Everton expected to announce record losses

Unfortunately Moshiri has worked back to front. It should have been:

Stage 1 Get one of the best manager’s in the world.
Stage 2 Let that manager decide the players he wants and spend £400m.

As expected FFP will be the issue. Moshiri’s last roll of the dice is on Ancellotti. To improve the odds of success he needs to sack Brands and let Ancelotti fulfil the role of a traditional manager, give him total control of footballing matters. If Marco fails, Moshiri has no other realistic options open to him to improve the team though. We are at a critical point.

I can't say I am surprised, but at the same time my blood boils at the total financial blunders we have made since Moshiri came aboard.

It is patently obvious that Moshiri knows little about Football, so it has to be Kenwright ill-advising him, and the smug bastard will still walk away with his pockets bulging. The sooner the better in my opinion.

I sincerely hope Carlo doesn't get pissed off with the amateur handling of the Club's Finances, and is told there is little or no money for transfers after being promised funds would be made available. Then walks away!

Although it’s record losses, the club have also insisted they’re not close to breaking FFP and, I believe (but could be wrong), because we’re not in Europe we are only monitored by the Premier League. This allows around £30million a year investment from the owners.

Success on the pitch is an immediate requirement. No more "projects".

The loss position will have been known at the time of discussing the managers job with Carlo so it won’t be a “surprise” to him- he will have known his transfer budget from day 1.
There really has been an awful waste of money but a bit harsh and perhaps premature to blame it on Bill. Moshiri will have had control,of the purse strings and signings such as Siggy,Klaasen, Tosun and Bolasie do not sound like the work of someone who was behind the bargains picked up during Moyes reign. Who know someone- it’s a bit like writing off Duncan as a cone carrier?

Dave @5. I agree, Moshiri has been touted on here as a successful businessman, and this is business.
Ancelotti talked about finding out about the players we already have etc, and this is because he already knows the scene.
Money spent in january is rarely good value anyway.
We simply need to stay in the PL and give him a decent budget for the summer.
Can't pin this on Kenwright.

I think post 1 from Andy Walker basically says it all from our point of view.

I agree with Eddie too, this Kenwright blame os just pathetic now.

A shit joke almost every thread. All summer ot was 'obvious hes pulling the strings' then Ancelotti walks in. I would feel like a tart for weeks if i been spouting that bingo nonsense.

The man is a clown we know but hes not Jimmy Savile. He made mistakes and we have heard it over and over again but if you can't move on, how do you expect the club to.

Its not helpful to even mention the man while completely forgetting him being there was probably the reason Moshiri trusted Ferguson to restore some faith.

Moshiri has never had a better window than Kenwright with Martinez signing Lukaku McCarthy, Barry and Deulofeu but because Moshiri is richer he gets not even a fraction of the boring jokes.

Hes made more mistakes in 4 years than near all of the club leaders have had.

I blame everything on Kenwright.

And it won’t change until he leaves.

How the hell would sacking Brands help?

The players signed under his watch have been far superior to the dross that came from Walsh and Koeman. The transfer fees and contracts handed over by that pair set the club back years. Moshiri and Kenwright are also accountable for allowing it.

That said, we can still do far better in terms of recruitment. You’d think that a higher calibre player can be attracted by Carlo Ancelotti than Marco Silva.

I agree with Phil. Brands has bought quality. He may have been mistaken about Kean, but Ancellotti obviously rates him.

If anyone thinks that Kenwright was responsible for appointing and sacking Koeman, Allardyce and Silva, together with buying Klaasen, Siggy, Bolasie then you need help.

Apart from paying off ex managers, spending £450m on players since Moshiri took charge, is hardly his fault. He gave the money, but he didn't buy, Klaassen, Rooney, Bolasie, Ramirez, Schneiderlin and Delph, all on massive wages, and hardly kicked a ball. We sold Klaassen and Rooney, at a loss, and probably payed up their contracts as well, and even though Bolasie and Ramirez are on loan, the club are still paying the majority of their salary.

I agree with Phil. The Brands signings have been a class above the previous regime, including Allardyce. I would think the new system of Brands and Ancelloti would mean we can attract top players because of Carlo while Brands can concentrate on hidden gems. Surely a good combination.

In my opinion Walsh has put the “project “ back years with truly awful signings, yes Moshiri is the one signing the checks but Walsh was the man scouting and recommending which players to buy.

We fans blame everyone but ourselves. We were envious of the big spending clubs Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and more recently City and Spurs for years. When we got our own billionaire owner we just went nuts. We wanted Everton to spend money to catch up to the clubs I have mentioned and were made up when we did. What we didn't do was bring in a top manager to buy the right players. It's all been a scatter gun approach. Five managers in as many years. Each one brought in to try and clean up the mess left by the previous one. The last four prior to Ancelotti all bringing in their own bunch of near useless players without getting rid of the rubbish left by the last guy. Just adding more crap to the wage bill. We have so much deadwood at the club and loaned out. We have to get rid of these players and reduce our wage bill.
We have to accept we are not going to be catapulted into the top four by just throwing money at it. We must have a rational plan to unload the rubbish pile and stop adding to it. If it means a few more lean seasons then so be it.

The current squad is very good, and represents some effective spending on players, despite some ineffective spending on other players that was surely not surprising (and perhaps inevitable) in the 'new regime' since Moshiri came in.

The problem at the moment is the injury crisis we have, and it is indeed a crisis of unusual proportions. It is hardly a surprise that a business might run at losses during the initial stages of adopting a 'new regime', and Everton is no different.

Similarly, in this new regime, it is hardly surprising that several managers of middling quality will tried, tested, and rejected. We now have a top manager, which reflects upward evolution of the regime that parallels the better players signed under Brands.

Further progress can be expected as the injury problems reduce.

Frank @ 15, with all due respect Frank, the fans have had no say whatsoever in either the choice of Manager or the players that have been brought in.

Sure the fans want success, and also want to see top players brought in, but that is about as far as it goes. I don't think for one moment anyone on the Board or who is connected to the Club, look at TW or any other Fansites to guage opinion.

I think what these figures will show is this is what happens when you put DOF in charge of buying players, an unmitigating disaster both Walsh and Brands. For those suggesting Brands is so much better than Walsh, I give you Bernard, Iwobi and Delph and we havent seen enough of yet of Gbamin and Kean.

Thankfully we now have a world class manager who will now be in charge of transfers, as I cant see Ancelotti being told who we are buying by Brands or any other DOF.

The crazy wage strucure doesn't help (Sandro, Morgan), plus 25 million for Micheal Keane et al. I still can't believe Wayne Rooney was on 60k a week more than Salah, when the latter scored over 30 goals that season.

If ALL the players identified and signed by Brands are so good, why on earth have we spent so much time at the wrong end of the table ? Truth is, of course, that the majority of them were not good enough to hold down a place in the teams from which they were signed. Only Deign and Richarlason have proved good enough to hold down a place here !

This might explain the depressing Ragnar Klavan rumours.

Joe you honestly believe Salah was on less than Rooney. My god mate stop believing everything you read.

They got Salah from Roma, a champions League club doing well in their own country and he was 25. How do you think they keep him happy? Why hasn't the likes of PSG and Real Madrid bid for a striker that got 40 goals in a season
On for 20-30 this season.

Honestly mate these so called journalists that call out players wages haven't considered half the factors that matter.

Joe #19.
Who is it at the club who agrees to sign these players and more importantly who agrees the wages ?
Surely it must cross the mind somebody dealing with the finances " This seems like an awful lot of money per week "
The goalkeeper from Huddersfield is a case in note.

The players in the squad I rate, that represent good value and will yield a return in investment were signed by Brands. Every player who represents squandered transfer funds, wasted wages and poor return were signed by Walsh.

Bernard and Iwobi bad value? Even if that is true (which it isn't), I give you Sandro, Klaasen, Walcott, Schneiderlin, Sigurddson, Tosun, Bolaise, Martina.

Don't believe everything the press write about wages. Liverpools wage bill is apparently higher than Man Citys.

Salah will be kept well happy and why on earth would anyone tell a journalist the real number?

The press have had Harry Kane on 90k a week for about 4 seasons now. He could earn that a day a Madrid or Man United.

Totally agree with posts #1 & 2. Moshiri could write a book on “how to waste millions for dummies”.

He surrounded himself with serial failures, charlatans and piss artists who took him to the cleaners. Carlo might just be his last hope to save his investment.

To ALL the Pro/even semi pro Kenwright supporters ;
Lets get something right here without meandering back to the past,Moshiri knew as mutch about footy as I know about how to build a Box Girder Bridge.

Who the fuck else except Mr.teary arse would of been in his ear constantly (Now he was bloated with new found wealth AND HIS INTEREST ON LOANS REPAID OFF)
Gibbering on like a pools winner in his ear about Rooney/Martinez said' ill take you into the champions league' (after relagation!) Oooh we must have that Koeman manager at Smpton...Bring 'Our David ' back etc on.on and on.

Utter Parasite.
Get Rid.

One minute a euphoric thread on Usmanov next total dejection we're brasack!!

Tom 27 I haven't seen a Kenwright supporter in the thread. I think the subject bores.

You have proof of all your "whispers"? No? Lets move on then..the man is a clown but equally clownish jokes and rumours about what you think he said are irrelevant and absolute dire for moving on in life.

Who really gives a stuff about how much players cost and how much they get paid ? None of us will have to balance the books nor sashay around FFP.

All that matters is that the manager believes the team he has to work with is fit for purpose and that he knows how to deploy them. For much of the last four years, the managers' fitness for purpose has also raised many a query and thereby muddied the pool !

Come on people, Brands had plenty to do when he arrived and his priority was offloading some of the deadwood, which he did.
It wasn't Brands who gave these players long and generous contracts.
We are still in a position of having players, past their best, on megabucks that other clubs won't pay.
We are saddled with Tosun, Walcott, Siggi and Schnides to name but 4, until we can find someone to take them and pay their wages.
of the players Brands has overseen, the jury is out on Iwobi but Richarlison has been a success, as had Gomes. Mina is showing signs of progress, Digne has slumped in form, but he is a quality player. Sidibe has proved useful and Bernard has his moments.
No-one can have forseen the Gbamin injury.
Brands started the job as Silvas was being courted and now he has a new relationship to develop.
I would think that he is quite capable of working with a professional like Carlo and that between them they can bring some real quality to the club in the Summer.
We simply have to be patient.
If there was one bit of business I'd like to see in january, it would be Nathan Ake in and Keane going to Bournemouth.

Andy #1 - Marco who?!!

Every football club now has a director of football or sporting director.

Steve, it was a typo, should have been Carlo!

Andy #1 - you're streaming is obviously behind!

Everton can't waste the same money twice. So far, Everton have a mediocre squad that usually under-performs. Everton paid 50 million for Walcott and Tosun who don't usually score goals. These 2 players reveal what was wrong with Everton's transfer policy in the past, paying staggering amounts of money for players who should not be at the club if Everton have any ambitions.

A story of this ilk would have petrified me pre-Moshri.

It doesn't even make my heart skip a beat now.

Moshri has done everything an owner can. He's been unlucky.

He's injected millions into the Club. He's invested in its infrastructure and the city in which it resides with the Liver building. I believe (?) Finch Farm has seen upgrades? And he's in the process of building a brand new, state of the art stadium.

I have no doubt any longer he has backers.

He's spent large to attempt the gate-crash the Big Boys, and it's failed due to some poor player purchases. I'm sure he's learned from that, adjusted, and we'll see moving forward a very aggressive owner who will simply spend more prudently, and less.

The wage bill will be reduced to around 63% to 65%, and we'll see 1-2 "impact" transfers moving forward instead of the scatter-gun approach we saw previously.

A scatter-gun approach who's only purpose was to catapult Everton into the upper echelons of English Football quickly.

It didn't work, we'll adjust, and move on. And Moshri has the pockets and the friends to have undergone that experiment without worry or financial ruin.

What I love about ToffeeWeb is the posters who give us an inside track on what's going on at Goodison and FF.

So fascinating to hear what Kenwright whispers in Moshiri's ear about this player or that manager and who puts the cones out for training etc etc.

Derek #20. Because we had a poor manager. Results since then have been far more encouraging.

On the subject of our indebtedness, when I used to run a pub many years ago, we had two sets of books. A set for the taxman and the real set.

Colin #26.

Should that not be 'How to waste millions ON
dummies ' ?

Hiring and firing a number of managers over a short period hasn’t helped. We are probably still paying off Koeman, Allardyce, Silva and numerous associates.

Moshiri is an accomplished accountant - he may be playing a few smoke and mirror finance games for all we know

Brands great signings are questionable, he brought in Kean, a good future prospect, but an established striker, and a centreback, were essential last summer, considering we lost Zouma and Jagielka, he bought neither, and Silva was instrumental in signing Richarlison and Gomes.

The expected losses are around £100m.
The wages to turnover ratio is around 77%
It will be very difficult to reduce the wage bill during January as the players on high wages who are not playing are not going to attract interest at their fees and wages, the club will have to take huge losses on the books to offload at a reduced price while also subsidising part of the wages for the remainder of the contract while said player is playing for another club.

What worries me most, isn't just the fact that the club has been run extremely poorly from a financial (and on field) perspective, it's that the outlook for the current financial year will be as poor if not worse. Last financial year, the loss was £13m only due to record profit from player sales, around £88m, without which the club would have recorded another £100m+ loss.

So if you have a business that's generating huge losses year after year, without any clear plan of how to turn it around, at some point this unsustainable situation will come back to bite. Make no mistake, regardless of Moshiri, Usmanov or the tooth fairy, the outlook financially is very bleak.

Brands was brought in with the directive of reducing wages, however, that has not happened as the total wages have increased, with the 2020 outlook seems to also be on the rise. Already the club will pay the manager and his team nearly 3X what the previous manager earned, young players such as DCL, Holgate, Davies and others will be in line for significantly improved contracts. A few Players will be offloaded in the summer, but the wages will be offset by new big money signings. All these increases in costs will happen while income is stagnant. It's a recipe for a Leeds style disaster.

Ha ha ha ha! Good one Brent.

Bill Watson nail on the head. Sad isn't it.

Now lets beat this red infestation of Alienism.

If true This shows how poorly the people who work on buying and selling players are, and they are unfit for the position.. We are going to have to take a loss on any player we want to sell, and the other problem is who wants them.

Well all I can say is that I doubt Ancelotti would be here without a promise of transfer funds.

Brands wasnt employed to solely reduce the wages. He was employed to review and overhaul the entire footballing structure whilst balancing the books. He has managed to successfully rid the club of a lot of dead wood whilst recruiting players who on the whole are younger and have increased their transfer values, a marked difference to the past few years.
There are still a few left overs, Niasse is nigh on impossible to shift, Tosun is required as cover but was another expensive mistake, Walcott and Schniederlin can expect to exit sooner rather than later and both are high earners but currently have use to the squad.
Aside from Iwobi, who started brightly but has faded, most other players he has brought in would sell for more than we bought at.
Digne, Richarlison, Bernard, Gomes are all worth more, and can all be considered successful signings. Mina, probably about same. Kean? He's only had 6 months!! He certainly hasn't gone down in value and should he become available will be sought after again. Sibide? If signed for 12 million? Bargain. If he goes back to his parent club and Kenny comes back in? Good business
This season has been horrible for injuries. Yes the management of the players available hasn't been up to scratch, but if Ancelloti had walked into the club with Gomes, Gbambin and Delph all fit then he probably wouldn't have been taking over a club near the bottom 3 (arguably he wouldn't be here because Silva wouldn't have been sacked if we were higher up the table)

The losses are not Brands fault. The club will still be paying Silva, I think Koeman too as his wages were bing subsidised in the Dutch Job. Fat Sam, not sure when his payout went through or whether the continued to pay him in instalments. Those are cock ups and none can be attributed to Brands

Even better, David.👍

Is it a great problem? Moshiri is standing guarantor so he must believe that the club, over time, will be able to pay off their debts and if nothing else he knows how to read a set of accounts. Should it come to anything then it's back to finishing somewhere between 7th & 12th in the League while we do have a squad, if it can be kept together, that should be good for another 5 years at least.

This is to be expected while Moshiri builds a better squad. We were never going to improve based on income as that is improving very slowly.

This figure also precedes sales worth £70 million (and further purchases of £100 million) so as ever is an artificial snapshot of the true financial situation that was known 6 months before Ancelotti arrived so comments in the media that suggest promises are being strained are very wide of the mark.

the clubs a shambles from top to bottom

One of my favourite comments to read in the transfer windows on ToffeeWeb is “don’t worry about it, it’s not your money” when discussing the price of a potential transfer target.

Just add another half a dozen players by paying them off their contracts to the losses. Whats a few more million

Jimmy 10. Brands has bought quality?:

Gomes. A fraud. Outclassed by Lincoln

Digne. Can't defend. Gives free kicks away in dangerous positions. Responsible for loss at Millwall.

Sidibe. At fault for most goals conceded away. Not even in camera shot for goals down his flank. Monaco fans celebrated when they sold him.

Kean. Couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.

Richarlison. Falls over and sulks

Delph. Over the hill and injury prone

Pickford. A Clown.

Brands should be run out of town.

We are becoming another Leeds United, huge debt, huge wage bill and a load of shit players we can never offload. So how do we get out of it? Get a new manager, make him the the 3rd highest paid manager in the world. Buy more players to put us another couple of 100 mill in debt and then buy a new stadium to put us in so much debt we will never get out of debt.

While the team used their brains got a decent manager from the start, expanded their own stadium and started a culture were every player lived and breathed the red shite and then just to rub it in sent out a youth team and showed us how to play football with attitude. yep we are heading in the right direction

Ian @57, I may be wrong but I think the combined 55 million on Pickford and Micheal Keane was before Brands?

The warning signs with Pickford was relegation with Moyes Sunderland.

Football and business should be kept separate.
Moshiri has had to learn some harsh lessons and is still learning that a team sport doesn't work like a business.

Everyone slags Walsh off but some of the young players he bought such as Vlassic had all the ingredients to be a fantastic player.

Leicester are still benefitting from several players that are now developing into excellent players.

So I believe the basics are their but our managers and coaches have failed to get the best out of them and in that respect Moshiri has failed by hiring the wrong managers.

I know Pochettino would probably have declined wanting a bigger 'champions league' club but I would have tried everything to get him. I think he would have improved what we have, mostly young energetic players.

Moving on we have a top manager in Ancelotti but he'll demand much better players as he doesn't work to improve youngsters, he wants a more finished player.

Moshiri has to back him financially otherwise he's again hired the wrong man.

Very distressing, lots of actions and decisions taken in recent years, but majority of them poor, very expensive and to the detriment and spirit of Everton Football Club.

I think this match finally killed off the notion, clung to by many, that we have a talented, skilful squad which was being mismanaged. We have a very limited squad with too many one paced, very slow, elderly players more suited to walking football.

Quite why Ancelotti has seen fit to bring back short goal kicks puzzles me. Duncan had dispensed with those in the knowledge that the players were incapable of making it work. Yesterday it played to our weaknesses and the opposition’s strengths. Why do that?

If any good is to come of yesterday’s result, the club must start planning a revolution in terms of style, personnel and performance levels. That will not happen overnight. The immediate priority must be to secure the five wins required to guarantee safety.

The sooner he can do that the sooner Ancelotti can start testing what he has available in the under 23s and under 18s. Along with that must come a radical change in playing style which can only be brought about by bringing in younger players with the energy, sprinting speed, stamina and team ethos which we saw in abundance from the opposition yesterday.

Has Moshiri invested any of his own money in the club or has he burdened the club with crippling debts? The way money has been fritted away I doubt it has been done with his money. No successful businessman would run a business in the way he has run Everton. Due to his mismanagement of the finances I fear we'll be the next Leeds.

Geoff, he has learned from the best about not dipping into his own pocket at Everton, no names mentioned.

Care not about the price of success . until the lenders demand their money back with interest . these guys don't give a fuck about the history of a club, their fans or even their very survival they are in it for profit, not love and adoration. I think a day will come when television money will dry up due to saturation coverage of football and when that day comes there will be much gnashing of teeth and many salty tears.

Frank Crewe @ 15.

Nail = head. Nothing more to add.