The Mail Bag
Cahill dilema
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I'm one of Cahill's biggest fans... but, barring any injuries, if Moyes persists with the starting 11 that lined up against Spurs, and it does well, when Cahill returns ? Does he go straight back into the side? ? as mentioned by one of the lads on here.
I've mentioned a few times on here how slow we have looked getting forward, and that seemed to be the pattern most games: no pace, sideways passing, no urgency ? all games Cahill has been involved in.
The other night, though, when we broke away, it was done with blinding pace, the movement off the ball was excellent, at times it looked like we had more than 11 on the pitch.
I know some will point to the fact that Spurs allow you to play like that, because they are so open, but I think it's more than that, the other night, there was a fluidity to our play, and the team looked balanced.
So... does Cahill walk back into the starting 11, just because he is our leading goalscorer???
Brian Waring, Posted 07/01/2011 at 08:33:28
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apologies I mean priority wide right player. d'oh
The same can be asked of Jagielka. If Heitinga is on his way then so be it, if not, as much as I like Jags, I thought we were better equipped (against Spurs) when we played the ball out of defence than when we hoof it out......and we all know thats Jagielka's biggest failings. (As well as the own goals!)
if we are playing well, then no Cahill does not walk back into the team. No player should be guaranteed a place in team if teh one out there is playing well.
Big IF.
As for Jags. I would much rather have Heitinga in the team than Jags.
Big IF.
As for Jags. I would much rather have Heitinga in the team than Jags.
Brian I think this is a question a lot of Evertonians will have been asking themselves over the past 2 days, however is this just another small high in a season of complete letdowns? The Man Utd comback, City away for example.
Brian in relation to Cahill, as good as we were the other night we still are not gona play 442 in each remaining game to the end of the saeson. This still is Moyes we are talking about & the only reason we played with 2 up top the other night was because Moyes hand was forced. If there was no Asia cup would we be having this conversation? I think not.
Look I hope Moyes does stick with the 442 for the rest of the season & if so I say play Saha with Cahill up Top. We cannot laeve out the Top scoring midfild player in the PL & Cahill has been outstanding so far.
If we win our next 4 on the trot without Cahill however...... Now that would be a nice problem to have.
Brian in relation to Cahill, as good as we were the other night we still are not gona play 442 in each remaining game to the end of the saeson. This still is Moyes we are talking about & the only reason we played with 2 up top the other night was because Moyes hand was forced. If there was no Asia cup would we be having this conversation? I think not.
Look I hope Moyes does stick with the 442 for the rest of the season & if so I say play Saha with Cahill up Top. We cannot laeve out the Top scoring midfild player in the PL & Cahill has been outstanding so far.
If we win our next 4 on the trot without Cahill however...... Now that would be a nice problem to have.
I think the difference has been because we played two recognised strikers, as opposed to one attacking midfielder.
The problem should be how do you accomodate Cahill in midfield when you play two strikers
The problem should be how do you accomodate Cahill in midfield when you play two strikers
Thats the thing Christine, I actually think the reason Saha looked so much better, was because he was playing with another striker, who had good pace and movement.
Brian, with you on your first paragraph.
As my little lad always says to me
" We are talking about Moyes here "
So much wisdom, for a lad of 12!
Brian, with you on your first paragraph.
As my little lad always says to me
" We are talking about Moyes here "
So much wisdom, for a lad of 12!
After a number of injuries and needless consecutive bans for Fella and Arteta, Moyes was able to put easily our most productive pairing on the pitch at the same time. That's why we were more fluent.
Our captain finally decided not only to support Seamus but on a number of occasions even went past him. This finally gave Seamus the opportunity to run at a full back who didn't know whether to stick or bust. This is why we looked more balanced.
Only the names changed up top, the formation didn't... and, unless Beckford can learn to control his nerves in front of goal, I would expect Cahill to move straight back in where Saha played against Spurs and Saha to move on to the shoulder of the last man ? not his game.
Beckford has to take this chance, I don't see another Prem club offering him a contract if he doesn't...
Our captain finally decided not only to support Seamus but on a number of occasions even went past him. This finally gave Seamus the opportunity to run at a full back who didn't know whether to stick or bust. This is why we looked more balanced.
Only the names changed up top, the formation didn't... and, unless Beckford can learn to control his nerves in front of goal, I would expect Cahill to move straight back in where Saha played against Spurs and Saha to move on to the shoulder of the last man ? not his game.
Beckford has to take this chance, I don't see another Prem club offering him a contract if he doesn't...
Brian Murphy:
a 4-4-2 with Cahill up front is what we have been playing all season... and it quickly resembles a 4-5-1.
a 4-4-2 with Cahill up front is what we have been playing all season... and it quickly resembles a 4-5-1.
Fran
I mean Cahill should stay right up top and not fall back into the midfield as you rightly point out has been happening all season.
I have really tried to warm to Beckford & would love if he (or Yak) put his hand up for role up front. However looking at him this year even with his limited opportunities he just dosent seem to cut it as this level. Cahill is also a true blue & gives it his all each & everytime he pulls on the shirt which cant be siad for a lot of the first team this year.
I mean Cahill should stay right up top and not fall back into the midfield as you rightly point out has been happening all season.
I have really tried to warm to Beckford & would love if he (or Yak) put his hand up for role up front. However looking at him this year even with his limited opportunities he just dosent seem to cut it as this level. Cahill is also a true blue & gives it his all each & everytime he pulls on the shirt which cant be siad for a lot of the first team this year.
What I would dearly like to know is why DM does'nt give Vaughan a run out. He is potentially what we need and I think more composed in front of goal than Beckford. Alongside Saha he could be deadly or does'nt anyone agree with that assessment ?
cahill will always drop back into his natural role. hes been a midfielder for about 15 years now. he will always drop back.
Same as when you stick a centre mid out wide, they will always drift inside.
Also, Cahill doesn't have the pace to be a forward. It needs to be Beckford if we don't sign anyone, as he has pace and movement, which the forward line needs (lots of nifty passing in the middle, but no-one to pass to in the final 30).
So Cahill and Saha upfront, only in a 4-4-1-1 situation. If 4-4-2 (if it continues) works over the next 5 games then Cahill does not walk into the team (in my opinion, I actually think he will just waltz back in and we will revert to 4-5-1/4-4-1-1/4-1-4-1 or however it was pre-january)
Same as when you stick a centre mid out wide, they will always drift inside.
Also, Cahill doesn't have the pace to be a forward. It needs to be Beckford if we don't sign anyone, as he has pace and movement, which the forward line needs (lots of nifty passing in the middle, but no-one to pass to in the final 30).
So Cahill and Saha upfront, only in a 4-4-1-1 situation. If 4-4-2 (if it continues) works over the next 5 games then Cahill does not walk into the team (in my opinion, I actually think he will just waltz back in and we will revert to 4-5-1/4-4-1-1/4-1-4-1 or however it was pre-january)
You could also say Arteta, even if he did play better against Spurs to me he still went sideways and not forward.
Similar to the thread after the Spurs game, DM needs to realise there are different flavours than 4-5-1 and he should realise in some games Cahill behind the striker as a midfielder will be better than other games where two strikers will be a better move.
I love Cahill for his never say never die attitude and his record against the RS but there will be some games were he would be better as a sub to change the formation.
Similar to the thread after the Spurs game, DM needs to realise there are different flavours than 4-5-1 and he should realise in some games Cahill behind the striker as a midfielder will be better than other games where two strikers will be a better move.
I love Cahill for his never say never die attitude and his record against the RS but there will be some games were he would be better as a sub to change the formation.
spot-on gavin.
I too would like to see Arteta dropped, with Bily in his position. If we play 4-4-2 and need a goalscorer from midfield, I think Bily is the man.
If anything, I want to see Bily play. So at least we know whether to cut our losses or whether he has something to offer.
I too would like to see Arteta dropped, with Bily in his position. If we play 4-4-2 and need a goalscorer from midfield, I think Bily is the man.
If anything, I want to see Bily play. So at least we know whether to cut our losses or whether he has something to offer.
Fran
if we are playing well, then no Cahill does not walk back into the team. No player should be guaranteed a place in team if teh one out there is playing well.
Big IF
----------
aye, that's about right.
What's been little mentioned is that Spurs always attack, attack, attack. And as Moyes said post-interview that will leave holes to exploit. So this gung ho worked vs Spurs, against some teams the dynamic will be different.
We shouldn't get carried away with one game. It may have been a one-off or due to it being Spurs and not some team that parks the bus, and then counter-attacks.
But, if it is working, we will stick to it, even if that means Cahill on the bench. I do not doubt that. The position we are in with so many bloody draws, we need to take risks.
But even if that happens, for some games we will want Cahill. What a nightmare decision it would be if before the Derby.
if we are playing well, then no Cahill does not walk back into the team. No player should be guaranteed a place in team if teh one out there is playing well.
Big IF
----------
aye, that's about right.
What's been little mentioned is that Spurs always attack, attack, attack. And as Moyes said post-interview that will leave holes to exploit. So this gung ho worked vs Spurs, against some teams the dynamic will be different.
We shouldn't get carried away with one game. It may have been a one-off or due to it being Spurs and not some team that parks the bus, and then counter-attacks.
But, if it is working, we will stick to it, even if that means Cahill on the bench. I do not doubt that. The position we are in with so many bloody draws, we need to take risks.
But even if that happens, for some games we will want Cahill. What a nightmare decision it would be if before the Derby.
I know it's small but our squad has to be used shrewdly. It's not, or should I say, it should not be a case of 4-5-1 is negative or 4-4-2 is great for attack. It simply should be case that David Moyes should by now have the nous to work out either home or away, what team we are playing, which style, or formation to use.
It's great to have an attacking 4-4-2 at home and so, leave Timmy on the bench or bring him on later in the game if required.
But say against Chelsea at the Bridge, go with 4-5-1 flood midfield and play as we usually do. It's horses for courses. We know what Cahill brings to the table but Moyes MUST realise that just like snooker football is always the same game but each frame (team) will have differing characteristics and therefore different formations and stratergies will be required.
So for me it's not about what do we do when Tim comes back but how can Moyes be a better manager in his team selection and game stratergy.
It's great to have an attacking 4-4-2 at home and so, leave Timmy on the bench or bring him on later in the game if required.
But say against Chelsea at the Bridge, go with 4-5-1 flood midfield and play as we usually do. It's horses for courses. We know what Cahill brings to the table but Moyes MUST realise that just like snooker football is always the same game but each frame (team) will have differing characteristics and therefore different formations and stratergies will be required.
So for me it's not about what do we do when Tim comes back but how can Moyes be a better manager in his team selection and game stratergy.
I didn't see anything from Arteta the other night that Cahill wouldn't be able to produce, to say that the lad can't play in a 442 is ridculous. He'll provide much more in the tackle in the middle than Mikel and fuck me even Timmy has the passing ability to knock it sideways 10 yards. He's got energy, passion, drive and some footballing ability as well. All this talk of where'll he play when he comes back is nonsense, he's a midfielder, play him in midfield. If he has a shocker then we have Arteta, Billy, Osman and Rodwell.
Jon this is predictable Moyes we are talking about.
No Plan B when shit comes to shove.
Always the same timing when subbing players.
Playing one striker at home to teams who comes to park the bus.
451 is the only way to go unless you got no choice. and sometimes changing formation way too late. (see above above about subbing players)
I'm not anti Moyes but he is frustrating with his tactical nous. Hell, any of us can take over while he goes on vacation during the league as he is that predictable.
No Plan B when shit comes to shove.
Always the same timing when subbing players.
Playing one striker at home to teams who comes to park the bus.
451 is the only way to go unless you got no choice. and sometimes changing formation way too late. (see above above about subbing players)
I'm not anti Moyes but he is frustrating with his tactical nous. Hell, any of us can take over while he goes on vacation during the league as he is that predictable.
So we win one game without him and it's time to ditch Tim?
What about games we won when he was playing?
Cahill will walk back into the team, unless Beckford/Yak start banging them in and rightly so. For the first half of the season he was the only one who could find the net, give him the credit he deserves.
What about games we won when he was playing?
Cahill will walk back into the team, unless Beckford/Yak start banging them in and rightly so. For the first half of the season he was the only one who could find the net, give him the credit he deserves.
Brian, fair enough. Some of the posters here are saying that but some of us are also saying Moyes needs to mix it up a bit instead of accomodating his favourites all the time no matter who they are.
Being able to drop your blue eye boys for the sake of the team as required by tactics or when they are not 100% fit as and when facing different opponents dictates or subbing them early when it don't work are what great managers do.
Being able to drop your blue eye boys for the sake of the team as required by tactics or when they are not 100% fit as and when facing different opponents dictates or subbing them early when it don't work are what great managers do.
Jon (16) completely agree. The top top managers have the ability and nous to change with each game/opponent and even during games! Hell, Moyes' mind would self-combust!
Let me know when we've played the Shite, Irons and Gooners (not to mention this afternoon's potential banana peel.).
It won't be a dilemma for Moyes, if we are winning he won't change the team, if we are losing Cahill comes back. Moyes is loyal beyond the pail so a winning team is rarely changed in the Premiership.
For me Cahill is a luxury we can no longer afford. Martin (17) if you think he can play as well as Arteta in midfield - are you related to him? Arteta might be playing badly at present but he is a class above most if not all of our midfield- class is permanent form is temporary. Cahill has a poor first touch, no real skill in passing but is 100% committed to Everton. Arteta has touch, vision, skill and an intellect, he might be playing poorly now but he will return to his past form. Cahill will never show any of those traits.
For me Cahill is a luxury we can no longer afford. Martin (17) if you think he can play as well as Arteta in midfield - are you related to him? Arteta might be playing badly at present but he is a class above most if not all of our midfield- class is permanent form is temporary. Cahill has a poor first touch, no real skill in passing but is 100% committed to Everton. Arteta has touch, vision, skill and an intellect, he might be playing poorly now but he will return to his past form. Cahill will never show any of those traits.
Jim
Just outta curiosity can you tell me when was the last time Arteta administered any of these TRAITS in a game because for me he has become our new Barry Horne.
He goes sideways with his passing on each and every opportunity and will not for what reason I dont know move forward after he has passed/laid the ball off, he just stays rooted to the spot offering no new outlet.
The old addage of class, permenant, form & temporary I agree with but the longer he keeps playing as he is and becoming a liability rather than a useful member of the team the more I believe which I have done since he signed his new contract that he should be sittting were Billy is (the bench)
He for me will always be the first name pencilled in on moyes's team sheet, when in reality he needs a proper stint on the bench for two reasons, to give him the jolt/kick up the arse he needs and secondly to take stock and hopefully regain the above traits you mentioned and which he once showed. Its been that long since I seen any of them I cant remember. He has done nothing this season other than the obvious, the RS goal. Cahill may not have any of the traits you say but IMO he more than makes up for these so called traits with other alternative TRAITS which Arteta doesnt have which I dont need to advise of as they have already been mentioned.
I hope Arteta can get back to the days when he took games by the scruff of the neck and dictated play with your said TRAITS, but he has had ample opportunities to do this against poor opponents this season and has been found wanting so I wont be holding by breath for any of his lost traits to return anytime soon.
I'm off anyway, Arteta rant over for now !
Just outta curiosity can you tell me when was the last time Arteta administered any of these TRAITS in a game because for me he has become our new Barry Horne.
He goes sideways with his passing on each and every opportunity and will not for what reason I dont know move forward after he has passed/laid the ball off, he just stays rooted to the spot offering no new outlet.
The old addage of class, permenant, form & temporary I agree with but the longer he keeps playing as he is and becoming a liability rather than a useful member of the team the more I believe which I have done since he signed his new contract that he should be sittting were Billy is (the bench)
He for me will always be the first name pencilled in on moyes's team sheet, when in reality he needs a proper stint on the bench for two reasons, to give him the jolt/kick up the arse he needs and secondly to take stock and hopefully regain the above traits you mentioned and which he once showed. Its been that long since I seen any of them I cant remember. He has done nothing this season other than the obvious, the RS goal. Cahill may not have any of the traits you say but IMO he more than makes up for these so called traits with other alternative TRAITS which Arteta doesnt have which I dont need to advise of as they have already been mentioned.
I hope Arteta can get back to the days when he took games by the scruff of the neck and dictated play with your said TRAITS, but he has had ample opportunities to do this against poor opponents this season and has been found wanting so I wont be holding by breath for any of his lost traits to return anytime soon.
I'm off anyway, Arteta rant over for now !
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1 Posted 07/01/2011 at 14:29:57
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"and the team looked balanced".
It is this balance that enables our play to be quicker as we can break quickly from both sides rather than having to find a way to get the ball over to the left. Hence the improvement when Donovan joined us last year.
Ive been proved wrong given the strikers returns this season but Ic always thought a wide left player was our priority addition during the last close season. Perhaps though with that balance the strikers might have done a bit better.
Very difficult one re Cahill but thats for debate in a months time, we have had one decent game, lets see how successful the tactic is over a month and judge then - so long as we keep playing it.