The Mail Bag
Ray Wilson, superb left back
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Not a lover of that arrogant prick, Steve Curry, but he was on TalkSport the other day and the subject came up about left backs. As we know, Cashley Cole is now the record holder for left back appearances taking over from Kenny Samson in an England shirt.
Curry went on about how many left backs he's watched over the years and Ray Wilson's name came up. Curry then went on to say that Wilson was superb for England and not as good as he was for his club Everton. Now this confused me a bit, as my dad who passed away in 2002 aged 72 loved Ray Wilson and believed for many years that Ray Wilson was the best ever left back for Everton.
His Everton buddies were of the same thinking and wherever I've gone, our older fans can only give their memories of how great Ray Wilson was for Everton. I've been to functions and watched fans queue for a photo and autograph. I've been at Wembley and again, watched fans rush up to him and praise him for what he did at Everton.
I've heard so many fans over my 48 years tell me how great Ray Wilson was. So who was Curry watching in a Royal Blue jersey? If any of our older fans on here would like to put their view on here, or any fan who has heard great tales of Ray Wilson, then please put your story on here and shut that prick up. Ray Wilson was superb for England, and to nearly all our fans who had the pleasure to watch him, he was also 'EQUALLY' superb for Everton.
Rant over and I look forward to your stories that will prove that Ray Wilson is a Royal Blue Legend.
Thank You.
Dave Charles, Posted 10/02/2011 at 09:43:20
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Got my confused head here ? you say 'Curry then went on to say that Wilson was superb for England and not as good as he was for his club Everton'.
I read that as he was superb for England (he was) but not as good as he was for the Blues ? ie he was even better for us.
Sounds like a very very big compliment for Ray ? or am I missing something?
Some joker rang talk sport and said what about Cashley? ... nearly crashed me car!
Mike. If I read it properly, I'm saying that he was equally good for both. I found Curry's view a bit too much in saying that he (Ray Wilson) played better for England than he did for Everton. A pathetic view when he must have only watched him a few times in an Everton shirt compared to fans who had watched for many a game.
I didn't hear the interview but I guess the interviewer implied that Wilson was better for England, based on your annoyance.
However, you're wording suggests that the interviewer implied Wilson was better for Everton.
So which is it? Are you more of an Everton or England fan?
Spot on, Trevor: Southall, Parker and Wilson would be in my choice for the greatest Everton side that I've ever seen. Gary Stevens, for his athleticism or Tommy Wright would run Parker fairly close, but Wilson and Southall were peerless.
Can you remember what you did yesterday?
Thing I always remember about Wilson was that he never "wasted" a tackle. He had a knack of sliding in, hooking his leg around the ball, the winger would go arse over tit and Wilson would be up and away on the attack.
Most defenders at that time and before just had a tendancy to go through the man and main stand and into Goodison Road. Yes, classy stuff too!
I love a smart arse.
"Curry then went on to say that Wilson was superb for England and not as good as he was for his club Everton."
You need to take the 'as he was' bit out.
I am no misty-eyed Evertonian but if I was picking an all-time team to save my life, Ray and Alan Ball would be in it.
Dave: please carefully re-read your OP and then answer this re what Curry said:.. or is it the other way around?
a) That Ray Wilson played better for Everton than England;
2) That Ray Wilson did not play as well for England as he did for Everton.
Which is it?
I share the confusion of Mike Byrne, Chris McCullough and Michael Kenrick, and don't understand Dave Charles' post 13 at all.
Dave, you write one thing, then react to it as if it was something else, so no, it isn't obvious what you're saying.
On another note, I was just thinking how good Leighton Baines is, and considering my personal experience of understanding football properly begins in earnest in 1990, I've never seen a better Everton left back. Anyone got an opinion on how he compares to the likes of Wilson, Van Den Hauwe, and others who actually won trophies? (Don't bother including Gary Ablett...)
I think re Baines, he's rather good... but he might not be as good for Everton as Ray Wilson was for England.
No wait....
Oh, I've done it again, haven't I.
If memory serves me right, he won a trophy at a World Cup for being the most accomplished player. Not sure if it was the one in 66 or 62. Everyone probably already knows that he was the only member of England's WC winning team to have been transferred, and that was to us. Before anyone jumps the gun, I know Bally started his career elsewhere before as a youngster he followed his dad who joined Blackpool as a coach/manager.
Southall was the best GK in the world and Ray Wilson and Alex Parker were two of the best full-backs I've ever seen.
Excellent in the tackle, great on the ball, and perfect crosses every time.
If only we could find a video of them both and send it to Mikky to learn how to cross a ball properly and at the right height.
Interesting how modern diet, fitness levels etc, seem to mean that players of 29 now are expected to have a good four or more years ahead of them.
On the other hand, Ray's tackles were applied with precise expertise that left opponents unhurt yet wondering what the hell had just happened.
I too was confused because you are contradicting yourself the way it is written.
He wasn't being a smart arse and one wonders what you might be on given your reaction.
I actually didn't see anything wrong with Dave Charles' original post initially, but after reading the rest of the comments, I'm beginning to understand why other posters felt he was contradicting himself.
Perhaps changing the ?and? to ?but? would help, i.e:
?... Curry then went on to say that Wilson was superb for England BUT not as good as he was for his club Everton ??
Dave, maybe that will help you to understand the confusion that came about... but hey! Have a smile cos some people do understand you the first time round :)
For great left backs what about Pat Van Den Hauwe. Great skills going forward, great tackler, good in the air, complete psycho at times (but me thinks reputation pre-ceded him a bit more than the reality).
He was definitely better for Wales than he never played for Belgium.
In the 70s we had Mike Pejic who put in a good shilft ? at least compared to the calamatous left backs we had around that time ? step forward Tiger McLaughlin ("oh no don't give it to Tiger" was a common exasperated cry at the time).
Marcus Choo your assertion appears incorrect.
I'm too young to have seen Ray Wilson play but it is great to read from the likes of Trevor Lynes and Ray Roche how brilliant he was from people lucky enough to have seen him play in the Royal Blue.
What a contrast to today's financial madness when the likes of Ashley Cole stated in biography that he nearly crashed the car when he heard Arsenel were 'only' offering him 50,000 pounds a week wages! To think Ray Wilson, a better left back and World Cup Winner, went on to be an undertaker after his playing days to earn a living...
Unless he suggested that he could only really be arsed playing his best in a national team strip, which no-one is suggesting for a second.
TalkSport is a horrible programme with a complete bias towards London football teams, hosted by people who have no idea about football whatsoever.
In a music poll their stupid listeners would probably vote for The Spice Girls as being the greatest vocal group of all time!
I like Baines but Moyes got it spot on when he said Baines is second best to Cole. (But he still shouldna said it in public!)
Your assessment of Ray Wilson's expertise is equally applicable to that of Alex Parker's. Many opponents were left feeling just as bemused after an Alex Parker special.
I had the privilege of meeting Alex at one of the Hall of Fame dinners at the Adelphi and, when I complimented him on his tackling, he modestly said, "I was faster on my arse than on my feet." The photo I had taken alongside Alex that evening, has pride of place among my football souvenirs.
Ray Wilson was indeed an excellent left back but, as with any other player, greatness is a matter of opinion; he certainly (along with Terry Cooper of Leeds United) was as good as any left back I have seen in my 63 years of watching football.
Do I remember correctly, he became an undertaker after retiring?
Don't forget Derek Mountfield... he was a fine centre half and scored 14 goals in a season for us.
I am not sure what full back named Alex Parker you watched "flying through the air with his two-footed tackles" but it CERTAINLY was not the great Alex Parker, who joined us from Falkirk! I would certainly like to hear from those who watched him and who agree with you!
For in my humble opinion he was the finest exponent of the strong, perfectly timed sliding tackle that it has been my privilege to witness. His ability in this area of the game was quite remarkable, as was the fact that the worst drubbings of his career ? again in my humble opinion ? were administered by a young man rarely able to wear the red shirt of Liverpool in a competitive match ? namely one young Johnny Morrissey in the Floodlit Cup Finals that brought the two clubs together before both were in the old First Division.
To say Alex Parker was a "flying two-footed tackler" is beyond comprehension for he was the consumate full-back. Any comments from other oldies would be warmly welcome!
Also have to agree with Dennis Stevens (hard working inside-right?!) that the tragedy for Everton was that the great Ray Wilson came to Everton just too late for the club to enjoy the riches of his talents for as long as they should/could have? Neverthless, after 13 years with Huddersfield, in his four full seasons at Everton he continued to grace the game, he was a great athlete, beautifully balanced and graceful yet tenacious in his defensive play ? he was a true star.
Anthony, I did not see the Floodlit cup finals you refer to, as I was serving in the army (Cyprus 1957-59), but I have had many Red friends tell me about them.
Incidentally, shortly after Alex Parker was signed by Everton (June 1958), he too was posted to Cyprus and didn't make his debut until November of that year.
I came home on leave in December and by that time Alex was playing at right-half, I believe his international career was ended prematurely by his being asked to play out of position, as he never represented his country again.
I never saw Alex Parker, but Ray Wilson was the best left back in all of world history, at both ends of the park. Somehow can't imagine Cashley following him into the mortuary business...
In the early 60s, some really well respected sage ? again the age memory thing, who he was defeats me, but he was a 'name' ? said (remember football was a bit different then): "Give me Parker and Wilson as fullbacks and I will give you a League Championship."
Just as there are now rankings for everything, there was and maybe still is (though money, hype and publicity rule) an 'unofficial' consensus that 'xxxxxx' is the best (fill in position / type ) in the world... eg: Pele, Lev Yashin, Puskas Gento, etc etc.
So, for a period of time, Ray Wilson was the Best Left Back in the World.
And, in my opinion, Southall and Ratcliffe were the best in the world for a few.
Just as for an all too brief moment in time, we were the best Club side in the world.
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1 Posted 10/02/2011 at 14:38:16
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