I see the points of KEIOC and I am 50/50 on moving, I am just not sure we should instantly be against the move when we haven’t even seen anything about it.

How can you be against something when you do have all the facts?

Part of me says stay, keep the history, keep goodison, keep the city.

The other part says we would have bought Fernandes if we had more money from a new stadium.

So, whats it to be folks? More players and a better team of Goodison? We can’t have it all ways.

And what if when we have a new stadium someone does want to come along with millions? Is it a bad move then?

I would call on EFC to give Evertonians the facts ASAP so that -intitled to a vote or not- we can form an opinion based on what is actually on offer, rather than just based on the three words "move to kirkby".

Very well said Eileen.

Those of us who are entitled to vote shall cast our vote the way we see fit based on the proposals presented to us and after due consideration.

I have heard more than enough from this, as you rightly point out, ’self appointed’ group.

Far from trying to aid our fans in making an informed choice these people seem intent on nothing other than imposing their will on all of us, whether we agree or not. Worse still it seems they will stop at nothing to achieve this.

An embarrassment to the good name of Everton FC.

Which CCTV footage was to be shown at the meeting today then and by whom?

It was in the media that it was going to happen so it must be true!

Don’t believe all you read, especially when the BBC sports editor is employed by the organisation that is responsible for the club website and magazines.

I find the reports about showing film of Everton and Manc "fans" fighting being used to further a campaign to keep Everton out of Kirkby to be detestable.

I truly hope that KEIOC, however minor their involvement, move very swiftly to disassociate themselves from this type of campaigning which does those who are doing it no credit.

It would be nice if Toffeeweb was to offer KEIOC the platform to give us their perspective on the stadium debate.

I am particularly interested to find out how they would expect Everton to fund any rebuild or relocation within the city without a named commercial partner.

At present I want a "new" not refurbished stadium within the city boundary within my lifetime.

But if that really is not possible - why not Kirkby?

Two sides, Eileen


Don’t forget, EFC is currently a dictatorship
http://www.keioc.net/

It’s an odd one really. You’re not going to get a group campaigning to move to Kirkby so you don’t really see those who are giving it a chance represented at all.

Politics!!

Dan, the club itself will be the group campaigning for Kirby. If another group is needed, look no further than the Echo.

KEIOC seem to be required just to ensure there’s someone pointing out the other side of things.

Ste Birket, what ?other? side of things? You mean the other side that they just don?t want to go to Kirkby because, even though it?s only 4 miles away, they consider it a foreign land, as it?s not within the official city boundaries? That other side? These KEIOC people aren?t happy just to have their vote, they want yours too. I don?t see the point in them at all myself, other than to get their own way of course.

What get me is thet KEIOC are saying to the Kirkby folks, ’you don’t want a footy ground here ’cos of the violence’ but what of the people of Walton where GP already is? Or any other area that KEIOC propose? Are they quite happy for those residents to have the violence so long as Everton stay in the City?

Just a quick response to "Black Toffee" (isn?t that racist? I?m sure you won?t mind if I call myself White Toffee...): KEIOC have their own website where they drive their own impetus in the stadium debate... why on earth would we need to offer them a platform to give their perspective on the stadium debate?

We are only an Everton website. They have got their own website; we regularly link to their latest/current lead features. What more do you want?

Another extremely simplistic mail from Eileen.

Describing KEIOC’s capmpaign as an absolute disgrace and on a par with Goebells is frankly laughable and an insult to the millions who died in the war.

What is a disgrace is the Club passing round a sheet of paper with a drawing on as an update and expecting us to believe that this is all the info available after months/years of work.

I firmly believe a move out of the city will be the end of this Club as we know it and it will go the way of other clubs who have been tempted to move. We need a campaign to force the club to come clean with us - 6 months ago it was self-financing but now we are told £30m is needed but we have it!!!

Anyone remember what happened to King’s Dock for the sake of £30m that we allegedly had?

As for showing the trouble at the Man Utd game - well if I was a resident of Kirkby I would sure as hell like to know what can happen on my back door - perfectly legitimate for the Kirkby campaigners to show it (it wasn’t KEOIC who showed it)

Move over Billy and bully - put people who really care for the Club in charge and stop treating as your your personal toy - it is impossible to believe that there are no inverstors for EFC unless Billy Liar is putting unreasonable conditions over the sale - we are a much better prospect than most of the others for investment - the stumbling block is Billy Liar.

Working 24/7 - my arse.

Sorry to come back to you Michael Kenrick. My comment was in no way meant as a slight on this esteemed website. Indeed I consider Toffeeweb to be the premier site amongst Evertonians, and one which prides itself on taking an independent line in all things Everton.

It was in that context, and to widen the debate that I made my comment as this site is read by a much larger cross section of Everton supporters than other sites.

I hope that you take my point as I fully understand and appreciate yours.

As for the name BlackToffee, there has already been a useful debate on the Peoples Forum about this. I realise that the forum is independent of Toffeeweb, but you have a whitetierry, and a blue Indian on the forum.

In short, no its not racist - though I recognise that some may feel a bit sensitive aboout the issue.

I probably don’t need to say great site as always, but I will. Slowly getting use to the redesign and I appreciate the work that you all put into keeping us informed.

Mike,
’Move over Billy and bully - put people who really care for the Club in charge and stop treating as your your personal toy’
People like those who own Villa and our neighbours or the guy who’s buying
I just don’t see any multi-billionaire season ticket holders riding to our rescue somehow, or are we to become a ’franchise’ that would finish me far more than a move to Kirkby (which I don’t want) would.

KEIOC has been a joke from the start. A group of people who feel they have a right to fight and argue and manipulate every evertonian into their own trail of thought, without official plans, without evidence, without LCC sites, without financials, without a case.

Some no name MPs and ex-players. ALL of which have a 0% influence on the outcome of this saga join their witch-hunt. Not a single current squad player to back up their claim, not a single younger generation of blues in their arsenal.

Its to be expected their arguments will be once sided, showing violence between two teams (i am unsure on the date of this violence, but its 1 incident) - yet no consensus with walton residents about what its like match day - which all us game go’ers are aware of anyways.

The majority of Everton fans are intelligent people, who may panic at the lack of signings by now, but in all will make their vote count based on facts and realistic proposals and plans.

Eileen you make some great points there.
But I think John C sums it all up.
How can you capaign on something you don’t know about.
Liverpool Council have not backed EFC since the emergence of LFC so why would we expect anything different if we stay in the City.
The way I see it is that KEIOC will protest even if the fans vote is in favour of the move.

Let’s all calm down shall we.
It seems reasonable to allow if not encourage debate on the question which lacks an awful lot of information from those who have it. Therefore KEIOC have an IMPORTANT role to play in attempting to raise questions not raised elsewhere.

In the end, unless there is a SHOCK-HORROR discovery in favour or against the move which convinces everyone at the last minute, I am sure 90% of fans will have their opinion already firmly fixed one way or the other and will do as one famously quoted Tory MP did at the time of the Maastricht Treaty proposal (this quote can be read for or against) : "I will receive the documentation, I will listen to the arguments, and I will vote against the proposal."

Personally, my heart says "Never leave Goodison". I listen to my heart and search for the arguments to back it up - and they ain’t gonna come from the current EFC Board.

Signed : no right to vote.

God forbid that Mr Kenwright should ever feel the need ’to move over’but the reality of our situation is that without a new ground no investor is even vaguely interested in aquiring the Club.Until someone comes up with alternatives to Kirkby which INCLUDE THE FINANCING that IS the only show in town so please let’s move on!

Last time I looked this country was still a democracy with a general policy of freedom of speech as much as I disagree with Doddy for example I still expect him to have his say. Dictatorships are a very dangerous thing as history has shown time after time, dictatorship is a strong description for BK at EFC I’d say more of a single owner that doesn’t give a toss at it’s his. Saying KEIOC is a bad thing is equally as bad as saying Pravda get the only voice. Give both sides a chance and the people that pay the vote.

Mr T What nonesense you spout.Liverpool council dont back EFC since the emergence of LFC.What the fuck was the Kings Dock site then.Maybe Liverpool council are fed up with Billy Bullshitter and his lies. I mean to be offered the finest site in the world for a football stadium ie Liverpool waterfront for a poxy £30 million is reaaly awfull of Liverpool council isnt.
DIMWIT.

Bravo Eileen, about bleeding time someone pointed out KEIOCs demagoguery [It is a strategy of obtaining power by appealing to the gut feelings of the public, usually by powerful use of rhetoric and propaganda].

Words like "Dictatorship" and references to Joseph Goebbels are ludicrous.

Lets be clear about something. Kenwright owns the club and I have always been one of his harshest critics. But on this issue I support him entirely.

Everton is not, and never has been, a public/democratic institution. It is a private company. So all of you that are angry you don’t have a vote, why don’t you do something about it to ensure you do have a vote.

I repeat a previous article: all those that want to stay at Goodison, or "Keep Everton in Our City" - fine by me, stay, and start a new club for yourselves, in your city, just call yourselves something else, like Liverpool AFC. Funny really, last time Everton moved grounds - another club sprang up in its place!!!

As i have said befor KEIOC seem to be run by the people who own the boozers around GP. Thats the only place ive ever seen a flyer anyway. People who dont have a business directly affected by the ground dont seem to be too arsed yet because we havent seen any plans or proposals. A piss poor demo.

Mr Marsh, thank you for the constructive criticism.
Yes we where offered Kings Dock I don’t know if the £30m included the stadium build or not. But I think you should bear in mind that we wanted to develop on Stanley Park and it was turned down by the council, and guess where LFC are to build their new stadium.

I believe that it was the development agency that offered us kings dock, not LCC? that is why we would get the land cheap as it needed development.

Gregg may have been able to fund this, but don’t forget that ground wouldn’t have been ours, it would have been shared with some other body for use of concerts and the like.

I agree that KEIOC are entitled to there view, but maybe they should declare there vested interests, i.e. there local business ownership etc.

If this is going to be the standard of debate, we might as well all give up and go home.

While all this slagging off goes on and childish nonsense is peddled by some above, I have not seen one single argument in favour of the momentous and irrevocable decision to move Everton to Kirkby that holds water. Not one. It’s an article of faith for some of you.

You’re prepared to take a massive gamble.

Everyone who is having a go at KEIOC.Remember, Kenwright has used under-hand tactics before to get what he wants and the bullshitting waste of space would do it again if needs be.

I’m having a go at KEIOC they’ve delivered nothing but lies, half truths and propoganda since they started.

Even their denial to the BBC thing is half hearted. If there was no truth in it all there would be lawyers involved by now.

thers nothing brave or noble about remaining historic. we say liverpool fans thrive and live on their history yet we have many fans here willing to stay in the past regardless of the outcome to our football club.
in 1976 Kirkby was part of Liverpool and those from there are widley known to be scousers. if a new stadium in Kirkby leads to investment and £10m increase in revenue (at least) so be it. are the results that tragic?
history and tradition mean nothing in todays league and does not win us any trophies. money on the other hand does.
any true evertonian would travel down the lancs and to kirkby (a few miles away) if they loved the club as much as they claim to. ideally everton would have much more money leading to better players and improved performances on the field,bringing about the much desired european football and successful cup runs these fans keep moaning about.
i know i’d travel from anfield to see that.

First Eileen after your letter how can you call any one. To compare a football dispute to a war is both stupid an insulting to relatives who lost someone in it.I always worry when some thing seems to be too good to be true but obviously you have a private information source and have all the answers I just wish you could share them with us all as no one could back this move so enthusiastically other than a fool on all the information that is currently available now I might think you are one of Billy liars mates but I don’t think you are a fool so tell me please what is this ground going to cost and how you know the design is acceptable and of course where do we get the money from and finally on a personal note how do you feel that when we move the only thing we own is our name

KEIOC - This organisation is a joke and losing credibility by the day. The tactics they are employing are way below the belt and I suggest they should do a "U" turn straight away instead of trying to shift the blame. Is this all you have got.... shameless.

Steve Lee is right. Moving to Kirkby will be a gamble. On the other hand, staying at Goodison is a guarantee -- of no increased revenue, of increased costs of maintenance and of absolutely no chance of anyone buying the club.
And until KEOIC and LCC come up with definitive answers to the question over their proposed sites, such as how much the land will cost the club, who the major corporate sponsor will be and whether proper planning permission will be granted (all questions that have been answered, respectively, by the Kirkby proposal by nothing, Tesco and yes), anything KEOIC has to say is only so much hot air.
Would I want Everton to stay in Liverpool? Yes, but come up with something concrete to persuade me. Otherwise, Kirkby seems the best bet (there’s that gamble again) forgiving the clubthe chance to progress.

Ray Mia - I refer you today to the Derby County website which is running a handy, appetite-whetting guide to all current Premiership clubs for all its fans who are justifiably excited at the prospect of top-flight togger in 07/08. Today, on the DCFC web it’s Everton’s turn; and how do they introduce us to the Derby faithul? As the "boys in blue from across Stanley Park", that’s how. Across from what, Ray? Do you see the subtlety of this point? It’s as though the default starting point for all football references in the city of Liverpool is at Anfield. Everything else is defined, or pre-positioned by its relationship or proximity to that presumed seat of supremacy (how else, for instance, will a 10-year-old DCFC fan view us when s/he reads that type of guff?). And this is whilst we’re still situated underneath their noses. Gee, how our reputation and profile will progress in leaps and bounds by moving out of the city altogether. Perhaps, though, and I do concede it readily for the sake of measured debate, I am making too esoteric a point here (better that than resort to invective like "demagoguery" - really? - when referring to KEIOC). If the point I am making is a little wispy and nebulous for a committed pro-Kirkby-ite (which I assume you are), then fair enough. But surely it is better to have measured debate - with both sides of this increasingly divisive (and by the sounds of it, increasingly bitter) debate recognising that their is another, equally valid viewpoint - than spout the inflammatory remarks with which you end your posting. To say to those, like me, who are against Kirkby, that it’s "fine by me, stay and start a new club for yourselves" (gee, thanks for the approval and licence, Ray!) as though we’re somehow some renegade band of second-class Evertonians is a disgrace. It indicates, though, that similar to DCFC assuming the starting position for football in Liverpool is at Anfield, you regard the default position of all Evetonians in 2007 to be pro-Kirkby and anyone who doesn’t toe the line is somehow out-of-step with the ruling elite. The unity of the Evertonian fanbase is being corroded before our eyes this summer like never before (I really mean that - and the proof will be in evidence at the Wigan game) and divisive language like yours hardly helps. And it’s precisely the presumed supremacy of those like you - and EFC - that makes KEIOC all the more desperate because it knows it’s trying to push water uphill. Of all the postings on this debate during this summer, yours was the saddest to read. Great rationale, Ray.

What a waste of space TaxiClub’s post was. There we have again more proof of this KEIOC ’supremacist’ attitude with an implied protest at the Wigan game. Unless of course something else was implied? These people will all have their vote, if entitled, yet this seemingly isn’t enough. All they are doing is bringing shame and embarrassment on the club and whilst I agree there is a growing divide between the fans I suggest that it is KEIOC that have created this divide and who continue to thrive on it. I see in the Daily Post today that they name KEIOC and their spokesman very clearly as being responsible for showing clips of violence at football and suggesting ’this is what can happen’. That is dated today and is very clear. i assume if this is incorrect we can expect to see a retraction, an apology and some legal action from KEIOC/Alfie Hincks for defamation? I doubt we will though will we. Disgraceful.

Post of the day for me,taxi club blue.Well said mate.Ray Mia sounds like the typical apologist to me.

Woaaa there TaxiClubBlue.

What I love about the Internet is how people apply their own logic to comments, and end up spouting their own particular brand of drivel in response.

Inflamatory remarks? Moi? All I am doing is making a perfectly valid statement of fact. When Everton left Anfield, Liverpool was formed. Also when Everton moved to Goodison, Walton was outside of the city of Liverpool. Keep Everton in the City? hmmmm

Boo hoo, Derby County are telling their kids that Liverpool are more successful than Everton. Funny that really, because they are. Everton at Goodison will never change that situation as it simply does not allow for the club to develop in the modern game, in a modern business environment.

Don’t assume anything my friend. I am not pro Kirkby, I am in support of progress. I am not myopic. I do not nail my views to the mast of public opinion on a whim. Let me be clear, so you do not misinterpret my words, or apply your own logic to make your own point in precisely the fashion I have described. You are indeed proving my point. Your posting is the very definition of demagoguery.

You want to stay at Goodison? or do you want to stay in Liverpool? I don’t think that the former is wise nor beneficial for the future of Everton FC. Until an alternative is found to Kirkby, then I would consider it, not dismiss it out of hand because we need to KEIOC.

I am also very much against developing the present footprint, for all the reasons we are all familiar with re: running a team/stadium at the same time as developing it, all in the shadow of the team soon to be ON Stanley Park.

Presumed supremacy you say? Interesting. I am looking at reality, something that most in the anti-Kirkby lobby [may I also be presumptious enough to assume your position on the issue?] do not seem to accept.

Everton is a privately owned club. The decisions are not open to all, and I do not accept that the present day decision makers would rush into an emotive position. Move or stay. I think the answer is to move. I also think that where we move to needs to be resolved, and quickly, as the issue has dragged on for so long. I am firmly of the mind that a move within Merseyside will happen, and that its location within the city limits as a cast iron REQUIREMENT is an absurdity based on a poor understanding of the current state of the club.

Are you scared of a split? Do you think EFC is close to making a far out move like MKDons?

You want measured debate? And you think that KEIOC has done so? I think Eileen’s point is that they are using tactics - ANY WAY THEY CAN, to KEIOC. Nothing measured there.

I don’t need to presume, or assume. I can’t and so won’t. KEIOC have used every trick in the book to curry public favour to their cause. It is easy taking a swipe at the club, I know, I have. It is far harder looking at how the club is to compete against Liverpool/Man Utd/Chelsea etc with an old stadium, in a sub standard location.

Now imagine if you have a solution, one you are investigating, but there is an efficient lobby prepared to use any tactic to force public opinion against you.

Now TaxiClubBlue - that is truly sad. Not that you would think I’m treating you like a second class fan, bucking against the ruling elite. Who on earth brought class warfare into the debate? You did. Methinks you’re trying to build up a nice little victim complex here.

Surely you see the irony of what History has already proven? I repeat what we all know, that when Everton moved from Anfield, Liverpool appeared.

The way KEIOC are carrying on, makes me believe that if EFC do move out of the city, they would not support the club anymore. Which is even sadder than your poorly aimed response at me.

I get the feeling that even if Everton moved to another footprint, there would be a victimised organisation crying foul once more.

I am not being bitter, I am trying to be practical. That you feel this is out of line is your right. But my other point still stands, if you are so angry about not moving to Kirkby, make sure you have the right to do something about it and get yourself a vote and use it the way you see fit. And that, my friend, IS great rationale.

KEIOC have completely refuted these allegations, so what on earth is this thread about....? other than an attempt to berate fellow Evertonians who’s only crime is to have the audacity to question the proposed move, and present the arguments against. If the only points to be made by the so called pro-kirkby brigade is this defamation of Evertonian’s character, it demonstrates much regarding this group’s grip on the real issues.

This response is specifically for Roy Coyne. My original post was NOT about the value, advisability or otherwise of a move to Kirkby. That is a separate issue. My original post was about taking exception to a self appointed organization using the possibility of ’football violence’ at Everton home games as a reason for Kirkby residents to reject the possibility of our new Stadium being built there. Not only did I find this objectionable and insulting I also found it to be highly inaccurate as such problems are exceedingly rare at Goodison. Not only is that undemocratic and propogandistic in itself, but (I wonder) would KEIOC be giving the same doomsday warnings to the residents of any other area WITHIN LIVERPOOL if it was proposed to build a Stadium there? No they would not and that is why I likened their tactics to Goebbels whose own propaganda was also naive and transparent.

For Tom Hughes in relation to his post above.

Read icLiverpool. They showed the video to Kirkby residents! It is KEIOC who berate fellow Evertonians by warning Kirkby residents of the perils of having them (us!) in their midst. I can honestly say that in nearly 55 years of watching Everton,violence and hooliganism has never been a concern for me at Goodison (it has in other places) So what gives KEIOC the right to tell Kirkby residents it should be a concern for them? No right at all and that is what is wrong with this group.

Tom, you are as transparent and basic as the rest of them, nobody is buying this rubbish so quit wasting your time! Your current recruits will be your only recruits because everyone now sees what KEIOC are really like. They don’t have Everton’s best interests at heart, or Kirkby residents for that matter, only their own agenda.

Eileen, I actually spoke to the lad who has supposedly done this. He denies it emphatically. NO resident has come forward to say they have been shown videos, so where has this come from? I do not have to read the echo who incidentally did not witness said event either, I prefer the horses mouth. If, in the meantime a witness does come forward and it is proven (which I doubt since the original instigators have backstepped in their assertions)then I agree the action of this individual is reprehensible. As far as being self-appointed...... aren’t we all? What does that mean?

Jonesy,
What time am I waisting? You’re the one with loads of aimless postings, consistently saying nothing of any substance but berating fellow Evertonians at every opportunity. I am transparent I agree, I have absolutely no hidden agenda nor ulterior motives..... meanwhile can you say the same about Everton or this whole Kirkby fiasco? Can you actually tell us anything about it? Who are my recruits? What’s that nonsense about? Honestly makes Zero sense to me, and seeing as your now attacking me you would think it would...... Is Jones your nom de plume? Your real name isn’t Burns by any chance?

how the thell any one can give grief to lads who are prepared to stand up and be counted in the fight to stay in OUR CITY is beyond me , for what it’s worth i’m right behind the KEIOC and good luck to them, as for blues who want to go to kirkby yers baffle me yer really do. * shakes head.

Tom, self-appointing oneself is fine. Once a ’group’ self-appoints it gives the individual anonymity and that is where it gets dodgy and allows this kind of thing to happen without responsibility being applied or accepted. It is a matter of serious disappointment to me that this has (allegedly?) happened as I have always accepted that nomatter how much I may have differed from KEIOC in their views, they nevertheless offered a perfectly legitimate alternative that ensured consideration and could only assure that as far as is possible the best outcome for all was all the more likely. The (alleged?) fact that KEIOC have accused Evertonians of not being worthy of a Stadium in Kirkby because of the problems this could cause in terms of hooliganism is, however, beyond the pale and has destroyed my confidence in their democratic intent. We share much in common ,Tom,in that we both want what is best for the Club that is a fundamental part of our lives.I will join with you if the view of Evertonians is against the move to Kirkby because I am a democrat and I believe the will of the majority should be supported. But let us keep it clean and free of the sort of propagfanda we have (allegedly!) seen today.

I believe the allegation was initially aimed at an individual, as he was indeed named. This individual’s alleged remark was then by association attributed to an entire group as their supposed policy or strategy by the press. So, I can’t see any benefits or anonymity to be gained in forming a small campaign group. Quite the opposite, these people are putting their reputations both collective and individual on the line simply for stating their opinion and asking questions all Evertonians should want answered.

Eileen just to be clear,I do not like any one bringing our fans down be it kopites or KEIOC if they did this it is scandalous and puts them on a par with Kenwright I think the issue of a move should have been handled better and also how can fans that go every game but cannot afford a season ticket not be allowed a say there are two students by me who go home and away and have done for a number of years but because of finance cant vote

Steve Green says staying at Goodison "is a guarantee -- of no increased revenue, of increased costs of maintenance and of absolutely no chance of anyone buying the club."

Steve, why? Why will no one buy the club? Why will they be more likely to buy it in Kirkby? Why doen’t the club have a chance of moving on at Goodison? I haven’t heard one argument that even begins to convince me of any of this.

It’s that same old article of faith and I’m convinced you’re wrong. If you’re wrong, as I think you are, there’s no going back.

Please be reminded that this group KEIOC are all volunteers,, and do this because they are Everton FANS, Shouldn’t we be asking our so called Chairman, and Club why they are not doing the work of KEIOC.

Its a joke !!

We need to be attacking the Club and not the Group KEIOC.

I have to agree with Ian R, ON HIS COMMENTS REGARDING EFC and the board.

I mean am being told that they no longer meet forboard meetings at the club, in fact they have there board meetings in London.

That Explains Everything.

Steve Lee:
Any investor worth his salt will not want to spend money on an acquisition when he doesn’t have to. A new stadium, paid for primarily by Tesco and wholly owned by Everton (if that actually becomes the case) would be a far more attractive proposition than aging Goodison, which will need massive upgrades somewhere down the road and has no chance at improving its deplorable corporate facilities. And like it or not, these days corporate facilities are a big draw for investors, as it’s one of the quickest ways to make a return on that investment.
Unless one of his hits the world’s biggest lottery or Lord Grantchester gets his finger out, anyone buying Everton won’t be doing it out of any blue-tinted love for the club, but as a way to make money. And if all that person has to worry about is assuming the team’s debts and payroll and doesn’t have to worry about splashing 200 million quid for a new stadium in the not-too-distant future, then the potential to make a better return on any investment is massively increased.
Taking the emotive component out of this, try likening it to someone looking at buying a Jaguar -- with a choice between a 2008 model and a 1988 model. The latter may be cheaper in the short term, but in the long run will cost the buyer a lot more to operate. Plus the new one’s a lot shinier and has all the state-of-the art amenities.

It is really worrying when 1100 membersof public walk through the door at the Kirkby Suite of were there carrying out a public Consultation on the Proposed new Staduim, and over 800 don’t want it.

I hope your reading this Ian Ross and Kenwright !!!!

To Roy Coyne,

I entirely agree with you Roy that the EFC proposals concerning the vote are unfair and unacceptable and I have already posted an article (about 10 days ago) offering what I feel to be a fairer option. But that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about one group of Evertonians suggesting to the residents of Kirkby that Evertonians in general are not worthy of a Stadium in their community because of the prospect of hooliganism and violence. Wherever we end up watching our team for the next 50/100 years I will never accept that my brother and sister Evertonians are an habitual and persistent threat to anybody.It has never been that way in my 50-odd years of watching and supporting our team and I have no reason to believe it is going to start now.

getyourfacts rightEilleen. I amthe lady in the picture.Yes there were a lot of angry people there because the residens of the affected estate were meant to have been informed by letter. only a handfull of residents got the letters, this left one lady to knock on residents doors to inform them of the meeting. by the way the gentleman you refered to is the tesco adviser.By theway i would liketo thank KEOC for the help and information they have supplied kirkby residents.We have invited EFC (the peoples club) on several occasions to meet us without responce.

Hi Eilleen, it`s that lady again. Can I just say i am an Evertonion have been all my life. It is not about Evertonians being hooligans and causing anti-social behaviour, it is about the away "fans" it brings. So please stop trying to stir things up.