Crystal Palace 2 - 2 Everton
Everton are at Crystal Palace this afternoon in a Premier League contest that might well be their final effort to secure one of the increasingly distant European places.
The irony being that the team they face have just won their way to the final of a European competition. And that of course feeds the disputed theory that their minds may be elsewhere this afternoon after such a heady night of success last Thursday.
Team News
No surprises as Idrissa Gana Gueye sits this one out, as expected. Grealish and Branthwaite are both out for the rest of the season.
Ismaila Sarr and Adam Wharton both start for what looks like a strong Crystal Palace side named by Oliver Glasner. He said he wasn't going to wave the white flag and he has certainly started a much stronger XI than that which began at Bournemouth last weekend.
First Half
The up-and-under kick-off was abandoned in favour of the Pickford punt. No matter: possession still conceded. But Everon got it bck and worked up a laborious attacking move of many passes until Dewsbury-Hall advanced and ran into Munoz. But Mykolenko got in an early cross that skimmed off Beto's head.
Rohl seemed ro do a great 1-2 with Beto but the ball got caught in his feet and went out fror a corner, cleared at the near post, but worked around for another corner after good work by Ndiaye. This one headed on at the near post and fell very nicely for James Tarkowski (6') to side-foot it neatly into the corner of the Crystal Palace goal. It had been all Everton, so fine reward.
At the other end, Wharton lashed a shot over Pickford and his bar. Palace continued to work it around until they too won a corner. A really good delivery that Richards and Tarkowski up with him blocked just over the bar. The next Palace corner was well overhit.
A move up the right for Everton came all the way back to Pickford, his hoof upfield going through to Henderson. Garner committed a foul but it led to an Everton break where somehow Dewsbury-Hall and Ndiaye managed to gift the ball to Whatron.
A great break by Garner down the left saw him cross low between Rohl and Henderson. evading both players.
Johnson got behind the Everton back line but Garner was there to block the danger for another Palace corner that needed defending. It came back in and Lacroix fired in a shot that Pickford had to kick off the line.
Another lively break going the other way again saw Dewsbury-Hall and Ndiaye mess up another great chance, Dewsbury-Hall stretching to shoot weakly at Henderson, who also saved with his foot, allowing Palace to counter.
The game was fairly open in midfield, neither side pressing with much conviction. Garner came off better when he stood up to Wharton, winning a free-kick. An O'Brien long throw reached the 6-yard box but was repelled.
It looked like Mykolenko had stood up a decent hanging cross for Beto but he missed it completely. Rohl looked very confident heading a good Palace ball away from the Everton goal area. Iroegbunam got played through but somehow contrived to shoot for a throw-in, perhaps slicing it off the defender's leg?
Garner tried to take the ball off Johnson but ended up fouling him: yellow card.
Dewsbury-Hall got free again down the left this time but was disappointed with the lack of support and a defender blocked him for a corner. Another good delivery but 3 Everton players went for it at the far post, Tarkowski heading behind.
From that, Palace went up the other end and Sarr scored after his first shot was blocked back to him by Keane. Back to level pegging. No doubt Keane will get it in the neck for that one!
Garner looked to hold back Strand Larsen and then blatantly push him over as he set up to shoot! Yellow card to red and penalty, surely? No, incredibly, he got away with it completely!
A good ball in from Strand Larsen almost gave a free header to Johnson as Palace looked to reverse the early score before half-time, the impetus now firmly with the home side. Everton tried to work it forward but they were not getting the run of the ball they had earlier.
Instead, it was a free shot from Mitchell that was driven straight at Pickford. O'Brien tried to cross and it won a corner that Dewsbury-Hall curled in almost under the bar, Henderson tipping it behind. From the other side, Ndiaye had to score but his off-target header was deflected goalward then cleared off the line.
Another Everton corner was not as dangerous as earlier and Palace looked to break, Mykolenko having to stop Kamada at the cost of a yellow card. That pretty much wrapped up the half in which Everton had manifestly failed to build on a great early lead.
Half-time: Crystal Palace 1 - 1 Everton
Second Half
It didn't take long from the kick-off before a moment of magic from Beto, who got a long ball from Tarkowski to chase down, with Lacroix seemingly well positioned to stop him. But he bustled into space and nutmegged Hederson for a fine strike to start the second half.
Palace were miffed, to say the least, but they could not do what they wanted in their next attack.
A good low cross from Sarr was well stopped by Tarkowski. Canvot then tried a shot that did an Iroegbunam, and went out for a throw-in. Kamada fouled Rohl, setting up a central free-kick for Garner, a great strike that skimmed off Strand Larsen's head and Henderson adjusted well to tip it over.
Ndiaye and Beto forced another corner as Palace tried to play out. That came to nothing but Garner swung in a very tasty cross that Beto should have reached but he ran the wrong way.
Mitchell drew a dangerous free-kick off Rohl that was well cleared with a great throw from Pickford, Dewsbury-Hall again getting forward but again the opportunity evaporated as he was outnumbered.
Palace worked it around, but Kamada wellied his shot high over the bar. A through-ball looked to split the Everton defence but Iroegbunam read it well and got a good tackle in.
A decent enough attack developed when Rohl somehow turned the Palace defender down the right but no one could fashion a shot after it went all around the houses.
Worryingly, Mateta replaced Strand Larsen, and a difficult ball forward spun off Sarr, forcing a desperate save from Pickford. Rohl got on the counter and passed crossfield to Ndaye who trapped it beautifully and skipped around but could only fire at a blocking defender.
Palace won a corner that was headed goalward, Canvot nipping in to head it but Pickford was perfectly positioned to grasp it gratefully. Ndiaye looked to advance down the left with usual mice footwork, but he achecked and it ebede up all the way back at Pickford.
There was a coming together between Tarkowski and Sarr in the Everton area but there was nothing in it. The ball came back down the Everton end, and as simple as you like, there he was, Jean Phillipe Mateta was there to smash it past Pickford, like it was written in the script..
Palace came close to a winner when a good header back in by Munoz was met by Sarr but Pickford was there to save it. Still, the momentum seemed now all back with Palace, as Moyes put George on for Rohl.
Matate mugged Mykolenko and fired in a cross for Sarr, Tarkoski to the rescue yet again. But Everton were living on the edge, Kamada diving cleverly in front of Iroegbunam... no penalty.
Palace kept coming forward, a great cross on for Munoz was headed into the ground and bounced over Sarr at the far post. Close!
Another brilliant tackle (from behind?) by Garner to dispossess Kamada.
A ball from Tarkowski over the top and Dewsbury-Hall must score this time! No, he hit the post!! And Barry had been offside, although he never touched the ball.
At the other end, it looked like Wharton would score the winner with Pickford beaten at full stretch, the ball smacking the outside of the post!
With 5 minutes of dreaded Danger Time added on George fed Ndiaye brilliantly but he lashed his shot over the bar, touched on its way by Henderson. The corner saw a soft header at the far post easily saved.
At the other end, Mateta beat Tarkowski but could not keep his shot down.
Alcaraz advanced and saw his late shot spin off for a corner right at the death, the corner was cleared as that was it. And 2 more points surrendered from a winning position. Surely any talk of Europe is now futile: 2 points from 12.
Crystal Palace: Henderson, Richards, Lacroix, Canvot, Munoz, Wharton, Kamada, Mitchell, Johnson, Sarr, Strand Larsen (65' Mateta).
Subs: Benitez, Lerma, Pino, (65' Mateta) Clyne, Hughes, Riad, Devenny, Cardines.
Everton: Pickford, O'Brien, Tarkowski (c), Keane, Mykolenko [Y:45'], Iroegbunam, Garner [Y:30'], Röhl (81' George), Dewsbury-Hall (90+4' Alcaraz), Ndiaye, Beto (68' Barry).
Subs: Travers, Patterson, McNeil, Dibling, Coleman, Armstrong.
Reader Comments (270)
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2 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:07:07
We are better than Palace.
3 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:13:08
Fingers crossed for 3 points.
Is the Live Forum on and any links? 💙
Editorial Team
4 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:16:31
Needs to be flushed and a resarted from zero.
5 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:17:03
And try to get a chance in the last 10 minutes.
6 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:25:07
Absolutely pathetic.
7 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:25:56
8 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:41:40
I just had to express my outrage!!!
Sigh...
9 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:49:56
No win, no Europe. UTFT
10 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:55:23
11 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:57:35
12 Posted 10/05/2026 at 13:57:38
No disrespect to the other writers on this game but Im used to you giving a column on Evertons prematch game so where is it?
13 Posted 10/05/2026 at 14:04:17
We need that extra stuff, as well as those veiled digs at the lesser Dave.
14 Posted 10/05/2026 at 14:08:12
Absolutely pathetic!
15 Posted 10/05/2026 at 14:46:36
So vulnerable on the counter.
16 Posted 10/05/2026 at 14:51:06
Thought we were comfortable until Keane's one-two with Sarr.
17 Posted 10/05/2026 at 14:54:00
18 Posted 10/05/2026 at 14:54:43
What were Keane and Tarkowski upto for Palace's goal? It's time to move both on and play O'Brien and anyone central as it couldn't be any worse.
19 Posted 10/05/2026 at 14:55:07
That said, we should have been out of sight -- what Dewsbury-Hall was doing with his weak side foot when through on goal only he knows.
20 Posted 10/05/2026 at 14:55:09
Can't say we are not going for it in this game. Possibly a bit too frenetic, even a little gung-ho at times?
Could have done with a lead to defend for the start of the second half. This is going to dig deep into the energy reserves and ability to stay focussed when the fatigue hits. Hopefully their European adventures will have left a deficit in their legs.
Worried about the yellows for Garner and Mykolenko, and Sarr and Strand Larsen being a duel threat. Beto has got to get more involved.
Come on you cardio-monster (fingers crossed) Blues!
21 Posted 10/05/2026 at 14:59:10
22 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:04:50
Not a bad game, the minute the commentator started saying Palaces record after their European semifinals has been poor, I had a feeling that they would score, but I hope this doesnt end up being like the game at Bramley Moore, when Palace battered us for an hour before we scored two late goals, and what a great goal that is from Betttttoooooooooo!
23 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:13:34
24 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:33:13
25 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:34:36
But that makes you a ‘happy clapper' according to Annika (14). What a truly bizarre post.
26 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:41:03
27 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:53:39
Sat back each time we scored.
28 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:53:48
But according to your way of thinking, if you don't like the manager you're not a proper Evertonian.r
If you had half a brain, you would see I was replying, in kind, to Andy's post.
29 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:55:59
Passports back in the draw
30 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:57:43
Will do nothing with those two regardless of the odd goal they get.
31 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:58:25
32 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:58:54
33 Posted 10/05/2026 at 15:59:42
34 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:03:05
Anyone who thinks O'Brien wont be starting at right back can come and see me twice
35 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:04:35
Your bashing of Moyes is bordering on the obsessive, have you ever actually been to a game in your life.
Was it Moyes fault we missed chances galore, no it wasn't and that what ultimately cost us the 3 points.
Yes I'll say it's his fault that he continues to pair them 2 slugs at the back, and that is a crime in itself.
One more question who would you personally want to manage the football club.
36 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:05:38
But how does Iliman not bury that chance at the end….. either side of the keeper and its in and he hits it straight at him…..
Some of our decision making in the final third was poor today. So annoying as Palace are not a good team. We needed Europe to get better signings in the summer and weve shot ourselves in the foot at the end of the season. If only we someone like Wharton alongside James Garner pulling the strings for us.
37 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:09:07
38 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:10:04
39 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:12:47
Stuck with them for 2 more games but both finished.
In saying theyre finished,one of them never got started imo.
40 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:15:50
41 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:17:34
42 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:18:18
After two goals against City the latter was inevitably back to his usual mediocre self.
43 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:18:51
If we want to go further we should look elsewhere.
Tired of being in the doldrums for so long.
I sure that 3 or 4 of our players will be looking for opportunities at a higher level in the summer.
44 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:19:37
Moyes picked the same back four that has shipped goals for weeks, including the terrible pairing of Keane and Tarkowski. 'Criminal' is a good description of that selection decision, but he was not at fault for the result?
We scored 2 goals and would have won the game comfortably with a proper defensive set-up regardless of the chances missed.
Nothing more contemptible than insulting your fellow Blues because they point out the blindingly obvious. Just ask Rob Jones.
45 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:21:07
I hope not, mate.
We need one with really good pace.
46 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:22:51
Hell stll get pcked next week though.
At least we have smashed through that 48 point barrer now. That extra point has cost us £115 million, but worth it.
47 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:24:57
48 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:26:38
We should have won the game easily, but the team that played on Thursday night were definitely finishing the game stronger, imo.
Beto, is much better and more affective at leading the line compared to Barry. NDiaye, had already well drifted out of the game when Rohl, was replaced by George, and it was an absolute insult giving Alkaraz, the last two minutes of the game.
Some good stuff, but its there for everyone to see how exposed we become defensively, once we allow the game to become open and stretched, although I suppose it was a good game for the neutral!
49 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:30:35
One speedy right back, maybe two. One speedy center back, maybe two. Hoping the attacking left back we already have on the bench proves to be the answer.
50 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:31:01
Somebody needs to tell Mr Brightside that you get nothing for a pair of lighthouses....Not in this game
51 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:32:58
When I say top level I don't just mean ability, but what I believe to be players not scared to win. Think of a pro golfer who misses putts in the last round when at the top of the leaderboard. Thats the mentality of our players.
In fact its been the mentality of this club since Joe Royle left. The whole place is scared of winning. Its never, we are going to win this, its always I hope we don't lose.
52 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:33:23
Calling any Evertonian a Red Shite gets you banned.
Suggesting they should support another team only confirms that ban.
53 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:33:30
54 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:35:18
55 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:36:52
I mean when you really look at it honestly, Dewsbury Hall was a decent signing for us but you can see why Chelsea sold him, we are now looking an upgrade on him and others to progress !
Ndiaye was poor again today, Tarkowski and Keane are turning into liabilities.
Alcaraz gets three / four minutes and looked disgusted at being brought on, he showed more in those few minutes that begs the question why Moyes didn't have him on earlier, but all in all Moyes once again showed us he is happy not to lose !
Without doubt Grealish will make a difference to us if he can do a deal for another loan - he's not worth 50million.
If we don't sign a proper right back, then I just don't know, centre back pairing needs an upgrade, Moyes thinks Stones will do that.
I'm not at all surprised by the result, I said after the derby defeat and a few times since, our season would just peter out and it has !
If Moyes is allowed to buy the new recruits, then nothing to get excited about.
56 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:36:53
We don't have those. Yet.
57 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:42:12
Patterson
Obrien
Tarkowski
Keane
Mykolenko
Aznou
Garner
Rohl
An unappealing and limited back 4.
It is either the Moyes back 4, or your robbing Peter to pay Paul, & taking Garner or Rohl out of midfield- and still left with Keane & Mykolenko.
Two gamea to go, but the above needs at least 3 new first choice defensive additions for next season.
58 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:42:22
Our way passed his sell by date shit scared manager sets up not to lose every week...and bizarrely we've lost the same amount of games we've won (more if you consider our embarrassing inept cup runs)...he's had his chance, the last 5 games tells you all you need to know about this rabbit in the head lights
59 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:42:31
All hail Moyes, the best manager we've had since Dyche.
60 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:42:47
These endings are not a bug, as they used to say, they are a feature.
61 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:43:35
I'm sick to death of Ms Herbert and her condescending ways, constantly slagging Moyes and picking holes in his tactics.
Ive asked people like her loads of times whod they like as manager but I never get an answer, or rather I never get a creditable name.
By the way I never wanted Moyes back not for one minute, but hes here and hes exceeded my expectations.
This season was always going to be one of transition what with the stadium move and Moyes 1st window.
But maybe the likes of you and Annika were expecting us to smash teams out of the ground, sorry to upset you but football doesn't work like that just ask our loveable neighbours.
And by the way I'm no happy clapper, far from it how could I be watching the shite weve dished up the last 5 seasons or so.
So Ian one final question who is this manager that is suddenly going to transform us, newscheck there isn't one.
62 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:45:38
This is Dyche 2.0, admit it!
Stop faffing about with confrontational rhetoric that so helpfully repeats past talking points.
64 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:48:53
for me - IRAOLA
65 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:53:40
Might as well keep Moyes if that's the alternative.
66 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:53:52
67 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:56:00
He is a master at making failure sound like success.
68 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:56:05
69 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:56:52
I'd look at Glasner and Maresca. I love Terzic but he signed for Bilbao.
Andy at #61 is right, however. No manager is going to transform this club without a whole bunch of new players.
70 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:57:33
71 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:57:54
72 Posted 10/05/2026 at 16:58:41
73 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:00:56
74 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:01:12
And as for your “I never wanted Moyes anyway” pivot, you have spent the entire season throwng your dummy out the pram at the slightest hint of critcism of him.
Who are you kidding?
75 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:03:13
If you'd have posted that 12 months ago, you'd have been spot on. This Dopey fucker has spent a fortune on players that can't get a game.
John,
Your patience has been rewarded. your question has been answered. Moyes for all his advantages has finally gone past the points accumulated by the beleaguered Dyche. \ r
What an achievement. What a staggering improvement. No wonder they call him the Moyesiah.
What the fuck have we become?
76 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:03:21
I don't need to read what Darren has posted about them being the two slowest defenders in the Premier League.
Until we get ambition, we will continue to be the Everton that was created by Bill Kenwright instead of the Everton that used to have such an illustrious name in English football.
77 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:03:58
78 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:04:20
His substitutions never change, and giving Alcaraz 2 minutes is a complete joke; his pace alone showed what a difference he would have made coming on earlier.
Tim Iroegbunam and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall were running on empty, why didn't he bring Armstrong on?
79 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:04:28
It won't hurt O'Brien. He'll be a fine centre-back.
80 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:05:38
81 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:06:47
This team from the last 2 games is good, we just need a forward and wing-backs. Name another manger who could fight for Europe with Beto and Barry up top!!!
Every manager in the Premier League has better forward options than us and most of them are struggling or worse.
82 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:09:18
83 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:10:34
I have expectations to be entertained; at no point do I expect to smash teams left, right, and centre. £60 plus a game is the cost to be entertained -- not bored senseless with a stiff neck from Pickford's punts upfield.
There's Iraola, Glasner, a number of up-and-coming managers... Brighton's, Fabregas at Como.
My own personal choice is Lee Carsley.
84 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:10:41
I'm not saying I'm right but listen to how many people who say that European football would be too much for us anyway, and see how many people write that they aren't really that bothered when we get knocked out of the cup.
It's generally just accepted, and once this becomes normal, you have become used to accepting anything -- just as long as it means that Everton won't be relegated.
85 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:11:58
Spending £115 mlliion to achieve 1 more point than we earned in 2024/25 and 2023/24 represents failure.
86 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:13:20
87 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:15:32
Had we held on in the last minute of any of the last 3 games, or been given that obvious penalty last match, we'd be somewhere between 1 to 5 points better off and in the mix, but now we're reliant on Brentford, Brighton and Chelsea slipping up.
Hopefully we can win our last two games to try and force the issue though.
TBH I wasn't expecting much from Man City, so it's today, West Ham and the Shite that were the key points dropped. Nonetheless, compared to where we were in last few seasons, top 10 is a definite step up.
If Moyes can get us in the top 7/8 regularly again, as he did last time, then I'm fully behind him.
88 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:15:57
89 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:16:33
This is consistently the best I've seen Everton play since Ancellotti (who some of footballing geniuses on here wanted sacked because he was "the Italian Alladyce"). We look like we can compete. We give other teams a game. Our attack looks like they've previously met each other, the midfield are industrious, and the defence mostly works pretty well.
You want breath-taking, exciting football that wins games? We need 3 things...
1. Klopp
2. 5 years to build the team.
3. £1 billion to build it with.
Also, the M.O.B. will never give the guy a chance, no matter what he does. They're beyond all reason, and I suspect that they'd moan regardless. They're like those Man Utd fans calling for Fergie's resignation because they didn't score enough goals when they won the league. Clueless.
90 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:17:54
If Iraloa was in our dugout today with this same group of players I reckon we would have won this game because he wants to win, Moyes just doesn't want to lose and hopes for the best.
91 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:19:30
I have a bit more but I need to word it right...
First, the disclaimer: I am obviously not the best messenger for this, point taken.
When we go after posters beyond a certain point, the receiver(s) are drawn to the website social/anti-social side of TW. We all contribute to that at our own levels on the scale running from passive-aggressive to direct offensive.
If we, not royal, myself included, can just channel some of that disappointment we have in what people post and just do something to advance the discussion ball, we all play better on the TW field.
There are quite a few on here that know a hell of a lot about football. They tend not to jump in when the handbags are out.
We all suffer from post-traumatic Dyche syndrome. We were weirded out about Bill before that. Moyes has kind of made us all revisit that whole identity thing when we just made our move to the new stadium.
So, when we can, just avoid the ad hominem or just plain antagonistic arguments. Then we will all learn more about football top to bottom because I can't think of a better window than here, at TW and at our Everton.
92 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:25:05
93 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:32:26
Take your pick of any of the young managers above us in the table
94 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:35:51
95 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:36:10
96 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:39:28
97 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:39:45
However, make no mistake, summer will be a difficult one to bring players in, there is the world cup, so movement won't start in the transfer market until near the end of the tournamount (early July), secondly we're not in Europe, that's a very difficult sell. The recruitment team will need to get creative and be savvy. If Moyes is staying on then there will need to be alignment by all parties otherwise I don't see next season being any different to this.
98 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:47:06
Branthwaite and OBren have pace at centre-back, and we have full-backs in Patterson and Aznou with plenty of speed even if you dont like them. Plus, I assume Terzic is capable of adjusting his game plan.
How about Iraola, Glasner, Maresca, Hurzeler? Would they have done a better job with the current squad than Moyes?
You are right we need better players, but Moyes was in the room when every recrutment decision was made last summer. He claimed he had the final say on the £115 mlllon spent on players he then largely refused to play.
I believe the managers I listed would have a done a better job, and 3 of them are stll available today as we speak.
99 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:53:43
100 Posted 10/05/2026 at 17:54:56
If we improve & move on to much better times then Moyes must GO!
101 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:15:53
102 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:17:18
Chicken or the egg? I go for Moyes the chicken.
103 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:26:14
104 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:30:44
105 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:33:59
106 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:34:07
107 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:35:22
108 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:47:08
Infinite pages now.
Expect OBrien at right back and the 2 slugs at the back next season.
Moyes, isnt it.
109 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:48:31
110 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:51:35
Been studying me have you, yes I've called Moyes and why wouldn't I it hasn't all been plain sailing.
But I'm the first to congratulate the team when weve done well and the first to condemn him.
Last thing I'm gonna say on the matter, be careful what you wish for.
111 Posted 10/05/2026 at 18:56:28
Along with stability that one does my head in
112 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:11:16
If you have been entertained by the football that's been served up all season, then look forward to lots more of the same next season if Defensive Dave is still in charge
113 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:17:27
You know, just skip straight on by and then you won't feel they are so tiresome
114 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:18:31
115 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:20:10
116 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:26:03
I could give a full reply to all you have asked. But I won't lower myself to reply to someone who resorts to that type of abuse.
No, I don't like Moyes, that is obvious. Nor am I happy with his safety first tactics that haven't changed in his entire managerial career.
But, if you are happy with limited progress and permanent mid table positions, continue with your happy clapping
117 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:26:11
We had chances to win the game but so did Palace provided by a dilly dally defence with Keane, OBrien and Mylolenko very poor while Tarkowski made mistakes as well but got us out of trouble a few times as well besides scoring a goal and making that long pass up to Beto who did very well to score.
Two matches to go then the relief of not having to watch Everton for three months, there have been some good games but too many boring and lack lustre games as well.
118 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:32:38
119 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:36:26
120 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:47:22
We're not qualifying for the champions league until we spend the money on the players to get us there. The limit of our ambition until then is stability, organisation, and building a platform.
"defensive dave". Great insight. You must have all your UEFA badges.
121 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:51:42
122 Posted 10/05/2026 at 19:54:07
We spent quite a lot in the last summer transfer window, in case you missed that, but our beloved Dave never gives most of them a game.
So will it take the Moyesiah another 10 years just to produce stability, organisation and build a platform? Whilst teams around us continue to evolve and improve?.
123 Posted 10/05/2026 at 20:01:18
young players. The likes of Colin Harvey and Joe Royle got thrown in at an early
age. They must be eternally grateful that Moyes wasnt their manager.
124 Posted 10/05/2026 at 20:20:20
125 Posted 10/05/2026 at 20:27:21
Excellent point, don't to give him the opportunity to proliferate the squad with relegated tired old unsellable pros on 3yr deals...if he had any integrity he'd step down, but when youre one of the best paid managers on the globe why would you?
126 Posted 10/05/2026 at 20:46:02
You don't think the game hasn't moved on though?
127 Posted 10/05/2026 at 20:52:35
128 Posted 10/05/2026 at 20:57:52
Using that same logic, then If youre good enough youre old enough has also applied, but probably not to anywhere near as many managers.
129 Posted 10/05/2026 at 21:11:25
I think it's much harder now for a player to make the break through because you really have to have an old/wise head on a very young kid to make it unless of course you're exceptional.
I actually think managers are getting younger or perhaps I'm just getting older.
130 Posted 10/05/2026 at 21:20:59
Now remind me who that might be. I take it you're referring to Kendall, well I remember them days like they were yesterday and was old enough to go out and celebrate them glorious times.
But and I'm sorry but that even to me was a different era in fact it was another lifetime, something most of our younger fanbase could only dream about. So once again I ask you which manager is going to even remotely even resemble them times.
There's no manager out there that could do better at this present moment that could improve us the way Moyes has.
And if there is give me his name and please like others don't throw in names like Ireallo Andrews Glasner et al because believe me they really wouldn't.
There's 2 in my mind but I truly believe they wouldn't touch us and thats Hurtizler and Maresca to me destined for bigger and better.
131 Posted 10/05/2026 at 21:26:23
My own view is that the game has become a lot more about speed and physicality, which means that unless a kid, has got certain attributes, its a lot harder for them to be trusted to play every week?
You know my gripe with Moyes, you dont have to play every week, but surely he should trust his squad of players a lot more than his actions dictate?
132 Posted 10/05/2026 at 21:26:46
133 Posted 10/05/2026 at 21:41:55
There names were Steve Chettle and Terry Wilson. Three lads who started the same day as me alongside Chettle, all played in the fa cup final against Spurs, just four years later, and Wilson, who was injured had already played in a league cup final, at least a season before, in a game when Nigel Jemson, another lad my age, scored the winning goal.
I grew up amongst those lads and wouldnt say any of them had a really old head on young shoulders, (I know you only used that description for younger players today Brendan) but they were all talented players and luckily for them, they also had a manager, who had a philosophy that was different from most other managers, and it worked.
134 Posted 10/05/2026 at 21:44:37
Your second paragraph. could not agree more.
Your final paragraph.. I think it's up to the players to earn that trust mate.
136 Posted 10/05/2026 at 21:55:02
Kdh had a poor game and should have been dragged off after he decided not to shoot again when through 1 on 1.
Putting Alcatraz on in injury time is a piss take.
Not bringing mcNeil or Armstrong on for fresh legs. George on again late in the game and told to play like a 2nd left back in a game we need to win.
Not changing shape when it was obvious we were getting overrun in the middle.
Another frustrating, predictable Moyes performance.
137 Posted 10/05/2026 at 22:24:17
138 Posted 10/05/2026 at 22:27:10
139 Posted 10/05/2026 at 22:34:36
Perhaps KDH now has a manager who believes in him?
140 Posted 10/05/2026 at 22:56:01
141 Posted 10/05/2026 at 23:11:30
If KDH can earn it...perhaps
FFS...go to bed.
You have work in the morning
142 Posted 10/05/2026 at 23:33:16
At 0-1 we should've have 2 & 3
At 1-2 we should've had 3 & 4
Mid table team fails to take chances in a game between 2 mid table sides, then gives away daft mid table gaols.
I can see us drawing the last 2 games and ending up, well - mid table.
P38, W 13, D12, L 13, GD 0
(it's a pity it's not a 39 game season to make it really symmetrical with 13 draws as well.)
143 Posted 10/05/2026 at 23:38:44
True, but that man has won the FA Cup and Community Shield, and led a mediocre Palace team to the final of the UEFA Conference League in the span of 12 months!
On top of that, he knows how to beat the R/S!
That's good enough for me!
144 Posted 10/05/2026 at 00:57:05
Just calling out your BS is all.
145 Posted 10/05/2026 at 01:14:09
By their 60's many people have been conditioned by their personal experience to inadvertently sound like a broken record (as many of us lot do!).
Moyes is exactly like that too. He's incapable of achieving success, except for his own bank account of course - like so very many £millionaire folk in football the world will never remember as being even bog standard.
Dan Freidkin is in his 60's too.
Will he show enterprise leading to trophy-winning success for Everton?
Hmm!
146 Posted 11/05/2026 at 02:12:20
His modus operandi for young players has been the same for 20 years:
1) Sit on the bench for 6 months to watch and learn from senior pros making repeated mistakes.
2) If injuries force it, come into the side and play out of position for 3 games.
3) Remain in the side until the senior pro is fit, or until you make your first mistake in a game, following which you will be dropped.
4) Sit on the bench for 6 months to watch and learn from senior pros making repeated mistakes.
5) Get transferred after 12 months because you didn't live up to your potential.
It has nothing to do with earning trust.
I would expect Moyes to be suitably embarrassed that Merlin and Tim have played so well when he was forced to play them. That would require self-awareness, so unlikely. He will simply claim it justifies his methods.
Meanwhile, we can watch the likes of Miles Lewis-Skelly, Rio Ngumoha, Junior Kroupi, Robbie Mainoo, Josh King, Nico O'Reilly and Lucas Bergvall play every week and wonder how they can possibly be ready.
147 Posted 11/05/2026 at 03:54:15
Who do you think you are, God Almighty?
You don't even know that an era is longer than a lifetime, and you've been short-changed if you consider 40 years to be standard for a lifetime.
It's always frustrating when points are dropped but it's amazing to see some have clearly already mentally binned the likes of Dewsbury-Hall and Ndiaye because they squander chances.
Jeez, those guys are working like Trojans for the team and they are at least creating those chances. If they slotted them routinely they wouldn't be with us because they would have had much better offers elsewhere. Let's sort out the bigger problems in the team first before we get majorly stressed that the flair players aren't exactly Ronaldo and Messi.
I didn't think Rohl was too bad today but of course if people think we should easily be vanquishing the likes of Palace then they will not be satisfied by anything they saw in this match.
Personally I think Palace have a few players I wouldn't mind poaching if they became available. Like a lot of teams they've struggled with the burden of European football and they've also had to deal with losing elite players.
It's mid-table mediocrity but the bonus of a European final in a season of consolidation overall. If they find the right manager to replace Glasner then they should still be one of the banana-skin teams in the Premier League next season.
148 Posted 11/05/2026 at 05:38:26
I think Si has pretty much said most of what my reply to you would have been. There is no way on god's earth you could possibly know 100% that the other managers you mention couldn't do, at least, an equal job to what Moyes has done.
The same as I couldn't possibly guarantee those same managers would do better than Moyes. But I believe all of them would be an improvement on the present incumbent.
I might add that I was a regular match goer through the '70s into the middle '90s, by the way. So yes, I have actually been to a game.
At the end of the day, you think Moyes is the right manager for us. I most certainly do not.
149 Posted 11/05/2026 at 06:23:09
But I'm afraid time moves on and unfortunately Moyes can't. The last 5 games finally prove to me he isn't up to managing this club anymore. To continue to play Tarkowski and Keane at centre-back is mind-boggling, O'Brien at right-back when we have a proper right back.
His substitutions are also head-scratching at times. No, if we are to progress as a club, we need a new manager. TFG need to get either Glasnier or Iraola -- I'm not bothered which one.
150 Posted 11/05/2026 at 07:09:48
They've got a shiny stadium and a side that seems to be destined for the comfort of mid-table mediocrity for the foreseeable.
Everton... making up the numbers since the '90s!
151 Posted 11/05/2026 at 07:44:47
The only one of those five managers who was available at the time Moyes was hired was Terzic, and he rejected Everton's interest. (And I can tell you from having watched him manage dozens of games that no, he does not change his system for anybody. That's why he quit Dortmund. Hummels was ready to punch him out for leaving him isolated all the time.)
Iraola, Glasner, Maresca and Hurzeler were all employed farther up the PL table when Moyes was hired and therefore weren't available. They wouldn't have moved down the table and their employers wouldn't have released them midseason. And as I already told you I'm no expert on any of them and therefore have no opinion on whether they'd have done better anyhow. So I'm not sure why you keep asking me that question.
Time to move on.
152 Posted 11/05/2026 at 07:50:18
And there is bloody good reason, it is practically the same:-
Coleman vs Coleman
Mykolenko vs Mykolenko
Keane vs Keane
Patterson vs Patterson
Mina vs Tarkowski
Godfrey vs Obrien
Kenny vs Aznou
Branthwaite vs Branthwaite
Holgate vs Welch
Ill leave you to decide if it was better than now. It finished on 34 points, had conceded 57 goals, and had survived Crystal Palace by no small part of a fanatical family base and the graft of Richarlison. It was, let's be honest, a fucking dreadful rearguard under Lampard.
My own view is only Branthwaite has measurably improved since. You can argue that Tarkowski and Obrien are better than Mina & Godfrey, but it is much of a muchness. Some of the others just haven't moved forward at all, under any manager, and never will. They are bottom 6 defenders, and expecting better results with that ilk of plsyer is just wishful thinking.
A pile of shit? Go and see Holgate, Kenny, Godfrey. To quote Mourinho, see where they play, how they play, if they play.
I'll save you the bother, theyre following a long list of Everton players that will do absolutely nothing after Goodison Park. They are non investments from the past. They are hollow footballers.
So my question is with Branthwaite out, how are supporters expecting better results? Those defenders are clearly not good enough to extract better results than what Moyes arguably got from them over the last 18 months. Nor are they able to play any differently than a low block.
And why? The defence has been under invested for years. A free transfer on Tarkowski, and a pair of cheap full backs that have failed for the price of Digne, is all that we have seen.
So whether you pro Moyes or the mob, this has to change. £110m invested counts for nothing, whilst the defence is patched together by Dumb & Dumber. The decision to give Coleman more years a mistake, as was the decisions not to move on Mykolenko and Patterson earlier.
Yes, but give Patterson his chance? I can tell you it wont happen. And if his career follows Kenny, Holgate and Godfrey, he will do nothing after it either.
153 Posted 11/05/2026 at 07:50:58
Eric Myles 73 - I agree with Jimmy, Annika is getting tiresome. Is she just Christine whatsername with another account?
Not letting you get away with this bollocks Eric. Christine - Foster - who understands Everton and our culture and environment far more than you and I do - far more - was/is a ToffeeWeb gem. Her heartfelt knowledgable posts that chimed with so many on here were far more consistently important than anything that your one, two or, if we're lucky, three liners can mean and muster.
Christine now posts on Evertonia and you should go there to read her always insightful posts.
Sorry mate, but this two sentence thing from you really bugged me.
154 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:03:58
On the comparusins
I can see it, you can see it, everyone can see it.
Do you think Moyes can see it?
If so, why didn't he spend some of the £111 million to rectify it?
155 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:04:36
You obviously haven't read my post properly, not once have I said I want Moyes as manager, in fact I said I actually didnt want him back.
But while hes here he will get my support despite his stubbornness at times, I will say this though not once this season have we looked in any sort of danger at the bottom end of the table, that said we haven't troubled the top 6 either.
The loss of Branthwaite has been a massive massive blow because hes missed a lot of the season and if Moyes continues to play Tarkowski and Keane together we will continue to leak goals.
The midfield has improved considerably even with the loss of Grealish, who imo has been another big loss.
Like I said in an earlier post, this season was always going to be one of transition and so it's proved.
If he continues to carry on playing square pegs in round holes ie Obrien at rb next season he'll get the treatment he deserves.
156 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:18:21
", I will say this though not once this season have we looked in any sort of danger at the bottom end of the table, that said we haven't troubled the top 6 either."
Moyes ideal season Andy.
Aims for the middle third of teams finishing position every time.
157 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:18:28
158 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:18:30
His tactical masterplan is to swap Beto with Barry.
Ndiaye at the moment is all flash and no substance. Easily our most skilful player but his lack of end product is starting to wear thin now.
159 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:28:53
160 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:35:12
Christine "whatsername" Decided to post on another site.
Maybe you know that and the knowledge that she wont come on to wipe the floor with you has given you the courage to launch your nasty unprovoked dig.
People who have been around this parish for any length of time will testify that Christine Foster's posts were looked out for. That's because she had more Everton knowledge in her little finger than you have in your entire being.
161 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:42:20
We were quite strong in the early part of the season but a backline of
RB : JOB (NEVER A RB)
CBs : Keane & Tark ( both ageing & slow)
LB: myko ( limited )
This won't have us competing near the top.
We're making chances, actually scoring a few now, and the defence can't be trusted.
It's showing as soon as we try to be more attack minded this defence cant cope,
Start next season with Keane and or tarks I'll be gutted.
162 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:42:25
Didnt see your post. I suspect the overwhelming majority of posters (if not all) would agree with your post
163 Posted 11/05/2026 at 08:52:30
Christine would win by a landslide.
Paragon Evertonian and Scotty Roader Christine deserves our utmost respect Darren, but unfortunately, for whatever reason, Eric did the reverse.
164 Posted 11/05/2026 at 09:02:22
Here's another idea. Moyes has many options open to him, but we are conceding with alarming regularity because he is hellbent on sticking with the culprits.
Paul
Indeed...Although I think you are understating the margin by referring to it as a mere landslide
165 Posted 11/05/2026 at 09:08:29
166 Posted 11/05/2026 at 09:54:26
Personally, I dont want Everton playing Thursday/Sunday in Europe. We have got the strength in depth and it will definitely affect our League position.
167 Posted 11/05/2026 at 10:15:10
Complete overhaul of defence required. Assuming Tarks and Keane will remain on payroll, adding Stones would be a strange way to start that process.
168 Posted 11/05/2026 at 10:22:09
I'm not having that, he's an expert on keeping it tight.
169 Posted 11/05/2026 at 10:26:01
174 Posted 11/05/2026 at 12:27:57
Thats the sort of players Kenny started football life with and stayed with all the time he was here.
Everton turned down an offer of £7M from Burnley when Jonjo was in the last year of his contract, he joined a German team in that summer and got a very good signing on fee and wage offer them.
Left Everton but came back to see them whenever he could, born a Bluenose and stayed one, he was the only player who came over to the few hundred fans who had protested after a defeat by Aston Villa((?) he came out of the tunnel about half an hour after the game to apologise, the others came out and walked across the field to the Stanley Park exit where their cars were with even looking up, sorry we got a wave off Seamus.
176 Posted 11/05/2026 at 13:19:59
177 Posted 11/05/2026 at 13:32:50
I make no statement on their ability, but we can see that they've struggled since, and that the defence is no better than 4 years ago.
178 Posted 11/05/2026 at 13:36:11
Who do you put that down to Ian?
179 Posted 11/05/2026 at 13:55:16
Fear-Driven Tactics: There is a view that teams are so terrified of making mistakes that they have lost individuality and flair in favour of cautious, possession-based systems.
180 Posted 11/05/2026 at 14:09:01
181 Posted 11/05/2026 at 14:20:05
I guess you are trying to do your usual pivot to avoid answering what is a fairly simple question - hypothetical or not.
As we both know, Iraola, Glasner, Maresca and Hurzeler would have done a better job over the last 18 months with the Everton squad Moyes had at his disposal.
They would also do a better job next season as manager of Everton.
183 Posted 11/05/2026 at 14:40:25
Thats the what it's down to.
How about who it is down to?
184 Posted 11/05/2026 at 14:42:28
185 Posted 11/05/2026 at 14:52:27
VAR, is another reason, because it has taken away so much emotion, and when I read about Evertons defending, I think if you look back at the last ten years, then it has definitely been the main reason why a few managers got the sack.
I think Dyche, lost that much trust in his teams ability to defend, that he stopped attacking, and looking at the game yesterday, then once it became stretched then Crystal Palace, suddenly started creating chances.
Ive seen a new phrase developing on ToffeeWeb, called the Mob. Is this a name for people who dont like Moyes, just like anyone who doesnt agree with the current immigration policy, is automatically called a racist?
Editorial Team
186 Posted 11/05/2026 at 14:56:12
Michael, could you explain to me, why my comments aren't been published?
To get your attention.
I don't recall saying anything offensive?
Do you remember this post that began:
Totally off the point, from an outsider looking in...
I'll spare everyone the rest of it, all about politics, nothing about football, causing a load more off-topic posts that had to be deleted. Please do not post off-topic, and especially no politics.
Thank you.
ps: Rob Jones and Steve Brown, please pack it in.
187 Posted 11/05/2026 at 14:59:12
The MOB (Moyes Out Brigade) was coined during Moyes's first stint.
After he only got us to 4th I think.
188 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:04:00
Passing for passing sake nowadays is the norm.
189 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:12:42
Eric is talking shite -- again. The fabled Moyes Out Brigade did not materialise until his next full season, when he finished one place above relegation.
It gathered momentum when he went cap in hand to his senior players to ask where it was going wrong because he could'nt understand why his one-dimensional approach to the game had been rumbled.
John @188,
Don't encourage them, for fuck's sake!
190 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:16:11
That's why I didn't like the Martinez years.
191 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:18:00
192 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:26:51
193 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:29:52
"As we both know "
I "know" no such thing, because I lack your profound wisdom about these managers and their abilities, and therefore decline to immerse myself in your hypotheticals.
What I do know with certainty is that they all have better playing squads at their disposal than we do. They have more good players, and their best are better than our best. None puts out a starting 11 in which the top player is the goalkeeper and the leading scorer has 9 goals.
And to me, a managerial debate that ignores the playing staff is pretty pointless.
We need a whole bunch of new players this summer (I'd estimate a minimum of 8 if we make the Conference League).
We will change managers at some point. Maybe to one of those guys.
Does that "make sense"?
194 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:30:26
"I do my research", says angry saddo.
Sometimes with the daily well known, TW has changed little apart from few of us return often...for same result.
Still, hey up. Like watching a potential hopeful win and ending up in another draw.
All fun. oh was once.
195 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:40:29
Giz a one liner to my question at 191
196 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:47:18
He's an example of a very good player who just lacks that bit of magic.
On the subject of posters, its only human nature to rate them higher if they usually agree with your own point of view.
I don't see us in Europe next year, but its still a possibillity, just not likely.
Would it do us good to be in Europe, yes if we could buy enough good players to make us competitive in both competitions, but thats the big question isn't it, how much can we spend.
Theres no point playing in Europe if we go in as cannon fodder and in addition balls up our league results.
197 Posted 11/05/2026 at 15:47:35
When you post who the manager should/could select, players we should/could target for recruitment, players we should/could sell, why certain players are being selected/not selected, you are dealing in hypotheticals.
You certainly spend as much time as anyone else on here in speculation, its why we visit the site. But, you appear to have a mental block where managers are concerned?
If I understand your point, a) you think it is less relevant which manager takes over a squad because it is mainly down to player quality? Interesting as managers across multiple clubs have been able to get better results from squads who failed under their previous managers. It is why clubs change managers.
Or perhaps b) you think that the priority in the summer is squad rebuilding over hiring a new manager? Moyes brought in 9 players last summer at a cost of £115 million, of whom he has regularly selected 3 in the first team.
Perhaps not the man to lead the way in signing the 8 players that you “hypothesise” we need to recruit.
198 Posted 11/05/2026 at 16:06:35
199 Posted 11/05/2026 at 16:14:44
I still haven't figured out what their plan is. If they are OK with what we have done this year and that works financially for them (I suspect it does) then we'll be sticking with Moyes and platyng guys some don't much rate.
If they have ambition beyond that, and have the financial means and risk appetite to turn that into reality, then we need a very different squad and probably a different manager. But the EPL is a high stakes game if you want to fly closer to the sun and I'm still not sure they have the bottle for that. But either way, they are the key to what happens next.
As for the game, so much has been said I won't repeat, other than to say that my complaint very many months ago that the lack of decent full backs is seriously inhibiting us becomes ever truer. I felt very sorry for Rohl, already out of position on the wing, being pushed into right back. I don't know why, presumably because O'Brien was again struggling in that role or maybe he wanted 3 in the middle. But the 3 just watched Mateta peel away to score unhindered so maybe that was a bad idea.
If Jake and Myko remain our first choice full backs next year, then I'll know where our ambitions lie next year...
200 Posted 11/05/2026 at 16:16:14
You are spot on good but not good enough, and I completely endorse about Ndaiye squandering chances, at present he couldnt finish his breakfast. Unusually KDH struggled to convert the good chances he had. Why we went so deep makes no sense and Rohl ended up playing as an auxiliary full back, which allowed their left back to attack at will with no fear of having to track back. Their second goal was a joke we had 4 defenders less than a yard apart on the 6 yard line but none decided to pick up their lone striker in amongst them.
We have surrendered any chance of meaningful European football, and I certainly see no mileage in qualifying for the conference, just a lot more games with nothing at the end. We cant hope to compete towards the top half of the league if we dont have players with a better scoring records. I watched a bit of the Newcastle game on MOTD and the commentator said Harvey Barnes has scored 16 goals in all competitions this year and he doesnt start many games. We cant keep fielding teams with poor goal records I hope in the summer this is put right and if that means selling Ndaiye so b eit, yes he goes past people for fun on the halfway line but doesnt create enough or score enough. I would also hope Moyes goes back to his old club and gets Bowen another goal scoring wide player as is Wilson at Fulham.
I fear unless we address this problem we wont progress.
201 Posted 11/05/2026 at 16:48:40
When it happened, I thought to myself, "That's not good management, that!"
I love watching Ndiaye, I thought he was very bright in the first half, but I thought he had ran his race and had become completely ineffective during the second half. Whereas I thought Rohl was industrious and was always trying to impact the game.
When George put Ndiaye through, I just had a feeling he was going to hit a poor shot because he looked tired. I understand why the manager wanted to leave him on; I just felt it was bad management leaving him on.
202 Posted 11/05/2026 at 16:50:38
What was working has for the moment, ceased to work. Whether that is other teams starting to work us out, or a dip in form at the wrong time is difficult to know. It feels like maybe we have dipped, the fact this downturn coincides with the 3-week break, it seems we just didn't come back right.
And Ndiaye, what's happened? Oh well. A disappointing end, but there it is. A mid-table finish, when we looked set for Top 8 for most of the time.
Still, that's football. We rebuild in the summer with some key signings and, hopefully this time next year, we will be much more robust.
203 Posted 11/05/2026 at 17:10:47
We play with one striker, one attacking midfielder (Ndiaye), two defensive midfielders, one (often) isolated right midfielder, two unadventurous full-backs, two deep lying central defenders and a goalkeeper.
When you pair Keane and Tarkowski, you have got to defend deep; although this didn't stop us creating chances yesterday, there were a few times when Dewsbury-Hall was our furthest man forward, looking for support.
204 Posted 11/05/2026 at 17:15:06
Do you leave a player on that scored before, but isn't having a great game. Or do you play someone that is doing all right, but doesn't have the goal or assist track record.
I think that has been the case a lot this season.
It isn't an easy decision either way.
Is Garner a defensive midfielder? Not sure he is.
205 Posted 11/05/2026 at 18:20:49
As for that separation and space between our centre-backs is almost criminal. Anyone who has played the beautiful game as a centre-back knows you stay tight, minimise space; one marking, one covering, but close.
206 Posted 11/05/2026 at 18:33:37
Knowing your players isnt a conundrum Ian, and Im sure I wasnt alone in identifying that Iliman, had drifted completely out of the game during the second half yesterday, mate?
207 Posted 11/05/2026 at 19:09:56
Should he of done better with the effort in the 90th minute. He it straight and high at the keeper. Either side and low, and it is 3 points.
208 Posted 11/05/2026 at 20:00:03
I knew Moyes would keep Ndiaye on but, like I said, I thought it was the wrong move. Not because he's a bad player (I happen to think he's quite possibly our best) but because he had been out of the game for most of the second half, he wasn't playing with the same energy, and he simply wasn't contributing like he normally does.
Rohl, is a lot more limited in the wide area's, but he's very honest, he doesn't stop working for the team, and if he had been given that same opportunity as Ndiaye, who's to say he wouldn't have taken it.
I didn't need to listen to Glasner, to know that Palace, finished the game stronger than Everton, and one of the reasons for this was that our two most creative players, had stopped getting on the ball, and causing our opponents problems, and we had also lost the discipline and energy of Merlin Rohl, imo.
David Moyes rarely surprises with his subs, because they're usually like-for-like, and are usually already pre-determined, but sometimes when certain players are tired, I think he should change his mind, because tired footballers very rarely produce.
209 Posted 11/05/2026 at 22:10:11
We had no answers to him on the pitch, nor on the bench, and just dropped deeper, and had less control. He is a classic opposition striker that licks his lips when Everton are in town. There has been loads of them.
210 Posted 11/05/2026 at 22:34:01
"..Anyone who has played the beautiful game as a centre back knows you stay tight, minimise space; one marking, one covering, but close."
I agree, what I would like to see is Rohl with his pace and O'Brien (or Branthwaite, if he ever gets long term fit) working the centrebacks job like Mountfield and Ratcliffe did -- I'll mark him and you mark me.
Along with that, I'd only play 1 DM, 4 in midfield and a striker.
Easy this Football Manager lark.
211 Posted 12/05/2026 at 07:56:05
Then one of them got injured and we had to move our right-back into his proper position and suddenly the game changed.
Mateta suddenly stopped missing chances and Everton started playing higher up the pitch and getting after Crystal Palace.
People claimed they were tired because they had been playing in Europe but others were more interested in watching us suddenly beginning to play on the front foot.
I think the answer that day was already on the pitch.
212 Posted 12/05/2026 at 08:30:58
Invariably in football, if you become more attacking, you are more open at the back, hence we score 5 in last 2 games, oh and concede 5.
We can be more attacking, but we don't have the defence to be able to. So we all want "the shackles off" but with these players it's not going to be a way to gain points, as we've seen these last few games.
The being solid and nicking games might not have been pretty, but was effective, especially away. Where would we be if the "shackles were off" all season? Lower In the Premier League, in my opinion
213 Posted 12/05/2026 at 09:19:37
And it was so good that it got Martinez sacked.
214 Posted 12/05/2026 at 09:27:00
Wasn't what got him sacked, Eric?
215 Posted 12/05/2026 at 09:50:32
Cut out the individual errors and we wouldn't have conceded any of the last five.
You will only cut out individual errors when you leave out the people who keep making them. Moyes won't.
216 Posted 12/05/2026 at 09:58:09
Tony @203, you asked and answered the question yourself about Ndaiye: the reason I suggested we might be better off selling him is because 6 goals 2 of them penalties for a front 3 player isn't good enough.
Dont get me wrong: he is immensely talented and goes past people on the halfway line like they were not there but, if you're a front 3 player, you have to score more than Ndaiye does.
Just in the last 2 weeks, he squandered 2 one-on-ones against Man City and again at Palace. But he isn't alone -- our front 6 don't score enough goals; if you want to win trophies, then getting more goals into the side is imperative.
With 2 games to go, we haven't got anybody in double figures.
217 Posted 12/05/2026 at 09:59:57
If an offer of £80M+ came in, I would sell him. He's a potential match winner and a difference maker in really tight games where a bit of magic is required.
I agree that a top club would really benefit from him and I'd expect his level to elevate again playing with top players and on the Champions League stage and in the latter stages of domestic cup competitions and league title run ins.
£80M and reinvest in 2 or 3 top players that are proven. I'd start with Jarrod Bowen who'd be more effective in our team than Ndiaye and is more capable of dragging a mid-table side towards some European places than Ndiaye would be with us.
218 Posted 12/05/2026 at 10:24:29
Moyes, Ndiaye, or Garner?
219 Posted 12/05/2026 at 10:31:32
220 Posted 12/05/2026 at 10:54:58
221 Posted 12/05/2026 at 11:10:21
We can all argue the toss about the manager, but I think we all will agree that we need to improve most of the squad if we are going to compete higher.
222 Posted 12/05/2026 at 11:22:21
223 Posted 12/05/2026 at 11:24:54
224 Posted 12/05/2026 at 11:26:32
Sacked Martinez in the back of a 12th finishing position. If only them standards remained today.
225 Posted 12/05/2026 at 11:37:51
No John #214, the fans loved him so much that they protested against his management and demanded his removal.
226 Posted 12/05/2026 at 11:38:47
227 Posted 12/05/2026 at 11:49:43
228 Posted 12/05/2026 at 11:54:01
I reckon, in the right system, Ndiaye would both score a lot more goals and also create a lot more goals and chances.
I don't think this is going to happen until we get more pace at the back, and a little bit more adventure from the full-backs.
229 Posted 12/05/2026 at 12:20:16
Are you suggesting we go back for Martinez after the World Cup finishes?
230 Posted 12/05/2026 at 12:49:58
So many managers available ths summer, it's an unusual situation.
Stick or twist?
Twist.
231 Posted 12/05/2026 at 12:50:12
I think the problem is, while we have one of the slowest back four in the league who are reluctant to push too far forward, then we need our wide players to come back and help out our midfield players.
Having said that, in our last 4 games we conceded when we had plenty of players back. Van Dijk should have not got a header in, Bowen should not have been able to head the ball back from the goal line, Doku had plenty in front of him for both his goals, and Mateta had 4 defenders round him when he scored.
As I have said on numerous occasions, Tarkowski is well past his sell-by date; Keane -- despite playing well for many games this season -- is also past his best. O'Brien has no pace so is reluctant to get forward, and Mykolenko was at fault for the winner against West Ham.
Branthwaite has been sadly missed this season and I just hope he can have an injury-free season next season -- that will make a massive difference.
But we need to see O'Brien next to him to see if that works and helps us push further upfield which will lower the demands on the defensive work of our wide players.
232 Posted 12/05/2026 at 13:02:21
So who is your back 4 vs Sunderland?
233 Posted 12/05/2026 at 13:23:50
And he's right. You don't sack a manager cos he fails to get Europe in his first full season, having taken over the basket-case that was Everton. He'll be given at least another season, probably the one after that.
Get used to it, and instead of agitating for something that's not going to happen, consider why it is we nosedived at the final furlong. To those who say 'He always does this', that's not true.
He's got us Europe loads of times. Something has gone wrong in the last month, it's worth while trying to figure out what that is.
234 Posted 12/05/2026 at 13:27:32
I know he finished lower than Moyes's best, so why were the fans protesting to have Martinez removed?
And how many fans are protesting at games to have Moyes removed now?
235 Posted 12/05/2026 at 13:36:53
Football that sends you to sleep.
236 Posted 12/05/2026 at 13:39:19
He definitely will not be asked to play up and down the field like he does here. He is asked to do too much and that will take it out of him in the long run.
Imagine Grealish being asked to do the amount of work Ndiaye does. I doubt he could physically do it, nor should he be asked to.
Ndiaye is and does it willingly for about 1/6th of the wages Jack gets and got for half a season's work — yet people rave about Grealish and are starting to pick holes in the other lad's game.
237 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:17:03
238 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:23:35
No,are you?
239 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:27:21
Who was protesting to get him out?
Baffling.
Martinez gets 5th position with 72 points, Moyes gets 4th with 60 points and he's a magician 😁
Martinez gets the sack for finishing 12th.
Moyes is told he is the only man who can do this job, while finishing in a similar position.
Its a funny old game
240 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:28:29
You must have been asleep during our record points total season
241 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:35:17
you are urging the sacking of a manager in his first full season in the job, when he's making progress. Martinez had three full years, and took over a v good side. Moyes took over a basket case.
242 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:41:45
Have a look at Martinez team in his first game.
Then have a look at Moyes team in his first game this season.
Not sure Roberto had £111 million to spend on players in one window either.
243 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:44:09
surely you aren't comparing the team of Lukaku Barry Stones and our outstanding fullbacks, with the team who scored two goals in ten games?
244 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:48:29
245 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:51:24
Figures David can only dream of in 30 years of managing football clubs.
He never will achieve them either.
246 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:52:58
It has been a much more relaxed season but the home form has been very patchy, and the away form has been much better, but how many times have you had real enjoyment, watching us play this season?
It was always going to be a more relaxed season and whilst some give Moyes credit, others will believe that this was always going to be the case, once the club was taken over and put back on a sound financial footing, especially with us going into a much bigger and better stadium.
Dyche gets pelters. He lost the first three games of the 23/24 season, his team also never won a game for three months, and yet if you take away the points deduction, he achieved a points tally nearly equal to what this alleged much, much better season has so far yielded.
One had very little money, no board of directors, an owner who had ran out of money, meaning he was using complete charlatans, who never had any possibility of becoming our new owners, and also got a draconian points deduction.
The other has been given money off new owners, a much more relaxed fan base, a brilliant new stadium, a stable boardroom, and in the eyes of many, hes doing a sterling job.
247 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:53:04
Im right up for Moyes to bore us to 72 points
248 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:55:10
249 Posted 12/05/2026 at 14:59:01
And 2 domestic cup semi finals in which we were only defeated by the eventual winners.
He got us our highest points total in premier league history and back into Europe with a 5th place finish at the very first time of asking. Losing in the FA Cup only to the eventual winners.
Moyes team some people will say. Well with that team Moyes could at best achieve a 6th place finish and had not put us into Europe for 4 years.
The fact of the matter is this - apart from an FA Cup final - Martinez outperformed Moyes in his less than 3 years than Moyes did in a decade.
Martinez was not given the time or support to address the defensive issues that were undermining our performances. When he needed some astute business to be conducted - the club spent £13m on Oumar Niasse. There was no way he was a Martinez signing.
Those defensive issues and some heavy defeats really counted against Martinez and he was given the bullet. This included some dreadful showings in Derby matches - but that is certainly not an area where Moyes outperforms the Spaniard.
250 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:08:04
I agree with every word in your post, mate.
251 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:09:21
some good bits, some bad bits. all in all, we'll finish just outside the euro spots. if you were predicting where we would finish at the start of the season, that would probably be where you'd say. But we have under performed this year, no question. But it's only his first year. It's like running a brutal inquisition over Howard Kendall in his first full year. It's not reasonable, It takes time to build a proper side. I think it took Clop 2-3 years before Liverpool properly got into their stride. It's way too early to be delivering any sort of verdict on his tenure.
Ian, it's not been amazing season, I think we can all agree on that. But it's his first season. We've done ok. Nothing to scare the horses.
252 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:11:24
By the end of Martinez's time with us, players where openly ignoring his touchline instructions. They had had enough of his boring pass pass pass nonces.
253 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:14:03
He didn't.
254 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:14:07
255 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:28:36
Martinez was on the edge of glory but, instead of spending the summer building on what he had achieved, he fucked off to do some TV punditry for the entire duration of the World Cup.
His was an act of selfishness in any language. He was more interested in raising his own profile. That was compounded by the fact that, when he got back for pre-season training, his team were completely under-cooked.
They were miles behind others in terms of preparation. His team didn't recover and he deserted his own philosophy and started to over-complicate his talks.
We sometimes talk about players of enormous potential not going on to realise it. I think that could be said about Martinez the manager.
I bet he would do things differently if he could go back and do it all again
256 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:31:25
I agree on your point; if he missed one day of pre-season, that's one day too many. I've never looked but was he there all the way through the tournament?
257 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:32:03
I think with these owners, going by the short time they have been here, money does the talking and they will see a huge profit on Ndiaye and take it.
If Branthwaite proves his fitness, they will take the money on him too. Garner has just signed a new contract, so he is a relatively safe player for now.
258 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:34:10
259 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:43:09
If so, he missed some of the preseason. A poor choice from him if he did.
260 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:52:06
Easy to understand his thought process. He was smart, funny, stylish, knowledgeable, articulate, and he had just threatened to blow the Sky 4 apart. Even the housewives boosted their viewing figures. They loved him.
Meanwhile, Fergie, Wenger and Co were using their superior spending power to ensure nobody was going to gatecrash the party.
They were too ugly for telly, so didn't get distracted, like Roberto did.
261 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:56:43
Yes he of course made an error of judgement there but measuring the impact of that is not possible in my opinion.
Having finished 5th and having had an awesome season he lost Ross Barkley to an awful injury just prior to the season starting. We spent big to make Lukaku a permanent signing but after that, the club spent no money in improving the squad. He was also contending with European Football (which we got to the last 16 of) and we beat very good Lille and Wolfsburg sides along the way. A 6/10 compared to his 9/10 the previous season.
I felt he was a little unlucky and if there is a feeling that he didnt do a good job at Everton then I completely disagree.
I also disagree that players were ignoring his instructions. Maybe some had lost faith in his methods but they probably sensed he didnt have the backing of the board and that he was a dead man walking. We know from what has been written and reported on since that this was a concerted effort by some in the board to develop Rhino into our next manager.
Thats the reality of what we are talking about here.
A board that used the club to manoeuvre Russia money via the Oumar Niasse transfer and then thrust that player on Martinez. And one that ultimately had designs on shifting him on and replacing him with Rhino.
262 Posted 12/05/2026 at 15:58:23
He should have been told he couldn't do it by our strong chairman. The boss has to be there on the first day.
263 Posted 12/05/2026 at 16:26:06
Roberto was getting so much smoke blown up his, it's a wonder he needed a plane to come home.
Tommy,
You may be right, but if I was a betting man (and I am), I would bet that Roberto lies awake at night and wonders what might have been if he had stayed focused and declined the offers from the TV company.
264 Posted 12/05/2026 at 16:43:59
The fans John.
Everton have won just five league games at home all season and are guaranteed to finish with their lowest points tally at Goodison Park since the introduction of three points for a win in 1981.
Everton's annual awards event scheduled for Thursday evening - where protests against Martinez had been expected before his dismissal was announced - has been postponed.
There have been an increasing number of protests against Martinez from supporters at recent home matches.
A banner saying "Time to go Roberto" was flown over Goodison during the 2-1 win over Bournemouth on 30 April, while some Everton fans remained inside the ground for more than an hour after the match to protest against Martinez and chairman Bill Kenwright.
Martinez has been heavily criticised for flawed game-management and failure to cure Everton's defensive problems.
He leaves Everton with a 38% Premier League win percentage, but over the past two seasons Everton have won a combined 22 league games - just one more than in 2013-14.
They have conceded 18 points from winning positions this season - only Tottenham with 20 and Liverpool (19) have a worse record.
Two-goal advantages were lost at Bournemouth and Chelsea - and even when they regained the lead in injury time in both games they still were pegged back to 3-3.
In March, a 2-0 lead at home to West Ham with 12 minutes left ended in a 3-2 defeat.
Last season the Toffees had the joint worst record with Sunderland for teams losing points from winning positions with 19.
"Martinez's permanent positivity is his trademark - but to maintain it, even exaggerate it, during this dreadful campaign has led to widespread criticism and mockery from Everton's fans"
The football must have put you to sleep when all that was going on John.
265 Posted 12/05/2026 at 16:55:59
Doesn't Garner's new contract mean we can command a higher price for him? Especially if he makes it to the World Cup?
266 Posted 12/05/2026 at 16:59:23
I remember being at Sunderland, knowing that we weren't going to be having anywhere near as good a season in the Premier League, but that didn't bother me because I had a feeling he was going to be concentrating on the cups.
Two domestic semi-finals and as far as Moyes had ever taken us in Europe, but an underlying sense that something wasn't quite right with certain players behind the scenes.
I look a little bit deeper, sometimes Jagielka giving his manager a bin, rather than a bucket of cold water,
during the ice bucket challenge showed a lack of respect.It was the same player screaming at Ross Barkley in the Wembley tunnel, that the fans were booing the manager and not the player.
Sad really, but things were already going backwards, and by the end of his third season, it was clear that he had lost the respect of a lot more people than his captain, when he faced a much bigger MOB than anything David Moyes has ever had to face.
I'd bring Martinez back in the summer, but only if he was prepared to run the other side of the football club. Given the opportunity, I think he could develop the academy, right up until the Under-21 team, which would help to turn our club around in the longer term.
267 Posted 12/05/2026 at 16:59:32
A total your chap is some distance behind after 17 attempts...
268 Posted 12/05/2026 at 17:12:23
Well, Moyes said he had control of who came in and who didn't but his fans say only those who they thought played well were bought by Moyes and the duds were the ones he didn't want. I'm saying I think that the owners will sell the players that make good profits.
Well, I wouldn't sell any of our good players, Eric, but if big money is offered for Garner and he wants to go, then I think that will happen.
What's your thoughts on the owners and how they will operate? No sitting on the fence here, Eric, by saying you will wait and see how they operate... And what's your opinion on Moyes — stick or twist?
269 Posted 12/05/2026 at 17:14:38
Seasons, John #267, two of them.
270 Posted 12/05/2026 at 17:18:33
And like you, I think that TFG will continue to set the recruitment policy.
271 Posted 12/05/2026 at 17:31:07
Ndiaye would be so much more effective with a full-back who's overlapping or underlapping, and he would get more chance to come in and shoot.
I think when he was on the right and Grealish on the left, his main problem was O'Brien being the full-back, offering nothing, whereas Mykolenko, although limited, offers Grealish options.
\ New right-back and left-back would transform us.
272 Posted 12/05/2026 at 18:09:05
Moyes would never play a player like Deulofeu. Roberto had Ross Barkley purring and I'll always thank him for bringing Lukaku to the club, likewise Gareth Barry.
That first season under Roberto the football was great, he made us believe we could beat anyone. I haven't got a bad word to say about him to be honest.
I know the next 2 seasons weren't great but he got us to 2 semi-finals and we were ripped off against Man City with a dubious goal when I thought the ball had gone out of play. Lukaku scored a cracker in that game.
273 Posted 12/05/2026 at 18:21:37
And who has been in charge for the last one and a half seasons?
274 Posted 12/05/2026 at 18:35:07
Only Roberto can answer that. However, I do imagine he spends a lot of time about finishing 3rd in a World Cup with Belgium. A marvellous FA Cup win.
He probably thinks about turning up to Goodison and doing a number on Moyesie and his vastly superior team en route to that final than he does about his 2014 summer TV gig.
I think this is a manager that will win a World Cup this summer. But don't confuse this as me wanting Roberto back at Everton. I'm not sure it's the right fit and perhaps the moment has passed. I don't think he'd be given time and patience and therefore I think it would be a flawed appointment.
The point is this -- Moyes would like to kid the whole world that we cannot do any better than him. But I won't have it. He's at his ceiling already with Everton.
It in fairness to him, he turned it around from a dreadful mess to his ceiling quite quickly. And I appreciate him for that. As well as the stability he injected 20 odd years ago.
275 Posted 12/05/2026 at 00:40:19
I don't quite see Saint Daniel the Absent turning down great money for any player in his world where the $$$$$ magnet stadium and being in the Premier League are, I think, his main aims and motivations.
Kevin (233), Moyes did not get us into Europe 'loads of times'. A few times but not 'loads'.
'Loads' = 'very frequently, many times, or on numerous occasions. It is used to emphasize that an action has occurred repeatedly'.
Just a friendly note, you do this many times - in fact, 'loads of times' - Kevin, chucking in distorting language and emphases to make the manager look better.
276 Posted 13/05/2026 at 01:19:44
277 Posted 13/05/2026 at 01:39:39
That was so subtle that it was missed by all!!! 😌
278 Posted 13/05/2026 at 02:49:32
It's not!!!! Moyes is nearing the end of one-and-a-half seasons this time round over 486 days, including a full pre-season.
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1 Posted 10/05/2026 at 12:50:39