The Mail Bag
The right to be critcal
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Some wins of late have brought out citicism of supporters who dare to question our displays ? as though the ends justify the means... absolutely monstrous! The present Everton way is meandering ? sometimes we're up for it; sometimes not.
When ahead, we tend to retreat rather than push on and whatever the merits of 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 or any other bingo numbers, we are at heart a defensive team. The boy Coleman may suffer because of this as Beckford most certainly is; similarly Gueye, another forward, isn't getting a look in.
The fabled 10 game judgement period has come and gone, predictably we are in neither relegation nor european places and are out of one cup; and this is the rub: if Davey would just get someone in to talk attacking football, even on a short-term consultancy basis, I reckon we'd do much better and be more entertaining.
In my opinion, those giving blind support to what's happening play (or did play) in goal or defence and carry a deep-seated resentment against skilfull footballers. I might add without any false modesty I was a two-footed attacking midfielder of magnificent ability... think Cruyff when he was at it.
Leon Perrin, Posted 31/10/2010 at 18:55:06
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A fairish point Leon, but Moyesis what he is and he is not, off his own bat, (that then becomes a different debate) going to hire someone to advise him whose whole ethos is the reverse of his. If he thought that way he would be doing it already.
The turkey is not going to vote for Christmas...ever.
The turkey is not going to vote for Christmas...ever.
Games against the likes of Stoke and similar teams are always going to be the kind of feel your arsehole healing over type match where you wonder what else you could be doing.
Two things that still strike me and really get my goat though is this incessant defence of set pieces such as corners and free kicks with not a single blue shirt near the halfway line never mind past it, so if we get the ball and clear it, then lo and behold its coming right back again - has DM never fucking heard of counter attacking football?
The other and one which has stuck out like a sore thumb for some time is the constant "let's walk the ball through a crowded box into the net", surely we have at least one player out there who can put their bleeding laces through it from more than five yards? A hard shot into a crowded box might find the keeper unsighted or get a wicked deflection and into the net. Moyes needs to evolve as does his football.
Two things that still strike me and really get my goat though is this incessant defence of set pieces such as corners and free kicks with not a single blue shirt near the halfway line never mind past it, so if we get the ball and clear it, then lo and behold its coming right back again - has DM never fucking heard of counter attacking football?
The other and one which has stuck out like a sore thumb for some time is the constant "let's walk the ball through a crowded box into the net", surely we have at least one player out there who can put their bleeding laces through it from more than five yards? A hard shot into a crowded box might find the keeper unsighted or get a wicked deflection and into the net. Moyes needs to evolve as does his football.
I've noticed your modesty in other threads Leon. From what I can tell, we would be much better off sacking Moyes and bringing you in as player-manager!
Back in the real world, I think Blackpool will be a very interesting game. They are a team that seems happy to throw men forward to attack rather than park the bus. I sincerely hope we try and combat this by throwing men forward ourselves and letting our superiour quality win us the game. A negative, defensive display, looking to nick it 1-0 will not do Moyes any favours. There seems to be an increasing number of fans who are getting more and more frustrated by our more often than not negative tactics - whether we win or not.
Back in the real world, I think Blackpool will be a very interesting game. They are a team that seems happy to throw men forward to attack rather than park the bus. I sincerely hope we try and combat this by throwing men forward ourselves and letting our superiour quality win us the game. A negative, defensive display, looking to nick it 1-0 will not do Moyes any favours. There seems to be an increasing number of fans who are getting more and more frustrated by our more often than not negative tactics - whether we win or not.
Leon,
I think you're right, I wish Moyes would take some advice of an attacking nature, off whom I'm not sure.
But he has many qualities, and I would just love it if he could just push us over the edge.
There'sno doubt in my mind of his honesty, and integrity, just wish he had a bit more balls at times to really go for it.
Btw, played a bit myself, and would describe myself as a Van den Hauwe/Maradonna... some said Madonna, but I don't agree, although I do believe she scored more than me!
I think you're right, I wish Moyes would take some advice of an attacking nature, off whom I'm not sure.
But he has many qualities, and I would just love it if he could just push us over the edge.
There'sno doubt in my mind of his honesty, and integrity, just wish he had a bit more balls at times to really go for it.
Btw, played a bit myself, and would describe myself as a Van den Hauwe/Maradonna... some said Madonna, but I don't agree, although I do believe she scored more than me!
Gavin, you must not have watched yesterdays game then, there was an occasion when both Yak and Coleman stayed on the half way line for a corner.....I know!, I was shocked too but it was there for everyone to see.
Completely agree with your second point, I am sick and tired of screaming "Hit it" at the match. It especially grates when Arteta mentioned Round telling him to put his laces through it on free kicks last season...or the one before.
Completely agree with your second point, I am sick and tired of screaming "Hit it" at the match. It especially grates when Arteta mentioned Round telling him to put his laces through it on free kicks last season...or the one before.
Tony Williams - have we noticed the sheer amount of freekicks being smashed against the wall by arteta recently... perhaps we should politely remind round that arteta scored more freekicks the way baines does, ie bending it up and over the wall and into the corner... Not everyone is Ronaldo.
On a lighter note, my father always said to me 'a successful team is one which wins games when they play poorly.' i think this constitutes something along those lines. We play well and we win, we are happy. But to win a title, or even just finish high in the league, you have to win when you aren't playing well.
On a lighter note, my father always said to me 'a successful team is one which wins games when they play poorly.' i think this constitutes something along those lines. We play well and we win, we are happy. But to win a title, or even just finish high in the league, you have to win when you aren't playing well.
Kris, I agree but I as referring to shots from open play.
LEE-AAAAAAN, THE TOFFEEMEN OF EVERTON SIMPLY DID NOT GET THE YARDAGE AGAINST THE DEE-FENCE OF STOKE POTTERS. A LOT WAS EXPECTED OF COACH MOYES THIS SEASON AND THE TRUTH IS HE HAS NOT REALLY DELIVERED. THE ROOKIE COLEMAN SEEMED A LITTLE OVERAWED AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR A GREAT PLAY BY THE YAK THE FRIDGE, THE 41 YEAR OLD VETERAN OUT OF NIGERIA, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A WHOLE OTHER STORY. BASICALLY THE TOFFEES NEED TO PUT MORE INTO THEIR OFFENSIVE GAME AND THROW THAT DEE-FENSIVE MANUAL IN THE GARBAGE CAN...WHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Sorry watching the NFL on BBC 1 (The Mississippi Oven Chips - V - The Boston Loud Pants or..something like that)
Sorry watching the NFL on BBC 1 (The Mississippi Oven Chips - V - The Boston Loud Pants or..something like that)
Eugene - A near-perfect in-print example of NFL announcers.
Very funny. And accurate. We have the worst game announcers on earth. Especially the NFL.
Very funny. And accurate. We have the worst game announcers on earth. Especially the NFL.
I won't critizise people who dare to do it. I will however critizise people who can't help it but overdo their critizising beyond any reason.
I'm all for the middle ground between heaven and hell, because that is where we are at Everton right now.
I'm all for the middle ground between heaven and hell, because that is where we are at Everton right now.
As Paul (10) says, there's nothing wrong with a bit of criticism, it doesn't make you less off a fan than someone who won't have a bad word said about the club. My main criticism of Moyes has always been his substitutions, where he usually makes a like for like change, but on Saturday he finally went with 2 strikers when he brought Saha. I'm not saying 2 up front is the way forward, but it's good to mix things up against stubborn teams like Stoke.
Some good final league-positions of late have brought out citicism of supporters who dare to question our campaigns ? as though the ends justify the means... absolutely monstrous! The permanent Everton way is meandering ? sometimes we're up for it; sometimes not.
The fabled 10-season judgement period is approaching, predictably we are never league champions or cup-winners, and this is the rub: if Davey would just get someone in to talk attacking football, even on a short-term consultancy basis (say, four or five seasons), I reckon we'd do much better and be more entertaining...
The fabled 10-season judgement period is approaching, predictably we are never league champions or cup-winners, and this is the rub: if Davey would just get someone in to talk attacking football, even on a short-term consultancy basis (say, four or five seasons), I reckon we'd do much better and be more entertaining...
Sorry just read my own comment and it came across as much sarkier than I intended, you make some excellent points Leon.
forgot to say: Eugene, your post gave me a much-needed good laugh, nice one!
forgot to say: Eugene, your post gave me a much-needed good laugh, nice one!
4 points off 4th - MOYES OUT!
Ah but Nick, as Tony J Williams rightly pointed out to me on another post, we're also only 4pts off 18th ;)
Aim for the stars and you might just hit the moon Paul. We're not a club who look down the table but up.
There is a very good chance that we could be within touching distance of the top 4 should we win the next two very winnable games.
It is such a tight league between 4th and 18th right now, had it not been for a split second of madness by Tim Howard against Spurs, we would be above them in the league (and still shown last on MOTD)
It is such a tight league between 4th and 18th right now, had it not been for a split second of madness by Tim Howard against Spurs, we would be above them in the league (and still shown last on MOTD)
Nick, look to the stars for too long and you end up with pigeon shite in your eye.
Sounds proverby does that , do pigeons fly at night by the way?
Sounds proverby does that , do pigeons fly at night by the way?
Sensible criticism is fine, what grates with me is the criticism that appears after every game regardless of what happened in the game.
With the defence looking solid and us in a decent bit of form the thing we need to do now is keep this going until the January transfer window. If we are there or thereabouts around 5th,6th.7th, then surely our much maligned Board will be able to speculate to accumulate and bring in a couple of players to help us push for a really good finish.
The additional point I'd make is if handled correctly this idea could be a real winner for Moyes.
For example if he gets my doppelganger Cruyff to spend a week or so at Finch Farm, its big news; if it goes well Moyes looks a genius, a forward thinking Commander in Chief confident enough to bring in a world name without feeling under threat makes us look like we're the dog's parts.
If it goes tits up, Cruyff was a twat.
Jamie @ 4 I won't do player manager but if Moyes goes I would consider taking over if terms can be agreed. Presently I'm concentrating on my music.
For example if he gets my doppelganger Cruyff to spend a week or so at Finch Farm, its big news; if it goes well Moyes looks a genius, a forward thinking Commander in Chief confident enough to bring in a world name without feeling under threat makes us look like we're the dog's parts.
If it goes tits up, Cruyff was a twat.
Jamie @ 4 I won't do player manager but if Moyes goes I would consider taking over if terms can be agreed. Presently I'm concentrating on my music.
Leon, Funny that you mention Coleman, and Beckford, when they play they seem to be always looking towards the dugout area, as if they are waiting for instructions?
I may be wrong but I feel that especially Coleman, who has played more often is literally playing to orders, he does not look comortable to me.
I just feel that the boy is more at ease when going forward, and should be encouraged to have a pot, when the opportunity arises, he gets into some
clever positions, with defenders backing off, and hopefully Moyes will get him to be a bit more direct.
I may be wrong but I feel that especially Coleman, who has played more often is literally playing to orders, he does not look comortable to me.
I just feel that the boy is more at ease when going forward, and should be encouraged to have a pot, when the opportunity arises, he gets into some
clever positions, with defenders backing off, and hopefully Moyes will get him to be a bit more direct.
Experience has proved that whenever Davey tries to switch our style away from `Keep it tight and try to nick one`, our results go down the pan. As the ultimate guru on defensive play, he has virtually proved that you can play without so-called `strikers`. It may not always be exciting but none of us would want to sacrifice those 1-0 wins, surely?
As someone who might be considered negative I feel I must make the following point. I have never criticized a player. I have never given abuse to a player. It is pointless. What player ever has played better after stick from the crowd? I believe that all of the current squad are doing their best. Therefore I feel justified, when things go wrong, in criticizing the man who assembled and coaches them. What is wrong with that?
Doddy, how do you explain your Guru's ideas when we go a goal down? Not exactly going to "nick one" then is he? He has played without strikers in the past through necessity rather than choice too so not much of a Guru there either, 0 out of 10 try harder.
Richard, I just love the expression, so called strikers. Is this an attack on our current crop or just your philosophy on the game?
If Moyes had been the French Minister for defence in 1930, in 1940 the Germans would have penetrated the weak point of the heavily fortified (and previously thought of as impenetrable) 'Moyse Line' at Ardennes.
"those giving blind support to what's happening"
I don't think there are many of them.
The moaners often talk as if those who disagree with them think everything is fine. This often isn't the case, we just express our criticisms differently, and sometimes not at all.
I don't think there are many of them.
The moaners often talk as if those who disagree with them think everything is fine. This often isn't the case, we just express our criticisms differently, and sometimes not at all.
Careful Mike, you will get blamed for all the evils that afflict Everton. The usual "It's fans like you" mantra is prevalent on here.
Just read your main post...here's the rub for you. It's Moyse who should be picking the formation, it's moyse who should be picking the team and putting players in the positions they are strongest in.
Moyse doesn't do that, no he doesn't. Instead he has to play everyone out of position and give him more than 11 players he is absolutely clueless what to do with them.
At the end of the day, everything Everton do on the pitch is down to Moyse. He needs to learn tactics, he needs to learn how to change things when we aren't doing so well or when things have become stale...change things so we can win. Learn that attacking football wins matches, not shitting yourself back in defense and getting battered by a bottom of div 1 side..i will never ever forgive him for that.
Sorry Leon, In the defense of Everton Football club and the NSNO moniker, he simply isn't good enough to manage our team.
He has had nearly 9 years in charge and nothing changes..we are still nowhere near winning anything apart from spells in a loony bin with the way the team are currently playing.
he has to go, it's upto fat bill to find a suitable replacement not us. End of.
Moyse doesn't do that, no he doesn't. Instead he has to play everyone out of position and give him more than 11 players he is absolutely clueless what to do with them.
At the end of the day, everything Everton do on the pitch is down to Moyse. He needs to learn tactics, he needs to learn how to change things when we aren't doing so well or when things have become stale...change things so we can win. Learn that attacking football wins matches, not shitting yourself back in defense and getting battered by a bottom of div 1 side..i will never ever forgive him for that.
Sorry Leon, In the defense of Everton Football club and the NSNO moniker, he simply isn't good enough to manage our team.
He has had nearly 9 years in charge and nothing changes..we are still nowhere near winning anything apart from spells in a loony bin with the way the team are currently playing.
he has to go, it's upto fat bill to find a suitable replacement not us. End of.
Honestly, some of you lot could not see a priest in a mountain of sugar.
Ernie after 9 years you may want to learn how to spell our manager's name.
Ernie McAllister
You have your way of looking at things with your defense, me, I have mine and am happy that we are making progress even if we are more inclined with our defence!!
Before Moyes we were about ready for relegation and obscurity, now with him we still have the opportunity to fight on.
You have your way of looking at things with your defense, me, I have mine and am happy that we are making progress even if we are more inclined with our defence!!
Before Moyes we were about ready for relegation and obscurity, now with him we still have the opportunity to fight on.
While we are on the subject of things the team does not do the big one for me is One Touch Passing.
Now the team has little pace in it most fans recognise this so in order to move the opposition defence out of position why not try passing it quicker.
Nobody in the side hits the ball or passes first time except Bilyaletdinov and occasionaly Pienaar.
There was a moment against Stoke when Baines and Pienaar exchanged passes Baines was free Stoke where at sixes and sevens Baines fires the ball across and Arteta takes a touch to control the ball and then is closed down just before he shoots and the chance was gone.
Now the team has little pace in it most fans recognise this so in order to move the opposition defence out of position why not try passing it quicker.
Nobody in the side hits the ball or passes first time except Bilyaletdinov and occasionaly Pienaar.
There was a moment against Stoke when Baines and Pienaar exchanged passes Baines was free Stoke where at sixes and sevens Baines fires the ball across and Arteta takes a touch to control the ball and then is closed down just before he shoots and the chance was gone.
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1 Posted 31/10/2010 at 21:45:16
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It's one thing saying we are not an attacking team but it's a completely other thing when in fact we just don't have the goalscorer that £30m these days can buy.
Also it's obviously tit for tat Leon, the doomsayers were out in force after 4 games calling for the managers head and slating every single player on the pitch. If they can do it, why can't the opposite faction do it too?
10 games gone, we are 2 points from a Europe spot, 4 from the Champions league.....yeah it's grey skies all the way fella!!