The Mail Bag
The Enigma that is Clattenburg
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I know the subject of Mark Clattenburg, has been brought up before. But what puzzles me, and I'm sure many Evertonians, is why he has never been in charge of a Blues game at Goodison Park, and if my memory is correct, at any stadium in the Premier League, since that infamous derby match at Goodison some years ago.
I am sure some fan will be able to throw more light on the subject. I must point out that I'm not advocating for him to ever ref a match involving Everton. But surely when Mike Riley took over from Keith Hackett as Referee supremo, this must have been brought up?
I am not going down a conspiracy road but something does not add up.
Norman Merrill, Posted 26/10/2010 at 12:51:46
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Because the FA did not have the bottle to reprimand him after that derby match when he cheated us.
Gerrard refereed that game and the twat let him.
He has refereed in the prem on several occasions and took charge of one of the big games last weekend but can't for the life of me remember which one.
The man is a total prick of the highest order.
Gerrard refereed that game and the twat let him.
He has refereed in the prem on several occasions and took charge of one of the big games last weekend but can't for the life of me remember which one.
The man is a total prick of the highest order.
Michael is right.
It was the Arsenal City game.
It was the Arsenal City game.
I think when Norman said any other ground I'm sure he was talking about Everton away games.
There was an article on this subject in the Guardian last Saturday. It also mentioned Mike Dean has declared his support for Everton and therefore can't officiate at one of our matches.
At some point, Clattenburg is going to have to face the music otherwise the FA will have to admit that crowds can actually exert influence over referee selection.
Just to add, the Guardian stated that he had not officiated any of our matches since - home or away.
I can't remember where it was, think it was the Echo last week. But Clattenbung has officiated in something like 45 games since that derby, and but not one Everton game. At best we have been lucky, but if any official from the refs association can look you in the eye and say it is a coincidence, then football really has gone to shit.
He won't come to Goodison because he knows I'll bring my sniper rifle.
(Just in case this site is monitored by MI5 I'm partially joking. It's only a shotgun)
(Just in case this site is monitored by MI5 I'm partially joking. It's only a shotgun)
Ray's right it was the Guardian, probably still on their archive, worth reading if only too confirm what we all that we know.
Seriously, we have, as Evertonians, had to endure some terrible refereeing bias over the years. We have had some fortunate decisions in our favour too here and there but by and large, especially against the 'bigger' clubs we have had a raw deal.
Unlike most others however, I have never been able to reconcile that derby game and put it behind me. It still rankles.
I would dearly love to know what Clattenberg said to Moyes outside the dressing room after that match as I think that would tell us everything we, and the game in general, need to know. I also find it amazing that even after severely criticising a match official Moyes was not censored at all.
We may have to wait for Moyes' autobiography before we find out but I get the distinct impression that a deal was done. 'We won't censure you and we won't have him refereee another game involving Everton as long as no more is said'.
A cover up. He (Clattenberg) did disappear for a couple of months due to 'business difficulties' and began his return in the Championship.
He should have been sacked for the good of the game. If there is anything worse than a bent copper it is a bent referee.
Unlike most others however, I have never been able to reconcile that derby game and put it behind me. It still rankles.
I would dearly love to know what Clattenberg said to Moyes outside the dressing room after that match as I think that would tell us everything we, and the game in general, need to know. I also find it amazing that even after severely criticising a match official Moyes was not censored at all.
We may have to wait for Moyes' autobiography before we find out but I get the distinct impression that a deal was done. 'We won't censure you and we won't have him refereee another game involving Everton as long as no more is said'.
A cover up. He (Clattenberg) did disappear for a couple of months due to 'business difficulties' and began his return in the Championship.
He should have been sacked for the good of the game. If there is anything worse than a bent copper it is a bent referee.
PS the word Enigma is the wrong one. A more appropriate word is Stigma.
If i remember correctly, Moyes was charged by the FA for bringing the game into disrepute. These charges were the mysteriously dropped a couple of weeks later. That gobshite was suspended after making threats to his business partner.
I will never forget that day. Didn't he go on tour with the RS the previous summer?
I will never forget that day. Didn't he go on tour with the RS the previous summer?
I'm sure another Premier League ref supports us... is it Chris Foy? I don't think he can ref a match involving us.
I have asked the Clattenberg question several times, but never had an answer.
To my knowledge he has not refereed a Liverpool game either since the debacle of the 2007 derby though I am not 100% sure on this.
I have been told that each PL ref must officiate in a minimum of 8 games for each PL team, for instance Howard Webb should ref Everton at least 8 times this season.
The only reason for not refereeing particular teams is, place of birth, where you live and team allegiance.
Mark Clattenberg was born in Consett Co Durham and supports The Magpies.
I always thought Mr Clattenberg was a top ref, until that game and the subsequent revelations about his and his wifes closeness to Liverpool FC on a trip abroad.
To my knowledge he has not refereed a Liverpool game either since the debacle of the 2007 derby though I am not 100% sure on this.
I have been told that each PL ref must officiate in a minimum of 8 games for each PL team, for instance Howard Webb should ref Everton at least 8 times this season.
The only reason for not refereeing particular teams is, place of birth, where you live and team allegiance.
Mark Clattenberg was born in Consett Co Durham and supports The Magpies.
I always thought Mr Clattenberg was a top ref, until that game and the subsequent revelations about his and his wifes closeness to Liverpool FC on a trip abroad.
At least 2 Premier League refs support us, if some more come out of the woodwork, maybe we could get some help when other teams play each other to benefit us ? we deserve some luck like the rs have always had!
The correct word is ENEMA!
I was wondering what happened to him. He is not psychologically fit to be a referee. There should be some process to assess an individual. There are also some other processes that the referees association need to take into account. With so much money being banded about in sport to influence the outcome of a match, as seen in cricket, rugby their personal circumstances should be considered. For example he is bankrupt and ripped off his work partner for thousands. He was also allowed to get involved personally with Liverpool FC by going on tour with them. That was completely wrong. He also embarassed the referees association with the Everton Liverpool match, as was even discussed by ex Liverpool players on MOTD. It is good to know that although you have a bad credit rating, bankrupt, dodgy dealer who rips off the public, no qualifications, get things completely wrong, that although you wont get work elsewhere you can always become a english premier league referee.
Toffeeweb currently generates insufficent funds for organised visits to Dave Roberts in clink.
Therefore MI5 please note that ?sniper rifle? is actually Scouse rhyming slang for ?trifle.? Dave was planning to offer Clattenberg ?The Battenberg? an alternative to his normal cake-fueled diet.
Therefore MI5 please note that ?sniper rifle? is actually Scouse rhyming slang for ?trifle.? Dave was planning to offer Clattenberg ?The Battenberg? an alternative to his normal cake-fueled diet.
Thank you Andrew Ellams, I was indeed referring to beng in charge of EVERTON matches.
Maybe I wasn't explicit enough, I apologize.
Maybe I wasn't explicit enough, I apologize.
Good subject and some great post's; but I can't even begin to write and get myself all wound up over that useless twat "Cuntnberg"!
He's a shithouse, a disgrace to football and to his own profession.
He's a shithouse, a disgrace to football and to his own profession.
i wonder how long it will be before the media really pick up on this. It can't go on much longer before he is due to referee one of our games.
I'd bet he'll get as hot a reception at Goodison as anybody has ever got including Clive Thomas ( who amazingly was back at Goodison the season after that FA Cup semi in 1977. He was booed all the way to the centre circle. Incredibly though he actually refereed another Everton v Liverpool FA Cup match - in January 1981 when we beat them 2-1 in the 4th round. You can view that match on Youtube and he actually did a good job!
Can't see Twattenburg ever reffing another derby match though!
I'd bet he'll get as hot a reception at Goodison as anybody has ever got including Clive Thomas ( who amazingly was back at Goodison the season after that FA Cup semi in 1977. He was booed all the way to the centre circle. Incredibly though he actually refereed another Everton v Liverpool FA Cup match - in January 1981 when we beat them 2-1 in the 4th round. You can view that match on Youtube and he actually did a good job!
Can't see Twattenburg ever reffing another derby match though!
I know I shouldn't listen to these phone-ins as they bear very little relevance to us. But did anyone hear the blues fan on 5 live on sunday night, saying he'd be happy for him to referee our home games?I nearly crashed the car!
Play at 57 mins -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00vh7sm/606_24_10_2010
Play at 57 mins -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00vh7sm/606_24_10_2010
It was an extraordinary performance by Twattennburg. that dog face Carraghers foul on Lescott still stands out in my mind. Never a more blatant foul. As for that diving cheating cunt Gerrard wasn't his star fish dive alot less than the Yak going down. (Was it Konchesky's push??) I can't quite remember.
He'd be a very very brave man stepping foot at Goodison again.
He'd be a very very brave man stepping foot at Goodison again.
Dave Roberts. Why were you not a sniper in 1977 when a little shit of a ref took years to admit he fucked up.
Also Alan Robinson, who denied the Blues TWO clear penalties, one in 1984 at the Milk Cup Final and another in the 1986 F.A. Cup Final. Two big decisions that could have changed the outcome of both games.
Also Alan Robinson, who denied the Blues TWO clear penalties, one in 1984 at the Milk Cup Final and another in the 1986 F.A. Cup Final. Two big decisions that could have changed the outcome of both games.
I'm sure Moyes threatened to say what he knows about Clattenburg after his hearing over the comments he made about the game.
The FA are bricking it that he might give out some PR about one of their own.
The FA are bricking it that he might give out some PR about one of their own.
And he wears a dodgy wig...
Funnily enough if you rearrange the words 'Enigma' and ' Clattenburg' you get dirty cheatin red shite bastard, strange that isn't it
Mark Clattenburg's Wiki page has a whole section devoted the 2007 merseyside derby @ Goodison. Needless to say it highlights the errors of judgement and him being in Gerrard's pocket over the Hibbert sending off.
He will never come back to Goodison to officiate a match.
As far as I'm concerned he is either a Liverpool fan or was paid to throw the match Liverpool's favour.
He will never come back to Goodison to officiate a match.
As far as I'm concerned he is either a Liverpool fan or was paid to throw the match Liverpool's favour.
I still get angry about him,he should never ref a big game any where,and as for Thomas I met the twat years after the ,game and he just smirked while I called every thing you can think of and said he felt he had a good game
Another useless prick Graham Poll wrote a bit of an article yesterday/today about refs not giving decisions against certain players so as to appease them etc etc. Ronaldo was mentioned.
Since retiring he has spouted off in his newspaper colums about standards of referreeing etc.
What a prick - the last person who should talk about standards.
As for Clattenberg, agree with everyone the most blatant obvious biased referring in history and should never have been allowed to ref another game.
Since retiring he has spouted off in his newspaper colums about standards of referreeing etc.
What a prick - the last person who should talk about standards.
As for Clattenberg, agree with everyone the most blatant obvious biased referring in history and should never have been allowed to ref another game.
"Right, lads, let's get out stories straight" -
Clive "the Book" Thomas to linesmen, post-match, Maine Road, 1977
Clive "the Book" Thomas to linesmen, post-match, Maine Road, 1977
Karl #22, I remember that game. He cheats us in both games in the '77 semi and then the next season he got us in the third round versus Villa. The arrogant twat even laughed as he took to the pitch and covered his ears when the boo's rained down.
4-1 we won, Villa never stood a chance, we didn't need a team talk, the players just looked at Thomas. Clattenburg might be worth a go just for that reaction.
I think there has to be something dodgy about it Clive Thomas wassn't corrupt just an incompetent moron. Clattenburgs decisions were totally different I've never seen such a biased referee ever. Cilve Thomas as pretty consistent with his stupidity and gave dodgy decisions most games even in the world cup. If they were errors then he would be allowed to referee Everton again. Howard Webb hasn't exactly gave us many decisions either. My view is that Clattenburg was bribed or was under pressure from other outside influences. He should of been sacked after that game.
James #26 - I think you are nearest the mark on this one.
Moyes was charged and once he appeared before the FA, the charges were quickly and quietly dropped. I would love to know why, something to do with video evidence and that referee who agreed with Moysie just after the incidents! I don't believe that Moyes, or Everton for that matter, would accept him as a referee at Goodison again. I wouldn't be surprised either if he has been told that he would not referee any of our matches away from Goodison either.
Good riddance - smug, plasticky, horrible, greasy bastard!
Surely the FA must insist that Clattenburg referees another Everton game some time soon as it cannot allow a situation where a manager / crowd dictates who can / cannot referee a match involving their team? Aside from those matches that might be compromised by a ref's stated allegiance, the integrity of the refereeing panel can only be maintained if ANY ref is permitted to referee ANY match? If not, then Fergie power, for instance, would dictate that Alan Wiley never ref again at Old Trafford.
I think the FA will have to confront their demons and assign Clattenburg to an Everton match at Goodison. I generally do not slate referees (having tried it myself and realised just how difficult it is) and had thought, prior to that derby, that Clattenburg was actually a good referee but I have to admit that was the most incompetent refereeing display that I have ever witnessed in nearly 50 years of watching professional football.
I think the FA will have to confront their demons and assign Clattenburg to an Everton match at Goodison. I generally do not slate referees (having tried it myself and realised just how difficult it is) and had thought, prior to that derby, that Clattenburg was actually a good referee but I have to admit that was the most incompetent refereeing display that I have ever witnessed in nearly 50 years of watching professional football.
The CIA did it! Or the martians.
Conspiracies, conspiracies
Conspiracies, conspiracies
I was told by a club insider that Moyes was dissapointed that the FA dropped disrepute charges against him, because of what Clattenburg said to him after the game. According to the insider, Moyes confronted Clattenburg, and in front of witnesses including John Barnwell from the LMA, Clattenburg said:
"You don't give penalties against Liverpool in the last minute".
Moyes, like everybody else within earshot, was gobsmacked. I do wish Moyes would go public on the issue though, just to show what a cheating bastard this referee is.
It is plainly obvious that something was dodgy in that game. I personally think the Collina 1 was more sinister but I have no doubt in my mind that there was something to both games.
Take a look at the Collina one. FIFA publicly state they don?t want 5 English teams in the competition. I remember when the referee listings were given for the 2nd leg being very confused ? we had been comprehensively outplayed by a far superior team at home, I ? like most others ? deemed the 2nd leg to be a formality. So we get ?the best? ref in the world. All seemed strange. Add to this was the year of the Italian ref scandal and he mysteriously retired soon after, something wasn?t right there.
Clattenburg is a little different ? I just think he is a genuine idiot who is a Liverpool fan. You can tell how the performance was bias by simply noticing he waited till the 2nd half before stating to make crazy decision ? he refereed excellently for the first 50-60 minutes then made at least 4 shocking decisions (when Liverpool looked pretty dead on their feet). Any fool could see that he was giving them things in their favour and I think all associated with the FA were pretty embarrassed. I think the charges were dropped against Moyes as he was going to say a lot of home truths in his hearings and the FA knew that, a lot of what he said, would be right and highlight the shortcomings of the FA and this shockingly bias and incompetent ref
Take a look at the Collina one. FIFA publicly state they don?t want 5 English teams in the competition. I remember when the referee listings were given for the 2nd leg being very confused ? we had been comprehensively outplayed by a far superior team at home, I ? like most others ? deemed the 2nd leg to be a formality. So we get ?the best? ref in the world. All seemed strange. Add to this was the year of the Italian ref scandal and he mysteriously retired soon after, something wasn?t right there.
Clattenburg is a little different ? I just think he is a genuine idiot who is a Liverpool fan. You can tell how the performance was bias by simply noticing he waited till the 2nd half before stating to make crazy decision ? he refereed excellently for the first 50-60 minutes then made at least 4 shocking decisions (when Liverpool looked pretty dead on their feet). Any fool could see that he was giving them things in their favour and I think all associated with the FA were pretty embarrassed. I think the charges were dropped against Moyes as he was going to say a lot of home truths in his hearings and the FA knew that, a lot of what he said, would be right and highlight the shortcomings of the FA and this shockingly bias and incompetent ref
re: Clattenburg: was that not the game when Kuyt jumped two-footed into Phil Neville as well?
Collina: agreed the disallowed goal was mysterious but I think it might have been one of those things. If memory serves Kilbane was lucky to stay on the pitch in that game (I think Moyes hauled him off in fact) as he was uncharacteristically flying into challenges. He did one too many and I thought he was off; Collina let it go.
But then again maybe having Kilbane on the pitch isn't the same as a goal....
Collina: agreed the disallowed goal was mysterious but I think it might have been one of those things. If memory serves Kilbane was lucky to stay on the pitch in that game (I think Moyes hauled him off in fact) as he was uncharacteristically flying into challenges. He did one too many and I thought he was off; Collina let it go.
But then again maybe having Kilbane on the pitch isn't the same as a goal....
Clattenburg was suspended by the FA because he got into serious debt as a result of failed businesses. Debt makes a referee an easy target for - shall we say - financial encouragement.
What his financial situation was before the failed business came to light is a reasonable subject for speculation. Debts don't happen overnight.
What his financial situation was before the failed business came to light is a reasonable subject for speculation. Debts don't happen overnight.
For anyone who needs reminding:
The Lescott decision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHX1hBItnDQ&feature=related
The Hibbett decision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfHjqDOuflM&feature=related
There's just no defence.
The Lescott decision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHX1hBItnDQ&feature=related
The Hibbett decision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfHjqDOuflM&feature=related
There's just no defence.
There was another penalty as well as the Lescott one, and the Kuyt none red card was the worst decision of the lot.
It's a classic move by bent refs. Ball comes over near or far post and attacking team scores. As with Collina blows for a foul off the ball and disqualifies the goal.
When you see it once and it happens again your eyes are wide open.
I first saw it in 1998 with Sol Campbell. It was, as with Everton a straight between the eyes moment.
Why do you think FIFA will never allow goal line techno. They say they will but can you ever imagine S.Korea v Belgium in a world cup final.
Ever the Cynic, but there you go.
When you see it once and it happens again your eyes are wide open.
I first saw it in 1998 with Sol Campbell. It was, as with Everton a straight between the eyes moment.
Why do you think FIFA will never allow goal line techno. They say they will but can you ever imagine S.Korea v Belgium in a world cup final.
Ever the Cynic, but there you go.
In most situations (football of life) you can forgive and forget eventually, but regarding Clattenburg and the infamous derby match in October 2007 I cannot forgive and certainly won't ever forget.
It still makes me angry now when I think about how that gobshite Gerrard walked past Clattenburg, muttered something to him before Clattenburg changes the card in his hand from yellow to red and sends Hibbo off.
The refereeing authorities know that Clattenburg fuked up big time that day but will never admit it. Instead they will just ensure that he (Clattenburg) will never referee another Everton game again and that's fine by me.
Gerard gets Hibbo sent off. - totally unacceptable
Kyut's kung-foo kick on Neville - Only a yellow card ?!!!
Carragher pulling down Lescott not once but twice in the penalty area. Nothing given.- unbelievable.
Hang your head in shame Clattenburg and NEVER treat our hallowed turf again.
It still makes me angry now when I think about how that gobshite Gerrard walked past Clattenburg, muttered something to him before Clattenburg changes the card in his hand from yellow to red and sends Hibbo off.
The refereeing authorities know that Clattenburg fuked up big time that day but will never admit it. Instead they will just ensure that he (Clattenburg) will never referee another Everton game again and that's fine by me.
Gerard gets Hibbo sent off. - totally unacceptable
Kyut's kung-foo kick on Neville - Only a yellow card ?!!!
Carragher pulling down Lescott not once but twice in the penalty area. Nothing given.- unbelievable.
Hang your head in shame Clattenburg and NEVER treat our hallowed turf again.
I would love him to officiate at Goodison - Imagine the trepidation the shithouse would have and the pressure he would be under
He'd be our bitch for life....
He'd be our bitch for life....
I was only thinking this the other day about the fact that Clattenburg had never been in charge of another Everton game since 'that derby' It can't be a coincidence as we get our fair share of other 'shit' referees.
Someone at the FA has to be making sure that he is never involved in an Everton game ever again.
I noticed that we had Howard Webb twice is three games which is unusual too, Fulham away, then at Home to the Shite.
As for Chris Foy, wouldn't the reason he doesn't get Everton games be the reason he lives in St.Helens? His wikipedia page says he's an Everton fan but the source is stated as Blue Kipper.
Finally I have a few mates who watch Chester and Chris Foy about 10 years ago attacked on the pitch by one of their fans after sending off a Chester player. One of the worst decisions ever by a referee they say, I know the bloke who did it and he says he'd do a Big Dunc on Stefan Freund job next time!
Someone at the FA has to be making sure that he is never involved in an Everton game ever again.
I noticed that we had Howard Webb twice is three games which is unusual too, Fulham away, then at Home to the Shite.
As for Chris Foy, wouldn't the reason he doesn't get Everton games be the reason he lives in St.Helens? His wikipedia page says he's an Everton fan but the source is stated as Blue Kipper.
Finally I have a few mates who watch Chester and Chris Foy about 10 years ago attacked on the pitch by one of their fans after sending off a Chester player. One of the worst decisions ever by a referee they say, I know the bloke who did it and he says he'd do a Big Dunc on Stefan Freund job next time!
I think the spirit of Clattenberg was in Probert today, absolutely shocking refereeing performance.
So was Clattenberg's performance today ? anyone see the second Utd goal? If that had been Everton, I'd have been onto that pitch rapido!
Don't think we'll be seeing Clattenburg reffing Spurs much either in future games.
That guy is a fuckup.
That guy is a fuckup.
I could not have made that performance yesterday at Old Trafford up if I had wanted too. But it just goes to show that the man is a liability and should be dropped to the under-11's league. Even then ? what have the kids done to deserve him?
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1 Posted 26/10/2010 at 14:58:45
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