An indirect free kick can only be awarded for a technical offence. When contact with a player occurs it would then come under a penal offence, namely tripping. Whether there was a goal scoring opportunity or it was intentional is irrelevant except for where the referee decides to caution or send off a player. It was a penalty and the referee was right to award it. Can't say the same about some of the other decisions though.

Bitter or just PISSED OFF. Pissed off listening to moaning arse today about our two goals. He sounds like his old pre-Hillsborough self in moaning and blaming everything and everyone except his own players and himself.

Pissed off at Sky, talksport and most other media channels for over hyping an appointment of a manager.

Pissed off as to why we haven't really had any credit for yesterday, especially Distin for his performance.

Well Done Everton as a club and fans for riding through this media frenzy and not collapsing into the circus of shite.

P.S. Play Beckford till the end of the season now.

All I would say Lee is that I am as bitter and biased as any blue and as soon as I saw it I thought 'pen'. I happen to think that Phil Dowd is a decent ref and doesn't get star struck
as some do. He won't get everything right in a game but he's honest enough. As for the Sky nonsense, well don't get me going on that. The thing that annoyed me yesterday was Alan Smith's comment :- " you have to give Everton credit, they always raise their game against the big teams!" What a prick.

Afraid To Be Bitter Blues
Comments (1)

Why do we do it to ourselves? Are we so obsessed with losing the tag 'Bitter Blues' that we ignore injustices in order to be perceived as being fair? Anyone who still has a recording of the match please have a look at the following.

(95 mins into recording but matchplay times stated)

65:25 "Torres looking to get the edge on Johnny Heittinga controlled by the hand it seems." followed by the co-commentator saying "It was a clear handball, I'm amazed the whistle didn't go." Bizarrely after this point there is no reference to the handball whatsoever by commentators, pundits or any area of the media. I have scoured this site and not a single reference to it from our own fans.

65:50 whistle blows for Osman's foul that led to the free kick, the cross from which immediately brought about the penalty decision.

Blues fans seem to be at odds as to the validity of this call but, for my two penn'erth, I think the ball had been played away by Maxi Rodriguez and there was no goal threat, plus no malicious intent from Howard going for the ball, ergo no penalty. The worst case scenario I believe would have been an indirect free kick as it was not preventing a goalscoring opportunity but who gives them nowadays? Alan Smith disagrees and believes it to be nailed-on in his commentary but what else do we expect of him where Everton are concerned? That said, I am no expert on these fineries so am willing to stand corrected if I am wrong in my assessment.

None of this changes my assertion that Torres should have walked for a second bookable offence due to the deliberate handball warranting a yellow card. Even if it were a mere free-kick, the ensuing play would not have led to the immediate aftermath of the penalty would it?

On balance a point each may have been a reasonable outcome on the basis of play but that is irrelevant to me. How many times have we played well enough to come away with more than we have done? Balance of play means nothing. It is goals and decisions that lead to or do not lead to goals that are all that matter. In this I believe we lost out.

Before anyone mentions it, I know our corner should have been a goal kick but later in the game the opposite happened at least once and we lost out in other decisions too. All-in-all I thought it was well refereed, allowing for reasonable errors on either side, with the glaring exception of the handball and penalty. Do I have my blue-tinted specs on or do I have a right to be an ever-so-slightly Bitter Blue?


Lee Mandaracas, Chelmsford Posted 17/01/2011 at 10:54:38

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Tristan Allerton
1 Posted 17/01/2011 at 14:16:59
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An indirect free kick can only be awarded for a technical offence. When contact with a player occurs it would then come under a penal offence, namely tripping. Whether there was a goal scoring opportunity or it was intentional is irrelevant except for where the referee decides to caution or send off a player. It was a penalty and the referee was right to award it. Can't say the same about some of the other decisions though.

Totally agree with the original post, except for the penalty comments. Agree giving the handball could have led to a very diffeent outcome, but once the fre kick given Tim Howard (who i thought was excellent otherwise) should not have allowed himself to get duped by that ugly little wretch Maxi.

Pissed of with Sky (as normal). Their choreography of the pre match build up would not have disgraced a West End musical. "The King Returns" My Arse.

Dalgleish never disappoints. A first class whinger. Moyes had the good grace to say he was relieved at 1-0 at half time and called the game correctly. More class in his little finger than that little tosspot.

Pissed off that one of our supporters gets set upon and has his jaw broken and hardly a mention in even the local media

Lee

If it's a foul in the box, then it's a penalty. There doesn't have to be any goal threat or even malicious intent to make it a foul. And it was a foul, because Howard took down the man. Yes they were a bit lucky to get the decision when they weren't about to score, but I honestly don't think there's a lot to argue about on the pen.

Don't know what happened there!!!!


What was supposed to be pasted was:
I think we have every reason to be bitter - but we should rise above it.
We don't need to complain about all the media having a RS love-in by employing lots of sad old ex-RS players as so called experts and to always have pro-RS coverage. Jim Beiglin is easily the most embarrassing - his FA Cup whinging at the Man U match were priceless.
e don't need to complain about Sky Sports billing the match as "The Return of the King" - more like "The Great Pretender" if you ask me.
We don't need to complain about the unprecedented replacement of the pre-match adverts by Sky with a 5 minute vomit inducing rendition of YNWA by the Kop. I wanted to see the new offers from DFS and CSL.
We don't need to complain about the warm up being about BurgerKing Kenny.
We don't need to complain about the aftermatch being about BurgerKing Kenny and how he inspired them to get a draw.
We don;t need to complain about the fact we have had no credit for wrecking the great one's comback.

We are Everton - Us against the World!

When deciding whether a decision that goes against us was right or wrong, I personally try to see how I'd react in the reverse, and to be honest, I'd have shouted for a pen if Beckford had've been brought down. That said, considering the ball fell back to another one of my players who then skied it over the bar, I wouldn't be calling robbery either if it hadn't been given.

Watching the full game on Sky, I was amazed at how many close-up shots of Torres their were....Whether he was involved in the action or not!..Even, on a couple of occasions while the ball was in play.
The cameraman must have a fetish for Ladyboys.

I'm not bothered how other clubs fans see me/us TBH.

I thought Dowd stunk yesterday and went with the crowd a lot. I also think that the two groin high tackles by I think Torres and Kuyt were red cards if the other way around.

Torres should have walked in the first minute for petulantly kicking out at Distin when he guided the ball out. If that was Phil Neville on Torres there would have been uproar. Saying that, Torres would have collapsed into a heap clutching his face like he seems to do whenever he is tackled...tit

Sky did their usual thing of letting the kareoke song play without commentary. It was a most uncomfortable few minutes. Unfortunately I had just been to the gents.

Lee we all have the tinted specs on from time to time ( Some never have them off on here, hahaha ) But all fans, in every game, think they have been hard done by.

You only have to look at the redshite, they are crucifying Dowd, saying he gave them fuck - all, all game.

At the end of the day, we only remember the decisions that go against us, and not the ones that go for us. You only have to look at our first goal from the corner, Anichebe gets the last touch, so its not a corner in the first place, but no - one is bringing that up, and thats because the decision went in our favour.

The "King Kenny" stuff has been so overhyped it is untrue. Those of us that subscibe to Skysports deserve (irrespective of any King Kenny stuff) to a balanced programme. Fair enough they gave a lot of attention to the "Walk on" song and the King's return but, a quick snapshot of the Everton fans would have been fair.

I have emailed my concerns to Skysperts and hope others do too

http://www.skysports.com/contactus/0,20299,,00.html

Okay, the best point I have to take on board is that I would've shouted for a pen if the tables were turned. I always thought I was that sort of fan but maybe my sense of injustice at the handball decision less than a minute earlier skewed my perspective on the penalty. I offered to stand corrected on that point and corrected I duly stand.

However, the handball incident was blatant beyond belief so it never should have got that far and they should have been down a highly influential player (albeit one of a dubious gender).

Brian, your observation about the corner leading to our goal is correct but your assertion that nobody paid it any attention is not as I refer to it in the final paragraph of my original post. I further state that there were wrong decisions of equal weight on either side so I thought Dowd had a decent game in all bar the handball decision. That was a major call and I believe he only held back for fear of a crowd reaction had he done according to his guidelines and issued Torres a second yellow card. By no measure can a corner versus goal kick decision be compared in its gravity of an error, even if we did go on to score from one of those several wrong judgement calls that went both ways.

Starting to feel a little better now that is all off the chest though. Bring on the Hammers and here's hoping we can get a win - especially if Beckford gets enough time to grow with us. Always believed he could be an absolute gem and, however he turns out, he has to be a huge step up from Jo!

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think it is written anywhere that a player has to be in posession to have a foul/penalty committed against him. If Heitinga kicked Torres in the nuts while the ball was at the other end of the pitch,it would still be a foul/penalty. Thus it does not matter that Maxi was not in possesion or going away from the goal. i expect you are all asking yourselves "do ladyboys have nuts"?

Yeah, I know you mentioned the corner Lee, what I'm trying to say is, if you look at the huge amount of posts on their pen ( Went against us ) to the odd few posts who mention the corner incident ( Went for us ) it backs up my point, that we only remember the the decisions that go against us.

Lee you make some good points.
I believe it was a penalty and would have screamed for it had Reina done it. Havind said that Dowd did not have a good game but both sides suffered.
The writing was on the wall when he allowed the blatant elbow in the back of Big Vic on the edge of the box go unpunished early on.
We have to accept these kind of refereeing inadequacies these days as part of the game especially as I feel the standard has really sunk this season. I have seen some amazing decisions and non-decisions in many games from people like Lee Mason, Andre Marriner, Mike Dean and Martin Atkinson who seem to be the main culprits.
Having said all that we have to admit the referees have a very difficult job and the players often act like spoilt children when they are penalised or are fouled. Some referees are just inept or totally niaive which conributes to the ongoing players tactics.
The shirt pulling,clutching and grabbing in the box is the main poblem that still irks me and it's about time the authorities started to issue mandates to the referees to get tougher.

I find it shocking that 'King' Kenny is moaning about Victors challenge on Kelly. He won the ball, the lad just fell awkwardly, it was no way a foul....

I can honestly say that I have never hated a player as much as I hate the 'ladyboy'...Diving, moaning, cheating little petulant shite

Can we get away from the penalty decision and concentrate on the point raised. Torres should have walked for his deliberate hand ball but the usual media pricks have now decided that it didn't happen and those who control the media control the news. It therefore didn't happen.

As above, he should have been sent off for the kick on Distin in the first few minutes, which the linesman deffinitely saw, as he reacted to it.

Boys, you win some, you lose some. But that's part of the beauty of football, the fact that we can debate these things after. 2-2 was a fair result, I also thought the ref had a good game. We got the rub of the green with our 1st goal, they might got lucky with the handball, though I don't remember seeing it at the time. It was definitely a penalty though.

And what about that Coleman shot that got deflected for a corner but wasn't given, i'm convinced Distin would have swept one in at the far post again for a 3-2 win if we'd got the decision. Maybe...

It's precisely this sort of pathetic moaning that earns us that Bitter tag.

For Christ's sake! Some times in the past we have had every right to moan, but not this time. We got lucky with the corner for the first goal and they got lucky with the handball. Both incidents led to goals. Evened itself out, so stop whingeing!!!!!!

After the first half we were lucky to still be in it and the second half fightback and all the good things that went with it are what you should be talking about, not giving Reds all the ammo they will ever need to keep calling us bitter!

What really got my goat was The manager of Brighton and Hove Albion, Brighton and flaming Hove Albion, on match of the day saying "David Moyes is doing an incredible job at Everton " as if our club was some plucky non league basket case. What the hell has he, his nomark club, or his goddam excuse for a country ever done in football to talk like that about us?

And just as the media can pigeonhole and patronise us, the RS will find their schmalzy coverage yesterday as a double edged sword - the beginning of them being redefined as Shankly Disneyland, file alongside Toon Army in the drawer marked passionate but peripheral.

Is it just me ? I'm assuming the extremely attractive young lady sitting next to the RS owner is his wife or girlfriend or whatever, in which case he is punching WELL above his weight ! and wonder what first attracted her to the multi millionaire John Henry !

Mike, I like the sound of that scenario......

I went to Anfield yesterday, for the first time in a few years. I'd sort of forgotten just how bloody puke-making the place is. The place was so full of foreign tourists, carrying their stupid transparent gift-bags, and as for that mawkish Fields of Anfield Road song, Jesus wept.

Although I could be denounced as a Bitter Blue, I honestly think if future success means turning our club into something like that, well count me out.

AND our women are better looking.....!

Do think it was a pen, but as the article states that ugly ladyboy cheating TWAT Torres should have walked for fucking slapping the ball and we should have had a free kick - hence no penalty.

Sky's coverage of the game - before, during and after - was nothing short of shocking. "The King Returns" is not only laughable and embarrasing, but also hugely disrespectful to us. I would have preferred them to come out with "we love those silly Norwegian gobshite supporting redshite bastards and want that silly senile arl twat King Kenny Dogshit to win because we are Sky and don't have a fucking clue about football or football history" than all the theatre shit (no offence to our foreign fans here by the way!).

Apart from ladyboy's handball where Sky chose to omit it from the game, I was fucking fuming with when they decided to hone in on our debatable corner for the first goal, and even more infuriatingly the way they showed replays of Anichebe's perfectly legal challenge on their yard dog of a right back which led to our second. Fucking disgraceful. The less football educated fans watching highlights of this would get the wrong view on the game completely.

As for the game itself... well played Blues. First half was all them, but fair play to Moyesy he sorted it out second half. Without wanting to get on his back, I just wish he would have told the players to keep it up for the rest of the half as it could have easily been 4 or 5-1. But under the circumstances (return of Kenny dogshit, first game at home being the derby, not won in ages, something to prove and all that), the result was way more favourable to us than them. Special mentions to Fellaini, Distin and in my opinion Beckford - all class.

As for them scumbags breaking one of our fan's jaws... I'm sure a certain number of blues will ensure this won't be forgotten when we play at Goodison next - which could be in a few years, as seriously they could easily go down (in which I think I would die of laughter if this happens!)

COYB - FUCK THE RED SHITE!!!

Agree completely with the original post. Couldn't believe he let the Torres handball go, and that passage of play led to the goal.
I don't know how some people on here are praising that twat dowd. He was completely inconsistent throughout the whole game and missed quite a lot of major incidents. Can't stand the prick.

I thought I was the only person to see lady boy kicking out at Distin in the first few minutes - glad to hear others saw it too - pity Sky and more importantly the ref failed to see it - Arteta got sent off for less!

On the penalty - I personally don't think it was a penalty but would have been surprised if the ref had not given it - quite a few papers today saw it for what it was - Maxi, or whatever his name is, stopped and waited for contact, instead of chasing the ball, and then dived like his prick manager used to (can't see Ladyboy or Stevie Me curtailing their diving antics whilst the original diver is in charge) but what annoys me most is that whinging twat Dogleash and all redshite fans moaned like fuck last week when Dracula took a tumble after contact but apparently that was a bad refereeing decision.

Compare and contrast Moyes V Dogleash - one dreams up every excuse as to why they did not win (let alone lose) blaming everything and everyone except his shit players and his own shit coaching. The other acknowledged the other teams superior play when they were on top but pointed out that we had our own period (all second half) of superiority and whilst he was disappointed that we only drew (having been in the lead in the second half) was big enough to admit that a draw was a fair result.

I know which one I feel prouder supporting (despite TW reservations).

Karl 23,

I have to disagree. Have been going to the derby at Anfield each year for decades and i can tell you for certain the decisions don't even themselves out. For example we have had one penalty there in 75 years should give some indication of the way decisions go yet they have had

I remember commenting on that handball by Torres at the time when watching the match.

The derby games this season were a media/LFC orgy.

A few things that pissed me off

1. Everyword that came out of Jamie Redknapp's mouth.

2. The full uncut version of Anfield's prematch atmosphere. This never happens at Goodison. As someone who can't make it to Goodison for every game, this pisses me off.

3. Torres, the wanker, kicking out at an Everton player after four minutes, nothing said, no problem. 14 minutes Anichebe taken down by the wee redshite runt, nothing said, no problem.

4. Half-time Skysports. Keys simple refers to Dalgish as "the king" (I'm sure Elvis would be raging). Queue slow motion Hollywood style pics of said royalty.

5. Amidst all this media love the real story of LFC fans filters through. My brother left Anfield with a huge filty gob on his monkey hat which came from the upper tier.

To balance this bitterness I just want to say a big 'thank you' to the travelling support for being so vocal from start to finish. It was a joy to watch the dark blue masses bouncing with spontaneous joy for 10 mins after Beckford's goal. Coupled with the stories of commendation for Evertonians at Scunthorpe form these pages, it makes me proud to be a Blue.

There really is an absurd gap between appearance and reality.

David Thomas.

If you read what I wrote again you will see that I pointed out that many times in the past we have had cause for complaint, but in THIS PARTICULAR MATCH things evened themselves out.

I was a Wembley for the Hanen handball, I remember that idiot Poll not allowing Hutchison's goal to stand because the match 'had finished, Gerrards two footed kamikaze tackle on Naysmith' and the Clattenburg derby plus countless others, but on Sunday it evened itself out for tthat particular match.

I don't know enough about broken jaws or gollying on people from the upper tier, but I would suggest that Evertonians raise a stink about it in the local media ( not the National one as it will just be dismissed as 'thieving, scummy scousers' anyway ) and get Liverpool FC to change the seating arangements at Anfield for the erby at the very least.

Things I noticed:

1) No advert break immediately prior to kick off......that's never happened before

2) Torres deliberate kick at Nev getting a yellow when possibly red

3) Laughing heartily that it wasn't a corner for Distin to score from within 30 seconds....about time that happened to those twats

4) Jay Spearing looking like The Bride of Chucky

5) Maxi actually being a caricature drawing of himself

6) Gillian McKeith managing the Redshite

7) The "you must buy a scarf to enter" policy clearly in play - together with the vast amount of "King Kenny" scarves.....why would you buy that?

8) David Moyes wearing my dad's cardi

9) Still realising that if the Shite sold Gerrard they could buy 2 Colemans a week

10) Dowd looking like he's got the same diet at The Yak

Gary #34 i like it! Especially no 6. Pissed myself when I read that!

Interesting point you make for point no 1, I noticed that aswell. Sky didn't do a commercial break just before kick off so that we could all hear their song. Does make you wander doesn't it. Sky's obsession with Liverpool and making sure we all don't forget how once they were a member of the "Shy 4" (but not anymore). In fact I find it quite embarrassing and cringe worthy as to how obvious Sky made it about their obsession with the clubs at the top and that the rest of us are there just to make the numbers up.

Coming back to the original point, i don't think there is any reason to be a "bitter" from the derby game. We had our fair share of fortune, especially the corner that led to the Distin goal. That was worth the entrance fee alone, just seeing that twat-ed Kyut moaning about it.

When the dust settles I think most people will see the draw at their place as being a psychological victory for us as "King Kenny" didn't get the fairytale return he and Shy desperately wanted and 4 points from a possible 6 off them this season is something to build on.

Just got to say also;-
1) Distin was immense last Sunday. This guy has come along way from the nightmare performances earlier this season against Newcastle and the Manure.
(2) Fallaini was also immense. The way he controlled the midfield and spread the ball around was very good. (pity the same can't be said of Mikel at present)
(3) Beckford played very well also and it just goes to show how a run in the team can bolster confidence.
(3) Moyes needs to play a 4-4-2 system right to the end of the season now - no excuses. Even when tiny Tim comes back, use him to replace the wholly ineffective Arteta and keep Beckford up front with either big Vic or Saha

Playing 4-4-2 sends the right message out to the opposition that we mean business whereas Playing 4-5-1 tells the opposition that we are afraid of them. Moyes take note.

Why not just send Torres off after about three minutes when he kicked out at Distin? The linesman clearly saw it because he reacted by stepping across and putting his hand there, but didn't actually do anything. I guess if you're Fernando Torres you're just allowed to do those petulant things and its okay. Arteta's red card against West Brom was no more 'violent' than this.

Oh, and Lucas, for fouling every single time he was able to get near an Everton player, he wasn't even booked.

Loved Johnny running straight through Torres though, and the ref saw it for what it was, Torres trying it on and getting nothing for it.

One more thing (sorry Michael, feel free to stick these into one post if possible).

Alan Smith is absolutely dreadful, yet seems to do every single game I ever watch on Sky, he's an idiot.

Agree with the Alan Smith comment Mike. The remark he made about Everton doing well against the big clubs really pissed me off.

We'd never have been given a penalty in those circumstances
"Say it loud - I'm bitter and proud"

(A bitter Blue with much to be bitter about)

Matthew, as some posters noted after the Spurs game, our formation hasn't changed at all. In that game somebody pointed out that Saha had played the slightly deeper role usually assigned to Cahill, and against Liverpool it was clear that initially, Victor Anichebe was doing this. However, after about 20-25 mins, Osman and Anichebe swapped positions, so that Victor was on the left and Leon down the middle. We continued to play this way for most of the match, just as much a 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 as it was before, but with different players in those same positions. It seems playing Saha or Anichebe ten yards deep of the striker is 4-4-2, whereas playing Cahill ten yards deeper of the main striker is 4-5-1.

Another Sky bias thing which angered me. Rodwell was waiting to come on and the Sky commentator says something like "Jack Rodwell wasn't even born when Kenny Dalglish was last Liverpool manager". So even when an Everton player is about to come on, they have to relate it to a bit of red shite trivia. Why not say "Jack Rodwell wasn't even born when Everton drew 4-4 in 1991 and then dumped them out after Kenny had thrown the towel in"? Or why not "Jack Rodwell wasn't even born when Newcastle fans were shouting for Dalglish to quit and Keegan to return"?

Mike, Arteta the other day in the interview he done, when asked about playing deeper, he said it was because Cahill was away, and that it was also because we were now playing 4-4-2. Now surely Arteta would know what formation we have been playing,more than any of us?

I was reading the comments about the penalty in the Liverpool game and I personally did not think it was a penalty as he would not have scored if he had not touched him and they played on and put the ball over the bar. It seems if the goalkeeper goes for the ball and player runs into him with no chance of scoring a penalty is given.

It was a sickening love in.

I'd have liked to see Torres' stamp on Neville's ankle but Sky forgot to replay it...

Brian, Arteta's been playing deeper all season, with Cahill here, so something's going wrong somewhere if that was his answer.