Gray expected to stay despite broken relationship with Dyche

Instead of the wild goose chase for Gnonto, we should have just kept Gray and focussed on getting a quality midfielder and an experienced CB to rotate when necessary and cover Branthwaite.

Not got a shirt number at the moment and lost the 11 shirt to Harrison - unless that decision has now been reversed.

I was informed we wanted to get rid of him because he was coming to the end of his contract and we wanted to cash in. For me, he is just as good a bet as Gnonto and is a lot cheaper.

I also agree that a quality midfield player would have made all of the difference and that is where we should've been looking to recruit on the last days of the transfer window.

I just hope Gray won't just go through the motions now because of the way he has been treated. We need skillful players and, let's be honest, we certainly do not have a glut of players who are comfortable on the ball.

People bang on about £30 million Iwobi who wanted £100k a week but Gray cost a pittance, earns less, and has been about as productive over the last 2 years.

Gray is miles better than the Fulham player. End of.

I was under the impression the whole league was under one ownership… granted I pay about as much attention to it as LIV Golf.

Never disliked him. He's one who will give his all and is not afraid to make a mistake or take the ball when times are tough. His end product has always been his issue.

As is his decision-making, when he gets in so many good positions with good options but fails to capitalise, a lot like Iwobi.

£10M for Gray or £22M for Iwobi. I'd rather keep Gray. Get him back involved if the Saudis aren't going to pay £150M… He, he!

I may be getting confused with something else but I thought in Sunday school that a descendant from the tribe of Andy Gray would lead Everton out of the oppression of Anfield into the holy land of BMD and that he would be our Messiah.

Now it's possible I'm confusing it with something else but I'm pretty sure that's what I was told…

Or maybe Dyche was telling the truth when he said Gray is injured? More likely Dyche froze him out though if he wasn't given a squad number. Hope he's still got his locker, or maybe he can find Niasse's in the store room and dust it off.

I can't get my head around this "Sean Dyche fit" shit.

If he's trained anywhere this summer then he surely is fit!?

I can't understand why, in early September, he needs to be 'reintegrated' into the squad??? Yes, he probably spent pretty much the whole of July with the Jamaica squad at the Gold Cup, then probably on his jollies after their semi-final defeat on 13 July, but no other internationals needed reintegration.

Presumably he then doesn't return to Finch Farm, which seems just ridiculous for one of the few player 'assets' of value we actually have. Surely maintaining his fitness (or regaining it after his personal summer break) should be a prime concern of the Everton training staff right up until the point where he actually leaves the club?

But the completely unnecessary transfer of his shirt number to Jack Harrison (there are loads of available squad numbers) probably signifies the half-arsed laissez-faire utter lack of professionalism that bedevils this benighted apology for a Premier League club.

Hope we keep Gray, losing him on a free next Summer having bought him for £1.5M 3 years ago is worth it if he scores/assists 10 times this season.

Wouldn't blame him if he had a half-arsed attitude now. But he'll probably prove he's more professional than this chronically badly run club.

Communication from the club is abysmal.

Dyche should get Gray back in the squad as soon as possible.

Not enough players to fill a bench is bullshit on his behalf with two reserve keepers on show.

Can't believe he is not fit enough for 20-30 minutes having recently played for Jamaica.

Obviously something gone on between them both but, in the best interests of the paper-thin squad, we currently have they should sort it ASAP. Garner is no winger by any stretch of the imagination and fits best at central-midfield or right-back in an emergency.

Harrison seemingly quite a way off full fitness until after the break so no other candidate for that right-sided slot. Patterson hung out to dry without the help of a wide man willing to track back.

Yes, he bombs on and leaves himself exposed quite a lot but in the absence of a proper winger to supply crosses his inexperience sometimes gets the better of him. Another loss yesterday without his cross for definite!

I for one was calling for Dyche to come in and save us, which he did, but he does tend to ramble on continually about what we need to do rather than getting the players to actually do what he speaks about.

Very economical with the truth and rarely discusses the true state of affairs concerning players. Dobbin, Keane and Gray all missing yesterday. Tell us the truth and be honest with the fans as nobody else communicates with the fan base.

Another Bungalow Bill mouthpiece, one fears.

You might be onto something... the shirt number 11 for Jack Harrison seems to have come from a social media post by The Bobble, and parrotted by the Echo, but may not have been officially confirmed.

It seems that the Number 11 has therefore been fully reinstated for Gray as this is what he now has showing on the official website.

As for Harrison's number? Well, seems he is the new Niasse with a pretty unique Squad Number of 0 (Zero)!

I can't see the bit where Dyche has said he will actually be playing for us in the near future, rather than simply stating he's currently not going anywhere else.

He's got to get fit ‘as a starting point' so presumably he needs to prove something else to Dyche to get a game.

Everton fans have always been great to me but it's so difficult to play for someone who don't show you respect as a person.

Link

Well…that's interesting.

There are clearly issues between Dyche and Gray, but I expect Dyche to keep that in-house.

Personally, I'd say make it £20M or he stays. Might be awful on the player but it's about time we started playing hardball.

I don't think we will see Gray back in an Everton shirt, because it's difficult to see any way Dyche will select him, so I would imagine that he will move in January.

No doubt when asked at future press conferences about Gray, Dyche will say he is training with the team and when chances come he will be ready.

For a team desperately lacking in goals to treat your 2nd highest goal scorer from last season this way makes no sense.

I can't stand players who “go on strike“ or sulk on social media. There are other ways to deal with this. Why don't any of these incredibly sad and mistreated souls just resign, rip up their contracts and walk away without any compensation?

That was why I didn't want Gnonto anywhere near Everton after he threw a paddy and missed Leeds's first 3 league games, if someone came in for him while with us, who's to say he won't do it again?

The squad is threadbare as it is.

Gray should be staying regardless of the Saudis.

Terribly run club.

We all know Gray has ability and can score the odd wonder goal, but he flatters to deceive most of the time. So, unless we are down to the bare bones, Dyche isn't going to give Gray a game unless there is a change in attitude from Gray of course.

Gray giving his opinion on Dyche publicly isn't going to help him. Rumours he doesn't fancy the Saudi Pro League, and wants to stay in England.

It'll be Branthwaite next year, and Pickford the year after that. Moshiri has realised he's lost hundreds of millions that he's never getting back and is slowly selling off what he can whilst trying frantically to sell the club to a muppet as stupid as he is.

It'll be a long wait. The nonsense with the Instagram post is just a distraction, probably Bill's idea!

BBC just reported, Gray having a go at Dyche...

Whatever is the truth of it, it's a mess we don't need to have.

I think it's hard to say it must be his attitude when that happened automatically when Dyche came in.

He eventually played him a couple of times out of desperation.

He obviously just needs to go now. But I still struggle to see how he has no role at all at this club while we continue to pay his wages.

He's far too good to not even make the bench – and whatever you might think of Gray, that's not particularly good management at a club with minimal playing assets.

Demarai Gray appears to criticise Everton boss Sean Dyche in social media post

This is a long way from what we need.

Gray could and should be key for us this year if he's firing on all cylinders.

Maybe the outdated and dinosaur comments are on the money; if so, it won't be long before he's gone.

Gray has a lot of talent and can score goals. We don't have lots of talent to waste.

I wonder if Dyche was told to freeze him out as one of the few saleable assets. Or perhaps they had a run in last season when he was benched and Dyche didn't like his attitude. Either way, it is a bit immature to put the boot in when you go.

Gray will sign a 3- o 4-year contract with Al-Ettifaq on a reputed salary of around $6 million (£4.8M) a year, which is also the same amount Everton will receive for the transfer.

I don't care who doesn't get on with who but everyone on the playing staff should be given a chance to prove themselves good enough to play in the first team. When the team plays, all playing and non-playing staff should have the same targets and ambitions.

Perform for the team the club and most of all the supporters. A hit-and-miss Gray is better on the pitch than an out-of-position player.

A shame because he is a talented player who has scored some fantastic and important goals for us. But, the overall teamwork and right attitude is absolutely paramount and it sounds like Gray is unable or unwilling to bury the hatchet and get on with it.

We have little choice if the difference in opinion is true other than get what we can for him whilst we can.

So, thanks for some good moments, Demarai, and good luck in Saudi Arabia. A word of advice though, do not criticise your future coach on social media.

Anything good is almost always met with tumbleweed.

I still say keep him and offer him a new deal, he can go to Saudi in a couple of years. Are we the only club in Europe the Saudis play hardball with?!

Personally, I can't see it happening at least not right now, but I wondered if those fans travelling around the country are getting similar vibes from their fellow supporters?

Whatever's happened between him and Dyche, Gray has gone out of his way to burn his bridges, so let's get him shipped out and move on.

And what move do they have? They will simply have to wait out results. And then have a cuppa.

Well enough fans sang his name last season and he gives us an option, so it begs the question: Why doesn't Dyche rate him?

Danjuma showed his claim on that position. You don't have to get weird about why he isn't selected. Scoreboard man.

Now I have no inside info but, if Gray is say somewhat reticent to work hard to be "fit", that wouldn't do for Dyche whose mantra (a perfect one IMO) is "minimum requirement is maximum effort."

If Gray's not giving maximum effort in training, then that's why he's been frozen out. Could be as simple as that.

So it makes sense to sell, which seems to be what we're trying to do with just a year left on his contract.

I hope that he stays for the rest of the season but, if not, we can cash in, in the January window, and recruit a replacement or two.

Seems people forget that players are human.

Good winger though.

Why would we want to ship him out?

The squad is woefully short on numbers as it is.

The money we got for him would disappear into a hole like the Gordon money.

Anyway he's a much better option out wide than Garner who's done absolutely nothing there in the 4 games this season.

This almost seems like Benitez's treatment of James… stubborness bordering on arrogance.

I hope Dyche goes before Gray because I can't see where the 10 wins and 7 draws are coming from under his tutelage.

Ferguson was the daddy, if a player didn't shape himself or crossed Ferguson, he was history.

As for Dyche being a dinosaur manager, give us a break! He has plenty of experience behind him plus his back-up team to advise. He'll know every way there is to play football, it's hardly rocket science, is it?

It does help if you have a few stars in your team who can get you results, top players make managers look good.

I like the look of Danjuma and Beto, they will increase our scoring rate no end.

I'm not sure if anyone knows what's happened here, but there's plenty on here who didn't/don't want Dyche as manager and, like with Koeman and Niasse, they've found a convenient stick to beat him with.

Another inconsistent, good-on-his-day player with not long left on his contract, spouting off on social media.

If he doesn't want to play for us, let him go for as much money as possible as soon as possible.

When he was told on deadline day that he would have to stay, he has probably discussed options with his agent to force a move. Seems to have worked.

He really didn't get the support of a structured offence like Iwobi but both had their chances in the box. Had they converted just a couple, we would not be talking in these terms.

Garner is definitely not working as a winger, so we should keep Gray now. He's definitely good enough to make our small squad, but if Harrison was given Gray's number, it's very unprofessional from Dyche.

That isn't his market value surely..

Hopefully we can get some decent money for him. Harrison and Danjuma are better anyway.

He should have had Gray training with the rest of the squad in the event of the transfer not going through. Surely it is not too difficult to engage both possible outcomes and pay Gray the respect to advise him that, until the transfer is settled, he will only be considered from the bench each game.

If he thinks that he can determine the transfer's outcome by his treatment of the player, then perhaps he should apply to join Mr Koeman's staff.

I don't think Dyche and Thelwell want Gray in the kit room. Gray's expressions on social media give a clue to what cannot be observed. You simply have no measure of Dyche's effort, just a slanderous supposition

Thanks, you've confirmed what I believed to be true, it seems then it's more a case of mostly social media users, showing their lack of belief in the manager.

Then tell me why do you think Gray doesn't seem to have been in Dyche's plans and it is okay for him to comment on the player in a Press interview but not for the player to do similar which seems to be in response?

And it wouldn't be slander but libel but probably neither as it is an opinion and no more supposition than yours.

As for the second question, I haven't checked directly but what did Dyche say about Gray? And are you sure his wasn't a response to a journo which puts him on the spot? I think Gray had absolute free will on his communications. Those are not really comparable in the way you have framed it.

Gibson made only 1 League start for Burnley and that was against us on Boxing Day 2018... naturally he scored but we won 5-1!

Gibson is on record as saying they he had basically no relationship with the manager whatsoever and eventually couldn't wait to leave the club.

It's also well known amongst Burnley fans that Dyche has his favourites and was, eventually, too loyal to them. They also say he did well with limited funds but did waste money when he finally had a decent amount to spend.

Anyway, Gray has been a fantastic signing for us considering the fee we paid for him and he would have been far more effective than Garner on the right-wing this season. I don't see how he can be injured when he's played for Jamaica?

Good luck to him in the future.

You'll find Mr Dyche's comments in Lyndon's piece at the top, but please tell us why you think Dyche and Thelwell don't want him in the kit room?

It can't be easy dealing with a squad of rich young men.

Again, Dyche was asked a direct question after a game. He is required to provide a credible response. Gray's situation is more like going to the press when you can't get what you want. That is a massive difference in motivation to communicate.

I think Gray initially said that he'd prefer to stay in England for the sake of his young family. As for Dyche's response, he could just have left it at "not considering the player due to the transfer talk in the Press" but that may have led to further questions as to why he isn't fit and what the injury is to which he alludes.

Then there is the very small matter of a shirt number, as you say, reading between the lines.

Has his number really been 'taken away'? Or has someone thought he was leaving us and put two and two together and 'given' it to Harrison?

Or is this an imaginary stick to beat Dyche with?

Or is it possible, as has been mentioned somewhere on this site, that the shirt numbers have been changed from those first published to that which now appears as you have reported.

Gray left Leicester City for free when they declined to offer him another contract. He accepted an 18-month contract with Beyer Leverkusen and after 6 months they let him go for £1.7 million. Now we cannot get rid of him.

He is hardly a player in demand…

Very selfish and petulant behaviour from Gray.

The official site currently has Gray 11 and Harrison 0. The only reference I've seen about Gray 'losing' his number is a tweet from El Bobble.

I can only guess that tweet was on the basis that Gray was leaving, as per all the summer rumours. There appears to be no evidence that Dyche has 'taken' his number off him.

But Gray certainly seems to have a higher opinion of his abilities than Dyche does.

Personally, I'm with Dyche. Much as I enjoy watching Gray's skills, the fact is that he's a one-way attacking player (no real defensive work) who scores a goal every 450 minutes on the pitch, and has a goal involvement every 300.

That sucks. That's horrible, historically bad, way worse than Beattie or Big Vic or Tosun. It's one-third the scoring rate of Niasse for shit's sake (162 minutes).

Gray may be a fine fellow and a fine talent, but he needs to pull his head out of his ass (and off social media) and raise his performance level for this club.

Dont quite know why you are comparing Gray's goal returns to out-and-out strikers, would you like to do a comparison with Iwobi who plays in the same role.

I know Iwobi played most games last year and scored 2 goals, so heaven knows that works out in minutes played per goals scored, and Gray, who didn't play every game last season, scored 5 league goals.

Also it's Everton who have rejected the Saudi offer for Gray, which is reported to be 5 times what we paid for him, and if Dyche doesn't want him then why block his transfer?

Dyche sets the standards, if they don't reach them, they don't play. He comes across as a no-nonsense straight-talking chap to me.

I have just one answer to that comment – Michael Keane

As I keep banging on, at least we know what Gray provides. I think he can do a good job for us and would be a great tactical player to have in the squad.

Even if he walks at the end of his contract, he hardly cost us a fortune and is far cheaper than Gnonto would have been. Keeping him is a win-win situation; now we just have to make sure we can convince him to show us what he can do. He knows the fans are pretty much on his side here.

Gray did not want to move, having a young family. But found himself isolated from the squad. No English move happened, and then Saudi, which was even worse for Gray.

Dyche somehow has placed himself as the main fall guy for Gray's anger for being sold. Not very bright on Dyche's part, but he is working for a club that would sell their granny if there was value in it.

To those who criticise Demarai for not tracking back, watch some of the games where he helps Seamus out and runs back to our area, something I haven't seen Garner do yet, or for that matter, Doucouré.

Remember, for most of his (few) games last season, Gray was playing the lone striker role, and I guarantee no-one will be roasting Beto over his defensive game this season… perspective please, fellow Blues

Let the little weapon go. He's really not that good. I for one won't miss him

How many 50 / 50s have you seen Gray pull out of!

You don't have to get on with Dyche. The club, the team, and fans need you to help us. Going public doesn't help anyone.

Gray, even if words passed between them or not, must have put 2+2 together and seen the writing on the wall. He had rave reviews playing for Jamaica but obviously didn't fit with Dyche's plans. He probably came back from international duty and rightly sought answers from Dyche as to what was going on and didn't get the reply he wanted to hear.

We can speculate but the only itch we can scratch is that Gray has been offloaded for peanuts twice before, which in these days of ridiculous fees makes no sense whatsoever except the clubs involved saw him surplus and wanted him gone.

For Gray to post on social media after hearing that he will be reintegrated into the squad, can only point to a breakdown of trust between the two.

Managers have to manage players' expectations as well as team performance, clearly this hasn't gone down well.

Dyche is paid Rock star wages. He needs to be the adult here and use his resource. Our resources are finite and Dyche cannot afford to be stubborn here. Grow a pair Sean and get on with your job

That could make it difficult for Dyche to be the adult, Mark, as he might have to lower his targets, which should in any case be tailored to the individual rather than the good old PE teacher approach that everyone has to do what's on the chart for the day.

He was then shunted off to Germany.

Maybe he is the problem?

It's not just Demarai that has been handled rather poorly. We had the opportunity to have Coady for £4M which we blew. In fact, Coady was unceremoniously dropped and only turned to again in desperation when Keane became untenable.

Equally Mina (a far superior defender) is no longer with us, but plying his trade at much-reduced wages elsewhere. He was popular here, it loooks like he was also encouraged to head off.

Good players forced out cos they don't fit the manager's profile. That's always been the case to a certain extent. but beggars can't be choosers, and some of his choices are starting to hurt us.

We will probably lose £10M on Gray now cos of this stand-off, and have to keep on playing Garner. Not great.

He can't just walk away – the club wouldn't let him if they think he can make them some money in a transfer.

I think it slightly strange to criticise Dyche for not re-signing Mina, as class as he is he was hardly ever available.

I'd have preferred to have kept Coady but given we had preagreed payment terms on the 4.5m presumably it wouldn't have suited us having got no money in the bank.

But I think we will have enough cover for him and we need the cash, whatever we raise is straight into profit, pretty much. I hope it's not too late for a move, though I can well see why Saudi wouldn't appeal much to him, unless they paid very big wages, and even then

Coady was not picked up by another premiership club.

Gray has been bought by Leicester, Leverkusen and Everton and 3.7M was the most that anyone paid for him.

Mick #110, you're right, Gray actually puts in the effort to track back... he's just not very good at winning the ball or covering runners when he gets there. So he's not really a defensive contributor. Sort of like Gana at the attacking end -- always in the right place and trying hard, but...

Ed #124, agreed... Mina clearly loved it here but he was certainly not gonna take a pay cut, and I think Thelwell and management looked at his pay-per-games-played and said farewell, friend. And as much as I loved the guy when he played, I'm delighted to see Branthwaite getting his chance.

Sean #126, you must be an insider expert on "sorry lives" if can expend part of it putting up a post like that, but thanks for stopping by.

I'm willing to give it another go if you can work up an alternative version. Sincerely.

Gray and Iwobi both are not very good at defending but not enough effort is definitely not. I will still give Gray a chance as Danjuma is also hot and cold type of player. So Gray can replace him if he's got an off day.

Seems he is a sensitive soul. At this point though we are stuck with him and him with us so it does neither party any good if there's tension and a breakdown in relationship. Dyche needs that bite his tongue give him a hug and get him playing again. He's no superstar but beggars can't be choosers. As a manager sometimes you have to swallow your pride and Polish a turd for the good of the company. Further down the line you can settle scores when times are better.

I for one am optimistic again. Beto and Danjuma are going to produce goals. Integrate Gray back into the team. No idea what the issue is there but fix it. Creative player is what we need because I don't see many clean sheets in the near future.

I'd say that if Gray wants to play more, he's the one who needs to get to work on repairing the relationship.

And we're naming 5 outfield players on the bench and dealing with social media discontent.

It's not a glowing endorsement of the manager.

Dyche might be able to stomach Gray, but, can Gray find whatever it takes for a professional athlete to put in a effort for a manager that he has no respect for???

He shouldn't be here!

Major transfer window fail!

So where are we now?

We've just drawn against Sheffield Utd in a game that could have done with a late attacking change for someone with a bit of pace. But of course we had no-one on the bench who could possibly do that.

We've failed to register a goal in our other 3 league games.

We can't fill the bench.

I don't see how Dyche can be defended on this. It's an absolute mess.

This is a weak squad, so the manager should be pragmatic despite Gray's petulant instagram post.

Yes, he's got talent and I honestly don't mind watching Gray now and then, there are worse players in our team, but is everyone actually aware he only scored 2 goals from open play last season?

Nottingham Forest at home and the cracker at Man City were his only 2 goals that weren't penalties.

So, for all the talent, this is exactly why he's never nailed down a club so far in his career.

And another prime example of Everton fans these days being too happy with mediocrity.

We've heard cries over Iwobi departing and now over a big money offer for Gray going up in smoke but these two combined got less than 7 goals in the Premier League between them last term and both played in most games that almost resulted in relegation.

I don't think many other clubs' fans that were actually ambitious would be losing their shit over such a situation.

It's better to have Demarai Gray on the bench then 2 keepers.

I think that sums it up quite nicely. I dare anyone to say "no Steve, you're wrong" and back this up with a credible reason.

It's not like we haven't seen players do this in the past. Whatever happens, he strikes me as a player who just needs to concentrate on his football, because he could be decent.

Personally I'd be happy if he stayed. Let's see what happens as the Saudi window is still open as I understand.

Dominic Calvert-Lewin (once fit), Danjuma, Beto, Chermiti, Harrison and Gray (if he stays), plus McNeil.

A lot more attacking options in comparison to pumping long balls to poor Maupay last season.

I say ‘poor' as I felt for him.

We can have 9 on the bench. We can only use 5 subs.

Keeper gives away a pen and sent off = sub a player with a keeper.

Keeper no 2 gets concussed = either a outfield player goes in goal and we bring on one of the 4 of 8 subs on the bench … or we put the second keeper in goal and we still have 7 subs when we can only bring on 3 anyway.

It is quite sensible to have 2 keepers.

What is not sensible is to not have 9 subs. We have a squad of 28 players and 21 in the U21s squad. Put one of them on the bench. Maybe no intention of them playing but gives them the feel of being around the 1st XI and if we are winning 3-0 (or even losing 3-0) as the board goes up, then put them on for the experience of taking part.

A select few know what goes on at the club, so laying into manager or the player is conjecture. I have never once seen Iwobi and Gray put their body on the line in any game. For me, that should be a given and it is a vital aspect of footy.

If ya can't hack it and don't have the profile and attributes a manager wants, then there's probably only going to be one outcome.

On another topic, Onana needs a firecracker up his arse. For such a big unit and a player who seems to believe he is something, he needs some intensity to his game.

Watching the MotD highlights from Saturday, you can see him just jogging back with no desire or urgency to close down players in dangerous situations. This happened in a few of their chances and for one of the goals we conceded.

Guilty of the same in numerous other games. Gueye gets so much stick on here, but the big man needs some of the wee man's attitude.

Gray can look good on a fast counter attack and he has his signature cut in from the left onto his right foot and curl it into the top bin.

Other than that, never dribbles and rarely beats his man. His tracking back ain't great.

Iwobi goes for £20 plus and Gray is seen as bargain basement material. So that is how the football world view the lad.

By my quick reckoning he had 4 goals from open play and one penalty at that point. Granted 2 of those goals were in the league cup.

But the point stands... who else was scoring? If he'd carried on playing he would have finished our top scorer.

But he's not even worth filling an empty seat on the bench?

We're not better off for this.

I think Gray has proven a good-value signing for the money we got him for, that's why if someone is offering £15 million for him, we need to take that.

Last season, he scored 4 league goals, 2 penalties and 2 open play, and against Fleetwood and Bournemouth in the Carabao Cup.

He's an inconsistent talent who can have one great game and then go missing for about 10 others on the spin, particularly at Goodison where teams shut us down.

I like his style when – and it's a big 'when' – he's on form but, much like Iwobi, he's never going to be good enough to elevate this mess we are in.

None of our players, Beto (obvious reasons he's just arrived) and Pickford excepted, are really top-drawer material.

Mind you, he doesn't need to be top drawer. Any drawer would be better than nothing and we are quite literally preferring to leave empty seats at the moment.

I don't see how it can be defended. He'll obviously go. Just as Digne and James obviously had to go... but the team gets weaker with these kinds of decisions.

Surely there's a competent coach out there somewhere? We just seem to find oddballs who can't make a simple logic based decision for the better of the team that they are 'managing'.

Gray has been at the club for over two years now. I'll practically guarantee that's longer than Dyche will be here. And I'd be willing to bet that Dyche won't even see a calendar year out.

But we'll pay Gray's wages for a year while he's in the cold. Then we'll negotiate a sale price for him when it's clear he has to go. And we'll spin the story so people think we did well on the sale.

It's not the first time. It's incredibly amateurish stuff.

You've seen him do things. And you've seen us make no changes when the attack is exhausted and ineffective.

Surely these dots aren't that hard to draw between.

- The only PL clubs over the weekend to field less than 9 subs were Everton (7) and Sheff Utd) (8).
- The only PL club to pick 2 keepers was Everton.

We are either being practical and innovative as you suggest. Or alternatively, Dyche would have had to select 5 outfield players, 2 keepers and 2 cardboard cut outs last Saturday if he wanted 9 subs on the bench

I urge you to read up on Gray's history, particularly at Leicester. He isn't happy with being on the bench. He believes he should be playing regularly in the Premier league and only recently gave up on playing for England. I admire his self belief but clearly his opinion of how good he is outweighs his ability and it affects his mental health sadly as he cant cope with being told he isn't going to be a regular starter.

He was given an amazing l, regular starting position opportunity with us and showed flashes all too irregularly proving, to me anyway, that he isn't good enough to be a regular starter in the Premier league. Leverkusen just wanted their money back and we only have to look at most of the signings from the bundesliga to see that the standard there is lower than here. That should tell you what they thought of him.

A few on here are complaining that he should be kept to be on the bench, he clearly doesn't want that I am afraid, better to let him go and if the Saudis are willing to pay 12m then all the better for someone who doesn't want to help us from the bench.

If it happens at every club, at what point will he start to realise he is the problem?

McNeill, Godfrey, Cherimiti, Mykolenko, Onyango were on the bench and
Harrison, Alli, Gomes, Keane, Coleman, Dobbin all injured and Gray elsewhere.

But there are loads of kids in the U21s - and I just don't know them to know which would benefit. Can it be that difficult to say to Sean McAllister, hey you are on the bench Saturday and pay an extra room in the hotel. Same for Charlie Whitaker. Yes, if we needed a third midfielder then Mykolenko rather then either of them but they would be so much more enthused to push on.

The Everton website does not mention Gomes, Keane, or Dobbin as injured.

Why do ''professionals'' persist in airing their grievances on social media. All rather childish in my book.

Sure Gray was popular but inconsistent and that won't change but Dyche wants players to play his way and he is the gaffer after all.

If Gray still wants a move in January, then he has to buckle down and fight for a place instead of sulking.

Dyche has a way of doing things and if it doesn't work this season then he knows he will be out soon enough.

Sadly, the SM team is also not adhering to NSNO.

I'm surprised Gray is still here but then I remember reading what Dyche said on the morning of the final day of the transfer window and it suddenly makes sense. The only reason Gray has suddenly opened up must be because whatever bid has been made has been rejected but I'm certain he will be sold this week.

It's horrible getting home from your holidays because Everton suddenly become a lot more important once again and there is very little positivity around the club right now.

But, as we all know, Dyche likes his players to work back and put a tackle in. Even the forwards. This is not Demari's strong point. His efforts to work back have always been minimal and I have watched him 'chicken out' of 50/50 balls on many occasions.

So he doesn't appear to fit Dyche's 'suitable player' tag. I like him because he can produce moments of magic, but does need to be more consistent. Having said that, the service he has received as a forward since arriving at our club has been less than average, so what's the boy to do???

Get off your high horse, Sean Dyche, and “understand “ your players. Use them to the team's benefit!

You can't apportion blame when you're only guessing at the facts.

Re his problems, everybody was supporting Dele Ali not so long ago.

Demara Gray can be a useful player, he has a knack of putting good balls into the 6-yard box but we never profit from them.

How many here next season?

How many of us have to prove ourselves Monday to Friday to get picked for a competitive confrontation with a rival site at the weekend, with your performance in the weekend ‘presentation' being key to doubling your income through endorsements and selection for the representative team in international competition???

Here's a simple scenario: Dyche is told he needs to come up with three lists from his existing squad for the fast approaching transfer window; must keep, prefer to sell, business needs will determine their fate.

Demarai Gray was obviously on the ‘happy to see back of' list for reasons we will probably never really know (and don't really need to). Dyche, being bluff rather than fluffy, hasn't been two-faced about that decision, which is his prerogative.

Gray understandably doesn't feel wanted, because he isn't.
There is no real blame, it is just a really awkward situation because the move the player would have been satisfied with hasn't materialised. Hopefully it will get resolved in a way that keeps everyone involved happy some time soon.

I like the player's creativity but he doesn't always deliver and has a tendency to ignore others when he decides he can find a shooting opportunity for himself.

He can go cheaply if a sell-on clause is included because I suspect he won't settle in Saudi Arabia.

Will you now? I will tell you this: I would certainly accept the old ‘it's him or me' ultimatum right about now.

And respectfully to Steve 141 and Paul 143, and staying to form, No Steve you are wrong and the credible reason is you don't put a distraction on the bench, it rewards the unacceptable behavior. At least have your agent do the complaining. Or maybe Demarai should use Ian S's approach.

It's not any different at most clubs. No player can be bigger than the manager – even stars like Cancelo, Pogba, Ronaldo get shipped out when they outgrow their boots.

Clearly Dyche didn't fancy Gray, he's not his sort of player, whatever. Had we got Gnonto or Sulemana, then Gray is off for £10-12M; we didn't, so we do need the cover with Iwobi gone too.

For all concerned, it's time to put the 'professional' back into professional football and make the best of it. Same for Dyche. Workmates don't have to like each other…

The world won't end with a little friendly chatter, maybe that's all it takes… who knows?

I don't know why we are still discussing Gray, he's not first choice so tough. I like him as a player but it seems he's spit his dummy out.

Tony 157, what's wrong with the football we are playing?
Dyche knows a player when he sees one all right, but there's a small matter of affording them.

Did anyone see the BBC online story about Keane's Emirates troubles yesterday and good samaritan Micah Richards (anyone else not like his 100% contrived fake laugh?) and notice that the photograph of the two is not from yesterday but from the Old Lady?

Now I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists but they just had to pick us, didn't they! I mean someone who didn't think this thing through might even think it was one of us who did this at our ground.

Man arrested after Roy Keane allegedly assaulted during Premier League match at Emirates Stadium

He has quality and is usually fit and available yet Maupay kept getting a game while Gray didn't. Now that would piss any player off.

Dyche is the manager and it is his job to manage all the different personalities.

Now that Iwobi and Davies have gone, we need Gray as a part of a very thin squad.

Sit down with the lad, Sean, and get him motivated. We still have the option of a 1-year extension at the end of his contract and he is as cheap as chips.

Gray could and should apologize but as the manager Dyche is the de facto adult in the room. At some point between now and January, we will need Gray due to lack of alternatives

The Foreign clubs have another seven days or so to sign him so, if they really want him, they will come back with a bigger offer; if they don't, he stays ‘til January at least.

The squad is desperately weak and short of players; I'd prefer Gray to stay, he will be needed at some stage. Gray and Dyche are grown men they will have to grin and bear it if they don't get on – the team is all that matters at the moment.

Who do Saudis come under, Uefa, Fifa?

Surely they must belong to some Governing body and conform to their rules; otherwise, they are using their own rules illegally.

Here's an explanation as to why their transfer window shuts after ours………

When does the Saudi Pro League transfer window close?

I lost my mate early this morning, Gerry, he often mentioned how well he was looked after by you and your colleagues when you transported him to and from the hospital centre a few years ago. He always looked forward to those few hours he spent there, thanks for those days Rob.

My mate would have liked you, he did his delayed National Service in Germany because he was finishing his apprenticeship as a plumber. Thank God he never had to fight in the wars that you did.

Rob, Yes, Gerry lived around the back of West Derby village, he was a very good centre-forward with quite a few decent amateur teams, The NUR, Harroby and a few sides over the water and for a couple teams in the Welsh League. He was a Liverpudlian but his interest was always in Aamateur football playing and then following The Seymour in the Sunday league. Most of all. he was a good, genuine, generous man.

We have Danjuma, Harrison, McNeil and Dobbin. Gray is an okay player but very replaceable.

Nice to see so many TWers change up on their impressions of tactics like Jooroobachardo and disaffected Primadonna pretenders. He isn't James you know.

And of course, my condolences to you Dave.

Chin up mate!

Did anyone notice Jesse Lingard is available on a free. Nah sooner have Demarai Gray.

It is being assumed that Gray's vitriol is being targeted at Dyche. Dyche just happens to be his immediate boss and the bearer of news. In this situation, there has been wider involvement of others in the club in this saga and botched attempt to sell Gray.

I've experienced enough in life to know that:

Enjoy family

Enjoy life

Enjoy football

Try to enjoy Everton. I do!

I wish him well but I do want the club to receive what he is worth, especially from Saudi Arabia, £12M please to go in the coffers for January. Hopefully we have new Lowndes then too.

Lot's of talk of Dyche not working out, it's a little premature I feel after the brilliant job he did last year. Let's give him a chance with strikers at his disposal, McNeil getting fit and Harrison coming in. Brainthwaite is going to tear up trees this year, I called that two years ago.

If we are to look at new managers down the line we should at least be studying the Ipswich Town manager, hottest managerial prospect to come out of England for many years. I think he would be excellent.

Fail to prepare - should become our new club motto - I wonder how it sounds in Latin?

I was never a fan of Dyche. That's just footballing principles.

However.

His (our) Everton side played some decent stuff last season. And despite the results (Villa aside), they performed well so far. The results will come. We have the players.

In my humble opinion, he and Thelwell have done a great job of protecting the team from Billy Smart's Circus going on around them. We know where the problem is.

From what I read and see, they are focussed on the pitch, where it matters.

Beat Arsenal, Brentford and Luton, and get one step closer to Wembley and we'll all be in a better place.

Cue conversation with my son and brother.

I can see them looking at me now.

But I will be up on the 17th for those who are around. And Brentford.

Just a little story about him and then I'll leave it, he was a man who didn't like a lot of fuss made about him, however: Gerry was a Liverpudlian, his wife Kathleen was a Blue and she was an Everton shareholder, when she passed away Gerry inherited it and always gave me his right to go to Everton's AGM as a proxy vote which I was happy to use, just one of the many, many happy memories he left me with.

Dyche said he understood the financial constraints before he signed so he knew he and Thelwell didn't have much money to spend, and in this window he has also had to sell to help balance the books which isn't helpful. But football is a results business and after spent the last 2 seasons avoiding relegation by the skin of our teeth, then if results don't improve quickly he will be under enormous pressure. I do think when everyone is fit we have better attacking options than last season, with Beto, Danjuma and Harrison added to our attacking options. I will be interested to see how Dyche sets us up with these attacking options, what he wont be able to do is have 3 holding midfield players.
So yes he will need time, but we have to see an improvement in league position by Christmas otherwise the merry go round will start again. I know many say you cant keep changing managers and they are right but what happens if the ones you hire fail badly.

Paul Ferry, fully agree re: Micha Richards.

Hopefully, we'll be in a healthier position by the time that trip to Spurs comes around, and we may be well on the way to safety by then. How are we even discussing safety after just four games, it's ridiculous, but unfortunately that's where we are as a club.

This could be for two reasons either the coaching system is inconsistent consisting by management by drives, rather than a overall program or the opposition successfully implement tactics to counter improvements. In the former the Finch Farm regime could be part of the problem and in the latter error prone players don't help.

During the International break it would be expected that hard work would help. But this has never been the case a Everton.The concern is that Grays outburst for whatever reason my aid any grievances , not helped by a lackist work environment

Everton defensively need alot of work.The same problems are evident match after match, with the same flaws causing similar goals.The only difference in the last match was a effective attacking threat, that actually scored goals Without that threat Everton would have lost that game by aleast two goals.

Dyche needs to be able to lead and have players on board, which has always been difficult at Everton.Dyche has to work with a failed regime at Everton and is remitted to do so since he started.

Dyche with Thewell help has improved the forward options, but he needs depth, and Gray being the most capable.Calvert Lewin seems destined to be a jury out player,But the defence needs to improve.

I the first week of Sept there is hope. I don't subscribe to Dyche the problem, him being the only capable Manager available or referees decision theories, having the view that you can't beat the referee. The players seem to be advised right in their reactions.–

There's every reason to believe it to be true, Everton's cash-flow is the issue, the proposal of MSP to put in the £50m loan would have eased things and perhaps resulted in a couple more players joining us. I don't know what happens to the 'signings' if we haven't got the dosh next year, though.

The extent to which this will cause us problems in a year or so would perhaps require Paul the Esk's expertise. On the upside, there are some big earners coming off the wage bill, either this season or from the beginning of next. It's not impossible we may need to generate more transfer income from sales. The stadium delay won't help matters on revenue.

Either way, I suggest that the person responsible for cashflow projections will be working overtime right now. My perception is the net gain from this window will provide enough leeway to carry on funding the stadium, though our extortionate interest payments are a problem. But I sense that is going to run out of funding by Xmas, give or take. So we may also be trading in the January window. Moshiri desperately needs a cash injection or a sale. This is now much less about P&S, much more about staving off bankruptcy.

You're right- in my dreams

Actually I've not seen a breakdown of that I fully understand but that net figure is repeated several times, with slight differences.

One has our incoming spend at £25m. I assume that is Chermiti and Danjuma's loan fee but no idea if it includes anything for Beto, certainly not all of it.

I suppose what is most surprising if that the figures and my assessment are even close to correct, and that only the short term matters right now, to the point of survival, the Chermiti buy seems an odd one. Makes me wonder if the plan is to turnover either him or Beto very quickly. But a risky plan under the circumstances.

I suppose if you are in financial diffs it is best to conduct business that way. The media is full of queries on Everton's Financial position. Too much was leaked by the Club on progress. Bill could not help himself.

Luton Town 0pts

Away v Brighton Lost 4 - 1
Away v Chelsea Lost 3 - 0
Home v WHU Lost 1 - 2

Bournemouth 2 pts

Home v WHU Drew 1 - 1
Away v Lfc Lost 3 - 1
Home v Spurs Lost 3 - 0
Away v Brentford Drew 2 - 2

Fulham 4 pts

Away v EFC Won 0 - 1
Home v Brentford Lost 0 - 3
Away v Arsenal Drew 2 v 2
Away v City Lost 5 - 1

Crystal Palace 7 pts

Away v Sheff Utd Won 1 - 0
Home v Arsenal Lost 0 - 1
Away v Brentford Drew 1 v 1
Home v Wolves Won 3 - 2

Wolves 3 pts

Away v Man U Lost 1 - 0
Home v Brighton Lost 1 - 4
Away V EFC Won 0 - 1
Away v Palace Lost 3 - 2

Forest 6 pts

Away v Arsenal Lost 2 - 1
Home v Sheff Utd Won 2 - 1
Away v Man U Lost 3 - 2
Away v Chelsea Won 0 - 1

Burnley 0 pts

Away v Lpool Lost 3 - 1
Home v City Lost 0 - 3
Home v Villa Lost 1 - 3
Home v Spurs Lost 2 - 5

Sheff Utd 1 pt

Home v Palace Lost 0 - 1
Away v Forest Lost 2 - 1
Home v Man City Lost 1 - 2
Home V EFC Drew 2 - 2.

Palace PL 2 W 2 D 0 L 0 = 6
Forest PL 1 W 1 D 0 L 0 = 3
Fulham PL 1 W 1 D 0 L 0 = 3
Wolves PL 2 W 1 D 0 L 1 = 3
EFC PL 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 = 1
Sheff U PL 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 = 1
Burnley PL 0 W 0 D 0 L 0 = 0
B'mouth PL 0 W 0 D 0 L 0 = 0
Luton PL 0 W 0 D 0 L 0 = 0

Table based on results against each other so far.