The Mail Bag
Cringing at Neville
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"I was cringing with the coverage on Sunday," Neville says. "I was totally embarrassed by it. Sometimes you have to take the plaudits, they don't come around that often, but I found it embarrassing on Sunday, so I stopped reading the papers and turned the television off. I found it disrespectful to Seamus Coleman, Johnny Heitinga and the other players who stopped Bale from getting the ball, or who helped me out when he did. I came out with a few plaudits and I don't really enjoy that because I am a team player. I don't shout about myself and I've always been team orientated, so maybe that is why I have always slipped under the radar throughout my career."
Is it just me or is it the case of the less said by our captain the better?Phil Neville doesn't shout about his performances, well what is this very interview about then if not highlighting his own worth? I know that he went on to talk about management etc but I just find that he says some very strange things.
It wasn't that long ago that he said that he didn't think that Everton needed anymore players and then thankfully the Yak came out and said that sounds like a player fearing for his own position.
I don't particularly like or rate Neville, an average-to-poor first touch, poor distribution and a decent tackle and decent long throw... hardly leading by example or the first name on the teamsheet material, as with other skippers. I think the reasons just mentioned are why Neville doesn't receive rave reviews and he certainly hasn't 'slipped under the radar.' In fact, after a couple of good performances last season, he was actually tipped for England.
I think it may actually be an intelligence issue (or lack of). Go on YouTube and watch him play the Yes or No game ? it's awful.
I think we need a right back still; I'm not sure that Coleman has the same ability to defend as he does to go forward, he conceded a penalty against Brentford and was fortunate to not have another (and red card) against Newcastle.
Anyway, the long-term right-back is another issue but for now, Neville ? leave the pre-/post-match interviews for Moyes, Cahill, Arteta et al, concentrate on your own game, and then receiving some praise in the Sunday papers shouldn't be such an uncomfortable surprise.
Ian Campbell, Posted 29/10/2010 at 20:27:12
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Neville ? a True Blue!!
Ian Campbell
He's Captain of the team, and a good Captian too, apparently. He's bound to be asked for his opinions and to comment on all things Everton. People should try getting off his back for once.
He's Captain of the team, and a good Captian too, apparently. He's bound to be asked for his opinions and to comment on all things Everton. People should try getting off his back for once.
While Neville isn't the best footballer, you just have to hear how much the players and most of all Moyes respect him. He is limited as a player but he did play brilliantly last week. And I am no statistician, but if you look at our results overall, we seem get better results with him in the team. I was dumfounded when we first signed him, but think he has been excellent for Everton almost from Day 1.
I feel privileged to be a great admirer of Neville, both as an outstanding captain, an excellent player ? at full-back or in midfield ? and as a man. Were there more like him on the circuit, the Premier League would be a far better place.
If anyone watched 'Goals on Sunday' last week, they would have seen both Tim Cahill and Phil Jagielka state that there 'is no coincidence we are better side when he is in the team with his commanding influence'..(or something along those lines)...
Phil Neville isn't the best footballer and I hate that he is the only player in the league that backs off an oncoming striker more than Hibbert does... but you can hear him on the pitch and the defence/midfield is better for it.
Phil Neville isn't the best footballer and I hate that he is the only player in the league that backs off an oncoming striker more than Hibbert does... but you can hear him on the pitch and the defence/midfield is better for it.
Ian, Its all about opinions, but like Jamie Rowland I watched Goals on Sunday, and Cahill & Jagielka both gave their backing for the skipper.
As for Coleman, the lad came into English football from Sligo, and right into the Premier League. He was loaned out for experience to Blackpool, and helped them gain promotion. The lad is still learning, and going forward, is one of his strengths. I feel that he could become a goalscorer when he gains more confidence but only time will tell.
Any excuse for another criticism of Neville. The reason some people on here contine to resent him has nothing to do with his football ability but about where he has come from and his perceived ability level back then when he got in the England team based on who he played for rather than how he played.
But get over it! He's been with us now for 5 years and there is absolutely no doubt that we are a better team when he is playing than when he is not. He is still our best right back and there are many other priorities for the squad than improving his position at this time.
But get over it! He's been with us now for 5 years and there is absolutely no doubt that we are a better team when he is playing than when he is not. He is still our best right back and there are many other priorities for the squad than improving his position at this time.
He's made Everton a better Football club with his influence, and we're a better organised team whenever he plays, irrespective of his own performance.
I'm more convinced on the sincerity of Neville than Cahill. Not saying Cahill isn't sincere, but he certainly has found his gap in the market for the southerm hemisphere and comes over a little cloying. Neville is "What you see what you get".
On the point Ray Roche (#2) made: As captain he's probably asked for a comment or three on a daily basis by the media, and these days I don't think players are allowed to do a Duncan. Witness the BBC/SAF fall out and they are demanding that he speaks to their journalists, and it?s costing him every time he refuses. I am not sure whether the new rules extend to footballers but it?s unheard of for a player to snub the media these days.
@8
Don't care about the fact he's a Mancunian, nor do I care in any way shape or form about the England team. What I do care about is his lack of footballing quality on the pitch, which in my opinion is undeniable - one decent game or not.
Don't care about the fact he's a Mancunian, nor do I care in any way shape or form about the England team. What I do care about is his lack of footballing quality on the pitch, which in my opinion is undeniable - one decent game or not.
He's not the greatest player in the world we all know this, but anyone who suggests he has brought nothing to Everton since signing for us knows nothing about team sports and leaders. The guy is 100% committed to the club and is certainly a top professional.
I don't rate him as a full back or in midfield. Moyes loves these type of players and always will do. I wonder how we would have done without Coleman in front of him (the man is at least honest enough to admit this himself).
Moyes loves these types of players? What about the signings of Rodrigo, AVDM, Fernandes, Bily, Saha, Yak, Ferarri, Donovan, Arteta who for better or worse are flair players. I'd add Simon Davies but I don't want to ruin my fireworks.
He doesn't shout about his performances for one very solid reason ? they're mostly cack. He was cack again last Saturday.
Ciarán McGlone
Not letting us down by being positive about the club captain again!! You are always consistent... if nothing else.
Not letting us down by being positive about the club captain again!! You are always consistent... if nothing else.
Seems like there's not too many on here that agree with my views then (or those that do get up a bit later). Its certainly not a 'whinge for whinge sake' and it doesn't have anything to do with him being ex-United ? I just dont rate him on the pitch and think that he talks a lot of shite when interviewed.
Ray #2 ? I have no problem with him being asked for his opinion, I just think that his opinion is strange a lot of the time and why would he say that he is uncomfortable when the papers report that he has played well, that makes little sense... it's not U8's everyone knows its a team game and doubt Coleman and Heitinga are remotely bothered.
Do we really think that any team that has aspirations of a 4th placed finish would be fielding Neville? I don't. I think we are 1 right back and 1 forward away from being back to challenging from 4-5th place.
Oliver #15 ? I agree Neville was a good signing, served the club very well and was exactly what we needed then... soon it should be thanks very much and here's a squad number and job on the backroom staff.
Ray #2 ? I have no problem with him being asked for his opinion, I just think that his opinion is strange a lot of the time and why would he say that he is uncomfortable when the papers report that he has played well, that makes little sense... it's not U8's everyone knows its a team game and doubt Coleman and Heitinga are remotely bothered.
Do we really think that any team that has aspirations of a 4th placed finish would be fielding Neville? I don't. I think we are 1 right back and 1 forward away from being back to challenging from 4-5th place.
Oliver #15 ? I agree Neville was a good signing, served the club very well and was exactly what we needed then... soon it should be thanks very much and here's a squad number and job on the backroom staff.
Interesting that both the opposition manager and our own captain thought Heitenga did a good job, but everyone on here has slated him.
4 out of 5 clean sheets since he's been back in the defence and the only goal conceded was Howard's clanger. He must be doing something right.
Dean, Neville's pretty consistent too... could my consistency be linked to that?
Ciaran, you remind me of those old men you get sitting in front of you at the game complaining constantly about every little aspect. Nothing wrong with it but your the most pessimistic Everton fan I've ever seen on here.
Do you ever have a good word to say or are you always as negative as an electron?
Do you ever have a good word to say or are you always as negative as an electron?
".....He was cack again last Saturday"
Thanks for that pearl of wisdom Ciaran!!! Pity that the likes of Harry Redknapp, David Moyes and virtually every Sunday newspaper's football correspondent as well as Neville's own team mates don't possess your foresight and knowledge of the game!!
You wanna try getting out more. It'll do you the world good!!!
Thanks for that pearl of wisdom Ciaran!!! Pity that the likes of Harry Redknapp, David Moyes and virtually every Sunday newspaper's football correspondent as well as Neville's own team mates don't possess your foresight and knowledge of the game!!
You wanna try getting out more. It'll do you the world good!!!
He's back! The lad that had the wharped view that an Evertonian that had been to a couple of away games deserved a FA Cup final ticket more than a season ticket holder.
Are you Dave Wilson in disguise?
"I think it may actually be an intelligence issue (or lack of). Go on YouTube and watch him play the Yes or No game ? it's awful."
No thanks. I'll stick to football.
In regards to the intelligence thing, well, Wayne Rooney isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the draw and nobody doubts his quality. Maradona is braindead too. There's a difference between intellect and footballing knowledge.
For me he can say what he wants as long as the defence he is leading does not conceed.
"Thanks for that pearl of wisdom Ciaran!!! "
No problem Sean... the Brady Bunch usually need things spelt out.
Especially after they rely on the old 'David Moyes and Harry Rednapp said so ? so it must be true' argument.
No problem Sean... the Brady Bunch usually need things spelt out.
Especially after they rely on the old 'David Moyes and Harry Rednapp said so ? so it must be true' argument.
Good to see you back Ciaran, I've missed your forthright contributions whether I agree with them or not. You're right what do Moyes, Redknapp, Ferguson etc. know about football? Certainly not as much as the Toffeewebb Massive :-)
I think posts 3,4 and 5 say it all. Buying Phil Neville was one of the most important buys we have had in the last decade. He certainly isn't one of the best players in the world but I think he has been one of the most influential.
Ahhh, now we've added Ferguson to the Moyes and Rednapp gang... it's officially a triumverate... almost ecumenical!
But then again, we also had Hansen in some kind of omniscient position earlier as well... so it's an ever-growing gang of ultimate opinions!
Apart form David Moyes... how many Everton games do you think these blessed trio/quartet/apostels have watched in the last 25 years?
I'd say it's pretty well below any Evertionians count.
Perhaps we should stick to supporting our own opinions eh.
But then again, we also had Hansen in some kind of omniscient position earlier as well... so it's an ever-growing gang of ultimate opinions!
Apart form David Moyes... how many Everton games do you think these blessed trio/quartet/apostels have watched in the last 25 years?
I'd say it's pretty well below any Evertionians count.
Perhaps we should stick to supporting our own opinions eh.
Phil Neville, superstar, got more medals than Steve Gerrard..........
Brian (#24) ? how little must you have going on in your life to remember that that was me back in April 2009 or whenever it was... That said, you got it wrong: I only said that a non-ST holder that had been to more overall games in the FA Cup season (h & a) than a ST holder that only goes to Goodison should get priority for the biggest away game of the season ? is it really that warped? No need to answer we've exhausted that argument previously.
Anyway, it's a forum, I started the thread to see if people thought the same as I do ? most don't so no problem. I'll still support Neville whenever he puts on the blue shirt; it is just my preference that, in the coming seasons, we get a better replacement and he wears it less and less ? that''s all!
COYB!!!
Anyway, it's a forum, I started the thread to see if people thought the same as I do ? most don't so no problem. I'll still support Neville whenever he puts on the blue shirt; it is just my preference that, in the coming seasons, we get a better replacement and he wears it less and less ? that''s all!
COYB!!!
"I'll still support Neville whenever he puts on the blue shirt; it is just my preference that, in the coming seasons, we get a better replacement and he wears it less and less ? that's all!"
------
Ian, Wash your mouth out, this kind of aspiration will not be tolerated!
------
Ian, Wash your mouth out, this kind of aspiration will not be tolerated!
Ian ? I only remember cranks. What you've just said is wrong and what you actually said is in the archive.
Only a season ticket holder with 3 credits (i.e. all home cup games) got a ticket so what you on about now? You bizarrely claimed that someone who had been to a few away games and no season ticket had more right.
Brian, did you really go through the archive? If you did thats pretty sad, I vaguely remember what I wrote but even if you are right and I made a bizarre claim back then (which I didn't) I fail to see what relevance that has now with this latest thread and the only one that I have started. Making out like I am some weido with a history is very wide of the mark.
Ciaran (21)>(22) ? I'm awaiting a response...
Brian (24), I assume and hope you're not talking about me?
Brian (24), I assume and hope you're not talking about me?
"Apart form David Moyes... how many Everton games do you think these blessed trio/quartet/apostels have watched in the last 25 years?"
Bless you, Ciaran, never knowingly contradicted or last worded. :-) I didn't realise Neville had been with us for 25 years? I also thought he played for Ferguson at Manchester United? Or was that his brother? Us Brady Bunchers are so easily confused.
Bless you, Ciaran, never knowingly contradicted or last worded. :-) I didn't realise Neville had been with us for 25 years? I also thought he played for Ferguson at Manchester United? Or was that his brother? Us Brady Bunchers are so easily confused.
The guy's 100% dedicated to the Everton cause ? how many players can you really say that about nowadays. Pienaar? Heitinga? Get off his back.
And his modesty ? obviously a heinous crime.
He is a limited player... but a great pro, totally committed and a fantastic example for the younger players coming through.
As we're skint ? and Maicon isn't looking to kiss our badge any time soon ? you should join the real world and be thankful that here's a guy who'll give everything for Everton when he goes out on the pitch. If only there were more like him.
And his modesty ? obviously a heinous crime.
He is a limited player... but a great pro, totally committed and a fantastic example for the younger players coming through.
As we're skint ? and Maicon isn't looking to kiss our badge any time soon ? you should join the real world and be thankful that here's a guy who'll give everything for Everton when he goes out on the pitch. If only there were more like him.
To answer the original post, I didn't see the relevant interview but I'd bet my life Neville didn't just start bleeting about being embarrassed about his rave reviews following the Spurs game, I'd be pretty sure he was answering a direct question such as 'What do make of all the rave reviews you received following the Spurs game?' ? and he answered as I would expect a captain to answer. Not sure Ian what answer you would have deemed acceptable yourself?
Jim #39 ? join the real world? You said yourself that 'he is a limited player'. Why would Everton who are looking to get into Europe want a limited player? Obviously Maicon's not knocking on our door so if we can't get the very best then we should at least be looking for better than we have or should we fill our team with Hibbert, Osman & Neville because, although they aren't the best, they are loyal? Come on, it's not playground stuff.
GJ #40 ? how about something along the lines of "It was a good performance and reading the Sunday papers is now a far more enjoyable experience than it was at the start of the season". Surely that's better than 'oh I'm so embarrassed, I really feel for the others not getting sufficient credit, I'm really modest and stay under the radar' blah blah.
GJ #40 ? how about something along the lines of "It was a good performance and reading the Sunday papers is now a far more enjoyable experience than it was at the start of the season". Surely that's better than 'oh I'm so embarrassed, I really feel for the others not getting sufficient credit, I'm really modest and stay under the radar' blah blah.
A footballer gives a startlingly humble and modest interview, in which he credits his teammates even when others (including neutrals and opponents) have been crediting him and somebody STILL finds a way of slagging him off.
I don't know what interview you read, but I was proud of Neville when I read it. Some people will just whinge about literally anything they can.
I don't know what interview you read, but I was proud of Neville when I read it. Some people will just whinge about literally anything they can.
Ciaran could you explain precisely what is wrong with valueing the opinions of David Moyes, Alex Ferguson and Harry Redknapp (and even Alan Hansen I suppose)?
Mike, I think it may have more to do with if you're a fan of football in general or a fan of Everton to the point of exclusivity. I'm definitely heading in the latter direction, and firmly believe that there is some merit to the fact that some Evertonians try to make sure they watch every Everton game, whereas these pundits, through the very nature of their jobs, cannot possibly do so. They are only going to see edited highlights at best.
Furthermore, Evertonians may be more totally immersed in Evertonian comments views and opinions, and less in those of the broader media and fanbase. That may make their views more narrowly defined, but I don't agree that it devalues them ? quite the opposite. I'd much rather read what Evertonians have to say (hence the website!) but I'm increasingly disinterested in the rest of the football blather out there.
You and I have locked horns on what you see as a need for more insular Evertonians (like me!) to see some boarder perspective based on comparisons with other clubs, etc. While that may shape your views, all well and good. I don't think it makes your views better ? just different.
Furthermore, Evertonians may be more totally immersed in Evertonian comments views and opinions, and less in those of the broader media and fanbase. That may make their views more narrowly defined, but I don't agree that it devalues them ? quite the opposite. I'd much rather read what Evertonians have to say (hence the website!) but I'm increasingly disinterested in the rest of the football blather out there.
You and I have locked horns on what you see as a need for more insular Evertonians (like me!) to see some boarder perspective based on comparisons with other clubs, etc. While that may shape your views, all well and good. I don't think it makes your views better ? just different.
Mike #42 ? saying that some people just look for an excuse to whinge is a really lazy and inaccurate response. This is the first time that I have started a thread and I seldom comment (although a bit more recently) on other articles either so I don't fall into your classification.
I just find some of Neville's comments rather strange and sometimes bordering on the negative. I personally would much rather it was Jagielka or Arteta that was speaking to the press pre/post match as our captain ? always guaranteed a place in the team, they both sound intelligent when interviewed and are professional and give 100% when they play. The latter two qualities seem to be the justification for Neville as skipper.
I just find some of Neville's comments rather strange and sometimes bordering on the negative. I personally would much rather it was Jagielka or Arteta that was speaking to the press pre/post match as our captain ? always guaranteed a place in the team, they both sound intelligent when interviewed and are professional and give 100% when they play. The latter two qualities seem to be the justification for Neville as skipper.
Just to show how crap and unifluencial Neville is. He played one of the first five games in the league this year. We won none of them. He came back in for the last five games in the league we lost none of them.
And guess what last year?
When he was out injured we went on a run of 1 win in 9 league games. He came back an we lost 2 of the next 20.
Yes - he really is shite that Phil Neville.
And guess what last year?
When he was out injured we went on a run of 1 win in 9 league games. He came back an we lost 2 of the next 20.
Yes - he really is shite that Phil Neville.
Chris so Everton are now effectively a one man team, that man being Phil Neville - thats the most ridiculous argument i've heard.
We start slow every year and it just so happens that Neville was out for the 4 of the first 5 games - in his absence though we had a good performance at Villa and a very credible 3-3 draw with Utd. In the game he did play at Blackburn we lost so what happened there?
Shite argument!
We start slow every year and it just so happens that Neville was out for the 4 of the first 5 games - in his absence though we had a good performance at Villa and a very credible 3-3 draw with Utd. In the game he did play at Blackburn we lost so what happened there?
Shite argument!
Ian that may well be perfectly true of you so there are two separate issues here.
1) I simply disagree about the Neville interview. He's our captain, he comes across well, and I think he just gave honest and humble answers to the questions he was asked, I don't think he went looking to make a point that he's really modest.
2) Reading Toffeeweb, one comes across an awful lot of negative articles about our players, manager and owner. Some of these are justified (though often over the top) and many are not, so when I read yours and felt it wasn't justified it was definitely a case of the last straw. I suppose I''m guilty of lumping you in with a whole load of other posters who've moaned about a whole load of other things.
1) I simply disagree about the Neville interview. He's our captain, he comes across well, and I think he just gave honest and humble answers to the questions he was asked, I don't think he went looking to make a point that he's really modest.
2) Reading Toffeeweb, one comes across an awful lot of negative articles about our players, manager and owner. Some of these are justified (though often over the top) and many are not, so when I read yours and felt it wasn't justified it was definitely a case of the last straw. I suppose I''m guilty of lumping you in with a whole load of other posters who've moaned about a whole load of other things.
Ian - I never said we were a one man team. I simply presented the facts that show we get more points when he is in the team than when he is not.
I noticed that you only picked up on the first half of my stats though to justify your own blinkered view of Neville. How about the second part of the stats from last season? Are you trying to suggest that we always have a shit 10th to 18th game every year?
I think with you it isn't a case of "shit arguement" more like "no arguement "
I noticed that you only picked up on the first half of my stats though to justify your own blinkered view of Neville. How about the second part of the stats from last season? Are you trying to suggest that we always have a shit 10th to 18th game every year?
I think with you it isn't a case of "shit arguement" more like "no arguement "
Chris your first and second points are effectively the same. Its not a valid measurement of Neville that you have provided because there are basically no elements that stay constant.
If your methodiology was to work you would need the following to occur which clearly cannot;
1) Same opposition played at same location with/without PN.
2) Opposition would need to perform to exactly the same levels with/without PN.
3) The other 10 players in Everton team would need to remain the same throughout the period.
4) Other everton players would need to perform the same - same fitness levels etc etc.
For all we know last year during that time when Neville was absent we may well have played away at Utd and Villa for example yet he came back into the team for Burnley/Hull. Its clearly not the same so any argument about with/without neville is inherently flawed.
I hope that answers your question!
If your methodiology was to work you would need the following to occur which clearly cannot;
1) Same opposition played at same location with/without PN.
2) Opposition would need to perform to exactly the same levels with/without PN.
3) The other 10 players in Everton team would need to remain the same throughout the period.
4) Other everton players would need to perform the same - same fitness levels etc etc.
For all we know last year during that time when Neville was absent we may well have played away at Utd and Villa for example yet he came back into the team for Burnley/Hull. Its clearly not the same so any argument about with/without neville is inherently flawed.
I hope that answers your question!
Ian - thanks for the detailed response but I have to say this is an overly complex methodology of calculating the value of a specific player.
As we are never going to play the same team every week and every other player would remain constant, then your suggested methodolgy is a purely academic and unrealistic suggestion.
However, my method is far simpler and easier to work out. Do we lose more often when Neville is in the team or not? The analysis of the results suggests that we lose more games when he isn't in the team. The only way of actually assessing this is to look at the games he played in and those he didn't.
Just to be fairer to you though and go a little way to assessing like with like:
There are 4 games this season that mirror those games he missed in the period I referred to last season:
Last season:
Spurs Away - Lost 2-0
Liverpool Home - Lost 2-0
Wolves Home drew 1-1
Stoke home drew 1-1
Neville played in none of these. Wins out of 4 = zero
This season:
Spurs away - drew 1-1- he played
Liverpool home - won 2-0 he played
Wolves home drew 1-1-he didn't play
Stoke home won 1-0 he played.
. He played in 3 lost - zero.
As we are never going to play the same team every week and every other player would remain constant, then your suggested methodolgy is a purely academic and unrealistic suggestion.
However, my method is far simpler and easier to work out. Do we lose more often when Neville is in the team or not? The analysis of the results suggests that we lose more games when he isn't in the team. The only way of actually assessing this is to look at the games he played in and those he didn't.
Just to be fairer to you though and go a little way to assessing like with like:
There are 4 games this season that mirror those games he missed in the period I referred to last season:
Last season:
Spurs Away - Lost 2-0
Liverpool Home - Lost 2-0
Wolves Home drew 1-1
Stoke home drew 1-1
Neville played in none of these. Wins out of 4 = zero
This season:
Spurs away - drew 1-1- he played
Liverpool home - won 2-0 he played
Wolves home drew 1-1-he didn't play
Stoke home won 1-0 he played.
. He played in 3 lost - zero.
Chris I wasn't suggesting this as a methodology just pointing out what factors would need to be prevalent for yours to be valid.
In the absence of these common denominators you can only look at how the player performs each game. As I have said before I think that Nevilles first touch and distribution are average to poor his ability to beat players is far inferior to Baines on the other side. He shouts a bit more and is a fairly decent tackler, not sure that warrants an automatic start as captain to be honest!
In the absence of these common denominators you can only look at how the player performs each game. As I have said before I think that Nevilles first touch and distribution are average to poor his ability to beat players is far inferior to Baines on the other side. He shouts a bit more and is a fairly decent tackler, not sure that warrants an automatic start as captain to be honest!
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1 Posted 30/10/2010 at 07:08:18
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