The Mail Bag
The Collapse of Another 'Free' Development
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I just wanted to gauge people's opinion on the so-called 'free' development poutside the Park End, and its subsequent collapse. It's another failed promise and mis-management from the club, to go with NTL, FSF, Kings Dock, Kirkby etc...
I wonder when Robert Elstone will get wheeled out to tell us it's just moving offices, it's just a few legal issues... or when the club will actually come out and admit it's fallen through? This also means that the proposed new car park on Spellow Lane will not happen, the club can't redevelop the corporate boxes, and they will have to keep paying Agent Johnson for use of Everton One.
How many more times are we going to allow this to happen to OUR CLUB?
Martin Graves, Posted 10/05/2011 at 14:40:22
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Shaun, he's probably asking Neville for a few tips on how to beat City.
He copies everything else we do.
He copies everything else we do.
If the Redknapp bit's true, he's welcome to him if he gives us Sandro!
These pricks that 'run' our club just lurch from one disaster to another.
Yet we still have supporters that blindly back Bungling Bill and his gang of useless yes men.
Yet we still have supporters that blindly back Bungling Bill and his gang of useless yes men.
Ste the problem is its 75% plus that follow him, nothing is going to change! What you find is that on here the general consensus is that change is needed; on the streets of Liverpool and at the games, it's a landslide in favor of the current set up!
Shaun @ No1.....are you telling us kebab face is in town?
Ste, just because a lot of fans don't agree to call him all the twat's under the sun doesn't mean they follow him.
He is useless, has no "real" money but in the end he is probably as much a puppet in this club too.
He is like that Peter Kay, Uncle Knobhead sketch.
He is useless, has no "real" money but in the end he is probably as much a puppet in this club too.
He is like that Peter Kay, Uncle Knobhead sketch.
This story was reported on KEIOC this week and elaborates on the reason's as to why the development has floundered. Something to do with the securitization of Goodison Park and the fact that the Club is unlikely to hold the freehold therefore precluding the development to go ahead. Another example of the Club not having a pot to piss in and possible further evidence that every asset has been hawked off to service the debt.
And the money they lost by taking the tent down and starting to knock the wall down, bloody farcial and we have lads on here telling us it`s a well run ship....good Lord.
Could this actually be something positive? New owners coming in and don't want this?
I am informed, on good authority, that the fiasco centres on the fact that all the planning had been done, construction ready to go ahead when the club were asked, "What are you doing? You do not own that piece of land." ? Apparently it belongs to Barclays Bank!!!
Hence the reason for the stoppage & no explanation given. So there it stands, yet another fine idea to take the club forward bites the dust. When will this end? ? it is absolutely appalling. File this alongside all the other great projects from recent years. Embarrassment or what?
I'm sure, the Echo's already on the case, and is producing another hard hitting piece of investigatory journalism, uncovering the truth.
Or failing that, we could always see if Bobby Elstone is free for a natter over a cuppa and a biscuit.
Or failing that, we could always see if Bobby Elstone is free for a natter over a cuppa and a biscuit.
A lot of people were placated by the absolute garbage Elstone spouted at the 'Fans Forum'. People even praised Elstone for his "honesty"!!!!!
Well I hope everyone can now see what a sham Elstone is and how much of a puppet he is for Kenwright and his endless bullshit.
The next lie to be uncovered will be the bit about only Moyes having the say on who gets sold this summer.
Well I hope everyone can now see what a sham Elstone is and how much of a puppet he is for Kenwright and his endless bullshit.
The next lie to be uncovered will be the bit about only Moyes having the say on who gets sold this summer.
Too right, Alan. This grinning gobshite Elstone is just a Yes-man puppet for Kenwright and his cronies.
No doubt he'll emerge in the next few days trying to put his usual positive spin on it.
No doubt he'll emerge in the next few days trying to put his usual positive spin on it.
We are Sheffield Wednesday waiting to happen and are sleepwalking to potential oblivion. There is only one man stopping that and we all know who that is. Some people believe he is the barrier between us jockeying for a top 4 spec. I believe he is the glass floor that keeps the club from possible freefall.
We are financially a powerhouse Championship outfit. This has been going on for over 20 years since Keown was sold to Arsenal to appease the banks, as was Jeffers, Ball, Dunne, Ferguson, Rooney... and we can add to that list soon, no doubt.
We have been prevaricating over a ground move for nearly the same period. The last time the shit hit the fan, Moyes pulled it out of the bag with 4th and saved Kenwright's bacon.
It seems to take the threat of relegation to exercise the Evertonian masses who are currently stoned on occasional European football and upper mid-table finishes.
I believe it's not possible to progress anymore and flat-lining or slow decline is the future, and that?s with a manager who has proved he can compete, in any way/style possible mind, toward the top end with the equivalent of shillings and sixpence. Maybe the summer will provide the adrenaline shot we, the fans, require. This club has needed a revolution all my adult life.
The powers that be just stumble from one cock-up to another! It makes my heart sad to see MY club, the club I love, the club that I have spent thousand of pounds following over the years, go from one failed plan to another. I beg that someone, somewhere, sooner rather than later can put the cash on the table and turn our great club into the powerhouse of football that it once was again.
Enough is enough; someone needs to standup and be counted and in this case, like many, it is the board where the blame can be found. It is time for the voice of many to unite and call for the heads of the board!
Rant Over!
Board Out!!!!!
Enough is enough; someone needs to standup and be counted and in this case, like many, it is the board where the blame can be found. It is time for the voice of many to unite and call for the heads of the board!
Rant Over!
Board Out!!!!!
Charles hits the nail on the head. Bloody embarrassing, what a shambles this club's management is.
The arguement that they are doing their best under tight circumstances and at least not getting us into massive debt doesn't wash with me.
Kenwright's has been at the helm for a considerable time. If he didn't have Moyes working miracles for him he would have us in the Championship.
How many bloody false horizons are going to be shown to the fans. I don't give two shits if he and the board love the club. To be a success in modern football a club needs to be well run, innovative and ambitious.
Leaves me feeling very powerless as a fan. Even if the entire fan base joined together and pushed Kenwright out, I don't see any alternative solution.
The arguement that they are doing their best under tight circumstances and at least not getting us into massive debt doesn't wash with me.
Kenwright's has been at the helm for a considerable time. If he didn't have Moyes working miracles for him he would have us in the Championship.
How many bloody false horizons are going to be shown to the fans. I don't give two shits if he and the board love the club. To be a success in modern football a club needs to be well run, innovative and ambitious.
Leaves me feeling very powerless as a fan. Even if the entire fan base joined together and pushed Kenwright out, I don't see any alternative solution.
This is honestly abject failure.
What business doesn't check into planning permits and "freeholds". In the USA we have permits with various local and county authorities. I've no clue what a "freehold" is but it sounds like the "right" of an owner to develop his property / building.
How the fuck do you announce a development initiative without checking on something like this?
GROSS mismanagement. Embarrasing as hell.
Being naive I stand to be corrected, but this surely should have been checked into and cleared before announcing the developement. God this gets under my skin! SO incredibly stupid!
What business doesn't check into planning permits and "freeholds". In the USA we have permits with various local and county authorities. I've no clue what a "freehold" is but it sounds like the "right" of an owner to develop his property / building.
How the fuck do you announce a development initiative without checking on something like this?
GROSS mismanagement. Embarrasing as hell.
Being naive I stand to be corrected, but this surely should have been checked into and cleared before announcing the developement. God this gets under my skin! SO incredibly stupid!
I wasn't overly excited about this development, it seemed pretty stupid, but like Kirkby (another idea I really wasn't keen on) BK and co have fucked up again.
I'd like to know how much money gets wasted on these fuck ups. With architects and developers and a whole host of 'pre-build' costs, the amount of money lost on KD, DK, this Park End piece of shit etc must be pretty significant by now??
I'd love to see. If those figures were released surely it would be the straw that broke the Camel's back as far as Kenshite and his cronies are concerned?
I'd like to know how much money gets wasted on these fuck ups. With architects and developers and a whole host of 'pre-build' costs, the amount of money lost on KD, DK, this Park End piece of shit etc must be pretty significant by now??
I'd love to see. If those figures were released surely it would be the straw that broke the Camel's back as far as Kenshite and his cronies are concerned?
Jamie #16, freehold means that you own the title to the land and are able to do what you want on it (subject to planning permission) as opposed to leasehold which means you rent it and can only make changes if the owner allows.
In this case I suspect that the title is probably in the name of the Club, but that it's mortgaged to the hilt with Barclays and their permission is required to do anything with the land as part of the mortgage arrangements.
Sort of makes you wonder where the money for Desperation Kirkby would have come from because one of the sources of funds was touted as the sale of GP along with Bellefield.
Well the money from Bellefiled has already disappeared down a black hole and it looks like any money from GP would only go straight to the bank.
KENWRIGHT OUT
In this case I suspect that the title is probably in the name of the Club, but that it's mortgaged to the hilt with Barclays and their permission is required to do anything with the land as part of the mortgage arrangements.
Sort of makes you wonder where the money for Desperation Kirkby would have come from because one of the sources of funds was touted as the sale of GP along with Bellefield.
Well the money from Bellefiled has already disappeared down a black hole and it looks like any money from GP would only go straight to the bank.
KENWRIGHT OUT
It will be interesting to see how the Echo approach this utter joke after having received shit off the club over finally telling it how it is and receiving a ban from the club.
I would also like to see the Billy lovers who only last week on here were still sticking up for him. This is not just some little admin mistake, this has yet again cost us thousands in gross missmanagement but, hey ho, Billy means well, he is one of us... do me a fucking favour.
He is making us a laughing stock again and his supporters are just as bad.
If as stated we don't own the freehold to allow us to build, then just who does?
To me that means if we can't, they can, they could come along and build on any space in the foot print any thing they like and we could do jack shit about it.
Nice one Bill.
To me that means if we can't, they can, they could come along and build on any space in the foot print any thing they like and we could do jack shit about it.
Nice one Bill.
Could this REALLY be the case - that Everton don't own the land and Barclays DO? (Charles Hynes - 11).
I personally can't believe it, I mean even cunts as useless as those 'in charge' at Everton, MUST know what they do and don't own.
I mean I am in NO doubt AT ALL that I DON'T own Sefton Park....but if I DID, I have a feeling I'd definitely know I did.
I mean ffs, there could NEVER, EVER be any confusion about 'do I own it or not?'
NONE!
I personally can't believe it, I mean even cunts as useless as those 'in charge' at Everton, MUST know what they do and don't own.
I mean I am in NO doubt AT ALL that I DON'T own Sefton Park....but if I DID, I have a feeling I'd definitely know I did.
I mean ffs, there could NEVER, EVER be any confusion about 'do I own it or not?'
NONE!
Having a leasehold doesn't preclude one from building on land...
No doubt there's some sort of cock-up (as it is our chairman ? the smiling assassin) ...but the assertions above are incorrect.
No doubt there's some sort of cock-up (as it is our chairman ? the smiling assassin) ...but the assertions above are incorrect.
I'm no expert but I'd hazard a guess that if you own a property, or a piece of land, that a second party has a charge over, a lender for example, you wouldn't be in a position to offer the freehold to a third party who intended to develop it and charge a commercial fee, a lease for example. You'd have thought that all parties would ensure their rights were secure and enforceable, just a thought.
I recall the famous "Who's the clown, Roger?" call to the Philips phone-in several years ago.
"Hello to John from Kirkby."
"Who's the clown, Roger? Tell me. Just who's the clown?"
"Er?...."
"I mean, they emptied the people out, right? Yeah? Then they took the windows out, right? And unscrewed all the doors and that, right? All dead careful, like. Took them months. Yeah? All carefully planned and tha. Gave the impression that they knew what they were doing and all tha. Hard hats and hi-vis jackets and stuff..."
"And what's your subject again, John...?"
"...no don't interrupt, Roger, and then, right, they loaded the whole place up with dynamite and stuff and they handed the leaflets out to all the locals telling them that there'd be a blast when the tower block would come down and then, just as they're about to push the button, right, some suit comes along from the mobile phone company and reminds them that there's a dirty big phone mast on the top with a 100-year agreement for it to stay in place which means the flats can't now come down. I mean, who's the clown, Roger? Tell me, just WHO. IS. THE. CLOWN?"
Click.
"Hello to John from Kirkby."
"Who's the clown, Roger? Tell me. Just who's the clown?"
"Er?...."
"I mean, they emptied the people out, right? Yeah? Then they took the windows out, right? And unscrewed all the doors and that, right? All dead careful, like. Took them months. Yeah? All carefully planned and tha. Gave the impression that they knew what they were doing and all tha. Hard hats and hi-vis jackets and stuff..."
"And what's your subject again, John...?"
"...no don't interrupt, Roger, and then, right, they loaded the whole place up with dynamite and stuff and they handed the leaflets out to all the locals telling them that there'd be a blast when the tower block would come down and then, just as they're about to push the button, right, some suit comes along from the mobile phone company and reminds them that there's a dirty big phone mast on the top with a 100-year agreement for it to stay in place which means the flats can't now come down. I mean, who's the clown, Roger? Tell me, just WHO. IS. THE. CLOWN?"
Click.
It is NOT our club anymore it's Bill's toy and he's playing with it...!
The Lawyers must be laughing all the way to the bank when Bill calls, because it's effectively a license to print money whilst having to produce nothing.
Anyone seen Sugar's Money in Football programme? As he says, all clubs are massively precariously positioned, predominantly because wages come to about 90% of turnover.
Unless we get HUGE investment from a billionaire who wants to use us as his plaything, not caring if he loses hundreds and hundreds of millions... then we either load ourselves with debt (as Kenwright has done), or sell our best players, don't replace them and get relegated.
The essence of Premier League football clubs is mismanagement these days I'm afraid, chaps.
Unless we get HUGE investment from a billionaire who wants to use us as his plaything, not caring if he loses hundreds and hundreds of millions... then we either load ourselves with debt (as Kenwright has done), or sell our best players, don't replace them and get relegated.
The essence of Premier League football clubs is mismanagement these days I'm afraid, chaps.
I'm not saying this story isn't true or trying to defend the club, but there a lot of mis-information about this story. First of all, before submitting any planning application you have to give the landowner 21 days notice unless of course you are the landowner. Therefore, none ownership of the land would have been known sometime ago.
Secondly, when you raise finance against land, you don't give up its freehold ownership. A restriction is placed against your 'title' which is held centrally by the land registry. Generally you will require the funder's approval if you wish to do something with the land, that's the restriction.
My concern is that anybody who has any experience of delivering these types of projects would know this, and should have been liaising with the funder long before this project got off the ground; in short, it looks like a fuck-up by the board, and at what cost to the club? For a scheme of this scale a planning application could cost more than £100,000. Looks to me the club has been badly advised by its solicitor.
Restriction's placed on the land by any third party can be viewed by anybody, simply by requesting a copy of the 'title' from the land registry.
Secondly, when you raise finance against land, you don't give up its freehold ownership. A restriction is placed against your 'title' which is held centrally by the land registry. Generally you will require the funder's approval if you wish to do something with the land, that's the restriction.
My concern is that anybody who has any experience of delivering these types of projects would know this, and should have been liaising with the funder long before this project got off the ground; in short, it looks like a fuck-up by the board, and at what cost to the club? For a scheme of this scale a planning application could cost more than £100,000. Looks to me the club has been badly advised by its solicitor.
Restriction's placed on the land by any third party can be viewed by anybody, simply by requesting a copy of the 'title' from the land registry.
Just thinking about this... I suspect this may be the reason why the club maintain Goodison Park can't be redeveloped. Over the years, by borrowing from a number of different financial institutions, the club will have signed up the a number of different restrictions. It may well be that all this means it's easier for the club to seek a new site rather than re-develop Goodison Park.
Does anyone at Everton know what they're doing FFS!?
Why didn't they look into this before planning??
Incredible.
Why didn't they look into this before planning??
Incredible.
Exactly Tommy! It's surreal.
If you don't hold the freehold, surely you MUST know who does. You surely MUST know you need some type of legal, written agreement from the entity that holds said freehold, and surely you MUST get that duck in a row BEFORE you announce the development.
Seriously, supporters should be not only livid at this bungle, but overwhelmingly beside themselves! It's just as Mickey Mouse as it gets.
TY Eric for the quick lesson on freeholds ? appreciated.
Finally, if they don't have the freehold, surley it's the lender they've mortgaged the land against that does. Why on earth would a lender be adverse to development of a property that they hold the rights to? Wouldn't this simply take a phone call and a standard contract signing?
Robert E: "Hi bank dude. Seems we've fucked up. We want to put these brand spanking new offices on the end of Goodison, but you've got the freehold. Bout £9 million or so development. Should increase the value of said property. Even if it doesn't, we'll finance the 9 mil through you and you can take the interest over 20 years. Win-win. Whatcha say?"
Stuffy Bank Dude in Suit: "I'll send the papers over via courier tomorrow. Pleasure doing busniness with you. We're making a hell of a lot of money from you folks, all collaterlized and safe. Have a great day, and call back with any other needs you may have."
Robert E: "You're the fuckin greatest bank dude. Thanks for this, and we appreciate your willingness to finance us to the hilt."
If you don't hold the freehold, surely you MUST know who does. You surely MUST know you need some type of legal, written agreement from the entity that holds said freehold, and surely you MUST get that duck in a row BEFORE you announce the development.
Seriously, supporters should be not only livid at this bungle, but overwhelmingly beside themselves! It's just as Mickey Mouse as it gets.
TY Eric for the quick lesson on freeholds ? appreciated.
Finally, if they don't have the freehold, surley it's the lender they've mortgaged the land against that does. Why on earth would a lender be adverse to development of a property that they hold the rights to? Wouldn't this simply take a phone call and a standard contract signing?
Robert E: "Hi bank dude. Seems we've fucked up. We want to put these brand spanking new offices on the end of Goodison, but you've got the freehold. Bout £9 million or so development. Should increase the value of said property. Even if it doesn't, we'll finance the 9 mil through you and you can take the interest over 20 years. Win-win. Whatcha say?"
Stuffy Bank Dude in Suit: "I'll send the papers over via courier tomorrow. Pleasure doing busniness with you. We're making a hell of a lot of money from you folks, all collaterlized and safe. Have a great day, and call back with any other needs you may have."
Robert E: "You're the fuckin greatest bank dude. Thanks for this, and we appreciate your willingness to finance us to the hilt."
Ha ha Jamie, except Everton would probably call the wrong Bank.
They probably would Tommy. Who could ever forget that infamous threatening e-mail the club tried to send to KEIOC and ended up sending it to a dentist surgery in fucking China instead!!!
Only at our club under this bungling,shitty 'regime'.
Only at our club under this bungling,shitty 'regime'.
Is anybody REALLY surprised?
The only bright side in all this is that it was an odd shaped building sat at a strange angle on that corner and looked like a total after-thought.
What really needs doing is the Park End stand needs another tier on it and enlarging backwards to accomodate the boxes and increase the capacity. That thing they were planning would have stopped that happening.
Another bodge job, this time bodged up by the arch bodgers!!!
The only bright side in all this is that it was an odd shaped building sat at a strange angle on that corner and looked like a total after-thought.
What really needs doing is the Park End stand needs another tier on it and enlarging backwards to accomodate the boxes and increase the capacity. That thing they were planning would have stopped that happening.
Another bodge job, this time bodged up by the arch bodgers!!!
Thats the thing Karl, when I read it, I wasn't at all suprised at this latest fuck-up.
The funny thing is, you just know that whilst BK is in charge, there will be many more fuck-ups along the way.
The funny thing is, you just know that whilst BK is in charge, there will be many more fuck-ups along the way.
I just got done with my work day and logged on.
There's so many typos and mis-spellings in my post it's embarrasing. Apologies, but I type fast and never have time to spell-check...
There's so many typos and mis-spellings in my post it's embarrasing. Apologies, but I type fast and never have time to spell-check...
Gary #30, a layman like me knows that, even anyone who has ever bought a house on a mortgage would know what you're saying is correct.
So how come the Club don't? Amazing!
So how come the Club don't? Amazing!
With a bit of luck this will mean the end of the exclusivity agreement with Kitbag as well. I mean only this bunch of clowns would lock us into a retail agreement which means that you only buy Everton merchandise online or at two stores. After all, how are we meant to increase our fanbase when you can't see or get the kit in many places?
Does that mean that Everton are part of the sub-prime property market which got the world into this mess?
Kitbag. Go to their website. Not a single Everton thing on the home page. Now yes Barca or United are going to shift more merchandise than us but if we were going to sign away this to them you'd think they would try and get us seen.
Also what does this mean for the the actual Park End stand redevelopment? Would this still be possible or could we not do anything as it's on Barclay's land as well?
Also what does this mean for the the actual Park End stand redevelopment? Would this still be possible or could we not do anything as it's on Barclay's land as well?
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1 Posted 10/05/2011 at 15:11:37
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Anyway, on a separate note, a mate has just texted me, apparently he has just seen Harry Redknapp come out of a restaurant and head to his car, whilst Phil Neville pulls into the car park... Hmmm why do it in the open if true?