West Ham win Europa Conference League Final

So who's up for a Moyes love-in?

I'm not sure how much interest there is in this, very much the most junior, least historied of the European trophies. But Moyes is getting good press for getting his team to the final.

From 8 pm on BT Sport 1 and with Radio commentary on BBC 5 Live.

I'm convinced Fiorentina will win, as I've long believed Moyes to be a good manager who just isn't quite good enough to actually win things!

And despite what some say, I'd be over the moon to see us in and then win this competition!

Remember how the old Big 4 used to mock the "Thursday night cup" then City and Spurs came along and suddenly those teams who laughed at it were all excited about getting to the final of the Europa League!

The same thing will happen with the Conference, eventually the likes of United Chelsea, etc will play in this competition and it will be valued.

It's also on BT Sport YouTube too, Michael, for those that haven't got a subscription to BT Sport 1 and I believe the Champions League on Saturday will also be shown on the YouTube channel.

The West Ham fans are treating it as a major trophy, I'm not sure whether I want the 'English' team to win, as I usually do, apart from the obvious exception, but I think the Italians may be too strong for the Hammers.

To give him credit, Lee, he did win a trophy with us that many forget. Probably because it couldn't be more meaningless. In fact … I've forgotten what it was now.

I hope Moyes manages to win a trophy. I bear him no ill will. He left us in a much better state than when he came in and that can't be said for any of our last 7 managers.

Got a little excited Hammered the post button

Are we forgiving Hammers now that we survived? I don’t know maaan I like Rice but there aren’t many on that team I can get behind. Lame ass pregame guitar show that’s for sire.

I always want English teams to win except for that shower across the park. So c’mon WHU do it for Alf Garnett.

Not so much for Moyes as I eventually didn't like him as an Everton manager. Alongside Kenwright, he played down our expectation.

But I don't mind West Ham and have a few mates who are die hard supporters, so I wish them well.

In a season or two, hopefully we will be in their position.

Okay, come on Hammers

Forgot about Amrabat, decent footballer.

Pretty spicy game, can't find that quote from the Italian manager about making cynical tackles if caught by the Hammers' counter-attack…

I'd like WHU to win as it will be their first trophy since1980 FA Cup. I don't mind Hammers fans, just the owners and them getting a huge free stadium.

So a West Ham win would be 'revenge' for Fiorentina beating Everton in penalties way back when? If only I'd known…

A big mistake for Antonioa to pop back up like it was 1955.

Stay down if yer fouled, lad.

Between the Italians feigning injury or Moyes’ shock at that no call I’m having trouble picking the worst acting.

Neither it was Benrahma for that shitty dive when he could have reached the ball in the box.

Michael - yes, and no.

Not really arsed, either way!

Bill, we've suffered that and it's not the answer.

Okay, I over-reacted.

Why? What happened?

MK forgot that Thatcher was dead for a minute and thought that English clubs might be banned from Europe after Hammers fans chucked things at the Italian lads, blood dripping…

Just ban them or strip them if they win.

Don't repeat Heysels when we all suffered because of Lucifer's children.

Bitter, twisted an proud.

And I'll tell them that to their face.

I don't think that we can compare Heysel to a little blood dripping after a pissed Chigwell lad actually hit his target.

Had Biraghi been facing the crowd, rather than the other way round, that lighter (I think it was a lighter) could easily have caught him in the eye.

Could get feisty this second half if Fiorentina take the lead, and their goalie could come under serious attack from plastic glasses.

Okay Paul. I get carried away.

I'll never forgive them.

Just seen it, Paul, luckily the Fiorentina lad didn't make a big deal of it.

Now, Salah….

Me neither Danny. I was peak age footy fan in 1985-1986. I was being a little prim and proper at #34.

A European final and neither manager wears a suit and tie. Damn.

It's not really a suit and tie stadium Dale!

Dale - dress-down Wednesday.

Do West Ham fans sing?

Only when they blow bubbles.

How come The Hammers nicked Michael Jackson's theme tune anyway?

Ref is totally immune to the Ities bitching and moaning. As it should be.

Don :-O

I've seen Moyes 1-0 up in a final before

Well taken goal there 1-1

That happened then as well .

Very well-taken goal. Fantastic control.

That would’ve been a great goal. Fiorentina all over them

I remember Fiorentina knocked us out from EUEFA cup at GP when Dour Dave was at Everton.

Rather Moyesish that one.

That should keep OFM at West Ham for a while.

And Biraghi played him on.

The tactical mastery of Moyes prevails.

Florence have been shocking these last five minutes.

Well done David Moyes...pleased for him.

Fergie time.

Congratulations David. Well done Hammers. Gonna kick yer ass in a few months though

Brendan, his efforts for so long merit it.

Well done Davey Moyes, made up for him!

Well done Moyes. Made up for him.

Well done, David. I was fed up of him by the end but like an earlier poster said, he did leave us in a far better position than what he found us in.

His career probably deserved a major trophy to look back on.

Never seen Moyes dance. He's better than Eugene thought!

Made up for Moysie,deserves it. Last time there was sanity at our club,he was in charge.

Pleased for Moyes. I only started supporting Everton around 2000 so for me the Moyes years and indeed his turnaround of the club has been the best I’ve known.

Those who dismiss Europe as a distraction.

Watch those West Ham fans and players.

Remember Rotterdam.

Fantastic stuff.

And some don't want this?

Well, congrats old friend. Well-deserved.

Danny, it's great... and actually being there is something else. The commitment nowadays though, is massive for teams.

Evertonians are in no position at all to dismiss Europe. It's irrelevant for us. It's so far away. Those of us who were at Rotterdam can only shake our heads.

In the words of BK 'what a manager ' !! . Seriously though I'm pleased for Wee Davy Moyes

BT need to do a bit of research……..they are all saying it’s West Ham’s first major honour in 58 years. In terms of Europe, yes, but they won the FA Cup in 1980. A mere 43 years ago.

Moyes finally cracked the code. Congrats to him

Danny @75

Of course we'd be happy to win anything at all domestic or European, but Savage and co made it sound as if the Hammers were the cream of Europe in their commentary tonight, I'm not fussed about the Hammers or David Moyes, he used to be here, he isn't any longer. Only saving grace tonight was that the Italian team were hugely dis-likeable and I'm glad they lost.

The thing that really should concern Evertonians is that was the Hammers third European final, whilst we have only managed one.

They should never have been in that final Rob mate.

Paul, always a chance - the Hammers just did it...

But I know what you mean :-(

Sigh, Will, three years, now four, on the trot in Europe Will.

Not a patch on Rotterdam this.

Let’s be honest other than one season of Martinez we’d kill to be Everton 2004-2010

Well done to Moyes and West Ham.
If only…

Nice looking trophy.

The Moyes team of 2007/08 would probably have got us CL football at least once over these last few years!

We played some great football that year.

I guess it is big for their fans right now though.

It felt massive back in the day, 80s, it was right on the back of the time when the whole European thing really grew, sort of outshone the World Cup and everything else.

Champions of fecking what

We were younger Will.

Paul # 84………yep, a game we should have won, certainly at Villa Park, despite having Brian Kidd sent off.

Paul, shhh... still am.

Paul Ferry

Always liked your posts but don’t kid on your not a bit jealous of West Ham tonight. I am because it’s the sort of night in our grasp whereas Saturday night is la la land

I loved the Lee years Rob, and that game was a true highlight. I can still hear Barry Davies at Elland Road.

Oh I am, Graham, and sadly it takes me back not forwards for now at any rate.

I'm made up for Moyes, and for a couple of mates who are diehard Hammers fans. It's a proper club with a proper local fan base, like us.

I'd love a bit of what they're feeling tonight.

"Champions" is still a tad OTT Graham!

I was 18 in Rotterdam I am now 56 and unfortunately I am not sure I will experience that or what WHU are experiencing tonight again.
Still blame Yakubu for that stupid penalty against Fiorentina we would have won it that year

“Bowen’s on fire and he’s shagging Dani Dyer”. What a great song. Well done WHU.

I get that Paul but they’ve won a comp they entered. If that was Everton I’d be going fucking crazy

Whenever looking back at Lee's time (and even Bingham's to a point) our record is better than it felt at the time. Even before Kendall, it puts recent times to shame, honours or not.

But too much reminiscing...

Great to see Davey happy and dancing on the pitch like that. He deserves it. I've always had a soft spot for West Ham having been to Upton Park a lot as a teenager in the 80's with my old mate Stu (RIP) who was a big Hammer.

Great for the club too. We'd all love it to be us.

Me, too, Graham.

Is this the same Moyes you’re all congratulating that slithered off to old Trafford while he was still our manager then come back for our better players saying we’re holding them back or words to that affect

Delighted for the West Ham fans, who have waited a very long time for a night like this. Bowen the match winner also proving that there is sometimes a lot more value in buying tough little players out of the championship, rather than from most other leagues.

Moysey finally winning a trophy. Second time lucky against Fiorentina. Reckon if we had beat them on pens in 2008 we'd have gone on to win it with a better side then than this West Ham one.

Well done West Ham, and let’s see if this success is a driver for further success, for them.

It’s no mean feat to win that Conference League.

Yep Rotterdam, seems a lifetime ago, but hope eternal, for Everton.

But this summer is key, in terms of Everton starting fresh, with a new board and chairman, and perhaps CEO.

UTFTs!

One or two mentions about our game against Fiorentina a few years back. Most annoying thing about that first leg was that after going 1-0 down with about twenty minutes to go, Moyes seemed to panic and threw Andy Johnson on, in the hope of getting an equaliser. He should have just accepted the 1-0 defeat, and finished the job back at Goodison. I agree with Kunal in that we probably would have gone on to win the Europa League back in 2008.

Finaly took an AK47 to the gunfight,Well done Davie Moyes.

I agree with Kunal too. That 2008 game kind of summed up life as an Evertonian. Probably the best performance of that decade.

Everton were brilliant on the night in a cauldron atmosphere. My mate literallly threw me up in the air when Arteta scored. If we'd made it 3 nil on the night and gone through, that team with Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar, Yak etc I agree would've had a great chance of winning the final. The eventual winners, Zenith St Petersburg, had been defeated at Goodison in the group game. All ifs and buts and if only. So disappointed after that game.

Well done to Moyes. Hopefully written in the stars for him. The opposition in the 3rd tier Euro competition is relatively weak and if we can build over the next couple of years and aim for 7th, then surely it's a competition we can aspire to win. If West Ham can do it, surely we can too if and when we get our act together.

Bearing in mind for a moment this is an Everton fan site, well done David Moyes and West Ham United. As for it being a “major trophy” win Everton under Kenwright & Co could only dream of such mediocrity. Good times.

Genuinely believe once Kenwright and his mates relieve ties with this club we'll start moving again in the right direction. Very soon hopefully.

God bless the Moyesiah, a winner at last!
he deserves that.

I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the fact the board and Moshiri caved to a few teens that posted bedsheets saying “no to Moyes” outside of Goodison. For me this shows the boards complete incompetency, trying to win a popularity contest instead of having the conviction and leadership to do what they believed was to be right and take the flak as a leader knowing that comes with the territory. I think Moshiri then decided to do that when it came to Benitez but got it horribly wrong. Then they came out and said “well we listened to the fans last time and it didn’t work”. What fans did they listen to exactly. Idiots. Don’t get me wrong I was very torn on bringing Moyes back, he took the piss the last season.

To add, we had an identity under Moyes which we’ve lost for years. I think Sean Dyche is bringing it back. I could be wrong, and many will disagree but that’s my take. Made a few bad decisions but had us playing good football at times in a tough relegation battle. The lads def had more fighting spirit.

Dan

I agree the board shouldn’t be swayed. But the bedsheet brigade was when Lampard came along. The resistance to Moyes was rightly or wrongly much broader. I recall Lyndon did an article on here called The Spectre of Moyes discussing the widespread reluctance of fans to see Moyes return.

You’re right Kieran. A lot of it is the benefit of hindsight. Hell Big Sam had us in the top half of the table (as he did Newcastle), would we have stooped as low as last season? I guess at at this point it doesn’t matter. I think the board did get it right appointing Dyche, I just hope they get it right in terms of recruitment and backing him to be the best he can be.

Depends on your age as well. I’m mid-40s so can relate to the dogs of war mentality you get with a Moyes and Dyche. My old man was a season ticket holder in the 50s and 60s and used to tell me I had no idea how good they were back then (compared to the 90s)

Dan

I’m the same age as you so agree on the Royle Moyes Dyche comparison. I’m slightly nervous going all in on Dyche after six months after the Lampard experience but the signs are very positive

As a person who had long been posting that Moyes is a ‘born loser’, I am disappointed that my prediction has not come true. I liked what Moyes did in the 1st 5 years at Everton, but his latter years were painful to say the least. He never had the belief that he could win the big games - no wins in 44 tries at Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea says it all.
Having said that, everyone deserves the chance to celebrate glory, and I am happy for Moyes to have experienced that finally.
The only problem I have with this trophy win is that in some eyes, the legend of Moyes will grow even bigger! Maybe our board will be thinking about bringing him in as Director of Football? No….. please …. no!

Fair do's, well done David Moyes, he deserved that, but there is a part of me that is not envious, or jealous, just a head turning moment to look at Bill Kenwright. Its just disgraceful that we now have a team such as West Ham that we are looking to as a winning side. We have been left so far behind its shameful. I don't blame the players, don't blame the managers, I blame the people who bought the players and brought in the managers.

Its a night of success for West Ham, I have listened to hours of Hammers fans singing and crowing on Talksport, its sickening. Just drives home how badly run we have been..

So well done David Moyes and West Ham..a great win, savour the moment, it will keep you warm for the next 43 years!

PS.. I still wouldn't want David Moyes back..

Good luck to him. A manager that for us, had more successes than failures in the transfer market on a shoestring budget, had the team fit,organised and hard to beat. Something that hasn't happened since his departure.

I'm pleased for West Ham and spoke to a now Texas based, life-long Irons supporter last night (UK time).

On Moyes and Everton, I'll echo the sentiment. He was good for what he needed in the first part of his tenure. But then he ran out of ideas. For the sake of balance, he was (un)supported by a weak board with no vision.

A match made in heaven as we had the expectation beaten out of us. Both in their comfort zone.

I will draw parallels. Manchester City started with Mark Hughes. But it was a stepping stone and he wasn't given 11 years, because they had ambition and moved on. Went through the gears.

Our board enjoyed the status quo because they had no ambition and were in their comfort zone.

Then we tried to go from first gear to sixth. There was no progression.

Well, there has been nothing comfortable about recent seasons. In fact, for me, there was nothing comfortable about most of the Moyes years. It was mostly painful to watch. I guess that is a personal or generational thing.

Each to their own and well done West Ham. I think it was only weeks since there was talk of their manager not being there next season. Anything is possible in football. Ask Wimbledon. Ask Luton. Keep believing.

I agree with Christine and wouldn't want him back. I don't even think that is in discussion. Especially once this board is removed, which is coming.

And the 90s were awful. Dreadful and depressing when you add the context we had not long been league champions unlike now.

Dyche should be good for us for now. But we will need to move on at some point and not wait 11 years. I think he can stabilise us. But I don't just want stability. I want Everton to compete.

Over to the seemingly new owners / investors.

Delighted for Dour Davie. He has at last got his pot. Even pleased for all those Irons who have been starved of silverware for longer than us.

It will be interesting Eddie.

There will now be expectation to push on.

Historically, that is where Moyes falls down. When the expectation is on.

I read rumours that he is on his way to Celtic. Last night may have changed that, but as we know more than many, he doesn't do well with the weight of expectation.

I could be proven wrong. And I'm talking about a relative!! I think you could classify us as second cousins.

Well done Moyes. Having seen no success but the 95 FA Cup win I can't help but be a bit jealous. I hope the club rethinks its approach to cup football from here. I want trophies. I want European matches.

Rob @ 81, they've actually won the FA Cup twice since that European win 58 years ago. Who needs researchers.

Well done Moysie and a great night for the Hammers supporters. A great celebration for them when the team bring the cup home.
He brought in some top class players for us; but usually had to sell them. The "knfe to a gunfight" expression he used, I think expressed his frustration that our club was going nowhere...a bit of mid table mediocrity would do the club and he knew it. I'm glad for him.

Robert once the club get rid of the present Chairman and Board, I think we'll have a club that will have a board with ambition, drive and know how to achieve results. At least that's my fervent hope for when we're in our new home!

Danny @ 129, I struggle to get on board with this theory that Moyes lowered our expectations.
Personally, by the end of his tenure, my expectation was that we would be in the mix for European qualification every season. Because of this, I wanted Martinez sacked for 2 mid-table finishes.
As you said previously, this may be a generational thing. I’m too young to remember the last time we were fighting for titles. Given how we have regressed since he went to Man U, I tend to view the Moyes era as some kind of golden period…

David # 133, I am also too young to remember the genuine success of the 1980s. So I tend to view Moyes era Everton as sustained relative success too. Aside from Moyes and a few false dawns it's mostly been chaos and crap football for 35 years.

Last night’s result should offer some hope that with proper management at all levels we can get out of our current problems and taste success in the not too distant future.

For our former manager, he prevailed after many years of adversity. A victory for perseverance and for keeping going during the bad times. We can do the same.

Andrew # 131 Yes, I do remember that, but what I actually meant was the last major trophy, or any kind of trophy West Ham won, was in 1980. BT reporters / commentators were saying the first major trophy win in 58 years. I think they then realised their mistake and corrected themselves to first European trophy in 58 years. Whatever!!

A good point David. I remember when Moyes came and Walter Smith's reign ending, in us being on the verge of relegation. Moyes came in and re ignited the club and the supoporters. He gas a good eye for talent and brought us up the division to expect to be in or around the european places.

I think the frustration many of us felt was the perception that the club felt we'd done fine. A a sort "punching above our weight" little club reputation. My view is that this glass ceiling was down to the fact that we couldn't compete fianascially with the so called "big clubs" included Spurs who hadn't won the bloody league since 1961/62. Man United also hitting a golden period.

It was like that the season became a sort of forgone conclusion, that we'd generally get beat at the "big clubs" grounds and sett;le for a battle of "best of the rest"

The real problem, is the Chairman at the time, a Mr Kenwright, was happy to have a cosy litlle club punching valiantly against big hitters.

Once Moyes decided to go and Kenwright found his Golden Goose, the rest, as they say, is history. Bit of bloody disastrous regime bring us to the verge of relegation...continously

Andrew (131) surely the order of trophies for West Ham was FA Cup ---> Cup Winners Cup ----> FA Cup ?

The reporters on the game last night had it right before, and during the game regarding how long since West Ham won a European trophy - they were all caught up in the emotion after the game and said "a trophy" a few times. It was just a mistake.

I don't understand why people get so upset about people making mistakes. Players, pundits, reporters, everyone makes mistakes and gets pounced on these days as though they've committed a war crime.

Still don't want Moyes back. Ever.

Nobody wants Moyes back - that's not the point of the thread. It's about West Ham winning last night.

Personal perspective David.

I recall Moyes choking when it mattered. I'll call out the Wigan FA Cup match and that semi final against them when they where there for the taking.

His demeanour, in my interpretation, became one of "don't expect too much". It sat well with Kenwright.

I don't expect Everton to win titles, the FA Cup or European trophies every year. But I expect us to be competing.

I won't re-quote Sir John Moores' fine words, but Everton expects.

I grew up living off tales of the 60s and witnessed the 80s. I appreciated not all have been fortunate enough and I desperately feel for you and want you to have that.

I've said before, travelling back on the train after winning the FA Cup in 1984, a rather inebriated man sat opposite me kept waking up and saying 14 years.

He was relating to since, at the time, the last time we had won a trophy (the league).

Now it's going to be nearly 30 years. And not too far off approaching 40 years since our last league triumph.

The club did set itself in a position of mediocracy and lowering of expectation and many accepted it. Most of us have all been guilty at some point.

Some would call it realism. I call it lack of ambition and vision.

I don't want the Moyes years. I want the 60s and the 80s reincarnated in the modern era.

If City can do it given their start point, why can't Everton?

Unless we get 3bn of investment, we won't be doing a city or competing.

Oh, and I would have Moyes back. Not that he would come.

Well done to him though for winning.

What would you prefer Finn, £3 Billion investment or unadulterated professionalism?

I prefer we could compete against every team we play; that we didn't right off games against City, Liverpool, united etc

I'd love that too Finn but something tells me that the return of Moyes wouldn't help towards that end.

Brian @ 138, it was FA Cup ---> Cup Winners Cup ----> FA Cup ---->FA Cup

1964 FA Cup
1965 Cup Winners Cup
1975 FA Cup
1980 FA Cup

West Ham United were formed in 1895 under another name so last night was their fifth trophy in all those years since then so no wonder they celebrated like they did and I couldn’t begrudge them or Moyes their special night, it was a trophy and that was all they were interested in, like we will when we get one,no matter which after such a long time with nothing to celebrate except escaping relegation.

Quite right Andrew (and apols). I'd completely forgotten that 1975 win over Luton. I think I was in a teenage sulk that year because we'd had the League on a plate and fucked it up!

The take away for me watching the delight of all concerned at West Ham is it doesn't matter how naff the trophy is (and in truth I've never heard of this competition) supporters crave silverware. It is the reason why people turn up.

Why our managers - Moyes did it as well - play weakened teams in the only competitions we have a shot at, the cups, is beyond me. The demise of Lampard began by playing silly buggers in the cup at Brentford.

Not arsed about the hammers and Moyes in any way shape or form except as an example to Dyche to take the cups seriously.

Seems to be some bitterness at Moyes success but I remember when anyone who had been at Goodison was always given at least a round of applause except Jimmy Gabriel who, on his return with Southampton, was given at least a 20 minute chant of his name alone. We remember our own.

Apparently winning this cup nets about £14 million quid and gets the winning club into next season's Europa League group stage. Win that and you're in the CL the season after. The problem is generally speaking it's an also rans competition since you enter it by finishing 7th in the PL. This usually indicates that your club has a decent side but lack the squad quality and depth for a top four CL place. On the down side qualification means having to play games against obscure European clubs on Thursday nights which impacts on a clubs bread and butter PL campaign. Picking up injuries and tiring your players. Aston Villa will be in it next season so lets see if it affects their PL form. I suppose it will depend on how much effort they are prepared to put into making a realistic bid to win it. Or will they just put out weakened sides to concentrate on the PL?

I don’t begrudge David Moyes his trophy, well done to him.

However, my feelings about him are rather mixed. He signed some very good professionals and had us playing OK for a while. But he badly mis-managed the young Wayne Rooney, he had an annoying tendency to bring on a third centre back to bolster the defence (it often had the opposite effect), and the manner of his leaving our club was very shabby. And I was never convinced by the tough guy, Fergie, image he tried to portray.

He has been very well remunerated for being an average manager.

I’ve always had a bit of a liking for West Ham, we are similar clubs in some ways, and I enjoyed visiting the Boleyn Ground, so congratulations to them, too.

Barry @ 150 agree with you completely. I don't get why managers play poor sides in cups - especially when they don't have the squad depth - but even, they shouldn't. Play your best, play to win. I think Aston Villa will go for it. Why not?

I thought and hoped that there would be big changes the minute the season ended. And so far, nothing. I have a horrible feeling that it'll be Weghorst as the only striker in on August 30th... but that's another thread...

As is this - who will be our shirt sponsor next season... will it be stake again???

Much like the F.A. cup many bottom tier teams start out in this competition so winning it is of little value.

When a shit team with a shit manager wins it you know how much prestige it holds.

Without Rice I doubt West Ham would win anything,

Peter (153), a good post Peter and I agree about Moyes, in fact I disliked him after a couple of seasons he was manager of Everton, agree completely of how he mis-managed Wayne Rooney, and could go on about my dislike for the dour Scotsman but watching him last night he was like a young supporter when West Ham scored their goals and at the end of the game so that was the main reason I couldn’t begrudge him, his team and supporters their very special, to them, cup win.

Anyway Peter that’s enough of West Ham and co how did your young grandsons do in their end of season games, won a cup or two I hope?

Delighted for Moyes and the West Ham fans I've met / worked with etc. Many a game at the old Boleyn when I ended up in the Queens(?) pre and post match. Defo not an away pub! Tbf only went in if we drew or lost.

They were also at risk of relegation, up until 2 or 3 games left. Sometimes a cup run gives the players that bit of morale that can carry over into the league struggle. 1995?

And agree with those who said any trophy would do (spoken as someone who witnessed our 3-4 defeat to Palace in the ZDS at Wembley).

What last night was two proper teams with long suffering trophyless fans. Shame for La Viola but somebody has to lose,

Matt @157 - 3 - 4 defeat to Palace? Think it was 4 -1. I remember it well, April 91. We lost 3-4 to Forest in 89 I think, but wasn't that the Full Members/Simod cup?

Peter
I must protest at the description of him as an 'average manager'. We've just flushed over half a billion down the drain and employed some of the best managers in the world in the last few years. None of them had the record Moyes had here, and he wasn't given one penny to invest in the team. Any transfers he made he had to generate himself from player sales. And we stayed up this year thanks to a goal scored by Seamus Coleman, still giving outstanding service a decade after his manager had departed.
I know some bemoan his departure, but actually, he didn't even break his contract. how many people can you say that about in the modern era? And he left us for a team he would always regard as a step up from. here, can't blame him for that after 12 years in the hot seat.
I think the main reason Evertonian are lukewarm, is that despite his many talents, he just wasn't a natural winner. but few are. I think you are right, he's not like Fergie, and he did like to play up the hard man image and it wasn't really convincing. He can't hide the fact that he 's just not ruthless enough. But in my view he was a terrific employee of Everton Football Club. I compare the club now to the club he left and it's like night and day, and that. was entirely down to his professionalism.

Absolutely delighted for David Moyes, not so much for some of the hooligan element that is still there in their fans as it was when we played them in the League Cup final, as all a section of their fans wanted to do is cause trouble.

I know some of our fans never liked Moyes but for me he was better than every manager who followed him except Ancelotti, and even the most decorated manager in football had his critics here. The others that followed Moyes didnt have his ability to spot some top class talent, and just like Dyche, Moyes’s team always gave 100%. Had he had the financial backing that Koeman got, I doubt we would still be trophyless.

Many criticize him for walking out on Everton and joining Man Utd or for trying to buy Fellaini and Baines but didn't care when Silva brought Richarlison from his old club.

Kevin #160, to clarify, the “average” comment was on David Moyes's career overall.

He did well at Preston, did well at Everton for a number of years before stagnating, was a disaster at Manchester Utd, woeful at Real Sociedad, struggled at basket-case Sunderland, and has been up and down at West Ham.

Just my opinion, I respect yours.

Dave#156, Charlie's Under-9s season ended in a cup final defeat on penalties in a game they should have won. The development of the two teams he plays for has been incredible over 2 seasons, and most importantly they are a great set of lads who respect each other, referees and opponents- it's great to see.

Sam, in the Under 7s, is coming along nicely. They have just finished their first season and, having started off like ants, everyone running after the ball, are now playing some nice, structured football. Sammy is all left foot, always trying to play a pass, and can strike a dead ball very well. I keep telling him about a certain Mr Sheedy but he just looks at me blankly.

We'd all love to be in the Hammers' position now, it might only be the European Conference League, but I bet they don't care and neither would we.
Bayern Munich apart, they beat better teams than we did in 1985.

I'm pleased for Moyes finally getting a trophy. It also shows, with better direction and management, what we could have done over the last few years.

Im pleased for Moyes that he finally has a trophy for all the hard workhe has put in in football but I thought West HAm were very fortunate to win that game, a highly dubious penalty and a breakaway summed up Moyes KITAP1 approach which Fiorentina dominated and scored a disallowed goal and had a reasonable claim for just as dodgy a penalty as the one given against them.

I thought their fans were a disgrace cutting the Fiorentins players head with constant missiles being thrown onto the pitch.

If that was us Eufa would be throwing the book at us and the media would be having a feast.

Peter - I am with you - very good posts.

David Moyes fingerprints are on the demise of Everton as surely as anyone since - just not overtly. His cosy non-challenging relationship with the board and chairman, his lowering of expectations and his departure behaviour were just as selfish and self-serving as any.

Don't judge him on what came after - judge him on the standard the club should be at - on any measure average is then a more than fair judgement.

Ken @165. Moyes had us regularly top 7 with very little money. Trying to blame him for our current demise is quite frankly crazy.

Tom,

"Much like the FA Cup many bottom tier teams start out in this competition so winning it is of little value."

This will be why Man City are focused only on beating Inter Milan – so they can celebrate the double.

Kevin#160.

And we stayed up this year thanks to a goal scored by Seamus Coleman,

You'll have to explain that one to me Kevin as I'm sure it was Doucoure who scored the goal that kept us up.

If you're using the argument "If Seamus hadn't scored that goal, we'd not have won” etc etc – that could be applied equally to McNeil or Tarkowski

Our identity under Moyes was plucky little Everton, punching above their weight.

We were honest even if the narrative was normally a load of absolute shite when you base it against the wage bill of the time.

Eleven years, no trophies and clapped out of Goodison Park by thousands of Evertonians. Him and Kenwright did a great job in destroying what Everton Football Club had always stood for.

Moyes left us a decent team but I could just imagine the Manchester United fans watching last night and, after seeing David proudly holding his medal, thinking how badly wrong Alex Ferguson was getting their club to appoint David Moyes.

Football is about levels and David Moyes reached the pinnacle of his career last night.

Brian

if we draw the game against leeds we are down. It was a goal out of nothing, entirely down to the boy's persistence and skill and against one of the rivals for the drop. We weren't scoring in that game before or after he intervened.

https://twitter.com/WestHam/status/1666717195907264520

Kevin you could use the same argument as that with regard to the McNeill or Tarkowski goals, or a number of others.
Relegation isn't down to what happens in one game mate, it's what happens over the course of the season.

So you would go with unadulterated professionalism then Finn?

I’ve just read Kevin say that Everton was a much better club when David Moyes left, than it is now, because of his professionalism, and think back to the many games we lost because he either wasn’t brave enough, or just didn’t possess enough savvy.

All about opinions but I think Everton was a much better team for having stability, but I think it’s a very long time since we had pure professionalism going right throughout our club?

Brian
Coleman's role in keeping us up can be viewed via that one goal, or his contribution season wide. Either way, he was signed by Moyes for sixty grand and is still providing top value.

Made up for Moyes and West Ham. Wish we would win a trophy again soon, any trophy and then build from there.

we didn't lose that many games when Moyes was here Tony, hence the comparatively high finishes. He's not top line, of course he isn't. but he offered terrific value to Everton. What other fellow would have come in here, not be given a transfer budget would have left Everton in as fine a fettle? I can't think of many who would have stayed that long, or recruited so well. After the last six years I can say without any shadow of doubt, we were lucky to have him, high wages and all.

now you could argue yes we both stuck it out too long. We needed a change, just in style, a different voice. Fair enough, yes we did have a number of moments he 'failed to seize'. But in broad terms, how he steered the ship, health of the club etc, he was an outstanding employee. !5 hour days, spent our money like his own, disciplined, decent chap. There's a lot to like.

2007-2012 the team was superb. However we did get pasted many times, at home also to the likes of WBA, Bolton and Blackburn. Yes he did a good job etc, but he was one of the highest paid managers at the time also.

But if the semi v Liverpool was a huge let down the 0-3 at home to Wigan in the cup QF certainly was. The lack of results against Liverpool over a 11 stretch was also painful, as was losing to Shrewsbury in the FA Cup.

Brian #171. I agree with you. A season is rarely made or lost on one single instant BUT if either of Coleman’s goal against Leeds doesn’t go in, or Maddison scores from the penalty, we are definitely down. Some goals are more pivotal than others!

To think Iwobi was credited with an “assist” for Coleman’s wonder goal! 😂😂😂

This talk about Seamus Coleman’s goal keeping us up, if something very similar to what was spinning around in my head that night after we beat Bournemouth. I was just laying there, thinking “What if what if”? There are quite a few “What if’s”…………What if Simms hadn't scored that last minute equaliser at Chelsea. What if Michael Keane hadn't scored the last minute equaliser against Spurs. What if Maddison had scored that penalty, or what if Pickford had dived. What if Mina hadn’t scored that last second equaliser against wolves, although, as it turned out, that wasn’t as important as we all thought at the time, although the pressure would have really cranked up a few notches against Bournemouth. Also, what if we hadn’t beaten Brighton, when probably 99.9% of the country thought we’d get beat.

What if Neal Maupay hadn’t scored a screamer against West Ham at home. And Kevin # 160 is right, what if Seamus Coleman hadn’t scored that ridiculous goal against Leeds. I’m sure there are plenty more “What if’s” relating to the season just gone, but it only needed one or two of them to not have gone in our favour, and we were gone!

Tony - Kevin has crystalized pretty much the way I feel about the team and the club at this moment in time.

I mean, the club isn't badly run is it, is it? Because we are now a club who are not elite and deals we broker for sponserships are similar to those of teams around us (West Ham, Brentford, Palace) etc

If we were mid-table, with decent cup runs, would there be such an outcry about boardroom changes? I reckon not. There will always be background noise about BK and his crew, but decent stuff on the pitch and the rebellion would be minimal at best.

Thing with Moyes is if you accept the "rescue" and subsequent decade as an acceptable standard that's all there is to it no amount of debate will alter that opinion.

Personally speaking I didn't like what he got up to here, too much cowardice for me and his second season brush with the relegation zone would see him out these days.

The mutual back scratching with Kenwright and brainwashing of fans to accept non-challenge laid the seeds of our present demise. Yes, it needed a monumental whackjob to make it blossom but Moshiri emptied so much horse shit into the place that blossom it did.

Moyes operated mostly during the period when only 4 clubs were at an unattainable level and the lower end of the table was so dreadful we were virtually guaranteed no relegation scraps - not like that now.

Yes, but we can and should be Finn.

Barry sums it up for me.

We have a lost generation that has had it's expectation beaten out of it. Not that you would believe it on the road with the blue army.

Did Chelsea ever believe? Did City? The former up and down between leagues. The latter scraped itself from the 3rd tier of English football with minutes to spare.

Anything is possible and we are big enough with the right leadership and sensible investment. Not Las Vegas style throwing dollar bills around and waking up in the morning with a hangover trying to remember what you've done with them.

Rob #178. I had the same thoughts after the Bournemouth match but it’s an inescapable fact that the Coleman wonder goal and the Maddison penalty miss were against the teams who eventually went down (and might otherwise not have done). I still break out in a cold sweat thinking about it!

Exactly Ray. Take two points off us, and give Leeds one, and take one point off us and give Leicester two, and we would have finished second bottom ( I think) 😨😨😨

There really are some short memories on here.

Shall we take it from our high point in 1987 when we won the league and Howard went to Spain.
4th - 8th - 6th - 9th - 12th - 13th - 17th and thank you Diamond - 15th (rescued by Big Joe) - 6th the one bright spot - 15th - 17th and saved by Goal Difference - 14th - 13th - 16th - 15th when Moyes came in with 9 games to go and us sliding down the table (9th at Christmas).

So to believe that we were one of the great English clubs constantly just missing out on Europe before Moyes arrived and was prepared to accept mediocrity is one of the biggest jokes around. 9 of the previous 10 seasons had seen us never in the top half.

And of course the memory is that having got to 7th, we finished 17th next season - by losing the last 5 games. We had enough points with 10 games to go that would have seen us safe.

So anyone saying he came in and lack ambition and ruined this club and prepared to accept mediocrity needs to take off the blue tinted glasses and realise what a lousy team we were. 8 of the 9 seasons after the 17th one we were in the top half.

And was it his fault we could not sign a Jaap Stam, a Ruud van Nistelrooy, a Didier Drogba, a Thierry Henry, a Niklas Anelka, an Andy Cole and all the other high profile players of those days? No, we were skint because of the ineptitude of the board before hand and the sugar daddy of Sir John no longer being around. Have you all forgot, Walter Smith came and signed Materazzi, Dacourt, Collins and sold them a year later has they had been bought on tick. All very well being gung-ho and going for wins at the big 4 - because I know we would all have been happy to be hammered 5-1 each time because at least we had a go.

Don't go back to Catterick and Kendall days - but remember where we were when he arrived.

Going back to the 'what if' games, was there many where we were unlucky to lose, cant think of many at all.

Don’t know about that Kevin, but did you know we threw away eighteen points from winning positions, not counting Leicester away.

I don't think anyone is saying that Phil @185.

What some are saying is that as Everton manager, he choked when it mattered.

He couldn't take Everton that step further. He failed at United. Embarrassed himself in Spain got Sunderland relegated. Notwithstanding West Ham releasing him once and recent talk of him going to Celtic. That may change now.

There's no bitterness. I'm pleased for him.

As a relative, I will be messaging him to congratulate him and I'm pleased for West Ham.

Frightening that Rob, must be one of the worst in the division.

Correction to my post @ 169. We threw away fifteen points from winning positions. Still pretty poor though.

West Ham's open top bus parade gladdens the heart. Or at least it does for me. A team outside the entitled Sky Six fuckers, showing off their trophy on a glorious summer's evening to hordes of delirious fans in the east end of London. Magnificent.

It can be done.

Michael, who are the Sky Six these days?

Indeed Michael #173

Lets hope Dyche can emulate Davey Moyes at West Ham!

I'm happy for Moyes, he did play his full team against Leeds, and even though the way he joined Utd, left a bad taste in my mouth. I believe he did a great job with us, with pennies to spend. If he had the money to buy a top striker we'd have been a top team. As for West Ham not a fan of the owners or the hooligan element, and got a free stadium.

Hi Danny [170] I don't claim to be an expert on football management, but I believe that success or failure is not down to any individual. It's also my belief that once a player steps over the white line the manager loses control of him.
For instance a player like Seamus Coleman may be told to never venture over the half way line, but if he sees an opportunity his natural instinct would take over. If his action leads to the opposition scoring, many would blame both the the players ability or 'lack of', and the managers tactics.
I have often been mocked on this site for saying that footballers are not machines that can be programmed, and unlike some fans I don't pay much attention to tactics or formations, what I witness is 11 players of one side versus 11 players of the opposition.
It's for that reason that I don't criticice any individual for shortcomings, I have always been of the opinion that "We win as a team and lose as a team" and I either enjoy or endure what is played out before me.
I recognise that we all have our opinions and that we express them believing that we are correct, otherwise we wouldn't post them.

What you say makes sense John Senior.

To a degree.

Players follow instructions, but you are right. Once they cross the white line, instinct, personal decisions, mistakes and moments of brilliance kick in that are rarely anything to do with the screams from the dugout.

Really great scenes watching West Ham's trophy homecoming, albeit a strange selection of music.

Wait until ours.

Paint and smoke the town blue.

Peter (145), It’s great to see very young lads starting off with their teams and after two years you can see a big improvement in the way they play, I am sure if all the lads stay together with the team they will continue to improve and with the discipline they are instructed to play with, as you have described in the past, they will become noticed as will the club and be respected as a well run club where enjoying the game is just as important as winning matches, give Sam and Charlie a pat on the back from me.

Paul,

David Moyes would never have lasted 11 years under any previous Everton regime. Along with his chairman, he embedded mediocrity into our identity.

Given his own wages and our club wages overall, far from punching above our weight, we were underachieving – if he had been ambitious he should have been challenging the board at every opportunity – instead, it looked like a cosy love in.

You have your view, but many others such as I will disagree. One thing or sure – we all want better for our club.

The club isn't really that badly run and the only thing wrong is a couple of decent cup runs and a few mid-table finishes? Maybe for you, Finn, but definitely not for me mate. I actually found this post really sad.

Moyes was without doubt a magnificent employee for Bill Kenwright, Kevin, but in any other era Everton have never really been so skint,(except in the dark days before Kendall came good, when the fans had a whip round to sign Terry Curran) so averaging 7th suddenly became a massive achievement, and the narrative of Everton, began to desperately change for the worse.

It's an old argument, and as Barry R says, nobody is really going to change their mind, depending on their views at such a divisive time in Everton's history. The thing that I find hard to understand about the Moyes era, is that he averaged seventh with the eighth highest wage bill allegedly, so I honestly don't see any real overachievement, except for the year he got us to 4th.

Moyes got plenty of wins, but plucky little Everton became flat track bullies, who often surrendered easily against the bigger clubs, especially away from Goodison Park. I still shudder at hearing his captain Phillip Neville saying they spoke about it at half-time, when they were beating Liverpool at Wembley, and they just knew Liverpool where going to throw the kitchen sink at them in the second half.

Tony yes I get the frustration. I think he did stay here too long, for him and us.

Tony #182

"The thing that I find hard to understand about the Moyes era, is that he averaged seventh with the eighth highest wage bill allegedly, "

Firstly the increase in wages as you move up the Premier League ladder wasn't (still isn't) incremental. I remember seeing figures at the time with Everton on the 8th highest wage bill spending around £80 million whereas the team just above were spending some £120 million with the gap widening considerably further up.

Add to that in terms of transfer funds, during his time with us, Moyes didn't have a pot to piss in.

The Moyes done good... not exceptional... but very good.

A celebration on a route that studiously avoided their home ground to go back to their old ground. That tells you a lot about what football has become.

I was once married into a West Ham family and there was no other club that was so embedded in the streets, lanes, alleys, and communities for a mile or so around its own ground. Not even us.

West Ham was geography and it was nice to see that articulated and felt this evening.

Tony 182 - that was the trade off that Moyes alluded to. He couldn’t compete in the transfer market so he made sure that, once signed, players had every reason to stay.

You only have to look at the length of service by a lot of players under Moyes to justify this.

Behind Catterick and Kendall - who honestly have Everton ever had as a manager who was better than Moyes?

Kevin 186

Arguably Royle was better. First season FA Cup win, second season 6th, 3rd season quit/fired in 15th.

When Moyes took over I think we finished 15th that partial season, then 7th then 17th. If he'd been sacked at that point his record would be similar to Koeman and Silva. But he wasn't rightly or wrongly.

Even after his 17th Moyes went 4th then 11th. So it was 5 years in when he settled into the 5th-ish norm. Martinez got 5th then what 11th then sacked nearer 15th. Lee a cup final, 4th, 19th then sacked. Allardyce 8th then sacked. Carey 5th then sacked.

None of these guys had the time in role Moyes did and who knows they may have got worse and worse or better. But on his first 2/3 years his record is comparable with the aforementioned.

And to be clear I'm not knocking Moyes overall I thought he did well in his circumstances but it's difficult comparing eras, managers etc with different circumstances. I was born after Catterick's time so all I know is that Howard Kendall Mk 1 was far and away the best in my lifetime.

Moyes who was allowed to stay at Everton for over 11 seasons, even though he never won an away game against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United in 44 attempts, and only got to three semifinals during this period, (losing a first leg against a team with ten men, losing another semi-final because he couldn't get his team to embrace that Liverpool were there for the taking - just like that game at Stamford Bridge - and won his other on penalties against Man Utd reserves) is our third best manager?

I think when Moyes departed, he left us a decent team, and I also think his team was very unfortunate with injuries when getting to his only cup final. But when I hear some people looking back at the Moyes era with genuine affection, it makes me understand why I hate Bill Kenwright, for what he has been allowed to do to my football club.

Well done, Moyes, you deserve it. A lifetime's work.

Fair play to him. Had Mojo, lost Mojo, then got it back.

West Ham are lucky to have him... until The Owners get an attack of Moshiri Hollywood Manager-itis.

Spot on, Tony 188. St. David has been anointed by his widowers who yearn for his return.

You at least got that right Colin - he is a saint. (1 Corinthians Chapter 1 verse 2).

Applies to all believers. Ask David's dad.

It's going to be really difficult to see transfer business going on at £40M for no more than useful players and £90M for good players like Rice while we'll be grubbing around in the weeds. A real challenge for us.

Phil (192),

I don't know about David's dad, but I doubt David qualifies as a Saint, on his own admission he only went to church now and again, I think he's got to be a bit more pious than that.

However, he did go to his bank very regularly to pick up his very high wages which were always higher than any player in the club until Arteta was paid more to keep him here.

Moyes looked after himself being one of the highest paid managers in Europe and did very well out of Everton becoming a millionaire with average ability as a manager.

But not as good as his Chairman who became a very rich man during his time at Everton, unfortunately still hanging around, and nearly made the club bankrupt at one time.

What a pair, 11 years together and won nothing.

It's a sad indictment of the club when, since WW2 (not sure how managers worked before then, it was a bit different) we've only had 3 managers who have won any silverware.

In that respect, Moyes is definitely a contender for the 3rd best manager we've ever had. He got more time than others who could have been better, but in terms of league positions he's up there.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted to see Moyes leave when he did as I believe he had taken us as far as he could, and some of his comments after were disrespectful. I would also never like him to return to the club. But while he was here he was a very good manager, especially considering the funds he had available vs the money that's been squandered since.

IMHO Moyes came to Everton full of burning desire and ambition which was very quickly doused by the leadership of Bill Kenwright.

Kenwright just, again IMHO, wanted to stay in the top tier. Moyes very quickly changed the narrative to one of "plucky little Everton".

He decided he couldn't compete with the so-called big teams so played the odds and concentrated on survival. He did bring in some good players and did an "okay" job but ruined that by the way he engineered his departure on the order of SAF and cost the club millions in compensation for his "transfer" to Man Utd.

Talk of having him back smacks to me of just wanting to be safe each season and accepting we can't compete. All IMHO so I won't argue with anyone.

I'd more agree with Dave and our Tony.

Oh, and if you want to see what can be done by a "small" well-run club without spunking half a billion, look at Brighton!

He left us with a decent team, Tony. But not a winning mentality. And that expectation has come from the top. Moyes conformed. I don't really care what he's done with West Ham. I judge him as Everton manager.

Despite all the decent stuff he done, I still remember the Wigan FA Cup surrender, the semi-final surrender and, despite the optimism of getting as close as we have for years to a trophy, the realisation that we were way off Chelsea.

I don't have bitterness. He done what he had to do, but just couldn't inspire and take us further. Underpinned by the same principle of our owners and board of the time.

But he was compliant.