Second string see off Salford City

Delph's absence surely signifies the end.

This team should be technically a million miles ahead of Salford City, a few can stake their claims here.

It concerns me a bit that it is a bit lightweight, a bit short on hard men fighters and I am concerned about it’s resilience to defend set pieces.

It’s a 4th division club ! What am I worrying about ?

Iwobi's absence is certainly curious.

This would seem to signal the end of Bolasie's flickering hopes of playing a role this season. I would have given him at least a chance to make an impact in this match.

My only potential concern is Virginia - he imploded so badly on loan with Reading, I have no idea what the current state of his confidence is. What purpose does Jonas Lossl serve in the squad, exactly? Because it sure doesn't seem to be as a backup keeper.

Iwobi and Delph must be on the way ! And maybe Lossl who was on the bench on Sunday but now been leapfrogged by Virginia!?

I’m a little nervous now!

The likes of Walcott, Sigurdsson and Bernard need to show some real effort whilst the young lads like Kenny, Kean, Davies, Nkounkou and Branthwaite have a chance to stake their claim. It should be interesting!

Who's the masked person in the stand?

Yes, it's a bit flattening so far.

Kid at left back looks promising though.

And I don't know why

But I felt the same about Besic.

I should think he is trying too hard to impress and in doing so, looks gauche.

Hopefully the fact that Carlo picked him tonight, and let him take the penalty, will start to calm his nerves, and he can begin to deliver on his promise.

After all, as the old saying goes, he hit the woodwork a couple of times tonight, that, on another night, would have gone in - so we would have scored five and he could have had a hat trick.

Lady Luck - if she smiles on him and he can then relax, he will be OK.

It’s mad how we all see a different game, I thought Gordon was only good in snatches, and although his finishing was wayward, I thought Bernard constantly showed and consistently recycled the ball all night.

The left back looks very good, Kenny got stronger as the game went on, which was the polar opposite of the man in front of him, because Theo doesn’t really look like he wants to play.

A good run out, the ball got moved quicker at times, and now to get rid of some players hopefully.

Most of those on the field are adequate bench players. Nkounkou and Gordon show lots of promise. Kenny is okay but no more than just that.It just wasn't the type of game to make any serious judgements. After the Spurs display almost anything would be underwhelming. Still good to be able to watch any game.Just hope Branthwaite isn't too badly injured because he also shows lots of potential.

I'll stay positive and praise Nkounkou and Gordon. Solid performance for most of the rest against a lower level team.

Roll on Saturday..

We are short now at CB and relying on Mina to stay fit, which is a bit worrying. I think Carlo will be discussing the options with Marcel in the morning, we need someone in within a week if we can.

Thank God we have the new signings

Tom needs a good season on loan at a Championship Club to further his development

I know I’m in the minority but I still believe Moise Kean will come good

A couple of years ago that match could have been much closer or gone to penalties. I’m noticing a really different mind set now under Carlo

Lots of positives all round tonight though so roll on Saturday

The only thing we lack is a goalscoring winger or striker to give us more options up front and a dependable center half to add cover in defence. Hopefully Carlo can sort these issues out before the window shuts.

I was very impressed with our left hand side though. Thought Gordon was MOTM and Nkounkou not far behind.

Moise Kean was very poor and looked totally pissed off to be here. Not a patch on DCL when he was learning who showed good mobility and a good attitude. Kean seems to want the game to come to him rather than make a mark on it himself.

Poor attitude; dusty bin for me along with Walcott and Iwobi.

Tom gave 100% as usual but he has got to improve his tackling and passing if he is to make the necessary move up. Siggy showed he still has the brain for the top level even if he is half a yard slow.

I found Kenny competent. The back line played well. Davies needs to cut down on losing possession, his no 1 weakness. He needs to study the video of the Spurs game and learn fast. Sigurdsson was good enough and Walcott was as per usual. I still think final third play is weak, which did not help Kean in particular. , but Gordon was the exception.

The contrast between Everton final third play and the Spurs game shows you difference of all round better technically midfield.

A good result.

Realistically the bulk of the back up squad didn’t do anything spectacular and you’d think they’d be fighting for their futures, as I’m sure time will be called soon, directly or indirectly, for some of the squad tonight.

Which clubs would bid, or take on loan the back up squad is interesting.

I’m not going to single out players but the midfield and wide players, who were the core last season, in my view didn’t help their causes.

My views, are Bernard, Tom, and Siggy, will stay, the rest I reckon could go.

Great potential for Anthony Gordon and Nkounkou. The French lad, was playing before he was born; seriously he looks like the real business and strong and sharp in descision making, and Anthony Gordon, is stepping up and in my view will be a key player for the future, at EFC.

Hard work, guts and effort, and the basic ingredients, are vital in any sport.

Interesting if some some players have been rested, if only to make them easier to sell before the transfer deadline.

But Fleetwood, away will be a tougher game, but let’s see how we do against the Baggies.

I’m hoping we can stay in tune and beat them well.

Let’s hope so.

Two clean sheets, back to back, that’s a good start, and hopefully will nurture belief, confidence and conviction through the whole squad.

Common Lincoln City!

Hopefully some desperate Premier League teams will come in for some of this lot...

I've been saying this from the moment he signed – somewhat gently, but now more directly – Kean scored goals for Italy and Juventus in teams in which he had little responsibility. With top players around him, and little expectation, he scored a handful of goals when opposition teams knew little about him, and his reputation quickly grew. But he's not a good footballer, and he is showing no real sign of improvement.

It's about time that the people who believed the hype start to accept the reality: Moise Kean is already a busted flush at this football club.

Joe (40) - I have always supported Calvert-Lewin. There were obvious (to me anyway) signs that he has what it takes, even if there are areas of his game that need work. I do not see signs of a top player in Kean - who is more of the crash, bang, wallop type of player who relies on ricochets and brute force to beat players.

I do not go in for this philosophy of cherry-picking parallels with certain players in the hope that what applies to one will somehow end up applying to the other. Instead, I let what I see on the pitch dictate to me who displays enough positive signs of being a top player and who does not. Kean does not.

Kenny I think cemented his back-up role to Coleman. Sigurdsson, Bernard and Davies are squad players only. Walcott is finished and Kean nowhere near ready for the first team.

With Holgate out for possibly 12 weeks, Mina injury-prone, and Branthwaite injured, it is imperative we get a centre-back in on loan.

Nkounkou - Excellent looks a very capable understudy for Digne

Gordon - When his confidence grew he looked very dangerous

Bernard - Played well in central position and will only play better with a stronger team around him

Kenny - Played well considering he had Theo playing in front of him and will only play better with better players around him. Give him James in front of him and Allan and Doucoure in CM and I think he will flourish

Gilfi - I thought he played quite well. Yet again played deep and not as comfortable in that position but when he plays with Allan and Doucoure he will be a valuable squad player

His first touch so many times was awful, which is a basic requirement from any striker, and just lacks that desire and intelligence needed at this level. I know many will say he's still young but, for me, I haven't seen enough in 15 months to suggest he is improving.

I think these under performing, diss motivated players have stamped their exit visas out of EFC, tonight, and if not tonight, a tough game at Fleetwood, next week, could if it’s not already, a wake up call, be the penultimate, or final game, in the EFC, first team.

No more excuses, the mercenary, lazy arses at EFC, will be training with the U23s, very soon.

The club hopefully will tighten up and no longer accept mediocrity.

That will raise questions and hopefully, lessons learnt about transfer policy.

Now to beat The Baggies.

Looks like a poor man's Stuart Barlow to me, others may say Deidre Barlow.

Not for me. We have got the midfield sorted; now, we need a proven striker to back up Calvert-Lewin.

Any decent bids for a Kean, snatch their hands off.

People like Gordon and Nkoukou come straight in and show poise and skill so why not Kean???

He really doesn't warrant inclusion any more than Sandro, Tosun or Bolasie who are other players who have struggled to impress.

Tonight, Bernard played as a hub through which we took the ball forward. Not necessarily showy, but he worked his socks off.

Sigurdsson did what he can do when he has space created either by poor opposition (tonight) or hard-working players around him (Allan and Doucouré maybe?). He will never be a workhorse type. But he has the ability to play the killer ball and, with an on-form centre-forward, we would have had the second goal much earlier.

On the down-side, since his early days at Arsenal, I had always rated Theo Walcott. So I was always looking for him to come good here. Sadly, tonight must be his last game for us. If nobody wants him, he can go and play golf for the length of his contract. All it takes against 4th Division opposition is for top players to back themselves. He didn't.

Virginia, Nkounkou and Gordon all showed promise. It was hard to judge Kenny as he was doing the work of 2 players down his flank. What would he have given for a mirror image of Gordon in front of him?

On the whole, job done. If, as it looks, Iwobi and Bolasie are gonners and one or two more follow them out of the door, we may have the funds to bolster the defence and attack before the transfer window closes.

Roll on Saturday.

Next week's encounter with Fleetwood will be tougher and probably most who played tonight will be on duty again – I don't think we'll see 32 shots at goal at the Highbury Stadium, but hopefully, Everton will progress.

Gordon and the young left-back gave good accounts of themselves and could feature in Saturday's squad.

Someone compared him to Calvert-Lewin but IMO he is polar opposite to Calvert-Lewin who, even when he wasn't scoring, was working hard for the team and making good movements and always looking to learn.

Kean looks like he is carrying a bag of cement on his shoulders and never looks for the payers around him.

Brian #68, I think Deirdre Barlow would be insulted.

I recall Kean being compared by some to a young Lukaku around the time we signed him. Twelve months on, I have yet to see anything from Kean to suggest he will ever come close. But he is still young. I have not given up hope he can in time develop into a half-decent forward.

We need a more experienced and quality forward as back-up and competing with Calvert-Lewin up front. Carlo will have someone in mind. I can see Moise going back to Italy... which may be a better environment for him to progress.

Ancelotti is one of the few types of managers who could cajole him into staying and fighting for a regular first-team place, but if the lad's heart isn't in it what can be done?

I only watched the 2nd half, and we looked comfortable and didn't leave 1st gear. If anything, it was a decent fitness exercise for the second string.

Only Keane will play on Saturday, but we'll need some of the others throughout the season. Gordon and Nkounkou will be happy with themselves and should be involved with the first team more and more. Davies, unfortunately, looks like a move away will be on the cards. Probably the Championship, and maybe he'll do well, but he really doesn't look the part.

And hopefully we can get a winger so Walcott can go and fulfill his potential somewhere else. And a defender is absolutely necessary.

The most talented player at the club. He has skills that remind me of Alan Ball. Never gives the ball away.

Was he "great"? Well no he wasn't – but very few players were "great" – particularly in that first half. I thought it had big sense of déjà vu from last season which should be no real surprise as we were playing Davies and Sigurdsson in centre-midfield, as we were a lot last season.

I think Kean will benefit from playing the full 90 minutes in the cup games so I hope he starts the next one. I'll defer to Carlo's judgement on what he see's on the training field as to whether he is worth keeping in mind for the first team as first choice back up for Calvert-Lewin. Kean strikes me (albeit from afar) as a character well suited to Carlo's style of management.

Gordon and Nkounkou looked particularly good amidst a sea of mediocrity btw.

Tonight, he went back to looking disinterested & basically half-arsed. So the cynical side of me wonders if that Bournemouth performance was really a shop-window come & get me shout. Because on tonight's performance, we aren't gonna get a buyer for him or have as reliable back-up for Richarlicon & Calvert-Lewin.

Simple question for you: Do you want to win this cup?

If No, keep playing the shite that started tonight. If Yes, when should we start playing the best available players to win some bloody silverware?

Why is it that some on here think the WBA game is more important than this competition?

25 fookin years without a trophy... why is that I ask? Because we never take the cup games seriously.

My guess is that Sigurdsson and Bernard will remain as squad players, which leaves Besic, Bolasie, Delph, Sandro and Walcott as surplus to requirements; Tosun will probably go out on loan in the January window when he is fit.

Ideally, I would still like a left-footed centre-back and right-winger to come in before the end of the transfer window.

We look like we have good coverage at full-back with Kenny and the excellent Nkounkou – what a spot he is turning out to be.

Sigurdsson looked better in a deeper role with more time to look up but not first choice now. Davies, the same old player, gave the ball away far too often. Left-back was great, a real find and a good back-up to Digne.

Many saying Bernard was okay, but I was disappointed, as with Walcott, Jonjoe and Kean. As for the others who didn't even figure as bench warmers, it is patently obvious they have no place in the plans.

Worryingly more so, how do we get shut? Who's going to go in for underperforming highly paid misfits?

Fleetwood Town next, we will need to revise personnel and be more aware for that one, as they are capable of a giant killing on their day!

I am not optimistic of offloading them. Palace would seem like a destination for Iwobi given Hodgson signed Benteke, Townsend etc after similarly failing at “bigger clubs” but the issue is that we paid way over the odds pre Covid.

Since then he has sucked ass causing a devaluation even with Covid. With Covid, best case we ship him out on loan.

Virginia – did fine.

Defence – All solid; Jonjoe didn't offer much of a threat in attack. Nkounkou looks like a very exciting player

Midfield – Bernard and Sigurdsson did what they do. Both are Premier League players and decent back-up. Davies looks short technically, hence loses possession too often.

Attack – Anthony Gordon looked great in patches. Walcott was okay. Moise Kean – he was awful, the ball just does not stick to him and I think that is a basic ability you don't learn aged 20. Sell if we can.

Second goal was lovely and both Bernard and Gordon almost scored absolute crackers. A few great balls in from Sigurdsson too.

His performances are no better than Barlow, Angell, Branch, Anichebe and Madar.

He must have something as he’s a current Italy international and happy to give him time but my eyes don’t lie!

I don't think Kean was confused, Bill G, especially because he wasn't given the penalty to take, he stood by the spot waiting for the ball, and after he scored he looked like he wasn't happy with Anthony Gordon, because the young scouser might have also wanted to take the penalty kick.

His look to Gordon was like a “Can't you see I need a fuckin goal? Get on it, Anthony, I'm struggling a bit here, whilst you are playing on your doorstep and coasting." That's how I saw it anyway.

Sigurdsson got going late-on when the space opened-up. Alas, Davies looked no better than the Salford lads, he did some very sensible things but continues to cough-up possession when under little pressure.

Gordon looks a shy soul and hopefully his confidence will increase.

Moise Kean has a poor first touch but I thought he was trying too hard, but how did he not convert that easy header... those goals are bloody massive, and to hit the bar from 4 yards with no-one jumping next to you is shocking.

Very glad we didn't risk any of the others, especially after seeing Branthwaite pulling-up. (Has he been on Mina's excercise routine?)

I enjoyed the second half.

That said, Walcott needs to go and I wouldn't be too upset if Kean was moved on to fund a move for Lozano or Ünder.

Anything less than that and he will be deemed an abject failure; there's very little sign of him delivering the goals required so far. He would need to at least get into double figures in the Premier League. He's had a season to adjust, there can be no excuses this season.

Cut the lad free and let him kickstart his career back in Italy.

However, we won 3-0, with the second string, and hit the woodwork five times so, job done.

I expect some of the dead wood to be shipped out towards the end of the window when clubs, who've had a poor start, will be desperate to add a new face.

Gordon and Nkounkou are clearly excellent. First 11 quality already.

Kean scored and with a bit of luck would have had a hat-trick. Someone said that's 3 goals in his last 3 starts. Once he relaxes a bit, he will be fine. I really wouldn't be surprised to see him dislodge Calvert-Lewin by the end of the season.

No need to sell him or Iwobi. In fact, no need for any sort of clear out. Maybe one or two, but we do need some depth to get us through a season where hopefully we'll be competitive in league and cups.

A few will leave on loan before leaving for good - Bolasie, Ramirez. The rest we might well need.

What we do probably need is CB cover, with Branthwaite injured now and Gibson not featuring last night (about to go on loan perhaps). So one of Tomori, Adarabioyo or AN Other hopefully.

That saving could make a difference regarding FFP, or by shifting three ineffective players for an effective one.

Kean has made 35 appearances for Everton. On several occasions recently he has looked for all the world like he has never played the game. The kids's game is on the floor. His confidence and self-belief are so low, it's impossible to gauge which level he can achieve.

We paid a lot of money for this kid, so it's natural to be disappointed with what we have seen from his so far... but there is zero mileage in battering away at him.

There is a huge gaping hole in the logic of people who repeatedly hammer young players whilst exonerating the guy who keeps putting them in the team. Only one person picks the team and if he is repeatedly selecting players who are not good enough, it's his fault and his fault alone.

These kids don't pick themselves.

What surprised me was other players who should have stood out against poor opposition but didn't, Walcott proved why he should move on.

As for Moise Kean, a young man who I want to do well, he was dire, there was not one aspect of his game you could recommend on last night's showing, even when he scored the pen his face said it all: he is not happy, probably wants out, and after last night's performance, may get his wish.

I do want us to win the cup, any cup of course. However, the second string are adequate for the first couple of rounds and the league will always be priority. A win at WBA and we are set up for our best start to the season for donkey's years.

Are you saying you'd have been happier winning at a canter yesterday with our best 11, then limping to a 1-1 draw against WBA?

I'm all for picking him in these games. I think he needs more time coming off the bench as well.

He strikes me as the archetypal modern Everton signing; talented but not very effective. We'll only know how effective he can be if he's on the pitch more.

Me? If the prices were right, I'd sell him and buy Edouard off Celtic.

Sell:

Bolasie
Walcott
Besic
Delph
Sandro

Keep:

Davies
Iwobi
Siggy
Bernard

Exchange loan - if Carlo/Brands put their minds to it, I am sure an exchange of Kean for Chucky Lozano at Napoli can be worked out, with an option to buy at the end of the season.

Buy a left footed CB like Tomori and loan out one of Branthwaite or Gibson.

Squad:

GK: Pickford, Virginia, Lossl
CB: Keane, Mina, Holgate, Tomori, Gibson
Full Backs: Coleman, Digne, Kenny, Nkounkou
MF: Allan, Gbamin, Gomes, Doucoure, Davies, Siggy
Forwards: James, Bernard, Iwobi, Richarlison, DCL, Gordon, Lozano

Hopefully, Gbamin regains his fitness by November and can play a role in the 2nd half of the season.

It's very dangerous to have this lad as a third option. Either try Simms out or swap Kean for a proper striker who can at least hold a ball up. Big financial loss on the cards but that's our trademark at the moment until all these substandard players are off and away.

I just hope the fact that he is the same nationality as Carlo doesn't make him stubborn or cloud judgement... surely not, eh?

It might be a good idea to give the lad a break. After all, Brands did tell Kean's mum that he'd be looked after.

Walcott very poor again considering what he's on and his history, Bernard did try, but didn't set the world alight either unlucky hitting the post. Kean gives me the impression he doesn't want to be here.

You'd think that a game like last night, or indeed others in the past (pre-season/friendlies etc) fringe players would be busting a gut to impress the Manager, and the fans alike, to be either in the first team consideration or at least a place on the bench.

I did think Gordon and Nkounkou were the epitome last night of what the others should have acceded to!

Paul T, good shout there for Odsonne Edouard of Celtic, what a partner or standalone striker he would be with DCL. Good strong, right age, wish we had him.

Walcott still doesn't feel the need to step up. A regular feature when he plays is commentators and their side-kicks commenting on his once-promising career, as a way of contrasting with his performances now. 100 goals, second-youngest England-capped player, 47 Caps, 2 FA Cup medals. . .

I suppose we all remember him moving at pace and scoring. He still is tactically aware, but technically he is now off the pace and appears to be playing to avoid injury. He seems basically to have found his comfort zone and is staying there, his big wages roll in anyway. Probably planning for his MLS move in the last year of his contract.

.

Kean might just start to get his game going given a couple of 20-minute cameos with some quality service but, until then, at least he has the Fleetwood game to continue his development.

As Darren says, his game is at a low ebb but I'm sure he has plenty to offer. If his header had dropped in, he might have gone on to get more but, in fairness, some are suggesting that he looked unhappy, whereas I thought he looked angry with himself for not doing better. The pen was a little embarrassing (as Sigurdsson would normally take it) but it shows his peers want him to succeed.

I, for one am willing to be patient and Darren remember that a lot of those 35 appearances have been off the bench with little time on the clock.

I think the other thing worth mentioning regarding him is that Salford sat deep and he usually received the ball with his back to goal. Perhaps not his strongest skillset.

If we get past Fleetwood, then it will be interesting to see how this lot would cope against a good Championship team. I wonder if Carlo would feel the need to bring in the big boys?

Whereas, the full-backs and Gordon will see it as an opportunity to impress. Shows the importance of buying players with the right mentality, attitude and desire.

Good result, but it's starting to become clearer who is buying into the team and who is happy to collect their cheques with minimal input... off you pop (transferred or into the reserves never to be see again).

After Kean put in a MotM performance against Newcastle last season, instead of giving his confidence a boost by naming him in the next lineup he was dropped.

As you say, his game, and confidence, must be on the floor.I wonder how he would have performed with Sunday's midfield behind him.

"Thankfully Carlo is running the team and not some of the punters on TW"

Imagine the fun and games we would have during the debates on the "Everton Senior Team Selection Committee: TW Division."

And having made our selections we could then present them to the Live Forum

They'll all have a part to play this season. They'll all have better games too.

Next summer will result in a deeper overhaul as contracts expire.

I dread to think what the outcome might be if team selection was left to us amateurs on TW, haha. Of course, it's good fun playing fantasy football manager and all part of the experience being on this forum.

I prefer to leave the big decisions to the manager provided he knows his stuff... Carlo is obviously an excellent manager and is proving it.

Kean can trap it much harder and further...

He's a kid a long way from home – who knows how many different things he's struggling with? But I'm not sure if we are doing him too many favours keeping him at Everton.

This kid trains every single day with professional coaches and cannot trap a ball with any part of his body? He learns to do that... then we might start to see something.

That is such a basic thing. In fact, if Carlo wants to send him over to my place l will teach him within an hour in my back garden. £50 grand a week, my arse.

He wouldn't have got anywhere near the Juventus first team if he genuinely couldn't get the basics right.

He needs to go on loan; we need reliable back-up. Not this kid right now. Of course, there's Tosun... and Theo.

As many of us have been saying, without Carlo we would have struggled to attract players of the level of James Rodriguez and others, especially given the lack of European football.

He's certainly an improvement on some of our more recent managerial choices. I must admit to having some doubts about him after the post lockdown restart. He seemed unable to get the team performing in some games and we were really dire at times. I guess you have to put that down to the quality of some of the squad with which he had been saddled.

Bernard, Davies, Sigurdsson and Walcott played their normal game with all their normal faults. And Kean was ineffective. Don’t be fooled by Sigurdsson taking a corner for his assist, and scoring a tap in. He was crap, invisible as usual.

On about 70 minutes, Carlo and Duncan were looking increasingly concerned. Gary Neville suggested we might have to bring on some of our big hitters as it was getting uncomfortable.

From there on in, however, we bossed it. We got the second goal, then could have scored another 4/5. Sigurdsson suddenly started playing and looked a good player. We were brilliant in the last 20 minutes - no doubt Salford we’re lacking fitness and they knew they’d lost by then.

I’d say 4/5 players took their opportunities last night, but I wasn’t impressed by any of our established midfielders or Kean in attack.

But we won comfortably probably could and should have scored at least 4 or 5 more goals, and we progressed without having to call on to many who played against Spurs.

Shocking player totally bereft of the basics

For heavens sake give Kean a chance everyone. Young lad, learning his trade, foreign country, strange language ( plus the accent!!)- of course it will take time with him, especially given the midfield and striking partners he had last night. Give him a decent run with the new midfield in place and see if he improves. Look how people slagged off DCL ( and how some still do)- Kean will make it big time somewhere and I just hope it’s with us and not with Serie A.

That is code for, “ they are bubble wrapped and waiting to be dispatched “

Although it will be interesting to see, given a few more games, if Moise Kean will come good, but up to now, taking into account his poor first touch and control, there is little or no comparison to Lukaku.

I often look at his facial expression which are often an indicator of whether a player is enjoying his game, and unless he is a miserable sod by nature, that never comes over that he is.

All that said. I would have loved to see him celebrate a bit more after his cheeky penalty though! Whether he knows it or not, it comes across as being a bit disenchanted IMO.

Doubling down on your ludicrous logic from last night’s live forum I see. Let me lay it out for you. Ancelotti inherited a squad from Silva. Last season he could only pick players from that squad. Add in injuries to a few players and he’s even more limited in who he can select. All of our squad should be good enough to play for Everton - that’s why they are here in the first place. If there are players who are regularly underachieving then what is he going to do? We can’t put out a team of 3 players because the manager decides that the others simply are not good enough. You have to select 18 players from the club to be the match-day squad. That’s it. So I’m sorry but you’re the one with the flawed logic if you keep criticising a manager who is giving opportunities to players - young and old - to turn a corner and prove themselves, when really it is those players that deserve the criticism for simply not being good enough to take their chance.

Michael Kenrick (111) is bang on the money; Kean simply had to start last night’s game. The fact that his performance only served to illustrate the reasons why he has been used so sparingly up to now is on Moise Kean and nobody else. Players need to take their opportunities. Gordon did. Nkounkou did. They proved themselves to be good enough. Kean is way behind.

Could be.

Graham #135

Good point. Smile and the whole world will smi!e with you.

This is an good thread, all the difference in opinions is what makes football so interesting, and although I might have been guilty of it myself in the past, I’m only ever dismissive about a footballer, if I see a lack of effort, and that’s why I’m not giving up on Moise Kean.

Gordon was great in patches, but I’m not sure the kid is ready because I think he switches off a little bit to often. But the more he plays, the more he will develop, and some of his forward play was very good.

Sometimes it’s about being patient, especially with the younger players. It’s easy being dismissive, I’ve done it myself with Theo Walcott, but that’s only because I see a lack of desire, and not because he lacks ability.

Being dismissive is actually not so easy. Because we all want every player to be a success. We all want to believe. But faced with evidence to the contrary I am not going to let desire and hope get in the way of reason; I'm going to be critical.

I view him, Nkounkou and Gordon as the big "winners" out of last night and potentially Sigurdsson (who is in direct competition with Gomes for a place in the team as it stands, Gomes didn't have his best game at the weekend). Nkounkou must be delighted with himself, he has basically progressed his career a year by showing that he can be an able understudy to Digne and us signing another left back doesn't look a great idea now.

The losers from last night for me were Kenny, Walcott, Bernard and Kean. I thought Kenny was trying too hard, he knew he had to perform and do something special and I think he knows that Coleman over the course of the season is definitely someone who can be shifted from the team. He isn't a young player anymore he has had a season being first choice RB in a top European league. He didn't do anything to convince me he should be considered over Seamus as it stands - I expected better. Walcott was so anonymous that I would be tempted to have a look at Bolasie as the backup for the RW ahead of him now and give him a go against Fleetwood. Theo has rightly been in and around the team as he has been the only natural option on the RW (Richy can do a job but is much, much better either up top or on the left). With James seemingly first choice there now and the potential for others to play out of position to cover it (Gordon, Richy, Iwobi, Bolasie!! etc...) he looks like a very expensive bench option and surely we will be looking to move him on. Bernard I don't think had a bad game to be honest, he is more a victim of the performance of Gordon. I don't see what the established pro and Brazilian international offers that we can't get from our young scouser and if I was to give one of them some minutes I know who would get them. I expect Gordon may make the bench for the weekend and Bernard is the most familiar player to him to likely miss out. Again from a cost perspective does he offer enough given the alternative options. Finally Kean, I think we have to be patient with him, playing up top on your own is a tough job there are plenty of examples of that, he needs more opportunities like this to boost his confidence and also get used to the responsibility. DCL didn't become the player he is now overnight and let's remember Kean is 3 years younger than him. That said only by dominating in games like this is he going to be trusted in that role in the premier league (It is no shock he got shunted to the wing when he came on against Spurs). He had the chances and didn't take them. One positive is he seemed to put more effort in and that seems to be an upward trend.

Anyway, I am delighted we drew another lower league team in the next round and hopefully we will see the majority of this line up again in that game, maybe less a few we have managed to get rid of.

I'm just not sure why some seem so eager to cut bait on him, like... what's the benefit? He's a relatively low earner and there will always be a market for him in Serie A. If he doesn't want to be here, then fair enough... but otherwise, why not see what Carlo can do with him over the course of a season in a stronger side?

Also if Tom Davies and JJK can't stand out and dominate against division 2 players they should be moved on.

Despite your long list of daft arsed excuses about him having no choice but to play Kean, Carlo himself (The one who you think can do no wrong ) thinks differently
The really funny thing here is, that Carlo is front and center of the group you dismiss as "Moise Kean apologist". There are numerous quotes from him extolling the virtues of his young talent. If only you had looked ?

The reason he has chosen him so often (as opposed to being forced to by last nights circumstances) is because he rates him.
He very recently told gathered press that he has THREE strikers available to him.

"I think Moise Kean has many qualities. He is a great talent and as I said before, football must surely be based on talent, which must be supported with great character, professionalism and personality. He is very young. He is a serious boy, helpful and will surely do well"

So there you have it. The flaw in your logic. The guy you are making excuses for, clearly thinks you are talking shite.

His all round game is obviously miles behind Calvert-Lewin - games like last night demonstrate just how good our favourite championship strikers all round game really is.

However

He does naturally seem to be around the right areas at the right time, which is one area that Calvert-Lewin seems to need to think about. If his header was 2 inches lower and his last shot 2 inches to the right then he has a hatrick and no one debates any of this.

I think there’s a player in there, but a completely different player to what we have now. He’ll turn out to be more of a poacher than a player and, with a bit of confidence, could be very useful.

Tell you what, let's pause this and talk at the end of the season. We'll find out exactly where we are on Moise Kean. My guess is that Kean will play less than 750 minutes in the Premier League (if he even stays here beyond the transfer window) - which would suggest that maybe Carlo doesn't actually think he's as incredible as you think he does. Seemingly nobody on these pages can change your mind about anything, but if I'm proved right then I'm hoping that time can.

Also, I'd appreciate if you didn't take that patronising "Oh dear" approach. It doesn't come off well.

Jonjo has the ability to perform, along with Seamus, to share the right back position this season and eventually make it his own, he did enough last night to make me confident he has a good future at Everton, especially playing with better and more responsible players around him.

Kevin@157-spot on...on all fronts.That's exactly how I see it.

But the boy has a nose for goal. He played really poorly last night, but still could have had three goals! He' putting himself in the right positions for success.

We need to be patient and not cut bait yet. Having said that, the kid needs to improve and buckle down. Someone should be fizzing balls into him at 100 mph and expecting him to keep them within inches of himself when he receives it, all the while regaling him with stories of one Romelu Lukaku.

It's too early to write the kid off. He's got to up his game though, soon.

Fair

And Niasse got a whole contract to come good!

Sigurdsson is a very good player. Just needs a strong central midfield behind him so he doesn't have to worry about Everton losing the ball and getting smashed the other way - he was always worried about this to me last year. He was played as some sort of 6/8 hybrid nonsense position - for lack of other options. Always trying to make sure we didn't give the ball away because it was obvious that if we turned it over there'd be noone quick and robust enough to save things before they got close to the defence and the goal - certainly Sigurdsson himself isn't, and he knew it. And he doesn't really have the pace to make many options for people to pass to him when they're coming out of defence - he's just way too slow to maraud around the middle of a pitch. So he was basically useless in terms of his own play.

(To me, tonight was somewhat (there were obviously differences - quality of opposition, etc) a microcosm of this dichotomy. First part of the game was a 6 - useless. Next part of the game was more of an 8 - a bit less useless. Last 20 minutes we thought we should go for it - Salford tired, if we got one more goal it would sure things up - Sigurdsson feels less unencombered and starts hanging out nearer a 10 position without worrying as much about defensive stuff - he does good things. His goal wasn't a big deal - but his movement for it was good - nothing crazy, but good. He played some good balls. Etc)

- Kean has all the poor attributes of Lukaku- poor touch, ponderous to build through- without the significant redeeming feature of an eye for a goal.

- Gordon looks like a talent, or at least he looked more so against this lowly level of opposition than anyone else on the park, excepting perhaps the left back. Whether he will ever be up against a right back as slow as Salford's is debatable.

- Mostly everything else is what we already know. Bernard and Siggy are not messiahs, they are no more than decent squad players who can do a job. If they are all you have, as was the case last year, you will struggle. Walcott is past playing even at that level and Davies hasn't even reached that level, and probably won't. Brutally put, those two are probably excess to requirements. Then there is all the other expensive flotsam and jetsam we have acquired; Iwobi, Tosun, Sandro, Besic, Bolasie, the list goes on. Problem is, which we also already know, while we have 6 or 7 we could do with moving on, few if any will have them at their current wages and certainly not anywhere close to the transfer fees we shelled out.

Maybe we could have a jumble sale. Or a buy 2 get 1 free offer...

We have a limited stable of forwards so he’s staying and getting cameos until either they yield great results, Calvert-Lewin needs resting or is injured. The key element here is when he is presented with the opportunity, he takes it. I think he will.

Similarly Sigurdsson only really became useful when Salford tired. He became prominent in the last 20 minutes, this is his role, teams either become fatigued or are searching for a goal, space frees up and he then becomes dangerous because he has time. Even last night he was passive and off the pace, but still has that set piece delivery that keeps him on the side.

The left side made a good fist of making a case and Virginia was unfussy, although untested. The rest were so poor; ball pace, control, static, wayward passing. It was all pretty turgid. Let’s be fair it was only when they tired we started peppering the woodwork.

They have some tine to think about their performance but this incarnation may well be back at it against Fleetwood in a weeks time. I’m expecting a lot better.

I'm more than happy to leave it there. I don't hold out much hope for Kean myself.

I suspect you are not old enough to have watched your own sons playing grown up football. or coached young lads trying their best to play well. If I'm right, One day you probably will. then you will understand the natural instinct to desperately want a boy who is struggling to come good.

You feel the term "Oh dear" is patronsing, but you have just dismissed people wanting to offer support to a struggling youngster as "apologists".

Carlo is not "Gilding the Lilly". As Conor quite rightly points out. He was an admirer of Kean before either of them even got here.

Dont be fooled by Carlo's "favourite uncle" persona. The guy can be fucking ruthless when the need arises. If he doesnt want a player who will fetch a fee. The player will be packed off in short order. Better players than Kean have found that out to their cost.

I hope we are both wrong. I hope young Kean bangs in so many goals, Carlos is forced to go to DCL and Rich and tell them to shape up or ship out

It would be interesting to see how Moise Keane got on in our stellar 4-3-3, with Richie on the left and Rodriguez on the right. Gomes, Allan, Doucoure behind him.

I am not advocating starting before DCL at all, but it would be good to see Kean play 20-30 mins if we were 2 or 3-0 up. It would be interesting to see his predatory instincts with that level of service around him.

For me , he is 20 and really needs more competitive games, with Juve so superior,he hadn’t really had that full on. He needs time to work on his game and improve. There is a player there, a strong bull of a predator but it is going to be a work in progress.

Patience is the quality that is needed with Moise, but sadly, it is a lost treasure and has become a thing of the past.

Everyone criticises, but it’s when people just criticise for the sake of it, rather than giving constructive criticism, or something we might learn from, that’s what I’ve never understood?

I used to play, and honestly used to get embarrassed if a coach said I’d played well, because I already knew if I’d played well, (twice a season) and I used to be even worse if I was told I’d played badly, because I also knew when I’d played shite.

That’s the point I’m trying to make, we only learn when people tell us why they are being dismissive, whilst indecision is usually just stringing someone along imo.

Kean is probably not smiling because he’s probably not happy with his game, I love football, because actions always speak louder than words!

John P #173, likewise.

I'm in the "keep Kean" contingent as well. Talent worth nurturing.

My take on it is he has a goalscorers instinct but is not suited to the Premier league where everything is closed down and players tightly marked so close control, retaining the ball and laying off to a teammate are all necessary qualities.

Regrettably Kean doesnt show me any of this. He is a head down, run at defenders and try to get round them or bulldoze the way through which obviously does not work even against lowly Salford. Technically he is not too bad but his attitude and awareness of other players is not good.

People say "If only that header would have gone in" and I have to tell you that even at 69 years of age I could and should bury that header with only the GK to beat. To head it onto the bar was very poor.

Brandthwaite is 18 and Gordon is 20 we don't have to make excuses for them because their quality and attitude shows.

Last season I was all for being patient with Italy's potential superstar but on the basis of 90 minutes against lowly Salford I'm afraid this kid will not make the breakthrough.

This should be his role, coming on against teams who are either tired or chasing the game and putting the game to bed. In this scenario - he is still an excellent squad player.

I couldn’t understand the criticism of Bernard, except for his wastefulness, in the final third considering his quality, So I was very surprised to hear Jerome, had to look at his stats, to be impressed because I thought it was the little Brazilian, who constantly tried to get on the ball, and kept us playing all night. (He will become a much better player, playing with our new additions imo)

Jonjoe is basic, nothing flash, nothing extravagant, rarely wastes the ball with his passes, put it on a six-pence for Moise Kean to miss, and is hopefully going to be the unsung-hero, in a similar way both Carragher & Neville became to both their home-town clubs.

Big teams need that local identity on the pitch, and if we can sign another good wideman, I’m predicting we might just become one of those big teams again. At least I’m dreaming now - anyway!

Richarlison doesn't smile very often on the pitch, and he has a very serious resting concentration face.

So Kean doesn't smile when he scored, he probably accepted that one goal, given to him by Siggy who normally would have taken the penalty, would not have matched up to the three he should have had if he hadn't hit the post.

A more accurate reflection of the kid's reaction to scoring a goal would be his celebration after scoring against Newcastle. Passionate and exuberant.

Also, why is smiling so important to some people when things are still tough for the kid and yet smiling is the death knell when Pickford is trying to shake off a mistake and prepare himself for the next time he is called into action.

If Kean wants to have a serious look on his face whilst knocking them in then I'm cool with that. I'm more interested in how the rest of the team reacts when he scores, and they are reacted well showing a close knit group.

I did have to look at the stats to see what others had seen and that I hadn't watching the same match, on a mini screen. Glad I did since those stats show a player that will be able to make a valuable contribution to the first team squad.

I was concentrating on final third play.

Kris #185

It's the perception it gives. It would help with the perception people have of him. I think that he is a player with a lot to offer, it would help gets fans on his side, which would also benefit him.

The penalty was well taken.

I saw nothing but positivity and a massive strengthening of the squad that the new arrivals have brought. Jonjoe Kenny and NKounku were massive pluses. I found nobody disappointing in Wednesday's team.

Sigurdsson played really well but unfortunately will never fit into a modern squad, Tom Davies hasn't reached his potential yet and gives the ball away dangerously but his time will come. Gordon is like us having bought a £40M player for nothing.

This transfer window has been devastatingly good for us and if we could get a central defender on loan could be perfect.

Kean? Just get off his back and see how it goes with him, he has the potential to become good in a position where most develop late and few are successful at 20. If Carlo rates him, then he's good enough for me.

His move to us is going down the pan and there are only so many chances you get at new clubs before you get moved down the pecking order of clubs interested in you and thus down the salary scale and it's a long if not impossible journey back. He won't want this to go wrong.

Wanting the penalty is, in my view, one of the few positive aspects of his contribution last night. At least he didn't shy away.

Is there a player in him? There might be despite last night when frankly he looked a bit desperate, over hyper. I can't see it being as a hold-up player who can guard the ball, lay it off. It might be as a player feeding off runs and through balls where he has some pace and power to offer. Same as Rom really. Or Vardy in Leicester's winning year. We may not have seen much of it but I can imagine he has a decent shot on him if he's in the mood so could maybe flourish in that type of set up.

But that is not, from what I can see, the gameplan we have right now so he might be a square peg in a round hole.

I was interested when you mentioned Bernard because, watching the game last night, I thought he'd been our most industrious player, but I agree, he's got to become much better in the final third.

I thought Gordon played in patches, but he helped create a number of chances, and that's definitely what you want off these type of players. I can understand the people who were more impressed with “young Anthony” whilst Everton are hopefully going to become more entertaining than watching The Sopranos!

I listened to last night's game, and some of the players who were considered to have played well, have been crucified on this thread. Experience has taught me that we can go to the same match and see a different game.

I must confess that I expected Everton to win comfortably, but experience has also taught me that anything can happen in a game of football. There are some players that I favour more than others, and I may be critical, but not to the extent of some on this site.

My take on things is that anyone who earns his living playing football, can do exactly that, 'play football'. As I have stated I have my favourites, but I defy anyone to find a post where I have vilified any Everton player.

At games I experience elation, deflation, pleasure, frustration, but the most important thing to me is the fact that I offer support to those players who wear the 'Royal Blue' shirt, irrespective of favouritism, or otherwise.

There were a good number of people on this site who said Lukaku was a waste of £28M, I promise you!!

My only worry is up front. I'm a big fan of Calvert-Lewin, I think he will be as good a centre forward as Graeme Sharp, but if he's injured do we really believe Moise Kean could replace him? I've seen nothing to convince me he has what it takes. I'm fact I've seen nothing in nearly 40 appearances

Kean needs to relax his feet, as Michael said in 111 this was the perfect game play him. Bernard and Sigurdsson if they are squad players shows good depth to me. Feels like we have a good blend of experience and youth in the squad now.

My own take on things is that it’s dead easy to criticise, but if you want people to listen and learn, you’ve got to earn their respect. You’ve got to show them you know what you’re on about, and also that you care. Sadly I never met that many, once I moved away from playing with my mates, because football is absolutely brutal.

I think most people give credit to players who have played well, whereas they are naturally critical of those who haven't. And that's entirely as it should be on a forum like this.

As far as I can tell, football's always been like that. It's about summing up what you've seen and what your reaction was to seeing them play.

Of course, if you deliberately don't actually watch them play, then you might not be in the best place to judge for yourself how they played, or how reasonable and justified the views are of those who did actually take the trouble to watch them play.

I came to the same conclusion about Moise Kean before Souness, after witnessing his earliest appearances for us. My nephew sat next to me in the Gwladys Street stand pleaded his case, complaining that Kean wasn't being fed enough by his team mates.

I pointed out that it was his lack of positional awareness and inability to create space for himself off the ball, which made it impossible for others to pass to him. It meant he was easily marked, or found himself continually turning and dribbling into dead ends, as soon as he received a pass.

Moise has shown absolutely nothing in the ensuing months to convince me otherwise. People who are attempting to make a case for him, are clutching at straws. He has an athletic frame, devoid of a football brain. To compare him to Lukaku is absurd.

Excuses about a young lad in a foreign land are nonsense. He's living in the lap of luxury, with a manager who speaks his native tongue. What more could any young man ask for?

He was quite simply yet another costly mistake. Iwobi is another who falls into the same category. Arsenal mugged us. I bet they couldn't believe their luck at the fee we paid for him.

It's a long list of deadwood. I don't need to name the rest. Their performances speak for themselves. Carlo's priority should be focussing on shifting them quickly and bringing in players of similar quality to our magnificent recent signings.