Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Putting some money in to the club
39 Comments: Here's a thought: We have all seen the comments about BK not putting his hand in his pocket for the club and Elstone not having any commercial sense. Well the BBC have done a survey on prices and we are almost 50% cheaper than Liverpool.
So why don't we do a deal with BK and the board and tell them we are all happy to pay, say, 30% more (about £10 each) if they match the increased receipts and Elstone can still market us as the cheapest team in Liverpool.
In the last accounts, our gate receipts were about £19M so this would bring about £12M into the club.
Any takers?
Thought not...
John Chambers, Posted 02/08/2011 at 21:10:57
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John, the Club can't borrow the money needed to match your extra tenner for 1 game, never mind 38,000 more tenners every other week.
John,
A pretty daft comment when there is a number of Evertonians talking about setting up a fans trust and pushing for rights issues etc.
I think you would find most would happily put thier hand in thier pocket if it could be shown that there would be some benefit to the club.
Out of curiousity how much do you put in yourself?
A pretty daft comment when there is a number of Evertonians talking about setting up a fans trust and pushing for rights issues etc.
I think you would find most would happily put thier hand in thier pocket if it could be shown that there would be some benefit to the club.
Out of curiousity how much do you put in yourself?
I hesitate to be critical of David Moyes who most of us think has done a spendid job with the team over the last decade. However, I do suspect that his reluctance to `trade` effectively has generally worked against him and is responsible for the present feeling of stagnation amongst supporters.
Recent examples are the failure to cash in on the 2Ys at the right time and price, and before that, the amateur dramatics that surrounded both the Rooney and Lescott departures.
Virtually all clubs rely on the opportunity to 'move players on' to generate funds. Sunderland`s summer transfer binge is because of the sale of Bent to Villa who, in turn, have raised big money from flogging stars like Young and Downing. On the other hand, Moyes insisting on no less than £20M for Jags may be playing hardball but has clearly priced him out of the market.
So, with virtually all our income committed to wages and running costs, transfer cash is the only possible source of quick cash ? or is fear of an immediate bank grab of such income behind the reluctance to trade?!?
Totally agree with you, Doddy. I think you're probably hitting the nail on the head suggesting that the bank would grab the majority of whatever funds our outgoing transfers raise.
So you want me to pay £190 more for my season ticket? (£10 per match)... get ter feck!
Stupid idea..... we are, as the say, at a point in time where one of the arseholes that runs our glorious club will, at some point soon, have to put their hands in their pockets in order to safeguard their investment. Why would you want loyal supporters keeping the rich fuckers' investment afloat by making us dig deeper to look after them? Maybe the Tottenham supporter may do something...
Instead of putting your extra £10 per match into the club put them into a separate bank account. Then all of the supporters can club together in a few years and buy the club.
If not you'll all have a few hundred quid stashed away.
If not you'll all have a few hundred quid stashed away.
Don't put the cart before the horse.
Let's get a proper board of directors that build a team we can be proud of and get the extra 5,000 bums on seats that will be missing this season which should generate about £200,000 per game plus extras (warm Chang etc) and the extra for finishing higher up the league (about £1 mill per place) plus the extra media coverage to build the brand and extra sponsorship that would generate.
We already have foreign billionaires running the club totally ineffectively so a regime change would be a prerequisite to any progress.
Let's get a proper board of directors that build a team we can be proud of and get the extra 5,000 bums on seats that will be missing this season which should generate about £200,000 per game plus extras (warm Chang etc) and the extra for finishing higher up the league (about £1 mill per place) plus the extra media coverage to build the brand and extra sponsorship that would generate.
We already have foreign billionaires running the club totally ineffectively so a regime change would be a prerequisite to any progress.
So Doddy, you're blaming Moyes for the lack of investment from the millionaires on our board? Next you'll be saying Kings Dock, NTL, Fortress Fund and Desperation Kirkby was Moyes fault too!!
"Any takers?
Thought not..."
----------------------------
Posing a question and then answering it yourself, (according to a preformed presumption) would appear to be rather daft to me...
The suggestion that the fans could 'do a deal with the board', also appears to be a serious feat of stupidity. They can't even get an AGM for Christ's sake.
As a supporter, I would certainly be willing to pay towards the improvement of this club. What I'm not willing to do though, is to throw money down a black hole created by incompetency, intransigence, misfeasance and stagnancy.
Next.
Thought not..."
----------------------------
Posing a question and then answering it yourself, (according to a preformed presumption) would appear to be rather daft to me...
The suggestion that the fans could 'do a deal with the board', also appears to be a serious feat of stupidity. They can't even get an AGM for Christ's sake.
As a supporter, I would certainly be willing to pay towards the improvement of this club. What I'm not willing to do though, is to throw money down a black hole created by incompetency, intransigence, misfeasance and stagnancy.
Next.
I am with Jay and Ciaran. I have no problem in principle with supporters, me included, putting money into the club. But a prerequistie of that must be that the current, hopeless, useless Board of Directors must go first.
I have no desire to bail them out, or prop them up, only for them to fail again in two or three years' time.
I have no desire to bail them out, or prop them up, only for them to fail again in two or three years' time.
Everyone, well nearly everyone is feeling the pinch, most cannot even afford what it costs now and you suggest paying more?
Oh dear.
Oh dear.
I would happily put some cash in but I want a share for it. It's a business not a charity ? most charities have a better bank balance and are better run.
But don't you know there is a queue of billionaires just waiting to relieve Kenwright and his chums of their burden? But Bill is so power crazy that he has turned down their money and taken the Club to the brink of bankruptcy. More than that, he has persuaded them all to sign a confidentiality agreement so the world will never hear of his duplicity.
All of it total bollox, of course but, nevertheless, what so many on here would have us believe! I bloody ask you, is this fairyland they live in?
Of the extra £12m, I bet £10m would go on players wages just to keep Baines, Jags, Barkley, etc etc with us.
Doddy, dear me... Exhibit A, DK hearings ? did or did not the CEO say on oath your beloved Black lying bastard Bill had NEVER previoudly put the club up for sale? You just don't get it do you, Kenshite's lips move = bullshit.
He's lost us the KD, nearly dragged us to a shithole in a substandard Championship stadium for the sake of a property scam at the behest of Tesco, a bent council and his supposed "friend of the club"... in 12 years he has virtually bankrupt the club with his harebrained efforts at running this business. Get yourself a copy of the company return, Doddy; makes pretty damning reading, the club is now pretty much worthless due to net debt v assets, a credit rating of 19 as of July 2011, for the uneducated that's a cash preferred business model with no-one in their right mind or loan sharks willing to do any credit deals with it. This has only recently improved from a previous rating of 12 which was probably achieved by no player purchases for two years.
He's lost us the KD, nearly dragged us to a shithole in a substandard Championship stadium for the sake of a property scam at the behest of Tesco, a bent council and his supposed "friend of the club"... in 12 years he has virtually bankrupt the club with his harebrained efforts at running this business. Get yourself a copy of the company return, Doddy; makes pretty damning reading, the club is now pretty much worthless due to net debt v assets, a credit rating of 19 as of July 2011, for the uneducated that's a cash preferred business model with no-one in their right mind or loan sharks willing to do any credit deals with it. This has only recently improved from a previous rating of 12 which was probably achieved by no player purchases for two years.
Gavin - regarding Richard Dodd:
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Doddy ? how many times do you have to be told most supporters do not want a billionaire?
They just want a competent, honest, believable chairman that can develop a business plan and deliver it while communicating effectively with supporters.
Does your love buddy even tick one of those boxes?
They just want a competent, honest, believable chairman that can develop a business plan and deliver it while communicating effectively with supporters.
Does your love buddy even tick one of those boxes?
"But don't you know there is a queue of billionaires just waiting to relieve Kenwright and his chums of their burden?"
---------------------------------
A classic case of sleight of hand...
No-one suggested there was a queue of billionaires, yet you'll just sling that particular petard and run away.
It's more likely the club is in such a state of disrepair, that no-one is willing to touch it with a barge pole... That's the crime. It's not that he won't sell ? it's that he's made it unsellable.
Take your head out of your arse, Dodd.
---------------------------------
A classic case of sleight of hand...
No-one suggested there was a queue of billionaires, yet you'll just sling that particular petard and run away.
It's more likely the club is in such a state of disrepair, that no-one is willing to touch it with a barge pole... That's the crime. It's not that he won't sell ? it's that he's made it unsellable.
Take your head out of your arse, Dodd.
I don`t buy into your alarmist twaddle, Gavram, simply because if things were only half as bad as you enjoy making out, Moyes, Jags, Arteta et al would be queuing up to get out of the door. Instead of which, they proclaim undying loyalty to our cause!
The trouble is that your hatred for Blue Bill colours your judgement of the situation which is really no worse than half the clubs in the Prem.
Perhaps, when such 'bad management' sees us in administration and relegated to a lower league you will find true happiness in saying "I told you so ? it just took 15 years to prove it!"
In the meantime, I shall continue to support my club `as is` ? and now I have to organise another pile of rubbish to be removed!
Hang on Doddy. Our situation no worse than half the clubs in the Premier League?
Aren't we the only club that hasn't signed a single new player? No income streams that aren't owned by banks? No possibility of an arrivals until we sell our best players? OK the RS, Villa, Sunderland even City have sold players - but they have all replaced them well.
Gav Ram may use blunt language but his analysis isn't far from the mark.
Aren't we the only club that hasn't signed a single new player? No income streams that aren't owned by banks? No possibility of an arrivals until we sell our best players? OK the RS, Villa, Sunderland even City have sold players - but they have all replaced them well.
Gav Ram may use blunt language but his analysis isn't far from the mark.
Chris I don't think that anyone, with the exception of the RS and Citteh have improved their squads summer.
You mention Villa and and Sunderland ...
Villa: Downing, Young, Reo-Coker, Friedal and Carew all out, only N'Zogbia and Given in!
Sunderland: Bent AND Welbeck replaced by Whickham? Henderson, Malbranque and Zenden replaced by O'Shea, Brown and Vaughan.
Villa are weakened and Sunderland have just swapped a few players (probably lost their best two) like they do every season. I think Everton are better off than both of these two teams as we have not lost any established first team players, and have consistency in the dressing room. Players should know each other inside out.
You mention Villa and and Sunderland ...
Villa: Downing, Young, Reo-Coker, Friedal and Carew all out, only N'Zogbia and Given in!
Sunderland: Bent AND Welbeck replaced by Whickham? Henderson, Malbranque and Zenden replaced by O'Shea, Brown and Vaughan.
Villa are weakened and Sunderland have just swapped a few players (probably lost their best two) like they do every season. I think Everton are better off than both of these two teams as we have not lost any established first team players, and have consistency in the dressing room. Players should know each other inside out.
Mark,
How are we going to replace Distin, Neville, Cahill etc in the coming few seasons?
How are we going to replace Distin, Neville, Cahill etc in the coming few seasons?
Under the current regime, even when we sell players (Vaughan and Pienaar spring to mind) we can't buy anyone.
Doddy, pay for the credit report then come back and post an article, otherwise its you that is talking utter shite, I have seen a copy and believe me its not good
You could remove the pile of rubbish that masquerades as a chairman could you?
You could remove the pile of rubbish that masquerades as a chairman could you?
Mark,
I dont give a toss about other teams except to say they are evolving while we reduce the size of the squad and stay predicatble.
Ask yourself honestly is this what you accept for Everton Football Club.
A decade of indulgence without any substance whilst asset stripping and loading the club with debt because of inadequate management.
I dont give a toss about other teams except to say they are evolving while we reduce the size of the squad and stay predicatble.
Ask yourself honestly is this what you accept for Everton Football Club.
A decade of indulgence without any substance whilst asset stripping and loading the club with debt because of inadequate management.
Doddy, a few select lines:
Last 3 Years Credit Rating/Limit
Date Rating Limit
31/12/2010 12 £0
31/12/2009 12 £0
31/12/2008 0 £0
Key Financials
Year to Date Turnover Pre Tax Profit
31/05/2010 £79,076,000 -£3,093,000
31/05/2009 £79,669,000 -£6,920,000
31/05/2008 £75,650,000 £26,000
Mortgage Summary
Outstanding 14
The company's credit rating has increased from 12 to 19 but they still fall into a discretionary Credit banding.
The previous 12 month trading period saw a drop in Sales of 0.7%.
In the previous 12 month trading period Net Worth decreased by 13.6%.
A 2.6% growth in Total Assets occurred in the previous 12 month trading period.
Pre-tax profits increased by 55.3% in the previous 12 month trading period
Date of Accounts 31/05/10 31/05/09 31/05/08
Net Worth -£75,044,000 -£66,059,000 -£59,196,000
Working Capital -£40,675,000 -£37,433,000 -35,837,000
Total Assets £64,773,000 £63,107,000 £64,415,000
Total Liabilities £94,547,000 £89,788,000 £84,176,000
Last 3 Years Credit Rating/Limit
Date Rating Limit
31/12/2010 12 £0
31/12/2009 12 £0
31/12/2008 0 £0
Key Financials
Year to Date Turnover Pre Tax Profit
31/05/2010 £79,076,000 -£3,093,000
31/05/2009 £79,669,000 -£6,920,000
31/05/2008 £75,650,000 £26,000
Mortgage Summary
Outstanding 14
The company's credit rating has increased from 12 to 19 but they still fall into a discretionary Credit banding.
The previous 12 month trading period saw a drop in Sales of 0.7%.
In the previous 12 month trading period Net Worth decreased by 13.6%.
A 2.6% growth in Total Assets occurred in the previous 12 month trading period.
Pre-tax profits increased by 55.3% in the previous 12 month trading period
Date of Accounts 31/05/10 31/05/09 31/05/08
Net Worth -£75,044,000 -£66,059,000 -£59,196,000
Working Capital -£40,675,000 -£37,433,000 -35,837,000
Total Assets £64,773,000 £63,107,000 £64,415,000
Total Liabilities £94,547,000 £89,788,000 £84,176,000
Jay, regardless of whether or not you give a toss, this seasons transfer dealings indicate that our situation is not worse than (more than) half the other of the clubs in the premier league. Whether or not it is what I 'accept' is irrelevent. The point is, Doddy was right.
As for how we will replace those players, Danny, well that bridge will be crossed when it arrives. Perhaps after a few seasons of financial astuteness at board level is what it will take for the board to be able to call on the banks when it does. As of yet it hasn't and there is no point trying to second guess. By keeping together the current squad whilst nobody below us has improved (most have gone backwards). I predict 7th. I also predict it would take upwards of £40/£50m (probably even more) to break into even UEFA competition.
As for how we will replace those players, Danny, well that bridge will be crossed when it arrives. Perhaps after a few seasons of financial astuteness at board level is what it will take for the board to be able to call on the banks when it does. As of yet it hasn't and there is no point trying to second guess. By keeping together the current squad whilst nobody below us has improved (most have gone backwards). I predict 7th. I also predict it would take upwards of £40/£50m (probably even more) to break into even UEFA competition.
Mark please explain what indicators you base this seasons transfer dealings in comparison to other sides indicating we are no worse than other teams? The club loaned out a significant number of players, lost one for free, sold two and yet still made a -£3m pre tax profit thats minus 3 million, what would it have been without the loss of those players and saved wages? Bottom line, total liabilities £94.5m v total assets of £64.7m and a £3m per year loss that doesn't look at all healthy.
As far as calling on the banks goes as far back as December 2008 the club's credit rating was zero, in three years it has risen to 19 which is a cash only preffered credit rating, those three years we haven't exactly set the world alight as a astute business; liabilities outstripping assets and net worth dropping. A credit worthy rating before lenders even consider credit against colateral is minimum of 30, at the rate of so called astute management the club would take until 2014, in those two years our playing staff will be two years older and a few of our first team will have left to be replaced by whom? Crossing the bridge when we get to it we then seek credit and add debt to the existing liabilities, using the same rate of increase would stand in the region of £125m and equally total assets would have dropped as would working capital and net worth.
As far as calling on the banks goes as far back as December 2008 the club's credit rating was zero, in three years it has risen to 19 which is a cash only preffered credit rating, those three years we haven't exactly set the world alight as a astute business; liabilities outstripping assets and net worth dropping. A credit worthy rating before lenders even consider credit against colateral is minimum of 30, at the rate of so called astute management the club would take until 2014, in those two years our playing staff will be two years older and a few of our first team will have left to be replaced by whom? Crossing the bridge when we get to it we then seek credit and add debt to the existing liabilities, using the same rate of increase would stand in the region of £125m and equally total assets would have dropped as would working capital and net worth.
should read credit not needing to be against collateral as 30 points
brain in gear and stop concentrating on a six year old and three year old pestering you, should also read 3 years older not 2 years older
No profound indicators Gavin, just the actual players bought and sold by each of the teams. As I have already said, with the exception of Citteh and RS none of the premier league clubs have spent any meaningful sums of money. Certainly none have improved and some have weakened (IE Newcastle, Arsenal and Villa). I will never understand the point of selling your best player to bring in 2 or 3 mediocre ones.
Mark the clubs have very little say these days, look at Fabricarse and Ronaldo both wanting out and the latter went and Man U dipped but lucky for them so did everyone else. Bent wanted out so went; Lescott and Shrek wanted out from Everton and they went.
Clubs have to replace what they have lost but quality isn't always available, alternately look at the RS loosing ladyboy, Cheslki basically bought them two players in Steven Seagall and Suarez overpriced but cover for the role by getting two players.
Mark
Despite you being wrong about only two teams improving this summer, name me one team that hasn't spent money on a player in two years?
As for your comment about astuteness at board level ? you are having a friggin laugh, aren't you?
Despite you being wrong about only two teams improving this summer, name me one team that hasn't spent money on a player in two years?
As for your comment about astuteness at board level ? you are having a friggin laugh, aren't you?
Which clubs have improved Ciaran?
And no I'm not having a laugh. Don't understand what you mean here.; Please expand.
"Mark the clubs have very little say these days, look at Fabricarse and Ronaldo both wanting out and the latter went and Man U dipped but lucky for them so did everyone else. Bent wanted out so went; Lescott and Shrek wanted out from Everton and they went."
Regardless, at Everton, at the moment no-one seems to want out so I wouldn't see the point of selling, for instance Jags, to bring in a two or three mediocre players. Sunderland have sold their two best players and brought in several mediocre ones. Have they improved? No chance. We were better than them last season and we'll be better than them again this season.
Regardless, at Everton, at the moment no-one seems to want out so I wouldn't see the point of selling, for instance Jags, to bring in a two or three mediocre players. Sunderland have sold their two best players and brought in several mediocre ones. Have they improved? No chance. We were better than them last season and we'll be better than them again this season.
Gavram, like me, you are probably sick of our never ending attempts to convince each other that we are right.
What I am waiting to hear is a single plan to take the Club on. The figures you produced seemed to confirm that its shares are worthless and that ANYONE taking over would only be buying debt. If that is so, we are stuck with Blue Bill ? like it or not ? but have you a constructive plan to break that deadlock?
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1 Posted 03/08/2011 at 08:11:34
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