Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
A question from the Locker Room
It was 7:15pm Monday evening. I'd just finished my weekly 5-a-side session and, after a satisfactory rub-down in the communal shower, I emerged into the locker room to see a man of a certain age (that is, mine), a stranger to me, wearing the royal blue of my (and your) beloved Everton.
Being (and I quote) "a lovable twit", I ignored social convention and British reserve and said "It's good to see a fellow Evertonian in Woking!"
He turned, smiled and we began a discourse on a number of issues à la Everton. Him, a fine figure of a man proudly wearing his brand new home strip; me, stark bollock naked... It was during this surreal intercourse that my new "bessie mate" said something that got me thinking....
It was his considered opinion that he would rather watch Everton "as is" than if we became "like Man City". At first, I thought "You mad impetuous fool" (although of course I did not express this verbally). I was thinking, "who wouldn't want a Sheikh, an Oligarch or an American Sports Franchiser spending lots of their limitless lolly on our boys?"
It was on my drive home that what this fellow Blue's opinion started to make sense to me. The positives and negatives of having a munificent foreign benefactor have been well aired on these pages. It may be interesting, however, to take a straw poll, with the simple question being "Do you want to be the next Man City or Chelsea?"
The early results from Woking are in and it's 2-0 to the Noes...
As for the Evertonian in the Locker Room in Woking Leisure Centre who stimulated this question, I never did ask him his name. I know he wasn't an apparition (like some Spaghetti Westernesque "Pale Rider" Man with No Name) as I did limply shake his hand goodbye, towel firmly clasped to my nethers. But if you are reading this, my friend, then see you at 7pm next Monday? (Actually make that 7:15, I'll be suitably attired and quite frankly less embarrassing.)
Alun Willis, Posted 02/08/2011 at 23:35:33
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I'm with you and Russell on this. The perfect scenario would be if I had a few billion to spare as I would love to be involved in a major way. Dream On...
I am also an NRL fan (Australian-based Rugby League competition) and the team that I follow, and have supported passionately throughout my life, is the Newcastle Knights.
Up until recently they have been a normal team. A large and proud travelling fanbase, have won the title (last time in 2001), often make finals, and have produced some great players, and also (arguably) the greatest player the game has ever seen, Andrew Johns. But they were not the silvertails of the NRL ? like Manly and the Sydney Roosters. Teams that anyone who doesn't support them, hates them. They have rich backings, just buy players instead of producing their own, and seem to be favoured by the media.
Earlier this season, Newcastle got bought out by Nathan Tinkler, a billionaire mining magnate, but also a local boy. Most Knights fans were excited by this (including myself) as we thought it would enable Newcastle to keep hold of the young talent they produce, and would also allow them to buy the odd player when needed.
But here is the problem. Next season Wayne Bennett, the greatest coach in rugby league, will be taking over the reigns at Newcastle. Again, not a bad thing, but it does mean that our current coach (Rick Stone ? another local boy) knows that regardless of what happens this season, he will be out of a job next season.
Also, some of our players have been inexplicably sold off mid-season, presumably to make way for others that Wayne Bennett will bring in the off-season. Unfortunately some of the players that are being removed in the middle of the campaign, aren't so much the Yaks, Yobos, and Anichebes of this world, but more like your Baineses, Rodwells and Fellainis.
It's obvious to me that the powers that be don't give a shit about this season. (We're actually doing alright though ? so imagine if the coach was still playing for his job, and some of the better players hadn't been flogged off!) They are just preparing for the next. And as a fan, that really shouldn't be acceptable, you should ALWAYS be trying your best, if not for a trophy, then for a bit of pride.
But the strange thing is, whilst I am a little perturbed, I find myself shrugging and saying "Oh well, we will do better next season..." I have lost my Passion!!! I don't know where it went, or when, but part of it has deserted me.
Also, if the Knights win the Premiership next season, whilst I will be pleased, I will also think "Well we SHOULD win! We have the best coach, the best players and the most money, there is really no excuse NOT to win."
It's like if Man City finally win the title this year, most people would say "About fucking time! Took you idiots long enough", because, really, there is no real excuse for them not to win it.
So no ? I don't want to be the next Man City or Chelsea, for fear of losing my passion. But I also do not want to remain as we are with the same incompetent dickheads running our club. As said before, a nice pinch of money every summer would be a lovely scenario. Moving forward without buying titles.
If we ever won the league in this fashion, I would be absolutely over the moon.
Our current owners are paupers compared to what's required now. I think they have recognised that... Substantial investment would be required, but I agree I wouldn't like to see us spending £40m on anyone and giving them £250k a week ? that just seems immoral.
Sadly whilst the clubs mentioned are in the hands of billionaires, I see no change. I have no confidence that FFP is going to do diddly squat.
Looking at the transfer window activity club-by-club it's pretty clear that ? outside Liverpool, City and the promoted clubs ? nobody has strengthened. You could argue that the Mackems have, but for me the quality that has left (ie Bent and Henderson) exceeds that which has come in (ie Brown, O'Shea etc).
Pose the question this way.
Would you rather continue with the current shambles and have no hope of winning anything and possibly stare relegation in the face in a few seasons time or be bought out by someone who will put money into the Club to improve the squad and the ground and challenge for the title and CL placings?
No contest.
KENWRIGHT OUT, and take Green and his poxy mates with you.
Having said that we probably still wouldn't be anywhere near competing for trophies even if we were.
Football has changed and unless your paying the going rate in transfers and wages your winning sweet FA.
Just ask any Arsenal fan who has seen them gradually drop out of the elite for the very same reason ? even with a manager commonly referred to as a genius.
Money talks and there's no way of getting away from it.
We won't win the league or get top 4 but I can handle that
We won't win a cup-not even the crappy worthless cup because great as Moyes is, he sets up teams 'not to lose' and in cups you have to play to win
We haven't even any new signings to get excited about: no wing wizard, no goalscorer, no solid defender....I'm literally only excited to see if Ross Barkley is any good. If he is, we'll have to sell him within 2 years so even that is tinged with a worry
I don't wanna be Citeh but I don't want to be a boring 'non progressive' football club either. When we finished 5th twice in a row, more supportive transfer policy & better mgt could have seen us progress. Now instead it feels like we're regressing and it's depressing
We still haven't signed anyone! How can we possibly be better than we were last season? We'll still get injuries, have no pace on the flanks and play pedestrian football at home. Great
New City Centre State of the Art Stadium overlooking the Mersey. The Kings Dock sounds good.
Top Euro manager - or suitcases of cash for Moyes to prove whether he has or hasn't got the minerals.
A few mill to churn into community football projects encouraging lads to get out together playing footie as a routine.
A commercial operation that had a clue.
Free delivery on club merchandise.
Preferred club on Sky.
The best players in the world playing for us because the rewards - financially and professionally - are the highest.
I want us to be at the pinnacle of football.
For that you need someone with a lot of cash and commitment who loves hIs football. Roman Abramovich anyone?
Personally I think statements like this are bordering on racism, no one would give two shits if BK had £20 billion in the bank but put an 'ic' on the end of his name or Sheikh in front of it and all of a sudden were sold down the river.
21st Century Owners who help us compete please.
It is a different kettle of fish across the park where Dalglish, having been issued a not too subtle warning that anything less than a Champions League place is not acceptable, suggests that he could be next in line for their managerial merry-go-round.
Meanwhile, our Davey who, since the fifties could be the least successful manager on Merseyside, has no fears of suffering such a fate.
We need a massive influx of money to make us serious contenders and if that must come from an over-wealthy American, Arab or someone else, then so be it. We all want the best for our beloved club, we want to be in the mix when it comes to winning trophies. But at the moment that is something we can only dream about.
How do we resolve it? Sell the club to someone who wants to put the club on the map and be winners. We haven't got those people at the helm currently.
I'm alright, I can still see Ratcliffe, Reid, Sharpe in my mind's eye but it's selfish, we complain about a lack of vision after Kendall then justify failure today ? futile.
Of course Chelsea's triumphs are tainted by not "earning them" but I was staggered by their support in some spoof Asian trophy a few days ago. Already the bandwagon of Man City is on the move and, whatever people say, this is the game.
The governing bodies are not only impotent ? they are beholden to the monied elite; there will be no levelling of the playing field via these clowns... no-one will help us but ourselves.
Being a comfortable "little Evertonian" is just what BK and Co depend upon.
I'd rather be in a position to compete instead of living below the poverty line with no light at the end of the tunnel.
The next Chelsea or Man City? No way.
Perfect world? As we are-ish, with one or two quality new signings a year, say £15-20M.
Duncan, are you sure it wasn't Tony Marsh?!
It strikes me as two-faced nonsense to point to this as a great time in our history and on the other hand have this absurd notion that we are keeping it real. I'd rather be playing Barca on a Wednesday night as Gareth Humphreys #7 said. Fuck me, we accuse that lot of having delusions of grandeur!
I'd rather be embarrassed scraping money together and finish 7th than be embarrassed buying every player on earth and still not get anywhere near the league championship trophy.
City have ruined football. It is only gonna get worse and it's already on it's arse as players are greedier than ever thanks to them.
I have lived through league titles and relegation battles, so what if we get took over and "buy" the league? My celebration would not be muted in anyway and I guarantee you that no fan would be sitting in the corner, sobbing into his pint and moaning how it was an empty victory... he would be legless and hoarse with singing like the rest of us.
Well we should have refused the money; stupid money, they offered for Lescott.
Without that money we would be really struggling. But no, some Everton supporters would rather moan and whine about them, while reaching out a grubby hand and taking their money.
Or
Sold him, disrupting our defence, losing the threat of Lescott from set pieces, resulting in a 'bedding' in period for Distin (who despite being one of our better players, is getting old) and bringing in the largely ineffective Heitinga (on huge wages) and Bily (Struggler) just to fill a shirt?
In hindsight, I wish City had never gone after Lescott.
I'm just saying we moaned about them and took their money.
Like a grumpy teenager who says he hates his parents and wishes he was never born but still creeps up for his pocket money.
I'd go as far as to say I'd take relegation on the chin and watch Championship football or League 1 rather than become another Chelski/Citehad. Not the most progressive or opinions, but football isn't just about winning.
By heart beats to the intro of Z Cars and my blood is blue. And it will be as long as the club stays true.
I truly believe Moyes made a stand but in the end, Lescott won.
I'd then like to see well run clubs who have lived within their means rise back to the top of the English game. I thought with Platini's proposals and the forthcoming restrictions on overseas players, club debts etc. that my vision may come to fruition. Problem is though that Everton is not a well run club living within its means. I suspect we have a level of debt which we can't easily settle. If we had a serviceable debt then I'd be expecting to see more transfer activity over the last few years. We do have our fair share of British players but these will be coveted by the other clubs, as we are seeing with Jagielka.
Just like when Sky "transformed" the game in the 90s, Everton missed the boat having slipped down the pecking order of English clubs. The same is happening again. We're not considered a good enough prospect for investment and we're not being well run without investment. It's so bloody frustrating.
For years I thoght Everton's best way forward would be to quality for Europe, generate extra revenue and attract better players. So much for that....
If I had to choose between selling out to achieve success or the roller coaster of relegation/ promotion, developing kids etc I'd choose the latter.
A good friend of mine is a City fan and he told me that the day they won the play-off final (against Gillingham?) is his greatest moment as a fan and far more memorable than winning the FA Cup final.
To quote some Rush lyrics: "The point of the journey, Is not to arrive!"
These billionaire clubs today are only doing what we ourselvess did in the 60's.
There's also a couple of other questions - Do you ever want us to win anything again? and Do you ever want us at the pinnacle of English Football again? - Let's face it - we all want to say YES to both these questions. The reality is - it aint ever gonna happen without cash - and lots of it! - Lets 'get real' people and realise that we need a big benefactor to bankroll us before we we will have any hope of getting into the top tier of English football again. Let's face facts - we're just not there anymore.
More realistically, I like the responses which pick out the middle ground. A well run club which maximises financial opportunities and continues to give a manager a decent pot for new players. We can't rely on Moyes overachieving (premier position in relation to spending power) and it won't be long before we start slipping down without investment.
So the question:
Is it possible to be successful occupying a financial middle ground?
With a shrewd manager ? Id like to see what Moyes does with, say, £8-10M average net each year (under £3M at present), and a strong effective board. Would it be possible to sustain a decent challenge? No-one has done it to date but surely this is something to aspire to?
"Would you like £200m to spend on players"
"Erm, no thanks, I'd rather stay as we are."
"What? Shite?"
"Yep."
"Suit yourself"
Liverpool's new owners have given Dalglish more in 10 weeks that Kenwright has given his manager in 10 years. That's why Kenwright is in no position to make any demands, he`s a fucken liability and he has to go.
I don't want a billionaire... just somebody with a bit of nouse who will tell me the truth.
So You don't want to challenge for trophies ever again then...!?!?
Let's just remind ourselves that under their current regimes...Man Utd's record speaks for itself, Chelsea have won NUMEROUS trophies and Man City are just beginning to.
In the mean time we have won precisely ZILCH under the stewardship of Kenwrong & his cronies...yes we may have reached a Carling Cup semi-final and an FA Cup final in recent times but let's be honest...we BOTTLED both....now we can't even afford to bring in Free Transfer players FFS
Give me the oppotunity to win things over staying in our current stagnant...nay worsening....situation then there's only one winner for me...
To be the next Chelsea or Man City....YES PLEASE !!
OMG some Evertonians and their idea of utopia make me despair the really do....AAAARRRGGGHHH !!
I rather see Everton against the likes of europe elites and challenging for honours season in season out than this dire lot we have called a board.
If we got that sort of money we would still be down the list of clubs that world class players would like to play for.
Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea - -all in London
Man utd, Liverpool - Fame and History
Man City - Money & facilities
Everton - Money and history too far gone for young players to aspire to.
Which means we would more or less be where we are now.
Anyway that sort of money would only mean a rich mans' toy...and most toys get thrown away eventually!
I'm pissed off with us being the "sick man" of the Premier League. I'm fed up of this ever so slow decline of our great club and I want us in there winning with the best.
I was in Sydney market a few months ago and the dodgy Everton shirts on one stall outnumbered those from other teams. I'm not sure what this means, but I did have a sense of pride.
Look at our history compared to any of the above and we are right up there.
The bottom line is the money and the ability to offer players the chance of winning trophies is all that matters - end of.
Are you seriously saying players offered massive money and to play with the best would reply....
"Don't like your toilets...."
"What did you win in the '70's...?"
"Liverpool....? Never heard of it.... what do you mean it's not in London...."
It's about choice, if you sent a questionnaire to all the budding world class players and gave them a choice of playing for all the above teams including us and said they all have lots of money, (which is obviously important to the little shits that earn a house every week) they all could win something, and four of them might even reach the champions league! Then add the Milans, Madrid and Barcelona into the equation, do you seriously think we would be top or anywhere near top of their list? At best it would revert to the pre nineties where many teams could win something if the set up gelled at the right time, like it did with Kendall and co.
Fact is if we had that sort of money then there is no reason that nearly every other team would as well which means the only winners are Agents and Players.
You take the piss by saying 'what did you win in the seventies' then give History as a reason to sign?
Toilets are very important...just anyone in the Upper Bullens!
And yes, believe it or not London does has a bigger pull than Liverpool especially when given a choice and when the players have family involved.
You brought History into it, not me - I said our history matched the teams you mentioned after you said players would go to them for it. I said it boiled down to money and football.
If we had that sort of money every other team would...? Why.....? What sort of logic is that? How are we in any different position to Man City a decade ago - shit ground, no money, in the second flight...?! Or Chelsea before Abramovich......?
Granted all things being equal London will have the bigger pull but its insignificant compared to football and money in the bank. Why did Berbatov leave London for Manchester? Saha did the same? Ballotelli swaps Milan for Manchester (OK he's regretting it now but what do you expect), Tevez left London for erm... Manchester..... As it stands we've got Russians, Nigerians, Belgians, French, Spanish, North American, Australian, Irishmen, Dutch in our own team - imagine what £200m in the bank would do., they'd be queuing up!
Ball, Harvey, Kendall
League Champinships and glorious Wembley triumphs like coming back from the dead against Sheffield Wednesday in 1966. Now read this taken from this very site and ask yourself if Evertonians of the day would swap any of it because they didn't want to be like Chelsea or City.
Everton FC were perhaps the first beneficiary of a mega-rich sugar daddy in Sir John Moores. The financial clout and relative success that was brought to the club under his direction in the 1960s was to become a rare period of post-war glory for the Blues. The failure to build effectively on this tremendous advantage was squandered by a boardroom that lacked any vision, sense of investment or a will to prepare for the future, made all the worse with the sickening ascendancy of neigbours Liverpool through the 1970s.GIVE ME THIS ALL DAY LONG
MERSEY MILLIONAIRES
Under Moores, Everton began an agressive campaign of improvement that involved bringing in the best players available, from far and wide, for substantial transfer fees. Through the Moores years, Everton experienced one of the greatest periods of success in their history, with League Championship trophies secured in 1963 and 1970, along with the famous FA Cup victory over Sheffield Wednesday in 1966.
Harry Catterick was the stern and autocratic manager who made this success possible, although many claim he got a jump start with the team his predecessor John Carey had puilled together in the early years of the Moores Era. That was of course before the famous incident where Carey was relieved of his post by Moores in a taxi. Billy Bingham, Jimmy Fell, George Thomson and Alex Young were all brought to the club.
NOW THIS IS THE BEST BIT
John Moores never put any money into the club apart from his shares purchase. What he did do was provide security for expenditure on players and provide considerable business acumen alied to a ruthless determination to succeed.More of this please and KENWRIGHT OUT before he does any more damage.
From a financial aspect, all John Moores ever did was guarantee Everton's overdraft ? he never spent a penny on the club but he did allow Everton to spend plenty under his control and direction ? they couldn't live beyond their means.
Thank you, Andrew, you've saved me the trouble of reminding, or informing, everyone that Moores wasn't a Sugar Daddy and only stood as guarantor for the purchases that Everton made in those great days in the 60's. We should also remember that players like Ball, Young, etc. came to this club, not for stratospheric wages like City are paying, but to have a chance to WIN something at a special club, with a special manager, history, and fans ? not watch from the bench as their club BUYS a title like the team of mercenary twats at City are doing.
Remember Robinho? He thought he'd signed for Chelsea, for heavens sake, he just told his agent to get the most money and didn't realise he was at City. A lot of thought he put into that decision. And like Tevez and Baolotelli, he had no desire to spend any more time at City than was absolutely necessary. Compare that with Ball who was forced out of Goodison and loved the club until the day he died. I'd rather have players with Ball's attitude than any number of Robinhos, regardless of how much talent they have.
Even though I?m not anti-Kenwright and I don?t think there?s anyone interested in buying the club, it is clear that the current regime are aren't functioning as a Premier League Board of Directors; they are in a state of inertia and something?s got to give... otherwise the only way is down. Whether Doddy is right or wrong, he makes a good point that, if we haven?t got any money, then the squad should?ve been revamped and right after the Chelsea game the board should have been in touch with players' agents informing them to find a club for their players.
But, with a fortnight to go, we are going into the new season with the same old, same old... the only change is that I won?t be there to witness it.
I feel that if anyone had that sort of money to waste which in my opinion it would be then we would not necessarily be first on his list due to our well, Stadium. There are a few better options available especially if a new stadium is required.
Man city had one before the sheik arrived and the part of London that Stamford bridge stands is worth an absolute fortune even to a billionaire.
Where we have mentioned History I suppose I really mean FAME in the current day and although we have had a few outings in Europe we didn't really do that well for people to notice us too much.
Saha left Fulham, Tevez left West Ham and Berbatov left Tottenham.. to go the most famous and recently most successful club in the world. London can be nice to a foreigner but even its pull does have limits!
We would still be around 6th on the list of desirable clubs to play for which is usually around where we finish every year now.
What would be nice would be to have a Club that could afford a few purchases when needed and not need to sell a wayne rooney very now and again to survive. But a city type Billionaire...not for me thanks.
The money thing has to stop and be bought under control before the game is destroyed by it.
If i'm blathering I apologise!
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1 Posted 03/08/2011 at 05:56:21
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Its always a pleasure running into other Evertonians. We might be complete strangers but there is an instant respect for the other's fantastic taste in football.
I'm yet to meet an Evertonian who can't go into in depth conversations about all things football. We are truely a class above.
No football fan worth a grain of salt wants their club to be a rich man's toy or faceless media giant. The perfect situation is to have someone like Bill that can put in around $20mill a year.
But thats fantasy I'm afraid its one or the other.