The Mail Bag
Fellaini ? great; Arteta ? rubbish...
I don't think so!
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I can't believe what's now going on with some Evertonians.
Apparently Fellaini can do no wrong and Arteta can do no right but, from where I sit, I see them both struggling a bit and the fact of the matter is they do not look like they can play together effectively enough.
Last week against Liverpool, Fellaini was chasing shadows in the first half, totally unable to stop the Liverpool midfield creating attack after attack. He finished the half with his horror pass straight to Maxi Rodriguez on the edge of our box. But somehow he becomes Man of the Match.
Yesterday, against West Ham, he was clearly struggling early on and lost possession in the Everton half on several occasions. Again, he was praised after the game. On the other hand, Arteta is getting panned re his apparent horror shows.
Let's be clear: Arteta is not at his best and looks uncomfortable in his partnership with Fellaini... but he is certainly not playing as badly as some Evertonians seem to think.
I find it amazing that when Fellaini loses possession there is silence in the ground as though no-one has noticed it but, when Arteta makes a poor pass, all hell lets loose. It's just crazy and some Evertonians are very blinkered.
It is obvious to me that Fellaini is not the great defensive midfielder Evertonians want him to be. He can't tackle properly and he is too slow to cover the defence properly, too slow to get a good tackle in, too slow on the turn. Yesterday, all his best work was done when he was moved up front and he started to cause problems for the West Ham defence.
Against the trend, I know... but, for the Chelsea game next week, I would go with the 5-man midfield with Fellaini playing in the Cahill role and Rodwell being used as the anchorman. That would be far better for the balance of the midfield and better than moving Arteta wide. 4-4-2 didn't work against West Ham and it won't against Chelsea.
But please, Fellaini is not paying fantastic and Arteta is not the pits. It's somewhere in the middle and the simple fact is they have not been playing well together.
Arteta has been one of our classiest and best players in recent years and it's time some Evertonians gave him the respect he deserves before he too thinks it's time to leave.
If you want to show your frustration, aim it at Moyes who has not found the right balance/team all season. He should carry the can for the mess we are now in.
Ged Dwyer, Posted 23/01/2011 at 18:51:51
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I have to disagree, I think Fellaini has been awesome since he came back. The stand out game being away at city.
Arteta isn't playing terribly, he's just not living up to the high expectations we hold for him. I just fail to believe that someone with his ability won't come good at some stage.
Arteta isn't playing terribly, he's just not living up to the high expectations we hold for him. I just fail to believe that someone with his ability won't come good at some stage.
Fellaini has been our player of the season his red card aside he fucking tries 100% he may be chasing shadows but HES FUCKING CHASING for fucks sake.
When he wants to leave which will be quite soon once the rot has set in even further there will be a massive queue of clubs for him. As a midfielder he has it all, shame hes playing in the first team of EFC manged by a dour out of touch stubborn manager, were fucking shite.
When he wants to leave which will be quite soon once the rot has set in even further there will be a massive queue of clubs for him. As a midfielder he has it all, shame hes playing in the first team of EFC manged by a dour out of touch stubborn manager, were fucking shite.
Can't agree with this sorry. Fellaini spared our blushes at west ham! Arteta was complete shit. Every single dead ball hit the first man. Then the moment that really pissed me off was at the end where he choose to shoot and sent it miles wide with other players in good positions. Arteta only has himself to blame. He offers nothing at present.
Mikel is fast becoming Vinny Samways. I agree with the post to an extent but Mikel needs to be taken off all dead balls and put wide right til we get someone better.
We see Mikel playing shit on hsi big fat contract, fuck knows what hsi fellow team mates are thinking especially as his free kicks dont clear the first man.
Resentment maybe?
Resentment maybe?
Yes - some truth in your post but not all.
Fella is turning out to be a fantastic buy in my opinion. Arteta is off the boil and will be till he gets rested or pushed out wide for a game or two. He has forgotten how to push forward from midfield... a loss of confidence perhaps?
However Moyes has had 20+ games to get things right and has failed to do so. Very poor. Bily has got to play more, at least he knows where the net is.
Still not knowing your best team this deep into the season... I cant believe it has got this far. The decision to let Yak go is also appalling. We need a 20 goal a season man... well we had one and we killed his confidence before letting him go out on loan. Seriously.
Fella is turning out to be a fantastic buy in my opinion. Arteta is off the boil and will be till he gets rested or pushed out wide for a game or two. He has forgotten how to push forward from midfield... a loss of confidence perhaps?
However Moyes has had 20+ games to get things right and has failed to do so. Very poor. Bily has got to play more, at least he knows where the net is.
Still not knowing your best team this deep into the season... I cant believe it has got this far. The decision to let Yak go is also appalling. We need a 20 goal a season man... well we had one and we killed his confidence before letting him go out on loan. Seriously.
Paul Rimmer - 'Mikel needs to be taken off all dead balls and put wide right til we get someone better'.
Crossing the ball from set pieces has always been Arteta's weakness, something Moyes should have sorted out a long time ago, but if he can't cross a ball why the hell would you want to play him out wide !
Crossing the ball from set pieces has always been Arteta's weakness, something Moyes should have sorted out a long time ago, but if he can't cross a ball why the hell would you want to play him out wide !
Felliani is world class. yes he did have 2 wayward passes in the last two game that could have cost us, but he mops up everything. He is responsible for so many breakdowns in the opposition attack, then takes hold of the play and sets Everton off on another attack. Seems to almost always be in the right place at the right time kind of thing.
I reckon he could seemlessly fit in in the world's best teams and we are very luck to have him.
Arteta is trying hard, but just not doing it these days, and i cant figure out why this is as regards on the pitch. So it has to be something in his mindset not being right.
I reckon he could seemlessly fit in in the world's best teams and we are very luck to have him.
Arteta is trying hard, but just not doing it these days, and i cant figure out why this is as regards on the pitch. So it has to be something in his mindset not being right.
Arteta plays the safe pass too much when I've seen him of late. Watching Felli, he will bring the ball down well then beat some players before distributing up field. He's also more prolific goals wise if you compare the stats.
He's the better player at the moment - no contest. It's a crying shame that the pair have never chimed together due to injuries or suspensions. If they chimed we would destroy most sides. Fellaini's energy, ball retention combined with Mikkel's vision would hammer a lot of teams, especially given that Coleman is now shooting with both feet!
He's the better player at the moment - no contest. It's a crying shame that the pair have never chimed together due to injuries or suspensions. If they chimed we would destroy most sides. Fellaini's energy, ball retention combined with Mikkel's vision would hammer a lot of teams, especially given that Coleman is now shooting with both feet!
Arteta hasnt played well all season, in fact the last time he kicked the ball forward with any pupose was his goal in the first derby. I might be barking up the wrong tree . . . but i'm not convinced his knee is right. Dont forget he was out for a year and had 2, maybe even 3 operations with that cruciate injury. He definitely is not right. Even if he has lost a bit of desire now he is on about £300k a month surely he would be able to kick it past the front post off a corner ?
Amazing how people can have such different views on the same games. For my money Fellaini has been far and away our best player in recent games and is basically having to get up and down the pitch like a lunatic to cover for the deficiencies of others. Ok, so a few passes may go astray from time to time but at least he then makes a concerted effort to win back possession. Arteta just constantly slows the pace down, seemingly needing a minimum of 3 or 4 touches before releasing the ball. When he gives away possession it's usually Fellaini there winning it back
RE: Arteta's delivery. for set pieces.
I say Baines or Coleman take over. Or Hibbert. Or Steve Round. Or one of the Toffee ladies.
What's Stuart Barlow doing these days?
I say Baines or Coleman take over. Or Hibbert. Or Steve Round. Or one of the Toffee ladies.
What's Stuart Barlow doing these days?
Arteta hasnt been as bad as people make out. He has set such high standards that people expect him to beat teams on his own and dominate every game. He has been very quiete but when he has been involved he has usualy used the ball well.
The team and formation needs to be played around with to try and get the best out of everyone. Fellaini has been good for the most part of most games but i wouldnt say he has been near his best either.
The team and formation needs to be played around with to try and get the best out of everyone. Fellaini has been good for the most part of most games but i wouldnt say he has been near his best either.
John - totally agree with you mate
In the derby Fellaini was covering for the lack of Heitenga's errr....HEIGHT. At Upton Park last month he was constantly making the more progressive passes up the flanks. Arteta was awful both times. I like Mikkel but he's simply not showing much at the moment whereas Felli is putting proper shifts in.
In the derby Fellaini was covering for the lack of Heitenga's errr....HEIGHT. At Upton Park last month he was constantly making the more progressive passes up the flanks. Arteta was awful both times. I like Mikkel but he's simply not showing much at the moment whereas Felli is putting proper shifts in.
Ian - would you say 4-4-2 with Arteta forwards and Fellaini deep should work? Coleman and Bily/Osman on the flanks?
I reckon that would be good with Saha and Beckford up top but it is dependant on one player who is currently bottling things. We sold the other bottle job so guess who I am referring to??
I reckon that would be good with Saha and Beckford up top but it is dependant on one player who is currently bottling things. We sold the other bottle job so guess who I am referring to??
I posted this on another thread where the OP blamed Fellaini for the teams ills:
Fellaini along with Distin, Baines and possibly Coleman have been the only positives this season.
Why has Arteta been holding hands with the CB's for the majority of the season? Why is he playing so deep? It has nothing to do with Fellaini but everything to do with the manager not risking a player getting ahead of the ball in case we lose possession.
If both of our central midfielders are playing deep (which they are,) and the only players in front of them are strikers who are miles away from them they leave a massive space in front of them both for the opposition to attack. This gives the opposition an age on the ball to find a telling pass or shot, or enough space for runners to fill and be near impossible to pick up without drawing a CB out.
If anything, Arteta is stepping on Fellaini's toes and should be earning his money practicing free kicks/ corners/ through balls/ shooting. If the manager allowed an ounce of creativity, flair, let a player think for themselves or took a chance instead of being set up to play Barcelona and keep our shape for 90 minutes we would be a better team for it.
Fellaini along with Distin, Baines and possibly Coleman have been the only positives this season.
Why has Arteta been holding hands with the CB's for the majority of the season? Why is he playing so deep? It has nothing to do with Fellaini but everything to do with the manager not risking a player getting ahead of the ball in case we lose possession.
If both of our central midfielders are playing deep (which they are,) and the only players in front of them are strikers who are miles away from them they leave a massive space in front of them both for the opposition to attack. This gives the opposition an age on the ball to find a telling pass or shot, or enough space for runners to fill and be near impossible to pick up without drawing a CB out.
If anything, Arteta is stepping on Fellaini's toes and should be earning his money practicing free kicks/ corners/ through balls/ shooting. If the manager allowed an ounce of creativity, flair, let a player think for themselves or took a chance instead of being set up to play Barcelona and keep our shape for 90 minutes we would be a better team for it.
I would try 4-4-2 with the team we had against West ham but Saha on for Victor and Bily for Osman. Try and get one of Fellaini or Arteta to stay deep and one of them to get forward at every possible opportunity.
Yes we might get caught out from time time but i would have the confidence in the Everton players being better than most of the other teams in the league that they would score more goals than the opposition.
If it wasn't working i would bring Rodwell on for either Beckford or Saha but have Rodwell playing as an attacking midfielder, moving Arteta out to the left with Fellaini holding.
Yes we might get caught out from time time but i would have the confidence in the Everton players being better than most of the other teams in the league that they would score more goals than the opposition.
If it wasn't working i would bring Rodwell on for either Beckford or Saha but have Rodwell playing as an attacking midfielder, moving Arteta out to the left with Fellaini holding.
Fellaini has made two mistakes recently which could have cost us goals, and he is not up to the form that he was last season before his injury. However, he is still easily our best player on the park at the moment and every other PL club would want him in their side.
I believe that with Arteta, it's a confidence thing. He has never really looked the same since his injury, and I just hope that he isn't going the same way that Yakubu went. Moyes should force Arteta to play further forward as a playmaker, ala Sneijder or Ozil or van der Vaart to stop Arteta being so conservative.
I believe that with Arteta, it's a confidence thing. He has never really looked the same since his injury, and I just hope that he isn't going the same way that Yakubu went. Moyes should force Arteta to play further forward as a playmaker, ala Sneijder or Ozil or van der Vaart to stop Arteta being so conservative.
One of the worst mistakes I have ever seen was made by Howard Kendall. It was at Goodison v Derby County in Sept 1971, the ball was played across to him from the right and he played it across to the left wing. Only problem was he clearly didn't look because the ball was played way behind the nearest Everton player - Derby gained possession and scored. A giveaway - but a mistake by one of the " Holy Trinity". ?? Yes it did happen , sometimes Kendall, Harvey and Ball would make mistakes, have the odd bad game.
The point is it happens to every player - a mistake, a bad game or a run of bad form. Yes every player - past present and future!!
Arteta is clearly not having a good run or at best an inconsistent run of form - but how does the saying go? - " Form is temporary - Class is permanent". Let's remember that before we start slagging off players.
The point is it happens to every player - a mistake, a bad game or a run of bad form. Yes every player - past present and future!!
Arteta is clearly not having a good run or at best an inconsistent run of form - but how does the saying go? - " Form is temporary - Class is permanent". Let's remember that before we start slagging off players.
I'll disagree with most of what you write, except your last line.
Fact: Fellaini have been wastly superior to Arteta this season, why? Because Fellaini does what his role in the team asks of him. He runs, tackles and picks upt balls an masse. Arteta on the other hand drifts out of games and mainly pass the ball backwards or sideways when his role is supposed to be creative.
Fellaini have not been awesome, but he is doing what is asked of him and then some.
I also wholeheartedly disagree to put him in the Cahill-role. He excels in the deep position and why do we always have to remove players from their best position?
Fact: Fellaini have been wastly superior to Arteta this season, why? Because Fellaini does what his role in the team asks of him. He runs, tackles and picks upt balls an masse. Arteta on the other hand drifts out of games and mainly pass the ball backwards or sideways when his role is supposed to be creative.
Fellaini have not been awesome, but he is doing what is asked of him and then some.
I also wholeheartedly disagree to put him in the Cahill-role. He excels in the deep position and why do we always have to remove players from their best position?
IMO Arteta's hardly had a good game all season and Fellaini's hardly had a bad one, the lads been awesome. Enjoy him while we can...... before he goes on a free.
In Arteta's defense I don't think he's got his confidence back after his injury plus Moyes is playing him far too deep for his creativity to come through.
I've got a horrible feeling we could've seen the best of him though, which I guess is balanced by knowing we've not seen the best of Marouanne. The boys going to be a worldy, shame it won't be in a blue shirt.
In Arteta's defense I don't think he's got his confidence back after his injury plus Moyes is playing him far too deep for his creativity to come through.
I've got a horrible feeling we could've seen the best of him though, which I guess is balanced by knowing we've not seen the best of Marouanne. The boys going to be a worldy, shame it won't be in a blue shirt.
Ged he made a few miss placed passes but he is constantly looking for the ball shouting for it everytime another Everton player has it, whilst on numerous occasions on Saturday me and my mate made a point of watching Arteta off the ball and he never ever did this, there is another word for this, it is called hiding.
fellaini never played as well as he has and yet he still was responsible for us getting anything out of the game by setting up one and scoring another and that says alot of how important he is to us.
WHEN we cash in on him to a better team watch what he does.
fellaini never played as well as he has and yet he still was responsible for us getting anything out of the game by setting up one and scoring another and that says alot of how important he is to us.
WHEN we cash in on him to a better team watch what he does.
As for Arteta, has anyone thought that maybe we have overated how good he actually is in the centre of midfield?
Before he got injured he was playing great, but for how many games was that vein of form and how many games were against top opposition? as for years he had been out wide and the centre mid posistion was fairly new to him in an Everton shirt before he got injured.
People are asking why is he playing so deep when we have Fellaini in that role, my opinion is he does not have the legs and engine to be a marauding centre mid and we should throw him out wide and give Rodwell that job.
Before he got injured he was playing great, but for how many games was that vein of form and how many games were against top opposition? as for years he had been out wide and the centre mid posistion was fairly new to him in an Everton shirt before he got injured.
People are asking why is he playing so deep when we have Fellaini in that role, my opinion is he does not have the legs and engine to be a marauding centre mid and we should throw him out wide and give Rodwell that job.
Completely agree, Arteta has obvious class he is just out of form, what sort of fans are we when we are on the back of a player who has arguably been our best for the last five years, bet he's glad he stayed when in the first bad spell of his goodison career he's getting lambasted. The two can't play together, they are both too deep. We only started playing marginally better against west ham when osman was put in aside arteta and fellaini shoved out of harms way. This was also the partnership that tore apart fiorentina man u chelsea and arsenal. Fellaini has nowhere near justified his 15 million price tag, slow physically and in thought, no real strength, fouls too much, can't really tackle and doesn't have a powerful shot. Yes he's played alright this season without setting the world on fire but would any of the big teams swap fletcher, essien or song for him? Don't think so. Funny how our best run of form at the back end of last season came when he was injured.
Thats right Ged. All those Evertonians (which is the majority) are wrong and you're right.
Fellaini is immense and has been our best player this season whereas Arteta is completely out of form. How anyone can not see that is completely beyond me. The suggestion that fans are ignoring when Fellaini hits a misplaced pass is ridiculous.
Fellaini is immense and has been our best player this season whereas Arteta is completely out of form. How anyone can not see that is completely beyond me. The suggestion that fans are ignoring when Fellaini hits a misplaced pass is ridiculous.
It is surely time to put Rodwell in alongside Fellaini and give Arteta some time on the bench. I personally think that the Fellaini Rodwell partnership will flourish and maybe even allow the sale of Arteta to bring in some funds before his value starts to drop.
We must be watching different matches!
Fella in my mind is comfortably the most talented player in our team; he is also as such the one player i worry about us selling.
He has composure, intelligence, can pass and tackle and of course his height is such a useful tool both offensively and defensively.
I will be very surprised if, at our current rate of progression, he is still with us in 3 or 4 seasons time. £20 m move to one of the big boys. Mark my words.
Arteta, sadly has been pants.
He has composure, intelligence, can pass and tackle and of course his height is such a useful tool both offensively and defensively.
I will be very surprised if, at our current rate of progression, he is still with us in 3 or 4 seasons time. £20 m move to one of the big boys. Mark my words.
Arteta, sadly has been pants.
Fellaini is a very good player but he isn't "world class ". That phrase is bandied about far too much.
Is this a wind up?
Fellaini was good againest Liverpool, awesome againest Spurs and saved us a point againest West Ham.
He is most definatly not slow either.
Fellaini was good againest Liverpool, awesome againest Spurs and saved us a point againest West Ham.
He is most definatly not slow either.
It seems to me that Arteta has lost the ability to go past people. Whether it's the injury ,lack of confidence or both once this happens a midfield player becomes one-dimensional and we witness Arteta playing like Ray Wilkins . Mikki's been back from injury for almost a year now . The portents are not good and the 75g per week is looking a very poor decision.
Well said Ged.
I've been saying the same thing about Fellaini in the last couple of matches and have been watching only him to see what he does to deserve his immense status among our supporters and I've failed to see it except for his goal on Saturday when he was playing out of position.
I've been saying the same thing about Fellaini in the last couple of matches and have been watching only him to see what he does to deserve his immense status among our supporters and I've failed to see it except for his goal on Saturday when he was playing out of position.
Fellaini has been one of our better players, but Mick ( #9 ) I had to have a little chuckle mate ' World class ' he ain't. World class is the level of Messi, Xavi, Ronaldo, etc, and he is nowhere near that class.
Also Ged, agree that for some reason Fellaini can't do no wrong, even after his last sending off, he was backed to the hilt on here.
Also Ged, agree that for some reason Fellaini can't do no wrong, even after his last sending off, he was backed to the hilt on here.
Paul Gladwell
''he (Fellaini) made a few miss placed passes but he is constantly looking for the ball'
That was what I said Paul, he lost possession several times in the first half.
'fellaini never played as well as he has and yet he still was responsible for us getting anything out of the game by setting up one and scoring another'
Again that's what I said ('all his best work was done when he was moved up front and he started to cause problems for the West Ham defence') and that's why I think Fellaini should be given the Cahill role.
As for Arteta hiding, I think it is more like lack of confidence and being unsure of what role he now has, totally in keeping with a lot of players during Moyes' reign.
James Martin summed up things very well for me when he said our best run of form at the back end of last season came when he (Fellaini) was injured. Five man midfield with proper width on both flanks will help Arteta to regain his form.
''he (Fellaini) made a few miss placed passes but he is constantly looking for the ball'
That was what I said Paul, he lost possession several times in the first half.
'fellaini never played as well as he has and yet he still was responsible for us getting anything out of the game by setting up one and scoring another'
Again that's what I said ('all his best work was done when he was moved up front and he started to cause problems for the West Ham defence') and that's why I think Fellaini should be given the Cahill role.
As for Arteta hiding, I think it is more like lack of confidence and being unsure of what role he now has, totally in keeping with a lot of players during Moyes' reign.
James Martin summed up things very well for me when he said our best run of form at the back end of last season came when he (Fellaini) was injured. Five man midfield with proper width on both flanks will help Arteta to regain his form.
Thanks Brian - You always add a bit of common sense to any debate.
Ged, this is'nt all about passing,
its about how long has been playing a bad game... 4 months in my book.
its about how many times his dead ballls don't get past the first defender.
its about his lack of "get up and at them" attitiude.
its about his general body language i.e looking at his boots when play is near to him.
its about letting David moyes & evertonians down.
its about being paid £75k per week.
its about how long has been playing a bad game... 4 months in my book.
its about how many times his dead ballls don't get past the first defender.
its about his lack of "get up and at them" attitiude.
its about his general body language i.e looking at his boots when play is near to him.
its about letting David moyes & evertonians down.
its about being paid £75k per week.
Garry Martin
In order :
It's also about movement from the other players and a question of balance.
It's not 4 months. He was fine up until the Arsenal game and had a great Derby game at Goodison. Since then he has struggled a bit but has played ok in some of the games such as Spurs at home.
As I have said his set pieces have always been a problem. Moyes should have sorted this out a long time ago. Apart from Baines who else can take them (Osman was poor when tried, maybe Coleman could be given the chance). Maybe it's a reflection on the other players lack of crossing ability.
He's not the get at them type of player that's why he needs a tigerish type of player next to him in midfield. We ain't got one but Rodwell is the nearest. Again it's about balance.
His body language tells me he's not happy with his form and maybe other things but I haven't seen him 'looking at his boots when play is near to him'.
He certainly hasn't let me down. He's entertained me more than most of our players. It's more like Moyes letting him down by not allowing him to play to his strengths.
The final point is the answer to why he get's so much stick I think. We obviously should have sold him with Pienaar - then we'd see how good we are!
In order :
It's also about movement from the other players and a question of balance.
It's not 4 months. He was fine up until the Arsenal game and had a great Derby game at Goodison. Since then he has struggled a bit but has played ok in some of the games such as Spurs at home.
As I have said his set pieces have always been a problem. Moyes should have sorted this out a long time ago. Apart from Baines who else can take them (Osman was poor when tried, maybe Coleman could be given the chance). Maybe it's a reflection on the other players lack of crossing ability.
He's not the get at them type of player that's why he needs a tigerish type of player next to him in midfield. We ain't got one but Rodwell is the nearest. Again it's about balance.
His body language tells me he's not happy with his form and maybe other things but I haven't seen him 'looking at his boots when play is near to him'.
He certainly hasn't let me down. He's entertained me more than most of our players. It's more like Moyes letting him down by not allowing him to play to his strengths.
The final point is the answer to why he get's so much stick I think. We obviously should have sold him with Pienaar - then we'd see how good we are!
The main points I agree with are:
1. Fellaini has been playing very well this season and appears to be playing better than Arteta
2. Arteta has been playing well below his normal standards.
3. Expectations are very high for Arteta, particularly since his new contract renewal. Arteta is not performing at the level his contract rewards.
Will Arteta come good? I hope so however I wonder if he needs a break? He certainly needs a kick up the arse or a repositioning.
1. Fellaini has been playing very well this season and appears to be playing better than Arteta
2. Arteta has been playing well below his normal standards.
3. Expectations are very high for Arteta, particularly since his new contract renewal. Arteta is not performing at the level his contract rewards.
Will Arteta come good? I hope so however I wonder if he needs a break? He certainly needs a kick up the arse or a repositioning.
Let's face it nobody has been playing great consistantly over 90 minutes nor any number of games otherwise we would be winning more.
Sure some players have had their moments but generally overall most have not put in a good season even Fellaini. The whole team and the tactics of Moyes have been found wanting and every game has been difficult even against the bottom three.
Arteta played better in the last 2 games but still not the player he was.
If Coleman is to continue as a right winger then we need a good right back as neither Neville nor Hibbert are good enough. Hetinga is shaky at times and we need a fully fit Jags back soon. Hopefully Cahill comes back unscathed which should help but a big improvement from the team as a whole is what is needed just to consolidate our mid-table status which is all we deserve.
Sure some players have had their moments but generally overall most have not put in a good season even Fellaini. The whole team and the tactics of Moyes have been found wanting and every game has been difficult even against the bottom three.
Arteta played better in the last 2 games but still not the player he was.
If Coleman is to continue as a right winger then we need a good right back as neither Neville nor Hibbert are good enough. Hetinga is shaky at times and we need a fully fit Jags back soon. Hopefully Cahill comes back unscathed which should help but a big improvement from the team as a whole is what is needed just to consolidate our mid-table status which is all we deserve.
I agree Ged. Fellaini is good because of his height and winning 50:50's but he doesn't offer alot else for the amount of money we've paid for him. He offers no creativity, pace and doesn't even track back half the time, which makes him a liability.
Did anyone see the first West Ham goal? Heitinga and Distin were both marking attackers and the next line of defence was Fellaini standing watching Spector make a 10 yeard run infront of him to score the easiest of tap ins! It's no surprise to me that he cost us again and no-one will say a bad word about him.
Did anyone see the first West Ham goal? Heitinga and Distin were both marking attackers and the next line of defence was Fellaini standing watching Spector make a 10 yeard run infront of him to score the easiest of tap ins! It's no surprise to me that he cost us again and no-one will say a bad word about him.
I find some of the comments about Fellaini unbelievable. He dragged us back into the match against West Ham and played a good game. His perfomances for last couple of months have been fantastic.
Comments like "it's no surprise that he cost us again" are ridiculous (#41). On Sat, Coleman (who had a shocker) didn't track properly, Howard should have raced off his line as Boa Morte's touch was poor but he was as usual, slow getting off his line and Heitinga (who should be dropped and doesn't make a tackle and is hesitant) got caught out of position in midfield. How the hell you can blame Fellaini I'll never know. And when has he cost us before? He saved a point and played well, FFS.
Comments like "it's no surprise that he cost us again" are ridiculous (#41). On Sat, Coleman (who had a shocker) didn't track properly, Howard should have raced off his line as Boa Morte's touch was poor but he was as usual, slow getting off his line and Heitinga (who should be dropped and doesn't make a tackle and is hesitant) got caught out of position in midfield. How the hell you can blame Fellaini I'll never know. And when has he cost us before? He saved a point and played well, FFS.
Peter - I'd say over his time with us he's only let us down with silly bookings and red cards, many of which now are given for perfectly good, even great, tackles which the opposing player simulates a foul, ref takes one look at the barnet and gets his book out as it's Fellaini.
Maybe people are refering to the 9 goals he scored for us last season being asked to play completely out of position.......?
I think to a degree it's his style that does or doesn't turn people on. Some of his touches, tackles and passes are sublime in my eyes, others obviously see them as the complete opposite, which is fair enough, but I just can't see it.
The lad is sheer quality and, if we can't see that, we don't deserve to keep him.
Maybe people are refering to the 9 goals he scored for us last season being asked to play completely out of position.......?
I think to a degree it's his style that does or doesn't turn people on. Some of his touches, tackles and passes are sublime in my eyes, others obviously see them as the complete opposite, which is fair enough, but I just can't see it.
The lad is sheer quality and, if we can't see that, we don't deserve to keep him.
Felli is far more exposed than Arteta because he is more involved in the game.
He never hides and is always looking for the ball and IMO is a true box to box MF player.
Arteta's strength used to be he would never lose the ball and could play a killer pass. Unfortunately due to either the injury, his marriage or his over-inflated contract, he has become a shadow of the player he was and I disagree that form is temporary. Look at Joe Parkinson and Paul Bracewell who were never the same players after being out injured for so long.
He never hides and is always looking for the ball and IMO is a true box to box MF player.
Arteta's strength used to be he would never lose the ball and could play a killer pass. Unfortunately due to either the injury, his marriage or his over-inflated contract, he has become a shadow of the player he was and I disagree that form is temporary. Look at Joe Parkinson and Paul Bracewell who were never the same players after being out injured for so long.
Mike, I just don't see the touches, tackles and passes lately.
As I've said before he made a total of 1 tackle in the first half against West Ham and got a booking for it.
5 square passes and 2 overhit. 2 forward passes which came to nothing.
And you really think that can be described as sublime?
As I've said before he made a total of 1 tackle in the first half against West Ham and got a booking for it.
5 square passes and 2 overhit. 2 forward passes which came to nothing.
And you really think that can be described as sublime?
Andrew Laird 17, i did not blame Felliani for the teams ills, i was questioning who was playing the holding role, the player who breaks up the attacks and protects the back four, which we are greatly missing to the extent that even the weakest teams are walking right through us.
On the team sheet, Felliani is in that position but he is doing the Arteta role, So we have two players playing in the same position, just like if we had two right wingers, they just get in each others way and its up to Moyes to sought it out or we are going to be in a relegation dogfight.
On the team sheet, Felliani is in that position but he is doing the Arteta role, So we have two players playing in the same position, just like if we had two right wingers, they just get in each others way and its up to Moyes to sought it out or we are going to be in a relegation dogfight.
Ged, against Spurs an Chelsea in that holding role Fellaini was superb, you are coming to this shout about moving him out of a position he is the best at the club at on the basis of a poor first half against the shite and West Ham
Ged, against Spurs an Chelsea in that holding role Fellaini was superb, you are coming to this shout about moving him out of a position he is the best at the club at on the basis of a poor first half against the shite and West Ham
Howard
Coleman Heitinga Distin Baines
Saha
Coleman Heitinga Distin Baines
Saha
Erased the midfield lol! Not the first time that has happened this season ... right to left - Arteta, Osman, Feliani, Rodwell, Billy
Colin #46 Ok, so this is you what you wrote: "Yesterday and other games, teams are walking right through our midfield like a knife through butter. Why? My opinion is Felliani is not staying in that position, he is stepping in to Arteta's boots, which leaves the balance and the formation in tatters"
please feel free to re read your piece and the responses, so who exactly are you blaming in your opinion Colin?
Why not have the courage to stick by your opinions even if they are not widely held by everyone else?
please feel free to re read your piece and the responses, so who exactly are you blaming in your opinion Colin?
Why not have the courage to stick by your opinions even if they are not widely held by everyone else?
OK, so Arteta's struggled to find form this season. I actually thought he'd started to show a slight improvement on Saturday at first. But am I the only one at Goodison on Saturday who, on occasion, saw both Arteta and Fellaini slow down to a walking pace and look around, exasperated, with arms outstretched waiting for some movement up front? Maybe if forwards made the odd run forward or in the channels they'd have someone to pass to.
And I don't know if there's another club in the Prem who turn on their players like Evertonians do. Not just now, with Arteta, but as far back as Ball, Young, Harvey, Reid, no-one appears immune to the slagging off from the stands. Lets get real, everyone who's played the game at any level will realise that form can be elusive and things just don't happen for you.Regardles of whether you've just had a new contract.
I know, let's slag the player off at every chance. Yeah, that'll help him.
Dickheads.
And I don't know if there's another club in the Prem who turn on their players like Evertonians do. Not just now, with Arteta, but as far back as Ball, Young, Harvey, Reid, no-one appears immune to the slagging off from the stands. Lets get real, everyone who's played the game at any level will realise that form can be elusive and things just don't happen for you.Regardles of whether you've just had a new contract.
I know, let's slag the player off at every chance. Yeah, that'll help him.
Dickheads.
I know. It should have been "regardlesS". I'm not making up a new language.
Andrew. 51. Felliani does not stay in the holding position, and that why teams are running right through us. Hence why Arteta is going through a bad patch.
So it's Fellaini's fault then Colin. Jesus.
As you clearly do not read my posts or try to understand them I will no longer afford you the same courtesy.
As you clearly do not read my posts or try to understand them I will no longer afford you the same courtesy.
Andrew, no player goes out and plays where they like, thats the managers job. so its obvious its not Felliani,s fault.
Thin line between sucess and failure.
6 more goals turning six of those draws ( Wolves, Wigan, West Ham twice, Blackpool and Fulham ? ) into wins and we would have another 12 points and be fourth.
You'd all be cheering then.
6 more goals turning six of those draws ( Wolves, Wigan, West Ham twice, Blackpool and Fulham ? ) into wins and we would have another 12 points and be fourth.
You'd all be cheering then.
Colin, try watching any footage of a match where DM has put Osman on the wing, fast forward a few minutes and play the "Where's Ossie?" game. Watch the FA Cup Final against Chelsea and look at Hibbert's face trying to play it realising Malouda is running straight at him again and again, watch the first half against West Ham this weekend gone and watch Baines' face wondering where his winger has gone and again when Anichebe appears there instead.
Brian #34 I suppose I mean in the Patrick Vieria style, he would easily fit into a top side as a holding fulcrum of the team and have some of those other world class types you mention doing all the glamorus stuff! I hope he stays with us for a long time, but fear a big bid will come in for him in the next year or two.
In my opinion, Fellaini will develop into a very good modern game defensive midfielder, I say modern game because nowadays you get red cards for bookings and bookings for full-blooded solid tackles, which Felli is useless at. Let's not forget Fellaini is still a young lad and learning his trade; he's got a good control, good ability on the ball and can pass, he's never going to be a Roy Keane, Scott Parker, Lee Carsley sliding into, flying into challenges -- it's not his style, not his game... he's a lanky continental ball player and is and will be a great asset to the team.
Arteta has proved his footballing qualities and is a classy silky spaniard he's just lacking form and a player to play on the same wave length some of the best football I have ever seen played at Goodison was when Arteta, Pienaar, Baines were linking up, I think at the minute he's lacking confidence and form and for some reason will not play a forward pass on the deck or in the air, I can't remember the last time I seen a through ball over the top from the middle of the park, Moyes and his staff should be seeing this and doing something about it I'm not saying go back to the big dunc long ball days but for god's sake mix it up. Arteta's not world class but he's the best footballer we currently have so let's get behind him and the rest of the team, it's down to moyes to set them up right and kenwright to get reinforcements if they don't get their fingers out fast we're in a relegation battle
Arteta has proved his footballing qualities and is a classy silky spaniard he's just lacking form and a player to play on the same wave length some of the best football I have ever seen played at Goodison was when Arteta, Pienaar, Baines were linking up, I think at the minute he's lacking confidence and form and for some reason will not play a forward pass on the deck or in the air, I can't remember the last time I seen a through ball over the top from the middle of the park, Moyes and his staff should be seeing this and doing something about it I'm not saying go back to the big dunc long ball days but for god's sake mix it up. Arteta's not world class but he's the best footballer we currently have so let's get behind him and the rest of the team, it's down to moyes to set them up right and kenwright to get reinforcements if they don't get their fingers out fast we're in a relegation battle
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1 Posted 23/01/2011 at 22:29:07
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Arteta is falling way below the mark. He is appalling at set-pieces and I know the feeling of frustration / irritation at those hopeless corners and free kicks