The Mail Bag
Ground (Again!)
Comments (36)
Against my better judgement, I'm getting involved in this whole Ground thing. I'm putting forward my experience as a Warrington Wolves RL fan because I think it might help reduce, by maybe ten percent, the total rubbish which is repeatedly churned out on this issue.
We were in an old knackered ground with lots of history, but absolutely nothing else to recommend it. We then moved to a new, Tesco-funded, stadium (no idea of the precise funding arrangements) with a capacity of double our average crowd.
The new stadium was much more pleasant to be in, and the average attendance immediately went up by more than 50%. Now, there's talk of increasing the capacity further, and building extra hospitality boxes to meet demand. Apparently nobody has stopped coming to games because of the retail park asssociations or the fact that they have to travel a different route and park in different places. All-round, it's been a great success.
Now, I fully accept that RL in Warrington is not the same as Premier League football in Liverpool. What I am saying is that anyone who assumes that people will automatically stop going to games in Kirkby, that extra capacity is necessarily needless, or that anything that Tescos do is a bad thing, is talking complete bollocks. I've just demonstrated the opposite.
There are, I'm sure, lots of other agruments on either side that can legitimately be made. I'll leave you all to sort those out, and continue to watch these posts with interest.
Bill Latimer, Posted 28/06/2007 at 13:40:14
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History, the key word in all of this. A word Evertonians are all too familiar with, and one in which we all bask. OK we have a rich one, we have one that we all love to tell everyone about and make a song & dance about but this is the 21st century and we have to move forward in order to survive.
I love Goodison as much as the next man, and as a life-long supporter would be sad to see us move from there, and sad to see us move out of the city. But to suggest that we’re ’handing the city over’ to the red side is nothing short of ridiculous.
We’ll still be Everton, we’ll never be anything else and moving to a modern state of the art stadium wherever it is is the main concern for moving the club forward.
I can’t help feeling that all the people clamouring for us to stay at Goodison are letting their hearts rule their heads, and ignoring the bigger picture.
Lookat other clubs, Boro, Sunderland to name 2, both of them have moved thmeselves on to another level. Boro have been in major finals, attracted better players and Sunderland are now moving in the right direction as well.
Bill raises some good points and I believe important ones - lessons learned people, lessons learned.
I love Goodison as much as the next man, and as a life-long supporter would be sad to see us move from there, and sad to see us move out of the city. But to suggest that we’re ’handing the city over’ to the red side is nothing short of ridiculous.
We’ll still be Everton, we’ll never be anything else and moving to a modern state of the art stadium wherever it is is the main concern for moving the club forward.
I can’t help feeling that all the people clamouring for us to stay at Goodison are letting their hearts rule their heads, and ignoring the bigger picture.
Lookat other clubs, Boro, Sunderland to name 2, both of them have moved thmeselves on to another level. Boro have been in major finals, attracted better players and Sunderland are now moving in the right direction as well.
Bill raises some good points and I believe important ones - lessons learned people, lessons learned.
My only problem, other than lack of info, is the fact that we have to move as far as kirkby to build a new ground. Surely, surely to God there are other options closer to home (by home I mean Goodison Park).
Some things are easily avoided.
Good point, well fuckin’ made Sir. I couldn’t agree more....
A ’club’ is made up of the people that go and the support they generate, not just the players and the backroom staff - we need to move forward and now is the time to do so.
Up the Blues.......
A ’club’ is made up of the people that go and the support they generate, not just the players and the backroom staff - we need to move forward and now is the time to do so.
Up the Blues.......
Sorry to agree with Tom Hughes’ ironic reply to Bill’s original post, but let’s keep to "parallels" which are actually parallel.
The Warrington case seems to fall well short of this category on several counts.
And please stop disparaging each others’ comments with sweeping statements like "handing the city over.... is nothing short of ridiculous" when clearly it IS a difficult point to address.
And in further reply to Bluenose, I rue the day (if it hasn’t already come) when the heart does not rule the head in football.
Vive le romantisme, especially for footy. I don’t want to be a "prawn sandwich supporter".
The Warrington case seems to fall well short of this category on several counts.
And please stop disparaging each others’ comments with sweeping statements like "handing the city over.... is nothing short of ridiculous" when clearly it IS a difficult point to address.
And in further reply to Bluenose, I rue the day (if it hasn’t already come) when the heart does not rule the head in football.
Vive le romantisme, especially for footy. I don’t want to be a "prawn sandwich supporter".
Bluenose. How exactly have Sunderland moved to another level?
How long have they had their new stadium? How long have they been in the prem since moving into said new stadium?
When Keane took over they where rock bottom of the championship.
Keane has got them playing football again, that is why they have been promoted, it has nothing to do with the stadium just bloody good football management.
How long have they had their new stadium? How long have they been in the prem since moving into said new stadium?
When Keane took over they where rock bottom of the championship.
Keane has got them playing football again, that is why they have been promoted, it has nothing to do with the stadium just bloody good football management.
How right is Andy Callan.Any club is made up of the people who play for it and the supporters who follow them.Bricks and mortar are an irrelevance.I,for one,would still watch every game if they played at Warrington RL-or even Analfield!
Warrington Wolves RL loads of trophys and success
Sorry,I can’t get starry-eyed over Goodison Park.Whatever the club may have won there in the distant past,it’s bugger all in my adult life and whether we go to Kirkby or Cronton bothers me not one little bit.A change of scene may well bring a change of fortune-who knows!
Good to see a few of the silent majority fighting back!Too many Evertonians are in love with the past-’if youse knows yer ’istry’ and all that twaddle.Let’s get out of the shit’ole as fast as we can and concentrate on bloody winning something.Please!
You can’t compare Warrington Wolves with Everton!
I bet the only reason the attendaces have increased is through the start up of Super League and Sky Sports coverage.
As for staying at Goodison and redeveloping thats got to be a no go. We’re not gonna be able to afford that on our own. Even if we were granted permission we’d have to do it in stages over x number of years. Which means shit attendances shit atmosphere and after no one wanting to join in the meantime shit team.
We’ve got to find pastures new, personally i hope its somewhere closer to home and built like proper stadium to fully maximise to atmosphere that us blueboys generate.
I bet the only reason the attendaces have increased is through the start up of Super League and Sky Sports coverage.
As for staying at Goodison and redeveloping thats got to be a no go. We’re not gonna be able to afford that on our own. Even if we were granted permission we’d have to do it in stages over x number of years. Which means shit attendances shit atmosphere and after no one wanting to join in the meantime shit team.
We’ve got to find pastures new, personally i hope its somewhere closer to home and built like proper stadium to fully maximise to atmosphere that us blueboys generate.
John, could you tell me how moving to a new stadium will help us win things? Surely the money we will have to stump up for the stadium (we are not getting it for free) could be spent on players to improve the squad. Moyes doesn’t get enough money as it is.
That’s an easy one,Stu!As I see it the cost to the club for the Tesco option has been set at £30M-end of.Trying to develope any other site might well be 7 or 8 times that amount-money that’s far better spent on getting a winning side together.
If we stay at Goodison we’re NEVER gonna win much. We will get less and less competitive each year.
I’m not really for the Kirkby move and think it could go either way, However i honestly believe we need to move and soon.
I think the main reason Everton are looking so closely at Kirkby is its getting the majority of funding from other areas i.e. Tesco, With this being the case the club may feel we can still be competitive in the transfer market, or at least as much as we are now!
I’m not really for the Kirkby move and think it could go either way, However i honestly believe we need to move and soon.
I think the main reason Everton are looking so closely at Kirkby is its getting the majority of funding from other areas i.e. Tesco, With this being the case the club may feel we can still be competitive in the transfer market, or at least as much as we are now!
New Stadium - shed loads of money
Squad - Bare Bones
Information - Lacking
Prediction - Screwed.
Squad - Bare Bones
Information - Lacking
Prediction - Screwed.
John, why can’t we stay at goodison and use that money on the team and wait until a better option comes to us rather than being railroaded into this move by a couple of liers who provide very little of the real truth.
Who truly stands to gain from the new ground?
My guess is Tesco’s, Bill Kenwright and Wyness will be raking in money from this move. Will the club see it? Doubtful.
Will the fans benefit? Hardly as prices are bound to be jacked up to make the move worthwhile.
Will the team benefit? Not if we can’t afford to buy players.
All in all I reckon it’s only the big boys and the shareholders who will see any money out of this.
My guess is Tesco’s, Bill Kenwright and Wyness will be raking in money from this move. Will the club see it? Doubtful.
Will the fans benefit? Hardly as prices are bound to be jacked up to make the move worthwhile.
Will the team benefit? Not if we can’t afford to buy players.
All in all I reckon it’s only the big boys and the shareholders who will see any money out of this.
Tom and Steve back again churning out the same old meaningless soundbites. I don’t mind listening to any reasonable, factual, argument but all this ’leving the City to Liverpool to exploit to the full’ is a load of abstract bollocks. You have no tone scrap of evidence to suggest this is the case and more over, as I have mentioned before, if we were having a different debate you would likely say that most Liverpool supporters are ’Norwegians’ or ’wools’!! I suppose in fairness to Steve he does say ’my guess is’ before spouting all his usual twaddle. Lets try dealing in FACTS boys instead of scaremongering. When you do that, at this point, your case if wafer thin.
I don’t really wanna go to Kirby, we like to have a drink in town then get a cab up to goodison.( like thousands of others ).But financially i think Kirby will be our only option ! By the way the cologne ground that i believe we will base ours on looks very impressive inside, high stands but close to the pich.
David, I’m not scaremongering, and neither is Tom or my fellow comprade Mr Lynch.
Our opinion is our opinion, just because it doesn’t match yours don’t jump down our throats.
Your not very good at this debate thing are you?
Your post shows us all your same twaddle as well, in one post this time well done David.
Our opinion is our opinion, just because it doesn’t match yours don’t jump down our throats.
Your not very good at this debate thing are you?
Your post shows us all your same twaddle as well, in one post this time well done David.
Great post Steve people appear to think moving to Kirby some how makes our team better
Cheers Roy,
At the moment the only benefit I can see is that we will get clubcard points everytime we buy a ticket.
At the moment the only benefit I can see is that we will get clubcard points everytime we buy a ticket.
We WILL move to Kirkby it’s all we can afford..... unless we sell up to the U.S.A. Kirkby WILL be the only affordable option .We could play at analfield for a season while goodison got sorted but again it would be to expensive.Unfortunatley it’s Kirkby here we come !
Run out of comics Jonesy.
This is not Melchester Rovers mate, this is the real world.
This is not Melchester Rovers mate, this is the real world.
John Randle are you friends with Doddy and BK? I have to ask as you state that £30m is the total for the club to pay for the new stadium, can you let me and everyone else know exactly where you read that or who told you as last I heard was the £30m or so has been "suggested" was the payment to secure the site. At which point I also ask where do Tesco say they will fund the entire lot of the remainder? Will we not just be tenants or stuck with a reverse mortgage, the exact same thing BK had the Liverpool Echo demonise Paul Gregg about?
If the club is blowing all it’s cash on a short term (as correctly stated in another mailbag or viewpoint 25yr stadia) then how will that guarantee the club’s status in the league, shit football through too small a squad equals shit table standing. The new Sky money is for the next few years last time I heard so surely there will be money coming through the door to look at alternatives whilst we get it right on the pitch.
One more thing sticking in my throat is the thought that the RS stadium should upset me, in all the years going to the match and there have been many I’ve not bothered looking at it or paying it any attention and I’m not about to no matter where it is.
If the club is blowing all it’s cash on a short term (as correctly stated in another mailbag or viewpoint 25yr stadia) then how will that guarantee the club’s status in the league, shit football through too small a squad equals shit table standing. The new Sky money is for the next few years last time I heard so surely there will be money coming through the door to look at alternatives whilst we get it right on the pitch.
One more thing sticking in my throat is the thought that the RS stadium should upset me, in all the years going to the match and there have been many I’ve not bothered looking at it or paying it any attention and I’m not about to no matter where it is.
Back to the Warrington argument. I live there and yes there was an upsurge in support when the Wolves moved but they weren’t competing against another top flight team in the same town. Besides, they’re slap bang in the town still moving less than a mile, so old habits could persist.
If we move to Kirkby, I’m sure we’ll UP the support by 5 - 10,000 initially but the new plastic fans will probably only stay with us as long as we’re successful.
I fear for the future. I believe our support WILL erode over many generations. I have a red father yet chose the blues, but I only chose them because they were a Liverpool-based team and that’s where I was born. In these days of branding / marketing, I doubt whether a youngster such a I was all those years ago would choose an Everton team from Kirkby - even if it is only a couple of miles outside the city.
It’s very dangerous to fly in the face of tradition.
By the way, for those of you who might say I’m a dinosaur, I’m NOT averse to a move away from GP.
If we move to Kirkby, I’m sure we’ll UP the support by 5 - 10,000 initially but the new plastic fans will probably only stay with us as long as we’re successful.
I fear for the future. I believe our support WILL erode over many generations. I have a red father yet chose the blues, but I only chose them because they were a Liverpool-based team and that’s where I was born. In these days of branding / marketing, I doubt whether a youngster such a I was all those years ago would choose an Everton team from Kirkby - even if it is only a couple of miles outside the city.
It’s very dangerous to fly in the face of tradition.
By the way, for those of you who might say I’m a dinosaur, I’m NOT averse to a move away from GP.
Reading most of these posts it looks like (having shit themselves up the wall and lost all credibility) KEIOC are moving in here!
Eileen, being a woollyback, I don’t actually know what you’re talking about - although I obviously know what KEIOC means!
I expressed a personal opinion.
I expressed a personal opinion.
What new stadia often do is bring back lapsed support to a club - fans who stopped going because it was too uncomfortable or too frustrating or even too unsafe. Fans who stay away but keep an emotional link, then see some reinvestment and they are drawn back to the club. Many clubs experienced this resurgence - at first. What many supporters of our move seem to forget is that we are not just building a new stadium. We are moving away and building a new stadium. The lower leagues are littered with former top flight clubs who have made poor business decisions.
So that’s that,then.The vast majority of Mailbaggers wish to stay and rot at Goodison because it’s our spiritual as well as actual home.All I can say .it’s a fucking good job they don’t run the Club-it would go bankrupt within a six month!
Staying at Goodison does what exactly in a positive, footballing, or business sense?
History is history, it’ll still be there - I live in London nowadays and I speak to loads of supporters of London clubs, and their view of Everton supporters is that we all live off the past and nothing more. To be honest, Everton fans are something of a joke to supporters of other clubs in that regard.
Something to bare in mind when thinking about moving forward perhaps.
Shoot me down in flames if you like, but it’s a fact whether you choose to ignore it is your business.
History is history, it’ll still be there - I live in London nowadays and I speak to loads of supporters of London clubs, and their view of Everton supporters is that we all live off the past and nothing more. To be honest, Everton fans are something of a joke to supporters of other clubs in that regard.
Something to bare in mind when thinking about moving forward perhaps.
Shoot me down in flames if you like, but it’s a fact whether you choose to ignore it is your business.
Bluenose, "Evertonians are a joke" I’ve worked all over the world, and still work away with fans of many other teams........ sorry, I’ve never heard that descriptor, anywhere!!
Well rather than get into an argument about it which I’m sure you’ll agree isn’t the point of this, lets just agree to disagree.
I didn’t actually say ’Evertonians are a joke’ as you put it, I did however suggest that Everton fans are seen by other clubs fans, to dine out on past glories, not something I see you disagreeing with Tom.
I didn’t actually say ’Evertonians are a joke’ as you put it, I did however suggest that Everton fans are seen by other clubs fans, to dine out on past glories, not something I see you disagreeing with Tom.
Most clubs fans, bar say 4 clubs do the same in that respect..... what’s it got to do with either redeveloping GP or going to Kirkby. Is there no value in our history? Has GP got any good points in your view?
Which clowns think the modern stadia, costing around £150-£300 million are only built to last 25 years, fuck me my 3 bed semi has been up for 30yrs now and is in cracking nick, can’t have cost more than £70 grand to build (inflation considered)
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1 Posted 28/06/2007 at 14:28:54
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