I kind of agree, although to be honest I think it might already be too late come January as he can sign pre-contract forms with an overseas club then.

I'd love to keep him but it's pretty obvious he's not going to sign without a Rooney-esque increase which we won't be offering, so I think we should try and get shut of him and Bily too in the window with Donovan in on a loan/option to purchase and ideally a left-sided winger on the cheap or another loan.

Slightly off the subject, but I see Abramovich is calling for a wage cap, which is quite an irony given the fact that it was the dodgy Russian that started the explosion in wages, and has brought us to this sorry state.

I am beginning to lean towards getting rid of footballers, that ask for wages that they know the club cannot afford knowing that it will put the club in financial difficulties.

There is a bigger opportunity this year than any other I can remember to get into the Champions League. Liverpool in turmoil with predators all around their best players. Spurs not yet attuned to playing in Europe then winning on a Saturday. Man Unt, Arsenal, Man City all inconsistent at this time. I say keep Pienaar and see what happens. I know we usually have to sell our players to buy others but I think there will be less and less transfer fees and more and more fixed term contracts. I would love peanuts to stay. We should be grateful we got him for a song and pay him way less than he could get elsewhere so there is an upside to his situation. If by keeping him we made it to the CL we might be able to keep him. The lad is pure class, the movement and use of the body to protect the ball amongst the best I've ever seen in a blue shirt.

I don't agree that 1m is better than nowt. We'd effectively be losing a player, and gaining that plus his wage savings (less any ludicrous "loyalty bonus" we paid him if he doesn't demand to go in Jan).

With the prize money on offer, if his contribution meant 1-2 places in the league, then it's worth keeping. If that meant Europe he might even stay on, depending on who's after him.

Yes the money they're on is shocking, but we're stuck with it. Only if football's income is radically altered to the detriment of clubs will the situation change. Most clubs are now wholly or mainly owned by individuals or a select group. Therefore if the clubs were making silly money, it wouldn't necessarily be staying in the game either.

The fact that Everton needs new ownership to even live with the 2nd tier in the Premier League is lost on a number of fans. Even Bill has admitted long ago it's too big for him. Every season other teams overtake us off the field finance-wise. It's only a matter of time before that translates to final league placings. Then eventually maybe we'll be sold and the whole sorry cycle begins again, with our stock lower than at any point in our history.

I think Moyes and Pienaar should gang up and bully 100M investment from the Everton board.

We should have sold him in the summer rather than let this happen.

Really poor business management NOT to capitalise on the player if it becomes obvious he will leave. Even more so given our well known financial limitations. Gosling last summer, now Pienaar? How much for both? £8 - 10 million? Yeah, pin money which we can well afford to do without. I wouldn't last the day if I lost my company that much money.

I can understand why David Moyes is putting the, ?He only cost £2 million?, spin on the situation. However he knows that this is a complete nonsense. It would be a bit like saying, ?I only paid £640,000 for my house ten years ago, so if I get £650,000 I am making a profit.? The fact that in order to move you would now need to pay £1.2 million for a similar house is not irrelevant.

This sort of hard commercial reality seems lacking at Goodison at times (someone mentioned the ?Gosling? word ? don?t get me started). How much would a replacement cost in comparison with the extra £10,000 or whatever he wants per week? And if he then wants to leave, we would get a transfer fee, owing to his longer contract.

I suppose they might be thinking that if they give him a raise, then other players will become unhappy and insist on more for themselves, leading to a general wage escalation. But it does seem counterintuitive to me that you would let a £5-6 million player walk out the door for rock all.

We need to re-sign him.... simple as. Moyes's principles on these issues might be wholly admirable to some, but to me it's naive. We've broken any wage structure which might have been in place with Arteta's wages and Heitinga's too probably. Once you let the wage genie out the bottle you can't put it back.

Pienaar is one of the best players to play in an Everton shirt in the last 20 years. I would hate to see his talent being used elsewhere. Get him signed, Moyes!

Moyes and the board obviously don't think he is worth what he is asking. It's a simple concept.

Also all this talk about losing money on him... who came in for him in the summer? It's all well and good saying we should have sold him... to whom? And for how much?

If we re-sign him this summer, we will have no sell-on fee, as this will be his last "big" contact, as he is 28 and nowhere near as good as some Evertonians think he is. If Bily had put in the amount of poor passes he did on Saturday, he would getting a ribbing on here... hang on ? he is, even though he probably had a better game than Pienaar.

It's a calculated gamble, obviously. Moyes is hoping that we can somehow get our way into the top 4 this year (or failing that the Europa League), to persuade Pienaar to sign a new contract. We've got much more chance of a good finish with Pienaar in the side than without him, therefore we need to run the risk of letting him leave for free.

If we're down in the lower half in January, it would probably make sense to sell him since there would be little chance of him re-signing. Otherwise, I agree with Moyes that at this stage it's worth running the risk of him leaving for free.

(Plus of course there are other factors that might persuade him to sign a new deal too. He might have a bad season, meaning no-one else is offering him a better deal. He might pick up a serious injury, likewise. Or we might get new owners/investment, raising our ambitions and ability to offer higher wages.)

Maybe Moyes is seeing something in Gueye that makes him think if Pienaar moves on, he could step up to plate meaning no financial investment and less wages. Should Pienaar stay, we would then have two players who can fight for the place.

I don't agree with most of the comments on this thread; while I'll be gutted if Pienaar leaves us for free, I'll be more relieved than if the club caves and gives him the wage / contract length he's playing hard-ball for.

I love his work-rate, his movement and his preference for playing the ball on the floor but his skill level is nowhere close to someone like Arteta's. If you watch his games closely, about 50% of what he tries fails to come off. That's not a criticism as I would love more of our players to do the same ? and as I said, Pienaar never shows less than 100% commitment. But he's 28 and already heavily strapped up for most games. How long will this "commitment" last if he gets a lengthy contract? Does he have enough skill / vision to make up for a less physical game? I'm not so sure he does.

Do I want him to stay? Of course I do. But do I want his stance to be a green light for other players to begin naming their own prices and contract terms? No, I think that's far more dangerous.

I believe that the reason Pienaar was able to resurrect his career with us has more to do with Everton's tactics than anything else. A hard-working player with a decent amount of footballing ability playing in front of a hard-working left-back who also has a decent footballing brain has suited both Pienaar and Everton.

Moyes is no idiot. If he thought he was worth it (a la Arteta and Heitinga), he would have already had his contract. After seeing the improvement in Osman (albeit in only a couple of games) while playing in front of Baines, I'm not convinced he's as irreplaceable as most seem to think he is. I don't know what he's asking for, but 9 goals and 17 assists in his entire Premier League career hardly screams irreplaceable for an attacking midfielder to me.

And before anyone thinks we'd have got anything close to a tempting offer for Pienaar in the summer, think again. The only reason Newcastle took a punt on Goslng was that his relatively low wage demands and age (compared to Pienaar's) were worth the risk. With Pienaar's wage demands and age, no club would have offered us more than a couple of million knowing that they could get him for free 9 months later. And with no replacement lined up, Moyes has preferred to forgo this relative loose change in favour of using the time to scout / train (Gueye?) an adequate replacement.

As someone above me said, Pienaar may help move us up a place or two in the league this term, which would more than make up for the loss of transfer fee. Moyes sold both Gravesen and Neill who both had short contracts so I'm sure if someone was willing to pay for him, he'd have got rid of Pienaar too.

So thanks for your hard work Pienaar, and I wish you well in the future. If you decide to stay, great. But I won't be as distraught as some above me if you leave.

Two questions:

How much of a fee would we be looking at if we sold Pienaar in January?

And how much of that fee would go towards new signings (either on contract or on loan) in the January transfer window?

Get rid of this mediocre little mercenary, his arrogance and attitude sickens me. I certainly won't be cheering him when he returns to Goodison playing for another side.

Tim Cahill is twice the player he is, but would he ever dream of using Pienaar's negotiating tactics? I actually hope he DOES go to Liverpool, he'd fit in there. He'll disappear into the reserves but, since money is all that matters to he him, he won't be bothered.

Pienaar needs to sort himself out. He looked average in the World Cup and hasn't exactly been as good as he thinks he is so far this season... and who exactly is interested in him? In fact, he got injured and we won two games so he really should jump off that high horse of his and get real before he throws his career away by going somewhere else where he isn't guaranteed a regular place in the team.

I think he is a good player and one we'd find hard to replace, most notably because we have no other midfielders with pace to play out wide, other than maybe the untried Guaye. However, in my opinion, his end product, final pass and goals tally are not good enough to be at one of the top clubs he craves.

I think Pienaar is a useful squad player and has given us good service over the past few seasons. However, I have become concerned in recent months with the amount of times he has left Baines exposed down our left side... Is it a co-incidence that we have not conceeded during the three recent games that he has been injured? The recent Spurs game a perfect example???

I think that Pienaar brings more to our game than some people think. His link-up play with Baines is terrific and you only have to see how the likes of Hibbert suffers with only Osman in front of him offering zero protection to realise that fullbacks need the help and workrate that Pienaar gives, as well as covering for Baines when he goes forward.

No-one on here knows exactly how much Pienaar is asking for but if it's similar to Arteta I'd pay it. If we DO get a fee for him, that fee will disappear into the coffers and will not be re-invested in players. How much would it cost to get a replacement?

Furthermore, I don't buy into this "we lose games when he plays" sort of crap that some people on here quote, he's one of our best players and we should do all we can to keep him. He has played as well as Arteta this season and, if Heitinga is worth his wages, Pienaar is worth more.

I think we may be too harsh on Pienaar... a bit like the talk about Rooney. This may not be the right thread for this topic but I believe it's time someone defended Wayne Rooney a bit. Since he was formerly an Evertonian, let's give him a fair go.

I can understand why Rooney has difficulty being 100% loyal. There's too much temptation around him. If all the EPL is knocking on your door and offering you massive amounts of money, wouldn't you be tempted to at least consider it?

Pienaar, too, is very attractive. We can't fault him for at least entertaining other options. But full credit to him, he is still playing (when on the pitch) with his heart in the right place even if he wants to let his contract quietly end. In my mind, he's not playing with one foot already over the fence, ready to bolt.

In contrast, no one is tempting Tim Cahill away. No disrespect, Evertonians, please do not clobber me. All I'm saying is, no-one is tempting him away from Everton so it is easier for Timmy to be happily signed with the Blues.

On the other hand, I know that if Tim wishes to sound the other teams out, all he has to do is call his agent. He hasn't and will not. In this sense he is very loyal. But as far as temptation goes, who among us will not want a better job offer, or better opportunity?

Just saying that Pienaar (and Rooney) are not bad men, just practical... I think.

Full credit should be given to Pienaar because he's playing with his heart in the right place? The very least he should be doing, like all the players is pulling his tripe out each week. Each one of them are being paid a fortune each week to play and while they can't be great every game the least thing we can expect from them is 100% effort.

As for Rooney, banging slappers for cash while his wife is at home with their baby is hardly the image of a good man is it?

Pienaar has been a real good buy but, if he is wanting more than Everton want to give, then trade him for the nice profit they will make. Truth is that Pienaar is rather predictable and although he works hard he doesn't make penetrating runs or produce penetrating passes.

He cuts inside a lot and draws free kicks because he shields the ball well but other than that his contribution is not that great anymore. However, let's hope that we have a replacement lined up in the event they do let him go.

I had to ask myself a couple of questions on this.

Do I think Pienaar is a good player? ? YES

Do I think we'd be a worse team without him over a season? ? YES

Would any incoming player be on any less wages? ? NO

What would any comparable incoming replacement cost in transfer fee? ? c. £10 million.

Answer ? work out what it would cost to get a replacement and factor this in to Pienaar's contract.

Problems solved; no disruption to the squad, he knows the club and tactics well and feels "LOVED and WANTED".

God is good!!

Pienaar has only been vilified since his stance on refusing a new contract happened... He STILL gives 100% every time he plays and he filled in very well for Arteta when he was injured.

He has also complemented Baines down the left flank and those two have been our best attacking options. He also takes on opponents and is fouled more often than any other player barring Arteta.

Most of our players DO A JOB and give the ball to Arteta and Pienaar at every chance they get as those two have the best chance of creating something from open play. Maybe these facts are not obvious to some fans but they are to anyone with any nous!! I played the game semi-pro standard and it is plain to see that those two are our best players when on form, in the attacking sense.

Pienaar is worth double whatever Heitinga is paid and I don't blame him trying to get as much as the top players at EFC... Perhaps the so-called fans who are slating him in print are fully aware of the contract differences that are being argued about. I would NEVER call him a mediocre mercenary as he does his job and shirks nothing. Give him a fucking break ? unless you know all the facts.

Trevor #23 totally agree. Always gives 100% and never hides... a class player. How much will it cost to replace him?

Use the money from Heitinga leaving in January. Get his new contract sorted out now ?1 end of.

If he's asking for parity with other top earners then get him signed up, asking for more would be the problem!

The fact he is haggling shows shouldn't be a surprise, as I recall didn't we only just agree terms with him the first time around after his initial loan deal?

Also look at what a gamble getting a replacement can be, how much was Bily again?

Let's face it, DM held out over his new contract and football is a very lucrative business for players and managers alike. I have seen many players who were angling after better contracts hiding on the pitch and sulking... BUT that could never be levelled at Pienaar. He has always played a full part in every game he has played in and probably covers more ground than any other player we have.

I for one admire his professionalism, unlike some others, eg, Heitinga and Torres who are definitely lacking in concentration and not putting full shifts in... both are capable of better than what they have been giving.

Osman and Hibbert have been castigated for lack of ability, but neither could ever be criticised for lack of attitude.

To be honest, I think Moyes was hoping Billy would step up to the plate by replacing him. I mean I don't blame him seeing we paid 9 million for him. Just hasn't happened to be honest.

To be honest, I'd try everything with Spurs to exchange Pienaar for Kranjcar. It just suits both parties. Kranjcar would fit into that slot, maybe not as good as Pienaar but certainly good enough for us, and Pienaar would be going to a Champions League game.

If not, then give Billy and Gueye a chance. I just hope it's not left for Osman, I like him but he's far better in the middle.