Plucky depleted Everton sock it to The Villains!

Doesn't defend, just wants to showboat like Grealish. Doesn't defend.

Big Bad Davey shouts at him and he just curls up into a little tiny ball.

Sad really... really sad.

Who will make more impact in team? McNeil or Dibling? I wish I knew.

Good to hear a positive voice, COYB

Plenty of us Blues heading off from Yew Tree now to the ground, loud n proud. COYB💙

It's Mr Moyes, he has a problem with the number 9, the Devil's number.

I imagine we might see Beto, Dibling, and Aznou at some point in the second half, I'd like to see that anyhow but you never know with Moyes.

After his cameo at the weekend, I'd say that Aznou deserves half an hour to show what he can do -- hope we see the good McNeil and not the anonymous one.

Something different? Not Davey.

Do people expect us to storm places like Villa with seven out?
Fantasy Island in here.

We are unlikely to be able to break quickly in large numbers so we have to be immaculate in defence and perfect in possession, putting away whatever chances we can force.

Always living in hope. Come on, you confounding Blues!

Aznou is warming up with the rest of the lads. I wonder if McNeil picked up a late problem?

I'd say three, possibly four players short, from fielding our strongest team, and look at how completely threadbare we look.

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail; this is a game that could have had so much riding on it for the expectant Evertonians amongst us, and for those who have travelled.

I hope the team put in a worthy performance because an unexpected win today would put us in a decent position points-wise and keep the season interesting for those of us who aren't losing interest by the day!

A perfectly good goal.

The offside decision against Everton seems contentious.

More of the same please!

Yes, Armstrong was in an offside position; yes, he jumped with the defender... but did nothing to affect the ball or the defender's access to it.

So exactly why the fuck was it disallowed? Absolutely criminal decision.

Somebody in football needs to take this nonsense up with PGMOL and stop them from finding any reason they can to disallow perfectly good goals. It is completely ruining the game.

We still need to pass a lot more crisply as at times the ball barely reaches its target. Villa could have had three and at times our central defenders don't look too interested in marking and drop back too far to challenge for the ball.

The Ref looked a bit of a homer after carding McNeil. I thought it might be an interesting afternoon but he let Villa off for a couple similar to McNeil's.

I wondered when the Villa player hit Tarkowski with an outstretched arm if it wasn't a bit like the "dangerous" play that saw Keane sent off?

Then we have VAR finding another version of offside to disallow a goal. Do you have to touch it or defenders to be offside or not?

Yes, I doubt anyone could be less than happy with that performance considering the squad but that 11 out there are playing like a team.

What was wrong with that goal? I couldn't believe it was disallowed. Yes, more of the same please -- without those hooky decisions!

Very impressed with Armstrong again:

The difference Patterson makes to the overall balance of the team is there for everyone to see but it's only half-time so hopefully we can keep our levels of concentration up for the next 50 minutes.

I'm only watching this game because it's Everton and, hand on heart, if I was watching another game and witnessed yet another shocking decision like the one that has cost us a goal, I'd have turned the television off.

I'm at a stage where I simply can't stand what these absolutely embarrassing officials are doing to a sport that I love because the ineptitude bordering on a complete lack of integrity is simply driving me away from watching the game.

Too many pundits, managers, players, ex-players, owners, CEO's all sitting on the fence and not calling out terrible decisions at the top of their voices -- it will only change when this starts to happen.

When a decision to disallow a legitimate "non-interfering goal " like O'Brien's today -- the VAR and should be punished in some way.

VAR has and is ruining the game.

Garner just got away with one !

Get in!!

This has a Man Utd away feeling about it, depleted squad overcoming the odds.

Come on, you Blues!!! 💙

Jake O'Brien is a brick wall in the middle and, even though Patterson isn't amazing, the balance he brings just benefits the team.

Cheers, Jordan!

That's the sort of moment that makes careers.

Had to laugh at the commentator on a moment on camera for Moyes: "He's not great at giving happy faces."

Well done everyone.

Very happy to be proved wrong.

Well done, Blue Boys and Moyes.

Garner was the pick of our players (he could easily have been sent off), Rohl and Armstrong not far behind and Barry is definitely getting better.

We all know it was two-nil really! UTFT

I didn't see that coming.

He comes unstuck when he's expected to win.

Past his best, should never have appointed him in the first place.

We're better away from home. Don't have to make the play, suits us.

Good displays from all, Garner was superb.

Excellent win.

He's got red hair...

Garner and Armstrong were immense, and can we keep O'Brien in the centre, and Patterson at fullback?

Hopefully our injured players and Afcon players are on the way back. Things are looking good.

Just got the result...huzzah!!! Fucking brilliant!

l dish it out through frustration when we underperform but this is brilliant... I can't wait for MotD.

He throws the cups every year, generally throws games against “big clubs”... He claws enough 1-0 league wins to stay above the strugglers but never really challenges the top teams.

So this result isn't, in of itself, surprising. How many times have we seen him have a February renaissance after a miserable Christmas and cup exit?

Then he will peter out in May, start half-baked in August, pick up form after the League Cup exit in September, then rinse and repeat for the second half of the season.

Players are pushing and shoving in the box but you can bet only the keeper will draw the foul. It's a cop out for the referee.

Still those leg-break over-the-ball tackles go unpunished many times and should be a straight red.

Anyway, a tremendous result by the Blues against all the odds again. I hope Patterson keeps his place as he is a natural right-back; whilst not the best, he can only improve if starting there instead of O'Brien.

I did say earlier I fancied us, why I don't know given our poor record there, but I think McGinn going off helped us big time.

My only gripe is VAR for disallowing O'Brien's goal, an absolutely disgraceful decision, and I hope Moyes brings it up.

Great great win and, with players to come back, the only way is up.

We play our best football this season when we press mid and high in numbers.

Credit to the manager when it's due.

Great performance from everyone today, reminiscent of Old Trafford. Brilliant save from Pickford. Realistically 3 points at most from safety now, let's fix our worrying home form and start looking up again.

How old is our goalscorer today? A player that he's kept faith in, mate.

And as for your other Moyes comment… absolutely typical nonsensical whining from another Everton hater.

I thought Garner was Man of the Match but an honourable mention to McNeil who I thought had his best game in ages.

Fair play to Moyes. He seems to be able to get a reaction from a poor result.

Every manager who has replaced him since he left has not worked out. And every manager except maybe Martinez and Benitez have been greeted cheerfully by fans who believed they would take us to the next stage.

I don't know why people think we can go toe to toe with the big teams. Today, the players played the way they were supposed to play and the system worked.

I would really like to see Moyes with some money behind him. Some managers just work at a club for whatever reason and I believe Moyes is that man for us. The club has that -- now they need to make sure the support staff are around him: coaches, scouts and medical staff.

We've just beaten a very good Villa side on their home turf but...

The midfield battled away well, Garner and Rohl were excellent, Armstrong cool on the ball, Grealish relieving the pressure and winning us free kicks.

McNiel played well and helped Patterson out when needed, while the much-maligned Barry took his goal superbly and won plenty in the air and chased and pressed.

Brilliant away performance. To be fair, we've been great away from home, just need to improve the home form. We're in with a shout of finishing in the Euro places!!!

I just saw Moyes in his post-match interview say he wasn't surprised at the decision given other calls against us this season.

Subtle but sharp dig. It was the interviewer who brought it up.

Dr Jekyll was a model of consistency compared to those infuriating Blues.

Come on... you're better than that!

O'Brien's pace in the centre is awesome and he cannot be taken out of there! Tarkowski, Rohl and Garner were all top drawer today. Coyb

Patterson at right-back and O'Brien in the centre works. I hope this carries on. Good performance all round!

Down on numbers, but not spirit.

Plenty have said that we lack character... well, James Garner just showed it in front of the England manager and now shaded Gibbs-White, Wharton, Anderson and Rogers.

I've said it a lot, we look so much better sitting back and countering. I thought Rohl did really well on only his second start, so I'm not writing him off like loads on TW. He showed a bit of tenacity and quality.

Likewise Barry, who won most things in the air and, if we got bodies a bit closer to him, it would pay off even more.

Garner continues to impress but I was a bit disappointed with Grealish. Pickford yet again wins us at least 2 points with that save!!!

I didn't expect anything from this game against a team who have swept everyone away at home, so excellent result and bring the boys home for the next game.

We are better suited by away football: I'm surprised and not surprised -- if that makes any sense. It's when we play at home I get the willies.

Can we give the manager praise instead of incessant moaning we get from the same suspects every week?

What a brilliant blue you are.

With our Afcon players due back in time for the next game, maybe we can afford to be a little more adventurous in our next home contest?

But a well-earned and unexpected 3 points on the road is not to be sniffed at.

Dibling, a near record signing who played in the Premier League doesn't get a look in, nor does Aznou. Patterson and Rohl were only out there because they had to be, Beto was picked ahead of Barry and Armstrong was sent off to Preston and only recalled because of injury and Afcon.

Of the above, Dibling has sadly proved Moyes right. Less so the others. He's a decent manager but not exactly renowned for bringing through youth.

Great result and performance today, good throughout the team but Jimmy Garner is moving to another level. I don't like the idea of him being out of contract. There will be people sniffing around.

Encouraging team mates into the middle of the park to block Villa from playing through the lines and forcing them wide. Future captain?

He won't be a future player if we don't sign him... never mind a future captain.

I think he can play for any Premier League side. The agents will be down his ear.

I agree with the Patterson comments above; I've been saying the same for ages, he hasn't been able to build momentum through injury but he's a decent player as far as I'm concerned.

He's bound to make the odd mistake but let's just get behind him. Same with Barry, okay, he's looked a bit ungainly at times but he's scored some good goals for us, that was a sharp finish today.

I've been behind him since he came, he's moved country into a new league so he's bound to have found it a bit of a shock, speed and physicality wise, but since Christmas he's got a few goals and it's a thankless task up there on your own.

He's a far better player than Beto. I thought he was great today, winning headers, chasing and closing down. There's bound to be games where he looks like he's not up to it but he'll get better. Just get behind the lad, he looks a confidence player.

Okay, they didn't allow the goal, but the linesman initially ruled it out. So, no var, no goal anyway.

Defend narrow and head it away is a strength. The difference under Moyes vs previos managers being a bit more quality in the turnover.

There will be huge disappointment in the Villa end. Emery had no answers to Moyes.

For me, the turning point was old gunslinger McGinn going off injured. They lacked experience in the middle, and from that point, there was a chance of something.

Huge well done to Barry, Rohl, Garner, Patterson, and Armstrong. Big performances.

That was an incredible save.

We should all enjoy our evening and reflect upon the game. Now is not the time for criticism or adverse comment. Save it for another day.

I've given him what I believe was a lot of fair criticism this week so I feel it only right to doff the cap when he reverses the form.

I must confess, I don't get him. He doesn't seem to enjoy this selection malarkey, but there can't be too many managers who can dig out results like this when he is down to the bare iron.

I won a few bob on us today, but it wasn't the performance I expected. I thought our defence would be working overtime, but Garner, Rohl, Armstrong and yes, McNeil went to war with what I believe is currently the best midfield in the country... and they won. That bodes well for the future.
Barry's goal was exquisite. I've been critical of him too.

So, despite being wrong about everything, we got a memorable victory and I ended the day richer than I started it.

As the great George Formby would say -- "Turned out nice again!"

He's being facetious.

Now, that's not spectacular but it's respectable. Stable. Just what was required from this season of transition.

David Moyes is doing what has been asked of him. I get as frustrated as anyone by his approach at times; I, we, need something more inspirational next season.

But, for now, that was a cracking result. Having a right-back, and O'Brien in the middle, made a huge difference. And I have been very critical of Barry, but he did very well today.

Sounds like you would have preferred if we lost so you could continue your biased rant against Moyes.

Your opinions for me have lost respect because it's less about football and more about your bitterness. True Evertonians celebrate victories.

Barry 3 in 4 and 4 in 8. Röhl looking more at home. Patterson not making clangers -- both clean sheets when he started.

So Brighton away at the end of the month. Branthwaite back? Keane available. What is the back 4? Dewsbury-Hall and Gueye back. Who plays midfield? Ndiaye back.

Bench of Travers, O'Brien, Keane, Irogebunam, Röhl, McNeil, Dibling, Beto, Armstrong? Who is going to drop out for the 3rd goalie?

But given Newcastle -14, Forest -14 compared to last season -- are we ready for Europe.

Now then... what time is MotD2 on?

I doubt anyone would begrudge Garner the MotM award but it was great to see everyone giving their all today and it was no surprise to me that Dwight McNeil had a very good game.

The more he plays, the best comes out of him, and likewise with Patterson, whose injuries have stopped him getting a good run in the side, so I hope he continues to be selected.

I think he is the only genuine right-back on the books and, with respect to Seamus, I think his best days are gone.

Very happy with the result and congratulations to all the players for their performance today, along with Moyes.

We've got the best away record in the Premier League. He is performing 'above expectations'.

Totally agree with your summary.

Interesting dilemma which featured after the Forest game. Do we change a winning team?

Although, from my understanding, Garner picked up his 5th yellow card, so is out for the next game.

You are quite correct, of course... facts certainly piss off some posters.

I think there was a yellow card amnesty in December, mate.

That's the most churlish comment I've ever read on here in 20+years. Grow up.

Well done, Moyes and the players. Fabulous result.

Villa 0 Everton 1...

Facts!

The lads who have stepped in, Röhl, McNeil, Harrison and Patterson were all excellent.

Garner ran the show.

Let's get some consistency going and get a few more solid results under our belt and see where it takes us.

And then we have Shaun McGough (38):

I hope all the Moyes haters and McNeil haters shut up now.

(54) john williams @4 and as for your other Moyes comment - absolute typical non sensical whining from another Everton hater

(70) kieran@49…what a brilliant blue you are

Congrats Shaun ,lad... you win today's Knobhead Championship Trophy for squeezing in 'Moyes haters' before anyone else, erm, no one so far.

This might confuse you, Shaun, but can I combine (54) and (70)? But let's begin with awarding you the Prize Knobhead Trophy for your pathetic 'nonsensical' 'another Everton hater'. (Who's the other one, soft lad?)

And, pay attention, Shaun, try to follow this: someone might quite fairly with deep irony say 'what a brilliant blue you are' for unforgivably calling a true blue an 'Everton hater'.

Does that mean the card count goes back to 1?

Please refer to post 47... then read Keiran's post 49 again.

You get some stick on here from certain people but you deserve praise for today's game.

So, if you don't like Moyes, give it a rest for today and enjoy the win. COYB

You can enjoy an Everton win under Moyes... Kieran obviously can't?

Other than that... what am I missing?

Obviously I enjoyed the game and am happy we won.

I was just making the point various posters were criticizing those who've criticized Moyes based on this game. Just as the reverse happened after the Sunderland game.

My point is that, instead of this back and forth of “Moyes is a genius” v “sack Moyes” -- if you look at his record, this is the pattern it always follows based on periods in the season:

Cup defeats, hard-fought 1-0 wins, decent league finishes, no trophies.

So it's not surprising we won this -- just as it's not surprising we lost v Sunderland. But after every win or loss, we have two lobbies going at it as if it's an absolute that Moyes is good or terrible.

I'm not criticizing him or the team; I'm making a point about actuality versus the bi-polar viewpoints on here.

I agree that our away results have been excellent. I think games like today, Nottm Forest and Man Utd, are what David Moyes thrives on.

If we maintain our present points accumulation, we will end up in the mid 50s. That would represent a very decent improvement on last season, the sort of achievable performance to which our owners would aspire.

If that goal could be achieved, the acid test would be “What next?” That would be down not just to a manager, but the ambition and preparedness to spend of those owners.

We have our expectations managed by a completely unambitious manager who doesn't give a flying fuck about cup competitions as they are some sort of hinderance.

Our record at top 6 grounds is not just a disgrace, it's laughable.

These are the inconvenient facts. l personally am still seething with the Carabao Cup exit at Wolves and l'm not going to be apologetic for it.

Thanks for that pal, glad he said something, how they could have thought Armstrong was interfering is beyond me.

I will say this though, Neil, if that's a Villa centre-back scoring, that's given. Paranoid? moi?

On the subject of yellow cards, I believe it is up to 5 for the first half of the season and then up to 10 during the second half of the season, so Jimmy has 4 to go before his next ban.

Great win, Blues. The whole team put a shift in and deserved the plaudits.

Regarding yellow card accumulation, there isn't an "amnesty" per se but the numbers change. Five bookings in the first 19 Premier League matches is a one-match suspension, and we're past that. 10 yellows in the first 32 games is a two-match suspension.

The only one in any kind of danger for us right now is Iroegbunam with 7 yellows. He leads the league in cards per minutes played.

When McGinn went off, they seemed to lose any real conviction of bossing things centrally which greatly affected their apparent game plan.

Great that everything came together so well to give Danny and his fellow stalwarts a great win to celebrate, when the media all obviously thought this was a prime opportunity for Villa to step up their title challenge.

Moyes, Everton... we went to a highly rated Villa side and came away with all 3 points.

There's probably a "but" in there, somewhere, if you dig deep enough.

Me... result!

Result!

He (Guessand I think) is dealt with deftly (and fairly) by O'Brien.

I think the assistant ref flags because he thinks Armstrong actually touches the ball. VAR shouldn't then be able to conjure up some other reason for disallowing it.

At pretty much every free-kick that is crossed in and converted, someone has started in an offside position and then either jumped to confuse the defence or formed a barricade and those goals are usually given as long as the offside player(s) don't actually touch the ball.

Jake O'Brien must be building up quite a tally for unjustly disallowed goals.

Patterson should get another game with Keane's suspension, plus the Afcon boys are back.

Probably forced into playing these players, but really nice seeing a proper right-back provide balance, and Armstrong partner up superbly with Garner.

I have been very critical of Moyes preserving with O'Brien, at right back because it's dreadful watching whoever plays on our right wing being so isolated.

Not just that but both today, when we pressed higher, and in our last victory against Forest, when we defended deep, we did what all good well-disciplined teams do, and stayed compact.

Villa started catching us on the wrong side of the ball a few times towards the end but, because we stayed compact, mainly due to having a player with a bit more speed in the middle of our defence, it didn't leave them a lot of space to operate when they found those little pockets in between our lines. The overall shape of our team was as good as it's been all season today.

I think McGinn going off certainly galvanised us, he seems to make them tick in the same way that, to a lesser extent, Dewsbury-Hall does for us.

Would we have won, drawn or lost? We'll never know... but I really think it had a massive bearing on the game.

Now for the next win.

That said, had the linesman kept his flag down, there's no way VAR would have ruled out the goal, because as you say Armstrong wasn't truly "involved" and they would normally let that go.

Andy #116, good call. McGinn is the engine who makes them go and his loss made a difference.

Mid 50s points. It is a very tight league this year.
Taking the points from last season's remaining 16 games, then the top 4 are away and gone. Bottom 2 are gone.

There are 9 teams in the middle and Chelsea only got 15 in those games and are not as good as last season (hence the manager sacking), so I reckon, if we get over 60 points, we will be in Europe.

Better get out the credit card, Danny!

I said after the Forest game that Moyes should not have changed the back 4. They deserve to keep their places for the next game.

Armstrong, Rohl, McNeil and Grealish were all good. Good finish by Barry, and Garner the outstanding player.

The players performed last week as though they had no belief that winning the FA Cup 3rd Round game is a step towards winning a trophy. Symptomatic of this manager who is a serial loser.

Let's not be fooled that what he delivers we should be grateful for. We know his ceiling. But his ceiling should never be ours. He's a better manager than most out there, but that's not saying much. There's a dearth of good managers. Which is why his stock has risen simply by remaining in management.

Moyes has always been a "two steps forward, one step backwards" manager, up to a certain point. He cannot operate at the top end of the game. And as much as today has been an enjoyable result, it's an anomaly.

VAR discussions have got to be broadcast.

Even Royle lost to Bradford and Port Vale in the FA Cup and he was a winner.

Very good performance today, classy finish by Barry, another save-of-the-month by Jordan, but Grealish is to me taking it way too easy to make us pay the reported £50mill to keep him.

And regarding the away vs home performances, I just wonder whether our new stadium is still something of a psychological conundrum to some of our players, which to me would be understandable?

I'm not just singling out Moyes for this. The club has been doing it for over a generation. Even Ancelotti did it against a 3rd string Liverpool team.

Still, if you're happy with it, fuck the cups, eh?

Had it on my moby on the sly and luckily caught the goal when I “went the loo” -- much to my wife's annoyance. So I'm looking forward to MotD2.

I love my boy to death but, fuck, I wish I'd been there today.
I like Moyes til the next game. UTFT! I fucking love this club!

We've been preoccupied with surviving in the Premier League for the last decade...

But your gripe is that we weren't winning any cups, is that right?

Thought this was about Everton winning at Villa.
My apologies.

Welcome to the world of zero ambition and the low bar.

Imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- forever!!!

Apparently that was Villa on 11 consecutive home wins. And we won. But they were “off”... Fuck off!

We fucking did you, you “win the singing” soft twats.UTFT

I'm still not sold on Barry, but credit where it's due. Briilliant finish, good knock downs and hold up play and one-twos.

Those moaning about the referee and VAR should stop tonight and thank their lucky stars. The offside call was absolutely correct and Garner, as excellent as he was, should have been sent off for the push on Rogers.

Pickford in a class of his own, just outstanding. How anyone can ever criticize him is beyond me. He's not perfect, especially coming out on crosses, but he's top 5 in the world and we're lucky to have him.

Special shout to Rohl and Armstrong, two young players who proved they belong today and will only improve with age. Give Patterson his due today, too. He got the job done.

Up the fucking Toffees.

Röhl shot and the post saves Villa. The post never moved. If it had not been there, the ball would have gone wide.

The post (or bar) saving a goal is the most stupid of all the stupid phrases we get from people commentating or writing on the game.

Now ... buy a fuclking striker!

Two natural full-backs gives balance, and O'Brien is awesome at centre-back.

And for that reason, I will never count my team, or any other team, out of a contest before it's even begun. Especially never the mighty fucking blues!!! Anyone who predicts us to lose a game needs more optimism.

The other thing that I think disrupted Villa was Moyes's tactics. There were a few times when Villa seemed genuinely confused that we didn't go for a high press. Martinez was even trying to lure players towards him for it. It looked like their game plan was in ruins.

There were a lot of good performances throughout the team, loads of effort from everyone, but Pickford's quality and Garner's all-action display deserve special mentions. They're both real gems.

He's got the best away record in the league.

We've just beaten the potential champions on their own turf. It's not an anomaly.

I wasn't referring to anyone alive.

When you think about it, it explains why Jimmy G looks so good. There are three or four in front of him working their bollocks off.

And, in turn, he's filling the gaps they leave? Either way, another absolutely boss performance from James Garner.

I think the most accurate and sensible comment comes from Peter Mills at 82, who says: 'David Moyes is doing what has been asked of him'.

Rohl very composed, Patterson worked tirelessly and McNeil improved set-pieces and put in a huge shift. If you give squad players game time, they will be ready when selected.

4 points off a Champions League spot with up to 8 players absent for a month. Imagine if the ownership had actually backed the manager when it became clear mid-December that we would be seriously short?

TFG are probably holding back the announcement of Garner's contract extension as late positive news after they fail to sign new players. They'll time it with the return of Ndiaye, Gueye, Branthwaite and Alcaraz to spin it as “like signing 5 new players.”

Get it sorted and get it announced, as he has been brilliant this season.

Before the Man Utd game, I remember Moyes having a go at the way United have been very trigger happy with regards their manatgers since Ferguson departed, so I detected a little bit more defiance and attitude from our manager, who was about to take his team to Old Trafford.

Although Villa are a big club, I doubt Moyes will have ever looked at them in the same way he looks at Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man United, and now Man City, but he had a good record against City, when they were just beginning to build themselves up, and I can remember him having what seemed to be a personal vendetta against Mancini.

Attitude and defiance is what the old Everton Football Club was built on, until we got taken over by an actor, along with a few of the other important qualities that are needed, if you want to win.

I have always thought that a good boxer knows how to shorten the ring, and the first thing a good midfield player has got to do is to learn the shortcuts, otherwise he will be dead on his feet after 70 minutes.

80% of the earth is covered by water, the other 20% is covered by Jimmy Garner.

Do the words 'time and place' mean anything to you?

This is a post-match thread. They happen after every game. They give people a chance to comment on this particular match... You do get that... Don't you?

There are numerous threads on many websites where people go to express their dissatisfaction with the bigger picture

Your claim that nobody but you cares that we haven't won a trophy since 1995 is acutely embarrassing.

What an observant superfan you are.

I am not in the Moyes camp but that was a performance to be proud of. It was far superior

to the usual backs to the wall and hit them on the break away tactic.

More of the same please.

And yet we won and some people are moaning about Moyes, I kid you not! Some people live in a different reality to me - we are 4 points off 4th place and practically safe with 16 games to go and a decent shout at European football next season. With a small squad with gaping holes in it.

Very disappointed to be out of the cups, this season was always about improving and we are doing that. I, for one, am quite a happy blue, all things considered.

COYB, UTFT etc., etc.

Just like that Merlin Rohl suddenly looks a bit decent.

A very Moyesian, backs to the wall away performance.

Well done Darren for somehow slipping in a George Formby reference.

We’re still in it!

Sort that home form out Davey!

A round peg in a round hole mate

Looking forward to bursting Leeds ( very small ) bubble next week. Its not as if they've got any players with something to prove.

I think Garner covered less ground this game because he was instructed to be the player in front of the back 4 and to use his intelligence, he did it very well.

I have always been a big fan of Moyes, and may have been in the minority on T/W but I said when he returned he would improve players and would leave this club in a much stronger position than it was when he arrived. As for player improvement James Garner has looked a completely different player under Moyes, yes most of the credit goes to the player but I think Moyes has changed the way Garner plays. Jake O,Brien couldn't get a look in under Dyce yet Moyes used him effectively at full back and I think will play him more in his natural position.

Getting back to the game I doubt many had us down for an away win me included, but they deserved the win. Moyes cleverly didnt allow them to play through the middle as they like to, and we took full advantage of the chances we had. I thought Harrison Armstrong looks the real deal and must not go back to Preston on loan, also I have been a critic of Merlin Rohl but I thought he was excellent yesterday.

Friedkin I would suggest you get in your private jet and fly over and let James Garner know how important he is by you coming and offering him a contract he cant refuse, otherwise he will have plenty of clubs wanting his services in the summer and he may feel he cant turn the chance down.

Finally well done Gana Gueye and Illman Ndaiye in winning the Afcon, it will be great to have you both back.

Got it spot on today, also backed up by Merlin Rohl's comments post match.

David Moyes has had such limited options due to injury/squad size, that its been used as means to question his tactical nouse.

Yes I do think changing the team after the Forrest win was a mistake but he has learned from it.

We have potentially a very exciting side, with a few additions we can certainly achieve European football next season.

Moyes is out of touch with modern day offensive tactics.

He's decent on modern day defensive tactics imo.

All credit to him yesterday,a great win.

Villa are in the position they are thanks to their manager who has a knack of changing games to eek out tight results in his favour. The amount of games Rogers has won for them is astounding.

I don't get the constant hammering of our squad.You see how poor they are without their starting midfield and the likes of Sancho and Malen to help change the game for them. Guessand is useless yet many wanted us to sign him.

If you want to compare squads.

You only have to look at the goalkeepers today to see who is the better one.That clown world class my arse.

They have decent full backs, not spectacular. Indeed I think Garner is better than cash there. Their centre halves are bog standard.I would only want Maatsen out of their entire defence.

Central midfield Tielemans is class but without legs around him he gets exposed as it did yesterday. We have about 6 central midfielders better than Bogarde, maybe 7. This is the best collection of midfielders since Martinez, and in terms of depth it's better. Under Ancelotti for example we had the dreadful Allan with a bog standard Doucoure and an over the hill Sigurddson.

Of course they had the top class Rogers but we won chiefly because he left his shooting boots in the locker. Buendia and McGinn normally play either side but I would take Ndiaye and Grealish over them every day of the week.

Up front Watkins is obviously better than Barry but despite our boy spending the first 3 months looking like lost in the headlights with the speed and intensity of the league, getting bullied left right and centre. He has still only 3 less goals than Watkins who normally gets a handful of chances every game and whose team is set up to play to his strengths unlike for Barry. The young Frenchman will probably now end being our top scorer since Richy and may even get to double figures if he carries on like he did in La liga.

What this result highlights is that we should be doing better in the league. Why haven't we used Patterson more? If you look at how Tarkowski performs next to OBrien, why the fuck is Keane still starting? Why was Armstrong sent to Preston when he was already our best midfielder in preseason? McNeill ability to shoot, assist and set piece expertise why was he exiled and only used when lacking match fitness when we don't have any player who can do all 3?

Those saying thank heavens for not being in a relegation battle need to give your heads a wobble.

When he took over, I believe we had roughly one point per game and were a few points above relegation.

On this day last year we beat Tottenham 3-2 and then won away at Brighton the following week. This season has carried on in a similar vein to the second half of last season and the threat of relegation has been banished.

Criticising the manager I feel is not a fair reflection on his record over the past 12 months. We are doing well and finally looking up. Leave Moyes alone. Lets see where we finish this season, give him next season. If we stagnate in mid table, then look to bring in a younger, more dynamic and risk taking manager to make the next step, if finances allow. However, at present it cannot be denied that good progress is being made.

How anyone can

As to why McNeil has been exiled most on here on his appearances this season wouldn't have picked him and whose position would you play him in, Ndaiye, Grealish or KDH. As for Patterson none of our last 3 managers fancied him, and to be fair he has been injured a lot since Moyes came back. I watched 3 ex keepers last week on Sky, Seaman being one and they had Martinez in their top 3 keepers, rightly or wrongly Pickford wasn't in the top 4.

You say with them missing Onana and Camara you thought that gave us an advantage, we played 2 very young midfield players alongside Garner. I would suggest you were in a minority thinking we would win, given a win would take them to 2nd within 4 points of Arsenal.

I did post the other day that when we get our full squad fit we are a match for anybody and yes we have let a couple of games slip.

As for Brighton away, a Moyes mastrrclass defensive keep it tight & nick one., complete with Ndiaye's seagull taught after scoring!!

O’Brien proving he should stay in the middle. More minutes for Patterson or incoming RB this window?

Ndiaye I think goes straight back in, as does KDH behind the striker, but who has the other centre mid alongside Garner? I don’t think Gueye is necessarily a shoe in.

Barry is clearly first choice striker now, be good to have a fresh second option and for Beto to try pastures new.

Be nice to see a full bench too, with options to change things.

- will that win help attract new players?

- will that win help persuade Jimmy G that it's worth hanging with us (subject to a decent contract being offered), and ensuring his head doesn't get turned?

- Recently someone posed (sorry I forgot who) that our home form was compromised by the 5m extra long pitch at the HDS. This badly exposed the (pace-lacking) combo of Keano and Tarks in central defence.

I think there could be something in this.

Hopefully DM will soon have a full complement of 4 CBs to pick from. He will then have decisions to make, and even more hopefully he will make the right decision of who to start with. Hard to argue against yesterday's pairing, even though JB will be desperate to get a run of games to help him make a late bid for the world cup. Unlike midfielders and forwards, CBs more rarely get subbed tactically, so it can be harder to keep those on the bench happy, especially when there are no cup games to offer rotation opportunities.

I used to think it was because his hands were always tied, but now I am not sure and a part of me thinks that he has always preferred to manage a smaller squad,

It’s a lot easier keeping 13/14/15 even 16 good players happy, than it is keeping 18/20 happy, and a part of me thinks this suits Moyes, because it’s not easy keeping everyone happy.

I was delighted with the performance as much as the result yesterday, and I think it’s a long time since I’ve been that happy watching us play because of our shape, balance, togetherness and movement.

Players only love you when they’re playing - and I think it’s fair to say that every single Everton player, put in a performance worthy of the shirt, and all looked like they were enjoying their work.

If Moyes can integrate more players into his squad, and keep them happy, ready and focused, then I don’t see why he wouldn’t be the man to take us forward. But can he?

You may base your opinion of goalkeepers based on media bollocks all due to him being a world cup winner but the facts tell you it ain't even close. Statistically Jordon has been the best goalkeeper in the league for years with only Raya and Allison in the same ball park. He rates highly on every metric goal prevention, shot stopping and low on errors costing goals. The amount of points he has won us over the years is incomparable. Obviously Donna runs is now the best, a truly world class goalkeeper.

I ain't suggesting McNeill or Patterson has to start but both are valuable squad players who have clinically being underused. Last season for example his goal contributions in terms of minutes played blows Dewsbury Halls out of the water when playing in the same position. He had 7 before his injury and was our top goalscorer the season before. Dewsbury Hall despite my reservations has produced his best form when playing deeper so there is no reason why he hasn't played more in a team which has only scored 24 goals all season, considering he had a third of that in goal contributions by the end of October last year. Today's game is a squad game and one of Emery's strength is using horses for courses ie Lindelof a poor player starts when he goes backs to the wall.

Brian I wasn't expecting us to win but I think Camara is the second best holding midfielder in the league behind Caicedo. Onana bring power, athleticism and provides goal threat and these two hide Tielemans flaws and augment his brilliance on the ball meaning they dominate most of the midfields they play against. McGinn also is brilliant in supporting that midfield. I just thought the odds were value given their powerhouse has been dismantled.

I don't think Garner, Rohl and Armstrong is a huge downgrade on Gana now, Garner and Dewsbury Hall. Armstrong is an elite talent who will undoubtedly be better than all of our other midfielders in time.

For me I thought that if we kept Rogers quiet we could win and the game would suit us with them coming on to us (don't forget their xg is of a bottom half team). Hence I thought first goal would be crucial. Rogers bails them out on numerous occasions thankfully he didn't yesterday but he had numerous sitters he normally buries.

As for your belief in our first team, that is what's wrong with how he have underused this squad. At right back there are games which we may have to use OBrien, others when Patterson should be the choice and in second halves when we need a goal Garner should have been utilised for his delivery. We have won the majority of games when OBrien wasn't played as a right back.

We all know we need a top class one in the summer but we still have decent options there if you consider that Tete Smith Kayode and Veltman are some of the right backs in teams in and around us and that's apparently our weakest position in the team yet none are a huge upgrade on Patterson who would be a decent back up next season.

If so, hard to tell when he will be ready to play again.

Beat Southampton 2-0

Played 25 mins at CB against palace - we score 2 in that time and never concedes. Won 2-1

Beat Bournemouth 1-0

Beat Forest 2-0

Beat Villa 1-0

Also played there against Newcastle on the final day of last season. Won 1-0

18 points. 0 goals conceded. #Beast

I like the Fleetwood Mac reference there!

Great result yesterday, long may it continue.

A good question: can Moyes manage a 25-man squad or is he better managing 15 or 16 players?

I don't know the answer to that, but I think most successful teams have a nucleus of 7 players that play most games, and you know better than any of us a settled side winning is every manager's dream.

Obviously during the season injuries and suspensions play there part. But as you know, no player wants to sit on the bench unused, so it's very difficult keeping 25 players happy when most weeks, ~10 of them won't get a game.

I know Moyes says he was torn as to whether Harrison Armstrong should go on loan, and you can understand his predicament: if Garner, Gana and Dewsbury-Hall were fit plus Alcaraz from the bench, how much game time would Armstrong have got? Very little in that stage of his development.

I also think Moyes has sent out the promising youngsters on loan, which makes sense.

I said a few days back I was really optimistic about this team when the Afcon is finished and we have Dewsbury-Hall and Branthwaite available. Plus the exciting talent that Armstrong is -- and Rohl really surprised me yesterday, by far his best game in a Blue shirt... although, to be fair, he hasn't played many.

I refer you to a previous post #47 which as a 'superfan' l expressed my delight at the away win. The subject that followed was my agreement with another poster who correctly pointed out that this was almost formulaic from Moyes after bitter disappointments.

If you'd bother your arse to read it in the context of the comments of the thread, you'd realise l'm not for one second suggesting l'm the only who cares about whether we win a trophy or not... But l do care about that and it would appear to me that a January end to the season is perfectly acceptable to you.

Ian B posted the players unavailable alongside the subs bench from the last time we played in a cup final under Moyes. Whereas everyone thought he was doing a great job at Everton, with no money, I have since looked at things differently and believe he prefers to work with a smaller squad, for the reasons we both state.

It's not easy keeping everyone happy, but surely the best way to make the fans happy would be by integrating more players into the squad to become more and more competitive.

Look at the games this weekend. The team in 1st place drew at the 17th placed; 2nd lost at 6th, although it was also a derby match; 3rd lost at home to 11th; 4th drew at home to 19th; 6th drew at 20th, and Chelsea beat the team next to them in the table Brentford 2-0.

The Premier League is very competitive but, for the first time in years, I would actually fancy Everton against anyone if we had everyone firing on all cylinders and we also had enough good players on the bench that our manager would have no problem introducing onto the field at any given time.

Are you saying Gueye, McNeil and Tarkowski have regressed based on their individual statistics? 'Cos I'm baffled by that one.

I think Tarkowski is slightly more prone to mistakes, but that's down to him, not the coaching. I think he might still rank as our best defender on Opta anyway. The other two I see no significant difference either way in their performances.

McNeil is obviously not being played in his favoured position and I think is unfairly maligned at times, but he's always been slow and he's always been one-footed. No change there then.

By the way, Keane has also improved significantly this season, along with Garner.

What Moyes has done is improved our points tally, and to be honest, that's all I care about really. If he can find a way to better our home form whilst maintaining the away performances... we're in Europe this season. Big 'if' though.

Yeah, I would like us to be 8th rather than 10th but, if you're suggesting that Moyes is somehow holding us back from doing better, I think you are mistaken. Or, to put it another way, you are looking at the season with your glass half-empty.

We can do the defending great, there's only 4 teams who have conceded less than us. It's the attacking bit that we are a little deficient on. That/s where the very best players make the difference.

It's unfair after a performance like that, but we need another, say, three top forward players to get us further up the table and consistently challenging the top.

I did fancy us yesterday. I said as much on here before the game, but I didnt expect our defence to have such a cushy game.

Rohl and Armstrong brought us a level of energy in midfield that has been missing for a long time. They didn't just cause problems. Assisted by McNeil and MotM Garner, they repeatedly strangled Villa attacks at birth.

Anybody thinking Moyes only has one decision (Patterson) to make next time out needs to think again. He has several selection headaches to keep him awake.

The mind-numbingly stupid adage of "Never change a winning team" is only ever spouted by people who won't or can't give a simple football matter any thought. Even Moyes won't go there.

Our boy Davey may have earned himself a few days respite. But there is a growing school of thought that he is much more comfortable and more effective when the team is picking itself.

Tarkowski looks a totally different player with either O'Brien or Branthwaite beside him, as Sean has alluded to. This is not a coaching problem; it is both a selection problem and because Moyes is at least trying to play further forward than Dyche.

Silva lost his job because he had us on the half-way line with Keane and Mina as even then we were playing some great but suicidal football without Zouma.

I don't subscribe to the improved Keane who is the same player he was under Koeman, Silva and Ancelotti. He has still been a liability but has just cut out the silly errors prevalent under Dyche.

With McNeil, I think he looked disinterested playing for Moyes, who bigs up his starting players yet hammers those he doesn't chose as lacking quality. The fact that McNeil has now got a little more encouragement has seen us pick up 6 points thanks to him for his output against both Forest and Villa. He offers what no one else does in this squad and that is shooting on sight.

With Gueye, it may not have anything to do with Moyes -- just age catching up -- but I was just pointing out the inaccuracies in Brian's point. It may also be true that maturity is the reason for Garner's upturn but I also think he is suited by trying to control games which was not the purpose under Dyche. Garner is able to show the talent he had to make him play for Man Utd.

As for our improved points tally being down to Moyes, I don't see it that way. I think our improved (though not spectacular) points tally is down to TFG. Indeed, we really should have more. I don't think the club spent £120M plus a loan fee of £12M for Jack Grealish, so we could be sitting above the drop zone.

Moyes last season no doubt greatly overachieved but this was also helped from the bounce factor and a manager who had constrained the life of the players and had been worn down by the proceeding 2 years of madness.

I would give Moyes a lot of credit for our second half of the season and he seemed to get everything right and played to our players' strengths. If you see how we have performed with the bare bones, which is essentially what Dyche had to work with, we have essentially done the same this winter as Dyche did.

I can't fathom the low expectations and gratitude supporters have for this season and can't understand why many are hailing it as a success. Brentford to me is a manager seriously over-performing with the players at his disposal and were we to finish in the Top 8, I would seriously doff my cap.

However, since Spurs and Newcastle have struggled with their European involvement, I feel we could have taken advantage as they no doubt will finish strongly.

Moyes deserves credit for yesterday's win but we are certainly not overachieving in any way this season as the expectation was a top-half finish at the start of the season.

You actually say the words. They are still up there. The only context I can see is you trying to be superior and remonstrating with, well, everyone else -- that's of course If you can bother your arse to read them.

BTW, I wouldn't keep directing people to post 47 if I were you. If you can't handle the unbearable stress of a second half watching the team trying to get a result, how will you ever cope if we did start to challenge for cups?

People will be reading your post and hope they never have to partner you in the white hot pressure cauldron of the village Snakes and Ladders doubles tournament.

Probably because we're 4 points off Champions League football currently. As you only consider it necessary to finish Top 8, why are you being so critical of Moyes? He is well on course for that, especially considering the players we have out currently who will massively improve us.

Due to Moyes's underutilisation of the squad and maddening selections, we have not grasped our chance this season. To finish 8th, we will need a minimum of 60 points as teams like Newcastle and Spurs inevitably improve without European commitments.

We may need 61, 62 or 63 points based on our likely inferior goal difference which means we would need close to 2 points per game and we still have to play the Sky 6 which Moyes has such a poor record against.

Moreover, having players back and excellent options only seems to confuse Moyes rather than help him. Against Leeds, with their poor away record, I would be less confident than I was against Villa.

Against Fulham, we won largely thanks to our overlapping full-backs and the ability to break down a compact team. If Keane or Branthwaite is fit, would you be confident that he will start with Garner or Patterson at full-back? I wouldn't be.

I disagreed with Conor about it being a giant killing (it wasn't a giant killing but I didn't expect us to win, especially with such a positively professional performance) but he put his money with his own particular knowledge and actually won money on Everton yesterday.

I agree entirely with Conor that we have some players in our squad who are nowhere near as bad as their lack of game time indicates. I was also expecting at least a mid-table finish; this is where we have come in the previous two seasons -- if you count the number of points we got taken off us two seasons ago.

The season has seen us go out of two cups, very early, so I genuinely don't see why people are already calling it a success. But hopefully it turns into a massive success because, if we get our players back and go on a good run, then who knows where we can finish this season.

I'm still fuming over the Brentford and Wolves games, more so because I thought our manager changed a winning formula as well as a winning team, Darren. So let's hope this doesn't come back to haunt us because a 4th or 5th place finish is definitely on if we believe in ourselves enough.

Branthwaite unavailable. Patterson missed the first 93 days or 12 games through injury and Coleman missed 10 games or 48 days of injury. Both have been injured for long periods of time, and even when back in training, they are miles off the fitness needed for the Premier League. Both have gone through the circle of breaking down, and there's a question mark as to whether they can stay fit.

Apart from moving Garner to right-back, there were little other choices -- but O'Brien at right back, and Tarkowski and Keane at centre-back for large parts of this season.

Now that Patterson is fit, there is at least a choice. And with the Keane suspension, an opportunity at least for Patterson to rescue a career wrecked by injuries.

Does Moyes have faith in Patterson? Probably not. He might well have been told by coaches the lad is a perennial sick note and a defensive liability, and needs getting rid of. Given the past 4 years, that's hard to argue. And why he might've tried to move forward without him. At some point, players do run out of chances.

For me, I recognise the balance a right-back offers the team. I hope he can stay fit and add to Moyes's squad. We are short in numbers, and we need contributing players on the books.

Moyes is working with the resources he's got. We're 3 points off 5th with players to come back.

Your assessment of Moyes is your opinion but I would say harsh, mate, and by the way, I don't think we're over-achieving, but we're going in the right direction.

TFG have invested £120M but how many players were we looking to replace? That was an essential investment to make up the numbers and not stand completely still.

Secondly, by today's market, £120M isn't that significant anyway. Compare that to what our neighbours spend... or any of the Big 4 or 6. To them, it's two players.

TFG will have expected an improvement and they've had it, so I expect there will be more to come. On the back of what they've seen so far, do you think they'll be in two minds about handing Moyes the cheque-book again? They won't, unless we collapse between now and the end of the season, that is.

To improve at home, we need Dewsbury-Hall and Ndiaye back. Garner has developed into a really accomplished player but Dewsbury-Hall (a Moyes signing) has more impact in terms of creating in the final third and scoring goals.

That £120M had to be spent on recruiting the right players. I don't think Moyes has got them all right, but his knowledge of the Premier League was bang on in us snapping up Dewsbury-Hall for a relative bargain. That midfield still looks average in terms of attacking momentum without him around.

Two other things. One, you say Moyes hammers the players he doesn't choose for a lack of quality. When? He bigs up everyone, he gives honest answers when he expects more from those who play and don't play, I've never heard him particularly hammer anyone.

Two, you say all Keane has done is cut out the mistakes that made him a liability; but otherwise, hasn't improved. That's exactly why he's improved!!

I think the jury is still out for this season. Things can still go wrong. But my expectation is that Moyes will do well enough to be managing us next season following more player turnover and investment.

The entire post is anti-Moyes. There is no other way of interpreting it. Even going so far as to big up last season's performances only to use it as a stick to beat him with this season. While simultaneously claiming that it was 'new manager bounce' that he benefited from in getting results in the first place. Not anything personal that he brought to the table.

He's fond of claiming that Europe is a hindrance but ignores the fact that Villa have won just about every game they've played directly after a European match this season and the winning run we've just ended for them started with a win in Europe against Bologna. Hasn't done them any harm.

He claims that Spurs and Newcastle have been set back by playing in Europe and that they will finish the season strongly. Why? As they are still in Europe last time I looked. Maybe he can tell us?

He claims that this season's results have been down to the investment made by TFG. While again, simultaneously claiming that Moyes failure to use those players (Alcaraz, Dibling, Aznou) is the reason we're not doing as well as we would be. How does that work?

For all the people 'expecting' us to finish Top 10, but not because of Moyes, where would you be expecting us to finish if Dyche was still here? Champions or 4th bottom?

They were always aware of the preferred foot of their opponent and rarely gave up an easy channel behind. On the ball, they were quick to distribute and move. We simply have not seen a trio play that well and grow into the match like that.

Also, giving McNeil a roaming role allowed him to make runs and occasionally retrieve stray balls to preserve possession. Garner and McNeil have playmaker vision from deep positions and both possess long-shot capability. We have something there, we need to play to it.

We haven't seen a midfield trio run a match throughout like that. It could have been chemistry or ot could have been Garner marshalling the action. Either way, that was almost giving me a Bainaar Boner at times. Those three are a midfield brotherhood.

We can do the Moyesology, and we will, but let's not forget how to celebrate these breakthroughs and parlay this into a functional squad... however we get there.

Fuckin Moyes.

I've said it myself, Tarkowski and O'Brien together is the best partnership, at least until Branthwaite returns. What I liked about our midfield yesterday, they were so mobile. Garner was MotM but Armstrong and Rohl defended from the front, and both covered over 12 km.

Even in injury time, Harrison tracked back and stopped Cash going forward. McNeil played well yesterday, and is always a threat with his left peg, but Ndiaye has to come back in, with Gueye on the bench in my opinion.

I'd imagine patience ran out a long time before Moyes was in the building.

I am sure the medical team will have questioned whether he can stay fit, and whether it is better to cut the losses on him. If he'd stayed fit last summer, I think he'd have been moved on.

I wasn't directing people at my earlier post, l was directing you. The premise of your post was that l couldn't enjoy the win and you needed reminding... it's still there.

I won't have to worry about coping with the pressure of Everton challenging for cups because Moyes is our manager.

Gueye is a stalwart who was indeed world class for a period but everyone from the dark days is gradually getting phased out and I'm only happy about it. Jordan being the exception, of course.

Just as Jake has over the last 18 months started to be found out at full-back, I reckon this game would happen with Nathan, but speeded up. Once these wingers smell blood, I think it would be over quite quickly.

If it was anybody else had got us in this position, when you consider we have played quite a few games without a lot of starters, people on this site would be calling him the next best thing.

We all forget when Moyes got money to spend he didn't have the luxury to spend it on one or two players, but to bolster a squad that seriously lacked any quality in depth.

The Villa game showed his tactics weren't lacking due to the players playing the way they were supposed to play, we get the players returning and if he can get the money to buy a forward and a right back who knows how far we can go in the Top 10?

But we have to remember we don't offer any of the top players what they all want: European football... or have the money to spend £50M+ on one player.

But for fuck's sake, let's give credit where credit is due. Look where Forest and Spurs have gone this season, who had money and so called managers better than Moyes. Forest are on their third manager and Spurs on the brink of sacking theirs! And I would say people on this site would have no problem swapping squads with either team.

Patterson is shite, that’s all I’ve seemed to read on this website and the reason some people think he his shite, is because the ultra defensive Dyche, never picked him, but when Moyes, came in and used O’Brien, at fullback, everyone said Moyes, had made a fool out of Dyche, because he wouldn’t play him and he looks a decent player.

Patterson was very ropey early on against Forest, but he showed he had plenty of bottle by sticking to his task and although his team won and also kept a clean sheet, he was back out the team the next game.

If that’s a manager giving you a proper chance, then no wonder the kid has got so many detractors, but he’s played another two games since then and after (personally) suffering (exasperation) from watching O’Brien, playing fullback, I definitely questioned Moyes’s judgement, for the overall benefit of his team, with his selections against Brentford and Wolves?

I remember Patterson, was doing okay under Lampard, until he got injured but this is a kid who has played very little senior football, considering his age, and although he’s not the best defender (a product of the modern academy system possibly?) he can definitely get the ball out of his feet and play forward, and this has been badly lacking and a major hindrance to our attacking play, while Jake O’Brien, has been plodding away at fullback. (IMO)

It’s impossible to say where Dyche, would finish Grant, but he did finish round about mid-table, with his team playing under enormous pressure when his team was initially deducted ten points, and this is why I would expect any Everton manager, to get us into the top half of the table, now that the pressure has eased and we also have a much better squad of players.

These threads would make a great boxing match; the pro Moyes fans come out swinging when Everton win, and the anti Moyes fans counter whenever Everton lose, but in a season that has been littered with mistakes, for every club bar Arsenal, (even though they’re also stuttering along) I think that some of Conor’s criticism is valid, and can’t stop thinking that our manager missed a massive trick, with his team selections for our last two home games.

Hopefully we get to judge if Europe, is also going to be a hindrance for Everton, next season, and if I was Moyes, I’d be looking to be putting massive pressure on TSF, by qualifying for the champions league next season. (Just our luck - last time it was Liverpool, this time it could be Roma)

Maybe I’m thinking above our current station, but football has always been about glory (even for Everton, it used to be - HONEST TO GOD) so aim as high as you possibly can.

I personally don’t and that’s another reason why I agreed with some of Conor’s criticisms.

Both our centre-backs made stupid passes in the early stages which threatened to make us unstable, but the midfield gave them incredible protection; they were able to sit deep and enjoy a very comfortable night.

The midfield trio seemed to be conjuring that same magic in the midfield yesterday.

Patterson has only been played because of chance, and although there are question marks about the defensive side of his game, I don’t think anyone would say that Everton, haven’t looked a much more balanced team in those games?

Top level football is now all about having a decent squad of players, for anyone who wants to be successful, so this has got to be the aim for Our Everton.

Anybody expecting us to move up the park in Keane's absence will be disappointed. Leeds will be more direct than Villa and we will defend deeply. That's a forgone conclusion

I am just curious if you have some more details that illuminated your thinking when you wrote this:

If you see how we have performed with the bare bones, which is essentially what Dyche had to work with, we have essentially done the same this winter as Dyche did.

Are you referring to the period that culminated in Dyche proclaiming that he had taken the team as far as he could? If by 'Winter' you mean the last 10 games Dyche oversaw, we only won 1. In 8 of those 10 games, we didn't even score!

There’s nothing worse than playing in midfield, when your two centre backs keep dropping off, because this instantly makes the pitch, so much bigger, and also puts you on the back foot. I think the higher the level, the more it’s all about closing the space, imo, and the thing that impressed me most about us yesterday, was how close we played to each other, until we broke.

Maybe Keane, might also look more comfortable playing with O’Brien, rather than Tarkowski…….. Who knows?😂😂

Newcastle and Spurs aren't champions League regulars and the former had the same type of drop off last time around only to come good in the 2nd half of the season. This happened under Koeman under us in his second season in the Europa League also when we didn't have the squad to compete. It is no coincidence that Spurs and Newcastle are among the most injury hit squads this season and without 2 games in a week you would expect an improvement. Both are in the Champions League so I wouldn't be confident they would go deep.

If you think this is nonsense I'm quite happy to wager that both will finish above their current positions.

Both Amorin and Moyes stated when playing Palace that they wanted to increase the intensity second half after they played in Europe as Amorin even publicly stated that he knew they were wilting towards the end of the first half.

As for me not giving any praise only the bounce, I thought you told Tony you read my post carefully several times. You might need to go back to read the important bits that he seemed to get everything right and he constantly played to every players strengths, something he clearly hasn't done this.

The irony here being Grant is that you were inadvertently critical as much as me of your boy Moyes when you claimed that Beto was being played to his strengths when he failed to live up to your 15 goal prediction and calling for Alcaraz to start.

Do you agree that Moyes should be playing with Keane and Tarkowski in a high line as he did against Brentford?

Do you agree with not playing with an attacking full back in the home games we are expected to win considering we have accumulated 12 points in the limited games we have done so?

What has Dyche got to do with anything or Moyes last seasons results with this? You talk about being contradictory all the time because you don't seem to understand my posts and draw your own arguments about what I said.

Do I think having Grealish, Rohl, Dewsbury Hall, Barry, Aznou, Dibling, Alcaraz and Armstrong added to the squad should make a top ten finish the least that should be expected, I do. Fuck all to do with what Dyche or Moyes did before but due to the quality edge we have over many of the teams in the division. I think most at the start of the season would agree our squad is capable of finishing between 8th and 13th with a top ten finish about par.

Considering you were talking about 66 to 67 points after our great start why would you be expecting praise for a manager who isn't performing optimally?

Btw we effectively finished 12th with the worst squad in our recent history and our best player was Dwight McNeill who most posters can't wait to get shot of but you want to compare this season to the first half of last and expect everyone to row in with you. Don't forget you did this when you wanted to herald Ancelotti under your different pseudonym before we ended up finishing tenth.

Happy to see him get his shot, but It'll be a while before I can trust him. I'll be paying close attention to how high a line he dares to play.

Also we played in Palaces half when Keane went off and got that epic turnaround.

That Bournemouth game was remiscent of his infamous job on Mbappe which gained him cult status in Lyon.

Now let's beat dirty Leeds and start turning Bramley Moore into a fortress

COYB

I wasn’t sure if it was going to survive because I thought people had stopped debating but just like Everton’s performance on Sunday, this thread has also shown a lot of promise!

There was little protection for the centre halves from the midfield in that game

I don't mind listening to a bit of Irish bias. I grew up with it and often get it in my living room before home matches But you are going to struggle to get anybody to listen to your claim that it wasn't back-to-wall at Forest. Too many people saw Tarkowski and JOB spend the entire night defending their own area as Forest sent in what must have been close to a record number of crosses, Oh and the the defence DID enjoy fantastic coverage at Bournemouth,

What we didnt see at the Palace game, was Everton playing the second half in Palaces half. You made that up. They still kept creating chances until we got lucky with a late penalty and even luckier with a last minute "block goal" from a rare attack.

I didnt see any evidence of JOB's amazing speed recovery when the youngster from Sunderland burnt him and fire just wide last week. Nor when the kid from Wolves changed pace and left him for dead before slotting the equalizer.

I must, however, confess to never hearing about the "infamous" job he did one night for Lyon, but I will take your word for it.

I like his attitude. He just gets on with it when played out of position. I hope he goes on to become an Everton great, but I want to see it with my own eyes rather that be told it from a irish fella who clearly see's the game through green tinted glasses.

Second half it was a complete basketball game with one of the most attacking away performances I'd seen under Moyes away from home.

Palace the same when we threw caution to the wind.

No not Irish bias Darren just one whose followed his career closely.

You may not be impressed by OBrien but considering how many goals we have conceded both last season and this when he has played centre back your claim that you wouldn't start him over Keane or Tarks beggars belief.

You only need to see how many goals have come through our forwards latching on to Keane or how he positionally places himself holding Tarks hand while the ball is on the his side and hasn't got the pace to bail himself out.

I think what surprised me most of all was how well McNeill, Armstrong, and Rhol played. I said in the summer window maybe Moyes might buy a tall Fellaini type midfielder. I think Rhol showed glimpses of that in this game.

I have been critical of McNeill in the past but I thought he put in a great shift. He is very good at pouncing on mistakes and seeing the opportunity for a break. His awareness resulted in the goal that won us the game.

As somebody above has posted Moyes has got the right kind of selection headache if all the players that started against Villa and the returning Ndiaye and Gueye are fit. Even more so when Dewsbury-Hall recovers.

With him at right back we've gained 22 points.

In the other 18.5 games where Keane played we took 20 points, barely over a point a game.

Yeah I agree that having a proper right back was as crucial to helping us win those games with greater balance and attacking threat but it's why the amount of goals conceded when Jake plays centrally is of greater significance 25 in those 18.5

ERM.

Phil Roberts 147: Saw a great comment the other day

80% of the earth is covered by water, the other 20% is covered by Jimmy Garner.

Nothing more abject than the old Mike Gaynes argument that it's not only our players who are doing bad this season, look at PQRSTUVWXYZ at this club and that one and that one. Meaningless. Irrelevant. Lazy. Avoidance.

By the way, anyone who would suggest that we should not bring Matty Cash to our club right now allows their readers to use this level of footy nous to judge all that they say.

While I was, and maybe still am, of the opinion that Moyes was the right short term appointment at the time I'm still not sure from what I've seen and indeed his record, that he is the long term answer to Everton starting to win things but he does have to be given credit for being an improvement on Dyche who really had gone as far as he was likely to. And as for the arguement that we are only 5 points, is it, off 5th position and European competition the same can be said for another half a dozen clubs.

With Branthwaite back, O'Brien alongside & Mikolenko still hsving a few years in him. The defence looks good, with Tarkowski in the background taking a "break glass in emergency" role.

Sort out the permanent right back solution though!

Paul @232, Matty Cash is a top right back. I watched him as a young player for the local youth teams as he's from near where I lived in west London.

But out of reach now; that ship sailed a few years ago.

Tony, & I hope Michael is reading, your comment on TW is bang on. It took a turn in strategy when the new editors took to the helm, but these discussions are helping in back, particularly Michael's post match threads.

It’s been a while, sir. Hope all is well.

New left and right backs for next season.Hopefully both with pace.

That allows us to play higher up the pitch and squeeze the space between the lines,a problem that has affected us all season,especially when we do a half hearted press with not enough numbers.

Luke 'Who' Garbutt certainly didnt under Anchelotti, he wasn't even in the signed squad list, and took the indignity of Anchelotti not having a clue who he was.

I am sure there will have been others that have been out of the picture that havent really been given a chance under new managers. Tosun, Niasse, spring to mind.

That all being said, Patterson has picked up injuries at poor times. 4 games into Moyes reign last season, and he is injured. Obrien comes in, and helps secure a good run of points at right back. Patterson gets back on the bench, but with Branthwaite in the side, the back 4 stays in tack.

This season Branthwaite out, Patterson has his chance. Plays a few friendlies, then ruled out for the opening 12 games and 50 days. Match fitness gone. A real poor display in the efl trophy. It's is start again or perhaps even the end.

Patterson has struggled since he has been here. He's hardly played 40 games in equivalent minutes under Rafa, Lampard, Dyche, Moyes, & caretaker managers. Does he deserve the same loyalty as an Ndiaye, Tarkowski, Pickford, who deliver every week? For me no. It is for the players to fight for the shirt, be available and put in good performances. Not just get injured, be available for a couple of games and expect to play.

He has the shirt, he has another game to impress Moyes. He needs to stay fit for the rest of the season and then he can knock on the door and ask why he isn't playing if out the side. If hes out injured, id suggest he doesn't knock. You're no use to me in physio room, Son".

I didnt say I wouldnt play JOB before Tarks or Keane. You made that up. The fact is, I would play my Mrs before I played Tarks in his current state, but Moyes wont drop him and if Patterson makes the right back position his own. Then it's Moyes's hand that JOB would have to force Not mine

Try to remember you are talking to Evertonians here. They know you are re-writing history when you throw all hands under a bus to make JOB sound like the new Paul McGrath.

They know Moyes didnt, couldnt, allow his team to "Throw caution to the wind " against Palace. Most will read your account and wonder if you even saw the game ? They will have seen Palace play us off the park. They know that we were only in the game because Palace repeatedly let us of the hook by missing some glorious chances IN BOTH HALVES after dominating possession

They will also know that you are talking utter shite when you try to tell them the Forest game was not a backs-to-wall encounter. No doubt some could even tell you how many crosses were cleared form our six yard box.

And do you really believe Moyes allowed his team to go "ALL NIGHT" allowing Bournemouth strikers 4 on 3 situations against poor Jake ? You sound like you have never seen a Moyes team in your life...

You spend long long periods on here telling everyone who will listen that Moyes is a risk aversion, boring twat, but the minute you want to promote you fellow Irishman You portray him as Ian Holloway after a long night snorting Charlie.

If O'Brien wasnt Irish. You wouldnt be be so clouded in your judgement. In your attempts to promote him, you make it sound like poor old Jake has been abandoned by all hands and left to bring the points home Single handedly

Jake O'Brien has done alright at center half. No. Lets be completely fair. He has done more than alright, But you do understand he has enjoyed a massive advantage over The two who usually occupy those positions ? You do understand that he has never been handicapped by having to cover for a 6ft.6 full back who turns like a ferry boat and can only play going backwards ?

You think you can take people for fools by listing the points we have gained through him playing, but trust me. They will be all too aware that we have lost points and games BECAUSE of him !

He now has his favoured number five shirt. Almost a fresh start. Every Evertonian will be willing him to do well, So lets see how he does, There will be plenty of opportunities to judge him purely as a center half I can assure you. This is a tough crowd and nobody will be swayed by your cockeyed version of events when judging him.

I do worry about your judgement after reading what you have posted here, but If he turns out to be half the player you are making him out to be. I think we would all be made up

Some would, but I don’t see Mr Moyes dropping Tarks in the short term. Captain, leader, mouthpiece, Moyes will leave him in situ… for now.

O’Brien has made a case for the second berth, but needs to go and state that case emphatically now.

Branthwaite, long time out, needs nursing back in, but will want to play, especially in World cup year, and at his best surely gets a place.

Keane, who Moyes likes, especially as he’s also a goal threat, goes down the pecking order again.

Going to be an interesting period from here.

If only we had this conundrum at full backs…

Would you sell Patterson if a bif of £8m came in, out of contract 2027.

Would you sell beto if no replacement, out of contract 2027?

Would you sell garner & Mykolenko if a bid came in, out if contract 2027. £40m garner, £25m Mykolenko?

Would you sell Mcneil, out of contract 2027?

You might get bids, when you don't want them..

His physique doesnt suit the modern day full back/wing back or whatever they are called these days.

Similar to the Titanic, he cannot accelerate quickly from a standing start or turn on a sixpence. He is built to be and is a centre back.

If any club bids £25 mil for Mykolenko I will happily carry him there.

Then play McNeil at left back until the summer? Good comment

There are 6 clubs who have improved by 9 points or more compared to last season. United and City, Arsenal and Leeds and Sunderland (compared to Leicester and Southampton).

That means all the other 14 have either not significantly improved or done worse than last year. Better or same are Fulham & Villa (2), Spurs (1 - don't laugh) and Bournemouth (0). All the others have less points than over the same 22 fixtures last season.

To put that in perspective. If all teams match last season over the next 16 games - we would end up 6th, just 2 points behind Chelsea and the possible 5th Champions League Place. We can but dream but knowing we are Everton, we will either finish 6th on the same points as 5th and lose out on Goals scored as the goal difference is the same or English clubs will mess it up and this year we do not get that 5th Champions League place.

Anyway, what would we be without something to worry about in April and May - but much better "will we be in Europe" rather than "will we stay up"

As a centre-back, he does the basics in defending the penalty box, heading crosses and corners away, except for the one against Arsenal, but I don't see a very good centre-back there or a decent footballer.

I'll wait and see but I'm not sure he'll be a long-term centre-back for us. I would definitely play him before Keane for the simple reason we don't defend too deep as we do when Keane plays.

As for we concede less goals when O'Brien plays — do we only play with one centre-back when he plays or is it because Keane isn't playing?

Or is it because Tarkowski has had a very poor season, struggling after a hamstring injury, but is putting better performances in now?

Branthwaite is obviously the best defender we have but he had some poor games before his injury, proving that all players make mistakes. He will take time to get over that injury and shake off his rustiness after being out so long.

I'd trust Tarkowski out of all of them for now and next season.

Spend the £25M on a better full-back?

He will improve with playing regularly in that position.

Tarkowski has played around 140 games for Everton and -- Branthwaite or no Branthwaite, O'Brien or no O'Brien -- you will not have seen him venture too far away from the penalty box he is defending, he simply wont do it unless we are chasing a game. He never did it before he came to us and certainly won't start doing it now.

Keane on the other hand is more likely to show up in the opposing penalty area from open play than any center -back we had since Derek Mountfield. He gets forward more than the other three put together... yet he is the one who makes us defend deep?

It's bollocks driven by confirmation bias and it just doesn't stand up.

Get used to seeing Tarkowski and O'Brien standing deep in their own half against Leeds because, if we are not chasing the game or have a dead ball situation, you will not see them from the Leeds half without the aid of a telescope.

Tarkowski will venture upfield a lot more than Keane who, with loads of space in front of him, never ventures much with the ball and the only time you see him in the opposing half is from a dead ball situation or on his way back from one.

O'Brien is even less likely to venture forward with the ball. I'm not sure if it is because of lack of ability or confidence; he is relatively new to the Premier League. Out of the three of them, Tarkowski is the only one urging them on throughout the game.

Keane is having a decent season going by his usual standards but has made plenty of cock ups and got away with them. His goals have a lot to do with the praise he is getting, not his standard of performance.

It's not confirmation bias, Darren, he is still the same as he always was: seconds behind the game and hardly any anticipation whatsoever. Lovely fella but not a very good defender, imo of course.

If we ever have a bevvie together, we'll agree on most things Everton but, on this occasion, we'll just have to agree to disagree, Darren.

65' Everton sub Iroegbunem for Keane
66' Alcaraz shot saved
67' Tim Irg wins free kick in attacking half
71' Grealish wins free kick on left wing
73' Pino wins free kick in defensive half
74' penalty conceded
74' goal Iliman Ndiaye
77' corner Everton
78' attempt missed Beto
81' attempt saved Jack Grealish
81' Guehi wins free kick in defensive half
82' Gueye wins free kick in defensive half
87' Munis wins free kick in defensive half
90' attempt missed James Garner
91' attempt missed Charly Alcaraz
92' attempt blocked Adam Wharton
92' attempt saved Beto
92' Goal Jack Grealish

Your claim that Moyes didn't throw caution to the wind when O'Brien came on, that they repeatedly missed some glorious chances in both halves... According to the live match thread, the only chance they had if even that was a blocked shot on Wharton. Indeed they 'missed' no chances.

The game was exclusively played in Palace's half from the substitutiion right up until the goal. Indeed, they only had one other notable action according to the live text which was winning a foul in our half.

They also only dominated possession in the first half, not after the sub was made. Indeed we shaded overall possession with 50.3% based on our dominance after the substitution.

As for both the Palace and Bournemouth games, your point was that Jake only played well when we parked the bus in front of him. The Bournemouth game saw a midfield 3 of Iroegbunam, Dewsbury-Hall and Alcaraz; this wasn't a typical Moyes preferred three who all are more defensively astute in their respective positions.

The second half of the Bournemouth match saw 13 shots, 8 from us (which is quite high for us!) with both teams trying to go for the win.

After that game, I was delighted and called it that way and praised Moyes and commented that O'Brien performed like Branthwaite hadn't been away on the night. I ain't saying he's anywhere near as good as Jarrad but he's a different level to our other centre-backs.

ps: Darren, apologies for the Forest game. Schoolboy error. With the two games coming so close together, I initially thought you were trying to paint a narrative that Jake is a mirror image of Tarkowski and can only perform sitting deep with 3 in front holding his hand.

I was thinking of the Forest game at home in which he didn't play when we weren't camped on our box. I knew that wasn't a backs-to-the-wall game. Sorry.

What impressed me most about his performance against Bournemouth was that he was not only defending one on one against Croupi, who's quick, but he was also doing what Zouma did for Keane by always getting round on the cover.

Totally agree about Tarkowski not wanting to venture far from his 18 yard box, he knows he has no pace and is getting slower by the month. I think Keane this season has been far better than Tarkowski and certainly carries more of a goal threat. Yes he is a decent defender but I also think his lack of pace hinders how much we can press the opposition as if the forwards and midfield press which forces our back 4 up to the half way line and the opposition play a ball over the top Tarkowski is left for dead.

I am totally in agreement with Dave Abrahams (sorry Darren) over Michael Keane who is not consistent enough a defender to warrant a regular place. His concentration is poor and when a player gets in behind him, he is so slow to recover it is too late.I know he had a purple patch for a few games this season but his weaknesses remain and are clear to see.

Let me tell you what me and 5200 other people saw. Not on some "live txt" but with our own Eyes.

WE (52000 of us and millions watching on around the world ) Saw Mateta go through unchallenged in the SECOND half. He should have buried it, but he lifted it over Pickford putting far too much air on it and allowing the defender to head off the line - See if you can guess who that defender was ?

We then saw a Palace player leave O'Brien for dead. Round Pickford, but take it too wide. So he plays it across goal. Mateta is standing unmarked but astonishes the whole stadium by missing what was surely the miss of the season.

Your "live txt" doesnt seem to be aware of any of this and numerous other attacks Palace had. So I suggest you ditch it and Youtube Everton 2 Palace 1 Highlights. You'll get a better idea of what REALLY happened. You'll even know as much as the rest of us.

What you will see is that you got a crucial fact wrong. O'Brien did not come on. He started the game and he spent the afternoon getting properly roasted. You will also see that the defender on the line clearing Mateta's chip was in fact O'Brien himself. You'll hear the commentator blurt out "How did he miss that ?" as Mateta later rolls wide of a gaping goal.

Here's what else you will see; You will see that the penalty we got out of nowhere was not as a result of "caution to the wind" attack. Tim breaks alone He is miles ahead of the kitchen sink brigade and he is the only Everton player in the box when he was brought down.

I'm happy to debate with you Conor. You put up some good stuff on here. but please... Live Txt ???? If that is what you are basing your opinion on. Words fail

Dave

This is almost an obsession with me. After years of screaming at our defenders at Goodison to push up and shorten the washing line. I have now started doing it at BM. I am staggered that you think Tarkowski will venture upfield more than Keane. I can only put it down to a case of mistaken identity. He simply will NOT come out to play. Kean on the other hand is forever roaming into the opposition box looking for goals. The three chances he had in ten minutes against Wolves were more than Tarkowski will get in a season.

I'll let you into a secret here. When I look at our center backs, I think all three of them are crap. Sure they can all put in a decent performance, but they are all so inconsistent, I believe Kean has been consistently our best defender all season. I wont be judging him on previous seasons. They're gone.

Tarkowski has been abject and the only reason I want O'Brien in the center is because he at least has the potential to improve. The other two havent.

As for confirmation bias. I think it is as plain as the nose on your face People refusing to see Tarkowski's relentless stream of errors leaves me shaking my head in disbelief. Still he does a mean last ditch tackle.. And he cant half shake his fist. Oh and lets be fair. Big Jake may turn like a barge...but he turns like an Irish barge

We will indeed have to agree to disagree on this one mate

What 'pseudonym' might this be? Get off the drugs.

And anyone from that squad can be turned over with the exception of Jordan Pickford. Tarkowski, Keane and Gueye I think are the only few left, McNiel too.

Not sure about those three chances v Wolves but I wouldn’t mind betting they were when we had a corner or a free kick and I don’t have to tell you about his defending corners and free kicks, just watch him running on the spot waiting for the corner to come in and losing his marker completely when the ball comes in then looking round bewildered about what happened.

One goal bound shot was blocked against Wolves. a few minutes later, he smashed one that any striker would be proud of into the roof of the net.. Then he was desperately unlucky to see a header come back off the post. None of those efforts came from corners.

He's generally regarded by many inside the club as the best finisher we have They didnt come to that conclusion by him hanging around his own half.

When I think of the best ten goals we have scored in recent years. I think keane would probably have scored five of them and I don't think any of them were from corners

Just off the top of my head, that great goal he scored v Palace in the 3-2 win came from a free kick or corner and Holgate did brilliantly to keep the ball in play with a great header back to Keane. Another was the last-minute goal v Spurs in a 1-1 draw.

One previous manager said he was the best finisher in the club in training; another one said Lookman, but training is an entirely different game all together. Many of us have said keep him on the bench and bring him on as a striker before adding he can't do nothing stupid while he is in the opposing team's penalty area, as opposed to when he is in ours.