I was just thinking the same. Man U struggled in the game before that cheat was rightly sent off and I think that playing just 4 in midfield against them will not work in our favour.

A pity that we can't be a bit more positive going into this game. I think the chances of Moyes retaining 4-4-2 as a long term option are very limited as he will revert back to type at the slightest opportunity. I hope that I am wrong and that he adopts 4-5-1 in matches such as the Derby game and starts to use 4-4-2 more often, but I have my doubts given his usual cautious approach.

I hope that it is not just a "flirtation " as you call it with 4-4-2 and that David Moyes realises that playing 2 strikers can work. 2 strikers can support each other ans also provide more problems for the opposing central defenders.

Although naturally pleased to see Liverpool lose at Old Trafford, I do have certain misgivings. If I was totally honest I would have to say that the penalty was harsh and so was the sending off. I hope that Liverpool have therefore not used up their "quota" of bad luck for the next few games !!! I do believe however that Gerrard has had it coming for a long time. He more tham most players seems to strut around the pitch thinking that it doesn't matter what he does, he can get away with anything because of who he is. In the last seasons Derby Match he cheated to get Pienaar sent off. He is one of the worst when it comes to players trying to influence match officials.

Having finally grown a pair, Moyes should stick with a formation that the players seem to like, has players in their most effective positions and gives better balance

Don't worry... Fellaini is like having two men at the moment, so I say stick with the current 4-5-2 formation and give the red shite a right good pasting!

I'm with Steve #3. Fortune favours the brave. Moyes' negativity has never resulted in a win at Anfield. Saha and Beckford are clicking, each finding space for the other and giving defenders much more to think about than Everton have done all season. The players are starting to look comfortable, like they're playing something akin to their natural games.

If you need me to go on, on his day Fellaini is like 3 men anyway, and since that cunt with the stupid hair injured him he hasn't had chance to show what he can really do against Liverpool. He's capable of destroying a Gerrard-less midfield.

Besides, we packed the midfield against West Ham and were dreadful.

Without Gerrard, Liverpool's midfield is hardly anything to worry about.

Stick with 4-4-2 and their defence will problems all day long. I'd like to see Saha and Beckford given another chance too as that partnership is starting to look effective.

Howard
Neville - Heitinga - Distin - Baines
Coleman - Arteta - Fellaini - Pienarr
Beckford - Saha

While I don't think he will do it, I hope he goes for 4-4-2. They are there for the taking at the moment. Look at their midfield, it is nothing to be afraid of, especially without Gerrard. They are also missing Carragher in defence. We won't get many better chances to have a right good go at them, especially as the focus in the build up will all be on Kenny Dalglish.

11 vs 11, we will have the better team out, no doubt about it. Let's just hope we perform.

Colin O'Keeffe; you remind me of an episode of The Simpsons where Bart keeps touching a boobie trapped cup cake, over an over, each time receiving an electric shock.

The point is the last 9 times we have went there wth 4-5-1 we have not won and lost agaisnt ten me twice. So in my opinion grow a pair and lets change the psyche of the modern Evertonian, he who dares wins-nsno.

short version 1; utter and complete bollocks, worst post ever on this site.

Short version 2; you ARE taking the piss...aren't you?.

Not so short version. Did the Spurs game show you nothing, did it go right over your head, in one eye and out the other.

The Moysiah, yet again when forced into a corner, by the slings and arrow of outragious fortune ( don't you just LOVE the Asian cup?? ) has to go with the last forlorn hope, the over his dead body option.

Lo and behold, waddaya know it actually fuckin works, it not only works it works against a team that is ripping the established CL status quo a new arsehole.

It also works at the other end of our footballing spectrum against the knock out sudden death game against a lower league team.

You are a prime example of why care in the community does not work.

Yeah, definately change a formula that is working for the players that we have at our disposal.

Are you insane, Saha and Beckford have shown that they have the making of a partnership, and both obviously play better in a pair.

Liverpool are nothing without that scum bag, and Torres hates playing without him.

We need to go all out at them and shock them.

Rodwell and Feliani in the middle could be an option, but fuck it stick to what is working.

I would go Coleman, Feliani, Arteta, Pienaar. If Pienaar is still injured then bring in Rodwell and put Arteta on the Left.

Quality Derek!

Why not be positive and accept the best form of defence is attack? They'll be without that creaseheaded dirty bastard and looking at their huffing and puffing yesterday without him they've no quality. Go for blood early doors, rattle them, hopefully score a few then think about packing out the midfield. One of the strikers could drop back into the midfield.

Yeah Jamie #4, who needs a goalie eh?

We're on a roll, stick with the winning, and more exciting formation please!

This post shows how much our expectations have been lowered now at the club. This along with that post saying we should field a weakened team in the FA cup so we could cement our place in mid table. Well done Kenwright and Moyes, mission almost accomplished.

Colin and many others think we should play for a draw and be happy with that. Perhaps we might just nick one and win it.

Adjust your mind set Colin. We are better than Liverpool now, we have better players. We should no longer think a draw away at that pile of shite is acceptable especially given the turmoil they're in and without their cheating bastard talismanic captain.

As fans we need to let Moyes know that the 'new' system of 2 strikers is the way forward and we need to give every bit of support to that. Calling for us to revert to 4-5-1 will only feed into Moyes' doubts about his recent change of heart and push us back into the same old crap again.

I'm confused, Spurs are 100% better and more dangerous than Liverpool yet we went 4-4-2 against them and won but we should go back to 4-5-1 against Liverpool? A team that have lost at home to both Wolves and Blackpool?! We should take the game to them and batter them I say.

"We can't risk being overrun in this area" ? I think you are giving those horrible shits far too much respect (now missing the ring leader of the shite circus) and quite frankly I would be appalled if we did not field the same team that outplayed Spurs. Have a look at the table and see where 4-5-1 has got us so far, Colin. How many times have we gone to Anfield and given those bastards too much respect and come away with nothing? Mindset should be changed regarding this fixture from now on.

If it makes people feel better to say we've changed our formation I'm all for it ? 4-4-2 it is then.

Moyes has not lost in his last two head-to-heads against SAF (scoring six in the process) whilst it was FERGIE who went 4-5-1.

Moyes has systematically spanked that tactical genious Redknapp for 9 years and it was REDKNAPP who played the "cowardly" 4-5 -1 in their latest encounter.

Moyes set up his side to destroy the Shite this season ? we had the deckchairs out for the last half hour ? but WOY didn't change his 4-5-1.

Moyes has never been beaten by Ancelotti ? is he the only Prem manager who can say that? ? Perhaps it's Ancelottis insistence on playing the "negative" 4-5-1.

Moyes hasn't lost to that other tactical genious Mancini ? keeps beating him.

I can't help but laugh at the suggestion that Moyes is somehow tactically naive... where does that leave the rest of them?

Incredible in every sense of the word that a return to 4-5-1 could be on the cards. That system is like trying to box with one arm tied behind your back,
Don't take my word for it, just use the evidence of your own eyes.
If not for Cahill's goals that system would have had us staring down the barrel of relegation.
It is the tactic of a coward who hopes his side will nick the winner in a low scoring game.
Sadly it was our opponents that often nicked that winner.
I would suggest we hold our horses until the RS played their mid week game at Blackpool.
It is possible the Dalglish bubble could be punctured by Seasiders raring to go having had a fortnights rest.

Colin.

From reading the responses to your post I think you will get the drift that 4-5-1 is not the way forward.

On another note, I have heard strong rumours that Moyes is being distanced by the board and that transfer funds, however limited, will NOT be made available. Is he being asked to walk?

This is what Moyes has done to some of our fans, turned them negative.

We're playing one of the worst redshite teams in their entire history,
and you want us to go to Anfield with a negative attitude? Fuck it, go there and take the fucking piss out of them.

By the way, the reason Saha has looked better, is because he has a striker up there with him, whose pace and movement off the ball has Saha looking like the player we all knew he was. If Moyes drops Beckford, it will be criminal, because the Shite's back four has no pace, and he could run them ragged. If he drops him, it's back to good old Mr Negativity.

Watch Fellaini take revenge for that Greek twat last year. Our curly haired midfield general will take the shite to school next Sunday.

Beckford will run them ragged while Louis is left to run riot. Arteta will score a screamer from the edge of the box and we will win 3-1.

Dogleash will resign and they will end up with fat Sam in charge.

They will be relegated and the six points we took off tem would have kept them up.

They will end up in administration and their next derby will be against Tranmere Rovers.

We will be bought by the Quatari royal family and our new ground will be in Stanley Park.

I think we should play the exact formation we played in the games againest spurs and Scunthorpe, funnily enough it's the same formation we've played for at least the last 2 seasons : 4 2 3 1.

Saha moved into Cahill's position and Beckford moved up front.

I'm assuming you wrote this piece before gobby Steve threw a wobbly at the Manure yesterday and got red carded.

If I am correct then that means that Gerrard will NOT be playing in the Derby so surely there is no better time to go to Anfield an play 4-4-2 than now, especially with Louis and Beckford starting to forge a productive partnership up front.

Please, please please Mr Moyes, play 4-4-2 with Louis and Jamaine up front. The Red Shite hate pace aginst their back four and I get this feelin that next weekend could be a memorable one for us Blues.

PPS;- Definately play Coleman (no ifs, no buts)

Brian #19;- could'nt say it better myself. Absolutely spot on with your comments. Saha is a different (better) player when he's got a partner (Beckford) up front.

If it ain't broke then don't fix it. Everton are doing quite well now in the last two games so please Mr Moyes don't fukin change anything.

Moyes ain't won at Anfield... great time to start. I've never liked Dogleash after seeing him take a dive to win a pen against Bobby Robson's once high-flying Ipswich Town.

I strongly disagree with this suggestion, we have played (too) defensively against Liverpool in the past under Moyes and it has never really paid off.

Besides, if 4-4-2 is working (and it clearly IS working), then why mess with that? We are a good side and we shouldn't be tinkering with our tactics every five minutes out of "awe" for the opposition, if we play well we can beat anybody.

Colin, shut up!

We've all been screaming for Moyes to change the formation and players. Eventually Moyes has been forced to change, reaping the best results this season and now you're saying we should revert back to a formation and approach that wasn't working?

At which point does your idea/theory even start to make any sense?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!

We have finally started playing some positive football over the past two games ? I don't care who the opposition were ? we have won 2 games, scored goals and the team has finally looked like they are enjoying themselves.

4-5-1 has had its day and a return to that system on Sunday would finally confirm to me that Moyes is a dour negative manager with no balls.

And, aside from anything else, why should we be worrying about them ? they are rubbish and now have their best player missing. They should be worrying about us and that is what Moyes should be drilling into the players all week.

I don't buy-in to the notion that we should change tactics just because we are playing Liverpool...and it is a Liverpool team without the ever present thorn in our side - Steven Gerrard.

With their self-proclaimed "King" in charge, they will be up for it perhaps more than if Hodgeson was there; but then so should we. This is our best opportunity in years to get 6 points out of them ... 4-4-2 it is please.

Has to be 4-4-2 and we have to turn them over.

We're not going to get a better opportunity than this.

What a pathetic cowardly attitude.

Kevin Tully - Some of what you're on please. Quality post!

I actually agree with the conversion back to 4-5-1 for this game as the game will be won in midfield. There are two major question with regards to team selection for this game. It is expected Jagielka will be fit by the weekend. So does Jagielka, who normally has Torres in his pocket, come straight back in for Heitinga?? And as mentioned above, we revert to a 4-5-1 and drop Beckford for who?? I'm actually in favour of keeping Heitinga in the team ? it's now up to Jagielka to force his way back in. I would play Osman as the most advanced midfiellder (effectively the Cahill role). My team:

GK Howard
RB Neville
LB Baines
CD Heitinga
CD Distin
RM Coleman
LM Pienaar
CM Fellaini
CM Arteta
M/F Osman
CF Saha
Subs - Mucha Hibbert Jagielka Bilyaletdinov Beckford Rodwell Anichebe

Horses for courses is a term that comes to mind.

People do realise that you can change a formation in game don't they?

It's quite funny reading the comments of some posters saying that 4-4-2 should be maintained no matter what......wasn't the argument that Moyes maintaining the 4-5-1 a sign of ignorance and stupidity. The oft used and inappropriate Einstein quote being used.

Personally I would go with the 4-4-2,. as their midfield without Stevie Me (No forehead) is gash and their defence is slow and stupid.

The only worry we really have is Torres (and Maxi shooting from range) and without Stevie GBH he is a shadow of his former self but there is always the option to change to 4-5-1 if we look to be getting overrun in midfield. Mourhino changed his teams after 25/30 mins once....many managers could learn from this.

"The game will be won/lost in midfield"

No, it will be won by the team who scores most.

Saha has scored in last 2 games, a key factor in this is Beckford's movement creating space and Saha playing with his face to the goal and not his back.

We have 'won' lots of midfield battles this season. But I want to win the game.

We've had enough draws this year thanks.

4-4-2

Also, Brian #21 ? not far from the truth.

John Did you not read any of the other posts?

This is stupid.

4-4-2 please.

Nothing to worry about except if the "old Torres" comes back which is unlikely. their midfield and defence is awful except for Reina who is a class act. No Gerrard, no Carragher, we should be at their throats.

I was actually disappointed how we dropped off at home despite winning 2-0 and hope we go for it and let them worry about us.

King Kenny ? give me a break, who cares?

It's plain to see that 4-4-2 is working, let Moyes for once stick with a winning team. No chopping and changing every fucking week and have us guessing who's in and who's out. Stick with it.

Let's go for it i say, weve had two great results lately playing 4-4-2 and the midfield and strikers look to be enjoying playing that system. I think this is the perfect time to go to Anfield and do the double over the Shite for the first time in a long time!

Liverpool right now are there for the taking, the heart beat of their team is suspended and they're fucked without him. Carragher is out of it I think and Torres doesn't looked bothered at the moment either and the rest of their team just don't look up to it, don't look good enough, and I think we have a right chance of winning.

The only player we need to watch out for is Kuyt, not cos he's good but cos the cunt as a knack of scoring past us. Their team really is poor right now and if we are positive and play like we did vs Spurs then we can easily win on Sunday. In derbies I know it's hard to be on your game and at your best but we can beat these, they're not the Liverpool of old, they've just lost their manager and their main players are either out suspended or injured or out of form!

People say it will be lost or won in midfield which it very well might be... but, even if we went with two central midfielders, if Felli and Arteta can get a foothold of the midfield early on, I can see us winning it. That would be massively helped if Pienaar is fit cos he brings a lot to the team, defensively as well as attacking-wise.

For me, Moyesy needs to show he believes in these players and thinks they're as good as he does by being positive and going for it next weekend and giving them the confidence and saying to them "I'm sticking with 4-4-2, I believe you're capable of turning these over, I believe you're better than these!"

Like someone as said earlier, if he reverts back to 4-5-1 to start with, then he really is showing what a negative manager he really is, especially at this point when Liverpool really are in the dumps. There's no better time to go for it and be positive against them in my mind; let's go with 4-4-2 and show the fans there that we're going to have a go, get them right on side from the off. When we're winning 2-0 or something with 5 or 10 mins to go, shut up shop and go back to 4-5-1 and see the game out ? but don't see the game in with it!

Idiotic post.

We win 2 games on trot and score 7 goals in the process and we want to scrap that system and revert back to a formation that hasn't worked all season?!

I have news for you the game is not won in midfield it is won by outscoring the opposition. Something we look ten times more likely to do with 2 strikers up front.

Curious how the forwards are now scoring with 2 up top isn't it! We do not have the players to play an attacking 4-5-1 so it should be scrapped for good.

I don't see why we have to play five men in midfield when our midfield is clearly stronger than the Shite's. That ugly cheating twat got sent off against ManUre and will not be playing. Our side is definitely superior to theirs at the moment and should look to terrorize them rather than try to choke them.

I thought my post might get that reaction - a bit more over the top than I thought mind you. 'Care in the community' eh Derek#9? WTF?

Let me explain in plain English so it's not too complicated for you.

1) Spurs are the most open team in the premiership - they attack en masse and leave gaps all over the place. We were also at home and so it was the perfect time and opportunity to play 4-4-2.

2) Scunthorpe had lost 6 on the trot AT HOME prior to Saturday - we could have played 4-2-4 and won that one. That game is irrelevant.

My point is a derby game at Anfield, with a new manager playing his 1st home game is just a little bit of a different story to the above, Even those blinded by the notion that 4-4-2 with one striker with dodgy finishing is suddenly the answer to everything can surely see that?

They will flood the midfield and be well and truly up for it - if we are a man lite in there we'll struggle - and having two strikers won't be of any help in that situation. It's not a defesive move - just commonsense.

By the way - didn't we play 4-5-1 versus Man City and produce our best result of the season? In fact I seem to rememebr we battered them in the first 20 minutes. Oh but the 4-4-2 for every game brigade have conveniently forgotten that one.

But Colin *43 ? We might've got a great result at City and defended stoutly for a period in it with 10 men but before the sending off, City gave us the freedom of the pitch and stood off us and allowed us to get at 'em like we did. Liverpool won't allow that, and Spurs didn't but we didn't give Spurs the time either. Okay, Van der Vaart got in good positions but players like Bale and Lennon didn't get a sniff.

This season vs the so-called bigger and better teams, we raise our game and have a go. Why not, whilst on the back of two good results and goals scored whilst playing 4-4-2, shouldn't we go for it, considering Liverpool's current predicament, so what if it's Dalglish's homecoming, that might fire them up a little but we'll over come that, we'll rise to it and I'm sure we'll come away with a win.

Don't get me wrong, you have a point with the 4-5-1 cos we were playing okay at times with it, although we weren't getting the goals or results. But we've gone 4-4-2 and the players seem all positive about it and have responded great to it when you see them talking about it on the OS and things. It's as if they feel more comfortable in being in a 4-4-2 and it's breeding positivity and confidence. Anyway, although we play with 2 strikers, Saha drops in at times to make up the 5 when we haven't got the ball, he adds a bit of security. So if you like, when we have the ball it's 4-4-2 but without we still revert to 4-5-1.

Colin O'keeffe ? The points you have raised about the merits of reverting to 4-5-1 for the Derby are valid ones. This WILL be a much different game to the Spurs match.

I myself am worried about the Dalglish effect. However, I just feel that after such a depressing season, and after the near elation of the last two games, if we revert to type then even though it might be tactically sound, it will kill the new-found confidence of the players AND fans.

We have been to Anfield and Old Trafford with a tactically sound approach many times and been hammered many times. This week, I want to see my club go there with no fear. I want us to believe we can not only win but humiliate them. Let's just fuckin' have it!!!

If we get beat? So what? We have lost there by playing defensively so what's the difference if we lose by playing aggressively? We still get nil points. I believe we must carry on being attack-minded, not just for this game, but for the sake of our season as the comments on here and the atmosphere at Goodison have been truly depressing.

By the way, at the age of 29, am I too old to get a Seamus Coleman poster on my wall? Now that lad has been one of the few things that have kept us goin' this season. Fuckin' love that no fear mentality! Go and get 'em, Seamus lad!!!!

But Colin, we got absolutely twatted for the remaining 70 minutes and but for the post and crap finishing we could have lost.

I agree in sentiment with your post and its ironic that the 4-4-2 sticklers are so fervant in their view that 4-5-1 should never be played again. It's actually quite comical. Horses for courses

It's not that Moyes should just say in his best Mike Bassett voice "It will be four four fooking two" he should be good enough a manager to see when a 4-5-1 is needed and when a 4-4-2 is the best formation.

Another thing as well, Colin (#43) ? we're going to Anfield to play a down-in-the-dumps Liverpool with players out of form, key players suspended or injured and we have a great chance of getting a win under our belts, so why not go there and be positive? It's not like we're going to Old Trafford to play an in-form Man United, is it? Then i would understand your shout for 4-5-1 cos we would get that we could be under cosh in that particular game, so we would forgive Moyes for flooding the midfield.

But the fact we're off the back of 2 wins with 7 goals scored (so what if it was only Scunthorpe, you still have to stick the ball in the back of the net when on top, I didn't see United beat em so convincingly in the Carling Cup!), we should carry on being positive and have a go at our rivals, there's no better time to do such a thing in my eyes ? and those of a lot of other Evertonains!

"but you've got to be flexible and pick the right team for each occasion"

I agree with this sentiment 100%, however I completely disagree with Colin's application of it. Liverpool are vulnerable, they're off form and lack confidence. We should go at them, give them something to worry about and back our players to have enough. As Jamie (4) said, Fellaini is capable of dominating a midfield in a way that I've not really seen for Everton, so I'm not scared of Liverpool playing Raul Meireles, Lucas Leiva, and one other no-mark against us.

There will be games when we should revert to 4-5-1, but this is absolutely not one of them. The other point is that whatever we start off playing can be changed as required using the crazy new 'substitution' rule whereby players sitting on a bench at the side can replace players already on the pitch.

mike allison:

re: Raul Meireles. He is the only player I am worried about. And now with Gerrard banned, he will have a chance to play in the middle and not be wasted out on the wing. Hopefully Fellaini can keep him quiet.

Saha was majestic before he got his contract ? and of course long before Beckford came; now, all of a sudden, he is only playing well because Beckford's his partner?

So the improvement had nothing to do with Moyesie dropping him then?

After the last few weeks on here, and then the last two results with 4-4-2, the original post is an elaborate practical joke, right?

Of course we should stick with 4-4-2.

It'll be a dirty derby because the RS revert to type when push comes to shove (ahem).
Match them and we'll stuff 'em; go in like mincing nancy boys and we'll get what we deserve.

Hope the boys are working on a celebratory dance, a la England's Ashes win, to gain maximum media coverage...

Last time we won at Anfield? Sep 99.

Amount of times we have played 4-5-1 since Kevin Campbell's winner? Too many too mention.

Likelihood of either team making it into Europe? Slim to none.

Last League double over them? 1985.

Thats right, a quarter of a century.

And there's still supporters who want Moyes to play 4-5-1.

I shake my head in disbelief.

The only thing DM needs to change from the Spurs and Iron games is the amount of body armour worn. Liverpool were dirty against Man U and we won't get the protection of the referee.