too theoretical, to actually be clear on real issues that affect genuine people. Without such clarity, it's an environment that naturally attracts the bullshitters and the self-righteous.
57 Posted 15/12/2019 at 10:51:17
You don't have to like the Tories but trade with the rest of the world probably means that the city of Liverpool will gain more than most.
It's no secret that the trade shackles of Europe has seen Southern and Eastern ports boom yet those on the West declined. Given that 90% plus of world trade still goes by sea you would expect western ports to blossom.
Oh and by the way we will still trade with Europe, only now we have a stronger negotiating position.
The NHS problems stem from population increase and people living longer thanks to better drugs etc.
It does need better funding and any government faces the same problems.
Each issue should be looked at separately and if we could get away from a Tory stance or a Labour stance we would probably solve the issues a lot quicker for the benefit of everyone.
Voting Labour or Tory based on history and coz our Grandad did is bollocks. The world has changed and politics needs to change with it. The issues should be what you vote for whoever the party.
Politicians etc are much the same when you scratch the service. Just google Len McCluskeys comments on why Corbyn lost to see my point.
Despite the NHS problems it is still the envy of the world testament to the heroic people who work in it.
58 Posted 15/12/2019 at 11:09:08
I recommend Brian Towers superb book about our docklands, Waterfront Blues and the effect the changing of the geography of our trade had on the docks and the big industries..Tate and Lyle, BAT, Bibbys etc.
As one commentator put it, the traditional economy was put to the sword by Thatcherism and the EU. In return Objective 1 and 2 funds poured in to enable the " Disneyfication" of Merseyside.
Fair makes ye thinkðŸ¤”
59 Posted 15/12/2019 at 11:10:00
A nice experiment but one I'd not wish to see repeated. Everton brings us all together, from so many walks of life. Politics will only divide us. No thanks from me.
60 Posted 15/12/2019 at 11:10:05
61 Posted 15/12/2019 at 11:17:43
It's OK being polarised and tribal in sport, which is arguably the whole idea of it. Everton will always be great (even when we're actually shite). But being so in real life outside of 22 blokes kicking a leather sphere seems ridiculous.
62 Posted 15/12/2019 at 11:24:56
63 Posted 15/12/2019 at 11:27:27
Remain cities such as Liverpool & Manchester returned Labour MPs (in the hope of a second vote presumably?).
Don't forget many Millions of people did vote Labour at this election, but
It was clear when the Blyth result came in that the tactical presence of the Brexit party in Leave-voting Labour areas did give a modest number of people who would never vote Tory the option to vote for someone other than Labour/Corbyn. I expect Nigel Farage will be getting a nice prezzie from Tory Central Office this year.
64 Posted 15/12/2019 at 11:54:36
65 Posted 15/12/2019 at 12:09:20
They should have done that after the last election, but they all got carried away with thinking the Government would collapse and Corbyn thinking his time had come, when it actually had past.
I am not advocating by 'New words and New power(s)' the return of New Labour, what I am talking about is a generational shift, since Brexit and associated complications are going to take a generation to sort out.
Government policy is now run by special interest groups and lobbies and lip service is paid to the actual voter.
66 Posted 15/12/2019 at 12:15:48
Let me be the first to say HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
67 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:21:57
Hes an Evertonian by the way..
68 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:44:10
69 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:21:00
The poor transport links in the North are not going to be brought up to spec just because a few extra ships start sailing straight to Liverpool and the attraction of the port won't change until they have been. It's a chicken-and-egg scenario.
Socialism exists in many forms. The NHS itself is an example of it. It is just a matter of how far you want the principle of everyone putting into a shared pot for those who need it to take out to go. To casually lump it in with fascism is ridiculous.
70 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:41:22
Ciaran, Dodds is indeed a Toffee. As was, and there is no segue here, Hitler's sister-in-law, Bridget. She lived in Dublin but moved to Liverpool. I believe her house was destroyed in an air raid.
She is a little known blue, as is Dodds.
71 Posted 16/12/2019 at 16:55:17
72 Posted 19/12/2019 at 13:53:43
You're right, Drew Hendry is a very good MP. We need more like him.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.