The Mail Bag
Protests against Green's companies
Comments (46)
It may have missed quite a few people's radar this weekend but yet again the shady figure of Sir Philip Green was in the national media spotlight over his tax avoidance techniques. His shady character hinted at and his ongoing tax avoidance in the UK, a similar protest against Vodafone did have an effect as intimated in this article from The Guardian
Maybe it's time to start a viral protest against the current regime and whats happening or are we all that subservient we'll stay sat on our hands again?
Gavin Ramejkis, Posted 05/12/2010 at 09:32:38
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We'll never find out the truth until one of them dies. Whether it be Bill, Phillip or Robert. How old are they?
Chris, he doesn't have to be 'officially' on the board to have influence.
The details of Philip Green's relationship with EFC will become transparent when he no longer has a vested interest.
So here we are... waiting for Philip Green to die.
So here we are... waiting for Philip Green to die.
I thought Sir Phillip Carter was an 'Honary Life President'? Is this just a guesture or does he have a role in our Boardroom?
Gavin, we'll stay sat on our hands because as Evertonians we will accept every bit of shit that comes our way and saviour the slightest crumb that is thrown to us.
Andy ? You appear to be very passionate about this issue, why dont you lead a protest group and motivate the apathetic Evertonians that you scorn. I am sure once your style of leadership is conveyed, most Evertonians will gladly follow you.
Hugh,
You beat me to the punch. I mentioned this to David O'Keefe a few weeks back when he was talking about protests.
Andy / Gavin / David,
If you feel so passionate about this then why don't you start a protest yourself? If you don't are you not doing exactly what you are accusing other everton fans of doing "we'll stay sat on our hands again" and "Evertonians we will accept every bit of shit that comes our way and saviour the slightest crumb that is thrown to us."
You beat me to the punch. I mentioned this to David O'Keefe a few weeks back when he was talking about protests.
Andy / Gavin / David,
If you feel so passionate about this then why don't you start a protest yourself? If you don't are you not doing exactly what you are accusing other everton fans of doing "we'll stay sat on our hands again" and "Evertonians we will accept every bit of shit that comes our way and saviour the slightest crumb that is thrown to us."
Green is doing whats right for him - in the same circumstances, and with the same huge financial benefits available, you'd do the same. What exactly tax evasion has to do with EFC though is beyond me.
Unless Green acknowledges to some shareholding in Everton, it's none of our business, and even then, I'm not entirely bothered. I'd rather charm him into coming out and taking proper control ? rather a self-made billionaire owner than a lying, devious luvvie.
"I'd rather charm him into coming out and taking proper control ? rather a self-made billionaire owner than a lying, devious luvvie."
I'd have to agree with this. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't actually done anything illegal (although some of it should be).
The thing about shady characters is that they tend to be good at what they do. They have to be to avoid getting locked up or going bankrupt.
I'd have to agree with this. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't actually done anything illegal (although some of it should be).
The thing about shady characters is that they tend to be good at what they do. They have to be to avoid getting locked up or going bankrupt.
There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion ? sometimes a very small difference; however, if you could reduce your tax bill then wouldn't you do it? ? most people would.
What about the Premier League? Arsenal have found a loophole to reduce tax liabilities for their players by using offshore registered companies.
It's not the individuals making the most of these pathetic tax laws that you should be concerned with but moreso the lawmakers themselves.
What about the Premier League? Arsenal have found a loophole to reduce tax liabilities for their players by using offshore registered companies.
It's not the individuals making the most of these pathetic tax laws that you should be concerned with but moreso the lawmakers themselves.
I think the term that tends to be used is "tax efficient".
Good luck to him ? let's face it, he took three or four has-been, legacy brands and made a great job of them. Come to think of it, we aren't far from that description.
There we have it, a new clarion call. Green for Goodison..... Billy, the black cab is on its way.
Quote from Nick Clegg "I don't think it is right socially to be indifferent to industrial-scale tax avoidance."
Source - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1313924/Clegg-attacks-tax-dodgers-employ-army-lawyers-bankers-paid-ludicrous-bonuses.html
Does this not represent all that is wrong with Britain and the founders of the game of football. Anyone heard of Lord Denning?
http://www.keioc.net/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=278&cntnt01returnid=85
I'm off to watch Erin Brockovich. http://www.brockovich.com
Source - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1313924/Clegg-attacks-tax-dodgers-employ-army-lawyers-bankers-paid-ludicrous-bonuses.html
Does this not represent all that is wrong with Britain and the founders of the game of football. Anyone heard of Lord Denning?
http://www.keioc.net/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=278&cntnt01returnid=85
I'm off to watch Erin Brockovich. http://www.brockovich.com
I agree with Matt Bone in that it's the law-makers rather than individuals who should redress unfair tax avoidance. It is they, after all, who are in theory accountable to an electorate. In reality, on the other hand, they are only accountable to themselves and a mega rich elite who have the influence (money) to persuade them.
That said, I wouldn't complain about Philip Green if he actually INVESTED in the club. But he doesn't. His influence on the club is as clear as mud.
That said, I wouldn't complain about Philip Green if he actually INVESTED in the club. But he doesn't. His influence on the club is as clear as mud.
From what I've heard, he's saved £68 million in tax by registering the company off shore so to speak; good for him, big deal. Illegal? No, good work, carry on.
Top flight football is a mug's game. Players and agents bleed the whole thing dry and most clubs give in to their demands.
I have no idea about our current board other than that they do not seem to have access to millions and millions to spend on even more highly paid players.
We seem to want an egotistical, rich idiot to blow a load of cash for no return other than his picture in the paper, surrounded by the grateful peasants who make up the fan base.
I don't think that we or any other club should play that game. I don't care how many show ponies we import, football has been turned into a 'made for TV' product and it gets worse by the season.
I have no idea about our current board other than that they do not seem to have access to millions and millions to spend on even more highly paid players.
We seem to want an egotistical, rich idiot to blow a load of cash for no return other than his picture in the paper, surrounded by the grateful peasants who make up the fan base.
I don't think that we or any other club should play that game. I don't care how many show ponies we import, football has been turned into a 'made for TV' product and it gets worse by the season.
David Thomas: I tried to start a protest against the board in 2008 ? that's what I did. The editor will back me up on this issue as he did publish my call to action.
I also don't know why you're making an issue of this as you don't believe in holding the board to account, but you're demanding that other people do it for you, while sneering at those that complain and do nothing ? very strange. I will deliver that article on fans protests, but contrary to popular belief I have a life outside Everton forums that thankfully gets in the way of these debates.
Gavin, if you're interested start one, I will be more than happy to assist. On that point, DT is correct, but I fear you will be disappointed by the response.
I also don't know why you're making an issue of this as you don't believe in holding the board to account, but you're demanding that other people do it for you, while sneering at those that complain and do nothing ? very strange. I will deliver that article on fans protests, but contrary to popular belief I have a life outside Everton forums that thankfully gets in the way of these debates.
Gavin, if you're interested start one, I will be more than happy to assist. On that point, DT is correct, but I fear you will be disappointed by the response.
How many people work for him, pay tax on their earnings and how much employer NI contributions does he make? Pointless article on what is supposed to be a football website.
Chris, I don't read Matt's reference to lawmakers to be regarding leaving it to them to sort out the tax dodgers. I think he's pointing out that the lawmakers are also tax dodgers themselves, and expense fiddlers to boot, which is also taxpayers money.
I feel a toffee-leaks whistle blowing site in the making?!
I saw the protest on Saturday, Gavin. I'm not convinced a group of 15/20 pressganged and quite likely ill informed 15-20-year-olds with no conception of the UK's largely over-complicated tax system were trying to achieve. It took me about 5 minutes to understand what they were chanting before I realised their cause.
As many comment on here, it's for the legislature to amend the system, otherwise you will discover Mr Green, and more importatly his wife, are acting within the law, and if later discovered to be not, will be in a large part due to the over-complicated tax system I refer to. HMRC will no doubt be completely awae of these arrangements, will likely have sanctioned some elements of it given the UK listings of his companies.
This is a non-story and I'm not sure what relevence it has with EFC as if Mr Green, is or is not an 'inverstor'... which I personally doubt, surely we would want him to protect his assets and maximise his revenues?
And for any right wing Evertonian Christian groups, please do your homework on offshore financial centres, by using FATF, Transparency International etc., most of the OECD's 'White List' jurisdictions have better IMF Financial Stability reports and legislation to address money laundering and tax evasion than many EU countries and the rest of the developed world.
Nick (15) - got to be wind up comment.
Simon (18) - so what. All employers across the UK are faced with the same rules from the small builder who takes on a helper to an independent retailer who has a few staff. The collective small UK businesses pay their dues and keep this country going whilst charlatans get away with it.
The article is not pointless if he is shown to have been a shadow director at EFC (or any other business for that matter) for a few years and hence should have to pay tax on all earning during that time.
Neil (12) - no way will he personally be named as owner of anything in the UK as this would adversely affect industrial scale tax evasion.
Simon (18) - so what. All employers across the UK are faced with the same rules from the small builder who takes on a helper to an independent retailer who has a few staff. The collective small UK businesses pay their dues and keep this country going whilst charlatans get away with it.
The article is not pointless if he is shown to have been a shadow director at EFC (or any other business for that matter) for a few years and hence should have to pay tax on all earning during that time.
Neil (12) - no way will he personally be named as owner of anything in the UK as this would adversely affect industrial scale tax evasion.
If Philip Green is tax avoiding, is that why he is/was able to supply Bill Kenwright and/or Everton with money?
Was the loan that he has supplied/underwritten come from his British account or an offshore account?
Is this why, rumour has it, he was able put the money up for Robert Earls shares from Paul Gregg? And from which of his accounts did this money come from?
When the club and/or Bill Kenwright come to give Philip Green his money back, will it be paid into Philip Greens British account (and taxable) or paid into one of his offshore accounts (and not taxable??)?
I think this story about Philip Green is very much in the interests of Everton.
Was the loan that he has supplied/underwritten come from his British account or an offshore account?
Is this why, rumour has it, he was able put the money up for Robert Earls shares from Paul Gregg? And from which of his accounts did this money come from?
When the club and/or Bill Kenwright come to give Philip Green his money back, will it be paid into Philip Greens British account (and taxable) or paid into one of his offshore accounts (and not taxable??)?
I think this story about Philip Green is very much in the interests of Everton.
Andrew: "Press-ganged 15-20-year-olds" ? you're doing them a disservice. If we're all in this together then the likes of Green should pay his taxes. I think you're the uninformed one, they're no tax experts, but they know the meaning of hypocrisy.
Andrew MacKenzie ? Who cares which offshore financial centres have the best IMF reports? I think that point was more vainglorious than useful. The Breton Woods Institutions, OECD, EC etc are the high water mark of the democratic deficit in that typifies "developed" world. (I won't even go into the developing world, so-called.) That's the problem with people like Green.
Wow, a business man that can run rings around the government, can run a multi-million pound business, employs thousands of people, and some people are complaining that he has undue influence? If only Green had more influence then the club would be run properly.
David O'Keefe 17,
I am not demanding anyone does anything. It was a simple question to the people who have brought up the concept of protesting against members of the board and Green etc of ? If they feel so passionate about this matter why don't they start a protest themselves?
With regards your protest of 2008. Why did it fail in your opinion?
I am not demanding anyone does anything. It was a simple question to the people who have brought up the concept of protesting against members of the board and Green etc of ? If they feel so passionate about this matter why don't they start a protest themselves?
With regards your protest of 2008. Why did it fail in your opinion?
Tony l'Anson, since this has now become political, where do you think the money that now needs to be raised to get us out of this mess will come from? ? THE PRIVATE SECTOR!
Yes Simon, from the private sector.
Aye, the private sector... led by the banks. lol
It's odd that so many aren't bothered by Green's meddling/control over Everton. As far as the tax avoidance goes it runs to over a billion, the company is registered in his wife's name so he doesn't pay tax then the tories employ him as some form of expert on how to get more tax? Fucking hypocrisy, same way that the non-domiciles in the house of Lords do exactly the same.
Green reportedly paid for Gregg's shares, he was reputedly one of the prime drivers behind the potentially disastrous retail driven abhorrence which was desperation Kirkby yet once that was dead in the water not one more loan has been made to purchase players and every new player has come from sales of existing squad members ? how long do you think that can continue before it impacts the team?
The bonuses for the lower paid staff at Green's shops are barely in line with the national minimum wage of about £5. You get the same old shite arguments from the tories about why they don't chase these thieves down and you get the same old tired responses of what the country would lose, oddly they have already lost over a billion in tax to him yet it's a good thing.
The economy of Britain is still tied to helping the uber rich and fucking over the less wealthy; the bail out of Ireland as a prime example because RBS has billions of toxic debt tied up in it. Yet still not one fraudulent banker or financier jailed, why? Keep doffing your caps and being grateful for what small mercies and scraps are thrown your way.
Green reportedly paid for Gregg's shares, he was reputedly one of the prime drivers behind the potentially disastrous retail driven abhorrence which was desperation Kirkby yet once that was dead in the water not one more loan has been made to purchase players and every new player has come from sales of existing squad members ? how long do you think that can continue before it impacts the team?
The bonuses for the lower paid staff at Green's shops are barely in line with the national minimum wage of about £5. You get the same old shite arguments from the tories about why they don't chase these thieves down and you get the same old tired responses of what the country would lose, oddly they have already lost over a billion in tax to him yet it's a good thing.
The economy of Britain is still tied to helping the uber rich and fucking over the less wealthy; the bail out of Ireland as a prime example because RBS has billions of toxic debt tied up in it. Yet still not one fraudulent banker or financier jailed, why? Keep doffing your caps and being grateful for what small mercies and scraps are thrown your way.
Well said, comrade Ramejkis. Given the arctic conditions we are experiencing here, I feel like I'm living in Siberia.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being very rich. But with great wealth, comes great responsibility.
In my view, all the non-doms should be reigned in tomorrow to sort out the debt crisis this country is in. And maybe then we can go back to looking at football as a form of entertainment for the people who invented this great game.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being very rich. But with great wealth, comes great responsibility.
In my view, all the non-doms should be reigned in tomorrow to sort out the debt crisis this country is in. And maybe then we can go back to looking at football as a form of entertainment for the people who invented this great game.
Ray(26), Green is a fisherman. Everton FC are his big fat worm.
And all he is interested in is landing another great big fish of a retail development in areas that would have no chance of getting through the planning process. Allegedly.
It really is that simple.
And all he is interested in is landing another great big fish of a retail development in areas that would have no chance of getting through the planning process. Allegedly.
It really is that simple.
David Thomas: I dealt with it at the time and I will not answer any more questions from you on this matter. My point still stands; you have adopted a very strange position re: protests.
David O'Keefe: No problem. Your failure to answer the question about your protest tells me everything I need to know.
Dave Thomas,
Why are you trying to mock a loyal fan's right to question the board, by way of protests?
Green and Earl, and Billy Liar are squeezing the life blood out of Everton.
And most all of us do is sit on our hands, but some don't, and David O'Keefe at least has the bollocks to protest. If it wasnt for the likes of him, you and I would be sat in a half-empty cowshed in Kirkby most Saturdays, with only a trolley dash at half-time to keep us occupied, The Green Shield Stamp stadium, or whatever, Planet Tesco!
So do us a favour, get off his back, and stop mocking true Evertonians.
Why are you trying to mock a loyal fan's right to question the board, by way of protests?
Green and Earl, and Billy Liar are squeezing the life blood out of Everton.
And most all of us do is sit on our hands, but some don't, and David O'Keefe at least has the bollocks to protest. If it wasnt for the likes of him, you and I would be sat in a half-empty cowshed in Kirkby most Saturdays, with only a trolley dash at half-time to keep us occupied, The Green Shield Stamp stadium, or whatever, Planet Tesco!
So do us a favour, get off his back, and stop mocking true Evertonians.
Sorry, David (#24) and Keith (#25), you are missing the point: no crime has been committed and both Mr and Mrs Green are acting well within the law. As I said, what this has to do with EFC is neither here nor there.
Sadly not misinformed, and I don't believe there is any hypocrisy... the 'uber' wealthy res non doms I know pay more indirect tax in one month than the average person (including Saturday's protesters) will pay in a lifetime... don't get me started on the UK's pending 50% rate!
Meanwhile, back on Planet ToffeeWeb...!
"Why are you trying to mock a loyal fan's right to question the board, by way of protests?"
Robert,
I hardly think by asking David O'Keefe to give us his opinion on why his protest in 2008 failed is mocking him?
Robert,
I hardly think by asking David O'Keefe to give us his opinion on why his protest in 2008 failed is mocking him?
David Thomas: Why don't you trawl the TW archives? I think you're trying to embarrass me.
Andrew: Is that suppose to make me feel better? How about we discuss the proportion of income each socio-economic group pays tax? Do you complain about benefit recipients at all?
I don't care if its legal its not just.
Andrew are you on a wind-up?
Andrew: Is that suppose to make me feel better? How about we discuss the proportion of income each socio-economic group pays tax? Do you complain about benefit recipients at all?
I don't care if its legal its not just.
Andrew are you on a wind-up?
David,
I presume it failed, because people like you, and I for that matter, didn't do enough. It sounds like you're mocking him, instead of saying, "Well done, at least you tried." ? If that's not your intention, say so.
Billy Liar has managed to take the protest out of us for now... But it won't continue forever, the quicker he's gone, the better ? dont you agree? No other big club would put up with his performance as a chairman, and at one time we wouldn't.
Dave O'Keefe ? Next time you organise a protest, let me know, I have many friends and family members, me included, who would join in!
And keep up the good work.
I presume it failed, because people like you, and I for that matter, didn't do enough. It sounds like you're mocking him, instead of saying, "Well done, at least you tried." ? If that's not your intention, say so.
Billy Liar has managed to take the protest out of us for now... But it won't continue forever, the quicker he's gone, the better ? dont you agree? No other big club would put up with his performance as a chairman, and at one time we wouldn't.
Dave O'Keefe ? Next time you organise a protest, let me know, I have many friends and family members, me included, who would join in!
And keep up the good work.
Robert,
Maybe, just maybe, it failed because, contrary to popular belief on this website, a large percentage of match going Evertonians don't feel there is a need to protest against the board. It might not be your opinion but maybe it is the opinion of a significant number of Evertonians ? hence the lack of impact David's 2008 protest made.
Maybe, just maybe, it failed because, contrary to popular belief on this website, a large percentage of match going Evertonians don't feel there is a need to protest against the board. It might not be your opinion but maybe it is the opinion of a significant number of Evertonians ? hence the lack of impact David's 2008 protest made.
There's no question the Goodison crowd is loath to protest too much. Look at the pathetic response when KEIOC had their call to arms.
Most Evertonians are there to watch the football and a significant percentage, I believe, have either no knowledge of or no interest in the issues that could be protested.
Most Evertonians are there to watch the football and a significant percentage, I believe, have either no knowledge of or no interest in the issues that could be protested.
David,
Are you on fuckin glue?
There might be a lack of people who will protest, but I can assure you, when I go the game, every fucker I speak to knows our board are shite... SHITE!
You're not seriously trying to defend them are you?
Get a grip man.
Are you on fuckin glue?
There might be a lack of people who will protest, but I can assure you, when I go the game, every fucker I speak to knows our board are shite... SHITE!
You're not seriously trying to defend them are you?
Get a grip man.
Robert,
I just find it funny that in the last 5-10 years there has been no protests against the board at any Everton, match home or away. Or if there has been they must have been silent protests because I have never heard or seen them and I travel to watch Everton home and away every week.
I just find it funny that in the last 5-10 years there has been no protests against the board at any Everton, match home or away. Or if there has been they must have been silent protests because I have never heard or seen them and I travel to watch Everton home and away every week.
Now if everyone or nearly everyone thought there was a reason to protest against the board, you would surely have thought there would have been some level of protest throughout these years ? even taking into consideration the people who may share that viewpoint but don't want to get involved in protests.
David,
There have been protests, not least by KEIOC. During the time of the decision over Kirkby, I was in an altercation (if you can call it that) with Billy Liar, outside the park end. I only wanted to ask him why? Why not redevelop Goodison instead?
The security around Kenwright at that time was on a par with the Pope's last visit, I kid you not. He was obviously worried for his safety, and had at least 25 security guards around him. Fact.
He's actualy quite aggresive, when he wants to be; there was no sign of the luvvie then, I can tell you.
You can take the Luvvie out of Liverpool, but you can't take Liverpool out of the Luvvie! if you get my drift.
Anyway, David, there has been protests, as there always is, against chairman, managers, etc, and there always will be. The fact that they haven't reached Agent Johnson proportions (YET!) is because he is, or has, a good spin doctor.
When Chelsea got Roman, and now City with the Arabs, this only makes him look good; it's his escape, how can we compete? Well, it's a myth. In the last 20 years, I believe, Chelsea and City, for all their millions have 3 titles between them. Arsenal were on a par with us when Bullshit Billy took over, they never got a billionaire, they had a wage structure, just like us. United are in debt, they too were on a par with us!
Bullshit Billy has never done anything for this club, he has made us a small club in the eyes of the media. Them last two teams have won every other title since 1992, apart from the three Chelsea ones.
You don't need a billionaire, you just need a good business man, a man of foresight.
There have been protests, not least by KEIOC. During the time of the decision over Kirkby, I was in an altercation (if you can call it that) with Billy Liar, outside the park end. I only wanted to ask him why? Why not redevelop Goodison instead?
The security around Kenwright at that time was on a par with the Pope's last visit, I kid you not. He was obviously worried for his safety, and had at least 25 security guards around him. Fact.
He's actualy quite aggresive, when he wants to be; there was no sign of the luvvie then, I can tell you.
You can take the Luvvie out of Liverpool, but you can't take Liverpool out of the Luvvie! if you get my drift.
Anyway, David, there has been protests, as there always is, against chairman, managers, etc, and there always will be. The fact that they haven't reached Agent Johnson proportions (YET!) is because he is, or has, a good spin doctor.
When Chelsea got Roman, and now City with the Arabs, this only makes him look good; it's his escape, how can we compete? Well, it's a myth. In the last 20 years, I believe, Chelsea and City, for all their millions have 3 titles between them. Arsenal were on a par with us when Bullshit Billy took over, they never got a billionaire, they had a wage structure, just like us. United are in debt, they too were on a par with us!
Bullshit Billy has never done anything for this club, he has made us a small club in the eyes of the media. Them last two teams have won every other title since 1992, apart from the three Chelsea ones.
You don't need a billionaire, you just need a good business man, a man of foresight.
Robert,
I have never seen any protests at the match before or after, ie songs / banners / people staying outside when the game kicks off or people staying behind after the game etc etc. Maybe you could give an example of a particular game when there was a prolonged protest?
"Them last two teams have won every other title since 1992, apart from the three Chelsea ones" ? I think there might be a few people at Ewood Park who might have something to say about that.
"Arsenal were on a par with us when Bullshit Billy took over, they never got a billionaire, they had a wage structure, just like us. United are in debt, they too were on a par with us!". When you say took over what exactly do you mean? Do you mean when he took over as chairman? If so, how were we on par with Man U and Arsenal when Bill took over? As you state yourself those two teams had been winning the majority of titles for the last ten years before Kenwright took over the club.
I have never seen any protests at the match before or after, ie songs / banners / people staying outside when the game kicks off or people staying behind after the game etc etc. Maybe you could give an example of a particular game when there was a prolonged protest?
"Them last two teams have won every other title since 1992, apart from the three Chelsea ones" ? I think there might be a few people at Ewood Park who might have something to say about that.
"Arsenal were on a par with us when Bullshit Billy took over, they never got a billionaire, they had a wage structure, just like us. United are in debt, they too were on a par with us!". When you say took over what exactly do you mean? Do you mean when he took over as chairman? If so, how were we on par with Man U and Arsenal when Bill took over? As you state yourself those two teams had been winning the majority of titles for the last ten years before Kenwright took over the club.
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1 Posted 05/12/2010 at 15:46:48
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If there was ever a protest at the running and lack of finances at the club then it should be aimed at Bill Kenwright and the other directors.